I need some help, because I am now more confused than ever. I am in the market for new speakers, and have about $10,000 to spend, more or less. I am looking for the most "realistic", "true-to-life", "you-are-there", quality speaker there is, at that price. But the sheer number of speaker companies, speaker technologies, and speakers out there is mystifying, stupefying, and bewildering, so my search has been extremely confusing. I am not a constant upgrade kind of guy, and I don't have a lot of money, and so the speakers that I buy are the ones that I have to keep for a long time, and so it is even more imperative that I make the right and wise decision.

I realize that everyone has their own different opinion of things, and that different people like different types of sound from their speakers, and that that may be their favorite whether or not the sound coming from their speakers sounds even remotely realistic at all. And, while I respect the right for everyone to like their own particular pair of speakers that puts out a particular type of sound that suits them that they like and that sounds good to them as their favorite, regardless of whether it sounds realistic or not, my tastes are slightly different. My particular idea of good speakers are speakers that produce sound that sounds "real", or speakers that sound like a live performer is playing right there in front of you. Please forgive my particular taste, I know that a pair of speakers can sound perfectly good to someone whether or not they sound very realistic at all, but that is just what I personally in my own opinion consider good speakers, speakers which produce music which sounds as lifelike and as close to reality as possible.

And so, the first step that I am trying to do in order to nail down my speaker search is to isolate the type of speaker technology that sounds the most realistic. Since I know that most of you have heard literally dozens and dozens more different types of speakers in your lifetime than I have, all from many different types of assorted speaker technologies, can any of you tell me what, in general, is the speaker technology or type of speaker that sounds the most realistic and true to real life, like having a live performer playing right in front of you, that sounds the most similar to that? I know that part of this depends upon the system setup and synergy, room treatments, etc., etc., and I know that people do not always prefer the most realistic sound, but oftentimes just prefer the sound that sounds good to them, but surely, there must be some speaker technologies that sound more realistic, and more true-to-life than others. Please keep in mind that I am only asking for the speaker technology that sounds the most realistic, and not for a speaker company or a speaker itself, as I think that that would be impossible for anyone to say.

Knowing that most of you have heard many other speakers than me, and from all different types of speaker technologies, I thought that maybe some of you guys could tell me, maybe some of you could then give me a good place to start, or at least some of the more stronger options that there are available out there in terms of true-to-life music and sounding the most realistic.

If you could please help me out with a little advice other than, "well it all depends on you, you just have to listen with your own ears, and try to find what sounds right, and decide for yourself", that would be great. Because, unfortunately, that does not help me out much because I do not have "golden ears" as they say, and I do not even know what to listen for. Can you guys please help me out, and at least give me some places to start in terms of which speaker technology I should be looking at more than others, to get the most realistic sound? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks to all of you for your responses, I really appreciate all of your help, and am grateful to you for any help, tips, and advice, that any of you guys can give me. All advice is appreciated.

Truth is every speaker technology is compromised. Finding out where you're willing to compromise is the hard part.

I understand the want to buy once and once only, but the reality is that you'll likely have to go through a few iterations before you'll find what you're looking for.

Some questions

(1) How loud you want to play and what type of music
(2) How big is your space and how big can the speakers be?
(3) Is 10K for a 7.1 setup or just two speakers?

Truth is every speaker technology is compromised. Finding out where you're willing to compromise is the hard part.

I understand the want to buy once and once only, but the reality is that you'll likely have to go through a few iterations before you'll find what you're looking for.

Some questions

(1) How loud you want to play and what type of music
(2) How big is your space and how big can the speakers be?
(3) Is 10K for a 7.1 setup or just two speakers?

add:(4)what will you be powering these with?
(5)are looks important?
(6)how close will you be seated from them?

I do not have "golden ears" as they say, and I do not even know what to listen for. Can you guys please help me out, and at least give me some places to start in terms of which speaker technology I should be looking at more than others, to get the most realistic sound? I would really appreciate it.


