I don't think HD is dead yet but its very likely if they don't do something drastic. Problem is if BD gave enough time gap for online content/bandwidth to catch up with this crazy war. Its still not anywhere near widely available.

Why does this remind me of The Princess Bride? :)

Brandon

Because that's what I was thinking when I posted it.

HD DVD folds...Completely.

It's pretty obvious.

Well, with over 640 respondants voting (in a forum that has favored HD DVD), it looks like 8% feel HD DVD will make the come back.. So, there is more work to be done.;)

My suspicions are confirmed roughly 9% of the poll takers here are on crack.

HD DVD beats BD completely..... What color is the sky in their world?????

HD DVD knew as recently as last year when the Paramount deal did not help their position overall. Software sales never materialized from Transformers or the $99 DUD sales.

Even before the Paramount deal they knew their best chance was coexistance. The Paramount/DW deal was supposed to change that reality into a chance for an outright win. Well BANG, it backfired by forcing WHV to make an all too important decision.

With HD DVD backers it's always shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Time to throw in the towel boys. Don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out :D

:d

you know its bad when you are watching 13 news and they do a short story about
blu-ray and hd-dvd and state that blu-ray appears to be winning.how many viewers
do you think they reach so if j6p doesn't know anything about the situation he or she
is living under a rock.

Perhaps an English course too.

fafner
Let me first clarify for everyone, this is your ENTIRE response to my argument. So if you can't refute the logic attack the grammar. Sorry if I type so fast I sometimes confuse their, they're, there. I'll take an iron clad argument over perfectly formed English any day.

Wow... The total of HDM, blue and red is struggling for 8% of the market. It is pretty prophetic to be able to determine a winner at this point. It's like two kids have entered a battlefield with BB guns and with the knowledge that one has a few more BBs in his pocket we can declare which one will take over the world. There are plenty of players who have not really laid down yet. The market is huge and the stakes are large. The alliances are tentative at best, this battle is barely beginning. And it is only one battle in a war of many fronts. Keep your hats on, it is way to early to tell anything for sure.

Wow I am shocked that there so many delusional people who think hd dvd can actually beat blu-ray. Let me guess you still believe in the tooth fairy!!!

If they actually had to bet money on it, I'm certain their stance would change.

Informal poll reveals 8.6% of posters are completely delusional. About what I'd guess.

Neither is going to 'win'.

HD-DVD will survive, as will Blu-Ray. I don't see anyone on here saying HD-DVD is going to win, I.E. eliminate Blu-Ray all together.

Informal poll reveals 8.6% of posters are completely delusional. About what I'd guess.

i think blu-ray supporters are delusional to think that just because you have gotten warner brothers to defect from hd dvd that suddenly people are going to run into best buy and pay $400 or more for a blu-ray player. blu-ray has less studio support than they had about six months ago. paramount/dreamworks titles such as blades of glory, transformers, shrek 3, beowulf, and bee movie are and will be exclusively on hd dvd. blu-ray has not fundamently strengthened its position except by weakening hd dvd.

"If they actually had to bet money on it, I'm certain their stance would change."

People are betting on it -- buying HD DVD players and HD DVD's. the list (best buy) price of the hd-a3 is $150 (but you can buy a hd-a30 for about $155 at amazon). the starting price of a blu-ray player at best buy is $400. people are taking odds of 2:1 or 3:1 and betting on hd dvd.

From the ashes of HD and BD a new format will emerge (er, actually TWO new formats formed by competing factions).

you know its bad when you are watching 13 news and they do a short story about
blu-ray and hd-dvd and state that blu-ray appears to be winning.how many viewers
do you think they reach so if j6p doesn't know anything about the situation he or she
is living under a rock.

Dewey beats Truman

http://www.printsandphotos.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Category_Code=Harry%2BTruman&Product_Code=3265

People are betting on it -- buying HD DVD players and HD DVD's. the list (best buy) price of the hd-a3 is $150 (but you can buy a hd-a30 for about $155 at amazon). the starting price of a blu-ray player at best buy is $400. people are taking odds of 2:1 or 3:1 and betting on hd dvd.
If there was one commodity in this world that I wish I could bottle and sell, it would be the thing people call Hope. I could sell it by the truckload to the people on the red side of the fence lately and make a killing.

There may be a few more people betting on those HD-A3s, but even with the prices cut in half for HD DVD, there's twice as many people betting on Blu-ray.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/miscgfx2/hdmarketsdjan082nd3rdweeks.jpg

If there was one commodity in this world that I wish I could bottle and sell, it would be the thing people call Hope. I could sell it by the truckload to the people on the red side of the fence lately and make a killing.

There may be a few more people betting on those HD-A3s, but even with the prices cut in half for HD DVD, there's twice as many people betting on Blu-ray.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/miscgfx2/hdmarketsdjan082nd3rdweeks.jpg

1 million hd dvd players
500,000 blu-ray players

twice as many hd dvd players as blu-ray players since inception.

twice as many blu-ray players as hd dvd players "sold" in a three-week period.

what happens after this week, when 1080p hdtv sales plummet? it's going to be hard to bundle "free" blu-ray players with television sales.

HD DVD coexists with Blu Ray (barely) though Blu Ray has the majority of studios / software sales.

I don´t expect BD to show very strong growth and i don´t expect HD DVD to go away.

Imo we´ll see the same situation as we´ve seen throughout 2007, if the studios don´t give up on HDM due to rather disappointing sales of software titles.

1 million hd dvd players
500,000 blu-ray players

twice as many hd dvd players as blu-ray players since inception.

twice as many blu-ray players as hd dvd players sold in a two-week period.

where did you come up with those numbers. Just curious.

where did you come up with those numbers. Just curious.

toshiba has said earlier this month that 1 million hd dvd players have been sold (this number includes xbox 360 add-on whose sole purpose is to play hd dvd's)

sony said earlier this month that there are 3.5 million blu-ray player (3 million ps3's and 500,000 stand-alone blu-ray players).

week 1 was about 50:50
week 2 was about 90:10
week 1+2 were about 2:1
week 3 was about 2:1

toshiba has said earlier this month that 1 million hd dvd players have been sold (this number includes xbox 360 add-on whose sole purpose is to play hd dvd's)

sony said earlier this month that there are 3.5 million blu-ray player (3 million ps3's and 500,000 stand-alone blu-ray players).

week 1 was about 50:50
week 2 was about 90:10
week 1+2 were about 2:1
week 3 was about 2:1

Toshiba said late last year that they controlled 48% of the standalone market.

Meaning about half of the market was HD DVD and the other half was BD.

toshiba has said earlier this month that 1 million hd dvd players have been sold (this number includes xbox 360 add-on whose sole purpose is to play hd dvd's)

sony said earlier this month that there are 3.5 million blu-ray player (3 million ps3's and 500,000 stand-alone blu-ray players).

week 1 was about 50:50
week 2 was about 90:10
week 1+2 were about 2:1
week 3 was about 2:1

There are also way more than 3 million PS3s, I think you need to check your sources.

where did you come up with those numbers. Just curious.

The last numbers I saw were through November. HD-DVD sold 700,000 stand alone players to 200,000 for BluRay.

Honestly I think 500,000 total stand alone devices on the Blu side is generous. But who knows.

There are also way more than 3 million PS3s, I think you need to check your sources.

my source is IGN. their source is the Blu-Ray Disc Association. That is 3 million PS3's in the United States.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/844/844492p1.html

From Digital Bits:

"Blu-ray Disc - 16,496 units
HD-DVD - 8,639 units

So it would certainly appear that Toshiba's price cutting has at least contributed to a modest rebound in the number of HD-DVD units moved, though sources are telling us that Blu-ray earned approximately 83% of all the actual dollars spent on high-def players for the week. Here are those totals...

Blu-ray Disc - $6,033,540
HD-DVD - $1,182,248"

Blu-Ray: $366 per player
Toshiba: $137 per HD DVD player

NPD doesn't count Amazon.

Toshiba said late last year that they controlled 48% of the standalone market.

Meaning about half of the market was HD DVD and the other half was BD.

I was actually going with Toshibas 48% number myself.

I was actually going with Toshibas 48% number myself.

there's been roughly a quarter million xbox 360 hd dvd add-on drives. that's a pretty size-able number (about half of all stand-alone blu-ray players sold).

the 48% from npd does not include amazon sales. i don't believe it includes wal*mart's sales either (for the same reason that the nielsen video scan doesn't include wal*mart -- because wal*mart doesn't want to share this information with anyone).

my source is IGN. their source is the Blu-Ray Disc Association. That is 3 million PS3's in the United States.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/844/844492p1.html

From Digital Bits:

"Blu-ray Disc - 16,496 units
HD-DVD - 8,639 units

So it would certainly appear that Toshiba's price cutting has at least contributed to a modest rebound in the number of HD-DVD units moved, though sources are telling us that Blu-ray earned approximately 83% of all the actual dollars spent on high-def players for the week. Here are those totals...

Blu-ray Disc - $6,033,540
HD-DVD - $1,182,248"

Blu-Ray: $366 per player
Toshiba: $137 per HD DVD player

NPD doesn't count Amazon.

Those number are pathetic for both sides. Really pathetic for Toshiba given their new pricing structure.

my source is IGN. their source is the Blu-Ray Disc Association. That is 3 million PS3's in the United States.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/844/844492p1.html

From Digital Bits:

"Blu-ray Disc - 16,496 units
HD-DVD - 8,639 units

So it would certainly appear that Toshiba's price cutting has at least contributed to a modest rebound in the number of HD-DVD units moved, though sources are telling us that Blu-ray earned approximately 83% of all the actual dollars spent on high-def players for the week. Here are those totals...

Blu-ray Disc - $6,033,540
HD-DVD - $1,182,248"

Blu-Ray: $366 per player
Toshiba: $137 per HD DVD player

NPD doesn't count Amazon.

Hmm, that is confusing about 500,000 BD standalones... I don't understand where the discrepancy is coming from.

So has BD sold more standalones than HD DVD which is what Toshiba reported or not?

Those number are pathetic for both sides. Really pathetic for Toshiba given their new pricing structure.

Generally you can expect sales to be low right after Christmas, I don't think anyone should be suprised by the low volume.

twice as many hd dvd players as blu-ray players since inception.

Of course you are discounting the most popular BD player of all.
I know, I know... PS3 owners don't buy movies.
Of course, if that is the case, it must be hard to explain why Blu-ray disk sales have been handily outstripping HD-DVD disk sales for over a year. Maybe HD-DVD owners don't like movies? Maybe they can't find movies? What is it? With "twice as many HD DVD players out there", why are the disk sales trailing so badly? There must be an explanation.

Personally, I think it is because many PS3 owners DO buy movies. In fact, I'll bet that not an insignificant number of them bought the PS3 BECAUSE it is a very capable BD player.

Ignoring it it silly (in my opinion, of course)
Not to mention the fact that Toshiba seemed to be claiming a 49% SA market share at CES, no?

Those number are pathetic for both sides. Really pathetic for Toshiba given their new pricing structure.

"Blu-Ray: $366 per player
Toshiba: $137 per HD DVD player"

I'm not sure how the revenue per player is calculated per "free" player, but I wouldn't be surprised if Best Buy accounts for it by dividing the $400-$500 instant discount proportionally by the price of the Blu-Ray player and 1080p HDTV.

But in reality, you pay a certain amount for the 1080p HDTV one week and then you are paying about $200 more for the HDTV and "free" Blu-Ray player the following week. Best Buy also likes to bundle in $200-$300 massage chairs with their HDTV's every now and then.

Of course you are discounting the most popular BD player of all.
I know, I know... PS3 owners don't buy movies.
Of course, if that is the case, it must be hard to explain why Blu-ray disk sales have been handily outstripping HD-DVD disk sales for over a year. Maybe HD-DVD owners don't like movies? Maybe they can't find movies? What is it? With "twice as many HD DVD players out there", why are the disk sales trailing so badly? There must be an explanation.

Personally, I think it is because many PS3 owners DO buy movies. In fact, I'll bet that not an insignificant number of them bought the PS3 BECAUSE it is a very capable BD player.

Ignoring it it silly (in my opinion, of course)
Not to mention the fact that Toshiba seemed to be claiming a 49% SA market share at CES, no?

eventually stand-alone high-definition video disc player sales will dwarf ps3 sales. at that point, with its low attach rate, the ps3 will be less of a factor.

