Does anyone have any information as to whether Blu-Ray releases are horizontal and vertical filtered to remove fine detail ?

This happens with standard DVD releases although not all the time and less so than it used to at the dawn of DVD.

I mean everyone wants The Lord Of The Rings movies on Blu-Ray but how many are aware that the original DVD releases contained a lot less detail than they should have due to New Line filtering the detail both horizontally and vertically ( by comparison the UK releases were not filtered )

So what i'm wondering is this.....If Blu-Ray releases are filtered horizontally and this removes some fine detail then is it even worth buying over the standard DVD release if the standard DVD release did not have this filtering ?

I'm even more interested to know from the experts whether filtering to remove fine detail actually goes on and why does this still happen ? ( grain removal ? )

I am still standing on the sidelines watching this high definition game and would not be too interested in moving on from DVD if they still resort to high levels of filtering.

yep...just stick with dvds...its all smoke and mirrors...:rolleyes:

somehow i think you mean digital noise reduction... and for the most part this is not used in HD movies as much but it still manages to pop up... most notably on the US release of pan's labyrinth (i know there was a release somewhere that didn't use DNR but i can't remember) and even edge enhancement has been known to find its way into HD releases (worst example i can think of off the top of my head is tremors on hd dvd.. heavy use of EE and DNR... only reason i haven't bought that one)

I've seen Pan's Labyrinth on both SD and HD DVD (with the DNR) and despite the DNR the HD version is a vast improvement. I also own several HD discs on both formats that are at best tier 3 and they still look very much better than their SD dvd counterparts.

Back in the day (inception of dvd) the forums were full of luddites claiming vhs looked just as good. While the difference between SD dvd and HD discs is not as great as that between VHS and dvd, it is apparent on all but the smallest tvs.

I've seen Pan's Labyrinth on both SD and HD DVD (with the DNR) and despite the DNR the HD version is a vast improvement. I also own several HD discs on both formats that are at best tier 3 and they still look very much better than their SD dvd counterparts.

Back in the day (inception of dvd) the forums were full of luddites claiming vhs looked just as good. While the difference between SD dvd and HD discs is not as great as that between VHS and dvd, it is apparent on all but the smallest tvs.

even the somewhat maligned bluray T1 looks way better than the best SD DVD version. only a very few like I think it was maybe Traffic (which cheated, just SD upconvert) don't look better. caddy shack/leathal weapons are not full res looking. pretty much everything is better, most are vastly better and some are inconceivably better :D.

This thread should be in the Blu-Ray Software section. Not this forum.

Did the site lose some posts ?

To answer JK West.....Yep i will just stick with DVD's if the studio's decide to release filtered DNR rubbish so you can go roll your eyes in another thread if thats the only interesting thing you have to say.....I want to buy into it but i want the quality to be leaps and bounds ahead of DVD and at the moment i'm not so sure it is.

So many people who pipe up that a film looks great on their 40 or 50 inch television but then someone else comes along with a great 120inch projection screen and points out the lack of detail and the DNR etc etc......I have been reading these boards since 2003 so i'm not exactly an idiot when it comes to technology and i have learnt much from these boards ( without ever needing to roll my eyes )

I simply want proper high definition without the filtering DNR that studio's seem to employ just to make their job of encoding easier or to hide flaws in the master....I would rather see speckles and grain on the print and no filtering of the detail.....Is this possible ? I have no idea but i would love to see it happen.

Spartacus is one of my favorite classic movies and yet they seem to have screwed up the high definition release according to every review i have read and comments on this forum.....I also loved The Mummy but reviews suggest it contains edge enhancement which in turn suggests they DNR filtered it and thus lost some of the higher levels of detail......This doesn't exactly encourage me to buy into this new format and thus i am sticking with DVD until such time the studio's decide to make the DVD version look bad in order to promote the high definition version ( it's already happened with Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix - Abysmal DVD transfer )

Anyways no reason for some people to jump on a thread and roll their eyes ( funny how its always the newbies or the gamers who do this hmmm whatever happened to reasoned debate or good manners ? )

Come on Hollywood.....Sell high definition to me because at the moment i just don't feel all that excited about it ( and i did feel excited by it 2 years ago )

You will be waiting forever then.

There will always be great, good and bad releases on any format.