I don't think the answer lies with a particular speaker technology. There are lots of different approaches to speaker design that can produce the transparrent sound you want. I would start by reading professional reviews and pay attention to the words used to describe the sound.

Thanks for responding you all. OK, in answer to your questions:

(1) I usually play my music from mow to medium volume, and I listen to a wide range of music, from New Age to Pop, with a heavy dose of classical mixed in, so I am looking for a speaker technology that does all things well, if that is at all possible.

(2) My space is 17 ft. long x 13.5 ft. wide x 8 ft. high, and the speakers can be of almost any size no matter how large.

(3) The 10K is just for two speakers, as I am building a two-channel purist music-only system.

(4) I haven't decided on any particular amp to power the speakers with yet, I prefer to be powering these with tube amps, but I will buy solid-state amps if they sound better, and are more compatible with the speakers.

(5) Looks are not important at all, only sound quality is.

(6) I am usually a near-field listener, so I will usually be sitting less than 10 feet away from the speakers.

I hope that helps you guys answer my questions. As I said before, thanks for responding.

First off, as others have said, every speaker technology is a compromise one way or another. If I were you, I'd audition every speaker I could and get what sounds best to me without worrying too much about what technology it used. Spend considerable time reading this forum to get an idea of what brands are considered to be top performers, and read professional reviews as well. Treat this info as a guidline however, as the speakers you find you like the best might not be what gets the whiz bang reviews.

Most importantly, budget for room treatments! Getting your room treated is hands down the most significant thing you can do to improve the sound of a system. Great speakers in a lousy room are going to sound lousy. I'd rather have 2k speakers in a treated room than 5k speakers in an untreated room. Spending 10k for top of the line speakers and not treating your room would be like buying a brand new Corvette and putting skinny all season tires on it. I hope I haven't understated the importance of room treatments... :)

As far as brands to audition go, you could start with these, though this is only a partial list:

Dynaudio
Theile
Vandersteen
Magnepan
Paradigm (signature series)
PSB (platinum series)
Vienna acoustics
Sonus Faber
Avalon acoustics
RBH
Dali
Silverline
B&W
Monitor audio

There are a lot more excellent speakers at your price point. Personally, I'd reduce the budget to about 7k or so, and budget 1 - 2k for room treatments.

You're room isn't huge, I'd call it small/medium, so 6 ft. behemoths will probably be too much for your room. When auditioning, mention your room size to the sales person, any competent sales person will be able to point you to great speakers that won't overpower your room.

One question however: Are you planning to use a sub or are you looking for a full range speaker to be used without a subwoofer?

Deneb, I am looking for a full range speaker to be used without a subwoofer.

i would add revel salons to that list

If you plan on powering these new speakers with a really nice tube amp I would take a listen to a pair of Klipschorns. They are so sweet sounding with tubes your ears will beg you for more. Of course I'm sure I'll get flamed here because 95% of the people who will respond to my post have probably never listened to a pair of Klipshorns. They are hand crafted and made to provide you with a lifetime of listening bliss. I would run them on the 17' wall. You need corners for these to and you won't need a sub at all. If you don't have a dealer near you then venture over to the Klipsch forum (www.klipsch.com) and ask who has some near you. The people on that board are most accommodating and most run them with tubes. Thats my 2 cents

Alrighty Leory - I'll do my best. Funny, no matter what you ask ... as in "Don't recommend a PARTICULAR speaker" (that's for you Scooterdog) people will anyway.

Ok - so first things first - you need a speaker that will produce the whole spectrum - from 20hz to 20khz min. If you can get to higher like say 40, 50, or 60 khz, that would be preferrable. Bear in mind you can't hear above 20khz, but added frequency range will give you more 'air' to the sound, or in other words, a wider, deeper, more 3d like soundstage.

Obviously, you want a speaker that will go low too - into the 20's COMFORTABLY - which is why I suggest a speaker that is rated to 20 hz or so (give or take two or three hz) +/- 3db's. This means you're almost guaranteed a good low response to 30hz or so minium, which would cover most music even in classical save pipe organ and cannons for the 1812.

