I know a lot of people have been questioning the growth rate of HDM compared to standard DVD (many saying that neither HDM format will "win").

Well you will be pleased to hear that HDM is actually being adopted at a faster rate than DVD was.

Link (http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6525812)

By Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 1/25/2008

JAN. 25 | High-definition DVD player sales during the fourth quarter spiked well above standard DVD at the comparable point in the earlier format’s life cycle.

Price-driven promotions are the main reason for high-def’s steeper growth curve, according to Paul Erickson, DisplaySearch director of DVD and HD Market Research.

Standard DVD players were priced more steadily during their first months on shelves, he explained, as they were never embroiled in a hyper-competitive format war.

During the last weeks of 2007, Blu-ray Disc players could be bought for less than $300, marking a $200 drop from widespread pricing earlier in the year. HD DVD players were offered at ultra-low $99 pricing at Wal-Mart and Best Buy in November.

“There is a much larger spike at the end of the year for next-generation DVD due to strong performances by both formats for November and December, as well as heavy competition-driven promotions for both Black Friday and the December holiday season,” said Erickson.

Additionally, retailers have begun bundling free BD players with the purchase of like-branded high-def 1080p TV sets. Such promotions were started in earnest during the fourth quarter and continue into 2008. The deals are thought to be a key reason for BD’s sales dominance over HD DVD early this year.

On the heels of Warner Bros. Entertainment’s beginning of 2008 announcement about dropping its HD DVD support, Blu-ray set-tops dominated 90% of all high-def hardware unit sales for the week ended Jan. 12, according to the NPD Group. HD DVD set-tops represented 7% and dual-format players totaled 3% of sales during that seven-day frame.

Too bad they don't bother to mention that the 90% Blu-ray "sales" were because the players were FREE with HDTVs. Take away all those free Blu-ray players and I'm willing to bet that HD DVD players still far exceeded actual Blu-ray player sales.

Too bad they don't bother to mention that the "90%" Blu-ray sales were because the players were FREE with HDTVs.

Why does it matter?

Too bad they don't bother to mention that the 90% Blu-ray "sales" were because the players were FREE with HDTVs. Take away all those free Blu-ray players and I'm willing to bet that HD DVD players still far exceeded actual Blu-ray player sales.

ugh!

Why does it matter?
Because HD DVD isn't going anywhere.

Too bad they don't bother to mention that the 90% Blu-ray "sales" were because the players were FREE with HDTVs.
It mentions it right in the third paragraph. Try reading the article next time before posting.
Additionally, retailers have begun bundling free BD players with the purchase of like-branded high-def 1080p TV sets. Such promotions were started in earnest during the fourth quarter and continue into 2008. The deals are thought to be a key reason for BD’s sales dominance over HD DVD early this year.

The most important thing is getting players into peoples' homes and growing the user base. Doesn't matter how it's done. You can slash your prices and have a firesale or you can bundle them with a HDTV. Higher priced BD players outsold the cheap Toshiba players in December and we're seeing that carry over into the new year. I can see how some might be bitter by that.

It mentions it right in the third paragraph. Try reading the article next time before posting.
I did, and they don't mention that the 90% Blu-ray "sales" were because of the FREE players.

I did, and they don't mention that the 90% Blu-ray "sales" were because of the FREE players.
Please tell us how you arrived at the "90%" figure. It's true that some portion of the 90% were bundled "free" players, but I don't know how you expect them to give us an exact figure.

Actually, I love how the article says that the format war drove HIGHER adoption despite everyone saying that the format war (not high prices) is killing HDM.

I did, and they don't mention that the 90% Blu-ray "sales" were because of the FREE players.

So what?

The most important thing is getting players into peoples' homes and growing the user base. Doesn't matter how it's done. You can slash your prices and have a firesale or you can bundle them with a HDTV.
Exactly, which is why Toshiba reduced the MSRP to the point where everyone can easily afford a great HD DVD player.

Higher priced BD players outsold the cheap Toshiba players in December and we're seeing that carry over into the new year. I can see how some might be bitter by that.
You mean the free players? I don't call free Blu-ray players "outselling" HD DVD players, sorry. All those owners of these free Blu-ray players are gonna be a little upset when hey come face to face with the fact that they are only profile 1.0 compliant.

Exactly, which is why Toshiba reduced the MSRP to the point where everyone can easily afford a great HD DVD player.

That's why Sony, Panasonic and Sharp bundled their players with HDTVs so everyone can easily (for FREE) afford a great Blu-ray player.

I know a lot of people have been questioning the growth rate of HDM compared to standard DVD (many saying that neither HDM format will "win").

Well you will be pleased to hear that HDM is actually being adopted at a faster rate than DVD was.

Link (http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6525812)


Look, even when there is no more dvd's and HDM has completely taken over, according to many on this forum it will always be niche, or die especially if it is BD. p0tempkin, please stop posting truths on this forum, because they might actually become reality even for the naysayers. :rolleyes:

Why would any of us, who have wanted so long for HDM to be the standard, want it to become mass adopted and replace dvds. They would make too much sense. :rolleyes:


I will stick with DVD as I am stubborn and like crap quality. Not to mention the fact that Sony, MS, Toshiba and the other CE companies want it to fail so they don't make money and go out of business.

Because HD DVD isn't going anywhere.

You mean growth wise? BD is currently outpacing HD DVD in that regarrd.

MidnightWatcher,

Could we please have proof that 90% of the players were "free"?

Thanks

P.S. when are you going to take Warner out of your signature? Before or after they drop HD DVD?

Because HD DVD isn't going anywhere.

At this point, I wonder if the format war would officially be over if you went on my ignore list? :p

You mean growth wise?

:eek:

:D

At this point, I wonder if the format war would officially be over if you went on my ignore list? :p


He does seem to be the last hardcore very outspoken die hard that doesn't want to let go. Ahh..but he might by default. :D

That's why Sony, Panasonic and Sharp bundled their players with HDTVs so everyone can easily (for FREE) afford a great Blu-ray player.
The majority of which had no intention on buying a Blu-ray player I'm sure.

I guess if they took $300 - $400 off the price of those HDTV's and those people bought Blu-ray players the HD-DVD guys would sleep better at night...

Too bad they don't bother to mention that the 90% Blu-ray "sales" were because the players were FREE with HDTVs. Take away all those free Blu-ray players and I'm willing to bet that HD DVD players still far exceeded actual Blu-ray player sales.

Way to turn this thread into a flame war.

The point of this article/thread was to show how much faster HDM is being accepted as compared to DVD, not a fight about how the HD players are sold. It's good to know that even though HDM is only 2% of the market, it's catching on faster than the preceding format.

The majority of which had no intention on buying a Blu-ray player I'm sure.

