Anyone here have an opportunity to demo both of these projectors in your home rather than just seeing them in a demo room, etc? If so, what are your opinions and what projector did you ultimately prefer? Anyone actually move from the RS1 to the VW60? Doing a search brought up some threads, but it seems like most comments were based upon their owning one as opposed to comparing.

Second thoughts already?:p

I'm debating whether I want the VW60, RS1(killer deal!), or drop down the extra dough for an RS2 (but at twice the price?). I'm remembering and reminded that I paid over $6k for the Optoma H79 and lost $4k selling it a year or so later. It's keeping me in the "budget" range. I've always had my eye on the RS1 but I've never been able to demo it side by side with the VW60.

RobZ, I am curious about this as well but here is my thinking. At the price we picked up the RS1 we can use it until this fall when the VW70, HC6050, RS3 or what ever come out. Then if we decide to change things up we should not have that big of a price drop in selling the RS1. If we were to go to the VW60 we would probably be looking at about a 1k to 1.5k loss in the same time. If you thought the VW60 would last you a few years then it would be different.

RobZ, I am curious about this as well but here is my thinking. At the price we picked up the RS1 we can use it until this fall when the VW70, HC6050, RS3 or what ever come out. Then if we decide to change things up we should not have that big of a price drop in selling the RS1. If we were to go to the VW60 we would probably be looking at about a 1k to 1.5k loss in the same time. If you thought the VW60 would last you a few years then it would be different.

Excellent point! I can see selling the RS1 at less than a $1k loss in a year or so. At nearly $4k, the VW60 will likely lose 50% in a year or two.

I'm debating whether I want the VW60, RS1(killer deal!), or drop down the extra dough for an RS2 (but at twice the price?). I'm remembering and reminded that I paid over $6k for the Optoma H79 and lost $4k selling it a year or so later. It's keeping me in the "budget" range. I've always had my eye on the RS1 but I've never been able to demo it side by side with the VW60.

What makes this harder and more confusing is the professional reviews can be polar opposites. With regard to the VW60 Art from projector reviews states rather emphatically that the vw60 will not be bright enough, for most people, for usage with ambiant light on screens over 100" Thus, if you want to watch sports with a light on it is recommended to look elsewhere. He also mentions it not being as sharp as some of its peers. But he raves about the contrast and picture. Evan over at projectorcentral states that the projector is bright and sharp but contrast is a bit lacking comparatively. The more you research and read the more confusing it gets...

...and it is difficult to see these projectors without buying. Not many of us can buy 2 or 3 projectors and view them side by side. So, we are left with reviews like Art's, Evan's and those from these forums. The biggest thing with the forums is that many who own the projector feel there's is best. I thought the Mitsubishi HC4900 would be ok to hold over for a RS1 with CMS but I could not come close to enjoying it's pic with movies, black levels were so elevated, on par with my old Z3 and not even comparable to my old Z5. The best we can do is read the forums and try things for ourselves. The AE2000 just needs a little more shadow detail for me, it crushes blacks a little more than the Z5 but is improved in image depth in most scenes. There are a few scenes on the AE2000 were you can tell it is still LCD. Hope the RS1 is a keeper.

But with the RS1 we may be dealing with uniformity again. I had this issue with my old G15. It's all in fun, I enjoy trying and owning different pjs. My wife thinks I'm crazy :) but she did at least notice the change from the Z5 to the AE2000, we'll see on the RS1.

I was all set to buy a VW60 but when AVS had the open box deal on the RS1, I went for that instead. I really don't think you can go wrong with either machine - they're so close that unless you had them side by side you really wouldn't know the difference. I have seen both, but at different dealers so I never did a heads-up comparison. I felt the RS1 was just slightly better in the blacks, but I was going with the VW60 for the sole reason that it was $600 cheaper. I didn't feel the very slight improvement was worth the cost differential. With the AVS deal, the RS1 was nearly a grand cheaper than the Sony so the tide changed for me. I know I would be happy with either machine, so that grand I saved made the RS1 a no-brainer. At each of their normal respective street prices, however, I would have gone for the Sony.

What makes this harder and more confusing is the professional reviews can be polar opposites.

