While having originally grumbled at the higher priced combo-discs (Where was my cheaper stand-alone version of Superman Returns!?!) I quickly realized how important the combo discs are. Since I already owned the SD version of SR, no big deal, however...

A couple weeks ago I went to purchase StarDust. After about 10 min. of internal debating, I ended up picking the SD version over the HD-DVD version. Why? Because I knew that my daughter would want to watch it in her room, or the SUV, or perhaps lend it to a friend... (I reaaaallly wanted the HD, but just didn't make sense)

Unless HD players come down drastically in cost and folks are willing to replace their DVD hardware, I just don't see people buying too many HD discs after the initial excitement factor...

I'm considering picking up a PS3, but if there are no possibilities of combo discs in the future, I think I may just pass on the whole HD disc phase.

Combo discs are great if you have kids or multiple DVD players around the house, and who doesn't have multiple DVD players these days...

I think Paramount truly missed the boat by not making Shrek III a combo.

I think Paramount truly missed the boat by not making Shrek III a combo.

+1

They are repeating that mistake with Bee Movie. Universal won't make that mistake with Veggie Tales. However, that won't be out until fall at the earliest.

This is why I always felt that Disney would have jumped on HD DVD long ago. Of course, I'm sure Sony's money was the main thing stopping them.

Still, I'm sure parents would go ape over a combo disc version of whatever given Disney kids movie..

new films that you dont already have in your collection makes perfect sense to get a combo to me. catalog titles i already have in SD i dont see a point in a combo. so for future films combo's could become very useful...

It's a double edged sword. "Flipper" discs are more prone to damage as both sides are functional (thus vulnerable) and they cost more--enough that many who don't want to be confined to their HD DVD player choose the SD release as a compromise. IF the price came down to within 2-3$ of the SD release (rather than the 5$ premium over non-combo HD discs) AND the studios made those titles single-inventory, THEN it might be attractive to the mainstream (the lower cost would obviate the more fragile nature of the discs). But I won't hold my breath.

My wife was sick tonight, laying upstairs in bed with the SD side of our combo version of Harry Potter: OOTP.

Combos were the right thing. They were used 100% incorrectly.

+1

They are repeating that mistake with Bee Movie. Universal won't make that mistake with Veggie Tales. However, that won't be out until fall at the earliest.

That's too bad.

I think that any children's movie on HD is at an automatic disadvantage compared to the SD version. The kids will get much more use out of a children's title than the adults would, and the kids are far more likely to be watching on SD DVD.

That probably means those HD adopters with families buy the SD DVD version of a kid’s title if there is no HD DVD combo version to be had.

I suppose Paramount/DW are probably hoping some people will buy both the HD and the SD discs where with a combo they would buy only one.

It might pad their bottom line ever so slightly in the short term, but such strategy really does nothing to help expand the HD market into the mainstream.

Combo's are the reason I went with HD DVD. Even if Blu is declared uber alles, even if sometime in the future I purchase a Blu Ray player, I will still purchase any kid movies on SD. Why? Because I can't play a Blu Ray in the van on those long trips to Grandma's house. Now a Disney Combo, that would be a no-brainer purchase. HD for the home theater, SD for the van/playroom. Disney really missed the boat. But I guess if they think we'll double dip for SD & HD...

While having originally grumbled at the higher priced combo-discs (Where was my cheaper stand-alone version of Superman Returns!?!) I quickly realized how important the combo discs are. Since I already owned the SD version of SR, this was a no-brainer, however...

A couple weeks ago I went to purchase StarDust. After about 10 min. of internal debating, I ended up picking the SD version over the HD-DVD version. Why? Because I knew that my daughter would want to watch it in her room, or the SUV, or perhaps lend it to a friend... (I reaaaallly wanted the HD, but just didn't make sense)

Unless HD players come down drastically in cost and folks are willing to replace their DVD hardware, I just don't see people buying too many HD discs after the initial excitement factor...

I'm considering picking up a PS3, but if there are no possibilities of combo discs in the future, I think I may just pass on the whole HD disc phase.

You made a big mistake. If you care about the best presentation of a movie you can possibly own and enjoy, HD is the way to go.

COMBOs are the biggest turn OFF factor for me. Because of their high unreliability and flimsy nature I was forced to import the titles from U.K or OZ. Remember the rest of the world hates COMBO.

COMBOs are the biggest turn OFF factor for me. Because of their high unreliability and flimsy nature I was forced to import the titles from U.K or OZ. Remember the rest of the world hates COMBO.

What exactly are you basing this "unreliability" on?

I own (only) 17 "combos" and have not had 1 problem with any of them.

I'm sure some people do/did have problems at one time or another, but sometimes I think people read about other people's problems and take that as fact.

Flimsy? not following that one, but OK.

I'm okay with studios releasing both a combo and non-combo of movies at the same time. Its when they release only non-combos that pisses me off. I have missed out on some great movie because they were only released as combo's. Although I am willing to make that sacrifice and wait until a non-combo is released.

What exactly are you basing this "unreliability" on?

I own (only) 17 "combos" and have not had 1 problem with any of them.

I'm sure some people do/did have problems at one time or another, but sometimes I think people read about other people's problems and take that as fact.

Flimsy? not following that one, but OK.

I imagine it would be prone to damage more . Too bad studios cant just include an SD movie version with the HD DVD. Probably wouldn't cost anymore than a dollar or so.

Price is the killer factor for HD in general. For the Enthusiast market, I can see how combo is a turn off, but for the mass market Combos has a definite advantage. It just need to drop in price within a $5 range of DVD. People don't mind paying $5 more than DVD, but not $5 more than HDM disc. Which means, the whole HDM market just need to drop in price

I imagine it would be prone to damage more . Too bad studios cant just include an SD movie version with the HD DVD. Probably wouldn't cost anymore than a dollar or so.

If they made a special edition, I would like to see them add a hard coating to that edition.

For those of you saying Shrek 3 and Disney movies would be great as combos, think about this -- would you want a 3-10 yr old getting his/her gooey hands on your 25-35 dollar disc? I doubt it. Most kids want to watch the same movie 20 times. They'll be watching in the personal dvd player most likely.. and who knows whats been in there. When you factor all these things in, it doesnt make sense to get a Combo disc. Now -- if you're still fine with them getting play-doh on your disc...

The reason why the kid is watching the movie in SD is because most people can't/won't buy their kids a high definition tv. When DVD came out, people already have 2-3 tvs in the house and all were able to take on a 40-50 dollar dvd player. Less HDTVs means less media sold... (niche market?)... This is what actually makes the combo attractive... watch the DVD in the car, or in the small tv in the bedroom... I just dont think the "kids" thing is the best example :) now comes the story of people who have a 5 yr old that's extremely careful with dvds.

I'm okay with studios releasing both a combo and non-combo of movies at the same time. Its when they release only non-combos that pisses me off. I have missed out on some great movie because they were only released as combo's. Although I am willing to make that sacrifice and wait until a non-combo is released.

Every time you post this, I always post in response "just import it".

We all know you have a massive hard-on for hating combos with the passion of a thousand suns but really this is enough.

Every thread that even remotely has a combo disc mentioned, you rush in and post the same manifesto on why you hate them. Every thread, same response, it gets old.

You made a big mistake. If you care about the best presentation of a movie you can possibly own and enjoy, HD is the way to go.

What a weird response. Of course I care, which is why I bought an HD-DVD player in the first place. Had there been a combo disc that offered the flexibility of play in not only all of our other rooms in the house, but in our family truckster as well, then that would've been a no-brainer. It's kind of nice to be able to lend discs to my less fortunate friends as well.

