Infocus IN83?? heard anything?

Admittedly I haven't been looking for a new unit, but, no, I personally haven't heard anything. If there was a unit I would have been surprised that it wasn't shown at CES (unless of course it was).
Kras may have better information...

look at this www.cine4home.de/Meldungen/Infocus/FullHd/FullHDIN83.htm , sorry but I'm not able to post the link correctly.

Link needs help ;)
http://www.cine4home.de/Meldungen/Infocus/FullHd/FullHDIN83.htm

www.cine4home.de/Meldungen/Infocus/FullHd/FullHDIN83.htm should be better! Yes now it works

It hasn't been announced yet but it will be the dark chip 4 version. That's all I know.

Reading the babelfish translation it said "using the same chassis" but with the darkchip 4 boosting brightness and contrast a tad.

Basierend auf dem selben Chassis wie seine kleinen Brüder bietet der neue PlayBig IN83 noch mehr Helligkeit (bis zu 1600 Lumen) und einen noch höheren nativen Kontrast (5000:1).

If they would only move to a 5x or 6x speed color wheel, or at least give us that menu option.

The 4x speed wheel on the IN82 is a big problem for the rainbow sensitive.

I vote for lens of an offset. 36% makes it tough for many...

Jason, I vote for less of an offset, lens of an offset, sounds like B stock.

i was all set to get a in82 for a big smx screen then this...

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/infocus-1080p-dlp-play-big-in83-projector-surfaces/

hopefully the offset and the manual adjustments are addressed.

Same offset:

I hope they speed up the color wheel a little more as well. I also hope the blacker than black problem is resolved.

From specs posted:

Projection Lens:

Manual 1.2x Zoom Manual zoom 1.2x
F 2.6 - 2.8 F 2.6 - 2.8
f 39.1 - 46.9m F 39.1 - 46.9m
136% offset Offset 136%

According to this website: http://www.techfresh.net/gadgets/hdtv/infocus-in83-projector/ the MSRP will be $6948.

So IF is only charging $1000 for the DC4. A bargain.

I posted this yesterday but the database error erased it... Does Infocus quote brightness specs that are close to the calibrated end result or is the 1600 lumen spec way higher than we will get a d65?

InFocus specs are typically quite close to D65, they're really pretty boring as far as calibration goes. You can check out Jason's review though, I think he got over 1000 lumens from the 82 with the IRIS all the way open.

This blog/article claims that there's a digital vertical lens shift. Is digital different than moving the actual optics- meaning keystone correction?


"In line with the InFocus philosophy, the IN83 is tuned for action out-of-the-box, but include additional user-friendly features such as automatic colour gamut and black level calibration, and digital vertical lens shift. For more specific tuning, the IN83 can be customised to individual requirements using the InFocus Colour Gamut Calibrator and ISF Day & Night presets, which allow installers to “lock in” optimised calibration settings. For added versatility, an optional anamorphic lens attachment, in combination with the projectors’ sophisticated on-board video processing, allows 2.35:1 movies to be viewed utilising their full 1920 x 1080 resolution."

http://avblog.co.uk/?p=597

This blog/article claims that there's a digital vertical lens shift. Is digital different than moving the actual optics- meaning keystone correction?

Digital lens shift (AKA image shift) is different than optical lens shift (which is different than keystone correction). Digital shift allows you to move the image vertically within the 16:9 frame. It’s especially useful for masking off 2.35:1 movies – you just move the image to the bottom of the screen (or top) and mask off the dark area. That’s easier than trying to mask 2 letterbox bars. It does not allow you to move the full 16:9 image though.

Optical lens shift allows you to move the image on your wall (sometimes vertically only, sometimes both vertically and horizontally) while keeping proper geometry (i.e. not having to keystone). This makes setup much easier.

Keystone correction is an electronic processing of the image to correct for setups where the PJ is not square to the wall and a trapezoidal image results. It is generally not recommended because it can compromise image quality.

If they would only move to a 5x or 6x speed color wheel, or at least give us that menu option.

The 4x speed wheel on the IN82 is a big problem for the rainbow sensitive.

hmm no rainbow issue here.......guess I am immune! :D

geezes... $6300 v $5499? That is a hefty price increase!

Digital shift allows you to move the image vertically within the 16:9 frame.

r u saying the new IF is capable of this ? I can't even get this in a lumagen cutting edge video processor.

The IN82 does the same thing with shift. It's nothing new.

The IN82 does the same thing with shift. It's nothing new.

yep!
and of course the 4:3 stretch for anamorphic lens setup too! :)

UP
There are rumors it'll be shipping next week over here, is IT possible you do not have any?

Can you share where you heard about this? Also, where is "over here"?

Bill

Europe, swiss. Someone from an Italian forum as it in order from a swiss shop.
Expecting to receive next week, 4500euro.

Bump, any more info on this projector? Like US availability?

Sorry,guys but seems it'll be delayed. At the moment the one who as purchased the unit told us he is expecting it for the end of march. We think that if it get the same improvment of marantz with the new chip, sould be a pretty machine.

I don't think TI is making too many DC4 chips still, that is probably the hold up. I agree this machine should be great. I think I may have to hang out for this one.

Anyone know if they have given this has a faster color wheel, or given us the option to choose speeds like the BenQ? I hope they also fix the blacker than black problem that the IN82 has.

