Sonic just announced it will no longer sell HD DVD authoring software. I strongly supported HD DVD but this would be it for the format:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/30/sonics-scenarist-now-blu-ray-digital-distribution-format-only/

Can you elaborate on why this would be the last nail in the coffin? Unless they are the only software maker then I don't see the big issue..

Cue the simultaneous spontaneous combustion of all HD DVD players and movies...:)

WOW. My Troll Meter just went off the scale!
J

Thanks for telling us.

larry

I guess I'll sell my whole collection now. Thanks for the heads up.

:rolleyes:

Ok..Ok..

This is a discussions forum right? I author HD DVD for a living so I'm kinda upset at the news..and 20K in the hole How will content owners port their content to disc? They are the only professional authoring tool at this point.

Ok..Ok..

This is a discussions forum right? I author HD DVD for a living so I'm kinda upset at the news..and 20K in the hole How will content owners port their content to disc? They are the only professional authoring tool at this point.

So the 20K tool will not work anymore? It lacks many features that you need?

No...I just can't sell my HD DVD services anymore. Lost several jobs in the last month and news like this doesn't help. BTW...I finishing up the first HD DVD surf flick...so check it out.

Sorry, don't mean to be a troll. I don't post here at all, but I'm very passionate about HD content on disc and news like this makes me sad. :(

There are other software like ULEAD MovieStudio 11 Plus and Nero. They are about 100 bucks.

Curious: How many people can afford Scenarist anyhow? Obviously nobody was buying it.

I mean professional tools..a tool needed to generate the files for replication. Plus Ulead doesn't author Advanced Content (pop up menus, ect). Lots of independent developers like myself were buying the Scenarist tool

Google (http://www.google.com) is your friend. I bet you a free HD DVD movie that you can find another authoring tool and that your current Sonic software program still works! :cool:

Of course it works...my point is that somebody wants to pay me to author HD DVD anymore. They all want Blu Ray. Plus Sonic will slowly stop supporting the tool they sold to me...which isn't perfect BTW. There is another tool from Netblender. I hope other HD DVD tools will come along but HD DVD future doesn't look good from where I'm sitting...just my opinion of course.

Of course it works...my point is that somebody wants to pay me to author HD DVD anymore. They all want Blu Ray. Plus Sonic will slowly stop supporting the tool they sold to me...which isn't perfect BTW. There is another tool from Netblender. I hope other HD DVD tools will come along but HD DVD future doesn't look good from where I'm sitting...just my opinion of course.Were you doing work for the studios transferring masters to HD-DVD? I guess I'm kinda confused about what you're doing..

The question is, what do the major studios use to author HD-DVD's of their movies?

Were you doing work for the studios transferring masters to HD-DVD? I guess I'm kinda confused about what you're doing..

No...mostly independent content owners and corporate work

The question is, what do the major studios use to author HD-DVD's of their movies?

I think Sonic's annoucement proves that most of the studio titles were done with Toshiba's tool

Of course it works...my point is that somebody wants to pay me to author HD DVD anymore. They all want Blu Ray. Plus Sonic will slowly stop supporting the tool they sold to me...which isn't perfect BTW. There is another tool from Netblender. I hope other HD DVD tools will come along but HD DVD future doesn't look good from where I'm sitting...just my opinion of course.

Thanks for posting the info, sorry about your potential investment loss. Don't worry about the negative reactions. There's a lot of denial going on here...mixed with fear.

I pray every day for a speedy end to this format war.

Arthur

Proud owner of an HD A-1, owner of a dozen HD-DVD titles and a member in good standing of Netflix.

After purchase Daikin Scenarist Sonic can't develop new good authoring tool. Sonic only used sdk from toshiba/memorytech, ulead, mainconcept to produce overpriced buggy tools.

Netblender DoStudioMX is much better than Scenarist because has not only multiplexor but also HDi tool and very reasonable cost per month.

Also Ulead have Studio Pro HD and DMF 6 plus with HD power pack which added HDi authoring with pop-up menu templates.

No tragedy at all. Greedy Sonic must die! :D

Yeah..its probably a good thing. We need 1 format...now lets do it right. I'd love to see HDi suported on BD though...here's hoping.

Netblender has a good tool but it can be buggy and it does have limitation because your not free to develop your own code but use their abstraction layer. Sonic is a poor excuse for a company.

I pray every day for a speedy end to this format war.You're welcome to you own religion, however possibly misguided, but I for one think Competition is Good.

Here's to two formats, at a minimum!

To sum it up, loosing Sonic has no bearing on whether HD-DVD lives or dies.

I.E. No loss.

We need 1 format...now lets do it right.

For consumers war between monsters is better.
War is evolution and competition.
Is time to make money :D

To sum it up, loosing Sonic has no bearing on whether HD-DVD lives or dies.