There are VERY few reviewers that I trust to give reviews. Most of the reviews out there mention nothing about their methodology of calibration (if any), exactly what settings the changed on the projector, what modes they ran specifically, etc.. Many don't even bother to mention what screen size, gain, lighting conditions, throw distance (big factor in lumens on many projectors), etc... Throw in individual projector variations, and you can end up with totally different reviews of the same projector model.

Actually I doubt you'd lose $1000...most used ones are selling for more than you paid for the open box special. Of course some things depend on what new stuff comes out in the meantime.

Actually I doubt you'd lose $1000...most used ones are selling for more than you paid for the open box special. Of course some things depend on what new stuff comes out in the meantime.

True. I saw one sell above that on FleaBay last week.

I actually made $100 on my 4900, and that's after fleabay and paypal fees -- actual sale price was $175 more than I paid, plus shipping (which was free when I bought). I'll never understand why people who are internet-savvy enough to look on fleabay apparently don't bother to find out actual retail prices.

I actually made $100 on my 4900, and that's after fleabay and paypal fees -- actual sale price was $175 more than I paid, plus shipping (which was free when I bought). I'll never understand why people who are internet-savvy enough to look on fleabay apparently don't bother to find out actual retail prices.

There was one that bid for $1900 two weeks ago. No warranty, no return policy, no guarantee, no $500 rebate. That's FleaBay!

I had both and I preferred the VW60. I didnt like the colors on the RS1. I thought the Sony was quiter as well, but this is all going from memory. If you are thinking about the RS2 get the Marantz VP15S1. Much better projector in my opinion (if you dont see too many rainbows with DLP).

I think its hard to see a difference between the VW60, RS1, and RS2 unless you have an all black room. The Marantz on the other hand is sharper, more details, etc. Only down side to the Marantz is that the projector is 'loud' to me.

I had both and I preferred the VW60. I didnt like the colors on the RS1. I thought the Sony was quiter as well, but this is all going from memory. If you are thinking about the RS2 get the Marantz VP15S1. Much better projector in my opinion (if you dont see too many rainbows with DLP).

I think its hard to see a difference between the VW60, RS1, and RS2 unless you have an all black room. The Marantz on the other hand is sharper, more details, etc. Only down side to the Marantz is that the projector is 'loud' to me.

The Marantz is louder than the RS1?

Very good point on the room. My white ceilings, though high, may kill a bit of the improved contrast along with the HP screen. I would have already bought the 15S1 or a Sim2 but I did have a bit of rainbow sensitivity (mild eye pain and headache infrequently) with the H79. I liked the VW60 but seemed to lack the brightness when the blacks were good (manual iris set pretty low). I'm hoping that the RS1 will have the same blacks with a bit more light output. As far as colors go, I'd admit that I find myself increasing the color saturation when a projector is calibrated correctly. I'm in deep South Texas so I'm use to seeing burnt looking red skin!

So Andrew, you've found a keeper (for now)? Nice projector. Are you just a little tempted to see the RS2? :D

Having a reflective room won't hurt the on/off performance. It will hurt the ANSI CR. You don't need a black velvet covered room to reap the benefits of better on/off. You do need it to get the best ANSI CR. Ambient light will hurt both CR's.

Art from projector reviews states rather emphatically that the vw60 will not be bright enough, for most people, for usage with ambiant light on screens over 100" Thus, if you want to watch sports with a light on it is recommended to look elsewhere.


I cannot diasagree with this statement more. I have over 200 hours on my VW60 and watch high definition sports and other satellite material with the lights on all the time, at a setting where reading is comfortable. My screen size is 106" and my throw distance is 17 feet. I use the lamp in its low setting and still find the image is plenty bright. The projector is calibrated to D65. I should note that I have a light controlled room and my pot lights are not aimed at the screen.

Natural daylight may pose a problem but a statement telling people who want to watch sports with the lights on to look elsewhere is incorrect.

I cannot diasagree with this statement more. I have over 200 hours on my VW60 and watch high definition sports and other satellite material with the lights on all the time, at a setting where reading is comfortable. My screen size is 106" and my throw distance is 17 feet. I use the lamp in its low setting and still find the image is plenty bright. The projector is calibrated to D65. I should note that I have a light controlled room and my pot lights are not aimed at the screen.

