I think dvd recorders should have a feature where you can click a button to change the recording quality of something on the HDD! In other words it would change it from a good quality to a worse one if you want to free up space and when it's done it deletes the original! As it is, if I accidentally let my HDD get close to full and don't feel like bothering cutting out commercials and burning them off (or I don't even want it burnt off to begin with) I can't do much to free up space quickly.

It was bad enough cutting out commercials on my Pio 510, but the pio 640 is absolutely terrible and a step backward in every way imaginable and don't understand why so many people think it's great.

I'd like a macro feature so I don't have to keep "typing" in the same info all the time. Maybe a button + some numbers, and it will immediately type in common show titles, i.e. "The Universe -" or "D/C" (for Daily Show/Colbert Report), and then maybe skip the date (i.e., 1/28) and delete the day and speed -- what I'd do anyhow. I'm so lazy... ;)

Then you would have liked the Panasonic's of the past. They have such a feature that I use ALL the time. They remember like 20? phrases. I really liked that feature. They eliminated it on the new EZ series Panny's:mad: So if I'm doing a lot of title changes, I do it on the older ES series DVDR's.

It was bad enough cutting out commercials on my Pio 510, but the pio 640 is absolutely terrible and a step backward in every way imaginable and don't understand why so many people think it's great.Hmmm. I have been considering one of those newer, international model Pioneers, but after hearing that (and about the Panasonics, too), I guess I'll just stick with my trusty older units.

IMO the only reason for the new EZ Panny's is the great Panny recording quality and digital tuner. Both nice features, but as soon as the TR-40 Echostar digital tuner is available(OTA only) I will get one, and cut back my use of my EZ-17. The older ES series were more reliable IMO. Hopefully the new '08 Panny's will be less problematic than the EZ's, but I'm not holding my breath....

You'll most likely still end up using one of your DVD recorders with the TR-40, I'll bet. I have the Sony DHG-HDD500, and though I'm interested in the TR-50, I can at least wait to see how the issue of continuing to get the guide info will pan out (it may even get it through the TR-40, which will be free with a govt. coupon), and can afford to wait a bit for the reviews on the TR-50 unit to start rolling in. But even if it still fully functions, I would like to have another OTA HD DVR for a 2nd TV. I also would like the benefits of having the TR-50's newer tuner chip (the Sony has a 4th gen. one) at my main TV, which is further away from my antenna than the 2nd TV, and occasionally has breakups on one channel (where the 2nd one doesn't). Hopefully the TR-50 and TR-40 will be top quality.

Yes that what I'm planning. Using a TR-40(just tuner with event programmable channel changes) hooked to one of my older ES Panny DVDR's. I also plan on getting a TR-50 to be able to record true HD. If I had known about your Sony a few years ago, I would have been using that daily, but I think now with the programming uncertainty of the Sony, I'm betting on the Echostar. Sounds like you've got much use out of your Sony though, and hopefully they'll come up with a workaround for the programming thing.

I think dvd recorders should have a feature where you can click a button to change the recording quality of something on the HDD! In other words it would change it from a good quality to a worse one if you want to free up space and when it's done it deletes the original! As it is, if I accidentally let my HDD get close to full and don't feel like bothering cutting out commercials and burning them off (or I don't even want it burnt off to begin with) I can't do much to free up space quickly.

It's certainly not one step like you want, but you can do rate conversion dubbing on the Toshibas (my personal experience is with the XS32 only).
They don't have any "do it on the CPU" way of converting, it's literally just low-tech "play it and record it at the same time, at a different rate".

I just tend to dub stuff off to DVD-RWs when I'm near full.

The one big feature that I have been asking for, for years is "Commercial Advance" that would automatically cut the commercials out of your recordings something like it did on VCRs & that would take care of 99% of my editing jobs. RCA did have it on a couple of DVD models but the trouble was the RCA DVD recorders were junk.

BASHERS33 posted:

It was bad enough cutting out commercials on my Pio 510, but the pio 640 is absolutely terrible and a step backward in every way imaginable and don't understand why so many people think it's great.

Rammitinski replied:

Hmmm. I have been considering one of those newer, international model Pioneers, but after hearing that (and about the Panasonics, too), I guess I'll just stick with my trusty older units.

Everyone should bear in mind, editing technique is highly subjective and people often stress that their way is the "only" way. Some people are STILL peeved to the point of murder that Pioneer dropped its 2003/2004 feature "use a button on the remote to mark chapter points on-the-fly while you watch a recording real time at full screen". (Some Panasonics also had/have this feature.) The folks that "trained" themselves to mark-and-delete commercials this way just cannot accustom themselves to the current Pioneer "erase section" screen- it makes them rend their hair in disgust that they are forced to speed-scan the recording on a quarter-screen-size inset and input start-end deletion points in a defined mode instead of while they're enjoying the recording normally.