I.E. No loss.

At least try to explain your comment. There is no available HD DVD proffesional authoring tool now. Why would you think this has no effect on HD DVD. There alot of independent content out there - if you happy with studio garbage then I'd say your correct at this point in time. I lost several nature documentaries due to Warner annoucement and now this annoucement from Sonic. Even corporate client are asking for BD.

Microsoft just introduced a new software/HD-DVD emulator package recently that supposably makes HD-DVD authoring very easy and cheaper.I don't know much about it beyond that.The following link has some info about it.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/13/microsoft-unveils-xbox-360-hd-dvd-emulator-hopes-to-speed-up-de/

To sum it up, loosing Sonic has no bearing on whether HD-DVD lives or dies.

I.E. No loss.

I agree with u.

You're welcome to you own religion, however possibly misguided, but I for one think Competition is Good.

Here's to two formats, at a minimum!

I for one do not like being held hostage by two feuding Japanese conglomerates (again!!!). These samurai of the electronics world can't help trying to decapitate one another and the consumers are the blood-spattered worse for it. Try and shoot pro video without a Japanese format decision involved.

According to your reasoning we shouldn't standardize plumbing pipes or screws. Make 'em any size you like and let folks choose! Love that competition!

If consumers are to be seriously sold on hi def DVDs they must be given a single format that delivers the quality and SELECTION they want. If studios do a crappy job on a release then they'll lose. Meanwhile the FORMAT (like DVD, like CD, like VHS like 78 RPM) will establish a quality level playing field...where competition can thrive.

Meanwhile I'm sorry for those who invested heavily in HD-DVD. I relate. I'm still angry about what happened to SACD and DVD-Audio...

I for one do not like being held hostage by two feuding Japanese conglomerates (again!!!). These samurai of the electronics world can't help trying to decapitate one another and the consumers are the blood-spattered worse for it. Try and shoot pro video without a Japanese format decision involved.

According to your reasoning we shouldn't standardize plumbing pipes or screws. Make 'em any size you like and let folks choose! Love that competition!

If consumers are to be seriously sold on hi def DVDs they must be given a single format that delivers the quality and SELECTION they want. If studios do a crappy job on a release then they'll lose. Meanwhile the FORMAT (like DVD, like CD, like VHS like 78 RPM) will establish a quality level playing field...where competition can thrive.

Meanwhile I'm sorry for those who invested heavily in HD-DVD. I relate. I'm still angry about what happened to SACD and DVD-Audio...

I agree with with about not having american electronics in the Hidef war. Who ever wins will not help our economy out at all!

Kinda sad that all you guys say is "no impact on the war". This guy is authoring HD DVDs and selling them, and now is losing customers and the company that made authoring possible for him says "no more HD DVD". I think it's bleaker than you guys think for the red side, because the indie releases is a big factor for keeping HD DVD alive.

OP: Sorry for your loss, I'm glad you were there still trying to release for us. :)

Can you elaborate on why this would be the last nail in the coffin? Unless they are the only software maker then I don't see the big issue..

+1:rolleyes:

Microsoft just introduced a new software/HD-DVD emulator package recently that supposably makes HD-DVD authoring very easy and cheaper.I don't know much about it beyond that.The following link has some info about it.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/13/m...o-speed-up-de/


Thats just the emulator...It a great time saver but if one can't actually author HD DVD titles or convince clients not to go to blu ray then its useless.

Independent titles were HD DVD saving grace and now the only tool available to author those indy titles is no longer sold or supported. IMO....HD DVD was a much better format for consumers but, I'm sorry, if I can't drum up business or support my tool then me and HD DVD are finished (although I'll enjoy my discs). I just really want 1 format...I don't care what it is. BD a great technology, just let independednt developers like myself access to affordable tools.

Let me just put it simply - There's NO ONE involved in producing HD DVDs right now who has a bright outlook on the format.

Have you any new from memory tech?

Looks like HD-DVD is now in almost the same hole as Blu-Ray when it comes to independent authoring of discs for replication.

Let me just put it simply - There's NO ONE involved in producing HD DVDs right now who has a bright outlook on the format.

Have you checked with Sonic if they plan to offer crossgrades to their BD tool for companies using the HD DVD platform?

I should add that my question has nothing to do with the merits or passions for either format. I'm only speaking in terms of business, since it appears that most of your customers go Blu-ray.

Kinda sad that all you guys say is "no impact on the war". This guy is authoring HD DVDs and selling them, and now is losing customers and the company that made authoring possible for him says "no more HD DVD". I think it's bleaker than you guys think for the red side, because the indie releases is a big factor for keeping HD DVD alive.
I think the problem is that people think this announcement is only about a consumer tool like the kind that you use to put together reunion clips and baby's first steps stuff, when in fact it's Sonic ending HD DVD support of the professional tool that studios and distributors are using. The OP knows this through actual experience with the tool, so I don't know why people are attacking him for it.