Natural daylight may pose a problem but a statement telling people who want to watch sports with the lights on to look elsewhere is incorrect.

Though I agree with you (that the statement isn't really true), it all depends on how one defines "most people". To some, light output is of the most importance. To others, not as much the case. If you do the math, the VW60 technically is plenty bright for a 100" screen (and some larger).

Yeah too much emphasis on brightness when picture quality matters more.

It really is a delicate balance amonst many factors, including light output, but that is only 1 of many.

Originally posted by Jason:

[QUOTE]Though I agree with you (that the statement isn't really true), it all depends on how one defines "most people". To some, light output is of the most importance. To others, not as much the case. If you do the math, the VW60 technically is plenty bright for a 100" screen (and some larger).[QUOTE]



I should have mentioned that I am a DLP convert and that light output is important to me. I should have also mentioned that I am using a Carada Brilliant White screen. I cannot comment on how this projector would perform on a lower gain screen. I can say that when I set the lamp to high mode I find it somewhat uncomfortable to watch as the image causes me eyestrain. In low mode I find the image very "easy" on the eyes over long viewing periods.

I agree with you that light output is one of many factors to consider. I am surprised about how much I like the image this projector puts out, especially given the fact that I have always preferred higher ansi contrast projectors, like the Sharp or the Marantz. Although I would like to see higher ansi contrast with the LCOS/SXRD technology (and I am sure we will in the future) Sony has done many things right overall with this projector, which, in my opinion, compensates for the lower ansi contrast.

Because we all have different preferences, I always emphasize that if at all possible one should preview a projector on a screen similar to the one they either have or intend to get before purchasing.

Having a reflective room won't hurt the on/off performance. It will hurt the ANSI CR. You don't need a black velvet covered room to reap the benefits of better on/off. You do need it to get the best ANSI CR. Ambient light will hurt both CR's.

It should be noted that a reflective room won't hurt the on/off performance IF there is absolutely no other source of light in the room. Even the light sources on a powerstrip, your projector, receiver, etc would hurt absolute on/off contrast once it gets into the really high numbers, especially in a reflective room. The lower the black levels, the more this is true.

Good thread & I've enjoyed reading so far. As a new owner of the 'original' Sony Pearl, (will arrive Monday!) I will finally be making my way into this territory. Eventhough the newer Black Pearl & certainly the RS2 are reported to be better, the reviews for the Pearl aren't too shabby either.

Good luck Rob.

I've owned a Pearl that was probably the best converged unit out there, I know because I spend 3 nights converging it, it was sharper than Black Pearl I viewed. I did not find Black Pearl to be a huge improvement over my old Pearl. I viewed it on 100" Firehawk and found it a bit dim. Nevertheless, it was a very nice pj and the colors looked accurate in normal mode. I liked the jungle foliage more than on my RS1. Skin tones are great on both.


I find the pixel structure larger on my RS1 than Sony SXRD.
The dynamic range of the picture goes to RS1 by a solid margin, but without direct comparison the Black Pearl is nice as well. The absolute black level seems about the same to me, I would think that the type of the screen would matter more. I am using 140" HP with my RS1.

I found shading to be better on all the Pearls I've seen and owned (I had two)
and color uniformity goes to Sony. I would say that for me this is the most important parameter when considering RS1, more so than convergence and light corners. If you can get a good sample than RS1 is a no brainer.

I do like Pearl's motorized lens, a feature I miss. However, on RS1 I can adjust the lens by the tiniest of margins (something the motor can not do) and it does affect the focus. So the motorized lens is a double blessing IMHO.

Motion handling goes by a small margin to Sony. In fast action scenes I found it to be a touch better, not an issue though.

Noise is not a factor for me, but Pearl is nearly silent if that matters, my HTPC makes way more noise than both.

As for the DLP argument few posts earlier I've seen the Marantz and I'll take my RS1 thank you very much. People are "clearly" seeing things I don't no pun intented :) but I do see rainbows. Does it throw a great picture, yes, is it an improvement, hmmmm....

All in all, I think you'd be happy with either, for me an edge goes to RS1 due to dynamic range of the picture.