While it would be nice to have both options, "erase section mode" offers more versatility for edits that don't involve simple commercial deletion and even now, Pioneer's version of "erase section" mode is arguably the most bug-free of all mfrs: I have never once been able to hang or crash a 531 or 640 during editing, while I have heard many reports of editing issues with other brands. If you prefer to edit by marking chapters for deletion or hiding, there are a number of other brands that still use this method. Myself, I absolutely friggin HATED that method of editing: perhaps more so than BASHERS33 hates the 640 method. When I first saw the "erase section" mode on a Pio 531, I celebrated: it works the way I think. On earlier Pios, I found marking commercials as chapters and then deleting those chapters to be a complete PITA: clunky, imprecise, and hardly the best way to "pre-edit" shows I'm archiving off the HDD for later viewing. Give me "erase section" every time. Different strokes for different folks, is all I'm saying. A current Pioneer bought at a reasonable price is still a killer DVD/HDD recorder: keep Pioneer on your short list.

I'd like a macro feature so I don't have to keep "typing" in the same info all the time. Maybe a button + some numbers, and it will immediately type in common show titles, i.e. "The Universe -" or "D/C" (for Daily Show/Colbert Report), and then maybe skip the date (i.e., 1/28) and delete the day and speed -- what I'd do anyhow. I'm so lazy... ;)

AMEN to that one: the most useful day-to-day feature they could add to a DVD/HDD recorder would be some minimal text editing functions. Hell, I'd be thrilled just to get "copy and paste" between title names.

I agree with Citibear completely. I love my Pio 640, and like the editing on it. However, I, and some others, prefer to use "Chapter Edit" for editing, rather than "Erase Section." I can do anything in Chapter Edit that I can do in Erase Section, plus I can chaptermark for a thumbnail to use later, and create any chapters I want, possibly for division into separate titles later. This way, I make only one pass through the title, and set chapter marks for quickly doing other editing chores. My point isn't that 'my way is best,' but rather that the Pios offer several ways to do things, and probably one will suit you.

AMEN to that one: the most useful day-to-day feature they could add to a DVD/HDD recorder would be some minimal text editing functions. Hell, I'd be thrilled just to get "copy and paste" between title names.

How about the ability to connect up a wireless keyboard, to type in your info? My Sony 400 disc changer lets me do that.

Just a followup clarification re editing on current Pioneers: kjbawc pitched in to remind us you CAN perform a sort of "edit by chapter marking" on recent Pios, which does give an additional option to the "erase section" mode. However do note this is still NOT the method BASHERS33 and others are talking about when they bemoan the discontinued original Pio "chapter marking" function:

On the older units, you did not drop into any separate mode to mark chapters: they had a dedicated button on the remote and you marked chapters as you watched your recording totally normally at full screen with no graphics cluttering the screen. This was perfect for those who preferred to watch recordings on the HDD soon after making them, because tagging the ads while you watch the show in real-time can be a convenient time-saver IF you intend to leave the ads in the final recording and just use chapter skip to jump over them in future.

However, once chapters were marked, these early Pios required you to use an incredibly clunky and slow "edit chapter" screen to actually remove them, which blew the whole deal for most users. Later models refined this mode to be more fast and friendly, and this is what kjbawc is referring to: the current Pio "edit chapter" screen is similar to its "erase section" screen in quick responsiveness and some users have developed a shorthand that works better for them in one mode or the other. BUT: the full-screen mark-ads-as-you-view-normally feature is long gone: all chapter or edit functions on Pioneer now require you drop into a subscreen with a smaller inset image surrounded by timelines and readouts. This is the trend with most other brands as well.

Yes the Philips 3575 has the latter menu feature method to remove commercials. I think I would have really liked the Pio's that let me watch the show in full screen and then just mark the commercials that way. For me it's a extra step to record the show, then edit out the commercials, then watch the show. I think I'd like to be able to just watch it full screen and mark the points. I wonder why the trend is going away from the full screen editing method, sounds like others liked it. I wouldn't think it would cost more to implement, but I would rather get rid of the commercials, VS just chapter mark them.

Yes the Philips 3575 has the latter menu feature method to remove commercials. I think I would have really liked the Pio's that let me watch the show in full screen and then just mark the commercials that way. For me it's a extra step to record the show, then edit out the commercials, then watch the show.
Unless you're a "commercial collector," and if you wanted to "mark" commercials to get rid of them in edit, why not just use the 3575's Pause button to edit out commercials on the fly... only thing missing is a chapter mark at each pause.

No defiantly not a commercial collector :D but I like the idea of lossless HD dubbing from HDD to DVD, and if I used the pause method and copied from HDD to DVD realtime it would incur losses. Now if I was watching the event live I could pause the HDD, but I rarely watch TV live. Note if the Pio.'s method just marked the commercials with chapter marks, I would rather delete them like on the 3575. No sense taking up space on the DVD with the commercials.

The biggest feature I would desire is a series of new models that offer some real advancement other than a retread of last years models with a shuffling of some features.