Doesn't matter. Those folks now have a high-definition player in their living room.

You think they would pony up $100 for ANOTHER player with less studio support?

MidnightWatcher,

Could we please have proof that 90% of the players were "free"?

Thanks
http://www.betanews.com/article/print/NPD_Free_Bluray_player_deals_led_to_boosted_sales_this_month/1201203983

P.S. when are you going to take Warner out of your signature? Before or after they drop HD DVD?
In June.

You think they would pony up $100 for ANOTHER player with less studio support?
For a better player than what they got for free, yes.

The most important thing is getting players into peoples' homes and growing the user base. Doesn't matter how it's done. You can slash your prices and have a firesale or you can bundle them with a HDTV. Higher priced BD players outsold the cheap Toshiba players in December and we're seeing that carry over into the new year. I can see how some might be bitter by that.Actually they didn't until just recently. THe sold more BD discs, though. About 60-40 for the last quarter of 2007. Then again, the two camp's studios had about 60-40 share of DVD, too, so it wasn't the format so much as the studios.

Way to turn this thread into a flame war.

The point of this article/thread was to show how much faster HDM is being accepted as compared to DVD, not a fight about how the HD players are sold. It's good to know that even though HDM is only 2% of the market, it's catching on faster than the preceding format.
If the NPD felt the need to clarify the data, don't you think we all should when an article such as the one that the OP points to comes along?

You mean the free players? I don't call free Blu-ray players "outselling" HD DVD players, sorry. All those owners of these free Blu-ray players are gonna be a little upset when hey come face to face with the fact that they are only profile 1.0 compliant.
When they find out they'll have access to 70-75% of the HD market, they won't mind. Now those on the other end that only get 20-25%, I'm not sure how happy they'll be.

For a better player than what they got for free, yes.

J6P has a Blu-ray hi-def player, either it was free, it's on his PS3, or he bought it.
J6P buys "Superman Returns," "Pirates," "Spider-Man" or whatever else he can get his hands on.
J6P puts in his movie, it plays beautifully, and he's able to watch all the DVD extras.

At what point does J6P believe that HD-DVD is the better player?

http://www.betanews.com/article/print/NPD_Free_Bluray_player_deals_led_to_boosted_sales_this_month/1201203983


In June.

err, where does that article say that 90% of players were given away for free. Is this what you were talking about? It certainly doesn't say 90


"Sharp Blu-ray players accounted for over 30% of sales, as they were offered free to buyers of the company's LCD televisions."

At this point, I wonder if the format war would officially be over if you went on my ignore list? :p
Not by a long shot (http://www.dailygame.net/news/archives/007137.php), my friend.

But back to the topic:

In the last quarter of 2007, the two formats were neck and neck in sales, and sales were good.

Now that HD DVD is dying, are its 1 million+ buyers going to convert to Blu-ray or are they done? After all, blu costs more and they may not want to throw good money after bad. Some will opt out. Fool me once...

So, with at least some of these former HDM buyers out of the market, will HDM continue to grow? Or will it become more of a high-income niche thing like videodisc?

When they find out they'll have access to 70-75% of the HD market, they won't mind. Now those on the other end that only get 20-25%, I'm not sure how happy they'll be.
And when they find out that some titles/players still have BD-J and BD+ problems, they will mind. As an HD DVD owner, I am extremely happy. :)

And when they find out that some titles/players still have BD-J and BD+ problems, they will mind. As an HD DVD owner, I am extremely happy. :)

You sound more bitter to me

But back to the topic:

In the last quarter of 2007, the two formats were neck and neck in sales, and sales were good.

Now that HD DVD is dying, are its 1 million+ buyers going to convert to Blu-ray or are they done? After all, blu costs more and they may not want to throw good money after bad. Some will opt out. Fool me once...

So, with at least some of these former HDM buyers out of the market, will HDM continue to grow? Or will it become more of a high-income niche thing like videodisc?

One million people is 0.1% of the worlds population, and I bet some of them are purple and some will turn blu. If you can't afford to pay $300 for a Blu-ray player then you're probably living in the 0-19000 income bracket...

But back to the topic:

In the last quarter of 2007, the two formats were neck and neck in sales, and sales were good.

Now that HD DVD is dying, are its 1 million+ buyers going to convert to Blu-ray or are they done? After all, blu costs more and they may not want to throw good money after bad. Some will opt out. Fool me once...

So, with at least some of these former HDM buyers out of the market, will HDM continue to grow? Or will it become more of a high-income niche thing like videodisc?
I would argue that although HD DVD suffered a bit of a setback, it is not dying. Over 1 million dedicated HD DVD players have been sold and are STILL being sold (with the recent price drop sales are very brisk, in fact HD DVD players are top sellers on Amazon.com. Robert Zohn stated recently that even AFTER Warner's announcement his sales of high-def players were 80% HD DVD). The overwhelming majority are still buying HD DVD titles and will continue to do so. You want Universal movies in high-def? You want Paramount movies, or films from DreamWorks in high-def? Get HD DVD and be happy!

You sound more bitter to me
Hey, I'm not happy that Warner went with Blu-ray, just as Blu-ray owners were not happy when Paramount went with HD DVD.

Too bad they don't bother to mention that the 90% Blu-ray "sales" were because the players were FREE with HDTVs. Take away all those free Blu-ray players and I'm willing to bet that HD DVD players still far exceeded actual Blu-ray player sales.

So you're assuming EVERY BD player was giving away with the purchase of an HDTV, ummm ok.

Even if that were true, how is that any different than Toshiba's fire sale a little while ago where the HD-A2 was only $99 with a bunch of FREE movies? That's also practically giving away the players (except you didn't have to drop $1000+ for an HDTV first). Didn't hear you complaining there, since it's all about getting players into peoples homes.

And when they find out that some titles/players still have BD-J and BD+ problems, they will mind. As an HD DVD owner, I am extremely happy. :)

What's BD-J, BD+ problems? The only problem with them is the load times on the older players (new players load really fast). But once loaded, it's flawless.

Not like HD-DVD is free of problems. My HD-A1 stutters occasionally even after many firmware updates. I haven't had 1 freeze or stutter with any of my BDs. Goto the HD-A35 forum in here and nearly every person is having problems with their players.

err, where does that article say that 90% of players were given away for free. Is this what you were talking about? It certainly doesn't say 90


"Sharp Blu-ray players accounted for over 30% of sales, as they were offered free to buyers of the company's LCD televisions."
:confused::confused::confused:

Okay let's actually read it.

"So what went on the week ending January 12 that led to such high numbers in Blu-ray standalone player sales? Bundling deals with HDTVs, explained Baker. Sharp Blu-ray players accounted for over 30% of sales, as they were offered free to buyers of the company's LCD televisions.

Sony -- also accounting for one-third of sales -- had a similar $400-off deal for Blu-ray players when buying a Sony HDTV.

Panasonic, like Sharp, offered a free Blu-ray player and made up for the remaining third of units sold. Samsung Blu-ray sales were almost non-existent, as the company did not offer any special deals to TV buyers."Okay, so 1/3 plus 1/3 plus 1/3 means that virtually all Blu-ray standalone players were FREE. And as for the Samsung Blu-ray players that were not free, well, those "sales were almost non-existent."

Even if that were true, how is that any different than Toshiba's fire sale a little while ago where the HD-A2 was only $99 with a bunch of FREE movies? That's also practically giving away the players (except you didn't have to drop $1000+ for an HDTV first). Didn't hear you complaining there, since it's all about getting players into peoples homes.
It was Walmart that did this, not Toshiba. The free Blu-ray players were directly from Sharp, Sony and Panasonic.

Not like HD-DVD is free of problems. My HD-A1 stutters occasionally even after many firmware updates. I haven't had 1 freeze or stutter with any of my BDs. Goto the HD-A35 forum in here and nearly every person is having problems with their players.
Uh huh.

The overwhelming majority are still buying HD DVD titles and will continue to do so.
ah, that explains why the market share for HD DVD was 17% last week and 15% the week before. Somehow BD managed to add a couple of points to the Since Inception numbers too. I'd hate to see the numbers when the overwhelming majority isn't buying HD DVD titles.

:confused::confused::confused:

Okay let's actually read it.


Okay, so 1/3 plus 1/3 plus 1/3 means that virtually all Blu-ray standalone players were FREE. And as for the Samsung Blu-ray players that were not free, well, those "sales were almonst non-existent."

Proves the trojan horse strategy is more successful than heavy discounting, IMO.

Hey, I'm not happy that Warner went with Blu-ray, just as Blu-ray owners were not happy when Paramount went with HD DVD.

Your disappointment is understandable. But it does no more good to complain about blu-rays given away with HD tvs than it does to complain about $99 subsidized players from toshiba. It's the totals that matters. No referee is going to call it back and force a replay because you disapprove of the tactics

http://www.betanews.com/article/print/NPD_Free_Bluray_player_deals_led_to_boosted_sales_this_month/1201203983


In June.

Thanks for that informative article that cleary DOESN'T state that 90% of SA sales were "free" players. Do you think that the forum wouldn't bother to read your link?????

Please try again.......

ah, that explains why the market share for HD DVD was 17% last week and 15% the week before. Somehow BD managed to add a couple of points to the Since Inception numbers too. I'd hate to see the numbers when the overwhelming majority isn't buying HD DVD titles.
ah, no. There were a few who's knee-jerk reaction was to sell their HD DVD player and HD DVD movies. We've been enjoying some great deals on HD DVD titles. Believe me, with all the new HD DVD players being sold HD DVD software sales will rebound, especially when titles such as American Gangster, Bee Movie and Beowulf and others are released.

Proves the trojan horse strategy is more successful than heavy discounting, IMO.
If Toshiba, Universal and Paramount play their cards right, they'll have a few trojan horses of their own.

Your disappointment is understandable. But it does no more good to complain about blu-rays given away with HD tvs than it does to complain about $99 subsidized players from toshiba. It's the totals that matters. No referee is going to call it back and force a replay because you disapprove of the tactics
Again, Toshiba did not do the $99 A2 deal. That was strictly Walmart. Let's stick to facts.

ah, no. There were a few who's knee-jerk reaction was to sell their HD DVD player and HD DVD movies. We've been enjoying some great deals on HD DVD titles. Believe me, with all the new HD DVD players being sold HD DVD software sales will rebound, especially when titles such as American Gangster, Bee Movie and Beowulf and others are released.

If you are wrong will you come out and say you support bluray??

Lets see how dedicated you really are.

ah, no. There were a few who's knee-jerk reaction was to sell their HD DVD player and HD DVD movies. We've been enjoying some great deals on HD DVD titles. Believe me, with all the new HD DVD players being sold HD DVD software sales will rebound, especially when titles such as American Gangster, Bee Movie and Beowulf and others are released.

They'll get a slight bump from three titles but not even Shrek the Third HD DVD was a huge seller and that movie did much, much better at the box office than Bee Movie.

Remember: the Blu-ray camp has "National Treasure," "No Country For Old Men," "Juno," "I Am Legend" (three weeks early) on their side, too...

Thanks for that informative article that cleary DOESN'T state that 90% of SA sales were "free" players. Do you think that the forum wouldn't bother to read your link?????

Please try again.......
Go back and re-read it, specifically the part about Sharp accounting for 1/3 of free players, Sony accounting for 1/3 and Panasonic accounting for the other third.

If Toshiba, Universal and Paramount play their cards right, they'll have a few trojan horses of their own.

You're operating under the assumption that Universal and Paramount feel that it is their job to make HD-DVD succeed. The studios aren't going to stick their
neck out for a format that is all but dead. Thats Toshiba's job.

Btw, Id put money down that Paramount will come back to blu by April at latest.

As for Universal, who knows...

TAKE THAT TO THE BANK.

If you are wrong will you come out and say you support bluray??

Lets see how dedicated you really are.
No, HD DVD is the only high-def format I will purchase (or downloads for my media center). I will not buy Blu-ray movies, at the very most they'll be rentals, but nothing more.

They'll get a slight bump from three titles but not even Shrek the Third HD DVD was a huge seller and that movie did much, much better at the box office than Bee Movie.

Remember: the Blu-ray camp has "National Treasure," "No Country For Old Men," "Juno," "I Am Legend" (three weeks early) on their side, too...
Sure, just as Blu-ray will have great titles, so will HD DVD.

Too bad they don't bother to mention that the 90% Blu-ray "sales" were because the players were FREE with HDTVs. Take away all those free Blu-ray players and I'm willing to bet that HD DVD players still far exceeded actual Blu-ray player sales.Well last I checked stand alone Blu-ray players outsold stand alone HD DVD players in the month of December and in the first two weeks of January. Also MidnightWatcher do you have any evidence of how many of those players were bundled and how many were sold or did you just make that number up?


Because HD DVD isn't going anywhere.We will see but with 4 of the 6 major studios exclusive to Blu-ray and the vast majority of the CE industry behind Blu-ray it looks like 2008 is going to be a great year for Blu-ray.


You mean the free players? I don't call free Blu-ray players "outselling" HD DVD players, sorry.So subsizing stand alone HD DVD players is great but bundling stand alone Blu-ray players is horrible? Also last I checked Toshiba bundled stand alone HD DVD players last year with their LCDs.


Not by a long shot (http://www.dailygame.net/news/archives/007137.php), my friend.Here is an earlier post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12926154#post12926154) I made about the Daily Game article:

I have seen some pretty misleading HD DVD articles posted on third rate websites but this one has become fairly popular among HD DVD promoters who have been going around posting the Daily Game article (http://www.dailygame.net/news/archives/007137.php) even though it looks like a Toshiba press release. The Daily Game quotes obviously came from a Toshiba employee and besides it constantly mentioning Toshiba this quote shows that it wasn't from the NPD:

We want to remind you and make clear that it is not accurate to make long term assumptions based on one week of sales -- a cautionary point that NPD has made as well.

You mean the free players? I don't call free Blu-ray players "outselling" HD DVD players, sorry. All those owners of these free Blu-ray players are gonna be a little upset when hey come face to face with the fact that they are only profile 1.0 compliant.

Not nearly as upset as the people buying Toshiba and discovering in a few months it's nothing but an overpriced upconverter with no native media available anymore.

Sure, just as Blu-ray will have great titles, so will HD DVD.

But for every good HD DVD out there, there will be two or three Blu-ray titles to match that.

Can't watch Bee Movie or Shrek the Third? Get Ratatouille, Cars, Pixar's Short Films, Ice Age, Ice Age 2. Can't watch Transformers? Get Spider-Man, Pirates, Live Free or Die Hard.

And so on...

Why would anyone go for that ratio?

Not nearly as upset as the people buying Toshiba and discovering in a few months it's nothing but an overpriced upconverter with no native media available anymore.
There are still plenty of exclusive coming out for HD DVD.

But for every good HD DVD out there, there will be two or three Blu-ray titles to match that.

Can't watch Bee Movie or Shrek the Third? Get Ratatouille, Cars, Pixar's Short Films, Ice Age, Ice Age 2. Can't watch Transformers? Get Spider-Man, Pirates, Live Free or Die Hard.

And so on...

Why would anyone go for that ratio?
Why would anyone not buy an HD DVD player for $129 and 7 free HD DVD movies? :rolleyes:

Sure, just as Blu-ray will have great titles, so will HD DVD.

Yes, both will have some great titles.

And they'll be sold in a ratio of ~85:15

I don't know if your grapes are sour enough yet, MidnightWatcher. You should add some lemon juice to them to make them even more sour.

Why would anyone not buy an HD DVD player for $129 and 7 free HD DVD movies? :rolleyes:

Because they believe the format is essentially dead. The sales numbers lately seem to back them up

There are still plenty of exclusive coming out for HD DVD.

For now. But I don't believe there will be any exclusives within a few months (as in less than six), and no software available at all within a year.

Well last I checked stand alone Blu-ray players outsold stand alone HD DVD players in the month of December and in the first two weeks of January. Also MidnightWatcher do you have any evidence of how many of those players were bundled and how many were sold or did you just make that number up?
Sure, Richard, keep telling yourself that. Take away the free Blu-ray players and HD DVD outsold Blu-ray I'm sure. The fact that The NPD Group felt they had to come out and clarify a few things speaks volumes.

We will see but with 4 of the 6 major studios exclusive to Blu-ray and the vast majority of the CE industry behind Blu-ray it looks like 2008 is going to be a great year for Blu-ray.
Things can change on a dime in this industry. Sure, it looks like it'll be good for Blu-ray, but HD DVD will see growth as well.

So subsizing stand alone HD DVD players is great but bundling stand alone Blu-ray players is horrible? Also last I checked Toshiba bundled stand alone HD DVD players last year with their LCDs.
Trying to claim that Blu-ray players outsold HD DVD is where the problem is. As I've said, take away the free players and HD DVD would win hands-down imo.

Here is an earlier post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12926154#post12926154) I made about the Daily Game article:
And how do you know that it wasn't Toshiba that was quoting The NPD Group? The fact remains that the data was misconstrued, and if The NPD Group clarified a few items that were misconstrued against my company due to the misuse of their data, I'd want to quote them too.

Yes, both will have some great titles.

And they'll be sold in a ratio of ~85:15
You're only kidding yourself if you think that ratios will always be 85:15. It will pick up.

Because they believe the format is essentially dead. The sales numbers lately seem to back them up
Ah yes, those freebies ...

Because HD DVD isn't going anywhere.


i think he might be referring to their market growth? :eek:

I, for one, am really glad to see that High-Def is doing so well - the faster people adopt it, the faster prices will drop for software and the more titles studios will release. I'm not satisfied with DVD anymore and I want HD to take off in sales and become a mass market format like DVD quickly became. Everyone I have shown HD movies on disc to has wanted one - and these are 'regular' people and not early adopters - nor do they know much about a format 'war' - the idea of higher bitrate, or even lossless, sound doesn't matter at all to them, but the absolutely stunning picture quality does. They've liked the advanced menuing systems too. The studios need to get better titles out there - Except for a few films like Close Encounters..., not one of my friends has asked about titles that are currently available on Blu/HDVD - nor expressed much enthusiasm when shown what has been released so far - they all want stuff like Jurassic Park, Fantasia, Gone With The Wind, Raiders Of The Lost Ark, The Bond films (Bond Meets Black Emanuel:)), etc...

i think he might be referring to their market growth? :eek:
Re-read the thread.

You're only kidding yourself if you think that ratios will always be 85:15. It will pick up.

When will it pick up? to what amount?

When will it pick up? to what amount?
Over time, and only time will tell. But if this poll (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=983025) is any indication, it should be picking up quite soon. There is still incredible support for HD DVD! :D

Midnightwatcher is one of the biggest HDDVD fanboys on the net. When Paramount and Dreamworks went HDDVD exclusive he spammed the Blu-ray Member Review Section for each of their titles saying "This title is now HD DVD exclusive". It seems he cant see a thread that puts some positive spin on Blu-ray without crapping on it.

Anal-ogy:

HD DVD is to BD as Midnight is to other AVSers in this thread and that tells the story.

I said it when someone else said they got a "free" BD player or HD DVD player. I asked how much was the tv? He paid full retail on a tv I know beyond a doubt could be had for 400.00 or more off.
This is what is happening in many cases. Deals cannot be combined etc. When all is said and done the old motto "nothing is free" applies. When they left the factory, were shipped over, inventoried and eventually SOLD, it counts as a sale, no matter how free the consumer 'thinks' it is.

You never save money by spending money and your never get anything free like this deal mentioned without spending money.

You're only kidding yourself if you think that ratios will always be 85:15. It will pick up.

No, I don't think it will always be 85:15. I think it will be much more lopsided within a couple of months. It will break 90 by the end of February and 95 by June.

Over time, and only time will tell. But if this poll (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=983025) is any indication, it should be picking up quite soon. There is still incredible support for HD DVD! :D

How is a poll in an HD DVD biased forum, where Blu-ray is winning the poll, somehow proof that there will be an upturn in HD DVD sales?

I'm still not sure if people like you, GizmoDVD and rdjam are serious or joking -- you (all) display some of the most backwards logic as to why things will happen and in the face of facts you blindly ignore them or twist them however you want. I would like to believe you guys are just being silly to get under people's skin (it gets frustrating correcting the poor logic and rampant misinformation), but I'm afraid you guys are actually serious. Hopefully in a couple months when the dust has settled you guys will all come out and say the joke was on us...

MidnightWatcher,

Could we please have proof that 90% of the players were "free"?

Thanks

P.S. when are you going to take Warner out of your signature? Before or after they drop HD DVD?

Written by Bill Hunt:

"As you can see, Blu-ray Disc players outsold HD-DVD players in the month of December here in the States by about a 60/40 margin, and that split has grown to 70/30 in favor of Blu-ray in the first half of January. This despite the fact that HD-DVD players were (on average) some $200 cheaper than Blu-ray players throughout the holiday shopping season."

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa149.html#npd

Well, I can pretty much guarantee you that Blu-Ray players weren't $200 more expensive than HD DVD players despite what Bill Hunt says. You can't charge $400-$500 for something, count it as a $400-$500 sales revenue, and then take $400-$500 off the price, and not call it FREE, which is definitely not $200 more than a HD DVD player. I can pretty much guarantee that NPD did not take kindly to the FUD Bill Hunt is spreading, and that is why they took the very unusual step of speaking up publicly about him misusing their data to spread propaganda lies. Only when Bill Hunt spreads proganda, people have the right to speak up and say he is full of it, unlike when you see a Michael Moore "documentary" in the movie theater.

You sound more bitter to me
One more thing ... "The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet" - Aristotle

Because HD DVD isn't going anywhere.

Frankly, I think you're nuts! Seek help! It's only a a piece of plastic to watch movies on. :rolleyes:

Over time, and only time will tell. But if this poll (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=983025) is any indication, it should be picking up quite soon. There is still incredible support for HD DVD! :D

not very specific. Since I started paying attention, I have heard many very bad predictions by HDDVD supporters thought I don't remember you specifically. They were mostly the result of wishful thinking all around. Perhaps you are the one with the clearest crystal ball. But you refuse to help me. On the predictions thread last week i low-balled the blu-ray success and only guessed a 79 percent trouncing.

It doesn't do much good to be so vague. How will you ever know when you're basic assumptions are wrong? Every week things could get a little worse, like a frog in hot water and your position could become ridiculous. Maybe it is already

You want Universal movies in high-def? You want Paramount movies, or films from DreamWorks in high-def? Get HD DVD and be happy!Personally I am happy with Blu-ray and the advantages it has are important to me. As such I am not going to support a video format with lower specs just because it has a few remaining studios some of which are likely to start supporting Blu-ray this year.


Okay, so 1/3 plus 1/3 plus 1/3 means that virtually all Blu-ray standalone players were FREE. And as for the Samsung Blu-ray players that were not free, well, those "sales were almost non-existent."MidnightWatcher, the betanews article (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12925656&postcount=236) was just a badly mangled version of an earlier Twice article and what NPD said was that around 84% of sales (http://www.twice.com/article/ca6524995.html) were of the 3 players that were being offered in bundles with displays. We don't know though how many of those players were sold and how many were bundled. Also despite betanews statement that "Samsung Blu-ray sales were almost non-existent" they were 6% of the market compared to all stand alone HD DVD players which were 7% of the market.

Let's be clear though that the NPD was not accusing FUD being thrown around, they were merely clarifying that we can't jump to conclusions yet. The numbers were released prematurely without that asterik talking about the free bundles.

They need to walk on broken glass as any hint of inaccurate data would throw their whole credibility out the window.

Software sales are still very much in Blu-ray's favor and will continue to do so. This will get Paramount/Dreamworks/Universal thinking Blu, in which case, a million people will have a really nice upconverting player devoid of any new content.

not very specific. Since I started paying attention, I have heard many very bad predictions by HDDVD supporters thought I don't remember you specifically. They were mostly the result of wishful thinking all around. Perhaps you are the one with the clearest crystal ball. But you refuse to help me. On the predictions thread last week i low-balled the blu-ray success and only guessed a 79 percent trouncing.

It doesn't do much good to be so vague. How will you ever know when you're basic assumptions are wrong? Every week things could get a little worse, like a frog in hot water and your position could become ridiculous. Maybe it is already
What?

We should just report MidnightWatcher's posts, since they have nothing to do with the original topic (HDM growth rates), and have led this thread off-topic.

Also, if you go to your "UserCP", you can add MidnightWatcher to your "Ignore" list so his troll posts won't muck up the conversation.

Back to the original topic!

One more thing ... "The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet" - Aristotle

How about this quote,

"Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience." - Warner Brothers

Why does it matter?


It only matters if you're interested in facts that reveal a true picture of why something happened. Of course there are some that don't want to know and don't want others to know either.

How about this quote,

"Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience." - Warner Brothers
Pay me a few hundred million and I'll lie, too.

Let's be clear though that the NPD was not accusing FUD being thrown around, they were merely clarifying that we can't jump to conclusions yet. The numbers were released prematurely without that asterik talking about the free bundles.

They need to walk on broken glass as any hint of inaccurate data would throw their whole credibility out the window.

Software sales are still very much in Blu-ray's favor and will continue to do so. This will get Paramount/Dreamworks/Universal thinking Blu, in which case, a million people will have a really nice upconverting player devoid of any new content.

Bill Hunt's article clearly stated that Blu-Ray players were selling for $200 more than HD DVD players in December -- this is just a number he made up. In December, the Profile 1.0 players were on sale (clearance) for $300 at Best Buy, and the HD-A3 was selling for $300 at Best Buy. Blu-Ray player manufacturers were also bundling their players with 1080p HDTV's in the 4th quarter (and December).

Toshiba sold about 6,000 HD DVD players the week before Thanksgiving. About 7,000 Blu-Ray players were sold the week before Thanskgiving.

"HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc stand-alone players sold 57,000 units during the week ended Nov. 24, the day marking the official kick-off to the holiday season...

HD DVD commanded the lion’s share of unit sales for stand-alone high-def disc players, scoring a 62% unit share; Blu-ray held 37%...

Each format significantly hiked its sales from week directly preceding the Black Friday frame. HD DVD unit sales jumped 454%; Blu-ray, up 189%."

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6510883.html?nid=3511

I appreciate the Aristotle quote, but I'm the one who said you sounded bitter while you were the one who said you were happy before admitting to you unhappiness with the warner decision. Perhaps something about loved and lost would be more appropriate
lol, well, Blu-ray owners can still say the same about Paramount. :)

lol, well, Blu-ray owners can still say the same about Paramount. :)

No loved lost there, that bitch will come groveling back. Maybe a late night booty call, but only if sony is really drunk.

This is the type of ignorance that has no business in these threads. The bundled players were mentioned in the article, you have zero evidence to back up your assertions, and you still post them in the thread as if they are facts. This is bound to ruin a perfectly good thread (topic: HDM growing at faster pace than DVD...inherently positive article for HDM) and get it locked down eventually. There is no excuse for this type of trollish behavior with the new rules in place.

Leave the rabid and irrational cheerleading or format bashing stuff out of this. It's time to move on from that and have legitimate, intelligent discussions/debates. BD players were being bundled with TVs before* the week in question, and even if they weren't, to assume 100% of the 90% were bundled is ludicrous without evidence to back it up.

*support for my claim (http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/10/panasonic-to-bundle-discounted-blu-ray-players-with-plasmas-t/)

Brandon
So how many unbundled players do you think were sold? With evidence.

http://www.betanews.com/article/print/NPD_Free_Bluray_player_deals_led_to_boosted_sales_this_month/1201203983


Wasn't that article already discredited?

The article with numbers confirmed by NPD http://www.twice.com/article/CA6524995.html?q=blu%2Dray

34%+27%+23% (total 84%) for Sony, Panasonic, and Sharp, respectively, the ones running the promotions. So where is this 90% you keep spewing? Please show your work.

So how many unbundled players do you think were sold? With evidence.

I have made no assertions about how many players were sold, that's the point of it. This thread isn't about how many players were bundled. Why can't we stay on topic rather than turning this into a flame session?

Brandon

How about this quote,

"Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience." - Warner BrothersHis statement is baloney; Blu-ray's position as of January 1st was mainly due to Sony's gamble of sacrificing the gaming console market to win the nascent HDM market.

And the fact that HDM is now an expensive-to-replicate console format helps explain why, despite HDM player sales being healthier than those of DVD at that stage of the latter's acceptance, there are fewer titles available on the former and mostly of genres appealing to 15-to-35-year-old males. Which is why it took me weeks to find even ONE Blu-ray title worth buying (I needed a test disc) and most of my purchases and rentals remain SDVD.

We should just report MidnightWatcher's posts, since they have nothing to do with the original topic (HDM growth rates), and have led this thread off-topic.

I agree. He's basically trolling at this point to ensure the thread gets locked. The sad thing is this article is positive for both formats in principle.

Brandon

No, HD DVD is the only high-def format I will purchase (or downloads for my media center). I will not buy Blu-ray movies, at the very most they'll be rentals, but nothing more.

Such dogmatic fanaticism over such a trivial thing needs to be studied, carefully out there.

Reminds me sort of that Bjork stalker guy.

Such dogmatic fanaticism over such a trivial thing needs to be studied, carefully out there.

Reminds me sort of that Bjork stalker guy.
Dogmatic, maybe. Fanatic, hardly. Blu-ray is a poorly implemented, poorly conceived disc technology imo. Having it rammed down the collective throat of consumers doesn't make bad food taste good. Just my opinion.

Dogmatic, maybe. Fanatic, hardly. Blu-ray is a poorly implemented, poorly conceived disc technology imo. Having it rammed down the collective throat of consumers doesn't make bad food taste good. Just my opinion.

I love this quote, I enjoy reading it from HD DVD fans. Who is ramming this stuff down who's throats? Last time I checked we live in a free country and have the ability to make our own decisions? When someone buys a ps3 or a blu-ray player that is their decision, no one is forcing them to do this. No one forces them to watch the movies or even buy the movies for that matter. How is blu-ray a poorly conceived disc technology? Last I checked it holds more memory then a HD DVD. Not to mention BD discs can handle better sound cause of the size of the disc. I have followed a lot of your posts and they are CLEARLY ALWAYS one sided.

At the topic at hand, this is good news for blu-ray backers that all think blu-ray will eventually take over DVD within the next 2-3 years as a standard.

Dogmatic, maybe. Fanatic, hardly. Blu-ray is a poorly implemented, poorly conceived disc technology imo. Having it rammed down the collective throat of consumers doesn't make bad food taste good. Just my opinion.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. All the issues with the multiple Profiles and the staged implementation of added features like PiP and Internet are things which are added to the disc as software. An upgradable player like the PS3 can and does add the new Profiles as software updates.

The physical disc technology of Blu-ray is superior to HD DVD, considering it stores up to 50GB as opposed to 30GB and has a maximum bitrate of 48mbps as opposed to 36mbps. The conception of Blu-ray is perfect, as it was designed from Day 1 to be a recordable format and there are already plenty of 6x BD-R burners out there which prove its flexibility as a movie storage and recordable format.

Such dogmatic fanaticism over such a trivial thing needs to be studied, carefully out there.
No doubt. It is interesting, the passion for and dogged defense of a video and audio delivery system. He would make a good subject for study, I agree.

I love this quote, I enjoy reading it from HD DVD fans. Who is ramming this stuff down who's throats? Last time I checked we live in a free country and have the ability to make our own decisions?
Really? Then why aren't all studios neutral? :rolleyes:

Dogmatic, maybe. Fanatic, hardly. Blu-ray is a poorly implemented, poorly conceived disc technology imo. Having it rammed down the collective throat of consumers doesn't make bad food taste good. Just my opinion.
Then just opt out, man. Don't buy it. Stop being such a Debbie Downer.

Sure, Richard, keep telling yourself that. Take away the free Blu-ray players and HD DVD outsold Blu-ray I'm sure.MidnightWatcher, I know you are sure about that but that doesn't mean you are right which is why I am asking for evidence.


And how do you know that it wasn't Toshiba that was quoting The NPD Group?Because the NPD Group wouldn't promote one format over the other, wouldn't promote Toshiba's marketing, and wouldn't refer to itself as a different company? Come on if you weren't so eager to believe the worst about Blu-ray you would have noticed that the article was fishy.


Oh yeah, we've all seen in the real world just how superior the PQ and AQ is because of the "better specs".Personally speaking I believe that Blu-ray is the better AV format and no one can dispute that lossless audio is far more common on Blu-ray.


I see, so just because the BetaNews article cuts through the Blu-ray FUD you don't like what it says and call it "badly mangled."MidnightWatcher, the reason I call it badly mangled is because it is less accurate than the Twice article and if you didn't have such a negative view of Blu-ray maybe you would see that the Twice article is more accurate and objective than the articles you keep quoting.


The only thing badly mangled are incessant lies (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12902725#post12902725) from the BDA.MidnightWatcher, you seem to be completely ignoring this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12903900&postcount=5) that was made several days ago in that thread. Also you say that your not fanatical but you don't seem interested in fact checking any of the negative rumors you post against the BDA.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. All the issues with the multiple Profiles and the staged implementation of added features like PiP and Internet are things which are added to the disc as software. An upgradable player like the PS3 can and does add the new Profiles as software updates.

The physical disc technology of Blu-ray is superior to HD DVD, considering it stores up to 50GB as opposed to 30GB and has a maximum bitrate of 48mbps as opposed to 36mbps. The conception of Blu-ray is perfect, as it was designed from Day 1 to be a recordable format and there are already plenty of 6x BD-R burners out there which prove its flexibility as a movie storage and recordable format.
Superior? It STILL hasn't shown itself to be superior other than on paper. By the way, CEO Don Diotte of Venmill Industries (found in The Winnipeg Free Press, Page E5, Nov 15, 2006), who knows a thing or two about repairing discs, stated the following:

"Blu-Ray may hold more data than HD-DVD disks, but there is a trade-off. To fit more information on the disk, Sony had to reduce the thickness of the protective coating. Consequently, the discs are much more vulnerable to scratches, if left lying around the table for example.... In the USA there's a billion dollar buy-sell industry around computer games. I do not know how they're going to face the reality that Blu-Ray is an unrepairable format." I tried asking Blu-ray insiders whether or not there would ever be any possibility to repair a Blu-ray disc, and they don't seem to like that question. They had the question deleted a number of times. I have friends who scratched their PS3 game and Blu-ray movie. Guess what, using a repair kit didn't fix it (made it worse) and now they're SOL. They have to buy it over again if they want it.

Dogmatic, maybe. Fanatic, hardly. Blu-ray is a poorly implemented, poorly conceived disc technology imo. Having it rammed down the collective throat of consumers doesn't make bad food taste good. Just my opinion.

I have both, and I prefer BD. It wasn't 'rammed' down my throat either.

You've flat out stated you REFUSE to use BD. Yet you tell others to have both for all the movies. Take your own advice and buy a BD player. You'll have the other 75% of the movies out there, plus you'll get over this bizarre phobia you're going through when you find out it actually is a great format.

:confused::confused::confused:

Okay let's actually read it.

Okay, so 1/3 plus 1/3 plus 1/3 means that virtually all Blu-ray standalone players were FREE. And as for the Samsung Blu-ray players that were not free, well, those "sales were almost non-existent."

This was discussed at great length in a thread that was locked. The article simply does not say what you say it says. It provides zero information about how many sales were bundled and how many were not. If may have been many, perhaps most, but it just doesn't say one way or another. It is foolish to try to persuade people that something they can read for themselves says something it simply does not say.

Really? Then why aren't all studios neutral? :rolleyes:

What does that have to do with ramming stuff down people's throats? Just don't buy a blu-ray player that is all. When Paramount and Universal go Blu-ray don't buy their movies. Don't buy any movies. No one is ramming anything down your throat. You choose what to buy and what to watch. The studios not being neutral is all business, and that is life. Sometimes life sucks. In this instance, being a blu-ray supporter, life does not suck for me.

I, for one, am really glad to see that High-Def is doing so well - the faster people adopt it, the faster prices will drop for software and the more titles studios will release. I'm not satisfied with DVD anymore and I want HD to take off in sales and become a mass market format like DVD quickly became. Everyone I have shown HD movies on disc to has wanted one - and these are 'regular' people and not early adopters - nor do they know much about a format 'war' - the idea of higher bitrate, or even lossless, sound doesn't matter at all to them, but the absolutely stunning picture quality does. They've liked the advanced menuing systems too....

+1. It is gratifying to see HDM take off like this and I think we'll see more as HD-DVD dies, the Blu-Ray catalog passes 500 titles, stand-alone player sales increase (including bundling), PS3 sales increase with more and better games, HDTV sales continue, and prices drop. Let's see what happens over the next 12 months before we write the obituary of HDM.

Superior? It STILL hasn't shown itself to be superior other than on paper. By the way, CEO Don Diotte of Venmill Industries (found in The Winnipeg Free Press, Page E5, Nov 15, 2006), who knows a thing or two about repairing discs, stated the following:



Oh God, here it comes!

Not the repairable argument again!

How is this remotely on topic of this thread, or even an issue on any thread is beyond me.

I honestly have never had to take a CD or DVD to a repair service. I don't know

MidnightWatcher, I know you are sure about that but that doesn't mean you are right which is why I am asking for evidence.
Common sense, Richard.

Because the NPD Group wouldn't promote one format over the other, wouldn't promote Toshiba's marketing, and wouldn't refer to itself as a different company? Come on if you weren't so eager to believe the worst about Blu-ray you would have noticed that the article was fishy.
And if you weren't so eager to believe the worse about HD DVD you would have questioned the 'data' that was 'leaked.'

Personally speaking I believe that Blu-ray is the better AV format and no one can dispute that lossless audio is far more common on Blu-ray.
So what? Transformers on HD DVD, which is DD+, sounds better than some of the lossless tracks I've heard on both Blu-ray and HD DVD.

MidnightWatcher, the reason I call it badly mangled is because it is less accurate than the Twice article and if you didn't have such a negative view of Blu-ray maybe you would see that the Twice article is more accurate and objective than the articles you keep quoting.
Richard, you see what you want to see, just like everyone else.

MidnightWatcher, you seem to be completely ignoring this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12903900&postcount=5) that was made several days ago in that thread. Also you say that your not fanatical but you don't seem interested in fact checking any of the negative rumors you post against the BDA.
And you seem to be completely ignoring the fact that Senator still hasn't announced Blu-ray exclusivity.

What I love even more is the double standard here. HD DVD guys RAVED when their backed format dropped their prices under $100 and now you can pick up 3rd gen players for the same price. YET, if Blu-ray gives away players for free, they are cut throat and skewing the numbers. THEN, if people buy the players, they are over priced. When Blu-ray runs BOGO sales, they are cut throat and back dooring HD DVD. So which is it? Is blu-ray over priced or cheap or dirty or cut throat or....The bottom line is people don't like to lose, I know I don't. And if you backed something and put time and money into it and it loses you don't take it well sometimes.