The bottom line answer to your question is in the "tiny" bit of information "sort of buried" (but I think perfectly clear when read carefully) in one of my very recent posts. (Please forgive me for having a little fun with this )

:D

The bottom line answer to your question is in the "tiny" bit of information "sort of buried" (but I think perfectly clear when read carefully) in one of my very recent posts. (Please forgive me for having a little fun with this )

:D

We can now call you little gregr.

mbonikow, the RS1 loses focus with just a slight bit of lens shift? Does it also lose focus on it's own due to bass, vibration (slamming doors, etc.)? Seems like kind of a bummer.

If the RS2 had motorized lens shift or at least the ability to image shift in the menu (via HDMI) I would pick it up in a heartbeat. I use a self made masking for my motorized screen so image shift is pretty much required on a regular basis. The Pearl had it down with this. Even the Mits 4900 has ALL of these options, including plenty of image shift from the menu.

This is getting to be a tough decision. I want something that will stick around for a while and I'm feeling like maybe the RS2 is a better option. I'm hesitant because I'm not sure I will be able to fully maximize the black level potential. That would really suck considering it's nearly twice the cost of the RS1.

I haven't heard any reports on losing focus due to bass etc. On the other hand there have been a few people that had the RS1 lens vibrate due to a certain bass frequency. The were able to take care of the problem easily.

I feel for you on your decision. I needed similar flexibility with image shift etc. I just couldn't figure out how to do it without adding a VP. Therefore I bit the bullet and bought the Radiance, but that did blow the budget too. Well I guess I blew it even worse by adding a motorized Panamorph system to the mix too. That one was a really good deal though.

I have a hard time with budgets.

I think you got it backwards... RS1 can FOCUS really sharp with a very slight adjustment of the ring, not "loose focus", so my point was that you can focus tighter than with motorized setup of the Pearl. To me it's a trade off between motorized convenience and super tight manual setup. I guess as much as I like being lazy I'd pick manual focus in the end as it provides the best image. On the other hand manual vertical shift and zoom suck :(

So Andrew, you've found a keeper (for now)? Nice projector. Are you just a little tempted to see the RS2? :D

I really like SXRD technology, but when I watch the Marantz I see details that I did not seem to see before. The picture looks razor sharp. I see rainbows at times too, but I wanted to try DLP and in my opinion it is a true improvement over the RS1/VW60. Worth the money, well that is case by case...

I have no interest in the RS2 at all. It sounds like it would be too dim for your needs anyway.

When I moved from the H79 to a VW50 I immediately noticed a decrease in the perceived depth of the image. The "pop" of a good DLP always gives that wow factor. LCOS is more subtle and film-like. If it weren't for the color seperation issues with a single chip DLP it would probably be mounted already (or a Sim2). The other problem is the headaches that my kids may get. One, in particular, seems pretty sensitive to it. That virtually eliminates a single chip for me. Three chippers are too pricey to be worth it to me at this point. I'd imagine that the RS2 will keep me satisfied for years, but I'm curious to see what improvement over th RS1 or VW60 there will be in my setup. The VW60 has plenty of strengths. Remote lens and an adjustable iris along with the quietness are pluses.

RobZ,

Do you have a VW60? I've been trying to figure out what I want to do for a new PJ, I've got an IN76 (similar to the H79). All the logic in the world is telling me the VW60 should be a significant improvement. Looking at Mark's contrast plots, my even the VW50 should outperform my IN76 in all but the highest APL scenes, and the VW60 is an improvement over that. But then I see comments like yours "I immediately noticed a decrease in the perceived depth of the image"

RobZ,

Do you have a VW60? I've been trying to figure out what I want to do for a new PJ, I've got an IN76 (similar to the H79). All the logic in the world is telling me the VW60 should be a significant improvement. Looking at Mark's contrast plots, my even the VW50 should outperform my IN76 in all but the highest APL scenes, and the VW60 is an improvement over that. But then I see comments like yours "I immediately noticed a decrease in the perceived depth of the image"


I've recently sold the VW60 and I'm hunting for a new projector. Don't get me wrong, the VW60 absolutely outperforms the H79. The image depth comment related to the VW50. It just has a different "look" to the image. I would definitely opt for the VW60 over the VW50. The one I had was clearly sharper, better color uniformity, no bright corners, better black level, etc.

