what do you guys recommend? I only have HDMI sources (3).

should I buy just a switcher or a full scaler? CMS?

Thanks

switcher

is that the general concensus? an RS2 has a good enough internal scaler that an external VP is not necessary? I love simplicity...

OK I know I mentioned on another similar post go with the Lumagen, but seriously the RS2 has a great internal Scaler/Deinterlacer. The lumagen is better, but it will introduce some extra complexity in the initial setup.

With your above statement, start with a good switcher. Upgrade to a dedicated VP when you know that you need one.

We just posted new software for the Lumagen HDP, ProHdp and HDQ that adds a CMS (Color Management System). This allows you to move the position of the primary colors. Some of the latest 1080p projectors such as the JVC RS2 have primary colors that are outside the color triangle. Calibrating the primary colors can give you a much better image. The new Lumagen Radiance also has a CMS system which works very well to calibrate the RS2.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

Yep. I agree.

The VisionHDP would be your best choice.

We just posted new software for the Lumagen HDP, ProHdp and HDQ that adds a CMS (Color Management System). This allows you to move the position of the primary colors. Some of the latest 1080p projectors such as the JVC RS2 have primary colors that are outside the color triangle. Calibrating the primary colors can give you a much better image. The new Lumagen Radiance also has a CMS system which works very well to calibrate the RS2.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

I have a RS1 and a VP50Pro. A VP gives you a lot of advantages beyond switching. The VP50Pro really allowed my to tweak the calibration of the RS1 (gamma, offset, gain, etc.) beyond what the RS1 would allow. However, I have to agree that a processor with a full CMS would be ideal. Example, the green primary is way out of range. If you could pull it in, the results would be much better. SJ

Is there a cheaper solution to CMS access/correction on a RS2 than a Lumagen? I would love to correct the RS2 colors, but not at $4K. I am only using a BR player and HD Cable Box, so processing/de-interlacing isn't a priority, just color correction.

The Lumagens are really known to be the best options for CMS control....with the Radiance being the most powerful. The HDP is less than $1000, but not sure if you can find them anymore. I know DVDO was planning an upgrade to the VP50Pro, but I do not believe it is available yet.

Is there a cheaper solution to CMS access/correction on a RS2 than a Lumagen? I would love to correct the RS2 colors, but not at $4K. I am only using a BR player and HD Cable Box, so processing/de-interlacing isn't a priority, just color correction.Pixelwork's VP3100 ($3K) has a CMS that works reasonably well, though not as well as the Radiance.

At those prices, it isn't reasonable to get a scaler/CMS. I just need CMS control to get the primaries and secondaries correct on the RS2. The Pioneer Elite projector I just bought was under $3K and I really only watch Blu-Ray movies sent at 1080P/24. I will be using a HD cable box, but my cable company is releasing a 1080P box in the next month as well. But, for HD programming, outside a big game or what-not, gets watched on our 37" flat panel.

I also have basic grayscale and gamma controls in my Onkyo 886 processor, as well as the controls in the RS2. Any tips for dealing with the grayscale and gamma in the Pioneer (RS2). Any tips would be greatly appreciated! My Panasonic 3000 was pretty straightforward, but the RS2 seems a little more complicated. I'll be using CalMAN and an i1 meter to calibrate it.

One more quick question: Will either the HDP or HDQ do primary CMS adjustments? If so, what is the main difference between these two units? I would put this between my 886 processor and the RS2 since I need HDMI 1.3 audio.

Thanks,
Dan

for image perfection, meaning perfect gamma, perfect greyscale, perfect color decoding, perfect/no yc delays and perfect primaries/secondaries, the Radiance is the key

-Gary

Gary,
Thanks. I wish I could spring for a Radiance, but at this time, it is just not feasible financially. That is why I am looking into the used market for a HDP or HDQ. What is the Vision DVI? It looks idential except for SDI inputs 9 & 10 to the HDP. Would it also have basic CMS primary controls as well?

Gary,
Thanks. I wish I could spring for a Radiance, but at this time, it is just not feasible financially. That is why I am looking into the used market for a HDP or HDQ. What is the Vision DVI? It looks idential except for SDI inputs 9 & 10 to the HDP. Would it also have basic CMS primary controls as well?

as much as the Lumagens rule I don't think any of them but the Radiance would suite what you need, the reason I say this is because they are limited to 8-bit RGB DVI output, your PJ can take a 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI input, which has much better PQ than 8-bit RGB DVI, Radiance delivers this ;)

so I guess you are really in a pickle, DVDO has your 4:2:2 output but no CMS, greyscale, gamma etc., the Lumagen models are limited to 8-bit RGB DVI, and the Radiance is pretty expensive although I have seen some sub 3K sale listings on classifieds on AVS, videogon etc.

tough spot :( although the other Lumagen models are not going to look like ****, far from it actually, I am just way too picky, difference between 8-bit RGB and 10-bit 4:2:2 is not much, but it is there

-Gary

Pixelwork's VP3100 ($3K) has a CMS that works reasonably well, though not as well as the Radiance.

I think you mean "Pixel Magic Systems", not "Pixelworks". This is also referred to as the entry level Crystalio II.

Pixelwork's VP3100 ($3K) has a CMS that works reasonably well, though not as well as the Radiance.

I would hesitate to recommend this product. PMS is really falling fast when it comes to customer service (and I am a dealer so I know first hand). I don't know what is going on but communication with them is really lacking lately.

At those prices, it isn't reasonable to get a scaler/CMS. I just need CMS control to get the primaries and secondaries correct on the RS2. The Pioneer Elite projector I just bought was under $3K and I really only watch Blu-Ray movies sent at 1080P/24. I will be using a HD cable box, but my cable company is releasing a 1080P box in the next month as well. But, for HD programming, outside a big game or what-not, gets watched on our 37" flat panel.

I also have basic grayscale and gamma controls in my Onkyo 886 processor, as well as the controls in the RS2. Any tips for dealing with the grayscale and gamma in the Pioneer (RS2). Any tips would be greatly appreciated! My Panasonic 3000 was pretty straightforward, but the RS2 seems a little more complicated. I'll be using CalMAN and an i1 meter to calibrate it.

One more quick question: Will either the HDP or HDQ do primary CMS adjustments? If so, what is the main difference between these two units? I would put this between my 886 processor and the RS2 since I need HDMI 1.3 audio.

Thanks,
Dan

The HDP and HDQ (really main differnence is the HDQ is still current and has more inputs), are much more limited in their CMS. It was really a total afterthought and from testing they are not perfect. Most who have played with them find the primary colors can be dialed in, but not in turn the secondary properly. So they are better than nothing, but as Gary mentioned the Radiance is key.

You are right though...you spent less than $3k on a projector so stomaching over $3k for a VP with CMS is hard for many.

Thanks Jason. If I needed the scaling and CMS it would be easier to take, but I don't really need the processing, just the CMS. Oh well, it was worth asking if there was anything out there. Maybe someone will make a stand alone CMS sometime!

Yeah that would be a cool feature but probably difficult to implement. Take care!

I think you mean "Pixel Magic Systems", not "Pixelworks". This is also referred to as the entry level Crystalio II.Yes, sorry.

I would hesitate to recommend this product. PMS is really falling fast when it comes to customer service (and I am a dealer so I know first hand). I don't know what is going on but communication with them is really lacking lately.I had heard some anecdotal comments along this line, but if dealers are now saying this, then it sounds like the end is near. Too bad. It was a reasonably good product.

I had heard some anecdotal comments along this line, but if dealers are now saying this, then it sounds like the end is near. Too bad. It was a reasonably good product.

I honestly do not know what is going on, but I agree it is a shame. Though it did have some bugs, when they weren't an issue it performed very well.

Thanks Jason. If I needed the scaling and CMS it would be easier to take, but I don't really need the processing, just the CMS. Oh well, it was worth asking if there was anything out there. Maybe someone will make a stand alone CMS sometime!

Dont forget about the JVC RSVP2. It is a rebadged DVDO VP50 tweaked by JVC to specifically correct the colors on an RS1 and RS2.

I have never heard of that before. Where can I get more info on it?

Thanks,
Dan

ps, how do you like your Pioneer Elite FPJ1 so far? I am upgrading from a Panasonic PT-AE3000 and can't wait. It shipped out yesterday.

I would hesitate to recommend this product. PMS is really falling fast when it comes to customer service (and I am a dealer so I know first hand). I don't know what is going on but communication with them is really lacking lately.

I am a dealer of theirs as well and agree 100%, things are not good there, they have amazing products and used to be tops in service, firmware updates are gone and you can't get anyone anymore for anything

these days, actually not that different from another company that Josha knows very well :mad:

Lumagen could become the leader quite easily ;)

-Gary

I have never heard of that before. Where can I get more info on it?

Thanks,
Dan

ps, how do you like your Pioneer Elite FPJ1 so far? I am upgrading from a Panasonic PT-AE3000 and can't wait. It shipped out yesterday.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101766

As far as I know, I'm the only one on AVS that owns one. Not sure exactly what the price is now though, but it aint cheap... call AVS for pricing.
Like I said in the Pioneer thread, you would have a hard time seeing a difference between it corrected with the RSVP2 vs. dropping color by -12. Unless youre going with a scope screen or lots of 480i material, I recommend forgetting about any VP and just enjoy the Pioneer. (and you will enjoy it!)

Thanks Shamus. Since I haven't even received my FPJ1 yet, all of this discussion is pre-mature because my wife and I might actually enjoy the oversaturation...who knows. I just want to be ready in case we don't enjoy the colors.

Dan

I have never heard of that before. Where can I get more info on it?

Thanks,
Dan

ps, how do you like your Pioneer Elite FPJ1 so far? I am upgrading from a Panasonic PT-AE3000 and can't wait. It shipped out yesterday.

Here is the link to the RSVP2 on JVC's website. MSRP on the VP50 pro is $3500, not sure on the MSRP of the RSVP2.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101766

I bet it is even more...I just worry about turning down the color control so much is going to make the other colors lose a little spark.

Yeah, I have to stay under $1K if I add a VP, and it doesn't look like that's possible.

I bet it is even more...I just worry about turning down the color control so much is going to make the other colors lose a little spark.

Yeah, I have to stay under $1K if I add a VP, and it doesn't look like that's possible.

Too bad Pioneer didnt rebadge it. It would be going for 50 bucks right now!;)

Too bad Pioneer didnt rebadge it. It would be going for 50 bucks right now!;)

Given that JVC is consolidating all of their US companies into one unit, the same may happen to the RS-VP2: http://www.twice.com/article/CA6634071.html?q=jvc+

That would be awesome!!!! By turning down your color control so much, did it affect the picture much (dull the colors, make other less vibrant)?

I actually had a brief dialogue with Nelson Choi at Pixel Magic and he did say they were planning a CIII! :eek: They are just very busy lately with their MTV device...

That would be awesome!!!! By turning down your color control so much, did it affect the picture much (dull the colors, make other less vibrant)?

Its really tough to tell. I suppose an expert could tell, but I doubt most would see a difference. In fact I thought JVC pulled a fast one and just dropped the color until I saw a difference in some color test patterns. Give it a try... you can always compromise and end up somewhere in the middle.

Thanks Shamus for all of your help. I'll let you know how it turns out when my FPJ1 arrives next week. Because I don't have a dedicated media room/home theatre, I am going to keep the Panasonic and do a little shootout between the two. Whichever one my wife and I like better stays, the other goes to the classifieds!

I actually had a brief dialogue with Nelson Choi at Pixel Magic and he did say they were planning a CIII! :eek: They are just very busy lately with their MTV device...

that is wonderful, can't wait, they really do need to step it up over there as things are going to pot for sure :o

the Crystalio brand has been tarnished, countless people will never think about one again as the firmware updates have vanished in the past year, would love to see them get back to their old selves ;)

-Gary

I agree Gary. I would love to see an updated VP from them with HDMI 1.3 and other newer features. :)

I for one just want them to be more responsive to customers (PMS). That is the main problem... Their products work quite well. (and being busy is not an excuse, especially when a customer who bought one of their products has a problem...they should be top priority but PMS hasn't been doing that).


Turning down the color control does affect the gamut and most calibrators would cringe. But I can tell you that most people won't notice the negative affects as much as the positive so if you are happy with it, go for it!

We added a simple CMS system to the Lumagen HDP and HDQ. We did what we could with the number of gates we had available. We have many reports from our customers that this simple CMS system greatly improved the color on their JVC RS1 and RS2 projectors.

If you want to adjust all the primary and secondary color points to make a perfect color triangle you really need the Radiance.

If you want to pull in the green color point and maybe the red, then the HPD/HDQ can help. You can use the simple CMS system to fix the fluorescent green grass and fix the sun burnt look on faces. Many people have reported that this made a big improvement to the color of the image on their projectors.

Randy Freeman
support@lumagen.com

I couldn't be happier with what the Lumagen HDQ did for me and my RS1u. The CMS system eliminated the funny neon greens and gold yellow colors and redish skin tones and it looks better in my opinion compared to reducing the color control. Comparing the colors to my flat panel LCD tv's I don't see any problem visually that stands out. Then the grey scale adjustments and gamma adjustment just make the image so much better. Well worth the money in my case. Don't forget you get 24p abilities watching movies on cable and satellite too!

Ron

Is it possible to install the firmware from a RSVP2 into a VP50 Pro? They are supposedly the same unit with different firmware so I thought it may be possible to install the RSVP2 firmware if it is available into a VP50 pro and be able to get the capability of CMS control in a existing VP50 Pro.

I thought that the CMS processing required HW changes like an additional FPGA, but I may be wrong. If you try reflashing a VP50 Pro with RSVP2 firmware please let us know how it works out, but be aware that a bad reflash has the potential to brick a device.

there is no control as far as I know, just a selection that fixes the bad colors, on or off

it is 100% software and if anyone has a source for the firmware let me know and I will try it ;)

-Gary

there is no control as far as I know, just a selection that fixes the bad colors, on or off

it is 100% software and if anyone has a source for the firmware let me know and I will try it ;)

-Gary

Theres suppose to be a firmware upgrade for the RSVP2, but I dont think its out yet.

Is it possible to install the firmware from a RSVP2 into a VP50 Pro? They are supposedly the same unit with different firmware so I thought it may be possible to install the RSVP2 firmware if it is available into a VP50 pro and be able to get the capability of CMS control in a existing VP50 Pro.

I asked DVDO about this a while back and was told that there's a hardware difference that would prevent RSVP2 firmware from being loaded on a VP50Pro and vice versa.