Nearfield - within 10 feet - may be a bit tough though. The speaker design that can do that for less that 10 grand for a pair would a line array design. You want to look for something with a ribbon tweeter if possible - as that provides the most 'air' to the sound. What's nice about line arrays is that because of the amount of drivers used in them the detail they provide in the right room and the right equipment is unbelievable. Especially in the separation of the instruments. You can really focus in on them.

Now, the down side is line arrays can be anywhere from 6 feet to 9 feet tall or more. You'll be limited to about 7 feet or so - wouldn't want to go higher than that with only an 8 foot ceiling. They are also meant for larger spaces and can really get loud without distress at all. However, IMO - your room is not 'small' per say at 1850 cu feet roughly, so it should be OK in there.

Now the trick is to go out and find some. I've demo'ed one set that you could get for far less than 10 grand US but they were lacking in the high end as they only offered one tweeter. I'd go for one with many tweeters, not one. And as I mentioned - I'd look for one with ribbon tweeter as it should give you an even bigger, clearer soundstage and a good ribbon will get to 40 khz easy.

Hope this helps - and as you asked - NO SPEAKER brands were mentioned in my post ;)

From the description of what he wants, it would seem that B&W 800d should be on his audition short list.

From the description of what he wants, it would seem that B&W 800d should be on his audition short list.

What didn't you understand about "No speaker recommendations"? There's a million of those threads around here.

Leroy is asking about technology - so speak about the technology without mentioning the speaker brand. That's not what he wants.

As a technology, I'd definitely look into electrostatic speakers, either from Martin Logan or Magnepan. Like others have said, however, with that $10K budget, make sure $1-2K of that goes towards room treatments.

From the description of what he wants, it would seem that B&W 800d should be on his audition short list.

Those are a good deal more than $10,000, ya know.

I would look to either large electrostatic speakers, because the ultralight film used in ESL's has less coloration than most typical dynamic drivers and great transient response. Martin Logans are one such speaker, but to get what you want, you will need to go with their top-of-the-line. One trade-off with ESL's is that you must listen right dead center or the soundstage will collapse.

With that said, when considering a dynamic driver design (cones and domes), you want the drivers to be designed to be light, stiff and well damped. Light driver diaphrams means better transient reponse (greater low level detail and articulation). Stiff and well damped means low coloration and little to no ringing, which in turn results in a more realistic, pristine sound.

I know of only three companies that have put serious research into their drivers diaphrams-- Focal, Monitor Audio, and Revel. Specifically the Focal Electra Be's or Utopia Be's, the Monitor Audio Platinum's, and the Revel Ultima 2's. You may have to buy used or find a dealer that is willing to discount to hit your budget, but it can be done. The advantage of the dynamic driver is greater dynamic capability and wider dispersion than ESLs.

What didn't you understand about "No speaker recommendations"? There's a million of those threads around here.

Leroy is asking about technology - so speak about the technology without mentioning the speaker brand. That's not what he wants.

Sorry Masser.

Seriously though, the OP should look at the web sites of some of the better speaker manufacturers. B&W's is quite informative and explains tweeter material (why they use a diamond impregnated alloy, for example), why (ITHO) the midrange is best physically separated and cabinet construction. Revel's web site is also quite informative. These sites tend to be less technical than much of what is found here while conveying the same information.

I'll second the recommendation of large electrostatics, line arrays and front horn loaded speakers.

There is one speaker technology that is little known, but seems to be pretty interesting and that is the Unity horn, namely the Danley Sound Labs SH-50. It only plays down to 80hz IIRC so you would be looking to pair it with one of the Danley Sound Labs Labsubs or tapped horn subs. You'd also have to factor in the cost of an active cross-over and bi-amping.

Other example's of front loaded horns are Edgar horns, Avant garde and the klipsch corner horns mentioned earlier.