I've recently sold the VW60 and I'm hunting for a new projector. Don't get me wrong, the VW60 absolutely outperforms the H79. The image depth comment related to the VW50. It just has a different "look" to the image. I would definitely opt for the VW60 over the VW50. The one I had was clearly sharper, better color uniformity, no bright corners, better black level, etc.

This will probably make Jason and Richard's eyes roll but I've been similarly conflicted after my recent order.

I originally wanted the VW60 for many reasons but ordered the Pro UB from Richard based on his remarks about lower black levels. Now I'm having doubts and need to make a decision fast as the unit may be arriving at avs this coming week.

I have a old (first generation/2003) 100" diag., 16:9, (.95 gain) Gray Hawk. My old Sanyo PLV-70 was 2200 lumens after calibration and was mounted on a pedestal with a 15' throw. The room has light colored walls but I don't think this is too much of a concern as I only watch HD movies at night. I don't expect my next pj to be as bright but would like to get at least 12fl after calibration.

My goal is to get as close to the depth/3D I see in stores on the high end flat panels demoing animation on Blu-ray. I've seen Ice Age on a Fujitsu that was incredible. Now I don't expect that but I'd like to get as close as possible.

So...should I stick with the UB or ask Richard to switch me to the VW60 (I believe the prices are the same) or should I stretch for the RS1?

Rob,

Did you have the Epson at one point?

Thanks,

ck

So...should I stick with the UB or ask Richard to switch me to the VW60 (I believe the prices are the same) or should I stretch for the RS1?

Rob,

Did you have the Epson at one point?

Thanks,

ck


I actually liked the VW60 enough that I've considered buying one again. I'm not too big of a fan of LCD. Believe it or not I've never owned an Epson :D but I did stay at a Holiday in last night. The VW60 and RS1 are apparently priced similar through AVS. I picked up one of the demos so I guess it would be a no brainer. I really like the lens control on the Pearl though. The JVC lens control (on the RS1) seems toyish like the H79. On the H79 it often took a bit of playing with to get the gears to catch.

I think I'm going to stick with an RS1 and use my 77mm Hoya ND filter. I prefer deeper blacks over too mutch brightness. If I decide it is not enough performance I'm going to go with the RS2 or at least demo a VP15s1 to see if I'm sensitive to it's color seperation.

I actually liked the VW60 enough that I've considered buying one again....I'm not too big of a fan of LCD. Believe it or not I've never owned an Epson :D but I did stay at a Holiday in last night. The VW60 and RS1 are apparently priced similar through AVS....

I remember reading a comment someone made re: the RS1 (I think he was comparing it to the AE2000). Basically the person said that the value of the RS1 was minimal in comparison unless one had full light control (i.e. bat cave).

Did you have the AE2000 at one time?


ck

I remember reading a comment someone made re: the RS1 (I think he was comparing it to the AE2000). Basically the person said that the value of the RS1 was minimal in comparison unless one had full light control (i.e. bat cave).

Did you have the AE2000 at one time?


ck

Yes. It was great for an LCD but I was concerned about the build quality (iris issues) and dust blobs. Far better than the previous Pannys though.

Reading Art's great review (ProjectorReviews) of the VW60, it seems as if he felt as if it was the equal of the RS1. Considering it has a remote lens and doesn't need a Lumagen to correct it, it may be a better projector. On the other hand, the RS1 has a native contrast that is far better than the VW60's and it is brighter. Now I'm really anxious to evaluate the RS1 but the RS2 is EXTREMELY tempting.

I remember reading a comment someone made re: the RS1 (I think he was comparing it to the AE2000). Basically the person said that the value of the RS1 was minimal in comparison unless one had full light control (i.e. bat cave).

Did you have the AE2000 at one time?


ck

You know I wonder if this whole thing about needing the bat cave to tell the difference is a little overblown. I know that it can make a difference, but in my temporary test area, I can still see a good bit of difference between each projector that has been in there. I know that the bat cave can help with overall picture quality and my finished HT will be batcaveish, but I can still see lots of difference in shadow detail projector to projector.