For those of you saying Shrek 3 and Disney movies would be great as combos, think about this -- would you want a 3-10 yr old getting his/her gooey hands on your 25-35 dollar disc? I doubt it. Most kids want to watch the same movie 20 times. They'll be watching in the personal dvd player most likely.. and who knows whats been in there. When you factor all these things in, it doesnt make sense to get a Combo disc. Now -- if you're still fine with them getting play-doh on your disc...

Ummm, you let your 3 year old handle your movies without supervision??

My 3 year old was tought how to handle a DVD. He can open the case, take the DVD out, hold it with the thumb and finger, open the DVD player, put it in the DVD player, and close the door using the button.

Why? Because while he wanted to be the "helper", there was no way I would let him TOUCH THE CASE of a movie without me right there next to him. And if I saw him for a second manhandle a disc, he would not be touching them again.

Considering the poor handling of discs by Children it's better to have HD DVD and the SD version separately however on a single case. Considering the current circumstances I would recommend the HD DVD studios to adopt this strategy and bring back the lost hopes. I don't think COMBO discs will sell well at this stage. The best option for purist is to wait for the non-combo release or import it from U.K or OZ.

Some adults need supervision when handling discs.

Some adults need supervision when handling discs.

First Michael's post about how 'if' his kid manhandled DVDs... makes me smile and then you go post what I was thinking. I'm such a little bitch when it comes to lending out DVDs to anyone, there's a play-doh kid in most people. A big play-doh kid. The horror.

So yeah, nothing wrong with combos except: price and lack of non-combo. This post is a repeat, too, but it's still true. And good call on making the combo releases separate discs at the same price. The way they're used would favor that approach (give SD to greasy small or big kid, keep HD). Bandai went that route on their BD releases in Japan, only they missed the point and made people pay for 2 releases. Just read the customer reviews on Amazon Japan if you want to know how they liked that idea. Let's just say even arrogant Bandai have conceded the point as of this month. No price premium you suckers, the SD is a feature of convenience on the HD release.

I imagine it would be prone to damage more . Too bad studios cant just include an SD movie version with the HD DVD. Probably wouldn't cost anymore than a dollar or so.
That was what I was thinking when all the combo "issues" started to surface. For the current price of combos, I could see them charging the same for this considering it might actually be cheaper.

First Michael's post about how 'if' his kid manhandled DVDs... makes me smile and then you go post what I was thinking. I'm such a little bitch when it comes to lending out DVDs to anyone, there's a play-doh kid in most people. A big play-doh kid. The horror.

So yeah, nothing wrong with combos except: price and lack of non-combo. This post is a repeat, too, but it's still true. And good call on making the combo releases separate discs at the same price. The way they're used would favor that approach (give SD to greasy small or big kid, keep HD). Bandai went that route on their BD releases in Japan, only they missed the point and made people pay for 2 releases. Just read the customer reviews on Amazon Japan if you want to know how they liked that idea. Let's just say even arrogant Bandai have conceded the point as of this month. No price premium you suckers, the SD is a feature of convenience on the HD release.

if you are so worried your kids are going to manhandle your hd dvd combo discs, you should just buy a program (like "dvd x copy", i think the name is if you can find it, but i believe the mpaa sued them into bankruptcy), some dvd-r's, and some dvd cases. make a perfect copy of your movie for your own personal use, which should be allowed (regardless of whatever the digital millenium copyright act says).

Love combos. I only have one Hddvd player, and if I get a movie that my wife does not like I can watch it on my computer and/or another TV.

As far as kids go. Mine are pretty good with handling the discs, but you could make a backup copy of the SD side for use in the car. This is 100% legal since you own the movie.

Love combos. I only have one Hddvd player, and if I get a movie that my wife does not like I can watch it on my computer and/or another TV.

As far as kids go. Mine are pretty good with handling the discs, but you could make a backup copy of the SD side for use in the car. This is 100% legal since you own the movie.

Actually according to the DMCA, it's not legal when the discs are CSS protected. Sorry.

My only issues with Warner's combos were the prices. At Fry's the SD DVD of We Are Marshall during its release week was $23, the Blu-Ray was $26 and the HD DVD was on sale for $28 regularly priced at $36? :eek: $3 more than the SD DVD is a no brainer. $13 more? :mad:

I love loaning combos to friends. Moreover, I like being able to play the SD DVD side on my laptop, my desktop and friends minivans. Harry Potter: Order of the Phoenix showed the selling power of combos when priced appropriately.

I totally agree. I never fully understood the hate towards combos. If the studios would release only combos (as has been suggested here before) they would have an instant base of HD-DVD media sales. Not to mention that from what I have read and heard HD-DVD is cheaper to reproduce than SD. Not sure why but that is what I have been told.

Anyhoo, BR (while I might eventually go purple) will not get the same install base if they don't offer combos. Think of all the portable DVD players, built-in car/SUV/Mini-Van SD installations around the country. These facts alone make it unreasonable to purchase and HDM only disks.

My .02 cents.

Every time you post this, I always post in response "just import it".

We all know you have a massive hard-on for hating combos with the passion of a thousand suns but really this is enough.

Every thread that even remotely has a combo disc mentioned, you rush in and post the same manifesto on why you hate them. Every thread, same response, it gets old.

agreed.

They are really handy too if you are going on a trip somewhere as well.

I usually bring a portable DVD player or use my laptop (17") for a movie night in the hotel.

Plus there are lot of people with built in Car DVD players that these would be good for. No reason you need HD on a 7-9" screen

It actually wouldn't be as much of a problem if there were an easy way to rip and convert it to an SD disk... but that is awhile away. (please note that I said easy... I know it is possible now, but it takes a bit of work)

Every time you post this, I always post in response "just import it".

We all know you have a massive hard-on for hating combos with the passion of a thousand suns but really this is enough.

Every thread that even remotely has a combo disc mentioned, you rush in and post the same manifesto on why you hate them. Every thread, same response, it gets old.

+1 You can pretty much guess what GamerGuyX's "contribution" to a thread about a new release will be if it's a combo. Very rarely anything about whether or not the movie is any good. It does get old. :rolleyes:

I don't think the OP makes the case for why the lack of a HD DVD combo disk releases would account for poor HD DVD sales in general. Afterall, Blu-ray has been winning without them.

I think a bigger turn off for many is that consumers are the designated casualties in a format war not of their making.

I think the combo needs to marketed to SD owners as a way to move into HD with no risk as opposed to HD owners as a way to use it in the minivan.

Minivan use is certainly valid (one reason I like combos), but the SD marked it much larger. Of course the twindisc would be the best of both worlds.

You made a big mistake. If you care about the best presentation of a movie you can possibly own and enjoy, HD is the way to go.

:rolleyes:

All SD releases should be replaced with combos or TL combo discs. Easiest, most reliable way to migrate to HD. Barring that, all Special release versions should have an HD and SD version of the movie.

Combo discs were marketed as being "future proof". What's really ironic about that tagline is that they are indeed future proof, because of the SD side!

I replaced a few of my HD DVDs with the Blu-ray versions (perhaps prematurely, perhaps in a panic), but the discs I absolutely won't divest myself of are my combo discs. I know at least the SD side will continue to work long after one or both of the new formats has disappeared.

if you are so worried your kids are going to manhandle your hd dvd combo discs, you should just buy a program (like "dvd x copy", i think the name is if you can find it, but i believe the mpaa sued them into bankruptcy), some dvd-r's, and some dvd cases. make a perfect copy of your movie for your own personal use, which should be allowed (regardless of whatever the digital millenium copyright act says).

