I don't really buy SD DVDs any more, but I've noticed that the prices have crept up. I remember buying new release SD DVDs for $15. Now they're mostly $18-20. Doesn't anyone think this has to do with the migration to HDM? Or do I need to remove my tinfoil hat? :D

It probably has more to do with the cost of fuel to get them to you. Check the consumer price index. Lots of things have gone up.

You can leave the hat on. I'm sure there'll be another conspiracy along shortly. :D

Doesn't anyone think this has to do with the migration to HDM? What migration?

larry

What migration?

larryLOL!! No kidding. HDM sales vs DVD sales is less "migration" and more "curiosity" at the moment.

LOL!! No kidding. HDM sales vs DVD sales is less "migration" and more "curiosity" at the moment.Trivia for you: How many years did it take for DVD to reach 10% of the USA TV households?

Recession is an Americans best friend! Seriously though with the "rough" times coming it seems that prices for most goods will go, so expect slow sales for both formats...

Trivia for you: How many years did it take for DVD to reach 10% of the USA TV households?


And how many SD-ready sets were available to the consumer at the same time.

Trivia for you: How many years did it take for DVD to reach 10% of the USA TV households?You mean it's THERE, already? Wow. ;)

Well it probably doesnt help that many people arent buying the way they used to and they are not selling the same volumes. I have bought about 285 BD and HD movies over the last year and a half but only 3 SDs. As far as I am concerned SD is a dying format and dont want to support it anymore.

I don't really buy SD DVDs any more, but I've noticed that the prices have crept up. I remember buying new release SD DVDs for $15. Now they're mostly $18-20. Doesn't anyone think this has to do with the migration to HDM? Or do I need to remove my tinfoil hat? :D

It seems to me that standard def. dvd prices are around $20 full retail, but actually sell for around $15 to $17 when a title first comes out. It doesn't take very long for those to drop to a $14.99 or even $9.99 full retail - and eventually they seem to show up selling for as low as $5 or $6 - so no - I think prices are dropping, not rising. I think pricing + upconverting players are the main reasons standard def dvd's have a very long life ahead, and high def will stay a small niche. When and if HD-DVD expires, that niche will simply get even smaller . . .:cool:

And how many SD-ready sets were available to the consumer at the same time.First, I am not a marketing person, for historical DVD data check with Jim Taylor.

When defining market penetration you are interested in a target market. That is the reason the term “TV households” was/is used.

The only meaningful data for HDM market penetration would be “HDTV households”. (I am aware that some may own a HDM player connected to a SD display device)

What migration?

larry

Yes, yes, the market penetration is low for HDM. But what I was referring to was the price jump from SD to HD. It's almost as if they want to make it appear that it isn't that big by keeping DVD prices higher than they used to. Yeah, CPI and higher fuel costs probably have more to do with it, but then it should affect HD, too.

First, I am not a marketing person, for historical DVD data check with Jim Taylor.

When defining market penetration you are interested in a target market. That is the reason the term “TV households” was/is used.

The only meaningful data for HDM market penetration would be “HDTV households”. (I am aware that some may own a HDM player connected to a SD display device)

The question would be what the target market is. I would say that unless you have a really large screen, HD will not be easy to get into everyones home. And if you get it, they will not rebuy catalouge titles. And if you cant get down the HDM prices many will have second doubt to buy the title in HDM.

The only people I found intrested in HD movies have been owners of projectors.

The question would be what the target market is. I would say that unless you have a really large screen, HD will not be easy to get into everyones home. And if you get it, they will not rebuy catalouge titles. And if you cant get down the HDM prices many will have second doubt to buy the title in HDM.

The only people I found intrested in HD movies have been owners of projectors.All of this has been argued before (many, many times) but with different mediums. Replace SD with VHS and replace HD with DVD or replace SD with LP and replace HD with CD or ....

We all know the success story of DVD yet do you how long it took DVD to reach parity with VHS?

We all know the success story of DVD yet do you how long it took DVD to reach parity with VHS?

There is one big difference, DVD was something that many people wanted, its was just the price that was wrong (In the beginnig).

HDM is different. Most people dont care even if the price would be low.

Sure if you can put HDM capacity in every new DVD player sold, you could have had a chance of getting HDM in everyones home, but if the movies dont come down in the same range as DVD. Very few will pay extra for something they dont really want.