I am wondering if this is just something that somebody came up with. I agree that in a sunlit room, there won't be any difference, but in a room with full light control and light ceiling/walls, you can still see a huge amount of difference between the projectors. In this case I am talking about differences between G15, HD2K, RS1, and RS2.

The batcave will help with ANSI contrast, but is not necessary for on-off contrast. As long as you have control over ambient light you should notice the difference.

Yeah, not everyone can have a bat cave. I did at one time but it really wasn't practical at least for that home. I think alot of us have rooms that must multi-task to a degree. Especially when it comes to middle of the day-afternoon football watching. But alot of these can & do still look rather good with some ambient light.

Granted, the experience is richer if you can get to that dark bat cave environment. Last night watching 3:10 to Yuma on Blu-ray, we had it pretty much dark. Just a little light in the kitchen over the sink...but it looked great and we were absorbed in one of the best films of 2007.

These two posts have me second guessing paying TWICE the price for an RS2 ( RS1 First Impression (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12391375#post12391375) and another impression. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12420857#post12420857)).

Robz,

Since you are coming from DLP, have you ever saw a Benq w10000 in person or why it is not among the projectors you'll consider.

I haven't had a DLP since the H79 a couple of years ago. I'm more recently coming from LCOS (VW50, VW60). I'm sensitive to DLP single chippers so it's not a first choice for me.

My Neutral Density filter has arrived, so I'll be seeing what that does to my RS1 tonight. I also have a High Power that I have set up next to my grey screen. At the moment it is way too bright. Either I have an exceptionally bright RS1, or some of you guys like to sunbathe from your pictures.

:)

My Neutral Density filter has arrived, so I'll be seeing what that does to my RS1 tonight. I also have a High Power that I have set up next to my grey screen. At the moment it is way too bright. Either I have an exceptionally bright RS1, or some of you guys like to sunbathe from your pictures.

:)


Great Steve! I'm definitely looking forward to your thoughts. I prefer a little less bright image with blacker blacks. ND filters have always been a favorite of mine for this reason.

check this out, ultimateavmag.com has a nice comparison...

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/208sonyvw60/index4.html

These two posts have me second guessing paying TWICE the price for an RS2 ( RS1 First Impression (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12391375#post12391375) and another impression. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12420857#post12420857)).

First link seems to backup the idea that one would benefit more from the increased contrast with better light control:

"Ok black level is better in 0 light conditions you can see fine details you did not see with the HD-1"

However, I would think that Cameron is correct in that some degree of improvement would still be noticed in non-dedicated rooms. The 64k dollar question is - how much?

Has anyone seen both the RS1 and the Epson UB? I don't think I can cancel my order (not because of avs but rather my impatience) and wait for Art's shoot-out in two weeks. Hmmm, I wonder if avs has ever agreed to sell two PJs with the knowledge that one WILL be returned?


ck

FWIW,

In a different room, on different screens, I Have watched about 800 hours on an RS-1 and about a half dozen movies and four football games on a VW-60.

I am one of the people that is bothered by the oversaturation of the JVC's. I like the RS-1 better overall than the VW-60.

It is the contrast ratio in mixed scenes and the Gleam in the eyes or from the sun's reflections from a car hood, or the gleam of the lights off a football helmet that I really like.

The RS-1 is on a highpower, with viewing "in the cone" and the Vw-60 is on screen with gain somewhere around unity gain.

In mixed scenes, I would miss the blacks on the RS-1 if I were to go to a VW-60.

Thankfully, there is an affordable processor to take care of the CMS and CIH needs that were left out of the RS-1.

Also, with CIH and my VC lens, I will probably be putting my RS-1 back in the equipment room. With that placement, since aesthetics would no longer be an issue, I might be able to get the focus control from an old g-10 that I have laying around, and find a solution to use that on the RS-1. LOL, but maybe not kidding. :) A small PLC might help out.

Best Regards,
Doug

Edit - Both theaters are very dark and have full light control.

Thanks Doug. Your thoughts seem to be in line with what most have said. The RS1, though oversaturated, is still a bit better than the VW60. Thanks to Lumagen, things will get even better.

check this out, ultimateavmag.com has a nice comparison...

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/208sonyvw60/index4.html


Good comparison article

Good comparison article

It is a pretty decent comparison article. It would be nice to have the RS2 in that comparison mix also.