You misunderstood, I don't even have kids. I was smiling at the image it evoked, particularly that of the 'big kids' manhandling discs too. The 'little bitch' comment was just me making fun of myself. You're right though, making copies is what I'd do if I had kids. Sorry if I worded it badly.

While having originally grumbled at the higher priced combo-discs (Where was my cheaper stand-alone version of Superman Returns!?!) I quickly realized how important the combo discs are. Since I already owned the SD version of SR, no big deal, however...

A couple weeks ago I went to purchase StarDust. After about 10 min. of internal debating, I ended up picking the SD version over the HD-DVD version. Why? Because I knew that my daughter would want to watch it in her room, or the SUV, or perhaps lend it to a friend... (I reaaaallly wanted the HD, but just didn't make sense)

Unless HD players come down drastically in cost and folks are willing to replace their DVD hardware, I just don't see people buying too many HD discs after the initial excitement factor...

I'm considering picking up a PS3, but if there are no possibilities of combo discs in the future, I think I may just pass on the whole HD disc phase.

I really like the HD-DVD combo discs concept and will choose them every time if available. They work just great! :cool:

I made the mistake of purchasing Shrek 3 in HD. It's great quality, but the kids would like to be able to play it elsewhere. Combos for new releases, priced about $3 above standard HD releases would have been the way to go, but that would create even another SKU.

For kids titles, combo only releases would seem to be better than HD only IMO. Twin Format would be the best of all worlds for new releases.

I think that any children's movie on HD is at an automatic disadvantage compared to the SD version.

No, combo discs were a bad idea. The fact that they didn't employ scratch resistant surfaces made them useless since kids mis-handle discs. One could buy the SD version for their kids on release day for $13.88 at WalMart and pick up the HD-DVD version for themselves ($25?) That would be about $39, about the same price as the combo disc.

I paid $29.99 for "Stardust" after watching it on SD. I would not have picked it up for $39.99. That's a tankful of gas. I want "Shooter" but am not willing to pay $29.99 for it after watching it on SD. I want "Man On Fire" but refuse to pay $27.95 for it. If I am hesitant to pay over $20 for any HD-DVD or BD, why would I want to pay $30 to $40???

There is absolutely no way to not get at least partial finger prints on a combo disc. Just as I refuse to buy combo discs, I also now refuse to buy double sided discs. One has to look closely at what is what. One puts it in one way and then has to remove it to flip it over. No thanks. I don't think that I should have to wear white gloves to insert and remove a disc. If that is the case then they might as well sell them in their own caddies so that one never has to touch them. You also wouldn't need to fear breaking them taking them out of the case and the art work can be part of the caddy package, like 8 track tapes were. But once you went to a caddy system all other players won't play them. Therefore it is impractical. But we got along with floppies without any problem. And that is what I see as a possible use for HD-DVD - floppies containing 2.5" DVDs but the higher density used to encode at SD rates.

No, combo discs were a bad idea. The fact that they didn't employ scratch resistant surfaces made them useless since kids mis-handle discs. One could buy the SD version for their kids on release day for $13.88 at WalMart and pick up the HD-DVD version for themselves ($25?) That would be about $39, about the same price as the combo disc.

I paid $29.99 for "Stardust" after watching it on SD. I would not have picked it up for $39.99. That's a tankful of gas. I want "Shooter" but am not willing to pay $29.99 for it after watching it on SD. I want "Man On Fire" but refuse to pay $27.95 for it. If I am hesitant to pay over $20 for any HD-DVD or BD, why would I want to pay $30 to $40???

There is absolutely no way to not get at least partial finger prints on a combo disc. Just as I refuse to buy combo discs, I also now refuse to buy double sided discs. One has to look closely at what is what. One puts it in one way and then has to remove it to flip it over. No thanks. I don't think that I should have to wear white gloves to insert and remove a disc. If that is the case then they might as well sell them in their own caddies so that one never has to touch them. You also wouldn't need to fear breaking them taking them out of the case and the art work can be part of the caddy package, like 8 track tapes were. But once you went to a caddy system all other players won't play them. Therefore it is impractical. But we got along with floppies without any problem. And that is what I see as a possible use for HD-DVD - floppies containing 2.5" DVDs but the higher density used to encode at SD rates.

You wouldn't have so much problem if you'd keep your children away from knives. :D

WB NEVER "had it right w/combo discs".

Not only did WB fub up w/high pricing & releasing catalog titles (of which, many already owned the title in SD); they also screwed up w/dual sided.
Buyers didn't want to pay more, collectors did not want to pay again for SD, & J6P wants artwork. They also never released a combo only title, Therefore, WB was releasing three titles of each release (SD, BD, & HD DVD).

Paramount "had it right"; w/ST:TOS S1 (re-mastered).
One release and done!

I don't think the OP makes the case for why the lack of a HD DVD combo disk releases would account for poor HD DVD sales in general. Afterall, Blu-ray has been winning without them.

I think a bigger turn off for many is that consumers are the designated casualties in a format war not of their making.

Nope, I'm talking HD disc SALES in general, Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.


WB NEVER "had it right w/combo discs".

Not only did WB fub up w/high pricing & releasing catalog titles (of which, many already owned the title in SD); they also screwed up w/dual sided.
Buyers didn't want to pay more, collectors did not want to pay again for SD, & J6P wants artwork. They also never released a combo only title, Therefore, WB was releasing three titles of each release (SD, BD, & HD DVD).

Paramount "had it right"; w/ST:TOS S1 (re-mastered).
One release and done!

I guess I should clarify that they "had" the right idea, not necessarily the implemenation w/higher price point. Yes, they should've only release combo discs (as all studios should be doing), or as some have said, include the SD version as well, and IMO with the tiny cost of pressing discs, included either for no additional charge.

Every time you post this, I always post in response "just import it".

We all know you have a massive hard-on for hating combos with the passion of a thousand suns but really this is enough.

Every thread that even remotely has a combo disc mentioned, you rush in and post the same manifesto on why you hate them. Every thread, same response, it gets old.

+Infinity

No, combo discs were a bad idea. The fact that they didn't employ scratch resistant surfaces made them useless since kids mis-handle discs. One could buy the SD version for their kids on release day for $13.88 at WalMart and pick up the HD-DVD version for themselves ($25?) That would be about $39, about the same price as the combo disc.

I paid $29.99 for "Stardust" after watching it on SD. I would not have picked it up for $39.99. That's a tankful of gas. I want "Shooter" but am not willing to pay $29.99 for it after watching it on SD. I want "Man On Fire" but refuse to pay $27.95 for it. If I am hesitant to pay over $20 for any HD-DVD or BD, why would I want to pay $30 to $40???

There is absolutely no way to not get at least partial finger prints on a combo disc. Just as I refuse to buy combo discs, I also now refuse to buy double sided discs. One has to look closely at what is what. One puts it in one way and then has to remove it to flip it over. No thanks. I don't think that I should have to wear white gloves to insert and remove a disc. If that is the case then they might as well sell them in their own caddies so that one never has to touch them. You also wouldn't need to fear breaking them taking them out of the case and the art work can be part of the caddy package, like 8 track tapes were. But once you went to a caddy system all other players won't play them. Therefore it is impractical. But we got along with floppies without any problem. And that is what I see as a possible use for HD-DVD - floppies containing 2.5" DVDs but the higher density used to encode at SD rates.

I think you are being a little bit critical here. I have over 400 DVDs with no scratch resistant coating and have never used white gloves or have been overly gentle with them. I have dropped them, them have rolled across the floor. I have had 1 stop working.

I haven't had any problems with combo disks and wish most hd dvds were. My friends and family wanted to borrow transformers, but it wasn't a combo.

