Well I upgraded my receiver to Denon's 3808 and now I'm gonna start to work on upgrading my speakers.

I think I want to start with the sub? I've been tryinr to read as much as I can on here but MAN!.

Well anyway, what would be a good sub to get for around $500-600? I could go a little higher if it was really worht it but if I don't have I would rather not.

As you can tell I'm a novice at this compared to most of you.

Well right now we have Canton fronts and center and Jamo rears(5.1) and an old old pioneer 10" sub(S-W100 )that I think I bought from a friend long long ago.

So far, as much as we have heard speakers we are planning on getting Monitor Audios gold reference or series something like that. They are a little pricey and may have to go with the ones right below those. So unless we hear anything we like more than the MA's,thats what we will end up with(she really likes them).

The sub is very old and I figured I could get a different brand sub other than the same brand of the speakers? I can live with the Canton's till I can upgrade.

The room is an open one with a vaulted ceiling(i'm gonna guess it like 23x20 but not sure how much that will matter because we are planning to move in a few months.

Well any suggestions I would really appreciate.

eD, SVS, HSU, Candence, AV123....all these have great offerings. Get the best with the most for your money. It's easy, not rocket science.;)

I had a SVS PB10, eD A2-300. They were very good subs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136

I have a Denon 4308. My MFW-15 in Palisander Natural Satin should be arriving soon from av123.

Yes I was looking at the SVS,HSU and Candence and seems everyone likes them. What sucks is you can't hear them. Are these better than what you see at AV stores (infinity,velodyne,etc)?Could someone tell me which models to look at and price ranges? maybe even the websites for these?

Oh and by the way this is going to be 90-95% for movies (closer to 95% :) ) if that makes any difference

If you can wait you have follwing choices.

MFW-15, Epik knight, eD A5-350

If you need a sub now SVS pB12-NSD is another great sub.

All of the above subs are in your price range plus shipping.

What do you mean wait? Are they just coming out with these? backordered? Whats the prices on these? I would like to hear from owners of these and how they did with movies? I gonna assume it will be a VERY BIG improvement from what I have now?

There is two months plus wait on ed and MFW-15 subs.

Regarding Epik please call them

MOst of them are in $600 + shipping.

What do you mean wait? Are they just coming out with these? backordered? Whats the prices on these? I would like to hear from owners of these and how they did with movies? I gonna assume it will be a VERY BIG improvement from what I have now?

eD is looking like a 2+ month lead time right now. The A3-300 is a great sub from eD ($475, shipping included). The Epik sub that suits your price range is the Epik Knight ($599+ shipping). However, Epik is waiting on amps to come in for some of its subs, the Knight included. Not sure when those will be in - might want to check with them. Subs from either of these manufacturers might take a little while to get to you. SVS has subs available now. The PB12-NSD that was recommended to you is $599+ shipping. It's not quite powerful enough considering your large room, but since you said you'll be moving, and will probably be in a smaller room in the new house, it should perform very well. It should completely destroy the little 10" Pioneer you own now, no matter the room.

I own two PB10-NSD's (little brothers to the PB12-NSD) and can say they're excellent for movies. Compared to the 12" Infinity I had before (which should also be better than your current sub), they have significantly better extension and produce much more accurate bass with much lower distortion. One PB12-NSD should be comparable to dual PB10's below 20hz, while the dual PB10's should have a little more output above 20hz. Just thought I'd give my impression - I don't own the exact subs you're looking at, but they aren't too far off.

Again, as far as bang for your buck is concerned, I think the Epik Knight is the best value. If you don't mind the wait (and the very large size), it's the way to go, IMO. If you want your sub soon, the PB12-NSD is still a very capable sub, and should be at your door within a few days of your order. Good luck.

I also recently picked up the 3808 and just added a SVS PB12 NSD this week. It is amazing.

What do you mean wait? Are they just coming out with these? backordered? Whats the prices on these? I would like to hear from owners of these and how they did with movies? I gonna assume it will be a VERY BIG improvement from what I have now?

There is a wait on the MFW-15 depending on which finish you choose. Some finishes are available now. Check here for data on how the subs fared for HT and Music:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136

Hey guys thanks for all the great info and opinions. If anyone has anymore please keep them coming!

BTW How big is the Epik Knight(dimensions)?

BTW How big is the Epik Knight(dimensions)?