Generally you can expect sales to be low right after Christmas, I don't think anyone should be suprised by the low volume.

Yeah but how many 100 dollar DVD players were sold during the same period?
At that price I would have expected them to easily double BluRay players just by the pricing of the player alone. At 130 bucks it is competing with higher end upscalers and DVD players.

Of course you are discounting the most popular BD player of all.
I know, I know... PS3 owners don't buy movies.
Of course, if that is the case, it must be hard to explain why Blu-ray disk sales have been handily outstripping HD-DVD disk sales for over a year. Maybe HD-DVD owners don't like movies? Maybe they can't find movies? What is it? With "twice as many HD DVD players out there", why are the disk sales trailing so badly? There must be an explanation.

Personally, I think it is because many PS3 owners DO buy movies. In fact, I'll bet that not an insignificant number of them bought the PS3 BECAUSE it is a very capable BD player.

Ignoring it it silly (in my opinion, of course)

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/23/npd-confirms-huge-blu-ray-share-jump/

Perhaps the most interesting news was the total numbers for 2007. While we have been lead to believe that HD DVD has had higher standalone sales all year, the NPD totals show the unit sales were the same for both formats, each with 49% of the unit share, however Blu-ray Disc players had 58% of the revenue compared to HD DVD with only 37%. The remaining 2% unit sales were the combo players, with 5% of the revenue for 2007.


So NPD is reporting that total sales for standalones in 2007 were 49% for HD DVD and 49% for BD.

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/23/npd-confirms-huge-blu-ray-share-jump/



So NPD is reporting that total sales for standalones in 2007 were 49% for HD DVD and 49% for BD.

does not include amazon (and the $160 hd-a3 on thanksgiving day with 10 free hd dvd's). most likely does not include wal*mart (and any of the tens of thousands of hd-a2's that wal*mart sold in a few days in early november)

does not include amazon (and the $160 hd-a3 on thanksgiving day with 10 free hd dvd's). most likely does not include wal*mart (and any of the tens of thousands of hd-a2's that wal*mart sold in a few days in early november)

Ahh, so of course Walmart and Amazon sold half of the HD DVD players sold in 2007 and no Blu-ray players.

Now it all makes sense!

:rolleyes:

If HD DVD had a 2:1 standalone advantage and a vastly superior attach rate wouldn't that make for software sales greater than BD?

Why doesn't it?

does not include amazon (and the $160 hd-a3 on thanksgiving day with 10 free hd dvd's). most likely does not include wal*mart (and any of the tens of thousands of hd-a2's that wal*mart sold in a few days in early november)

The reports I saw had ~100K HD-DVD players pushed that weekend.

Ahh, so of course Walmart and Amazon sold half of the HD DVD players sold in 2007 and no Blu-ray players.

Now it all makes sense!

:rolleyes:

I really dont think we will ever get a straight answer on the actual sales break down. In your article there is a link at the bottom claiming HD-DVD had 62% of all HD sales over the holiday season.

where did you come up with those numbers. Just curious.

To understand the numbers HD-DVD fans come up with, you haver to use the Toshiba rule. The Toshiba rule is simple: the Playstation 3 is never to be counted as a blu-ray when calculating number of players sold, however, the Playstation3 must always be counted as a blu-ray player when calculating discs-per-player sold.

To Toshiba (and HD-DVD fans), the Playstation 3 is Schroedinger's cat, both existing and not at the same time.

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/23/npd-confirms-huge-blu-ray-share-jump/



So NPD is reporting that total sales for standalones in 2007 were 49% for HD DVD and 49% for BD.

"Perhaps the most interesting news was the total numbers for 2007. While we have been lead to believe that HD DVD has had higher standalone sales all year, the NPD totals show the unit sales were the same for both formats, each with 49% of the unit share, however Blu-ray Disc players had 58% of the revenue compared to HD DVD with only 37%. The remaining 2% unit sales were the combo players, with 5% of the revenue for 2007."

If you assume that the combo-players sold for $800, Blu-Ray players sold for on average $379 versus $242 for HD DVD players. If you assume that the combo-players sold for $900, Blu-Ray players sold for on average $426 versus $272 for HD DVD players. I'm still not coming up with Bill Hunt's magic $200 difference in price.

Have to close this now

Thank you