Unless you're a "commercial collector," and if you wanted to "mark" commercials to get rid of them in edit, why not just use the 3575's Pause button to edit out commercials on the fly... only thing missing is a chapter mark at each pause.

Umm, because you'll lose part of the recording before you hit pause to un-pause it? Plus, why do that real time rather than doing it AFTERWARDS?

Can you explain how this "erase section" mode works?

My guess is that you essentially set the start and end points and THEN AND THERE say 'erase section'?

which sounds INCREDIBLY TEDIOUS to me.

Setting chapter points, then making a playlist to contain even or odd chapters, and dubbing it off, seems like WAY fewer steps to me.
(Also, if my 'erase section' guess is right, it's also essentially the exact same thing I can do on my toshiba by simply viewing chapters and deleting a chapter.)

Can you explain how this "erase section" mode works?

My guess is that you essentially set the start and end points and THEN AND THERE say 'erase section'?

which sounds INCREDIBLY TEDIOUS to me.

Setting chapter points, then making a playlist to contain even or odd chapters, and dubbing it off, seems like WAY fewer steps to me.
(Also, if my 'erase section' guess is right, it's also essentially the exact same thing I can do on my toshiba by simply viewing chapters and deleting a chapter.)

This is one of those gut-level preference issues that members will disagree on forever: its the same as the "you say tomaytoh" and "I say tomahtoh" debate, and about as useful.

Here's why: what is INCREDIBLY TEDIOUS is marking the damned chapter points for the ads to begin with: no matter WHICH editing scheme you prefer it takes the SAME amount of time to laboriously slow down, shuttle back and forth, and mark the beginning and end points of the sneaky ad breaks. This is a given: there is no difference at all between methods in this regard, it is the hardest part of the entire process.

That aside, people are basically left arguing whether its better to click the "delete" button in the "chapter edit" screen, in the "erase section" screen, or to "assemble a playlist". WHO CARES? There is no real winner: they are all the same in time-used sense, so it comes down to pure personal preference.

The ONLY logical alternative case is the one made by fans of older Pioneers and Pannys, on which you could simply mark the chapter points for ads during a normal full-screen viewing of a recording. IF you planned to leave the ads in and just skip over them in future, THIS was a tremendous timesaver because it was unnecessary to drop into a specific "chapter edit" screen/mode to insert chapter markers. BUT: that time advantage dried up the second you decided to DELETE those commercial chapters, because it would require a trip to the same damn tedious edit screens used on todays models to "delete chapters". Not to mention, the editing and navigation screens on early Pios were slower than molasses: they took forever to redraw the screen after each chapter delete and you had to wait for it to finish before doing the next deletion. Yuck.

Tomaytoh, tomahtoh: same difference really. ;) Use whichever mode makes you comfortable, and if you have a minute try the other options: you never know.

Everyone should bear in mind, editing technique is highly subjective and people often stress that their way is the "only" way. Some people are STILL peeved to the point of murder that Pioneer dropped its 2003/2004 feature "use a button on the remote to mark chapter points on-the-fly while you watch a recording real time at full screen". (Some Panasonics also had/have this feature.) The folks that "trained" themselves to mark-and-delete commercials this way just cannot accustom themselves to the current Pioneer "erase section" screen- it makes them rend their hair in disgust that they are forced to speed-scan the recording on a quarter-screen-size inset and input start-end deletion points in a defined mode instead of while they're enjoying the recording normally....rend their hair...

Now there is a phrase I don't hear very often. Someone angry or frustrated over the issue, who was also folliclly challenged, would have difficulty attempting this.:rolleyes:

Seriously, I have to agree with everything you have said. It is a matter of preference, and some people like one method, while other hate it. The same can be said of any given process. I especially agree that the real heart of the tedium is marking the beginning and ending of the commercial blocks. No content provider has any interest in making it easier since the commercials are their revenue stream. *WE* mostly care about the content, they only care about content in that it generates ratings with translate into more $ per minute.

Like Kelson said, my desire would be the release of new DVD recorders, WITH hard drives, and new/improved features. Maybe my top requested feature would be a wireless keyboard for text entry, which in my opinion is more tedius than finding commercial start/end points.

Maybe my top requested feature would be a wireless keyboard for text entry, which in my opinion is more tedius than finding commercial start/end points.

AMEN!

The ONLY logical alternative case is the one made by fans of older Pioneers and Pannys, on which you could simply mark the chapter points for ads during a normal full-screen viewing of a recording.

Umm, you can do this on the Toshibas too, that's why I was asking about the different editing techniques.

I just mark the chapters while watching normally (well, "watching" can mean FFing through specifically to find ads), then make a playlist later...
So it is sort of a preference thing, but it still seems like WAY fewer steps removing all of the ads 'in one step' (really add all of the non-ad chapters), rather than deleting each chapter one by one.

(sometimes I 30 sec skip through to find ads too.. I know that I can change the skip to be a longer time, I think a minute, but that involves going into the prefs.. I can just wham on the 30 sec skip a bunch of times until I get into the next ad break)