Horns tend to have more colorations than other designs, but they tend to have the best dynamics of any speakers. You can also save big money on amps and go with one of those T-amps like the trends audio etc.

A neat concept is the Sigfried Linkwitz Orion+ speakers. They are within that price range and are dipole in concept.

Link (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_challenge.htm)

Whoops! Sorry Kpt_Krunch looks like a few of us broke the rules by making name mentions.
In all honesty there are so many fine names in the speaker world. I for one mentioned the "K" word because he stated he wanted to go tubes. And "K"'s sound fabulous with tubes. In the world of many of the above mentioned technology types tubes my not be appropriate. But hey thats my 2 cents. Now I will sit up straight in my chair, cross my hands and wait for the next test to come along.

Sorry Masser.

Seriously though, the OP should look at the web sites of some of the better speaker manufacturers. B&W's is quite informative and explains tweeter material (why they use a diamond impregnated alloy, for example), why (ITHO) the midrange is best physically separated and cabinet construction. Revel's web site is also quite informative. These sites tend to be less technical than much of what is found here while conveying the same information.

Whoops! Sorry Kpt_Krunch looks like a few of us broke the rules by making name mentions.
In all honesty there are so many fine names in the speaker world. I for one mentioned the "K" word because he stated he wanted to go tubes. And "K"'s sound fabulous with tubes. In the world of many of the above mentioned technology types tubes my not be appropriate. But hey thats my 2 cents. Now I will sit up straight in my chair, cross my hands and wait for the next test to come along.


No need to apoligize or anything like that to me - that should be reserved for the OP.

I just like the title / reference for this thread. For instance scooter, you said "Klipsch". You should have just said speakers with horn tweeters - and why YOU think a horn tweeter is the best technology. That's all I'm getting at. Klipsch is not the only speaker company that makes speakers with horn tweeters, so you didn't really offer anything here I didn't know about. But you did mention horn at least.

Kanaschick - your first post didn't even mention a tech, just a speaker brand. What does that have to do with the thread? That's all I'm saying - I read too many what speaker is best threads. Just speak to the technology and why - I find this thread refreshing. We'll never get an definitive answer as like speakers, it's all very subjective, but it's an interesting topic nevertheless.

Cheers guys - no offense meant.

A neat concept is the Sigfried Linkwitz Orion+ speakers. They are within that price range and are dipole in concept.

Link (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_challenge.htm)

Both omni and dipole have uniform polar response. They have not only a flat on axis response but also a flat off axis response. In the case of omni, the response off axis is the same as the response on axis. In the case of dipole, the response off axis is like the on axis but is attenuated.

Conventional monopole speakers inherently will never have a uniform polar response. If they did, they would not be monopole. Regardless of how flat their on axis response is, they will always put more low frequency in the room than higher frequency. The only way to prevent it would be to EQ the bass output down such that it is no longer flat on axis causing the bass to sound thin.

I second the vote for dipole. Although I personally I would stuff a pillow in back of the Orion ++. You might also want to add a sub if you want to play low organ notes loud. Don't get me wrong, the Orion can do pretty well on this all on it's own.

I've never heard it but I have to think the Jamo R-909 would also do well for you but would be out of the price range unless you find a good deal on them. It's also a very sharp looking speaker available in various colors.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I would suggest an omni speaker. MBL comes to mind here but very expensive.

The Orion, while not perfect is one of only two types with uniform polar response. It's well in budget and...well, let's just say they provide a unique cosmetic package. If you don't like the sound, stand them on two thin metal rods, paint them pink, stick a beak on the tweeter and sit them in the front lawn:) Seriously, they probably are the best choice for you based on the description of your listening habits and desired level of quality.