Kinda sad that all you guys say is "no impact on the war". This guy is authoring HD DVDs and selling them, and now is losing customers and the company that made authoring possible for him says "no more HD DVD". I think it's bleaker than you guys think for the red side, because the indie releases is a big factor for keeping HD DVD alive.


...and people wonder why "professionals" don't want to post here. :rolleyes:

Have you checked with Sonic if they plan to offer crossgrades to their BD tool for companies using the HD DVD platform?

I should add that my question has nothing to do with the merits or passions for either format. I'm only speaking in terms of business, since it appears that most of your customers go Blu-ray

Yes...I was informed this morning of that program. But its still expensive. They will still support the tool but I don't know how long. What really hurts is that I can't even sell the thing for a reasonable price compared to what I paid.

I wouldn't say anyones attacking me :)

I for one do not like being held hostage by two feuding Japanese conglomerates (again!!!). These samurai of the electronics world can't help trying to decapitate one another and the consumers are the blood-spattered worse for it.Sorry but...you are not a hostage, nor has even one drop of blood been shed in this format "war".

According to your reasoning we shouldn't standardize plumbing pipes or screws. Make 'em any size you like and let folks choose! Love that competition!Hey Arthur, you heard of PVC pipe? CPVC? PeX? How about cast iron pipe? Galvanized steel? What about Copper?

Competition drives, among other things, Innovation. You're welcome to your opinion, but mine is that you are Wrong.

OP, sorry to hear the news and how it particularly affects you. This really sucks for independents.

At least try to explain your comment. There is no available HD DVD proffesional authoring tool now. Why would you think this has no effect on HD DVD. There alot of independent content out there - if you happy with studio garbage then I'd say your correct at this point in time. I lost several nature documentaries due to Warner annoucement and now this annoucement from Sonic. Even corporate client are asking for BD.

I am curious as to why you don't convert your business to Blu-ray if that is what your customers are wanting from you.

I have known any number of programmers who used to be, say, FORTRAN programmers, and then they discovered that the customers wanted programs written in C. So, what do they do? Switch to C of course!

Programming in Fortran then switching to C doesn't cost any money. In this situation, I need to cough up several thousand dollars to buy another authoring system. Basically I made a business bet and I lost. Put all my eggs into 1 basket if you will. I didn't expect things to happen this fast. I was hoping to pay off the system over more time.

I am testing a demo of Blu Print right now for one of my clients who interested in purchasing the system and thats 50K plus 10K a year for mandatory support.

I am testing a demo of Blu Print right now for one of my clients who interested in purchasing the system and thats 50K plus 10K a year for mandatory support.Welcome to the world that MANY here would have you embrace, one in which you have NO CHOICE but to submit to the will of... the BDA.

Welcome to the world that MANY here would have you embrace, one in which you have NO CHOICE but to submit to the will of... the BDA

I go where the crops are :D

Welcome to the world that MANY here would have you embrace, one in which you have NO CHOICE but to submit to the will of... the BDA.Funny. That's exactly what happened with DVD, which was started by Toshiba. Thus, every other major manufacturer (most of who make more money than Sony) opposed them to create the BDA.

The big problem with Blu-Ray authoring is that the authoring software is less than stellar and the software companies are not keeping up with the replicators in updating their software to support their standards which are MANDATORY if you want your discs replicated. You're better off just giving your assets and a hefty fee to Sony DADC for authoring.

Feel for your loss Hello. Don't know anything about authoring, but I'd bet you can save yourself and your customers some money by authoring standard def, and using an argument based on what sounds like lack of support from either camp.
BTW - I'll buy one of your surf flicks. Who's in it, and what breaks? Being a surfer, and having many friends that surf, most surfers would rather spend their cash on boards, gas, beer, food, bud, and wetsuits. And not many have displays large enough to take advantage of HD. All my surf dvds upconverted look great.

Feel for your loss Hello. Don't know anything about authoring, but I'd bet you can save yourself and your customers some money by authoring standard def, and using an argument based on what sounds like lack of support from either camp.
BTW - I'll buy one of your surf flicks. Who's in it, and what breaks? Being a surfer, and having many friends that surf, most surfers would rather spend their cash on boards, gas, beer, food, bud, and wetsuits. And not many have displays large enough to take advantage of HD. All my surf dvds upconverted look great.

I've been doing SD titles for years now.

Its not my surf film but my client's. It was shot 720p but it still looks fantastic. PM me and I'll send you the Title's Name when I'm done. I do have an SD title coming out soon you might enjoy It's a DVD surf guide for Southern California - look for it at the end of the year.