No, combo discs were a bad idea. The fact that they didn't employ scratch resistant surfaces made them useless since kids mis-handle discs. One could buy the SD version for their kids on release day for $13.88 at WalMart and pick up the HD-DVD version for themselves ($25?) That would be about $39, about the same price as the combo disc.

I paid $29.99 for "Stardust" after watching it on SD. I would not have picked it up for $39.99. That's a tankful of gas. I want "Shooter" but am not willing to pay $29.99 for it after watching it on SD. I want "Man On Fire" but refuse to pay $27.95 for it. If I am hesitant to pay over $20 for any HD-DVD or BD, why would I want to pay $30 to $40???

There is absolutely no way to not get at least partial finger prints on a combo disc. Just as I refuse to buy combo discs, I also now refuse to buy double sided discs. One has to look closely at what is what. One puts it in one way and then has to remove it to flip it over. No thanks. I don't think that I should have to wear white gloves to insert and remove a disc. If that is the case then they might as well sell them in their own caddies so that one never has to touch them. You also wouldn't need to fear breaking them taking them out of the case and the art work can be part of the caddy package, like 8 track tapes were. But once you went to a caddy system all other players won't play them. Therefore it is impractical. But we got along with floppies without any problem. And that is what I see as a possible use for HD-DVD - floppies containing 2.5" DVDs but the higher density used to encode at SD rates.

I think you are over exaggerating the lack of use of a Combo Disc. Combo Disc provides great value when priced right, easy transition for DVD owners, and compatibilty for the hundreds of millions of DVD players that is out on the market.

You don't have to like it, but one thing is for certain, J6P don't care for artwork, and or the lack of protective coating. Those that do let their kids play with their Combo disc will also have regular DVD disc that are ruin. So the situation is really no better or worst.

COMBOs are the biggest turn OFF factor for me. Because of their high unreliability and flimsy nature I was forced to import the titles from U.K or OZ. Remember the rest of the world hates COMBO.

Yes and I can count the annual number of important film releases from the rest of the world on one hand. The rest of the world does not have the same habits that we Americans have; that's why Japanese car makers balked at the US DOT when they said they had to replace faulty seat belts. Honda could not understand why anyone would eat in their car or why food particles could end up in a seat belt enclosure, but to any American parent it makes total sense. By the same token I'm sure many on the other side of the pond don't see a need for Combo disks, but if they had 5 DVD players in their home ( 1 in son's room, 1 in daughter's room, 1 in bedroom, 1 in family room and 1 in the living room), a portable DVD player, a DVD Player in the car and a computer at the office they watch DVDs on, they would see the benefit of having Combo Format media.

I have always loved my Combos; for kids films they get a workout in both of the kids rooms and on the portable DVD player. For D&D releases they get used by non-early adopter friends that borrow them (instead of renting) and on the PC at the office.

TwinDisc (34GB/4.7GB) is the ultimate Blu-ray killer.

People (the common men) don't 'like' combos:

1. because there is no disc art to identify the disc - seriously when you watch movies the lights are OFF - you can't read the 5 point text curved around the spindle hole of a disc in the dark!

2. they are more prone to scratches and fingerprints - especially if you have not been taught the correct way to hold disc (99.99% of the general public dont know how to look after discs). This is the biggest advantage Blu-ray has going for it - the discs are hard to damage.


TwinDisc avoids these two perceived drawbacks, is far easier to use, whilst achieving exactly the same goals of the Combo.

I guess I should clarify that they "had" the right idea, not necessarily the implementation w/higher price point. Yes, they should've only release combo discs (as all studios should be doing), or as some have said, include the SD version as well, and IMO with the tiny cost of pressing discs, included either for no additional charge.
WB DID "have it right" w/dual disc (BD & HD DVD).
However, you immediately saw a ugly backlash against that software format; one that would have WB in HD DVD still & in the future. One HD release (SKU) & one SD release (SKU) per title; WB could have continued support with that option.
Wasn't there even a 'super' disc proposed by someone; SD, BD, & HD DVD all on one disc?

No, combo discs were a bad idea. The fact that they didn't employ scratch resistant surfaces made them useless since kids mis-handle discs. One could buy the SD version for their kids on release day for $13.88 at WalMart and pick up the HD-DVD version for themselves ($25?) That would be about $39, about the same price as the combo disc.

I paid $29.99 for "Stardust" after watching it on SD. I would not have picked it up for $39.99. That's a tankful of gas. I want "Shooter" but am not willing to pay $29.99 for it after watching it on SD. I want "Man On Fire" but refuse to pay $27.95 for it. If I am hesitant to pay over $20 for any HD-DVD or BD, why would I want to pay $30 to $40???

There is absolutely no way to not get at least partial finger prints on a combo disc. Just as I refuse to buy combo discs, I also now refuse to buy double sided discs. One has to look closely at what is what. One puts it in one way and then has to remove it to flip it over. No thanks. I don't think that I should have to wear white gloves to insert and remove a disc. If that is the case then they might as well sell them in their own caddies so that one never has to touch them. You also wouldn't need to fear breaking them taking them out of the case and the art work can be part of the caddy package, like 8 track tapes were. But once you went to a caddy system all other players won't play them. Therefore it is impractical. But we got along with floppies without any problem. And that is what I see as a possible use for HD-DVD - floppies containing 2.5" DVDs but the higher density used to encode at SD rates.


No they are a great idea, and if the BDA could produce them, they would.

They are no more prone to damage than an SD DVD, and kids have been playing those things just fine for years.. I should know.

The problem with pressing both the HD and SD version on the single disc for studios is one thing. The date of conclusion. I can see where the studios want to avoid the extra cost of indefinite production of doing this. So here's the key to the whole mix. (If I understand correctly Toshiba owns the rights to the DVD license) TOSHIBA / supportive studios need to put an end date to SD DVD production. Similar to what is being done to analog TVs right now. And one more thing, the HDA needs to require a start date for ALL SD DVD's to start including a HD layer also.

First TOSHIBA and the DVD association could announce that on DEC 31 2009 (date for example) they will discontinue SD DVD production, and no longer license companies to continue using the format. Remember HD DVD was supposed to be the successor to SD DVD.(Keeping in mind the BDA and Sony do not have the right to the DVD title and cannot put it on the Blu disc) And announce that beginning Jan 1 2010 all DVDS will be HD DVD's only. This will give the public a warning of the upcomiing change. With the price of HD DVD players coming down the average consumer will be able to pick up a player by that date no problem. New players will be able to play ALL of your SD titles, but Old players will NOT be able to play the new format. This info can be put on the leader of all DVD releases. Plus other Player manufactures can fully get behind the date, further increasing the player selection, and generating lower player prices.

Second. Tosh / SDA needs to put a prior date on when all current studios MUST include a HD layer on all newly pressed discs, (say 10/15/2008)or the license to produce SD Discs will be cancelled (or not renewed). Major studios could be given a earlier date, and Indies could be given a later date in order to gear up. This will also help promote player sales, because all new discs will include the HD layer. This will also resolve the "confusion" that the consumer seems to be having. Specific times and dates.

I think the consumer will see this as normal, and will accept that this is the next generation of DVD technology. Also it would trump Blu at the SD level. Studios will be forced to make a decision. Either Soley support BLU and cancel all new SD production(not gonna happen), or comply and bring the consumer to the next generation of video entertainment. Blu movie will then be pushed to a niche format, just like PSP movies. Game, set, match.

Thoughts??? Or am I missing something?

^^ You do realize that the members of the BDA are also members of the DVD forum. I think they'd have some choice words about your plan.