Sorry,guys but seems it'll be delayed. At the moment the one who as purchased the unit told us he is expecting it for the end of march. We think that if it get the same improvment of marantz with the new chip, sould be a pretty machine.

i think it will be a 6x wheel and the pj will start shipping on the 10th of March from the factory

i think it will be a 6x wheel and the pj will start shipping on the 10th of March from the factory

Really? Where is this information coming from? I hope you are right...

I saw the IN-83 running at ISE 2008 a few weeks ago, at the show in Amsterdam. Am a newbie in projector / home theatre land but it did impress me. Also took a look at the Sony VW-200 (wow) and a Sim 3 chip DLP projector (wow 2x).

Saw a few scenes of Apocalypto playing on a 100" screen with the IN-83 but that was enough to impress me. Wasn't sensitive to the RBE effect in those scenes and the sales rep told me everything except brightness settings where out of the box. Colours seemed very natural to me. The image really had a nice pop. Pans seemed smooth, and motion was very natural in scenes with fast motion (the main charactur running around in the jungle, being chased).

That's all I can say. I'll leave the rest for the experts :)

/edit: oh and I have a spec sheet infront of me right now. Doesn't say how fast the colorwheel runs.

Please post the spec sheet.

Please post the spec sheet.


http://www.quantumelectronics.co.uk/links/IN83-Brochure.pdf

D

same offset as IN82?

According to the spec sheet, yep, 136%.

i think it will be a 6x wheel and the pj will start shipping on the 10th of March from the factory

/edit: oh and I have a spec sheet infront of me right now. Doesn't say how fast the colorwheel runs.

Pambs - just curious where you heard about the 6x wheel. If it is a 6x wheel, I believe that would be a 1st for InFocus. AFAIK, up to this point the fastest refresh rate IF has used has been 4x (and that includes the 72xx series, which incorrectly had 5x listed as the refresh on the marketing material).

I found this older post by Bob Williams (former IF engineer) about color wheel speed interesting. Many believe that the faster, the better. Looks like there's a tradeoff though, so if 4x is enough for you to not see RBE, 5x and beyond may actually hurt the image. Food for thought...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=6939328&postcount=250

Yep, every thing is a trade off. Best option is have the color wheel speed adjustable like BenQ has. This way the user can select what works best for them. Faster color wheel also produces more noise.

If I had to only have one speed I don't know that I would want a 6x wheel but maybe a 5x wheel would be better to reduce possibility of RBE especially on a bright projector like this.

I have never seen rainbows so I guess I should want a 4x wheel to reduce unwanted artifacts and noise. I just have heard RBE is more visible on brighter projectors so I was hoping for a little faster color wheel.


I found this older post by Bob Williams (former IF engineer) about color wheel speed interesting. Many believe that the faster, the better. Looks like there's a tradeoff though, so if 4x is enough for you to not see RBE, 5x and beyond may actually hurt the image. Food for thought...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=6939328&postcount=250

I found this older post by Bob Williams (former IF engineer) about color wheel speed interesting. Many believe that the faster, the better.

Its all about the bigger number in marketing - there is no number for motion dithering - therefore it does not count as a relevant tradeoff :rolleyes:

dangc

the problem with adjustable features is there is no optimization target by engineering - either it does everything OK - or one thing great!

Its all about the bigger number in marketing - there is no number for motion dithering - therefore it does not count as a relevant tradeoff :rolleyes:

dangc

the problem with adjustable features is there is no optimization target by engineering - either it does everything OK - or one thing great!

I am sure you are right about that. Is it true that the brighter the projector the easier it will be to see rainbows?

Jason,

Have you heard anything on this projector yet? US availability?

bump

Marc/Jason- any pricing in the AVS system on the IN83 yet?
Thanks,
Frank

My Infocus 5700 had a 5-X color wheel, so Infocus are not strangers to higher speed color wheels. Dithering was distinctly more noticeable on the 5700 than my current projector, the IF 7210. With all things equal (NR2 filter on both) I can say that the rainbow effect is no more noticeable to me on the 7210 than it was on the 5700.

Also, from my personal experience I can say with conviction that image brightness makes a big difference in the perception of RBE.

The Infocus 5700 marketing had a 5x colorwheel - the actual engineering was 4x - owned up to on this forum by BobWilliams - they retreated from 5x for technical reasons. But it is funny that when people believed it was 5x - they saw less RBE.

SP7210 was a later generation DarkChip than the SP5700 which was responsible for the less dithering - nothing to do with the color wheel.

Thanks Kras,

I guess that explains why I found the RBE on the 7210 no more objectionable (actually maybe a bit less) than on the supposedly faster 5700.

Actually the throw and offset ratio on this new machine is very similar to the 5700, so it would be a good fit for me when I upgrade my 7210 down the road. I had to move the 7210 forward into the room by just over a foot, but I would have preferred it all the way back.

I don't understand this craving for tiny offsets. How high is the average ceiling? Or are people just going with screens that fill up their entire back wall?

r u saying the new IF is capable of this ? I can't even get this in a lumagen cutting edge video processor.

What version is your Lumagen? I can certainly move the image up/down left/right under config option, I have Lumagen HDQ last years firmware..I will upgrade to the latest firmware when I get a chance, it says that it fixes a bug that stutters when you input 1080p/24p and output to 1080/24p..

Marc/Jason- any pricing in the AVS system on the IN83 yet?
Thanks,
Frank

You've got mail! :)

Does anyone here know which anamorphic lens can be matched with an IN82/83 at or near minimum zoom? It looks like the lens is recessed, so I am concerned the beam would be to big.

......But it is funny that when people believed it was 5x - they saw less RBE. .....