Monte

Leroy.... Your post SCREAMS for a technology like a LINE SOURCE ARRAY. With a Line Source Array, you get multiple drivers (as few as a dozen to over fourty in some brands) mounted vertically in a tall array. With multiple smallish woofers (say 5" - 6"), you get them all working together to give you an effective surface area of a single HUGE woofer. Which allows them to get down to 20 Hz (or even lower sometimes) with ease, yet still remaim nimble through the upper bass and midrange.

Same thing with the multiple tweeter arrays on a LS speaker. Multiple tweeters will allow one (or more as needed ) to extend down to the lower end of the crossover point while the others remain free to handle whatever material is up top. IOW, you don't have a single tweeter being pushed to its limit or into distortion trying to cover it's full spectrum on difficult material. They can also play quite loud (if that is something that's important) without strain because the multiple drivers are all working WAY below their design limits.

LSA's are extremely easy to drive and can be used with low powered tube amps or high powered solid state amps. Their drawbacks are, they are BIG. And, they need a bit of room to breathe. They can also get very expensive in a hurry. But, there ARE some in your price range that should work quite well and got rave reviews at this years CES.

I don't recommend an electrostatic speaker like mentioned above because they are not only NOTORIOUSLY difficult to drive needing very high powered amps to sound their best. They also typically present a difficult load to the amplifier (many times down to 2 ohms or less), which ads considerable $$$ to the amp choice. Also, they don't go very deep. So you will NOT get full range sound without the use of a separate bass module or sub.

I'm not a personal fan of horns. But, the very best horns (which will push the upper limits of your budget as well) can fill a room with ease and are very tube amp friendly. It's sort of a love/hate thing with horns.

I also totally agree about room treatments. Money properly spent here.... will reap HUGE rewards.

Leroy.... Your post SCREAMS for a technology like a LINE SOURCE ARRAY.

Good point John, the IDS-25 comes to mind... http://www.ids25.com/

Still monopole, same inherent problems but the narrow baffle makes for a more gradual transition from omni at low frequency to directional at high frequency. The cylindrical wave front has a -3 dB attenuation per doubling of distance compared with -6 dB on other designs thus more uniform distribution in the listening room. Plus all the advantages John mentioned are completely true.

I've evaluated the Vifa driver used in the IDS-25 and was very impressed by it in the upper bands especially in it's ability to function as a tweeter. The IDS-25 claims electrostatic quality top end and I suspect it's possible. I'm more skeptical of the bass capability claims however. While it's true the 25 drivers provide more than enough surface area, distortion on the little Vifa driver was really bad at 20 Hz with both the 2nd and 3rd harmonic being only a few dB down even with very little power input. So, I'm sure it can do 20 Hz with significant output but it is also going to be introducing a lot more 40 Hz and 60 Hz into it than I could ever stand. Since you generally don't directly compare a live performance to the recording you typically do not know the harmonic content of the original so in truth, you probably won't notice this distortion.

I'm not sure about the IDS-25 price. It may or may not be in budget. I think it's a little over, I seem to remember about $15K.

Monte

How about speakers with Bose technology? I like to listen to depressing goth music. Every time I hear it on my Bose system, I get depressed and want to cut myself. That's about as realistic as it gets.

I'm not sure about the IDS-25 price. It may or may not be in budget. I think it's a little over, I seem to remember about $15K

Closer to $20K.... about double the OP's budget. I PM'd him some that were at CES this year, got some rave reviews and were well within his budget.

How about speakers with Bose technology? I like to listen to depressing goth music. Every time I hear it on my Bose system, I get depressed and want to cut myself. That's about as realistic as it gets.

LOL

I was waiting for the Bose joke. This thread is refreshing indeed, with a new twist on an old joke as well.

Leroy.... Your post SCREAMS for a technology like a LINE SOURCE ARRAY. With a Line Source Array, you get multiple drivers (as few as a dozen to over fourty in some brands) mounted vertically in a tall array. With multiple smallish woofers (say 5" - 6"), you get them all working together to give you an effective surface area of a single HUGE woofer. Which allows them to get down to 20 Hz (or even lower sometimes) with ease, yet still remaim nimble through the upper bass and midrange.