I think you'd be surprised how many surfers have cash. All those fat guys on longboards at Huntington Cliffs all drive off in Hummers after their sessions. :)

Welcome to the world that MANY here would have you embrace, one in which you have NO CHOICE but to submit to the will of... the BDA.

Welcome to the world that the CE companies and studios created for us all, where a needless format war will cost many people their investments before it is over.

I thought that 'Sonic' was owned by / Divison of "Sony Software"?

I thought that 'Sonic' was owned by / Divison of "Sony Software"?

I think you might be confusing with Sonic Foundry which was bought by Sony. It was a different company.

I can commiserate with Helloitsme's lament.

It seemed like only yesterday when DVD authoring was newly accessible to the semi-pros. Back when the first DVD burner from Pioneer rolled out at a bargain of $799, Sonic was there with their high-end DVD authoring tool Scenarist for $20k-$40k(?). Their consumer product DVDit ($500ish) was among the first to allow "fancy" premade menus, but for motion thumbnails Scenarist was the only product up to the task.

I bought in when the burners dropped down to $500 and tried using it with Sonic DVDit. Unfortunately, the software was a steaming coil of aggravation. Things got much better by the time Adobe came out with Encore 1.0 and Macs had DVD Studio Pro.

Nowadays polished DVD authoring in the bargainware bin has trickled down to the pricepoint J6P can afford to buy. My point is that DVD allowed everyone to take part. The DVD spec didn't mandate CSS (Content Scrambling System) -- a wise move. Of course, the studios were the major forces providing the lion's share of content for DVD's success, but the format didn't exclude non-studio entities. Independents, semipros, freelancers, and hobbyists all had a seat. Folks with camcorders finally had an effective way to distribute their footage to friends and family without giving up a single pixel of detail in a blank that barely cost fifty cents.

In today's high-def era where 1080 HDV cameras are sliding into the same pricepoint once occupied by SD miniDV models, HD DVD has everything going for it as a personal distribution format. At the cheapest level, there's software like MF6 and Studio11 Ultimate that allows HD content to be burned on a DVD-R such that the player recognizes it as a HD DVD. I've successfully done this with 20 minutes of footage from a Canon XH-A1 played back on an HD-A3. The 1080 detail was every bit as jaw-dropping as if the camera were directly hooked up to the HDTV. As Helloitsme indicates at the upper end, there's the current version of Scenarist for powerful custom scripting and menus. I had been hoping the same trickle-down action would occur where HD DVD burners and affordable consumer-level authoring programs began rolling out.

Capture, edit, and author homebrew HD DVD content to DVD-R (omitting optional AACS) and that disc has a good chance of playing on every HD DVD player. To me, that's a very appealing format.

Before anyone brings up using the web as a distribution format. I find it useless -- now and in the foreseeable future. FIOS has been spreading slower than molasses in winter. ISPs are itching to change their business model where bandwidth traffic is metered AND some have resorted to blocking torrents (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080129-p2p-users-blast-comcast-in-fcc-proceeding.html). Can't count on "free" hosting sites (Putfile, etc) to exist down the road. Content uploaded to GoogleVideo and Youtube gets knocked down to worse-than-DVD quality. Even new HD sites like Vimeo.com require submitted content to be dummied down to 1280x720 with a 5000kbps bitrate. I shot my stuff in full high def, I want to distribute it among friends and family in the same way. If the web is going to hinder this speed-wise or quality-wise, what's the point of capturing in HD to begin with?

This leaves us with BRD to which I keep hearing "Get over it, it's the format that won!" being parroted incessantly. So in looking it over from a hobbyists' point of view, we've got a format that allows no consumer-friendly provision for homebrew content. HD (Blu-Ray structured) content on a ubiquitous DVD-R? Maybe some workarounds for a PS3, but no guarantees it'll play on the remaining set-top BR players (Samsung, Sharp, Panasonic). The remaining solution? $500 for a Blu-Ray burner and $11 a pop for potential coasters... and as pointed out in ArsTechnica's review of EncoreCS3 (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/adobe-encore-cs3-review.ars/5) things aren't terribly rosy in this go-around. From what Wikipedia states, AACS is mandatory on all BR discs or the player doesn't play it. Is this the final roadblock for the content creators with small-volume projects?

I wish Toshiba had promoted HD DVD's approachability to the growing number of HD camcorder shooters out there. (free light version of HD DVD editing/authoring program for download or player purchase) I think it would have highlighted the versatility of the format and brought more people into the fold.

Sorry.. had to vent on behalf of the indies and semi-pros at where this so-called "war" is leading us.

Is there any other professional solution for HD DVD authoring left?