The power of suggestion! :rolleyes:

is there an msrp on this yet?
if more than $1500 are those improvements worth it over the in82?

You must be at 2.0 and greater on the zoom for the Prismasonic 1500, the bigger lenses will be fine on the lower end of zoom but you will have to deal with some additional pin-cushioning.

Does anyone here know which anamorphic lens can be matched with an IN82/83 at or near minimum zoom? It looks like the lens is recessed, so I am concerned the beam would be to big.

is there an msrp on this yet?
if more than $1500 are those improvements worth it over the in82?

I am assuming the IN82 still has an MSRP of $5499?

It is always difficult if not impossible to quantify the $ value that a technolgical advancement is worth to us when we measure the value subjectively.

So the question for me is weather or not the increased contrast of the DC4 chip and dynamic black along with the increase in brightness is worth the extra $1500. I say yes it is. I plan to keep this projector for a while and buying the latest technology will keep the upgrade bug away longer. Yes the price of DC4 will fall but I will have enjoyed the better picture for longer than those who wait for the price to drop and that equates to value.

So if the street price of the IN83 is only $1500 more than the IN82 I am in! If it is too much more than that it will have gone over my price range and I will have to rethink this.

Does anyone here know which anamorphic lens can be matched with an IN82/83 at or near minimum zoom? It looks like the lens is recessed, so I am concerned the beam would be to big.

The minimum throw for the IN83 is 1.85x, so despite the recessed lens, it will work with well the Panamorph UH380 and Prismasonic H-5000. Both of these lenses have large apertures, and typically work down to a 1.5x throw.

MAP on the IN82 was just dropped to $4999.

MAP on the IN82 was just dropped to $4999.

Jeez, they're really rocking the boat now, eh? When are these manufacturers going to realize that customers are either going to pay half as much for 90% the quality...or twice as much for %110 the quality, there's just not very much value in the IN82 compared to any number of other pjs. Its just such a competitive market that for them them to discount a product less than 10% a year after it hit the market when technology advances as quickly as it does, is ridiculous.

I'm spoiled, I know it, and these manufacturers better start keeping up...

Tell me this...why do DLP projectors more than a decade after their mass market release still command 50% more than their LCD counterparts. There is now an LCD on the market that outputs a real world 4000:1 on/off; 400+:1 ANSI...this is definitely in the ballpark of DLP yet the prices don't reflect this. My point with the decade thing was that they used to say that the R&D costs had to be recouped...what does it take 30-40 years? I think its suicide for technology not to be price competitive...anybody seen a razor?:eek:

Tell me this...why do DLP projectors more than a decade after their mass market release still command 50% more than their LCD counterparts. There is now an LCD on the market that outputs a real world 4000:1 on/off; 400+:1 ANSI...this is definitely in the ballpark of DLP yet the prices don't reflect this.

DLP can still best that by about 50%. No other technology can match the sharpness, perfect convergence (for single-chip), or perfect uniformity of DLP.

Beyond that though, LCoS is really the competitor to DLP, and their prices are right in line with DLP.

My point with the decade thing was that they used to say that the R&D costs had to be recouped...what does it take 30-40 years?

Each new chip has R&D costs. The Sharp 12k MKII is quite a bargain these days.

I think its suicide for technology not to be price competitive...anybody seen a razor?:eek:

If they're happy with the volume at current prices, who's to say there's anything wrong with the current pricing.

MAP on the IN82 was just dropped to $4999.
And it looks like the MAP on the IN81 was dropped to $3699 from $3999.

Tell me this...why do DLP projectors more than a decade after their mass market release still command 50% more than their LCD counterparts. There is now an LCD on the market that outputs a real world 4000:1 on/off; 400+:1 ANSI...this is definitely in the ballpark of DLP yet the prices don't reflect this. My point with the decade thing was that they used to say that the R&D costs had to be recouped...what does it take 30-40 years? I think its suicide for technology not to be price competitive...anybody seen a razor?:eek:
Yawnnnnnn....I've been reading that argument for years. The simple answer is because the market supports a higher price for DLP. Enough people see an advantage to it over LCD to justify the higher cost. The prices will drop when the market dictates they drop.

EDIT: And I'll add that it's a falacy that DLP is always more expensive than LCD. There are budget DLPs (e.g Optoma) that closely compete with LCD prices, and there are high end DLPs (e.g Marantz) that cost much more. Infocus is in the middle. When you buy a projector, you're not just buying the DLP/LCoS/LCD chip, you're paying for the lens quality, the build quality, the processing, etc. That can impact the cost more than the chip used. Mfgs of LCD projectors have chosen to target the low to mid price ranges and built their PJs to those price points.

:)

Yawnnnnnn....I've been reading that argument for years. The simple answer is because the market supports a higher price for DLP. Enough people see an advantage to it over LCD to justify the higher cost. The prices will drop when the market dictates they drop.

Actually, it is quite the opposite. LCDs have higher sales volume and can be sold at cheaper prices due to the economies of scale and the fact that TI maintains a strangle hold on the DLP licensing rights. This does not mean that DLPs will not be sold as they have their fan-base just as LCDs and LCOS do - that is what "commands" the higher price.

As for the LCOS comment, yes, the RS1 and RS2 are similarly priced to some DLP machines, but there are also sub $3K LCOS based machines that have worse CR than similarly priced LCDs. The fact is, all three technologies compete with one another, it is just a question of with which trade-offs you are willing to live before you choose your technology.