What I love even more is the double standard here. HD DVD guys RAVED when their backed format dropped their prices under $100 and now you can pick up 3rd gen players for the same price. YET, if Blu-ray gives away players for free, they are cut throat and skewing the numbers. THEN, if people buy the players, they are over priced. When Blu-ray runs BOGO sales, they are cut throat and back dooring HD DVD. So which is it? Is blu-ray over priced or cheap or dirty or cut throat or....The bottom line is people don't like to lose, I know I don't. And if you backed something and put time and money into it and it loses you don't take it well sometimes.

To them Blu-ray's all evil. It's Satan in a format.

It is unfortuanate that a single individual can post dozens of times in a thread that is very much legitimate -- that HDM is doing as well or better than DVD at the same point -- in a (likely successful) attempt to get a thread locked. Perhaps warnings can be issued or posts deleted before a perfectly appropriate thread about an article regarding HDM adoption is locked.

I have both, and I prefer BD. It wasn't 'rammed' down my throat either.

You've flat out stated you REFUSE to use BD. Yet you tell others to have both for all the movies. Take your own advice and buy a BD player. You'll have the other 75% of the movies out there, plus you'll get over this bizarre phobia you're going through when you find out it actually is a great format.
I said that I refuse to BUY BD movies. I already have a Blu-ray player for my HTPC - selling my XBox 360 HDDVD add-on after installing the LG GGC-H20L. I've yet to find any title worth renting on Blu-ray. I am an HD DVD only supporter, even though I am technically dual format. The only reason I bought the LG drive was to have an HD DVD drive that was internal.

I said that I refuse to BUY BD movies. I already have a Blu-ray player for my HTPC - selling my XBox 360 HDDVD add-on after installing the LG GGC-H20L. I've yet to find any title worth renting on Blu-ray. I am an HD DVD only supporter, even though I am technically dual format. The only reason I bought the LG drive was to have an HD DVD drive that was internal.

You know, back in the old days people used to love watching movies. I guess nowadays they look at whether the logo above the cover art is blue or red and decided if the movie is worth watching or not based on the logo. :rolleyes:

It is unfortuanate that a single individual can post dozens of times in a thread that is very much legitimate -- that HDM is doing as well or better than DVD at the same point -- in a (likely successful) attempt to get a thread locked. Perhaps warnings can be issued or posts deleted before a perfectly appropriate thread about an article regarding HDM adoption is locked.

being on this site it seems as though this individual has free reign to go about this behavior in multiple threads and adds nothing to the conversations that legit members would like to have. instead it relates more to a marketing/propaganda tactic. i thought this behavior was to be eradicated under the new rules? its ashame because many members here would be interested in some of the threads that his trolling will inevitably get locked.

I know a lot of people have been questioning the growth rate of HDM compared to standard DVD (many saying that neither HDM format will "win").

Well you will be pleased to hear that HDM is actually being adopted at a faster rate than DVD was.

Link (http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6525812)

This is really encouraging news for HDM. Thanks for posting this.

Sorry for interrupting the war for this brief on-topic post.

You know, back in the old days people used to love watching movies. I guess nowadays they look at whether the logo above the cover art is blue or red and decided if the movie is worth watching or not based on the logo. :rolleyes:

exactly. apparently he was unable to even find a single bd film worth renting. wonder how much that would change if they were in red cases?;)

being on this site it seems as though this individual has free reign to go about this behavior in multiple threads and adds nothing to the conversations that legit members would like to have. instead it relates more to a marketing/propaganda tactic. i thought this behavior was to be eradicated under the new rules? its ashame because many members here would be interested in some of the threads that his trolling will inevitably get locked.

If this person were doing this for BD had the war gone the other way on here, they'd be history in a day.

Would any of you Blu guys take a free HD-DVD player? Would you buy software for it even if its not BOGO?

If you answer no to any of the above then you are no different than Midnightwatcher.

Would any of you Blu guys take a free HD-DVD player? Would you buy software for it even if its not BOGO?

If you answer no to any of the above then you are no different than Midnightwatcher.

I'm pretty sure anyone in here would take a FREE HD DVD player.

What's wrong with wanting to get a good deal by buying BOGO?

Nothing wrong with BOGOS

So how many unbundled players do you think were sold? With evidence.

And the truth...

I said it when someone else said they got a "free" BD player or HD DVD player. I asked how much was the tv? He paid full retail on a tv I know beyond a doubt could be had for 400.00 or more off.
This is what is happening in many cases. Deals cannot be combined etc. When all is said and done the old motto "nothing is free" applies. When they left the factory, were shipped over, inventoried and eventually SOLD, it counts as a sale, no matter how free the consumer 'thinks' it is.

You never save money by spending money and your never get anything free like this deal mentioned without spending money.

It is interesting to see what is actually pretty impressive (to me) HDM adoption in the teeth (until recently) of a format war. Now that there is just one HDM format (realistically), it will be fascinating to see what happens now. Too bad it did not happen before the holidays, but these bundles are apparently doing well and we'll see the number of Blu-Ray titles increase all year, including some true classics from Disney and Fox and another strong catalog title from Pixar. And, of course, new releases.

I'm looking forward to HDM in 2008.

It is interesting to see what is actually pretty impressive (to me) HDM adoption in the teeth (until recently) of a format war. Now that there is just one HDM format (realistically), it will be fascinating to see what happens now. Too bad it did not happen before the holidays, but these bundles are apparently doing well and we'll see the number of Blu-Ray titles increase all year, including some true classics from Disney and Fox and another strong catalog title from Pixar. And, of course, new releases.

I'm looking forward to HDM in 2008.

I am too. CEA is expecting the Super Bowl to drive over 2 million HDTV sales. Hopefully many of those new HDTV owners start getting into HDM as well.

exactly. apparently he was unable to even find a single bd film worth renting. wonder how much that would change if they were in red cases?;)
That I didn't already have on DVD or HD DVD.

I am too. CEA is expecting the Super Bowl to drive over 2 million HDTV sales. Hopefully many of those new HDTV owners start getting into HDM as well.
I'm sure there will be an increase in HD DVD sales, too.

I am too. CEA is expecting the Super Bowl to drive over 2 million HDTV sales. Hopefully many of those new HDTV owners start getting into HDM as well.

hopefully so because if people really start to get on board the studios will start to feel confident and the selection of titles will grow exponentially. i know there are more than a few things i hope make it to bd but if adoption isn't going well they may not. here's to the continued growth of hdm.:D

hopefully so because if people really start to get on board the studios will start to feel confident and the selection of titles will grow exponentially. i know there are more than a few things i hope make it to bd but if adoption isn't going well they may not. here's to the continued growth of hdm.:D

+1. Bundling is a brilliant tactic and its one that heavily favors Blu-Ray because of Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, etc. Of course, there's only one HD-DVD CE company. The BDA's strategy of getting overwhelming CE support for Blu-Ray is really paying off now.

Here's to increased adoption and more titles....

thank you