Carter, is there any reason to think that BD burners and blanks won't eventually be as cheap as DVDs are now? There was a time, not too long ago, when burning CDs was as exotic and expensive hobby as burning BD is now. Will AACS remain a big issue? I can remember when consumer level DVD authoring software would only do MPEG audio and LPCM, because licensing DD cost too much, then a stage where they'd only do DD 2.0, and finally now DD 5.1 is standard in very inexpensive software.

I'm by no means an expert on any of these issues, but I think ways around or through will be found. I don't seriously believe Sony wants to get into the wedding videos business after all! :D

Selling HD DVD over Blu-ray to corporate clients should be pretty easy. Not only is the playback equipment dramatically less expensive, but HD DVD disc replication is also less expensive due to the mandatory AACS license for Blu-ray discs. I'd say you've got lots of ammunition there!

Corporate clients love standards and compatibility (real or perceived). That's why I'm writing this on an IBM brand PC. :D

There have been postings where users claim that the latest firmware on any BD player allows BD-R playback now.

I've been doing SD titles for years now.

Its not my surf film but my client's. It was shot 720p but it still looks fantastic. PM me and I'll send you the Title's Name when I'm done. I do have an SD title coming out soon you might enjoy It's a DVD surf guide for Southern California - look for it at the end of the year.

I think you'd be surprised how many surfers have cash. All those fat guys on longboards at Huntington Cliffs all drive off in Hummers after their sessions. :)

You have done any 3xDVD project ?
For non-hollywood small studios very good solution and affordable for clients.

You have done any 3xDVD project ?
For non-hollywood small studios very good solution and affordable for clients.

I can still convince corporate clients to take 3X titles but not someone who wants to replicate. In fact, being an ethical businessman :) I told one guy to seriously reconsider stamping 5000 HD DVDs - I told him this last week after he asked me my opinion on the Warner decision and what his options were. I also told him the price to get the same title done in BD by an associate of mine & haven't heard back. The look on his face must have looked like this = :eek:

Kinda sad that all you guys say is "no impact on the war". This guy is authoring HD DVDs and selling them, and now is losing customers and the company that made authoring possible for him says "no more HD DVD". I think it's bleaker than you guys think for the red side, because the indie releases is a big factor for keeping HD DVD alive.

OP: Sorry for your loss, I'm glad you were there still trying to release for us. :)

I agree and feel bad for you. We can go 'round and 'round here with format bashing, but this guy put up $20K to do work in a "new technology" that may now be being dropped, and I am sure that Sonic is not going to refund his cash or send him a free Blu-Ray version. All of this because there was not one format agreed on by all at the onset, then because all of the studios did not support both formats to create a fair marketplace.

Bottom line is the dude is out $20K, which is a lot more than the cost of an A3 and 10 free movies! :(

I agree and feel bad for you. We can go 'round and 'round here with format bashing, but this guy put up $20K to do work in a "new technology" that may now be being dropped, and I am sure that Sonic is not going to refund his cash or send him a free Blu-Ray version. All of this because there was not one format agreed on by all at the onset, then because all of the studios did not support both formats to create a fair marketplace.

Bottom line is the dude is out $20K, which is a lot more than the cost of an A3 and 10 free movies! :(

I'm sure one of the Blu-ray guys will come in here with their usual, "Well, when you're an early adopter, you have to expect these things" speech.

Can you elaborate on why this would be the last nail in the coffin? Unless they are the only software maker then I don't see the big issue..

Microsoft and Toshiba jointly developed some HD-DVD authoring tools that were highly powerful and had an incredibly lousy front end. Basically an SDK with a rough interface to show that the app had potential. That code was licensed solely to Sonic, who then incorporated it into Scenarist. Scenarist continues to be the primary product used by Hollywood studios for authoring DVD menus. Sonic dropping HD-DVD support implies they don't think people will be authoring HD-DVDs at an enterprise level (not hobbiest stuff you'd make with Ulead, Pinnacle, etc.).

When the guy selling the shovel realizes there's no more gold in the hills, that's a good sign the rush is over.

For the guy who is out $20k - you can exchange the software for the BD version, so you're not really out the money.

I can commiserate with Helloitsme's lament.

It seemed like only yesterday when DVD authoring was newly accessible to the semi-pros. Back when the first DVD burner from Pioneer rolled out at a bargain of $799, Sonic was there with their high-end DVD authoring tool Scenarist for $20k-$40k(?). Their consumer product DVDit ($500ish) was among the first to allow "fancy" premade menus, but for motion thumbnails Scenarist was the only product up to the task.

I bought in when the burners dropped down to $500 and tried using it with Sonic DVDit. Unfortunately, the software was a steaming coil of aggravation. Things got much better by the time Adobe came out with Encore 1.0 and Macs had DVD Studio Pro.