^^ You do realize that the members of the BDA are also members of the DVD forum. I think they'd have some choice words about your plan.

Thanks, I figured that was true, but then why don't they have enough choice words to say to be able to press a combo disc on BR? It's my understanding that they CANNOT.

The problem with pressing both the HD and SD version on the single disc for studios is one thing. The date of conclusion. I can see where the studios want to avoid the extra cost of indefinite production of doing this. So here's the key to the whole mix. (If I understand correctly Toshiba owns the rights to the DVD license) TOSHIBA / supportive studios need to put an end date to SD DVD production. Similar to what is being done to analog TVs right now. And one more thing, the HDA needs to require a start date for ALL SD DVD's to start including a HD layer also.

First TOSHIBA and the DVD association could announce that on DEC 31 2009 (date for example) they will discontinue SD DVD production, and no longer license companies to continue using the format. Remember HD DVD was supposed to be the successor to SD DVD.(Keeping in mind the BDA and Sony do not have the right to the DVD title and cannot put it on the Blu disc) And announce that beginning Jan 1 2010 all DVDS will be HD DVD's only. This will give the public a warning of the upcomiing change. With the price of HD DVD players coming down the average consumer will be able to pick up a player by that date no problem. New players will be able to play ALL of your SD titles, but Old players will NOT be able to play the new format. This info can be put on the leader of all DVD releases. Plus other Player manufactures can fully get behind the date, further increasing the player selection, and generating lower player prices.

Second. Tosh / SDA needs to put a prior date on when all current studios MUST include a HD layer on all newly pressed discs, (say 10/15/2008)or the license to produce SD Discs will be cancelled (or not renewed). Major studios could be given a earlier date, and Indies could be given a later date in order to gear up. This will also help promote player sales, because all new discs will include the HD layer. This will also resolve the "confusion" that the consumer seems to be having. Specific times and dates.

I think the consumer will see this as normal, and will accept that this is the next generation of DVD technology. Also it would trump Blu at the SD level. Studios will be forced to make a decision. Either Soley support BLU and cancel all new SD production(not gonna happen), or comply and bring the consumer to the next generation of video entertainment. Blu movie will then be pushed to a niche format, just like PSP movies. Game, set, match.

Thoughts??? Or am I missing something?

Man you make way too much sense.

That is one way to take the power away from studios.

It would speed up the hdm adoption dramatically.

^^ You do realize that the members of the BDA are also members of the DVD forum. I think they'd have some choice words about your plan.

They don't really have much of a voice right now and toshiba has the most important vote. Hence, why they created the BDA.

They don't really have much of a voice right now and toshiba has the most important vote. Hence, why they created the BDA.

And none of them would even remotely consider even slightly risking SD production at this point! IMO, At this point in time, HD needs to entirely forget about the BDA, (it's really not going anywhere as long as HD has the support of UNI, PARA and DW.) and they need to put a full frontal assault on SD DVD. It's also natural advertising. If those 3 studios got behind a marketing theme like that, you would see the other studios following suit very shortly. The funny part is, in the mean time, the combo discs will still play on PS3s:D Blu discs still don't play on ANY SD player, or HD player!! Niche I say!:p

The instant install base would also include rentals for Blockbuster, Nexflix, etc. That's because all new releases for rent would automatically have HD DVD on the flipside whether they use it or not. So Blockbuster would have to carry HD DVD by default if they wanted say "I Am Legend" to rent to the public. That would negate the BB-BR deal. Once BlockBuster see's how they save rental space by being able to rent SD and HD DVD on a single shelf would be huge. Imagine Best Buy being to sell both on 1 shelf. Imagine the consumer going to buy "The Bee Movie" SD and because it's a combo disc only release, it's surrounded by HD DVD's. That is instant and no cost marketing on HD DVD's side. If not combo's then at least the Twindisc with HD DVD and SD on a single side.

Now Imagine this, "I Am Legend" is released as a combo only, no standalone SD Disc, when people buy it and stick it in there player, the opening trailer shows advantages of getting a HD DVD player. People on the fence will say, hey, I already have the HD DVD disc on the other side, so might as well buy a HD DVD. We all know how many SD DVD's are sold on opening week, about 20 million. If just 1% of the 20 million buy a HD DVD after viewing the movie trailer, that would be 200,000 HD DVD sold a week, but get this, that would mean that 20 Million SD/HD DVD's were sold in 1 week. I like the sound of that, 20 Million HD DVD's sold in 1 week. HD DVD would be unstoppable then, BR would have no answer to that.

They don't have many options now, so HD DVD might as well try and release a Combo only movie on one of the blockbuster movies and see what happens. See how many players are sold. Worst thing that happens, is that you get 20 Million HD DVD's out there. Of course you must produce enough for sale.

The instant install base would also include rentals for Blockbuster, Nexflix, etc. That's because all new releases for rent would automatically have HD DVD on the flipside whether they use it or not. So Blockbuster would have to carry HD DVD by default if they wanted say "I Am Legend" to rent to the public. That would negate the BB-BR deal. Once BlockBuster see's how they save rental space by being able to rent SD and HD DVD on a single shelf would be huge. Imagine Best Buy being to sell both on 1 shelf. Imagine the consumer going to buy "The Bee Movie" SD and because it's a combo disc only release, it's surrounded by HD DVD's. That is instant and no cost marketing on HD DVD's side. If not combo's then at least the Twindisc with HD DVD and SD on a single side.

Now Imagine this, "I Am Legend" is released as a combo only, no standalone SD Disc, when people buy it and stick it in there player, the opening trailer shows advantages of getting a HD DVD player. People on the fence will say, hey, I already have the HD DVD disc on the other side, so might as well buy a HD DVD. We all know how many SD DVD's are sold on opening week, about 20 million. If just 1% of the 20 million buy a HD DVD after viewing the movie trailer, that would be 200,000 HD DVD sold a week. HD DVD would be unstoppable then, BR would have no answer to that.

Yes, and Toshiba could pick up the extra cost and release the combo disc at normal first week SD prices. After all they just saved half bill by not courting Warner. They would only need to do it once, on one major release. And/Or hell for that matter put a $40 rebate with the disc redeemable with the purchase of a HD DVD player, and make the disc free.

I'm a strong HD DVD supporter and marketing is not HD DVD's forte'. Having said that...HD DVD would kick BD azz if that was inplemented. BTW I made the same suggestion months ago when Blockbuster stated BR excusivity. Maybe just maybe they have the balls to try it now otherwise they should just pack it in.

The great thing about Twin and Combo format is that when you lend the disc out to a friend, it is kinda like word of mouth free advertising. As soon as they see a combo or twin disc, they will see HD DVD on it and it will drive up public perception that the format is the way to go.

It is completely obvious that this is the best course of action for Toshiba. Toshiba needs to make all movie release standard on either Twin or Combo format now at a price point that is competitive to SD DVD, 19.99 and 24.99 respectively. At the same time, hamper the release of SD DVD. Yes, it is dirty tactics, but Sony will not hesitate to use that tactic given the chance. TL51 seems to have been confirmed, release that as a twin format with a good price and all the negative talk about HD DVD will start to melt away. But they need to do this now and show the public that they are going to do this. They need to figure out how to make this work. Otherwise, I have to say that HD DVD deserves to be niche.

Now, how to bubble this up to Toshiba!?! I just don't see how this wouldn't work...

The great thing about Twin and Combo format is that when you lend the disc out to a friend, it is kinda like word of mouth free advertising. As soon as they see a combo or twin disc, they will see HD DVD on it and it will drive up public perception that the format is the way to go.

