Hey All,

Recently got a VP20 to make my SNES, Genny and Neo-Geo playable again. Device works great, but now I have a wire management problem. The V20 more than enough video inputs but only one rca stereo input.

I was recommended an Intec G5239 (nifty enough). While the G5239 solved the input problem, it will only output on the same type of connection as the input. So now I have a horrible tangle of wires behind my stand (as well as the need for an extra power adapter) for a small rca issue.

Can anyone suggest a better/simpler solution, it'd really be appreciated.

Bruno

Not that it will solve the wiring particularly (although you might be able to bundle them in a conduit of some sort) - can't you just take the audio connections direct to an amp?

I wish, the SNES/Genesis cables don't leave enough slack to conect to a receiver on another shelf. My original plan was to have everything route to the VP20 (master switch), then have an optical out to the receiver and hdmi to the tv. The problem with the G5239 is it will not convert sources, so I need another set of component, s-video and composite cables going to the dvdo.

I apologize for the noobtastic nature of my post.

I don't know if you read my reply yesterday before it was lost in the crash.... anyway, a short recap:

Getting a VP20 and connection your systems via composite or s-video is a shame. What you need to get are RGB cables for all three systems. The jump in picture quality will be HUGE ! The RGB cables also carry the sound. Buy a RGB scart switch (ebay from $15), connect the three videogame systems to the switch and then run ONE to the VP20 which splits up into 4x RCA (for RGBS Video) and 2x RCA (for audio) just before the VP20.

This is definitely the cleanest way to cable your setup - and you'll get the best quality out of it.

Thanks alot brother, thats just what I was looking for!

This is definitely the cleanest way to cable your setup - and you'll get the best quality out of it.

You know what I've often wondered?

The Playstation 2 also supports RGB Scart output... It already supports component out too.

I've always wondered if using an SCART to RGBS converter on the Playstation 2, setting it's output mode to RGB, would net any benefit in picture quality than just using regular component out. (YPrPb)...

Anyone know the answer to that?

The answer is No. Scart RGBS delivers the exact same quality as YUV (component) with the downside that it doesn't support progressive scan.

! The RGB cables also carry the sound.
.

I think you are a bit confused here rgb does not carry audio :rolleyes:, get your facts straight.:eek:

Get yours right ;) I was talking about 21-pin Scart cables which all his systems use to output RGB - something you US gamers hardly know. The cable carries composite video, RGBS and analog stereo sound.

Get yours right ;) I was talking about 21-pin Scart cables which all his systems use to output RGB - something you US gamers hardly know. The cable carries composite video, RGBS and analog stereo sound.

You said RGB cable, not SCART cable. Your mistake.

You said RGB cable, not SCART cable. Your mistake.

Why are you guys arguing about this?

Anyway, if you just read the whole line instead of "RGB", you'd see he typed " The RGB cables also carry the sound. Buy a RGB scart switch (ebay from $15), " which pretty much lets you know what he's talking about.

Why are you guys arguing about this?

Anyway, if you just read the whole line instead of "RGB", you'd see he typed " The RGB cables also carry the sound. Buy a RGB scart switch (ebay from $15), " which pretty much lets you know what he's talking about.

We need to keep the terminology correct because accuracy is extremely important to the newer members getting into the hobby,
No one said anything about a scart switch .
We here at AVS try to help others in the hobby , so we need to keep the facts straight , good day!:rolleyes:

Update:

So I finally got all my cables in and I can't get component output. The VP20 can't interpret the signal and then shuts it down. Composite and analog audio work fine though.

Any help would be appreciated.

I found out the problem after some consultation today. I need a transcoder rather than a straight adapter. The SNES and Genesis don't output component signal (which is why a simple solution is not so simple). Ah, learn some the hard way. Will keep everyone updated if I can find a decent budget solution...

do NOT buy a transcoder !! Your VP20 handles YUV and RGBS, you just need to use the Sync RCA jacket on the left side of the component ports instead of the composite RCA jacket on the right side.

Almost progress, I can now get a brilliant picture for a second fore the screen goes black and thats it, but hey better than nothing.