Go to one of the screenshot comparison threads and you can see this with your own eyes. For some releases the difference is jaw dropping. Some the difference is minimal. The only instance I've heard of the HDM release looking the same or worse is 28 Days Later, which of course was a source material issue. and even then the sound was greatly improved, but it doesn't sound like you care much about audio upgrades, easily the most over looked aspect of HDM's virtues.


The best thing to do is wait for reviews and screenshot comparisons before buying if you are that concerned. But it's rare for there not to be some relatively obvious upgrade on each release. If you are waiting for a format what will guarantee every release to be perfect, you will be waiting for a very long time. and not to sound snarky, but I'm sure there were plenty of almost word-for-word statements when DVD was in it's infancy.

You will be waiting forever then.

There will always be great, good and bad releases on any format.


QFT

You will be waiting forever then.



I'm not looking for perfection i just want to see studio's stop this DNR nonsense as it can affect the image quality considerably.

The audio quality does matter to me and it certainly has me watching with interest....Although i am concerned that HDMI as a transport for audio can introduce considerable jitter.

Did the site lose some posts ?


The site went down yesterday and they had to do a backup restore. It lost roughly 2/3 of yesterday's posts.

The site went down yesterday and they had to do a backup restore. It lost roughly 2/3 of yesterday's posts.

My post was one of the ones that went missing.

The first bit of it basically said that they filter standard definition DVDs so that they don't flicker too much when watched on interlaced displays - and that they shouldn't need to filter with HDM as I think most HDTVs are progressive??

And that they filter for other things too (grain/noise/too much detail!/easier to compress :eek: etc.)

In all the HD broadcasts I've seen of LoTR, nothing looked filtered to me.

The audio quality does matter to me and it certainly has me watching with interest....Although i am concerned that HDMI as a transport for audio can introduce considerable jitter.


I don't understand all this talk about jitter. There was a big thread about it a week or so ago and in the end, I think they said it was the "buffers" that prevent this. It did not matter if the signal was going over cable, fiber, Ilink, HDMI etc.

I don't understand all this talk about jitter. There was a big thread about it a week or so ago and in the end, I think they said it was the "buffers" that prevent this. It did not matter if the signal was going over cable, fiber, Ilink, HDMI etc.

I thought it was something to do with different clocks being used for the audio and the video, and that over time, the buffer could become empty/too full and they'd need to fix it/re-sync? eg. repeat a sound sample or discard one? Something like that anyway I think?

We're way far afield from the original topic.

To answer the original question:

Q: Does vertical/horizontal filtering occur on HDM titles?
A: Yes, but rarely, and it's always noticed and decried by the people on this forum.

In general, nasty things like filtering, edge enhancement, digital noise reduction, and other processes are much rarer with high definition than on standard DVDs. There are a hefty number of HDM titles out there on both formats that are, as far as anyone can tell, completely free of any tampering of this sort.

Do poor examples exist? Naturally. But good transfers outnumber bad ones. The good ones blow DVDs completely out of the water, the mediocre ones are still a noticeable improvement, and even the worst HDM are at least a slight improvement. And of course there's the audio issue, where virtually every title has improved audio over its DVD equivalent.

Spartacus is an old transfer that was held back by the limitations and practices of the time. It's not as if they did it recently; many transfers from before 2001 or so are lacking. Check out Mission: Impossible 2 and Edward Scissorhands, for example.

Second, while I share the concern about filtering, what we're getting is usually still a worthwhile improvement over DVD. So, while we may be settling for less quality than is optimal, I don't think sticking with or going back to DVD (which has the same or even worse problems with filtering and EE, but with lower resolution to boot) is the answer.

Actually, I'd say that DNR is pretty common---far too common to suit me.

Actually, I'd say that DNR is pretty common---far too common to suit me.

As common as it might be right now, it is possible that intrusive DNR will increase due to the perceived demands of the mainstream.

This thread should be in the Blu-Ray Software section. Not this forum.

+1

I'm amazed at the number of HD DVD related posts that get moved immediately, but most of the Blu-Ray only posts are allow to remain here.

Perhaps the OP meant hi-def media in general but used the term "Blu-Ray" instead. If so, the title should be changed to suit.

+1

I'm amazed at the number of HD DVD related posts that get moved immediately, but most of the Blu-Ray only posts are allow to remain here.

Perhaps the OP meant hi-def media in general but used the term "Blu-Ray" instead. If so, the title should be changed to suit.

I used the term Blu-Ray because i actually think it is currently the dominant format and will probably stay that way.

I also originally posted this in the Blu-Ray forum but it got moved here.