I am not trying to start an argument but I am having some trouble getting my arms around the physics here. Since volume is a function of pi, r^2 and depth, it would seem that it would take an awful lot of 5" speakers to equal, say, a 10" woofer. On the basis of radius alone, it would appear to be about six to one and factoring in depth, more than twenty to one.

Also, is this not what Bose does in the Acoustimass -- three five inch speakers?

Please explain?

How about speakers with Bose technology? I like to listen to depressing goth music. Every time I hear it on my Bose system, I get depressed and want to cut myself. That's about as realistic as it gets.

I don't know why, but I really laughed for this one. Thanks for the humor! :)

/wrists


Anybody have any experience with the Orion+? The website seems to have quite a few nice ideas, I just cant get to auditioning them because the owners are too far away.

Leroy.... Your post SCREAMS for a technology like a LINE SOURCE ARRAY. With a Line Source Array, you get multiple drivers (as few as a dozen to over fourty in some brands) mounted vertically in a tall array. With multiple smallish woofers (say 5" - 6"), you get them all working together to give you an effective surface area of a single HUGE woofer. Which allows them to get down to 20 Hz (or even lower sometimes) with ease, yet still remaim nimble through the upper bass and midrange.

Same thing with the multiple tweeter arrays on a LS speaker. Multiple tweeters will allow one (or more as needed ) to extend down to the lower end of the crossover point while the others remain free to handle whatever material is up top. IOW, you don't have a single tweeter being pushed to its limit or into distortion trying to cover it's full spectrum on difficult material. They can also play quite loud (if that is something that's important) without strain because the multiple drivers are all working WAY below their design limits.

LSA's are extremely easy to drive and can be used with low powered tube amps or high powered solid state amps. Their drawbacks are, they are BIG. And, they need a bit of room to breathe. They can also get very expensive in a hurry. But, there ARE some in your price range that should work quite well and got rave reviews at this years CES.



Good point John....





Nice to see that my original post on this thread is being validated. Thanks for repeating pretty much what I already said quad - or maybe you didn't bother reading it.

But again - if you want a pair of speakers - no sub - want the whole shebang out of it - LS is probably you're best bet. It is not the 'best' techonlogy out there - but to get a 'regular's speaker to cover that range and sound like that is more than your budget - unless you go the used market, which will then get you something much better.

Just note that most line source speakers are horrible. They do not do what they claim to do. I found a very interesting read here about them, so you may want to read this first before you jump at the first LS speaker you come across.


http://www.meyersound.com/support/papers/line_array_theory.htm

For instance scooter, you said "Klipsch". You should have just said speakers with horn tweeters - and why YOU think a horn tweeter is the best technology.

Actually the K-horns he mentioned are, IIRC, 3 way horn loaded speakers.

What makes the K-horns interesting & somewhat unique is that they use the room as part of the horn. However they are a folded horn which is a compromise for the midbass.

Horns in general have very low driver distortions. A "real" horn speaker uses horn loading through the speakers entire frequency range, preferably straight horns above 100hz.

I am not trying to start an argument but I am having some trouble getting my arms around the physics here. Since volume is a function of pi, r^2 and depth, it would seem that it would take an awful lot of 5" speakers to equal, say, a 10" woofer. On the basis of radius alone, it would appear to be about six to one and factoring in depth, more than twenty to one.If double the radius, you quadruple the area. A 10-inch woofer would be like four 5-inchers.

Nice to see that my original post on this thread is being validated. Thanks for repeating pretty much what I already said quad - or maybe you didn't bother reading it.