Actually, it is quite the opposite. LCDs have higher sales volume and can be sold at cheaper prices due to the economies of scale and the fact that TI maintains a strangle hold on the DLP licensing rights. This does not mean that DLPs will not be sold as they have their fan-base just as LCDs and LCOS do - that is what "commands" the higher price.

The "fan-base" you refer to IS the market, so I don't see how you're saying something that is the opposite of my original point.

Since this is getting way OT, I will make this my last word on the topic. :)

If this projector has better black level than the IN82, and can keep it's lumens it's gonna be a nice little projector. The IN82 was a light canon. Looked good too. Yeah, the 136% kinda stinks but for those people who want a bright picture, this may just be the ticket. Can't wait to see it and try it out.

Richard

is there an msrp on this yet?
if more than $1500 are those improvements worth it over the in82?

I own an 82 and on a studiotek 130 I wouldnt pay 10 bucks for more lumens, ... maybe on payday.. $25 for more contrast.

Fix the throw & offset .... the kids college fund will suffer.

hibo

I have put in my pre-order for the IN83 and can't wait to get it in house. I can say this is one time I am very happy I waited and didn't get the IN82 when I originally was going to.

Hibo,

I understand your position on the value of extra contrast and lumens and if I had an IN82 I would feel the same way. Are you happy with the projector other than the offset and throw? For me the throw ratio is not a problem because I want my throw to be at least a 2 times the width of my screen for my HE anamporphic lens anyway. But the offset is a real pain!

Tell me this...why do DLP projectors more than a decade after their mass market release still command 50% more than their LCD counterparts. There is now an LCD on the market that outputs a real world 4000:1 on/off; 400+:1 ANSI...this is definitely in the ballpark of DLP yet the prices don't reflect this.

Show me an LCD or a LCOS machine that will produce 1100 lumens when calibrated? That for me is the key difference and why I will pay for it. Bottom line, there just are not many projectors below $10K that will put out those lumens for those of us that want a big screen.

I have put in my pre-order for the IN83 and can't wait to get it in house. I can say this is one time I am very happy I waited and didn't get the IN82 when I originally was going to.

Hibo,

I understand your position on the value of extra contrast and lumens and if I had an IN82 I would feel the same way. Are you happy with the projector other than the offset and throw? For me the throw ratio is not a problem because I want my throw to be at least a 2 times the width of my screen for my HE anamporphic lens anyway. But the offset is a real pain!

Dangc,
Our movie group gets together twice a week for nearly 15 years. We had a good 720 setup with dalite screen. Nobody wanted me to upgrade, these old salts were content and were afraid of the dimmer 1080Ps. "Dont freaking touch it".

After upgrades: IN82 and blueray they have come to a place "this like watching a sequel of my favorite movies, so much more to enjoy.... get out the old epics, this thing just jumps out at you, what took you so long to upgrade".

But none of us were expecting the bump in the picture after installing a SF Studiotek 130. The colors and sharpness, a big wow factor. The most jaded of our movie goers "this looks like an lcd, looks like my 24 inch dell monitor".

A megabit on the offset, I tilted the screen about 2 in and with 8 feet ceiling the topofpicture is about 16 inches. (100 in wide) . Another, BDs seem to be formatted for wider screens like 2.35, the picture shift can be used on those to raise the viewable even higher.

So it might not be easy, but it's all good. Let me know about the 83, I cant wait to upgrade.

Hibo

The "fan-base" you refer to IS the market, so I don't see how you're saying something that is the opposite of my original point.

Since this is getting way OT, I will make this my last word on the topic. :)

No, the market as you used the term is the home theater projector market, which consists of buyers choosing DLP, LCOS, and LCD projectors. That is how it is different.

I claimed DLP projector manufacturers are subject to market dynamics regarding the price of their product. You claimed the opposite is true (whatever that means) - and stated that TI licensing rights and LCD economies of scale is the only reason for differences in price between LCD and DLP. I couldn't disagree more.

DLP is not a monopoly. If the price that DLP projector mfgs want to charge (or TI for that matter) is too high, consumers are free to choose other technologies if they feel performance is comparable. It's as simple as that. Evidently enough of the market is choosing to pay DLP prices to justify them...

That's it for me. This time I REALLY mean I won't post on this OT tangent. :D

mmm...
in switzerland the IN83 is in stock, ready to ship. I wonder how it is possible that no one on the internet posted a review or a first look...
Upgrade fever is high.

We'll be getting a unit soon enough to review. We have a PO in with our distributor for some local installs and stock.

Aside from the 136% lens shift, I can't wait to see how this does compared to the IN82. A good single chip DLP and a light canon!

Richard

We'll be getting a unit soon enough to review. We have a PO in with our distributor for some local installs and stock.

Aside from the 136% lens shift, I can't wait to see how this does compared to the IN82. A good single chip DLP and a light canon!

Richard

Any idea on price yet?

AVSRichard,
do you know for sure about vertical lens shift ?
136% means that I can shift the projection 1 time and a third, up and down ?

royal oaks,
in europe the price is £ 3.490 (Gbp) or something above 4.000 euro

ciao,
ruva

In europa 5.000 euro + -.
In switzerland taxes are lower and costs 4,500 euros + -.

PM or email me for pricing.

I should have said vertical offset, not lens shift. That's what I get for posting late.

The projector, like the IN82, has to be 136% above the height of the screen. So if you have a 50 inch tall screen you must have the projector mounted at 68 inches, or 18 inches above the top of the screen.

Doesn't make it easy for every installation, but the strenghts usually outweigh this for people who have the room in their theater to do so.