Props to Fudoh for tolerating my ignorance:D

Ah, maybe it'll finally work next week

US consoles often don't output RGB though which I think is the problem turbocro is now running into. For old 16bit gen, s-video is usually the highest quality you can get and clearly, audio is still carried seperately. You can get s-vid + analog audio switches of course. I assume the vp20 has at least one s-video input?

edit: yes it does, just checked, it has 2, same as the 30 & 50.

Not sure how good these are, 3rd party cables can vary in quality but...
http://www.goatstore.com/info.php?id=221625 for the SNES

I can't find an s-vid Genesis or NeoGeo cable anywhere so I think sadly composite is the best you can hope for there although these guys (http://www.oldschoolgamer.ca/sales.aspx) claim they do s-video mods for both.

Thinking about this more, maybe s-video for the SNES & composite for both the NeoGeo and Genesis, and then just add two sets of phono cable extensions so the audio cables can reach the amp. Means you have to manually switch the amp separately from the vp20 but you'd have to switch something somewhere anyhow.

or just get a Wii & restrict yourself to the SNES, NeoGeo & Genesis titles that they make available on Virtual Console (http://www.nintendo.com/wii/virtualconsole/games) ;) One Ninty component cable & you get a lovely picture plus audio down one pair of wires.

Sadly no SNES Mario Kart yet though.

Guys, slow down, all 3 of his vintage systems have fine RGB(S) output. And all the iScan processors from the HD onwards do process RGB(S) directly.

You can of course start modding the systems to S-Video, but it will never match the quality of the direct RGB(S) output.

The problem might be the same as with the 50 and 50pro. Both system can't sync to those vintage systems. Setting the output to unlocked instead of locked gives a picture on the 50 and 50pro, but the movement stays jerky.

There might be some other fault somewhere (e.g. using japanese scart instead of western scart which uses a different pinout), but the above is the most likely cause.

I was told ABT/DVDO is working on it and will hopefully fix it soon, because what's the sense of offering special gamemodes when you don't support the sources anymore ?

Hmm, ok, didn't know that they all included RGBs for the japanese market (no reason why that couldn't be disabled on the US models of course)

At least with the vpXX, you can get a picture out of these things, a lot of TVs won't sync to them at all. I have to say I don't find the movement too bad when set to unlocked.

I have to say I don't find the movement too bad when set to unlocked.
what's your setup ? Which iScan, which videogame systems and which connections ?

We have a tried a bunch of systems on both the 50 and 50pro, but I could never find any confirmation (or denial) that the bug is inherent on the 20/30 systems as well. I would have though that it only affects VP20/30 units with the 102 upgrade installed.

what's your setup ? Which iScan, which videogame systems and which connections ?

We have a tried a bunch of systems on both the 50 and 50pro, but I could never find any confirmation (or denial) that the bug is inherent on the 20/30 systems as well. I would have though that it only affects VP20/30 units with the 102 upgrade installed.

Well I've got a SNES but I'm not moving it from the attic, so this is cheating & on the Wii via component. Sync drops on most Megadrive and SNES games if you try to keep it locked at 50Hz.

Is that a different problem?

Oh, and on a vp50. But I've heard of plenty of people with Samsung and Panasonic TVs who just can't use it at all when using prog scan. I believe it works ok when using 576i (no idea if this problem is also present with 60Hz versions of the games but I'm extrapolating)

Sounds like the same problem. Hopefully it will get fixed soon.

It is working now:) No clue as to why it didn't work earlier, but whatever. The picture truly is the best you can get out of the old systems. I have the SNES S-video cable out and the colors do not compare. Thunder Force III is truly a sight to behold. I am thoroughly shocked and awed. Much Thanks and Gratitude to Fudoh for the patience to deal with my ignorance and frustration.

Will try to get up some pics after a good long sleep (if kiddies allow). I owe Fudoh a beer.

I didn't, however, escape without a complete hitch. When the SNES and Genny are plugged into the splitter, they both turn on at the same time....but that battle will be won another day

...Will try to get up some pics after a good long sleep (if kiddies allow). I owe Fudoh a beer...
Looking forward to those pics!