We all know the success story of DVD yet do you how long it took DVD to reach parity with VHS?I know it took 5 years before the number of rentals was about equal. But if you're talking about an installed base, I'd hazard a guess to say parity still hasn't been reached. That is to say, there are still more homes with a VCR than with a DVD player. Though probably not by much.

one thing i have noticed this time around is advertising has been everywhere and lots
of it so if someone did not hear about it, its because they choose not to.its in magazines,radio,tv and newspapers also look at the internet no matter what site anyone
is on sooner or later there is an ad.

There is one big difference, DVD was something that many people wanted, its was just the price that was wrong (In the beginnig).Not true. As I posted above, “For historical DVD data check with Jim Taylor.” (or The Digital Bits). All of this is recorded history. For example, do some research to ascertain how many years it was till the general target populace even knew what DVD was after it was introduced to the US market?

We went On Air with WMPN-DT (HDTV) in November 1998. Unfortunately, there was a format war commencing (8VSB vs.COFDM) even after the FCC had approved 8VSB. So the early adoption of HDTV was hampered by two things. Awareness and a format war. (And please do not respond by saying the price was to high).

HDM is different. Most people dont care even if the price would be low.Here is another for you. How long before Color TV = BW TV in the US.

I know it took 5 years before the number of rentals was about equal. But if you're talking about an installed base, I'd hazard a guess to say parity still hasn't been reached. That is to say, there are still more homes with a VCR than with a DVD player. Though probably not by much.No argument from me. It would be interesting to know how many VCR households still use them for program delay. And of that group, how many know there is a DVD STB that has a big ◘ button on it.

Here is another for you. How long before Color TV = BW TV in the US.

On a 32 inch display the improvment of going HD is marginal.

On any TV going from BW to Color is a major difference.

Here is one for you

How long did it take for AudioDVD and SACD to become the norm?

Personally I don't care if HDM does remain a niche. As long as they keep releasing lots and lots of movies. Why should I give a damn what other people are watching or are not watching.


There is one big difference, DVD was something that many people wanted, its was just the price that was wrong (In the beginnig).



Wrong. Most people couldn't of cared less about DVD when it first came out. They were very happy with their VHS. Even when they did buy into it they bitched and moaned about the black bars.

Personally I don't care if HDM does remain a niche. As long as they keep releasing lots and lots of movies. Why should I give a damn what other people are watching or are not watching.




Wrong. Most people couldn't of cared less about DVD when it first came out. They were very happy with their VHS. Even when they did buy into it they bitched and moaned about the black bars.

Actually i never found that people didnt care for DVD. It was a logical step when people were used to getting music on CD.

It was the prices that kept people away.

DVD gave a huge upgrade in terms of VHS, the only upgrade HD gives us is PQ and AQ improvment.

I dont think we really can attract people invest in something thats doesnt give ju much more then that.

The biggest drawback is that once we buy a movie, we must replace every DVD player in our house to be able to play the movie. Thats not an attractive solution.

Sure DVD was a great hit. But there are other techs that have been implemented on a much smoother way.

ColorTV, was backward compatible with BW. Dolby Surround on VHS was backward compatible. Those who wanted it got it, and the rest could continue with their tech.

And dont forgett, why would the public pay 30$ for a movie they can get on DVD for 10$?

Greed is what killing HDM.

On a 32 inch display the improvment of going HD is marginal.May be in your case, I can not speak for your vision. Mine is 20-13L, 20-15R (and I am very thankful to be sighted and with that good of vision at my age). We had dozens of monitors at work, they ranged from 4" to 156" (front projectors), some were 4X3 and some were 16X9, direct view (CRT), plasma, LCD and LCoS. The professional grade 19" (CRT) monitors (with SMPTE 292M inputs) cost more than $20K. The quality of the picture was ALWAYS source dependent. A great source looked better than a bad source even on a $100.00 9" B&W monitor.

On any TV going from BW to Color is a major difference.The difference was not the intent, market penetration was.

How long did it take for AudioDVD and SACD to become the norm?AFAIK, they have not become the “Norm”. Most everyone understands that two formats that do essentially the same thing rarely becomes the “Norms”.

You may want to click the links in my signature line.

I don't really buy SD DVDs any more, but I've noticed that the prices have crept up. I remember buying new release SD DVDs for $15. Now they're mostly $18-20. Doesn't anyone think this has to do with the migration to HDM? Or do I need to remove my tinfoil hat? :D

Thats strange because this article states Wal-Mart buy them wholesale for $17....If thats the case they make very little profit on DVD.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/aug2006/db20060831_806225.htm

The article above states Wal-Mart buy their new DVD blockbusters at $17 each and in bulk quantities....If they sell them at $18 then their profit is minimal to say the least but perhaps they use DVD's as a loss leader to get people to buy other things in their stores.