Enclosure dimensions: 26H x 18W x 26D inches (27D with grill)


http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/KnightSpecifications.html

I would go with the Cadence CSX-15 or the Epik Knight sub, both very good options.

I can vouch for Epik. Can't get enough of my Castle.:)

I would go with the Cadence CSX-15 or the Epik Knight sub, both very good options.

and both at completely different price and performance levels

and both at completely different price and performance levels

I agree. The CSX-15 is getting very favorable word of mouth right now, but the Epik Knight is in a whole different league. Much bigger enclosure, much deeper extension - it shouldn't be close. If you can get the Knight, you should be in for some amazing bass.

That was the Knight, but the Knight should still be on a different level

That was the Knight, but the Knight should still be on a different level

It's been a long day...lol...I'll edit the post. Thanks

You bought a $1600.00 reciever (I know, because I also have the 3808), I don't know how much the Monitor speakers are but I can't find them for sale on-line and they do have their own thread so I'm pretty sure they are quite expensive(probably more expensive than my Klipsch speakers). My questions is, why skimp on your sub? The sub is IMHO the second most important speaker in the system for HT right behind the center channel. I see folks reccomending the knight due to your price range, and the knight is a great sub. But the rest of your system deserves the CASTLE or above. Same box as the Knight, but better driver and more powerful amp. BTW, I bought the tower and am loving it.

How much is the Castle? Is the best place to buy these on their web sites? Can someone give me the web site where to buy these? I'm kinda favoring the Epik or the ( I think it's the A5-350,I think the brand is Cadence)

How much is the Castle? Is the best place to buy these on their web sites? Can someone give me the web site where to buy these? I'm kinda favoring the Epik or the ( I think it's the A5-350,I think the brand is Cadence)

The only place to buy these (new, anyway) is on their websites. They sell direct, no dealers. That's a main reason they're so cheap! Anyway, the Epik makes the Castle, Elemental Designs makes the A5-350, and Cadence makes the CSX-15. The Castle is $999+ shipping. I didn't mean to mention it earlier - it was late and I accidently mentioned the Castle, intending to reference the Epik Knight instead. The Epik's and the eD A5-350 are both in a different league than the Cadence CSX-15, as they should be (they're twice the price). I'd probably go with the Epik Knight in the $600+ shipping range. At that price, I don't think it can be beat.

Lakersfan thanks. Which one of the SVS's and the HSU's is comparable to the Knight and the A5-350? How do they fair?
P.S. I went ot Epik's web site and clicked on the "order" button to look at prices and I noticed that it does not give me the option to order the "Knight". Anyone know why?

Which one of the SVS's and the HSU's is comparable to the Knight and the A5-350?

The ones that cost 2x more

The ones that cost 2x more

Now that is just bull. The guy is asking for advice and you are giving him BS. Not cool.

I am giving him my honest thoughts. You're entitled to your thoughts, but mine are perfectly "cool" to state as well.

Lakersfan thanks. Which one of the SVS's and the HSU's is comparable to the Knight and the A5-350?

SVS pb12-nsd

HSU vtf3-mk3

Def Tech SuperCube III

SVS pb12-nsd

HSU vtf3-mk3

pdadi is right. My guess is the PB12-NSD and VTF3 MK3 won't quite measure up to the Epik Knight and eD A5-350, but they're great subs from reputable companies nonetheless. I personally use two SVS PB10's in my very small room and really enjoy them. Dealing with SVS, from communicating with questions about what sub(s) would best suit my needs, to ordering, to the quick delivery, to the products themselves, has been a thoroughly enjoyable experience. I can highly recommend SVS. If you absolutely want to maximize your performance per dollar, however, it looks like Epik and eD have taken the crown from the previous budget kings, SVS and Hsu. Purchasing a sub from any of these four companies will probably satisfy your bass needs just fine, and all four companies have great reputations. My experience with SVS has been nothing short of phenomenal in every respect, so I can personally vouch for them. Hsu also has a very good reputation and a strong following. Again, you really can't go wrong with the SVS PB12-NSD, Hsu VTF3 MK3, eD A5-350, or Epik Knight. However, my opinion still stands that you'll get the absolute most performance for the money with the Knight. Good luck.

av123 MFW-15 would be a good choice at that price level.

How much is the Castle? Is the best place to buy these on their web sites? Can someone give me the web site where to buy these? I'm kinda favoring the Epik or the ( I think it's the A5-350,I think the brand is Cadence)

The Castle is $999 + shipping. The web site is www.epiksubwoofers.com.

I have the 3808. I bought the Outlaw LFM 1 EX over the holidays. I am certainly no expert, but I think it sounds unbelievable. Outlaw has extended the sale on it that they were running over the holidays so it falls into your price range. I have no idea how it compares to the other subs mentioned in the thread, I'm sure they are all great.

I have the 3808. I bought the Outlaw LFM 1 EX over the holidays. I am certainly no expert, but I think it sounds unbelievable. Outlaw has extended the sale on it that they were running over the holidays so it falls into your price range. I have no idea how it compares to the other subs mentioned in the thread, I'm sure they are all great.

+1 great choice at great price

You bought a $1600.00 reciever (I know, because I also have the 3808), I don't know how much the Monitor speakers are but I can't find them for sale on-line and they do have their own thread so I'm pretty sure they are quite expensive(probably more expensive than my Klipsch speakers). My questions is, why skimp on your sub? The sub is IMHO the second most important speaker in the system for HT right behind the center channel.

I have to agree with this comment. I too have the Denon 3808. I just got it before x-mas. Great receiver. I understand having a budget, the 3808 is pretty good and reasonably pricy too. I'm pretty new at this who HT thing too, but even I could tell the importance of a good sub. I went from a crappy Sony dual 8" sub, to a SVS PC12 plus, to finally the SVS PC ultra 13. I know that the ultra 13 is outside of your price range and is about the same price as your receiver, but the difference is definitely there and worth it. There is a dramatic difference from each of the levels of subs that I've had. Consider the SVS NSD 12 to start, but if you can save up, go for the gold! An excellent sub will make your music and HT experience oh some much better.

Consider the SVS NSD 12 to start, but if you can save up, go for the gold!

And if you can't save up, get something better for the price from a different brand.

In case you haven't already seen this I am including a link to the craigsub subwoofer rankings. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136 You may want to look at this and the craigsub thread. Craig has independantly tested several subs and assigned them scores. A lot of people, including me, bought their subs based largely on this information. He gives 3 scores, overall, and HT-Music scores. Each point indicates a 5% difference. The Epik Castle and the SVS PC ultra 13 have the same overall score. The Castle has a higher HT score while the PC ultra 13 has the higher music score.

Can anyone please give me the Elemental Designs main web site so I can look at product and prices

Main page is not what you want, you'd still need to find your way from there to what you want (http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/index.php?cPath=2_41).
A5-350 used to be a champ for $600 shipped, but now its $115 more expensive and mwf-15 topped it in craig's rating..other eD subs might still be the champs for their prices but they're not tested.

Ok after READING! my brains out(till it hurts) and man it's confusing, it's hard to pick one. Here are my two front-runners. Epik's Knight for $599 + $99.10 shipping! which makes it $698.10 and the eD A5-350.Now on the 350 you have the option of a LT-350 for $650 or a LT-550 for $715. Which one is better and why? Now with the 350 it looks like they include shipping so it puts these two in the same price range(at least that's how I read it on thier web site?) How long of a wait is there for each one of these?

SVS,Hsu,Cadence are nice also but it seems pound for pound and $ and reviews,these two are the best buy for the money?

Anyone disagree,if so why? which one would you pick?

MWF-15 from av123 is better than a5-350 - according to Craig's ranking. So in theory thats the one you should go with if you're looking for a $600 sub. All ED subs include shipping in the price.

Nobody knows where the Knight would fall in the craigsub rankings so you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could tell you which is better. I'm sure it would fall somewhere between the valor at 91 points and the Castle at 109 points. With the MFW-15, you know where it falls and you can tell all your friends that you have a sub that beats the $5000.00 DD-18.

How much better(point-wise) is the MWF-15 to the A5-350?

How much better(point-wise) is the MWF-15 to the A5-350?

not much better.the x sub is better than z sub is getting old.its just a one man's opinion.

103 vs 96.

Elemental Designs A7-900 ($2200 ID/SI): 116 points (63-53)
Epik Conquest ($1599 ID): 112 points (60-52)
SVS PB13-Ultra ($1499 ID): 109 points (57-52)
Epik Castle ($999 ID): 109 points (59-50)
AV123 MFW-15 Duals: 109 points (56-53) (note, duals were tested as duals are offered as a package)
Creative Sounds Dual SDX-15 driver + Behringer EP-2500 Amp + Behringer DEQ2496 ($1630 ID): 105 points (57-48)
JL Audio Fathom 113 ($3500 BM): 103 points (53-50)
AV123 MFW-15 ($599 ID): 103 points (53-50)
Def Tech Trinity ($3000 BM): 102 points (54-48)
Velodyne DD-18 ($5000 BM): 100 points (50-50)
ACI Maestro ($2400 ID): 97 points (47-50)
eD A5-350 ($715 ID/SI): 96 points (50-46)
JL Audio Fathom 112 ($2600 BM): 95 points (45-50)
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo ($999 ID): 94 points (47-47)
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo ($899 ID): 92 points (45-47)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo ($799 ID): 92 points (45-47)
Epik Valor ($549 ID): 91 points (44-47)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo ($699 ID): 91 points (45-46)
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points (47-43)
Axiom EP-500 ($1230 ID/SI): 90 points (43-47)
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo ($599 ID): 88 points (42-46)
SVS PB12-Plus/2 ($1299 ID): 87 points (47-40)
SVS PB12-NSD ($599 ID): 86 points (43-43)
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo ($499 ID): 86 points (40-46)
Rocket UFW-12 ($999 ID): 85 points (provisional) (35-50)
Acculine A-sub ($289 ID/SI): 85 points (provisional, currently out of production) (40-45)
Elemental Designs A2-300 ($350 ID/SI): 83 points (44-39)
SVS PB10-NSD ($429 ID): 83 points (43-40)
Dana Audio 600 ($869 ID): 83 points (36-47)
Rocket X-Sub ($199 ID): 78 points (34-44)
BIC H-100 ($229 eBay): 78 points (40-38)
Rocket Tyke: 60 points (If you care, PM me ... )

I'll second domingos1965's comment don't get too tied up with the numbers. Use them for a guide, but don't base your decision solely on the results.

It looks like you have narrowed your decision to the 3 new $700 subs on the market today. Before you decide, I would read the threads dedicated to the brands. eD, Epik, and av123. I think only the Epik can get you something within a couple of weeks. eD is 6-8 weeks. And av123 is at least March 31st.

One other thing to think about is the finish and where are you going to place the sub. Some people care about that kinda thing, others don't.

I do think you are going to be well served by increasing your sub budget to the $700 range. But look on the bright side, unless you live in the state they reside, there is no sales tax.

Personally, if I chose today I would get AV123's MFW-15. But I decided to get eD's A5-350 before they raised their prices Jan 1st.

Look on the bright side, no matter which one you pick, it will probably be the best sub you have heard in your life. And that should make you grin from ear to ear. :)

Can anyone answer this for me: Now on the 350 you have the option of a LT-350 for $650 or a LT-550 for $715. Which one is better and why? What would be the difference?

P.S. Seean54: Have you received the A5-350 yet? If so,how would you rate it? Is it better than you expected or thought or ?

Can anyone answer this for me: Now on the 350 you have the option of a LT-350 for $650 or a LT-550 for $715. Which one is better and why? What would be the difference?

P.S. Seean54: Have you received the A5-350 yet? If so,how would you rate it? Is it better than you expected or thought or ?

The LT-550 is just a more powerful amp. Naturally, the larger amp should offer slightly better performance, which is why the sub costs a bit more. For the small difference in price, I'd go for the LT-550, but if every dollar counts, the A5-350 with the LT-350 amp should still be a great performer.

I haven't recieved the A5-350 yet, it is still awaiting the woodshop. So I can't comment on it, but I also don't have anything to compare it to. So, my impressions wouldn't help that much. This is why everyone likes Craigsub's list. He has compared a lot of different subs and tried to make an unbiased ranking of them.

Also with as much money as you have/are apparantly spending on your HT. You shouldn't hesitate to spend $65 on the better amp for the A5-350. BTW, I know eD doesn't charge your CC until they actually start building your sub. Which I think would be about a month from now. If you can give up your morning Starbucks that should about cover it.

now if I went with the LT-550,would that be better than the Knight?

now if I went with the LT-550,would that be better than the Knight?

i think the LT-550 is more powerful than the knight

The knight has a 350 watt Bash amp..I'm not sure how Bash amps compare to Kiega amps in the eD subs..But the knight has a bigger enclosure than a5-350, and the driver could be better - or not.