Richard

That's it for me. This time I REALLY mean I won't post on this OT tangent. :D

I love when people take this stand to appear somehow superior or "taking the high ground" when posting a weak argument. :rolleyes:

Well I'm pretty sure the people buying DLP projectors think the picture they're seeing is worth what they're paying.

DLP ranks #1 for me with picture quality, then LCoS, then LCD. I'm not against any projector, they all have strengths and weaknesses. I have had SXRD (Sony's LCoS) in my theater, and not a DLP, but I wouldn't say people pay more and get less with DLP.

Richard

PM or email me for pricing.

I should have said vertical offset, not lens shift. That's what I get for posting late.

The projector, like the IN82, has to be 136% above the height of the screen. So if you have a 50 inch tall screen you must have the projector mounted at 68 inches, or 18 inches above the top of the screen.

Doesn't make it easy for every installation, but the strenghts usually outweigh this for people who have the room in their theater to do so.

Richard

Richard's Mostly Right .... Except, you can knock about half of the 36% off by tilting the projector and tilt the screen from 2 to 3 inches. The center of my lens is 5 inches off the ceiling and the topofscreen is 11 inches off the ceiling. 8 feet ceiling at 16 feet. The is a minor keystone left of about 3/4 inch but the frame masks it.

Because this projector is mostly mounted from the ceiling and potential buyers are mostly concerned about the how far down the screen must be mounted, I think it's helpful to refer to the offset as 36% of the viewable screen height. Then the measurement is from the ceiling to the topofscreen.

Maybe someone in here can help with what effect that minor tilting has on the vertical reflection cone of the IN82 relative to the sitting height.
hibo

Well you have to be careful with tilting, you can, in effect, stunt the effectiveness of angular reflective screens and also retro reflective.

It's a solution in a pinch though and if you don't need too much tilt, you should be fine.

Richard

Well you have to be careful with tilting, you can, in effect, stunt the effectiveness of angular reflective screens and also retro reflective.

It's a solution in a pinch though and if you don't need too much tilt, you should be fine.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I am planning to use the IN83 with a DIY Phifer Shearweave 4500 screen and will need to tilt between 3.5" to 4.5" for a 59" tall screen. Do you see that as a problem?

Pambs - just curious where you heard about the 6x wheel. If it is a 6x wheel, I believe that would be a 1st for InFocus.

I've not read the whole thread so this may have already been confirmed. But just in case.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=723032


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr.


Thank you for contacting InFocus Technical Support, and for your interest in our products.


The IN83 has 4 x color wheel speed, and the color wheel has 7 segments. This reduces the chances of seeing the color wheel artifact dramatically from the 1x and 2x 4-segment traditional systems where people were often affected.

However we do recommend that you go and experience a demo so that you can be absolutely sure of that the projector you buy will not cause you too much of a problem.


If you have further questions please let us know.


With best regards,






Øivind Solli
Service Manager EMEA
-------------------------------------------------------------------


D

Sounds like a great projector, had it only been more placement friendly.

Sounds like i may have to hold out for this instead of the IN82 to solve my wide-SMX screen with long throw issue.

Here is a spec sheet from IF:

http://www.infocus.com/Products/Projectors/IN83.aspx

Wonder if the chip and the lumen increase is a big step up?


Jason - can you give us a time frame regarding a review ?:D

InFocus doesn't have the db rating for its Whisper/Brite modes - did anyone see information on how loud this is anywhere else? One thing I hate about my Optoma HD81 is how loud it is.

PM or email me for pricing.

I should have said vertical offset, not lens shift. That's what I get for posting late.

The projector, like the IN82, has to be 136% above the height of the screen. So if you have a 50 inch tall screen you must have the projector mounted at 68 inches, or 18 inches above the top of the screen.

Doesn't make it easy for every installation, but the strenghts usually outweigh this for people who have the room in their theater to do so.

Richard

Richard What's the throw ratio for In82 and In83. I mean a dark chip 4 with brilliant color, putting out 1100 D65 lumens for an MSRP of 6000 dollars when a sim2 ht3000e has an MSRP of 16,000 and a marantz with a 400 lumen output is 15,000. sounds like very agressive pricing to me.

don't you mean the middle of the screen?

Richard What's the throw ratio for In82 and In83. I mean a dark chip 4 with brilliant color, putting out 1100 D65 lumens for an MSRP of 6000 dollars when a sim2 ht3000e has an MSRP of 16,000 and a marantz with a 400 lumen output is 15,000. sounds like very agressive pricing to me.

don't you mean the middle of the screen?

Sim2 and Marantz are higher end projectors with higher quality processors, lenses, offset etc. They are always more expensive.

The Infocus just happens to be the first of the more mid range Darkchip 4 machines.

This also has a dynamic iris, which is why how they can claim a 15000 to 1 on/off CR spec.

Sim2 and Marantz are higher end projectors with higher quality processors, lenses, offset etc. They are always more expensive.

The Infocus just happens to be the first of the more mid range Darkchip 4 machines.

This also has a dynamic iris, which is why how they can claim a 15000 to 1 on/off CR spec.

The IN83 doesn’t use Brilliant Color technology. Nor does it use a dynamic iris (a manual iris is used). And it has a 4X color wheel. When the IN82 came out (a year after most other 1080 DLP projectors), I was disappointed that it used “old” technology. Now I see negative comments on the use of Brilliant Color by the Optima and the new BenQ projectors. And poor implementations of DI on other projectors. Also the 4X color wheel is a plus. It produces less dithering noise than a 5X or above. Rainbows are not an issue for me and most other people.

Infocus Is barely keeping its head above water financially. So I figured they don’t have huge resources devoted to R&D. Instead they use existing technology coupled with TI’s most advanced DMD to achieve great results. 1600 D65 calibrated lumens. With 5000: 1 native contrast. The reviews on the IN82 indicated very good optics and video processing.

Sim2 and Marantz are higher end projectors with higher quality processors, lenses, offset etc. They are always more expensive.

The Infocus just happens to be the first of the more mid range Darkchip 4 machines.

This also has a dynamic iris, which is why how they can claim a 15000 to 1 on/off CR spec.

Or Sim2 Manufactures their units in Italy and Infocus manufacturers their units in China. I own a Sim2 and it did somethings marginally better than the infocus but I bought it because it fits my room. I personally can see very little difference between single chip DlP projectors at the same brightness level and resolution.

The non iris adjusted on off contrast is 5000:1 but if the Iris works well it is as effective as having a high on/off contrast in 90 percent of the scenes. Only when the scene has very bright objects against a black background, do you notice the difference between irs vs native on/off contrast

as far as better lenses, does anyone have MTF numbers for the various lenses used by the different projector manufacturers or has anyone measured the Mtf at the screen to see if any of these claims of superior resolution can actually be quantified ?

Im thinking damn the difference

cgros

The IN8x have an option to turn on BrilliantColor - it is just not marketed based on such video distortions...anymore than when the control was called WhitePeaking in the prior models. The default setup is for properly rendered video.

Of course while the lens is very good - I am pretty sure Marantz has said their lens cost as much as mid-fi PJs themselves. You do get what you pay for.

Kras

I’m aware that it’s an option on the IN82. But figured it was there for marketing purposes. Since the color wheel is not RGBCYM. I believe the proper design for using BC requires a wheel with the secondary colors. Also I’m hoping that the stated lumen output is with BC (such as it is) turned off.

The IN83 looks like a terrific projector. I just hope Infocus will be around for a few years more to support it.

Brilliant color supports multiple colorwheel wheel designs - those that don't have secondary color segments use the inbetween RGB zones to make them. There have been colorwheels with just RGBY and RGBYM - it is not required to have a RGBCYM wheel to support BC. In fact the more secondary color segments you have - the less primary color time you have - thus more dithering as well as darker primaries - so BC is flexible in the design tradeoffs to be made. The only purpose for BC is to make CMY and thus W brighter (which is why it is nothing but an improved white peaking control - which likewise supported clear segment or inbetween RGB colorwheel designs) - but that is not accurate video unless you also make RGB brighter - and you can only do that with a brighter lamp or paler primaries - which in turn brightens the secondaries.. BC cannot make a brighter more accurate picture - it just makes some of the picture brighter - which is not accurate video - it is just for marketing purposes to boost the specs.. I would much rather have more Red on the colorwheel than more secondary colors - that is how an optically optimized D65 is obtained. Last I checked Infocus was making perfect secondary colors without needing them on the wheel!

cgros,

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the IN83 is using a dynamic IRIS, and I don't see how they can claim 3 times native contrast ratios using an IRIS without it being dynamic.

cgros

The IN8x have an option to turn on BrilliantColor - it is just not marketed based on such video distortions...anymore than when the control was called WhitePeaking in the prior models. The default setup is for properly rendered video.

Of course while the lens is very good - I am pretty sure Marantz has said their lens cost as much as mid-fi PJs themselves. You do get what you pay for.

You almost never get what you paid for! Just because something cost more does not mean it is better. Again what is the the designed MTF ? what is the delivered MTF of these lenses and what is the delivered MTF on the screen

where was the lens manufactured

Brilliant color was invented by TI and is used by sim2 USA in their E projectors and by BenQ. When implemented properly and especially with pulsed lamp technology it increases lumnen output while retaining color accuracy.

dangc,

In the review done by UltimateAVmag.com, they state. “Fortunately, there's a manually adjustable iris (no dynamic mode) to tame this beast. There are 12 settings, from zero to the maximum of 100.” In the user manual for the IN82 there is no mention of an DI. But there’s no mention of the manual iris either.
Most likely the 15000:1 on/off is achieved using the lowest iris setting. I really don’t see any disadvantage to a manual iris. You can open the iris when the lamp dims over time. And realistically how effective are DIs? Wouldn’t the excellent ANSI contrast of a DC4 be quite good?

cgros,

I think your right, when it stated 15,000 to 1 with iris, I assumed incorrectly that meant dynamic iris.

I thought it would have both manual and dynamic like the new BenQ W20000 for instance.

I always thought that the best of both worlds would be to simply have a dynamic IRIS that closes down for the highest black levels for scenes that are mostly dark and rely on the inherent strengths of DLPs ansi contrast ratios to keep blacks black when there is more light.

Oh well, doesn't change my mind about my order for this. I am sure ANSI will be great and the Marantz 11s2 had great improvements in CR from the 15s2.

cgros: is the UAVmag review of the IN83 in their paper mag or are you referring to the review of the IN82?

In early announcements of the IN83 DynamicBlack was mentioned, that's probably where at least I got the impression that it would have it comes from. It was also said that DC4 would have this built in, though Iäm not sure what that means exactly. I can't find this info now so it does seem to not have it, which I think is a bummer.