Nowadays polished DVD authoring in the bargainware bin has trickled down to the pricepoint J6P can afford to buy. My point is that DVD allowed everyone to take part. The DVD spec didn't mandate CSS (Content Scrambling System) -- a wise move. Of course, the studios were the major forces providing the lion's share of content for DVD's success, but the format didn't exclude non-studio entities. Independents, semipros, freelancers, and hobbyists all had a seat. Folks with camcorders finally had an effective way to distribute their footage to friends and family without giving up a single pixel of detail in a blank that barely cost fifty cents.

In today's high-def era where 1080 HDV cameras are sliding into the same pricepoint once occupied by SD miniDV models, HD DVD has everything going for it as a personal distribution format. At the cheapest level, there's software like MF6 and Studio11 Ultimate that allows HD content to be burned on a DVD-R such that the player recognizes it as a HD DVD. I've successfully done this with 20 minutes of footage from a Canon XH-A1 played back on an HD-A3. The 1080 detail was every bit as jaw-dropping as if the camera were directly hooked up to the HDTV. As Helloitsme indicates at the upper end, there's the current version of Scenarist for powerful custom scripting and menus. I had been hoping the same trickle-down action would occur where HD DVD burners and affordable consumer-level authoring programs began rolling out.

Capture, edit, and author homebrew HD DVD content to DVD-R (omitting optional AACS) and that disc has a good chance of playing on every HD DVD player. To me, that's a very appealing format.

Before anyone brings up using the web as a distribution format. I find it useless -- now and in the foreseeable future. FIOS has been spreading slower than molasses in winter. ISPs are itching to change their business model where bandwidth traffic is metered AND some have resorted to blocking torrents (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080129-p2p-users-blast-comcast-in-fcc-proceeding.html). Can't count on "free" hosting sites (Putfile, etc) to exist down the road. Content uploaded to GoogleVideo and Youtube gets knocked down to worse-than-DVD quality. Even new HD sites like Vimeo.com require submitted content to be dummied down to 1280x720 with a 5000kbps bitrate. I shot my stuff in full high def, I want to distribute it among friends and family in the same way. If the web is going to hinder this speed-wise or quality-wise, what's the point of capturing in HD to begin with?

This leaves us with BRD to which I keep hearing "Get over it, it's the format that won!" being parroted incessantly. So in looking it over from a hobbyists' point of view, we've got a format that allows no consumer-friendly provision for homebrew content. HD (Blu-Ray structured) content on a ubiquitous DVD-R? Maybe some workarounds for a PS3, but no guarantees it'll play on the remaining set-top BR players (Samsung, Sharp, Panasonic). The remaining solution? $500 for a Blu-Ray burner and $11 a pop for potential coasters... and as pointed out in ArsTechnica's review of EncoreCS3 (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/adobe-encore-cs3-review.ars/5) things aren't terribly rosy in this go-around. From what Wikipedia states, AACS is mandatory on all BR discs or the player doesn't play it. Is this the final roadblock for the content creators with small-volume projects?

I wish Toshiba had promoted HD DVD's approachability to the growing number of HD camcorder shooters out there. (free light version of HD DVD editing/authoring program for download or player purchase) I think it would have highlighted the versatility of the format and brought more people into the fold.

Sorry.. had to vent on behalf of the indies and semi-pros at where this so-called "war" is leading us.

Exactly right. We're getting closer with Blu-ray, at least for HDV with hybrid disks on red laser media that package HDV mpeg2 inside an AVC wrapper, with chapter stops and 5.1 audio, but no menus. But with the PS3, it could all go away on the next firmware update. I expect it might. Blu-ray just wasn't made for us.

HD DVD hybrid disks are orders of magnitude more complete and compatible, but the HDM public is so eager to see the format go away they are blind to BD's private ways.

Scenarist continues to be the primary product used by Hollywood studios for authoring DVD menus.

Sonic within Scenarist ACA dont have tool for creating HDi (interactive "pop up" menu with web connect).ACA is only multiplexor.
If you talk about authoring SD DVD in this case for creation menu also used outside Scenarist tools like Photoshop and After Effects.

I've been doing SD titles for years now.

Its not my surf film but my client's. It was shot 720p but it still looks fantastic. PM me and I'll send you the Title's Name when I'm done. I do have an SD title coming out soon you might enjoy It's a DVD surf guide for Southern California - look for it at the end of the year.

I think you'd be surprised how many surfers have cash. All those fat guys on longboards at Huntington Cliffs all drive off in Hummers after their sessions. :)

Yeah, alot of the OC oldies got cash. I'm 39(guess I'm one of the old guys now, but still ride my 6'2), and my surfing buddies with cash all have flat panels, I try to tell them about HD, even show them "Loose Change", "Hit & Run", and "September Sessions" upconverted, they dig it, but the attention span is pretty short. I'll Pm you now.