It is a pretty decent comparison article. It would be nice to have the RS2 in that comparison mix also.

That wouldn't be nice for my wallet.

Aw comeon, you know you are going to get the RS2. :D

You just need to listen to your heart!

Aw comeon, you know you are going to get the RS2. :D

You just need to listen to your heart!


No if I listen to that stupid thing, I'll end up with a Sim2HT5000 and a 20' wide screen. :D

Yeah I recommend that you DON'T go see Art's setup.

I tried out the ND filter last night. First off, I bought the filter very cheaply off eBay and so have doubts about it's quality. It is an ND2 of unknown Chinese origin.

Overall, there was surprisingly little difference with it, whether on my grey screen or with the High Power. Much less difference than I would have expected by cutting light output in half. The High Power was still way too bright, and the blacks on it much worse than the grey screen. There was minimal improvement in blacks on the grey screen.

The most noticeable affect was on the whites, and not in a positive way.

I may try an ND4 filter, but so far would say that adding a ND filter to the RS1 does not turn it into an RS2.

I tried out the ND filter last night. First off, I bought the filter very cheaply off eBay and so have doubts about it's quality. It is an ND2 of unknown Chinese origin.

Overall, there was surprisingly little difference with it, whether on my grey screen or with the High Power. Much less difference than I would have expected by cutting light output in half. The High Power was still way too bright, and the blacks on it much worse than the grey screen. There was minimal improvement in blacks on the grey screen.

The most noticeable affect was on the whites, and not in a positive way.

I may try an ND4 filter, but so far would say that adding a ND filter to the RS1 does not turn it into an RS2.


Steve, from what I know it is better to use a anti-glare coated ND glass filter like a Hoya Multi-coated to reduce reflection (which will apparently decrease the CR). I've read (but I have no true evidence) that angling the ND filter fill further reduce the reflection and thus minimize loss of CR due to the light scattering back into the lens.

It definitely will not turn it into an RS2 (does not change the CR) but it should do well if you feel like there is too much brightness. I recently used it with the bright HC4900 and it brought the black level down to acceptable (instead of poor).

I wonder if this time next year there will be black level discussions about the RS2 when a new JVC model comes out.

Yes, if I liked the results I was going to get a Hoya HMC.

Good thread & I've enjoyed reading so far. As a new owner of the 'original' Sony Pearl, (will arrive Monday!) I will finally be making my way into this territory. Eventhough the newer Black Pearl & certainly the RS2 are reported to be better, the reviews for the Pearl aren't too shabby either.

Good luck Rob.

Congrats! The VW50 is a great unit for sure.

This will probably make Jason and Richard's eyes roll but I've been similarly conflicted after my recent order.

I originally wanted the VW60 for many reasons but ordered the Pro UB from Richard based on his remarks about lower black levels. Now I'm having doubts and need to make a decision fast as the unit may be arriving at avs this coming week.

I have a old (first generation/2003) 100" diag., 16:9, (.95 gain) Gray Hawk. My old Sanyo PLV-70 was 2200 lumens after calibration and was mounted on a pedestal with a 15' throw. The room has light colored walls but I don't think this is too much of a concern as I only watch HD movies at night. I don't expect my next pj to be as bright but would like to get at least 12fl after calibration.

My goal is to get as close to the depth/3D I see in stores on the high end flat panels demoing animation on Blu-ray. I've seen Ice Age on a Fujitsu that was incredible. Now I don't expect that but I'd like to get as close as possible.

So...should I stick with the UB or ask Richard to switch me to the VW60 (I believe the prices are the same) or should I stretch for the RS1?

Rob,

Did you have the Epson at one point?

Thanks,

ck

Both are good. How is that for a diplomatic answer? :) Seriously, you really can't go wrong with either. The best thing I can suggest is go with your gut, and remember that you get our Platinum Guarantee. If you don't like it, send it back. We'll get you something you do like.

...and remember that you get our Platinum Guarantee. If you don't like it, send it back. We'll get you something you do like.

Jason, does the Platinum Guarantee cover the JVC demo RS1's too? If I try it and immediately decide I'd prefer the RS2 is it exchangeable?

Unfortunately no. The RS1 open box special was done as a final sale due to the super low pricing.

I will give you the Platinum guarantee :) - if you don't like your RS1, email or pm me and I will buy it from you, as long as it isn't defective.... I missed the deal by a few hours.

Jason, does the Platinum Guarantee cover the JVC demo RS1's too? If I try it and immediately decide I'd prefer the RS2 is it exchangeable?

I've been thinking about it. If the RS2 were under $2k more than the resell value of the RS1 I would go for it. Twice the price is hard to justify. Trust me, I've searched for posts comparing:

Post #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13037378#post13037378)

Post #2 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12391375#post12391375)

Post #3 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12420857#post12420857)

Post #4 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11879661#post11879661)

From what I'm thinking, it sounds like the RS2 is among the best available (at any price) but could still be very easily improved with a few additions to the next model. Fully motorized lens control, CMS, improved ANSI CR (the same on RS1 and RS2) etc.

Someone who knows the RS1 very well and has tested more than one RS2 has told me that the RS2 has a better lens, black level, and software but likely not $2-3K worth of improvement (if using the $3k as the price of an RS1). Of course at the current price of a new RS1 it should be somewhat obvious that the better choice would be the RS2.

Surprisingly, the Sony VW40 produces a slightly sharper image (than the Epson). It almost looks like they’ve got some edge sharpening algorithm going, I’ll take a closer look. Based on initial impression it seems sharper than the VW60, which would be equally surprising.
- says Art

Surprisingly, the Sony VW40 produces a slightly sharper image (than the Epson). It almost looks like they’ve got some edge sharpening algorithm going, I’ll take a closer look. Based on initial impression it seems sharper than the VW60, which would be equally surprising.
- says Art

Well that would be really cool if it were sharper without some algorithm going on. I like to see progression!

Well, the funny thing about this field is how good the hardware really is. I have a fully calibrated JVC G11 now that I'm selling - the picture is still excellent, even for 5 + years, but for the amount I paid and time to calibrate etc., it is really really amazing how awesome these new units are for the price (and out of the box...)

I've been reading all of the RS1 threads for some time now - getting close to finish up a new theater and I really like this and the RS2 units... I've seen all of the other competition and I'm continually drawn back to the picture on JVC...

Personally, I've always loved the optics on the JVC - even my G11 had some of the best out there - razor sharp images and complemented by feeding it all PC processed video using excellent video cards at the panel resolution - no artifacts etc. (Since the older units didn't have as good of video processor as these new home theater projectors) but they have always produced excellent video quality based on source and processing. I'm always surprised when I walk into HT stores and they only carry Sony, then telling me that this is the only reliable unit out there... anyway, sorry for the thread diversion.

Brian

These two posts have me second guessing paying TWICE the price for an RS2 ( RS1 First Impression (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12391375#post12391375) and another impression. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12420857#post12420857)).

Rob Just like you I like the pop of Dlp but I get headaches from single chip projectors so I am trying to decide between and RS2 or a Siim2 ht380 .

Interesting in Greg Rogers Review he increased the gamma, taking advantage of the huge on/off contrast and stated that doing this gave the RS2 a pop of a dlp which had the best ANSI contrast he had ever measured 835/1


Has anyone else done this and what were the results? Did you perceive this dramatic change?

I like a lot about the single chip dlps. I get that strain/headache thing too. To me it is worse than the RBE.

If you get that strain, why are you even considering it? Now maybe one of the 3 chip DLPs might fit the bill better. (or RS2)

On the other hand, the strain might be less for you than it is for me. I also have the ability to get freakin sick while watching Halo or any other FPS on the big screen.

Rob Just like you I like the pop of Dlp but I get headaches from single chip projectors so I am trying to decide between and RS2 or a Siim2 ht380 .

Interesting in Greg Rogers Review he increased the gamma, taking advantage of the huge on/off contrast and stated that doing this gave the RS2 a pop of a dlp which had the best ANSI contrast he had ever measured 835/1


Has anyone else done this and what were the results? Did you perceive this dramatic change?


Keep in mind that with the RS1, you may possibly be able to do the same with the gamma using a Lumagen HDP.

Anyone have a bit more info on a comparison between this Epson and the RS1?

Thanks