Infocus also claims the IN82 to have 12000:1 using an iris (4000:1 native) and we know it doesn't have a DI and tests show it has pretty close to spec no matter which iris setting you have. So the IN82 doesn't seem to have a dual-iris design as Sharp and Marantz uses (one that lets you trade brightness for contrast) and unless the IN83 is different it will have very good native cr but nowhere near 15k:1 even in it's most closed iris position. It won't stop it from producing a great picture but for us blackoholics it may not cut it. I'll see this beast on saturday, will report back with impressions.

cgros.....I'll see this beast on saturday, will report back with impressions.

Anxious to hear your thoughts thereafter...

I can't wait to just fire one up and for a moment, forget all the questions and all the specs. Sometimes we forget that what we see and what we like which we see is the most important thing.

Then, I'll sigh, smile and start looking for all the info for the questions, lol.

Richard

Richard: I agree in principle. For me it's just that I know pretty well what absolute black level I'm happy with and with proper/accurate specs it makes it easier to see if this is a contender for me or not. I still won't buy a projector without viewing it first, it just helps in selecting what pjs to actually try to demo.

The shootout I attended wasn't really a traditional one where all projectors showed exactly the same material from the same feed/source = comparisons between shown models were difficult.

The IN83 is bright, bright and then some. I guess we knew that beforehand from the IN82 but even at iris 45 (below medium) it was very bright on a 100" ST130. Very sharp and although not fully calibrated yet (waiting for the lamp to settle) colours looked very good to me. There was a slight excess in dither/noise to the image that wasn't there on the Marantz VP15S1 or the ProjectionDesign M25, lending a rawer look to the image.

Despite the brightness the black level looked very good and dark scenes from Blood Diamond looked very impressive indeed, detail and all when Leos character meets his buyer or later when he's in jail. Mixed scenes as with most DLPs look gorgeous, the added brightness doing only good for this machine of course.

One very positive impression for me was less noticable rainbows/RBE on the IN83 than on the IN82. Granted there was some ambient light from the other projectors in the shootout so this may not be true if I watch it in a totally light controlled room. I also didn't notice much of temporal dithering on any of the displayed DLPs, I'm very glad they've reached a level I can accept in this area.

Fan noise - same as IN82 according to the dealer, no improvement here. I couldn't listen in on the fan noise due to the audio systems being pretty loud. Putting my ear to it and the Benq W5000 I'd have to say the Benq is slightly quieter.

[QUOTE=lungan71;13397919]
The IN83 is bright, bright and then some. I guess we knew that beforehand from the IN82 but even at iris 45 (below medium) it was very bright on a 100" ST130. Very sharp and although not fully calibrated yet (waiting for the lamp to settle) colours looked very good to me. There was a slight excess in dither/noise to the image that wasn't there on the Marantz VP15S1 or the ProjectionDesign M25, lending a rawer look to the image.

Thanks for the report.
A couple of questions.
The slight noise you saw in the image was it on multiple sources? Compared to the 5k noise?
You mention the w5000 and I'm considering the in83 and the w20000. Have you seen the w20k? How do they compare?
-Frank

Very sharp and although not fully calibrated yet (waiting for the lamp to settle) colours looked very good to me.
I thought the IN83 came ISF precalibrated to 6500K? Does it not, or are you just trying to tweak it a bit more?

Thanks for the report.
A couple of questions.
The slight noise you saw in the image was it on multiple sources? Compared to the 5k noise?
You mention the w5000 and I'm considering the in83 and the w20000. Have you seen the w20k? How do they compare?
-Frank

I watched the W5k only a few minutes when they showed Ratatouille from a PS3, no real, live material and from a different source (the IN83 was fed bd from a Pioneer) so comparisons are difficult. The W20k should've been there but wasn't, they claimed software-issues. Too bad, the W20k was actually my main interest besides the IN83. I'd say the IN83 wasn't necessarily noisier than the W5k but maybe a bit more revealing, it just apperared a tad more harsch/raw. This may have been fixable by reducing sharpness a tad, unfortunately it's impossible to fiddle too much with the settings at such a show.

I haven't seen the W20k yet, I will try to demo it whenever it decides to show up over here though.

SimpleTheater: That is just what the demo-guy said, could've meant it needed a touch-up due to a different source or it could also have been a pre-production sample? As I wrote, I thought it looked just fine but I'm not the most sensitive about slightly off colors.

I thought the IN83 came ISF precalibrated to 6500K? Does it not, or are you just trying to tweak it a bit more?

The IN82 was close to D65 out of the box, but I wouldn't say it was "calibrated". I'm guessing the IN83 will be the same - close, but with room for tweaking.

We should be getting some feedback soon on this projector.

I just got word that my IN83 will be shipped out tomorrow. I hope to have some initial feedback on this in the next week or two.

Stay tuned.

We had three come in today and three go out today. More are on order. We'll hear soon.

Richard

We had three come in today and three go out today. More are on order. We'll hear soon.

Richard

Wow, I am glad I got my pre-order in early!

I got my IN83 yesterday. Unfortunately the screen, the receiver and the BluRay and upconverting players I ordered haven't come in yet so I can't do much for a few weeks. The wait is going to be tough.

One interesing thing - I checked the back of the projector and it is an IN83 but the manual that comes with it is for an IN 82. Don't know whether it's a mistake or just reminding me that it's the same unit with the only change being the new chip.

We had three come in today and three go out today. More are on order. We'll hear soon.

Richard

Did Jason do any "playing" with any of them before they left?

Also.......

Does the IN83 have the same "throw-ratio" that the In82 does? (I can deal with the 36% offset, but the throw on the IN82 kills for my theater/screen size).