May be in your case, I can not speak for your vision. Mine is 20-13L, 20-15R (and I am very thankful to be sighted and with that good of vision at my age). We had dozens of monitors at work, they ranged from 4" to 156" (front projectors), some were 4X3 and some were 16X9, direct view (CRT), plasma, LCD and LCoS. The professional grade 19" (CRT) monitors (with SMPTE 292M inputs) cost more than $20K. The quality of the picture was ALWAYS source dependent. A great source looked better than a bad source even on a $100.00 9" B&W monitor.

Well that sound nice, but you always must account for viewing distance. Sure SD look soft on my monitor. It also look soft on my projector. But when I watch it upscaled on my 32inch LCD in my livingroom it good enough. And Im definietly more PQ fanatic then the mainstrem public. So when I cant motivate going beyond DVD on that setup, how will J6P do it?



AFAIK, they have not become the “Norm”. Most everyone understands that two formats that do essentially the same thing rarely becomes the “Norms”.


Yes I know they didnt get to be the norm ;) That was my point. And it wasnt because they were 2 format, it was because there were 2 format noone cared about. CD was good enough. MP3 came as a fresh restart because it gave people what they wanted (single tracks and easy ways of distr.)

Well that sound nice, but you always must account for viewing distance.Oh please, you really do need to click the Red link in my signature line. Just how many charts & graphics, SMPTE (http://www.smpte.org/home) magazines, spreadsheet calculators, etc., do you think I have in regards to this?


Sure SD look soft on my monitor. It also look soft on my projector. But when I watch it upscaled on my 32inch LCD in my livingroom it good enough. And Im definietly more PQ fanatic then the mainstrem public. So when I cant motivate going beyond DVD on that setup, how will J6P do it?There is no way I can address this. If you are happy with your setup then what would you expect me to say?

I have used a rather cheap 4X3, 27" CRT display, using composite video to compare HD source (converted to SD) to the same source but the SD version. Even at 8' viewing distance there is a noticeable quality difference to some “Average” viewers. There are some that can not see the difference between VHS and DVD or HD.


That was my point. And it wasnt because they were 2 format, it was because there were 2 format noone cared about. CD was good enough. MP3 came as a fresh restart because it gave people what they wanted (single tracks and easy ways of distr.)You are stating this as fact. You need to back that up with proof, otherwise you are in violation of AVS rules.

You may want to research the “Walkman” (audio cassette) reign during the CD period.

Now back to topic please!!

I don't really buy SD DVDs any more, but I've noticed that the prices have crept up. I remember buying new release SD DVDs for $15. Now they're mostly $18-20. Doesn't anyone think this has to do with the migration to HDM? Or do I need to remove my tinfoil hat? :D

I guess it would depend on where you shop too. Then again I buy what I want to watch and don't really pay much attention to the price.

Now back to topic please!!

Im all the time, as long as the price is what it is not many would care about replacing DVD with HDM.

I still get all the new releases for sub $15, but you have to buy them on or around release day. Usually comes with a toy too or at least some sort of promotional item. :)

Tuesday is dinner and a movie day. Dinner out, and pick up a new release and then watch it in our own theater.

If I get one it's on new release Tuesday for maybe $15...if I miss that, I wait a couple of months and grab it when it goes for $9.99 etc at CC or BB.

Netflix for a month cost what a DVD does.

most people dont' buy DVDs anymore except for

* kids
* gifts
* $5.99 bin

Netflix for a month cost what a DVD does.

most people dont' buy DVDs anymore except for

* kids
* gifts
* $5.99 bin



The sales numbers -vs- rental numbers says your "most" comment still isn't really valid.

I want to own my content. I gave up on renting a long time ago. I want to watch what I want when I want. If a guest, my wife or myself ever want to watch it again I only have to go find it in the media rack.

Most of my firends are still the same way, some of them do rent for a buck at Micky D's though. :)

LOL!! No kidding. HDM sales vs DVD sales is less "migration" and more "curiosity" at the moment.

Even more pathetic is Apples movie download service shipped more units than HD-DVD and BluRay combined last year. And I honestly hadnt even heard of the thing until a couple of weeks ago :(