Microsoft and Toshiba jointly developed some HD-DVD authoring tools that were highly powerful and had an incredibly lousy front end. Basically an SDK with a rough interface to show that the app had potential. That code was licensed solely to Sonic, who then incorporated it into Scenarist. Scenarist continues to be the primary product used by Hollywood studios for authoring DVD menus. Sonic dropping HD-DVD support implies they don't think people will be authoring HD-DVDs at an enterprise level (not hobbiest stuff you'd make with Ulead, Pinnacle, etc.).

When the guy selling the shovel realizes there's no more gold in the hills, that's a good sign the rush is over.

For the guy who is out $20k - you can exchange the software for the BD version, so you're not really out the money.

No...I can't just exchange it. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, Sonic will allow me to purchase their BD system for a discounted rate.

I'm testing Blu Print now for one of my clients whos thinking of getting in the BD game. HDMV authoring is so simple compared to Advanced content HD DVD its silly :) Even if I were to purchase another system...I would never talk with Sonic again. Sony, on the other hand, is bending over backwards in supporting my testing.

Yeah, alot of the OC oldies got cash. I'm 39(guess I'm one of the old guys now, but still ride my 6'2), and my surfing buddies with cash all have flat panels, I try to tell them about HD, even show them "Loose Change", "Hit & Run", and "September Sessions" upconverted, they dig it, but the attention span is pretty short. I'll Pm you now

Just wait till you see some of those titles in 1080p ;)

Scenarist continues to be the primary product used by Hollywood studios for authoring DVD menus

Thats doubtful...I don't think Sonic would drop a product if Hollywood was using it. Unless they know something we don't. But I believe somone mention that all Scenarist is a big expensive muxing engine and Playlist generator. All coding is then done by hand for the menus.

I'm testing Blu Print now for one of my clients whos thinking of getting in the BD game. HDMV authoring is so simple compared to Advanced content HD DVD its silly :) Even if I were to purchase another system...I would never talk with Sonic again. Sony, on the other hand, is bending over backwards in supporting my testing.

Well then the future is not so bleak after all. I have both Scenarist ACA and BDA(HDMV) and I have to agree authoring/muxing is much easier in BDA. Scenarist BDA is just an overpriced muxer anyway but it literally only cost me a fraction, and I MEAN fraction, of what you paid for it. I am starting to lean towards the belief that the future of data storage will also be the future of HDM storage and that most of the older generation say 32+ lean towards optical storage because our attention spans are a little longer then the generation before us, for the most part, and we tend to notice things like prices, and we have a little more patience. The younger guys/gals tend to lean towards HDD storage for it's convenience and their 'wanted it yesterday', Red bull powered, career/money driven lifes. ie surfers. I mean don't get me wrong I think there is a future for optical media, or atleast I hope there is, but as media servers become more and more popular I think people will want downloadable(probably not a word) media/data that they get it at high speed and just store it on their ever expanding HDD's.

I prefer optical as I personally only have a 160gb HDD in my media server but, with the current prices of HDM I personally can't afford it which is why I myself have choosen to go the media server route myself. I can still easily us sets of VERY CHEAP SD-DVD media to store Bluray/HD-DVD data/projects and I can store/complete for replication about ~5-10 projects for the price it would cost me to do ONE with even cheap HDM. But I believe they do teach you in business school/class to not put all your eggs in one basket but then again ya win some ya loose some ;)






Thats doubtful...I don't think Sonic would drop a product if Hollywood was using it. Unless they know something we don't.

ALWAYS assume the worst and be prepared for it. Man I'm baked.

:D

I can commiserate with Helloitsme's lament.

It seemed like only yesterday when DVD authoring was newly accessible to the semi-pros. Back when the first DVD burner from Pioneer rolled out at a bargain of $799, Sonic was there with their high-end DVD authoring tool Scenarist for $20k-$40k(?). Their consumer product DVDit ($500ish) was among the first to allow "fancy" premade menus, but for motion thumbnails Scenarist was the only product up to the task.

I bought in when the burners dropped down to $500 and tried using it with Sonic DVDit. Unfortunately, the software was a steaming coil of aggravation. Things got much better by the time Adobe came out with Encore 1.0 and Macs had DVD Studio Pro.

Nowadays polished DVD authoring in the bargainware bin has trickled down to the pricepoint J6P can afford to buy. My point is that DVD allowed everyone to take part. The DVD spec didn't mandate CSS (Content Scrambling System) -- a wise move. Of course, the studios were the major forces providing the lion's share of content for DVD's success, but the format didn't exclude non-studio entities. Independents, semipros, freelancers, and hobbyists all had a seat. Folks with camcorders finally had an effective way to distribute their footage to friends and family without giving up a single pixel of detail in a blank that barely cost fifty cents.