Can anyone recommend a free image hosting site?:o

pick one: http://birnchen.ath.cx/index2.html

Not the best pics, but just to give you an idea. TV is a Panny TH50-px75u (purchased based on reviews on this forum as well)

http://www.uphoster.com/files/2roi3q832cs6863w95bp_thumb.jpg (http://www.uphoster.com/viewer.php?file=2roi3q832cs6863w95bp.jpg)

http://www.uphoster.com/files/ubjhrxshrqc8539rimfa_thumb.jpg (http://www.uphoster.com/viewer.php?file=ubjhrxshrqc8539rimfa.jpg)

http://www.uphoster.com/files/k5of5drbredbxc6rjsa3_thumb.jpg (http://www.uphoster.com/viewer.php?file=k5of5drbredbxc6rjsa3.jpg)

http://www.uphoster.com/files/oxnehzhkc4gdipcg8xwg_thumb.jpg (http://www.uphoster.com/viewer.php?file=oxnehzhkc4gdipcg8xwg.jpg)

http://www.uphoster.com/files/9e6a9dkmjsykk3xrje7s_thumb.jpg (http://www.uphoster.com/viewer.php?file=9e6a9dkmjsykk3xrje7s.jpg)

http://www.uphoster.com/files/5414ewacuk3n0idyx3u5_thumb.jpg (http://www.uphoster.com/viewer.php?file=5414ewacuk3n0idyx3u5.jpg)


SEGA!!!!!!!!!!

I made an RGBS cable for my Genesis 2 (also JVC X'eye) and I can't get it to sync (with either). I've got output framerate at 59.94Hz unlocked. Light goes red->green->blue->red->green->blue blah blah keeps trying. I saw it actually flash the video once or twice for a split second but it never stays that way.

My cable goes from the RGB outputs through a 75ohm resistor and a 220uF capacitor, and my sync goes straight through. Have I done something wrong?

VP50

keep messing around with the settings, I was having a similar issue but kept with it until it worked. In my case, the regular cable signal weirded out and I had to switch HDCP on, then everything worked. Weird, yes - but it works. My Genesis cable I purchased from chaoticjelly on ebay, I'm clueless as to tech specs, so I can't help you on that issue.

removed the resistors and it's syncing but black screen only. Tried sync-on-green as well with the same result. Info says it's a 480i signal. It's not the cart. Tried it with CD too, can hear the music, and it would show a picture even if the CD were bad.

got it to sync and display video with the Genesis without the resistors, but most of the screen was just black. Put the resistors back in and just get an initial "licensed by" screen then nothing. Can't get the X'eye at all yet. :(

Guys, please note that the VP50 and 50pro currently can't process the signals of those vintage videogame systems. It's a bug and will hopefully be fixed soon.

Turbocro is running a VP20, not a VP50 and I guess he's not using the ABT102 card either which should basically behave just like the VP50.

(Question for Turbocro: do you have the ABT102 installed ? If you have Gamemode 1&2 in the Deinterlacing settings, then you've got one).

Hey, great, as if I didn't regret buying this thing already. Lumagen for me next time.

Actually... Can you explain? I thought it just didn't deinterlace them properly or whatever. 'cause that's not the problem I'm having.

No idea what's actually causing the problem, but we experienced the problem with a NES, SNES, PC Engine and a few others. Weirdest thing is that some games work while other don't. Unlocking the framerate also helped getting a picture, but the processing wasn't smooth. Depending on the system, the connection (composite vs. RGBS) and the settings we got a flashing picture, regular dropouts (2 times per second) or - in the best case at least a standing picture but without any smooth scrolling.

They all work fine up to the VP30 (without ABT102 I assume), but the bug was introduced with the ABT102 (or the VP50)

Actually I am using the ABT102 card (no use playing legacy systems without game modes to reduce the lag)

Thanks, good the know - this reduces the problem to the 50 and 50pro then....

The fact that you're seeing the problem primarily (only?) with systems using the new deinterlacer design tells me a lot about where the problem is. My suspicion right now is that it's a simple matter of the deinterlacer being programmed incorrectly. (A similar problem last year caused unreliable 2:2 pulldown detection with 1080i50 sources, and no output with 1080p24 sources.) It would help if I had a list of all the game systems that you've seen the problem with. My sources for these systems is limited, and the wider the selection I have the more likely it will be that I can get ahold of one to test with.

- Dale Adams

Nintendo NES & SNES, Nec Turbografx / PC Engine over here, Sega Genesis with DonoMan's setup. This basically covers all the pre-Playstation systems out there. I can test it with a Sega Saturn this weekend which is a system in usage from 1994 to about 1999.

I would gladly participate in a fundraiser to get you guys at ABT an old NES or SNES system. Maybe some DVDO user in the US of A has a spare one lying around or would be willing to buy one from e**y and ship it over to ABT. Anyone ?

I mentioned it before somewhere: in all situations (no picture, blinking picture, picture but jerky scrolling) the blue LED on the 50(pro) stays on.

Nintendo NES & SNES, Nec Turbografx / PC Engine over here, Sega Genesis with DonoMan's setup. This basically covers all the pre-Playstation systems out there. I can test it with a Sega Saturn this weekend which is a system in usage from 1994 to about 1999.

I would gladly participate in a fundraiser to get you guys at ABT an old NES or SNES system. Maybe some DVDO user in the US of A has a spare one lying around or would be willing to buy one from e**y and ship it over to ABT. Anyone ?

I mentioned it before somewhere: in all situations (no picture, blinking picture, picture but jerky scrolling) the blue LED on the 50(pro) stays on.Thanks for the list. I'll see if I can't pick up one of those. (Ah, if only I'd kept my old Genesis and Turbographx systems. :D ) All I've found to test with so far is a N64. It's interesting in that it sometimes puts out 480i and sometimes 240p, but I don't see the problems you mention.

The symptoms you mention support my theory that the problem is the way the deinterlacer is programmed. Now all I have to do is get one of those old systems to test.

- Dale Adams

My systems work perfectly via composite though. It's RGBS that I'm having an issue with. I don't have an o-scope though so all I can say is that I have verified several times against the pinouts given on multiple sites that my cable is correct, and I have tried 75 ohm resistors and not, and I can't get much of an image. I can't say positively that it's not my fault. I'm thinking of getting a Genesis SCART cable and a SCART->component converter and just doing that, though it'll be slightly lower quality than if I can get RGBS working.

I haven't tried a N64 yet, but I'll do so later on next week and report back. But since it was released 1996, two years after the Playstation it would support my theory that only pre-Playstation systems are affected. Since there are also PS1 and PS2 games which output 240p, it probably isn't related to the 480i/240p question.

Just for reference: we tested a NES with composite and with RGBS. With RGBS we were only able to get a picture with unlocked framerate. With composite we got a picture right away, but we had extreme judder 2 times per second which practically rendered the games unplayable. We crosschecked the connection to the VP50 and 50pro using other RGBS sources (Playstation and a free-to-air TV receiver) and both worked fine. The PSX was tested with 480i and 240p games.

On the PC Engine (TG16) we tested RGBS only. While some games worked perfectly (without any judder), others exhibited the same problems as the NES, which is no picture with locked output and only unstable output with unlocked output.

[While thinking of it: the only difference between the various TG16 games are the different screen resolutions. While all are 15khz, they differ in their horizontal and vertical resolution and things like back/front porch and synch width. The Wiki article says:

* X (Horizontal) Resolution: variable, maximum of 512 (programmable to 256, 352 or 512 pixels)
* Y (Vertical) Resolution: variable, maximum of 242 (programmable in increments of 1 scanline)
* The vast majority of TurboGrafx-16 games use 256×240, though some games, such as Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective did use 512×224. Chris Covell's 'High-Resolution Slideshow' uses 512×240.

So I would search for a possible bug in the VP50/50pro's somewhere there... just an idea though..... ]

Theres a old thread in the archives where the tested a VP20/30 versus a VP50 and the 50 was substantially slower in gaming mode witha 480p input.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=747832

Not sure if its a related matter. But at the least we can ascertain that the VP20/30 is not = to VP50.

In the 50pro you can turn off the cadence detection bringing the delay down to 6 or 7ms for 480p material. I think 50(non pro) users are still waiting for it. Anyway, it's not connected to our current problem with vintage consoles.

Just bringing this up once again, since the new FW for the 50pro was released, but any vintage system still don't seem to work.

Daisy chaining an iScan Pro or XRGB2 with a 50pro can't be the ultimate solution, can it ? I'm very well still willing to send you guys a NES or some other old system, so you can work on the problem. It's even more irritating that this bug was introduced 1.5 years back with the 50 (non pro) and hasn't been solved by now.

What's a videoprocessor which can't accept the signals from over a dozen machines ?

I've been experimenting with a bunch of different ways to get my classic gaming systems to look decent on modern display devices. After much research on these forums I decided to get SCART cables for the systems (Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn) and upconvert them using the DVDO iScan VP20.

Until a few days ago I had only seen these machines running through S-video. The RGB video they can generate is truly a revelation. Best of all, no need to mod the systems. Thank you AVS Forum!

The following images link to full-resolution images on Flickr. Images are photographed from a 720p plasma, which I think helps to retain some of that glorious phosphor glow from the days of old.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/2555626340_a741d17538.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pyronious/2555626340/sizes/o/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3160/2554799141_bb20ece760.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pyronious/2554799141/sizes/o/)

Very nice ! And we shouldn't be very far from getting the same experience on the 50/50pro systems :) I assume you had these running on Gamemode2 ? Gamemode1 would soften the edges much more....

Yep, VP20 + ABT102, Game Mode 2. Eagle-eyes!

I'm definitely looking at trading up to the VP50 Pro when they get they get the firmware fixed to work with these systems (what exactly is the problem, do you know?). I want the new audio format support for the high-end Blu-Ray formats. I'm also curious about the Mosquito noise reduction. I wonder if they'll implement some sort of macroblock reduction as well.

Any new ideas / developments on this front? I never got around to trying that SCART cable, but my interest is renewed (for the moment, anyway).

The 50/50pro is still bugged, but the Edge got it's 240p recently and it works like a charm. So it shouldn't be too long now until the fix goes into the 50/pro FW as well.

If the VP50 gets decent 240p support, there is some major AV interconnection rewiring in my future. Several entire components may become unnecessary. And I'm really looking forward to doing it. (Maybe I'd have bought an EDGE instead and done this already, but EDGE is a little too light on configuration options compared to the VP50/Pro.)

Anyone else try this with a Sega Genesis/CD/CDX or JVC X'eye? I threw out that cable I made because it was super ugly, haha. It wasn't even that cheap to make because I bought a premade 9-pin miniDIN cable and cut it, because I kept failing at using the DIY miniDIN connectors.

OK. I broke down and ordered a SCART cable for my Genesis. How do I get it into my VP50? I once again failed at making a cable myself. I am not looking for a SCART to component converter. I've seen adapters that go SCART to RGB RCA outputs without any format conversion but I am worried about sync. I don't know if it's folded into green in my SCART cable, or if I need an adapter that will give me RGBS. I got the cable from here http://stores.ebay.co.uk/The-Sinclair-Shop

Anyone?

I don't know if it's folded into green in my SCART cable, or if I need an adapter that will give me RGBS
It's a 4-part signal, R, G, B and composite sync. There are quite a few other signals running in the scart cable (like 5V and audio) but you don't them for the connection to the VP50. You don't need a converter, but a straight cable adapter from a female Scart connector to 4 (not 3) male RCA plugs on the other side. The adapter cable you need should look something like this:

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/optoma_machine_2.jpg

That's pretty much what I tried to make (just with RCA connectors instead of BNC). I probably soldered to the SCART connector backwards or something. But I am tired of trying to make my own. Where can I purchase a cable like that?

There are no readily available solutions. I would go back and give it a try again. You probably simply used the composite sync/video OUTPUT instead of INPUT pin in the scart connector. I could recommend you somebody to have a cable made (he made the one above), but I'm in Germany. You might find somebody in the USA over at the shmups.com board.

You were right. I get a picture now - kind of. It flashes on and off. It shows a picture for a split second, which as far as I can tell does look proper, and then shows blackness for even longer, maybe a quarter of a second on then a full second off, or something like that. The DVDO menu flashes with it.

Happens with my Sega Genesis and my JVC X'eye (same cables)

same bug you mentioned before?

Also, anyone try this with the Denon 602 VP?

The Denon can't handle 240p, so black screen all the way.

And - my sincere apologies ahead - I overlooked the fact that you've got a VP50. The VP50 is the *only* DVDO processor which doesn't support 240p signals yet. Until recently the 50pro was the same, but with the latest firmware in lately january it finally got fixed. As I understand the fix for the 50pro (and the Edge) was quite easy to do after all, but I don't know if there's something in the work for the 50.

Not much of a help, but if you used the very same cabling on a VP20, 30, 50pro or Edge you'd be ready to go and play away.

What good non-DVDO processors work? I'm not willing to give DVDO a penny more. I have generally recommended other brands for a while now, but unless they fix this, they're not EVER going to get a recommendation from me.

P.S. my VP50 is running 1.09

If you asked me I'd keep the VP50 for anything it works with and get a XRGB2+ or XRGB3 for those classics. Not too expensive and you can route the VGA (or DVI) output of those in the VP50 for further processing or upscaling. I've got a 50pro and though it works now with 240p signals, I'm using my XRGB-3 where I can - just love the picture. Check the link in my signature for comparison photos between the 50pro and the XRGB-3.

waaaaay too expensive, also, I read about them in your link and notice the warning to RPG players - that would be me

haha, don't take it too seriously. I fought through Phantasy Star II on a XRGB-3 recently and it was fine. There's little else to choose from. It's funny to see how 240p video processing becomes the actual crown categorie of video processing after all those high-end processors have succeeded in mastering SD and HD video... talk about manufacturers forgetting about the basics.

not even sure where I can find an XRGB-2+... Even the 3 seems to be out of stock everywhere

I've got friends in Japan in case you needed one. I'll send you a PM.

What about an older Faroudja line doubler? like LD-200

They work. You can refer to the Vigatec FX2 notes. Should be the same. They have a processing delay between 2 and 3 frames though.

They work. You can refer to the Vigatec FX2 notes. Should be the same. They have a processing delay between 2 and 3 frames though.

Ouch. Just for line doubling? Doesn't make much sense to me.

While the LD-200 didn't have a proper video mode to talk of (DCDi), they already did frame analysis to determine between film and video and this simply takes some time.

I assume I would just make a cable to go from SCART to HD15 for it?

No, doesn't work. The old Faroudjas are composite and S-Video only. No support for 15khz RGBs. And the newer ones (e.g. the Videon Omega One) don't support RGBs either, just component (plus s-video & composite). For RGBs on a Faroudja-based machine you need a european Vigatec FX2 (relabeled and modified Videon Omega One) or some upper class machine.

Argh. I am so not paying $400 for an XRGB, and I don't even really want a Japanese product to do it, even if the menus do have Bomberman.

I can easily get sync-on-green RGB. That doesn't help, either?

No, doesn't help either. My recommendation: set up a search alert on a european eBay site and look out for a FX2. They are around 100-120 Euro. Or watch out for an Omega One ($100) and pair it with a Scart to YUV transcoder ($40). Or you can give DVDO another chance and trade your VP50 for an Edge. Don't blame me, I'm just naming the options ;)

I've considered that, but who's to say that they're not going to just abandon me again firmware-wise? How do they think it's good business?

I've considered that, but who's to say that they're not going to just abandon me again firmware-wise?
They probably will (at some point), but the Edge is right now already performing as good as the 50pro after 2 years in the wild... And having participated in the Edge Beta program, I've seen how much work they've put into it. With 20+ firmware versions it was really nice to see the machine growing.

Well, I guess I'll try throwing my VP50 on the 'bay tonight. If I can get something for it then I'll migrate over to the Edge, I guess.

I don't like that it doesn't have the plethora of deinterlacing modes that my VP50 does, though.

I can second that, but since you're living in a NTSC country I don't see a problem. There's a film bias / video bias setting and for 240p material you don't need deinterlacing anymore as it's detected as progressive now. There are little problems left with PAL video vs. PAL film, but that probably doesn't concern you.

Works perfectly with the Edge. Thanks for all your help.

P.S. the Edge menus really ARE terrible.

I've got friends in Japan in case you needed one. I'll send you a PM.

Hi. I've become obsessed with this and have recently started investigating how to play my Sega (Genesis and Saturn) systems on my 2009 Panasonic Plasma TC-P54G10. If you would be so kind to help me locate and secure an XRGB-3 (or XRGB-2, if it's "better" for my purpose) with the help of one of your friends in Japan, it would be most appreciated!

-Al