It is completely obvious that this is the best course of action for Toshiba. Toshiba needs to make all movie release standard on either Twin or Combo format now at a price point that is competitive to SD DVD, 19.99 and 24.99 respectively. At the same time, hamper the release of SD DVD. Yes, it is dirty tactics, but Sony will not hesitate to use that tactic given the chance. TL51 seems to have been confirmed, release that as a twin format with a good price and all the negative talk about HD DVD will start to melt away. But they need to do this now and show the public that they are going to do this. They need to figure out how to make this work. Otherwise, I have to say that HD DVD deserves to be niche.

Toshiba and HD DVD does not have the luxury of waiting until the twin disc is ready. Therefore they should release combos along with commercials explaining the many benefits of having this format.

Toshiba and HD DVD does not have the luxury of waiting until the twin disc is ready. Therefore they should release combos along with commercials explaining the many benefits of having this format.
Bandai Visual is releasing the Freedom series in Twin format (HD15/DVD5) without any problems reported, they just announce Freedom 4 and 5 to be released in few months.

Some movies will fit in DVD5 and HD15, many wont (specially in HD15 at full 1080p), that's why they are pushing TL Twin (DVD5 and HD30) but that still far at least a few months. But if they use 720p most movies will fit in HD15, they will sell easily as special edition DVD with 720p HD DVD version as one of the extras.

Now to figure out if Toshiba is going to make a move towards this. Anybody have any contacts at Toshiba? Maybe an insider can shed some light on the situation?

Me and my friends have been talking about this since last year.
HDDVD failed to market their product at all. Not a single person i talk to now realizes the benefits HD had over blu from a consumers point of view. Toshiba and the studios did a horrible job of informing consumers. Blu did a great job convincing everyone that "THEY" were the only real next gen format.

Every HDDVD that came out should have been a combo till the twin was ready.
As well they should have all be sold at a loss to keep the price almost identical to the SD cost would have been. As well they should have only released the one version like Paramount did with startrek. Seriously every one should have been in the dvd isle with the new red packaging. As people buy the dvd version they're building their HDDVD library without knowing it.

Every Disk should have had an un-skipable commercial at the beginning explaining why the users Brand New DVD has HDDVD on the other side. Then show Dad watching HDDVD Movie on 60inch screen mom walks by says hey kids want to watch that on the way to grandma's.
Pan to the dad ejecting disk walking to car flipping it and sticking it in the vans dvd player and the kids start watching the same movie but in SD.
THEN IN BOLD LETTERS "only HDDVD logo disks are future proof play in all your Dvd players as well as 1080p In your HOMETHEATER. Bluray forces you to buy 2 copies of every movie..why would you do that?
End commercial.

Twin becomes standard and transision to this format that doesn't even require flipping Win war,faster transition of consumers since they realise that the last year of movies they bought are already HD they just need the player and better tv.

@bloodydrake, very good ideas, too bad they didn't do it. If they keep the studios for the year they should try it. Hey, Toshiba need to do more than just cut the price for the players, I don't think they will give up, HD DVD started on April 2006, less than 2 years ago and they are betting on a technology for the next 15 years or so.

I think certain movies would do well in combo format and some don't belong in combo format at all.If i had only one choice of a movie such as "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" which had 3 distinct versions(those being the standard combo disc release,the non-combo single disc release in the boxed set, and the double disc UK edition that contained all the extra material in 1080p,and the extra documentary missing from the US version)i would have easily chosen the UK edition(i own the boxed st edition and the UK edition).When it comes to upcoming movies like 'Beowulf" and "I Am Legend", i'd PREFER they be non-combo and if need be, multiple disc/layer to be able to include all the features one would expect from those releases(True HD audio,IME,etc.,even though "I Am Legend will unfortunately be a comno disc, thus limiting what Warner includes unless through some miracle it's the first use of a 51gb combo,lol!)).Movies such as "Bee Movie" which are very family friendly, make ALOT more sense to be combo releases for the reasons stated in the above posts alone and then some.The again, i don't anticipate many even many combo discs being allowed to leave the house.HD-DVDs as well all know, whether combo or not require alot more special care when handling them, than standard dvds do.

All kind of pointless now anyway, isn't it. You take a medium that already has a ridiculous HD premium (using just the OP's example, you can pick up Stardust right now for $17.99 in SD, in HD it's $27.99) and tack another charge on it for the privilege of being able to flip it over and play it in regular DVD players. $34-39 is common even now for Combo disks. That is just stupid expensive. At that price most people will (and have been) just go for the SD version if they need to use it in more than one location.

If you really want to have HD but also an SD version to take along in the minivan, then pony up a few extra bucks and just buy the SD too. Don't make the rest of us spend a premium for the title.

The HD camp needs to forget about the BDA altogether. They should immediately start marketing HD DVD for your HD TV. A TV commercial would be a great place to do that. Many Slogans such as "HD DVD the next generation of the HD experience" or "HD DVD brings your HD TV to Life." could be very affectively used. People would easily see the association of the 2.

Wether it's true or not, Tosh could easily begin to market it's format as Serious HD movies for Serious HD enthusiast. Thus indirectly saying Blu movies are for gamers without saying it in so many words. The sheer number of PS3 being used to show BLU movies would be guilt by association. This is just marketing (so all you blu fans don't start screaming)

The sheer fact that Blu has moved out ahead, clearly opens the door for Tosh to start adverising HD DVD as the Next/New generation of HD. Indirectly saying that Blu is the Old format. Once again it's just marketing perception.

Market HD DVD showing the difference between SD DVD and HD DVD. Once again... Forget about BLU. And this can be done at so many levels, TV advertising, radio commercials (advertise the sound differences), as SD DVD leaders before the film starts, and so on. Also Dreamworks could include a full HD movie with xbox360 games like shrek 3, and games such as that. Does any one know if a HD movie and a 360 game could be pressed into a TL disc?

Universal already came out and applauded Tosh for their new advertising campaign. I just can't wait to see it. Is it going to be a super bowl commercial blitz?

If HDDVD goes directly after SD this will become a entirely different war altogether.

You made a big mistake. If you care about the best presentation of a movie you can possibly own and enjoy, HD is the way to go.

And thats where you made a Big mistake! I do care but guess what! My kids dont give a rats ass about HD or SD so long as it plays! I agree with you about HD being the only way to go but I think Kids movies should be mandatory on a combo disk for common sense reasons! I personally think Disney would have made A LOT more money if they were with HD DVD and adopted the combo format as a standard!

For those of you saying Shrek 3 and Disney movies would be great as combos, think about this -- would you want a 3-10 yr old getting his/her gooey hands on your 25-35 dollar disc? I doubt it. Most kids want to watch the same movie 20 times. They'll be watching in the personal dvd player most likely.. and who knows whats been in there. When you factor all these things in, it doesnt make sense to get a Combo disc. Now -- if you're still fine with them getting play-doh on your disc...

The reason why the kid is watching the movie in SD is because most people can't/won't buy their kids a high definition tv. When DVD came out, people already have 2-3 tvs in the house and all were able to take on a 40-50 dollar dvd player. Less HDTVs means less media sold... (niche market?)... This is what actually makes the combo attractive... watch the DVD in the car, or in the small tv in the bedroom... I just dont think the "kids" thing is the best example :) now comes the story of people who have a 5 yr old that's extremely careful with dvds.

Not to enter into forbidden topics on this board, if there were a SD layer or side, there are easy and probably legal under fair use ways to keep your kids from wrecking the disc. I already copy discs keeping the original safe after finding my youngest and his cousin playing house hockey with a disc a couple of years ago.

I don't like flippers because I have a hard time finding discs in the binder I store them in but a triple layer combo would do the trick.

All kind of pointless now anyway, isn't it. You take a medium that already has a ridiculous HD premium (using just the OP's example, you can pick up Stardust right now for $17.99 in SD, in HD it's $27.99) and tack another charge on it for the privilege of being able to flip it over and play it in regular DVD players. $34-39 is common even now for Combo disks. That is just stupid expensive. At that price most people will (and have been) just go for the SD version if they need to use it in more than one location.

If you really want to have HD but also an SD version to take along in the minivan, then pony up a few extra bucks and just buy the SD too. Don't make the rest of us spend a premium for the title.

Agreed, however, there have been many great ideas thrown around here, one of which is to NOT charge extra for the SD content, either flip or extra disc, but DO only release combo discs to get HD-DVD into homes.

They are no more prone to damage than an SD DVD, and kids have been playing those things just fine for years.. I should know.

I must be the only one who rents movies and finds jelly stains, candy stains, greasy fingerprints (probably from pizza) along with the usual many scratches. Some people are still putting PS2 burns on discs.

The fact that you equate the damage possible to HD-DVD as being equal to SD should automatically ring warning bells in your heads. I can guarantee that some combo disc will find its way under a car seat, will find its way under the sofa, will fall and roll either onto a carpet or a wood floor, will not be put in its right case and will be stacked naked unto three or four other naked discs, allowed to collect dust and rubbed against each other.

Yes, "your" kids may be careful with "your" possessions, but from what I see of the SDs rented not everyone is careful.

Btw, ever hear of anyone trying to insert a tape into their player, only to find a jelly donut stuffed inside?

Next time you're at a friend's house, take out 10 discs at random and inspect the surfaces. I bet you most will be severly scratched. Kids love putting naked discs on the floor as they quickly tire of a movie and decide to put another one in.

I still say that kids' movies should be released on caddies. The little #@*^$%*s. 'They left the movies in the car and now its melted.' Oh, little Johnny dropped the movie in the rain... You know it's happened. If you can drop a CD (and you know you have at least once in your life) what makes you think that a kid can't drop a DVD?

Sorry, but I don't trust the little $&#*#$s. :D I work in a high school and see the damage that they do to computers (bubble gum wrappers in floppy drives, gummy stickerss in CD or DVD drives, quarters in power supplies, broken buttons, pushed in buttons, key scratches on monitors, ripping off the XP stickers, removing the serial number stickers, breaking keyboard pins, removing mouse balls (old days), jamming drive bay trays so that they go off the tracks, ... ) And these are high schoolers!

You give kids too much credit. They will find a way to damage BRs, so HD-DVD combos don't stand a chance in their hands.

<Edit>
Note to combo manufacturers - please make one side of the disc clear/silver and the other red. When we see the red side up we will know that it's the HD-DVD side that will be playing. Thank you.

I must be the only one who rents movies and finds jelly stains, candy stains, greasy fingerprints (probably from pizza) along with the usual many scratches. Some people are still putting PS2 burns on discs.



I have never seen any of that on rental discs. Been using Netflix, BB, and Hollywood Video for years and years. Never even had a disc that didn't play perfectly, SD or HD DVD.

Sorry, but I don't trust the little $&#*#$s. :D I work in a high school and see the damage that they do to computers (bubble gum wrappers in floppy drives, gummy stickerss in CD or DVD drives, quarters in power supplies, broken buttons, pushed in buttons, key scratches on monitors, ripping off the XP stickers, removing the serial number stickers, breaking keyboard pins, removing mouse balls (old days), jamming drive bay trays so that they go off the tracks, ... ) And these are high schoolers!

You give kids too much credit. They will find a way to damage BRs, so HD-DVD combos don't stand a chance in their hands.


It's different when you're talking about your own kids. My girls are 8 and 11, and they have been handling DVDs for quite some time. Of the hundred or so they have and have played, only one has ever been damaged to the point that it wouldn't play right.

These things are not that fragile. Fingerprints mean nothing, and I've not seen a scuff that caused failure either. With the combos, I just point out to them that the disc has content on each side, and that they should be a little careful with it. No stress. They also have some flipper SD discs with full and widescreen, and other than often playing the fullscreen version on the widescreen TV, there have been no problems.

I vote for combos, but I understand why you might not want them. It would be great if they would offer both, but having another SKU for something that doesn't sell much at all doesn't seem to make sense.

<Edit>
Note to combo manufacturers - please make one side of the disc clear/silver and the other red. When we see the red side up we will know that it's the HD-DVD side that will be playing. Thank you.
They can put "hub labels" that will be easier to read, or just put one red hub label to show the top side for HD DVD playing.

First TOSHIBA and the DVD association could announce that on DEC 31 2009 (date for example) they will discontinue SD DVD production, and no longer license companies to continue using the format. Remember HD DVD was supposed to be the successor to SD DVD.(Keeping in mind the BDA and Sony do not have the right to the DVD title and cannot put it on the Blu disc) And announce that beginning Jan 1 2010 all DVDS will be HD DVD's only. This will give the public a warning of the upcoming change. With the price of HD DVD players coming down the average consumer will be able to pick up a player by that date no problem. New players will be able to play ALL of your SD titles, but Old players will NOT be able to play the new format. This info can be put on the leader of all DVD releases. Plus other Player manufactures can fully get behind the date, further increasing the player selection, and generating lower player prices.

Second. Tosh / SDA needs to put a prior date on when all current studios MUST include a HD layer on all newly pressed discs, (say 10/15/2008)or the license to produce SD Discs will be canceled (or not renewed). Major studios could be given a earlier date, and Indies could be given a later date in order to gear up. This will also help promote player sales, because all new discs will include the HD layer. This will also resolve the "confusion" that the consumer seems to be having. Specific times and dates.

I think the consumer will see this as normal, and will accept that this is the next generation of DVD technology. Also it would trump Blu at the SD level. Studios will be forced to make a decision. Either Soley support BLU and cancel all new SD production(not gonna happen), or comply and bring the consumer to the next generation of video entertainment. Blu movie will then be pushed to a niche format, just like PSP movies. Game, set, match.

Thoughts??? Or am I missing something?

You can't be serious? Toshiba would lose billions of dollars and probably go out of business. That's the worst idea I've ever heard. People would be furious and probably stop buying movies all together. There are millions upon millions of people who can't afford an HD DVD player and would be screwed entirely. All the automakers who put DVDs in cars would be screwed, all the nav systems that use DVDs, etc... The backlash would be massive and Toshiba would be vilified in the media and public in general. Not to mention the gov't would nail them for anti-trust violations.

You can't be serious? Toshiba would lose billions of dollars and probably go out of business. That's the worst idea I've ever heard. People would be furious and probably stop buying movies all together. There are millions upon millions of people who can't afford an HD DVD player and would be screwed entirely. All the automakers who put DVDs in cars would be screwed, all the nav systems that use DVDs, etc... The backlash would be massive and Toshiba would be vilified in the media and public in general. Not to mention the gov't would nail them for anti-trust violations.

WOW seem to have touched a nerve here. I'll tell you why your wrong. Simply. How many software programs can you buy for Windows 95 anymore??? How bout Windows 98???? Not long and you not going to be able to buy progams for XP. There's very little or no difference at all. The government wouldn't even touch them, anymore than they are going to go after BDA for monopolizing HD or vise versa.

Oh and by the way, how many car manufacturers screamed when 8 track was phased out. They don't care.. that argument is rediculous. They will adverise the fact that their new cars come WITH HDDVD players, and the New HDDVD player will still play all of your SD DVDs. They could care less about car models sold 2 to 10 years ago.