I saw the IN-83 running at ISE 2008 a few weeks ago, at the show in Amsterdam. Am a newbie in projector / home theatre land but it did impress me. Also took a look at the Sony VW-200 (wow) and a Sim 3 chip DLP projector (wow 2x).

Saw a few scenes of Apocalypto playing on a 100" screen with the IN-83 but that was enough to impress me. Wasn't sensitive to the RBE effect in those scenes and the sales rep told me everything except brightness settings where out of the box. Colours seemed very natural to me. The image really had a nice pop. Pans seemed smooth, and motion was very natural in scenes with fast motion (the main charactur running around in the jungle, being chased).

That's all I can say. I'll leave the rest for the experts :)

/edit: oh and I have a spec sheet infront of me right now. Doesn't say how fast the colorwheel runs.


Please rank (best image at top) which image impressed you most-the IN83, the Sony VW-30, or the Sim 3 chip DLP?

Did Jason do any "playing" with any of them before they left?

Also.......

Does the IN83 have the same "throw-ratio" that the In82 does? (I can deal with the 36% offset, but the throw on the IN82 kills for my theater/screen size).

The throw is the same 1.85-2.22. That is to long for my setup if 16:9 as my max width would be 81", but would work nicely with a scope lens in the mix. 108" would put me at a 1.1 seating distance, which is just where I want it.

Did Jason do any "playing" with any of them before they left?

Also.......

Does the IN83 have the same "throw-ratio" that the In82 does? (I can deal with the 36% offset, but the throw on the IN82 kills for my theater/screen size).

None of us have had a chance to do any testing with these yet as we are still trying to fill our pre-orders. Hopefully soon though! :)

As f300v10 mentioned, the throw and offset are the same as the IN82.

Please rank (best image at top) which image impressed you most-the IN83, the Sony VW-30, or the Sim 3 chip DLP?

Hard to say seeing sources and conditions where different:

Sony VW-200 in an anamorphic setup, playing Casino Royalo on Bluray was very immersive. Screen was at least 3meter wide. Colors seemed a littlebit oversaturated, but image pop and motion where great.

Sim 3 chip DLP playing The Unforgiven on Bluray had the most natural colours, but it was also a bit noisy (could be the source) and at times a tiny little bland. Had less pop then the VW-200, but could also be the source material. Overall very pleasing to the eyes and especially natural / lifelike. Felt like I could watch this setup for days on end.

Infocus IN-83 had Apocalypto running from Bluray and this one had the most pop to me. Motion was great, pans where smooth. But it had the smallest screen (a little bit smaller then the Sim setup). I think it was 1.80m or 2.00m.

I could very well live with either 3 setups, if I had the money :) Hard to say which was better under these conditions and varying sources, so won't rank them in any order. All 3 stood out for different reasons.

Hard to say seeing sources and conditions where different:

Sony VW-200 in an anamorphic setup, playing Casino Royalo on Bluray was very immersive. Screen was at least 3meter wide. Colors seemed a littlebit oversaturated, but image pop and motion where great.

Sim 3 chip DLP playing The Unforgiven on Bluray had the most natural colours, but it was also a bit noisy (could be the source) and at times a tiny little bland. Had less pop then the VW-200, but could also be the source material. Overall very pleasing to the eyes and especially natural / lifelike. Felt like I could watch this setup for days on end.

Infocus IN-83 had Apocalypto running from Bluray and this one had the most pop to me. Motion was great, pans where smooth. But it had the smallest screen (a little bit smaller then the Sim setup). I think it was 1.80m or 2.00m.

I could very well live with either 3 setups, if I had the money :) Hard to say which was better under these conditions and varying sources, so won't rank them in any order. All 3 stood out for different reasons.

Thanks for the comparisons. It's good to know you can't go wrong with these three, just go with the one that best fits your budget/setup/situation.

Two weeks ago I put in my third lamp. Never had a problem with the first two but this time my IN76 projector shut down 4 times in about 10 days.

I had discarded my 1st lamp (as directed by the warranty company [thought I was going to have to return it] so I put in my 2nd old lamp, that I got from INFocus, and everything is fine now, although it is a lot dimmer because of the lamp's age.

The manual says if the projector goes dark and the power light is flashing red to:
1.Turn off the projector (I disconnected it from the power cord as it was already off)
2.Wait a few minutes and start it back up.

That worked 3 times but the 4th time I couldn't bring it back up until the next day.

The manual states that if the red light is blinking it indicates either a defective bulb (over heating I believe) or a fan problem (which I assume could also cause over heating). Called the extended bulb & projector warranty company, whom I might add have been great so far, and they said I would be getting a call today from the company they bought the bulb from. Never happened. I can't help but wonder if the fact that the 1st two bulbs came from INFocus and the 3rd bulb came from a different company could have anything to do with the problem.

Anybody else have this problem or a solution?

Thanks-

If the new lamp keeps going out, but the old one works fine, it sounds like the new lamp is defective, I'd try to get it replaced.

I was just reading posts in the BenQ w6000 thread and a couple of people stated that "chip visibility" & "uniform brightness" are major issues with the IN83, and that the w5000 had better blacks than the IN83 (it's not even a DC4 PJ). Are these accurate statements?

I always thought that uniform brightness wasn't an issue with DLPs?!? :confused:

If the new lamp keeps going out, but the old one works fine, it sounds like the new lamp is defective, I'd try to get it replaced.

You were right stranger89. Mack Camera replaced it under warranty. The new bulb seems to be fine!! Thanks for the response!:)