Gee KK.... I didn't realize my enthusiasm for the LSA's I heard recently (and I admit, I've only heard three as oppossed to hundreds of different point source speakers) would be such a big deal to you. I'm so TERRIBLY sorry that I didn't start my post by saying.... "I TOTALLY AGREE WITH KK and HERE's WHY." I did read it and "THOUGHT" that I was enthusiastically AGREEING with you. Maybe I didn't need to go into so much detail, but my enthusiasm got the better of me. And, if you'll notice.... I went along with your self appointed policing of the thread and did not mention any name brands or provide any links. What, I get no credit for that? :p

But again - if you want a pair of speakers - no sub - want the whole shebang out of it - LS is probably you're best bet. It is not the 'best' techonlogy out there - but to get a 'regular's speaker to cover that range and sound like that is more than your budget - unless you go the used market, which will then get you something much better.

I couldn't agree more....

Just note that most line source speakers are horrible. They do not do what they claim to do. I found a very interesting read here about them, so you may want to read this first before you jump at the first LS speaker you come across.

I TOTALLY dissagree with these statements. You quote one single piece dissing them. I could provide many, MANY praising their qualities and abilities to do what they are supposed to do and provide as close to a live experience as anything currently around.

But, in keeping with your policing efforts, I will do no such thing. There is plenty the OP can find with a simple Google search. And, frankly.... if he uses the same or similar search criteria that I did, I'm certain he will come away impressed.

But, like ANY speaker purchase.... I highly recommend that the OP listen before he buys.

I am not trying to start an argument but I am having some trouble getting my arms around the physics here. Since volume is a function of pi, r^2 and depth, it would seem that it would take an awful lot of 5" speakers to equal, say, a 10" woofer. On the basis of radius alone, it would appear to be about six to one and factoring in depth, more than twenty to one.

Also, is this not what Bose does in the Acoustimass -- three five inch speakers?

Please explain?

I know nothing of Bose, other than their little cubes use $0.25 cent drivers and sound like dog doo....

But with regard to your other question....

d is diameter
r is radius - and is 1/2 of diameter
pi = 3.14159, and is constant
^2 stands for squared

Surface area = pi x r^2.

A single 6 inch driver has a radius of 3 inches.

one driver = 3x3x3.14159 = 28.27 inches ^ 2

6 drivers = 6 x 28.27 inches = 169.62 inches ^2

So ... for a single driver....

Take 169.62 / pi = 54

The square root of 54 is 7.35 - which is the radius of the driver.

Take 7.35 x 2 = 14.7 inches for the driver's diameter

In conclusion, six - 6" drivers working in tandem would equal 1 - 14" driver.... give or take.

MBL are truly amazing for music. At your price used would be required to get the Radialstrahler drivers in the high end units. Other brands to consider would be Revel and Salk.

Gee KK.... I didn't realize my enthusiasm for the LSA's I heard recently (and I admit, I've only heard three as oppossed to hundreds of different point source speakers) would be such a big deal to you. I'm so TERRIBLY sorry that I didn't start my post by saying.... "I TOTALLY AGREE WITH KK and HERE's WHY." I did read it and "THOUGHT" that I was enthusiastically AGREEING with you. Maybe I didn't need to go into so much detail, but my enthusiasm got the better of me. And, if you'll notice.... I went along with your self appointed policing of the thread and did not mention any name brands or provide any links. What, I get no credit for that? :p



I couldn't agree more....



I TOTALLY dissagree with these statements. You quote one single piece dissing them. I could provide many, MANY praising their qualities and abilities to do what they are supposed to do and provide as close to a live experience as anything currently around.

But, in keeping with your policing efforts, I will do no such thing. There is plenty the OP can find with a simple Google search. And, frankly.... if he uses the same or similar search criteria that I did, I'm certain he will come away impressed.

But, like ANY speaker purchase.... I highly recommend that the OP listen before he buys.

LOL - sorry quad - my post didn't read like I was thinking. I honestly just meant that it was nice someone was agreeing me and I wasn't sure if you had read what I had typed earlier is all. And you're absolutely right - you didn't mention a brand - 100% marks for that one :D

But I've heard only one LS speaker, and for the money it wasn't worth it. The mids were outstanding on it, but had no bass to them (it did have a specially designed subwoofer connected to the base for the bass, but that costs extra) and the highs were not that detailed at all with only one tweeter. If the highs and lows were like the mids, I would have mortgaged the house and bought them on the spot.

The LS speaker is a difficult speaker to get right, but the technology has peaked my interest. I'd really like to listen to the McIntosh XRT2K, that freq. range looks like the just the ticket - 16hz to 45 khz. Only at a mere $40,000... each.....American (that would work out to about $60K Canadian). But you'd need a very very large room for them, with dedicated 2000 watt mono amps for each one probably before you'd get the best out of them. Talk about a chunk of change :)

Anyway - apologies if you misread my post there - it doesn't read well. I honestly thought you missed my post on it - hence why I was glad you validated what I was thinking.

Now, the trick is finding a LS that sounds good and is affordable - one has potential and I'm anxiously awaiting it's general release.

LOL - sorry quad - my post didn't read like I was thinking. I honestly just meant that it was nice someone was agreeing me and I wasn't sure if you had read what I had typed earlier is all. And you're absolutely right - you didn't mention a brand - 100% marks for that one :D

But I've heard only one LS speaker, and for the money it wasn't worth it. The mids were outstanding on it, but had no bass to them (it did have a specially designed subwoofer connected to the base for the bass, but that costs extra) and the highs were not that detailed at all with only one tweeter. If the highs and lows were like the mids, I would have mortgaged the house and bought them on the spot.

The LS speaker is a difficult speaker to get right, but the technology has peaked my interest. I'd really like to listen to the McIntosh XRT2K, that freq. range looks like the just the ticket - 16hz to 45 khz. Only at a mere $40,000... each.....American (that would work out to about $60K Canadian). But you'd need a very very large room for them, with dedicated 2000 watt mono amps for each one probably before you'd get the best out of them. Talk about a chunk of change :)

Anyway - apologies if you misread my post there - it doesn't read well. I honestly thought you missed my post on it - hence why I was glad you validated what I was thinking.

Now, the trick is finding a LS that sounds good and is affordable - one has potential and I'm anxiously awaiting it's general release.

Cool.... no worries. I just couldn't figure out why it seemed you were taking me to task. Glad we cleared that up.... thanks.

Not sure which LSA you heard that wasn't good.... but with your description, here's what I see....
The single tweeter goes against a LSA's principle
I personally don't think you NEED an added subwoofer if you've got enough mid-bass drivers of say, 6" or 6.5"
Plus, like the single tweeter, a single sub is counter to what a LSA does and is all about
The crossover on something like that would have to be a nightmare
So, consider an array that had multiple mid bass drivers, and multiple neo-magnetic tweeters (which play well down into the upper midrange octave). You can then set a fairly low single crossover with each array free to do what it does best. With the extra surface area available to handle whatever is thrown at it.

Of course, the quality of the drivers and cabinet are as important as anything else, so that would come into play just like a regular point source speaker.

One problem with the line source is the quantity of hardware they require. The designer is stuck between using very cheap drivers obtaining poor results or using higher priced drivers resulting in very high retail pricing. You know, a $100 tweeter isn't a big deal...unless you need thirty of them!

Yes I agree with Kpt_Krunch that there are some poor quality line sources but that really has nothing to do with the design theory of line sources. There are good and bad designs among every design approach. The aforementioned hardware cost however can make the task of a line source designer more difficult to get good results at a specified price point.

So back to the original posters question, I think we are down to Line source, dipole, and Omni...not necessarily in that order. They all have their limitations and their advantages. Another twist to throw into the mix which can be applied to all of the above is active crossovers. If you are willing to use multiple amplifiers, this approach can be an advantage regardless of which speaker type you choose.

In my personal opinion conventional box speakers don't really have any acoustic advantages at all and are plagued with multiple fundamental flaws so I don't have much application for them. These have some convenience advantages but that's about it. I still build them, most of my friends are not like me, they just want something they can connect to their Kenwood receiver so they get conventional boxes.

Monte