And as far as being able to afford a HD player ... common... Even with the dates I put up there just for example, by that time HD DVD players will be VERY affordable. Sub $100 players, plus the adoption of this idea will greatly encourage off brand HD DVD players. You really should go back and read my whole post.:D

"People are gonna stop buying movies all together"..... I'm not gonna even touch that!!!!!! Nice post #4.

You can't be serious? Toshiba would lose billions of dollars and probably go out of business. That's the worst idea I've ever heard. People would be furious and probably stop buying movies all together. There are millions upon millions of people who can't afford an HD DVD player and would be screwed entirely. All the automakers who put DVDs in cars would be screwed, all the nav systems that use DVDs, etc... The backlash would be massive and Toshiba would be vilified in the media and public in general. Not to mention the gov't would nail them for anti-trust violations.
How about that for 2009 all special edition DVDs should include HD layer and by 2011 no "DVD only" but DVD/HD and in 2015 only HD release.

You can't be serious? Toshiba would lose billions of dollars and probably go out of business. That's the worst idea I've ever heard. People would be furious and probably stop buying movies all together. There are millions upon millions of people who can't afford an HD DVD player and would be screwed entirely. All the automakers who put DVDs in cars would be screwed, all the nav systems that use DVDs, etc... The backlash would be massive and Toshiba would be vilified in the media and public in general. Not to mention the gov't would nail them for anti-trust violations.


Did you read the post. Twin discs will still play in all of those devices you claim would be obsolete. No harm no foul.

For every person that buys a movie specifically because it is a combo, there are 3 more that pass on it because it's a combo.

But hey, I'm sure your personal little anecdote can apply to everyone in the world, right?

For every person that buys a movie specifically because it is a combo, there are 3 more that pass on it because it's a combo.

But hey, I'm sure your personal little anecdote can apply to everyone in the world, right?

I think there is a little confusion between a combo flipper, and a Twin disc. I think a Twin disc would be much more accepted. IF they can get the cost of a TL51 pressed with both the SD and HD 1080, to within a few bucks of current SD prices, with "war" will dramatically shift.

The TL51 discs should BECOME the SD version. 1 UPC code.

You are right though, the flipper does cause some concern for some buyers. Personally, I don't care, but I would prefer a Twin. The TL51 may be the next bomb shell up Tosh's sleeve. The hang up may be production speed, because if the TL was to replace SD they would need to get production up 20 fold. That level of production may take a while.

me and my 3 "HD DVD" buying friends dig combos dude

For every person that buys a movie specifically because it is a combo, there are 3 more that pass on it because it's a combo.

But hey, I'm sure your personal little anecdote can apply to everyone in the world, right?

How do you know that? It's clear there's not data published to support your assertions.

Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix was, before the Warner announcement, the day-and-date title that pretty much held its own with the Blu-ray version. Combos may repel some people, but you have no idea how many of us with children will choose combo first, SD second, and HD last.

You are right though, the flipper does cause some concern for some buyers. Personally, I don't care, but I would prefer a Twin. The TL51 may be the next bomb shell up Tosh's sleeve. The hang up may be production speed, because if the TL was to replace SD they would need to get production up 20 fold. That level of production may take a while.

I thought (just going off recollection of something I heard here) that the TL discs wouldn't work in current players, is that correct?

I thought (just going off recollection of something I heard here) that the TL discs wouldn't work in current players, is that correct?

I believe the speculation is IF they will work in the Gen 1 Players. All current players should be fine. It is still unclear if they will work in the GEN 1 players.

I'm sure some one here can give more info on that.

I imagine it would be prone to damage more . Too bad studios cant just include an SD movie version with the HD DVD. Probably wouldn't cost anymore than a dollar or so.
Exactly! That's the real answer. I love flippers too, because I often buy movies while living in my second home(apt) during the week, but would like the HD version for the HT when I get home on the weekends. Flippers for kids movies isn't the best way to go, as we all know how hard on discs kids are. That cannot be argued otherwise. The HD side would surely get damaged at some point. Half of the HD titles I rent from Netflix will not play because of scratching damage and have to be returned. Throwing in an SD version of the disc with the HD would only cost pennies, and be a very smart move by the studios and satisfy a lot of parents.

They can put "hub labels" that will be easier to read, or just put one red hub label to show the top side for HD DVD playing.

I was thinking of a red dye layer. I have some CDRs that are blue, some that are black. So it shouldn't be all that hard.

Exactly! That's the real answer. I love flippers too, because I often buy movies while living in my second home(apt) during the week, but would like the HD version for the HT when I get home on the weekends. Flippers for kids movies isn't the best way to go, as we all know how hard on discs kids are. That cannot be argued otherwise. The HD side would surely get damaged at some point. Half of the HD titles I rent from Netflix will not play because of scratching damage and have to be returned. Throwing in an SD version of the disc with the HD would only cost pennies, and be a very smart move by the studios and satisfy a lot of parents.

If they included both discs people would just sell the second disk, not buy HD DVD players. Plus that HUGE addition to the resale market would come right out of the studios pockets. Why would Joey buy the DVD retail for $19.99 when he can get it for 7 bucks from the guy who bought the HD DVD and doesn't want the regular DVD that came with it? Similarly, why would John Techie buy the new HD DVD for $19.99 when he could buy the HD DVD from the now flooded market for a few bucks off Joey, who doesn't have an HD DVD player and could care less about that extra disc?

This whole "replace SD DVD's with combos/twins/dual discs" thing is a pipe dream that people really aren't putting any rational thought into. It's not going to happen. Give it up.

WOW seem to have touched a nerve here. I'll tell you why your wrong. Simply. How many software programs can you buy for Windows 95 anymore??? How bout Windows 98???? Not long and you not going to be able to buy progams for XP. There's very little or no difference at all. The government wouldn't even touch them, anymore than they are going to go after BDA for monopolizing HD or vise versa.

Really Microsoft? One of the biggest anti-trust suits in recent U.S.? Not to mention a computer is more of a necessity these days than a luxury like owning movies.

Oh and by the way, how many car manufacturers screamed when 8 track was phased out. They don't care.. that argument is ridiculous. They will adverise the fact that their new cars come WITH HDDVD players, and the New HDDVD player will still play all of your SD DVDs. They could care less about car models sold 2 to 10 years ago.

8 tracks were replaced because consumer's wanted tape decks, so the automakers built what people wanted. You didn't see some company proclaim that 8 tracks were now obsolete and try to shove tapes down everyone's throats.

And as far as being able to afford a HD player ... common... Even with the dates I put up there just for example, by that time HD DVD players will be VERY affordable. Sub $100 players, plus the adoption of this idea will greatly encourage off brand HD DVD players. You really should go back and read my whole post.:D

DVD players can be bought for like $25. There are plenty of people without $100 of disposable income FYI.

"People are gonna stop buying movies all together"..... I'm not gonna even touch that!!!!!! Nice post #4.

Ya well that's probably a bit over the top but your scenario would never happen, so I guess it doesn't matter.

How about that for 2009 all special edition DVDs should include HD layer and by 2011 no "DVD only" but DVD/HD and in 2015 only HD release.

There is no reason to set a time frame where things will be HD only release. When people are buying enough HD format movies it will naturally replace SD through market forces. When a company tries to impose it's will on a huge group of consumers it rarely works out for them. Don't you guys think if this was such a brilliant plan the scores of MBAs at Toshiba would have done it?

Did you read the post. Twin discs will still play in all of those devices you claim would be obsolete. No harm no foul.

Did you read the post?

...but Old players will NOT be able to play the new format.