In today's high-def era where 1080 HDV cameras are sliding into the same pricepoint once occupied by SD miniDV models, HD DVD has everything going for it as a personal distribution format. At the cheapest level, there's software like MF6 and Studio11 Ultimate that allows HD content to be burned on a DVD-R such that the player recognizes it as a HD DVD. I've successfully done this with 20 minutes of footage from a Canon XH-A1 played back on an HD-A3. The 1080 detail was every bit as jaw-dropping as if the camera were directly hooked up to the HDTV. As Helloitsme indicates at the upper end, there's the current version of Scenarist for powerful custom scripting and menus. I had been hoping the same trickle-down action would occur where HD DVD burners and affordable consumer-level authoring programs began rolling out.

Capture, edit, and author homebrew HD DVD content to DVD-R (omitting optional AACS) and that disc has a good chance of playing on every HD DVD player. To me, that's a very appealing format.

Before anyone brings up using the web as a distribution format. I find it useless -- now and in the foreseeable future. FIOS has been spreading slower than molasses in winter. ISPs are itching to change their business model where bandwidth traffic is metered AND some have resorted to blocking torrents (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080129-p2p-users-blast-comcast-in-fcc-proceeding.html). Can't count on "free" hosting sites (Putfile, etc) to exist down the road. Content uploaded to GoogleVideo and Youtube gets knocked down to worse-than-DVD quality. Even new HD sites like Vimeo.com require submitted content to be dummied down to 1280x720 with a 5000kbps bitrate. I shot my stuff in full high def, I want to distribute it among friends and family in the same way. If the web is going to hinder this speed-wise or quality-wise, what's the point of capturing in HD to begin with?

This leaves us with BRD to which I keep hearing "Get over it, it's the format that won!" being parroted incessantly. So in looking it over from a hobbyists' point of view, we've got a format that allows no consumer-friendly provision for homebrew content. HD (Blu-Ray structured) content on a ubiquitous DVD-R? Maybe some workarounds for a PS3, but no guarantees it'll play on the remaining set-top BR players (Samsung, Sharp, Panasonic). The remaining solution? $500 for a Blu-Ray burner and $11 a pop for potential coasters... and as pointed out in ArsTechnica's review of EncoreCS3 (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/adobe-encore-cs3-review.ars/5) things aren't terribly rosy in this go-around. From what Wikipedia states, AACS is mandatory on all BR discs or the player doesn't play it. Is this the final roadblock for the content creators with small-volume projects?

I wish Toshiba had promoted HD DVD's approachability to the growing number of HD camcorder shooters out there. (free light version of HD DVD editing/authoring program for download or player purchase) I think it would have highlighted the versatility of the format and brought more people into the fold.

Sorry.. had to vent on behalf of the indies and semi-pros at where this so-called "war" is leading us.

Fantastic post!!!
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From the outset I was of the belief that HD-DVD and BluRay would "tie" and hybrid players would end up being the rule. I bought into HD-DVD first and loved the format.

However, consumer uncertainty and confusion about formats, among other factors, led to very slow adoption of HD. It's not very hard, either: Red box = HD, Blue box = BluRay!

Lately I've been more of a proponent of "take HD-DVD off life support so at least there is, in the eyes of J6P, a clear successor to DVD that it's not a question of if it will succeed but simply when."

I want HD media on the whole to succeed, but their marketing (in general) is absolutely abysmal, and consumer awareness of the benefits of HD is almost nil.
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To a layman consumer, HD is HD is HD. What comes into their TV is "HD" - even though it could quite likely be a compressed 720p feed with stereo sound (but hey, at least it's widescreen, which is a step in the right direction).

The fact that HD media has a significantly higher bitrate than any broadcast TV, higher resolution (1080p for everything), and next-gen audio formats are almost a trade secret except for people who do their research. HDMI 1.1> 1.2 > 1.3 is yet another debacle in getting consumers to understand what features they're getting.

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Which brings us to your point about consumer/"semi-pro" HD media. Very soon, people will start buying 1080i HD video camcorders en masse. With HD's flexibility, it was the clear choice for transferring HD video. HD video on a DVD+/R or dual layer is a great way to put 30 mins to an hour of 1080i film on a disc to spread around.

Now, with BD seemingly looming above everything, we will need to wait for affordable, abundant BD-R drives (which are seemingly still in their infancy), not to mention an end to consumer apathy regarding HD as a whole.

I for one do not like being held hostage by two feuding Japanese conglomerates (again!!!)...

Yes, it is MUCH better being held hostage by ONE Japanese conglomerate. :rolleyes: