mattg3, Also Elite speakers can be mounted to non-Elite panels so many folks would be interested in adding the Elite speakers to their Pioneer panels.

-Robert

For me its all about size since Im upgrading to a 9g 50 from a 433cmx.I can just about fit a 50 into my space where 433 is but no speakers would make it.My wish was some kind of ribbon speaker that went on side or back but this was not to be.I have two small cambridge soundworks speakers under my 433 plasma below my center channel.I wish pioneer had redesigned the whole line since Im sure the regular 9g will have that awful speaker below the unit that leaves a hole when removed.

mattg3, sorry no amplifier in the 9.5G Elite monitors.

-RobertOne quick question Robert. I see you listed "more energy efficient" for the monitor line due out this fall. And now you refer to them as 9.5G... Does this mean the panels themselves will actually be different (incorporating more of the higher lumen tech possibly)? The only other thing I can think of that might be connected with "more energy efficient" would be because there's no amps included.... but that would be a bit of a disingenuous claim then...


ron

Ron, No audio amplifier, no QAM tuner, No OTA tuner, new slim design, new thin bezel and yes a few other energy efficiencies as well.

I am invited to Pioneer's Elite annual dealer conference and training May 13-15 and will post what I learn.

-Robert

....or post what can be disclosed.

JimP, ^^ what fun would that be? ;)

-Robert

Dealer...provides future access to next year's meeting. :)

Ron, No audio amplifier, no QAM tuner, No OTA tuner, new slim design, new thin bezel and yes a few other energy efficiencies as well.

I am invited to Pioneer's Elite annual dealer conference and training May 13-15 and will post what I learn.

-RobertYeah, I understand all those deletions on the monitors, but my point is that if a person is not using their amp or tuners anyway, there really isn't an increase in energy efficiency unless there's been some actual changes to the panel itself. Anyway, looking forward to hearing more specifics on the monitor line to see how they will compare to the panny commercials. Thanks.


ron

Yeah, I understand all those deletions on the monitors, but my point is that if a person is not using their amp or tuners anyway, there really isn't an increase in energy efficiency unless there's been some actual changes to the panel itself.

Me thinks it's all a marketing slight of hand, as it often is...

Manufacturers/vendors do not like keen customers like us, they want sheep. ;)

Yeah, I understand all those deletions on the monitors, but my point is that if a person is not using their amp or tuners anyway, there really isn't an increase in energy efficiency unless there's been some actual changes to the panel itself. Anyway, looking forward to hearing more specifics on the monitor line to see how they will compare to the panny commercials. Thanks.


ron

Ron, Amps and both tuners are always on.

I'll ask about what other electrical efficiencies and other changes on the Elite monitor line.

-Robert

Me thinks it's all a marketing slight of hand, as it often is...

Manufacturers/vendors do not like keen customers like us, they want sheep. ;)

We're speaking about electronics, not marketing.

Regarding categories of customers my target customer base is the keenest of all as we cater to advanced users. And although I can't officially speak for Elite, but I think we all agree they are in the same high-end premium performance videophile marketplace.

-Robert

Hi Robert! I'm a guy from denmark wondering if the monitor models will be available in europe, if yes, what model names/numbers will the have and when will they be available?

- Tobias

We're speaking about electronics, not marketing.

Ok, lets talk electronics. The PRO-150 for example, has a peak power usage of 536W. Of that, 34W is the 2 channel 17W amps (at full power). The tuner power usage is not listed. Therefore, if someone does not use the amps they save almost all of those 34W since the amps and not drawing anything other than the baseline current, which is not 34W. I can't say how much power the tuner is or is not using but I'll assume it is not much when not in use. Suffice it to say that the overwhelming power user is the monitor itself.

If the elimination of these components is the only source Pioneer is using to back up their claim of greater efficiency then they are being disingenuous as the energy being saved is peanuts and not all that different from someone simply not using those components in the units that include them.

Regarding categories of customers my target customer base is the keenest of all as we cater to advanced users. And although I can't officially speak for Elite, but I think we all agree they are in the same high-end premium performance videophile marketplace.


Though I have no argument with this I would, however, add that with many high end products (not just AV) often times "advanced users" are actually image conscious folks in disguise that want "the best and most expensive xxxx" without even undestanding why they are so. These customers are among the best sheep in the market. They ask no questions other than "what's the best?". ;)

Ron, Amps and both tuners are always on.

So do the 34W amps draw 34W when on but not in use? No. :rolleyes: And even if they did their power usage is insignificant in comparison to the power used by the monitor itself. PRO-150: 536W of which 34W are the amps at Full Power. Lame.

Cronin, don't forget these panels have two separate tuners, ATSC for OTA and QAM for cable, you only referenced one tuner. Another benefit is without the stereo amplifies and ATSC and QAM tuners less heat will be generated.

Further, we might see a more efficient, lower wattage power supply.

Also I expect to see other electrical efficiencies employed.

-Robert

Also I expect to see other electrical efficiencies employed.

I would hope so.

I don't see the big deal. I think it's great they offer a choice if folks don't need it it's less waste (no matter how little it's a step in the right direction).

Let's just wait and see what the specs are.

So do the 34W amps draw 34W when on but not in use? No. :rolleyes: And even if they did the their power usage is insignificant in comparison to the power used by the monitor itself. PRO-150: 536W of which 34W are the amps at Full Power. Lame.

Cronin, not sure why you select your words and emoticons in attack mode. I never said anything about how many watts the audio amplifiers draw when at full volume or at mute. So maybe your thinking about someone else you don't like or maybe your having a bad day.

I am the one that brought this breaking information to AVS Forum. I am just being helpful.

-Robert

^^ And the lack of ATSC and QAM tuners might mean less chance of buzzing for those of us that are superstitious. :)

Cronin, not sure why you select your words and emoticons in attack mode.

Attack mode? Who was on the attack when you said this...

We're speaking about electronics, not marketing.

Maybe you didn't know that though I work in sales (and high tech sales at that), I have a degree in mechanical engineering. So yes, I know the difference between electronics and marketing. I responded to your attack in kind. In case you haven't noticed, that is not a wise thing to do. I have brought several members to their knees for that.

I don't have an issue with you, however, I have noticed that you sometimes answer questions without thinking that backs you into a corner when you are asked a follow-up questions. Then, rather than admitting you misposke or don't really know the answer, you start back pedaling and make it worse.

Remember when you were asked about the reliability of a Pro-1150 and you replied "only the 110 is better". Then in a follow up about why, you replied "because is has Pure mode", yet they BOTH have Pure mode. Follow the link to refresh your memory...

I'm looking to pull the trigger on the Pioneer Pro 1150 today and was wondering about the reliability of the panel. I know the elite's come with a 2 year warranty but should I extend it to 4 years?

I missed the boat on the 5080 but can't seem to pass up the price on the 1150 and I would like to be convinced it's worth my $$.

You basically misspoke and backed yourself into a corner. Yet, rather than just saying so, you continued to babble and put yourself into a deeper hole.

You did the same today with by saying the 9G monitors will be "more energy efficient" without really knowing why and then the reasons you gave when asked follow up questions amounted to BS which dug you a deeper hole. You would have been better off just stating that you don't know the answer. Words of wisdom...

Mods, please I need to briefly respond as I can't let these untrue statements be posted without my dispute.

Cronin, I'll send you a PM so we move this off the forum. But for the record I 100% unequivocally dispute everything you said.

I knew all of the facts that make the monitor draw less current that's why I posted the list immediately when asked. Not sure what BS you are talking about. Cutting consumption by 10% on 60" models and even more on the 50" panel is OK with me. I like that efficiency improvement.

My comment about "PURE" mode was comparing Elite to non-Elite panels. You have the posts and my reply confused.

I know you have a reputation of attempting to bring members to their knees as I read your posts and you have attacked me as well before. In fact, you actually brought it up in the particular post yourself when you accurately re-quoted my saying the Elite was a better TV. Specifically, you said I should never use the word better. This is the truth about what actually happened on the specific incident you referenced.

Look Cronin, the biggest problem I have is your choice of words and sentences. I recommend trying to rephrase your future questions to be helpful instead of harmful and attacking.

I love AVS Forum and it's management, mods, members and visitors as this is the place to go to for the best and most complete information. I'm not going to be deterred by hecklers, but I am angry.

-Robert

Robert I try to ignore him but all he does is put people down, I dont get it.

Robert I try to ignore him but all he does is put people down, I dont get it.

Roman,

Put him in the airlock. :D

I knew all of the facts that make the monitor draw less current that's why I posted the list immediately when asked. Not sure what BS you are talking about. Cutting consumption by 10% on 60" models and even more on the 50" panel is OK with me. I like that efficiency improvement.

You have no clue if that is true or not. As discussed, simply not using the components you mentioned on a set with them would in all likelyhood amount approximately the same "energy savings" as not having them on the panel at all. And 10% is still peanuts no matter how you slice it.

My comment about "PURE" mode was comparing Elite to non-Elite panels. You have the posts and my reply confused.

Your comment about Pure mode came out of left field. The question was about the reliability of the 1150; you replied "only the 110 is better" then when asked about why, you said because it had Pure mode which has no relevance to the original question asked (which was about RELIABILTY of the 1150), and secondly was not a reason why the 110 is better than the 1150 which was the follow up question he asked. You spun you wheels back then and you are still spinning them now.

I know you have a reputation of attempting to bring members to their knees as I read your posts and you have attacked me as well before. In fact, you actually brought it up in the particular post yourself when you accurately re-quoted my saying the Elite was a better TV. Specifically, you said I should never use the word better. This is the truth about what actually happened on the specific incident you referenced.

People can read the string of posts themselves and decide. That's why I linked to the initial post that started it all - for those that want to read who is telling the truth.

Look Cronin, the biggest problem I have is your choice of words and sentences. I recommend trying to rephrase your future questions to be helpful instead of harmful and attacking.

Next time, don't start a reply to a post of mine with an attack and I will respond in kind

I love AVS Forum and it's management, mods, members and visitors as this is the place to go to for the best and most complete information. I'm not going to be deterred by hecklers, but I am angry.

Who is trying to deter you? I was just pointing out facts.

Robert I try to ignore him but all he does is put people down, I dont get it.

I don't try to put anyone down. I just point out inaccuracies, inconsistancies, embellishments, questionable business practices and ethics, etc., when I come across them so that members here can make informed decisions about their purchases. The people that have issues with that are the vendors. Well, this is a retail site and a retail forum, and as such your posts amount to doing business. If you guys were not so deficient in the areas noted above, there would be nothing for me to point out.

No one has complained about myself and Robert for years (yes years, not a couple of months). It is only you. That is my only point and I defend Robert (which he doesn't need my defense) because I have known him for years.

No one has complained about myself and Robert for years (yes years, not a couple of months). It is only you. That is my only point and I defend Robert (which he doesn't need my defense) because I have known him for years.

If that is indeed the case, it is because they don't know any better - I do. Sales people love sheep, and this forum is full of them. Heck, most members think this is just an enthusiast forum. :rolleyes: BTW, I have a great deal of respect for your former co-worker, AlexInvision, as he is the ONLY one to have openly admitted that this is a retail forum in reply to a thread yesterday that was subsequently deleted. Kudos to you Alex, you are the only one with balls. If you need anything from me, let me know, I have your back. ;)

My company is restricted to sales beyond 200 miles of my store. Before I knew this I shipped a few Pioneer panels and 4 were broken in transit, of which only one was paid for by the carrier. Of course, I replaced the panels immediately at no charge. So that's the extent of my Pioneer sales to AVS Forum members. And of course, we do not accept ortders from 98% of the forum members anyway as they are beyond my authorized territory.

I have answered PMs, emails and posted strickly as a supporting member to help other members by bringing industry inside information and technical information. Just like so many other outstanding AVS Forum members do.

In the past 6 months alone, I have turned down many hundreds of thousands of dollars of business with some of the greatest forum members simply to comply with Pioneer's dealer policy.

I am guilty of being a Professional TV Broadcast senior display engineer and being so blown away by this year's Kuros. So you all hear my enthusiasm in my posts and my motive is nothing short of 100% pure.

Thanks to the mods for keeping these posts alive. We're curbing it now.

-Robert

My company is restricted to sales beyond 200 miles of my store. Before I knew this I shipped a few Pioneer panels and 4 were broken in transit, of which only one was paid for by the carrier. Of course, I replaced the panels immediately at no charge. So that's the extent of my Pioneer sales to AVS Forum members. And of course, we do not accept ortders from 98% of the forum members anyway as they are beyond my authorized territory.

I have answered PMs, emails and posted strickly as a supporting member to help other members by bringing industry inside information and technical information. Just like so many other outstanding AVS Forum members do.

In the past 6 months alone, I have turned down many hundreds of thousands of dollars of business with some of the greatest forum members simply to comply with Pioneer's dealer policy.

I am guilty of being a Professional TV Broadcast senior display engineer and being so blown away by this year's Kuros. So you all hear my enthusiasm in my posts and my motive is nothing short of 100% pure.

Thanks to the mods for keeping these posts alive. We're curbing it now.

-Robert

I can respect that. Like I said, I have no issues with you. Maybe your enthusiasm gets the best of you when you make some replies, just be conscious of that.

BTW, the "Me thinks" post that started this all was not directed at you but at Pioneer. I think you took it the wrong way, like I was questioning you, and things started going downhill from there. The only statement I took exception to from you was the "electronics/marketing" statement as that was clearly an attack. Anyhow, let's put this behind us. No hard feelings. :)

Cronin and DTV TiVo Dealer are AOK :)

Much thanks all is good.

-Robert

so for the record - can DNice or someone who really 'knows' answer a few basic questions that are directly related to this thread?

1. When can I have a 9G in my home?

2. At what price - 5020 and 111?

3. Will both of those options have speakers and a stand?

4. What will the major differences be between the 5020 and 111?

Sorry for being dense, but I just went through 26 pages and the number of tangents left me without clarification on what I was originally looking for. Thanks.

And a tangent of my own - totally unrelated. How far away should I position my three front satellite speakers from my new TV? I know this probably belongs elsewhere ...

1. When can I have a 9G in my home?June

2. At what price - 5020 and 111?5020 MSRP: 4000

111FD MSRP: 5000

3. Will both of those options have speakers and a stand?Yes

4. What will the major differences be between the 5020 and 111?Features. You can go on Pioneer's website and compare the current non-Elites vs Elites as a reference point.

D-Nice, now I know in part how you got your forum user name, you are D'Nicest guy!

Thanks for your forum support, it's members like you that make this forum as great as it is. Every member gets a lot out of every post you make.

-Robert

Thanks for the kind words Robert.

Thanks for the kind words Robert.

I love you :)

DNice,

Thanks for the prompt clarification - so in your personal opinion it would be worth waiting for the 9G in respect to its improvement over the current model?

5020 MSRP: 4000

111FD MSRP: 4500



Interesting.. there is some news... Elite at only 5 hundy more than a standard Kuro for 9G. That should make the decision a little tougher (or maybe a little easier) this year.

MSRP of the 6020?

5020 MSRP: 4000

111FD MSRP: 4500


If thats the case then I'll be getting the 111FD, Thanks for the info D-Nice I look forward to seeing your calibrations for the 9G sets once there out!

MSRP of the 6020?

Actually the MSRP of the Pro151FD or even the monitor version would be nice too! :)

June
5020 MSRP: 4000

111FD MSRP: 4500


I could've sworn you said that Russwong's prices for the 50" panels were correct.

5020 MSRP: 4000

111FD MSRP: 5000

Anyways, thanks for the info!

I could've sworn you said that Russwong's prices for the 50" panels were correct.

5020 MSRP: 4000

111FD MSRP: 5000

Anyways, thanks for the info!

I believe he was talking only about the 5020 MSRP.

I believe he was talking only about the 5020 MSRP.

I guess.....

I wonder what this means for the PRO-151FD if they are only charging a $500 premium for the 50" Elite???

This is going to be a fun Summer!:Dhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/drool.gifhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/hyper.gifhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/rock.gif

Does anyone know if any efficiency improvements are expected on the conusmer models - or do we have to wait for the monitors to see any of that?

Hi,

I hear that the Elite Pro151FD MSRP would be $6500.
Would be safe to assume when it comes to the market in September we could get it with a 20% discount of that MSRP?
I do hope so.
Also, how much does usually the speakers and stand cost?

Thanks for any feedback.

Hi,

I hear that the Elite Pro151FD MSRP would be $6500.
Would be safe to assume when it comes to the market in September we could get it with a 20% discount of that MSRP?
I do hope so.
Also, how much does usually the speakers and stand cost?

Thanks for any feedback.

The speakers and stand should come with it. At least it did with the 8th generations.

if it's a $500 difference which translates into $350 or so in dealer terms, i might consider the 111 - but then again it's another month or two to wait........ so i don't know.

mattg3, sorry no amplifier in the 9.5G Elite monitors.

-Robert

Hi Robert! I'm a guy from denmark wondering if the monitor models will be available in europe, if yes, what model names/numbers will the have and when will they be available?

- Tobias

I could've sworn you said that Russwong's prices for the 50" panels were correct.

5020 MSRP: 4000

111FD MSRP: 5000

Anyways, thanks for the info!You're right. Sorry. I've corrected my post

Actually the MSRP of the Pro151FD or even the monitor version would be nice too! :)MSRP of the 151FD is 6500

Hi Robert! I'm a guy from denmark wondering if the monitor models will be available in europe, if yes, what model names/numbers will the have and when will they be available?

- TobiasI don't think the EU will be getting the monitor versions of the 9G. I'll verify with my contact.

D-Nice,
Do you have more breaking news for us?

Chris

Does anyone know if any efficiency improvements are expected on the conusmer models - or do we have to wait for the monitors to see any of that?Not anything significant. The monitor series will draw less power compared to the TV versions, but I think that is common sense.......less internal components = less power used.

D-Nice,
Do you have more breaking news for us?

ChrisSorry, not at this time.

Sorry, not at this time.

:-(

Whenever I look at my subscribed threads and I see a contribution of Mighty D, I feel like a 5y old who's about to get his present from under the Xmas tree :)

By the way, I'm also interested in the 9G monitor availability in the EU ...

Is April 24 still the day Pioneer makes available official information on the specifications and pricing of the 9gs

To the best of my knowledge it's May 13th.

-Robert

MSRP of the 151FD is 6500
:) Thanks! That's $1000 less than last year's MSRP. Let's hope the Canadian
price is actually closer to the U.S. one this time, instead of $1500 more (the
150 was $8999 in Canada last year). It's one of the reasons why I had such
a negative attitude towards Pioneer Canada. Considering the extremely high
price (in comparison), we ended up with worse support than the U.S. when it
came to troubleshooting issues (they outsourced their tech support so that they
could wipe their hands clean when there was a disagreement between a tech and
an owner). Heck, the 6010 in Canada cost about the same as the 150FD in the U.S.

U.S. MSRP of 150FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-150FD.Kuro)
vs.
Canadian MSRP of 150FD (http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Products/Home+Entertainment/Plasma+TVs+%26+Monitors/Elite+TVs/ci.PRO-150FD.Kuro)
Canadian MSRP of the 6010 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Products/Home+Entertainment/Plasma+TVs+%26+Monitors/Pioneer+TVs/ci.PDP-6010FD.Kuro)

I guess no word on Fair pricing for Canada or the U.K. is there?? I wish we had a
Robert, Roman, Alex, or UMR over here. :(

I guess no word on Fair pricing for Canada or the U.K. is there?? I wish we had a
Robert, Roman, Alex, or UMR over here. :(

I wish too .... :(

Is April 24 still the day Pioneer makes available official information on the specifications and pricing of the 9gs

That's the date for Germany (they'll be showing the 9G Kuros at the High End 2008 show in Munich).

I wish too .... :(

Check with your dealers many ship to Canada and I know Europe is the best for us personally.

Will the Nine-G produce better whites?

http://hdguru.com/the-madness-continues-part-ii-2008-mitsubishi-panasonic/230/

The pictures in the article show what I'm so peevish about when it comes to whites on PDP.

Check with your dealers many ship to Canada and I know Europe is the best for us personally.

I know, I know but there are some warranty issues plus the cost of shipping and returning if something was wrong ... it would just be easier to deal with a Canadian dealer at a decent price. Now, I am not saying I will not buy from you or another sponsor ;) .

Will the Nine-G produce better whites?

http://hdguru.com/the-madness-continues-part-ii-2008-mitsubishi-panasonic/230/

The pictures in the article show what I'm so peevish about when it comes to whites on PDP.

On a scale from 1 to I don't care about searing my retinas, I'm about a 11.

Those pictures do nothing more than show the other TVs are brighter in the absolute sense.
Now you haven't considered if they were calibrated and which white is closer to reference levels. Ultimately that is more important than my TV having the ability to double as a lighthouse lamp.

Those pictures do nothing more than show the other TVs are brighter in the absolute sense.Exactly. The person you quoted doesn't understand the concept of Rec709 whites.

At any rate, the 9G Kuros will have higher "absolute" peak brightness.....of which I will never use. I, like you, perfer to look at TV per the standards that are in place.

Will the Nine-G produce better whites?

http://hdguru.com/the-madness-continues-part-ii-2008-mitsubishi-panasonic/230/

The pictures in the article show what I'm so peevish about when it comes to whites on PDP.

All that pic shows is the loss of detail because of supposed brightness. I used
to own an Sharp LCD and I remember getting headaches a whole lot. I have
since moved to a Pro-150FD and the whites are more than acceptable. The
only thing I'll admit I dislike is the way the peak-limiter can make the whites
appear irregular depending on content (ie: full screen whites look different to
partial screen whites). If there was a median level so that I didn't notice this,
it would be great. Still, it's no big deal.

Still, it's obvious in the pic there are better shades of blue on the pioneer. For
all we know, it's not supposed to be bright at all.

My display is 25ft from my AV stack. Has anyone confirmed that the 60" Elite will be a 2 box product (like my Pro 930)? If so, what will the connecter between the 2 Media box and the display look like. If I need to run anything other than my existing HDMI cable, I will likely opt for the 6020 instead.

Will the Nine-G produce better whites?

http://hdguru.com/the-madness-continues-part-ii-2008-mitsubishi-panasonic/230/

The pictures in the article show what I'm so peevish about when it comes to whites on PDP.

Since LCD's whites are so upleasant to watch in a darkened room, it wouldn't make much difference. But if this is your primary reason for choosing a display, get an LCD and visit those threads.

My display is 25ft from my AV stack. Has anyone confirmed that the 60" Elite will be a 2 box product (like my Pro 930)? If so, what will the connecter between the 2 Media box and the display look like. If I need to run anything other than my existing HDMI cable, I will likely opt for the 6020 instead.There is no MR with the151FD. You are gonna have to run HDMI cables from your media stack to the panel and/or get a receiver with multiple HDMI inputs....then you will need on 1 HDMI run to your panel.

Any word on the speakers or speaker placement for the 5020? Im not a big fan of the speaker bar on the bottom of the 5010.

Any word on the speakers or speaker placement for the 5020? Im not a big fan of the speaker bar on the bottom of the 5010.Well, you are going to be disappointed as the speaker is on the bottom from the 5020/6020.

Is the 6020 going to MSRP for $5500?

Well, you are going to be disappointed as the speaker is on the bottom from the 5020/6020.

Thanks for the info.

I just found out my taxes are going to be much less then I thought and I have the money to buy a 5010 right now! The fact that I didn't have the money for a 5010 was the easiest way for me to wait for the 5020...

Now 1/2 of me wants to wait for a 5020 and the other 1/2 of me wants to go buy a 5010 tonight...

Someone please talk some sense into me.

WAIT.

there you go.

I just found out my taxes are going to be much less then I thought and I have the money to buy a 5010 right now! The fact that I didn't have the money for a 5010 was the easiest way for me to wait for the 5020...

Now 1/2 of me wants to wait for a 5020 and the other 1/2 of me wants to go buy a 5010 tonight...

Someone please talk some sense into me.

See Post #19 in the link below, that is a 5010 on the left and 10G-ish on the right

http://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=182467

It's not 9G but it shows how critical getting as close to black as you can get is. 9G is 5x better black than 8G.

It's totally convinced me to wait, possibly even for 10G. But it isn't so bad suffering with a 6G set I have now.

Wait !!!

Someone please talk some sense into me.

Just wait for the newer model in a couple of months. I think it will be hard to read all the impressions in here about how the subtle improvements of the 8G to 9G make a difference to people. You may feel that you bought an inferior product and may not enjoy your TV to the fullest.

I know it sounds weird but that's the psychology of buying technology right before a newer version comes out and everyone is excited about the new stuff and your new purchase seems less shiny.

See Post #19 in the link below, that is a 5010 on the left and 10G-ish on the right

http://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=182467

It's not 9G but it shows how critical getting as close to black as you can get is. 9G is 5x better black than 8G.

It's totally convinced me to wait, possibly even for 10G. But it isn't so bad suffering with a 6G set I have now.

Wait !!!

There will be differences for sure but your eyes may not detect differences as great as in that picture. There is a thread in this forum from back in January where that pic was discussed. Basically that a very long exposure time was used on the camera.

I believe this was it:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=971342&highlight=exposure

Hey guys check out this desktop wallpaper I made from one of the pics from the forum





http://chadmak09.smugmug.com/photos/281499527_TtyQe-M.jpg

Since LCD's whites are so upleasant to watch in a darkened room, it wouldn't make much difference. But if this is your primary reason for choosing a display, get an LCD and visit those threads.

I seriously don't understand this type of mentality. Everything is not black or white (LCD or plasma). Just because someone believes that LCD handles whites better than plasma doesn't mean that they want an LCD. Now having said that these are things to keep in mind when someone says plasma desires improved whites:

- Most of us realize that contrast is probably set at 100 on the LCDs in stores and yes those would be eye searing in a home type environment. Plasma doesn't have to reach LCD type level whites with the eye popping intensity but there is definitely room for improvement.

- SCREEN SIZE MATTERS! This is SO overlooked by the most technical people. As the screen size increases so does light output. The 4280's whites are a bit whiter than the 6010 due to light output. Having said that, when a 6010 owner complains about whites/brightness it's rather frustrating when a 4280 owner to come back and say they are white/bright enough.

- For a display to accurately display a true white it MUST be able to display a any shade of white that is visible to the eye(and may I add without crushing white level detail). Also, white levels on plasmas do vary significantly depending on the content on screen(as Nambit commented). Can you honestly tell me that if you saw footage of a snow covered mountain on screen that it's as white on your Kuro than it is if it were in person? That's the true test.

We all have different tastes. To me, having brightness with TVs is like having power in a car. You may not need it all the time but when you need it it's nice to have. Let's face it, all video related material is not top quality! Some broadcasts are too dark, some have too much contrast, some are oversaturated, etc. The ability to compensate for the lack of quality in a signal is always a good thing.

Will the Nine-G produce better whites?

http://hdguru.com/the-madness-continues-part-ii-2008-mitsubishi-panasonic/230/

The pictures in the article show what I'm so peevish about when it comes to whites on PDP.

I can tell you though that the Kuro's have much whiter whites than the Panny you own. Before I sold my 58PX600U I compared my 6010 to it and whites were much whiter. The biggest issue with the whites is when there's decent amount of white on the screen at once (like Nambit explained). And the link you posted is pretty much dead on with the 6010. Although the Laservue and the sharp LCD are probably too bright. If I upgrade this year I'm not commiting to the 9G yet until I hear more about the Laser TV and what it's going to cost (even if it is a silly RPTV).

I just found out my taxes are going to be much less then I thought and I have the money to buy a 5010 right now! The fact that I didn't have the money for a 5010 was the easiest way for me to wait for the 5020...

Now 1/2 of me wants to wait for a 5020 and the other 1/2 of me wants to go buy a 5010 tonight...

Someone please talk some sense into me.

If you wait you wont have any buyers remorse when you see everyone on the forum talking about how amazing their new 5020/6020's are ;)

I just found out my taxes are going to be much less then I thought and I have the money to buy a 5010 right now! The fact that I didn't have the money for a 5010 was the easiest way for me to wait for the 5020...

Now 1/2 of me wants to wait for a 5020 and the other 1/2 of me wants to go buy a 5010 tonight...

Someone please talk some sense into me.

Yes, you should wait!
It is getting so close to time for the 9G release.
If you are the type that may get buyers remorse then by all means wait!

Don't feel bad though,
There are many of us that are anxiously waiting for the 9th generation also.
I am having to endure a walmart bought phillips plasma right now and this has been the worse experience of my life.
The other day I was watching a movie on this new phillips pooper TV I have and all of a sudden I bursted into a seizure and body spasms. I think I am having Kuro withdrawals.
I think I may be a Kuro addict. Are there Kuroholics anonomouse meetings I can go to??
Are there any Kuro-done clinics??
only a couple more months left but I don't know if I can make it. I may have a Kuro-relapse and go to bestbuy and get another 5080 to hold me off until 9th Gen time.

For a display to accurately display a true white it MUST be able to display a any shade of white that is visible to the eye(and may I add without crushing white level detail). Also, white levels on plasmas do vary significantly depending on the content on screen(as Nambit commented). Can you honestly tell me that if you saw footage of a snow covered mountain on screen that it's as white on your Kuro than it is if it were in person? That's the true test.What exactly is your definition of white? Here is the definition of white per SMPTE-C, Rec709, and PAL:


SMPTE-C:
--------------x-------y-------Y
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0

Rec709:
--------------x-------y-------Y
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0

PAL
PAL----------x-------y-------Y
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0


Now here are the stadardized peak light output numbers for each technology:


CRT tubes: 30-40 fL
Plasma: 30-40 fL
LCD flat panel: 50-60 fL
Digital rear projection: 30-40 fL
Digital front projection: 12-16 fL



Now, if your definition of white and/or brightness levels are outside of those parameters, you prefer a white and/or brightness that goes against the content standards.

I can tell you though that the Kuro's have much whiter whites than the Panny you own. Before I sold my 58PX600U I compared my 6010 to it and whites were much whiter.I disagree. What Panasonic chose to use as an out-of-the-box color temp does not mean that the Kuro is better with whites.

A calibrated Kuro and a calibrated 58PX600u will have nearly equal whites.

I disagree. What Panasonic chose to use as an out-of-the-box color temp does not mean that the Kuro is better with whites.

A calibrated Kuro and a calibrated 58PX600u will have nearly equal whites.

No doubt about it. I have a calibtrated industrial plasma and a neighbor the 60" Elite both calibrated by Greg Loewen. The whites on both are identical and as good as I have seen on a display. I am completely baffled by this talk of poor whites. If your display is calibrated by someone who really knows what they are doing, you will have nothing to complain about in terms of proper whites. I know I sure don't. I for one can't wait until the 9G Elite Monitor arrives for testing.

My understanding is that the Elites will be out at around the same time as the non-elites. I haven't confirmed this, but it's the June window for the 111FD/151FD and the 5020FD/6020FD that has been mentioned before.

The monitors are currently set to be the same price as their elite counterparts the 151 and the 111. Just to refresh people's memory, these are the thin bezel, no stand, no speaker, no tuner displays.

Just to remind people what's been posted before:
Availability for both Elite and Non-Elite is June. Monitors have not been finalized yet.
5020FD - $4000
111FD - $5000 (price for the 50" Elite Monitor thin bezel also)
6020FD - $5500
151FD - $6500 (price for the 60" Elite Monitor thin bezel also)

I am having to endure a walmart bought phillips plasma right now and this has been the worse experience of my life.


i wish i had your life.

My understanding is that the Elites will be out at around the same time as the non-elites. I haven't confirmed this, but it's the June window for the 111FD/151FD and the 5020FD/6020FD that has been mentioned before.

The monitors are currently set to be the same price as their elite counterparts the 151 and the 111. Just to refresh people's memory, these are the thin bezel, no stand, no speaker, no tuner displays.

Just to remind people what's been posted before:
Availability for both Elite and Non-Elite is June. Monitors have not been finalized yet.
5020FD - $4000
111FD - $5000 (price for the 50" Elite Monitor thin bezel also)
6020FD - $5500
151FD - $6500 (price for the 60" Elite Monitor thin bezel also)


Thanks Russ. At this point the Monitor's make for a worse value and reselling a "full" TV is going to be easier than a monitor in the future.

Thanks Russ. At this point the Monitor's make for a worse value and reselling a "full" TV is going to be easier than a monitor in the future.

It certainly seems that way.

Will you have to buy an expansion board to use HDMI on the monitors?

Apparently you didn't comprehend my post. I'll go real slow. For a person to get the kuro home, in a darkened enviroment, and, as you say, calibrated, something called, i believe it's called a "purchase" must first take place. For a "purchase" to take place at, let's say, Best Buy, the customer must look at a "wall" with mounted flat panels consisting of plasma and LCD's. Now, the average person, the person who goes by first impression because they don't understand what the specs mean, sees an endless display of bright, vibrant LCD's with a few dim, dull, and unexciting plasmas mixed in will, for the most part, turn their attention solely towards the LCD's. This means the kuro will lose another sale. Sales are what keeps companies growing. A 5010 kuro, sitting next to a Sammy 71 series LCD in Best Buy looks a hell of a lot different next to the Sammy at home. The problem is, it has to be "purchased" at the store first. I don't inderstand why it's so difficult to understand this. You have to increase the lumens to even the playing field. It has nothing to do with contrast ratio, how deep the blacks are, or how much detail you can see in those blacks, what the average customer first sees is how well it pops or jumps out at them. What catches their eye. This is where plasma fails, especially the kuros.


Excellent points. Plus Best Buy's conetent they show sucks. Every Tv gets fed the same pixelated "hd" cable mess. Wow, who cares. It is really bright contest and a dollar per square inch contest for the average casual best buyer. I would never buy a TV because of how it looked in Best buy. Sad but true.

Thanks Russ. At this point the Monitor's make for a worse value and reselling a "full" TV is going to be easier than a monitor in the future.

My thoughts exactly. I don't understand the excitement and appeal for the monitor-only units. Give me a 151 and I'm good. :cool:

My understanding is that the Elites will be out at around the same time as the non-elites. I haven't confirmed this, but it's the June window for the 111FD/151FD and the 5020FD/6020FD that has been mentioned before.

The monitors are currently set to be the same price as their elite counterparts the 151 and the 111. Just to refresh people's memory, these are the thin bezel, no stand, no speaker, no tuner displays.

Just to remind people what's been posted before:
Availability for both Elite and Non-Elite is June. Monitors have not been finalized yet.
5020FD - $4000
111FD - $5000 (price for the 50" Elite Monitor thin bezel also)
6020FD - $5500
151FD - $6500 (price for the 60" Elite Monitor thin bezel also)


Stripping out the amp, speakers, tuners etc. at the same price as the 151 forget that. That makes no sense at all. While I would prefer a monitor, I have no interest if it is the same price as the non monitor. What geniuses make these decisions?

I disagree. What Panasonic chose to use as an out-of-the-box color temp does not mean that the Kuro is better with whites.

A calibrated Kuro and a calibrated 58PX600u will have nearly equal whites.

As someone who has both, I can confirm this assertion is correct.

My understanding is that the Elites will be out at around the same time as the non-elites. I haven't confirmed this, but it's the June window for the 111FD/151FD and the 5020FD/6020FD that has been mentioned before.

The monitors are currently set to be the same price as their elite counterparts the 151 and the 111. Just to refresh people's memory, these are the thin bezel, no stand, no speaker, no tuner displays.

Just to remind people what's been posted before:
Availability for both Elite and Non-Elite is June. Monitors have not been finalized yet.
5020FD - $4000
111FD - $5000 (price for the 50" Elite Monitor thin bezel also)
6020FD - $5500
151FD - $6500 (price for the 60" Elite Monitor thin bezel also)

Thanks Russ!

Chris

Stripping out the amp, speakers, tuners etc. at the same price as the 151 forget that. That makes no sense at all. While I would prefer a monitor, I have no interest if it is the same price as the non monitor. What geniuses make these decisions?

+1 Totally absurd. :confused:

Five years ago I bought a 4333cmx monitior but it did have an amplifier and stand.It was fifty percent less than the 4330 model on sale at best buy.A great display but i would never buy just a monitor again.Dont know what Pioneer is trying to acomplish with thin bezel monitors and their pricing.

First and formost, these are not monitors like the CMX series. These are monitors like the FHD-1. They are suppose to be $500 less than the regular TV series.

I have not gotten any info on them as I have not been paying attention to them. If I get info I'll post it.

Five years ago I bought a 4333cmx monitior but it did have an amplifier and stand.It was fifty percent less than the 4330 model on sale at best buy.A great display but i would never buy just a monitor again.Dont know what Pioneer is trying to acomplish with thin bezel monitors and their pricing.

they're for commercial use. my office has a pioneer (not sure what model) as their presentation screen in one of our conference rooms. no need for tuner or speakers.

I disagree. What Panasonic chose to use as an out-of-the-box color temp does not mean that the Kuro is better with whites.

A calibrated Kuro and a calibrated 58PX600u will have nearly equal whites.


Well keep in mind that I am not an ISF calibrator so my calibration consists of user menu calibration. For one who upgrades every year it's not worth it to me to spend $300-$500/yr for calibration on something I will likely replace in 12 months time.

When I got my 6010 I set it up side by side with my 58PX600U and whites were not nearly as white as the Kuros no matter what I did (in the user menu). Even setting the Panny on the cool temp for blue whites didn't make them as white as the Kuro's whites on Med temp. Unless your speaking of service menu calibration I honestly don't understand how you point is valid.

What exactly is your definition of white? Here is the definition of white per SMPTE-C, Rec709, and PAL:


SMPTE-C:
--------------x-------y-------Y
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0

Rec709:
--------------x-------y-------Y
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0

PAL
PAL----------x-------y-------Y
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0


Now here are the stadardized peak light output numbers for each technology:


CRT tubes: 30-40 fL
Plasma: 30-40 fL
LCD flat panel: 50-60 fL
Digital rear projection: 30-40 fL
Digital front projection: 12-16 fL



Now, if your definition of white and/or brightness levels are outside of those parameters, you prefer a white and/or brightness that goes against the content standards.

D-nice,

I'm not going to debate nor will I question you technical knowledge. I'm sure you know what you speak of and I believe your points. I'm solely using my eyes as my deciding factor.

Maybe it's not the actual purity of whites that I'm complaining about but rather the intensity in the whites. However if there's a large amount of whites on the screen doesn't plasma dim the picture due to power limitations?

According to the measurements you provided a plasma capable of displaying 40fL can output 33% more light than one at 30fL. With that being the case, wouldn't you agree that a display that can output 40fL is capable of whiter whites than one that can only output 30fL(or should I say brighter whites)? What comes to my mind is how much brighter the 4280 is over the 6010.

All too often I find the picture on my 6010 just too dark. I do understand that the quality of content is partially to blame. However, the fact is that there is a LOT of content that that is filmed too dark. Like I said before if the Kuro's had some added brightness it would be of value to the overall picture (at least IMO). If my 6010 had the brightness of a 4280 I probably wouldn't be complaining as much.

D-nice,

I'm not going to debate nor will I question you technical knowledge. I'm sure you know what you speak of and I believe your points. I'm solely using my eyes as my deciding factor.

Maybe it's not the actual purity of whites that I'm complaining about but rather the intensity in the whites. However if there's a large amount of whites on the screen doesn't plasma dim the picture due to power limitations?

According to the measurements you provided a plasma capable of displaying 40fL can output 33% more light than one at 30fL. With that being the case, wouldn't you agree that a display that can output 40fL is capable of whiter whites than one that can only output 30fL(or should I say brighter whites)? What comes to my mind is how much brighter the 4280 is over the 6010.

All too often I find the picture on my 6010 just too dark. I do understand that the quality of content is partially to blame. However, the fact is that there is a LOT of content that that is filmed too dark. Like I said before if the Kuro's had some added brightness it would be of value to the overall picture (at least IMO). If my 6010 had the brightness of a 4280 I probably wouldn't be complaining as much.With what you just said, you prefer brighter whites. That by no means is a whiter white (as you said).

Also there is zero difference in peak brightness between the 4280 and 6010. I think what you are seeing is a placebo effect caused by the size of your panel.

Well keep in mind that I am not an ISF calibrator so my calibration consists of user menu calibration. For one who upgrades every year it's not worth it to me to spend $300-$500/yr for calibration on something I will likely replace in 12 months time.

When I got my 6010 I set it up side by side with my 58PX600U and whites were not nearly as white as the Kuros no matter what I did (in the user menu). Even setting the Panny on the cool temp for blue whites didn't make them as white as the Kuro's whites on Med temp. Unless your speaking of service menu calibration I honestly don't understand how you point is valid.Gotcha. Yes I'm speaking of full calibration....which means SM access on the PX600u.

As D-Nice pointed out, the monitor model is not a commercial model it's a consumer model with a thin bezel. So it will have HDMI, etc, but with a thin bezel. Some people want the thin bezel and that's the value. It's a sleeker cleaner look, especially for people who don't want speakers. Also, some people think things like tuners, amps, speakers, etc actually can impact the picture quality because of the extra circuitry.

It's kinda like a coupe when it comes to buying a car. Even though it has 2 less doors, they costs the same if not more, because it's a different styling. Hopefully, D-Nice is right and it's $500 less, but at this point, I understand them to be the same price currently.

Russ

As D-Nice pointed out, the monitor model is not a commercial model it's a consumer model with a thin bezel. So it will have HDMI, etc, but with a thin bezel. Some people want the thin bezel and that's the value. It's a sleeker cleaner look, especially for people who don't want speakers. Also, some people think things like tuners, amps, speakers, etc actually can impact the picture quality because of the extra circuitry.

It's kinda like a coupe when it comes to buying a car. Even though it has 2 less doors, they costs the same if not more, because it's a different styling. Hopefully, D-Nice is right and it's $500 less, but at this point, I understand them to be the same price currently.

Russ

Well:

1. Don't need Tuner
2. Don't need speaker
3. Do want thinner bezel
4. Do appreciate a smaller box in the garage. :)

But... PLEASE... the lack of a stand hurts! You gotta offer the stand!

Nambit, stands are optionally available for the Elite monitors.

Russ, I've been told no exact prices are set as of now, but expect the monitors to be a little less than the integrated TV's.

Pioneer is expected to release their new model press releases the first week of May so we'll see soon enough.

-Robert

Well:

1. Don't need Tuner
2. Don't need speaker
3. Do want thinner bezel
4. Do appreciate a smaller box in the garage. :)

But... PLEASE... the lack of a stand hurts! You gotta offer the stand!

Yep, this is definitely me! Guess I will just spring for the stand and be one happy camper :)

John

Would these monitors have more "tweakability" than the Elite TVs( more gamma, color controls etc.)?

Would these monitors have more "tweakability" than the Elite TVs( more gamma, color controls etc.)?

Man, this display will be like a FHD1 on steroids! I can easily see why Pioneer is going this route as I think there is a huge market for professional applications, as well as HT installers, and just a lot of folks (especially AVS'ers) that participate in a DIY HT.

Nambit, stands are optionally available for the Elite monitors.

-Robert

Yeah, but I guess it'll cost me quite a bit if I need one. Perhaps more than what a normal 151 would. Hmm...

(Just saw "Shoot Em Up" on my 150FD... damn that's one gritty movie... but looked amazing on the set -- Oh, and filmed in Toronto I see!)

...With what you just said, you prefer brighter whites. That by no means is a whiter white (as you said)..

I will agree with this (except when there is a mostly all white screen).

...Also there is zero difference in peak brightness between the 4280 and 6010. I think what you are seeing is a placebo effect caused by the size of your panel.

All I know is that in the store the 4280 is brighter than the 5010, which is also brighter than the 6010.

Yeah, but I guess it'll cost me quite a bit if I need one. Perhaps more than what a normal 151 would. Hmm...

(Just saw "Shoot Em Up" on my 150FD... damn that's one gritty movie... but looked amazing on the set -- Oh, and filmed in Toronto I see!)

I'd go for one of those after-market motorized versions. Nice addition to the display.

D-Nice I know this isn't a completely 9G related question, but at this May conference where this upcoming info will be released. Will Pioneer also be releasing info on the upcoming Blue-Ray Players and the new Recievers?

D-Nice I know this isn't a completely 9G related question, but at this May conference where this upcoming info will be released. Will Pioneer also be releasing info on the upcoming Blue-Ray Players and the new Recievers?Yes. The May "conference" is suppose to be about everything 2008.

CRT tubes: 30-40 fL
Plasma: 30-40 fL
LCD flat panel: 50-60 fL
Digital rear projection: 30-40 fL
Digital front projection: 12-16 fL



While waiting for the Pioneer Elite 151 I've been toying with the idea of a FP, perhaps the Sony Black Pearl. But, the demos I've seen of FP, while big, have never really impressed me. The picture simply doesn't have the pop I see with the other technologies. Even in the dark the image is dim looking to my eyes. The black simply doesn't look as black as it does on the Elite 150, even though the Sony has a similar black level. While I haven't seen this, I wonder how a good FP would compare to the Elite if it only projected a 60" image?

Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, is this because of the difference in light output? I thought that perhaps FP needed optimal conditions to really shine and maybe I'd never seen those conditions. Then I see these numbers. Does this explain why LCD is so popular at the big stores, it's simply brighter than everything else? Does it mean that, under optimal conditions, a FP only projecting a 60" image could still never match the Elite 150 plasma?

Why aren't these out now?! My cat just killed the power supply on my XBR960 (with a well placed hairball and liquid dripping down the air vents in just the right location to kill it.)

So now I have no TV, and these damanable Kuros are 35-70 days away from shipping! The gods must be crazy.

D-Nice I know this isn't a completely 9G related question, but at this May conference where this upcoming info will be released. Will Pioneer also be releasing info on the upcoming Blue-Ray Players and the new Recievers?

Permit me to answer. Yes, along with several new Elite speaker lines, including premium in-wall/ceiling speakers.

-Robert

Nambit, stands are optionally available for the Elite monitors.

Russ, I've been told no exact prices are set as of now, but expect the monitors to be a little less than the integrated TV's.

Pioneer is expected to release their new model press releases the first week of May so we'll see soon enough.

-Robert

So there will be no stand included with the pro-151fd??
What about the 6020??
What is the normal price range for a stand for an elite??

No, Chad. They're talking about the monitor with the thin bezel, not the 151 or 6020.

No, Chad. They're talking about the monitor with the thin bezel, not the 151 or 6020.

Oh ok , So they are talking about the monitor only models then. I guess it pays to read the whole conversation.lol
whew,got a little worried there that I would have to pay extra for a stand for my new pro-151fd when I get it.
Thanks!

Oh ok , So they are talking about the monitor only models then. I guess it pays to read the whole conversation.lol
whew,got a little worried there that I would have to pay extra for a stand for my new pro-151fd when I get it.
Thanks!

You should be more worried about getting it in one piece! ;)

The Gods, keep praying to the Gods...

You should be more worried about getting it in one piece! ;)

The Gods, keep praying to the Gods...

I think he'll have to sacrifice his Phillips to appease the gods.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/bowdown.gif

I think he'll have to sacrifice his Phillips to appease the gods.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/bowdown.gif

after using this phillips for a month or two more i might be ready to beat it with a sledge hammer and sacrifice it to the kuro gods.
And don't worry, I will not be ordering from Amazon again thats for sure. lol

No, Chad. They're talking about the monitor with the thin bezel, not the 151 or 6020.

What is the model number for the "monitor only thin bezel"? I thought I read it being referred to here as the 111FD. If that is the Elite, then is there another model designation for the monitor only? Thanks.

John

update: ok, re-read this thread, no model numbers listed yet for the monitor only correct?

Quick question. I am a novice on this site, but admire everyone's enthusiasm and knowledge of the Kuro products. I had a quick question (related to my lack of familiarity with Pio's production releases). The pioneer press release about the 9Gs is from their European website. Can we safely conclude that the 9Gs will be released in the US at around the same time? Has Pioneer explicitly said that the 111s and 151s will be in the US by July? Or are we relying on the members of this board for this information? Thanks.

I think he'll have to sacrifice his Phillips to appease the gods.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/bowdown.gif

doesn't he have 90 days to return it to walmart??:o

Which sponsor will offer best deal on 60 inch set?

doesn't he have 90 days to return it to walmart??:o

Sure do.:)
Still have two months and 2 weeks until the 90 days is up.
Hopefully the 9th gens will be out by then.
A lady at work will more than likely buy it then.
But if for some reason she changes her mind I will just take it back to walmart.
I hate to return another set though, thats why I am trying to sell it instead.
I know its frowned upon and thought of as "unethical" by alot of peole but I have no problem "borrowing" a TV from Walmart.

Which sponsor will offer best deal on 60 inch set?

good question. Whichever one does will get my buisness.

kind of a random question, but i don't want to make a new thread and it pertains to the Kuro i'm getting.

what's the protocol on TV delivery? You're allowed to unbox and plug in the display to make sure everything is working alright with no dead pixels before you sign and the delivery guy leaves correct? that must take at least 15-20 minutes - are they OK with that?

Which sponsor will offer best deal on 60 inch set?
The one with the cheapest price I suppose. :)

(okay, I kid... but does anyone remember when Pioneer was offering a free Plasma
with the purchase of an elite or something?)

(okay, I kid... but does anyone remember when Pioneer was offering a free Plasma
with the purchase of an elite or something?)

Yep, they were offering a free 5016 with every FH-1. I remember it because that was when it hit me just how much margin Pioneer builds into their sales.

kind of a random question, but i don't want to make a new thread and it pertains to the Kuro i'm getting.

what's the protocol on TV delivery? You're allowed to unbox and plug in the display to make sure everything is working alright with no dead pixels before you sign and the delivery guy leaves correct? that must take at least 15-20 minutes - are they OK with that?
make sure you check that the TV powers up at least. Most will let you do this. I bought 2 6010's from amazon and both were dead (no signal, loud ear peircing buzz) if I would not have checked to see if they powered up, I would have had to go thru the long drawn out process of having pioneer come look at the TV just to tell me it will have to be replaced and then wait for a new one to be delived. If the TV does not power up then simply refuse delivery and have them send you another one. Its alot quiker. I would recommend one of the forum sponsors. They ship TV's regularly and know how to do it right unlike amazons carrier (ceva or eagle). At least that was my experience. Alot of vendors have a checklist for you to check off during delivery that has you verify sound, the remote works, the TV powers on, etc.
If the vendor does no offer this then ask about "white glove" delivery. It may cost a liittle more but with the luck I have it makes sense.

thanks for the help!

i was planning on ordering from a sponser, so it's good to know they take care with that.

thanks for the help!

i was planning on ordering from a sponser, so it's good to know they take care with that.

After receiving a crooked LCD, only will go for white glove my self and whoever sponsor offer me that @best $$ will get my business!

With regard to Pioneer marketing, I just don't understand what's so tough about getting people to look at black levels, shadow detail, and blurring when pricing a Pioneer set against competing LCD sets. It seems a simple message that any marketing guru ought to be able to illustrate in a way that consumers can understand and appreciate.

Hey, if Joe Public can be convinced that he should pay extra so his 42" can have 1080 horizontal lines, then it should be chicken feed to get him to look at things that have a real impact on picture quality, other than dazzling brightness.

Something to read:

http://files.pioneer.eu/files/brochures/2008/H_Preview/08_H_PREVIEW_EN.pdf

Something to read:

http://files.pioneer.eu/files/brochures/2008/H_Preview/08_H_PREVIEW_EN.pdf

...I said, "Joe Public", not "Derek Zoolander".:D Derek's an easy sale, you just show your product in black and white, next to a bulimic woman in an evening gown, emerging from an infinity pool...done deal.

man, that's great eye candy. wish it was a US brochure.

...I said, "Joe Public", not "Derek Zoolander".:D Derek's an easy sale, you just show your product in black and white, next to a bulimic woman in an evening gown, emerging from an infinity pool...done deal.

eeehhh it is 60 inches of enjoyment
from corner to corner too :D

That's a beautiful brochure! Am I getting old - or is that print really hard to read? I was very surprised to see they're coming out with new HD-DVD players. I wonder if that's just Europe. Thanks enator!

they're not HD-DVD players. they upconvert DVD's to HD quality (1080p). or maybe you're mistaking "HDD" - hard disk drive.

That's a beautiful brochure! Am I getting old - or is that print really hard to read? I was very surprised to see they're coming out with new HD-DVD players. I wonder if that's just Europe. Thanks enator!

Dont feel bad I had to zoom 200% to see myself

That's a beautiful brochure! Am I getting old - or is that print really hard to read? I was very surprised to see they're coming out with new HD-DVD players. I wonder if that's just Europe. Thanks enator!

Don't worry I have problem to read them too ;)

eeehhh it is 60 inches of enjoyment
from corner to corner too :D

The bulimic or the tv?

Not HD-DVD players, HDD/DVD recorder. (Hard Disk Drive)

Something to read:

http://files.pioneer.eu/files/brochures/2008/H_Preview/08_H_PREVIEW_EN.pdf


Nice find, thanks. Bezel looks similar to the 8G. I would have preferred thinner and not glossy.

Not HD-DVD players, HDD/DVD recorder. (Hard Disk Drive)

Oooooh. Thanks for the clarification.

Bezel looks similar to the 8G. I would have preferred thinner and not glossy.

i kinda like the bezel. makes it look like a TV and not a monitor.

I just think Pioneer is failing at marketing to segments other than the "Derek Zoolander" crowd...sure, there's a price premium to their sets, but not all of them are Ferraris, if you get my meaning. They need to cater to the middle class consumer who's willing to pay slightly better than Panny prices for a better picture. I believe that there's enough people out there willing to do so...but the advertising either doesn't exist, or places the tv in the realm of an exotic car. Simple consumer education, imho, is what brings the Joe Public consumer to consider their product as being something other than, "same thing, costs more". Brochures like the one posted above are good enough to cater to the elitist (npi), but they ought to do more to bring their advertising down to earth.

i kinda like the bezel. makes it look like a TV and not a monitor.

I realize it is a personal preference. In my case, it would be nice to come closer to matching the 44.5" width of my existing stand. The 8g 50" is 48.2" wide, which isn't too bad. But beyond that I feel that thinner looks higher-tech, cleaner, more modern; and since the finish is unfortunately glossy, thinner would mean that much less distracting reflections.

to each their own. i believe these tv's are made to be viewed in low light to no light, which would make reflections a non-issue anyway.

DNICE,

Can you give some more info on this "Kuro Link" in the US?

It looks as if its a separate media box now. Is it just a server and what about compatibility and/or associations with apple, blockbuster or netflix ?

Paul

I know everyone is looking for formal information other then the bits and pieces some people have provided so I thought I'd just confirm the date and location of the formal announcements. I believe Robert had mentioned the dates as well and that he was going to be there.

I have access to the show, but not sure I can make it, but will try. I'm a little bummed, kinda wanted to go. We'll hopefully my plans can change. Anyways, I'm sure as the information comes out, it will be shared here as quickly as possible.

I'm sure for a lot, it's a long 21 days and counting....

Correction - 13th to the 15th.

With the bulk of the info coming on the 14th and 15th.

Tuesday the 13th is just checkin, reception, and dinner...

I know everyone is looking for formal information other then the bits and pieces some people have provided so I thought I'd just confirm the date and location of the formal announcements. I believe Robert had mentioned the dates as well and that he was going to be there.

I have access to the show, but not sure I can make it, but will try. I'm a little bummed, kinda wanted to go. We'll hopefully my plans can change. Anyways, I'm sure as the information comes out, it will be shared here as quickly as possible.

I'm sure for a lot, it's a long 21 days and counting....

Correction - 13th to the 15th.

Actually, we'll find out much of the basic information even sooner, as Pioneer will have several press releases the week of 5/5/08.

-Robert

Actually, we'll find out much of the basic information even sooner, as Pioneer will have several press releases the week of 5/5/08.

-Robert

You can spill the beans now if you want Robert, we won't tell.http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/drool.gifhttp://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/hyper.gif

God I want one so badly... by the way a question for anyone in the know are the 9g elite and none elites using the same glass this year around?.. the reason I ask is because according to that EU brocheur both models now have direct color filter 3+ something only the high end 8g model had last year and it seemed to be the primary difference as they list it right in the main product discription...
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/62/63/413/overview.html?__Q1080P=1
ie: "60-inch 'HD Ready 1080p' KURO with Direct Colour Filter 3+ " vs "60-inch 'HD Ready 1080p' KURO"
But then again I might just be extremely confused...

PS: This is what the color filter apperently does...

Version 3
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/62/63/tech/PlasmaTV/DIRECT_COLOUR_FILTER_3.html

vs

Version 3+
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/62/63/tech/PlasmaTV/DIRECT_COLOUR_FILTER_3PLUS.html

Interesting how the brochure mentioned the 9mm panel. In fact, it goes further
to mention a 60 inch model and provide an abstract drawing of them.

alkrio, thanks for those links regarding Color Filter 3. Viewing PDP's in a brightlit room has been the one of the main gripes of the LCD crowd, and would be interested to learn more about it. For instance, is this filter detachable for night time viewing?

Of course not, it's part of the glass so to say. Why would you want to detach it anyway?

Of course not, it's part of the glass so to say. Why would you want to detach it anyway?

Lots of reasons in regards to PQ. Why do you need a filter for night time viewing that was designed for bright room daytime viewing?? This idea of using "filters" over the front screen of displays is not new. Several mfg'ers used it over RPTV screens for the same reason, and many people removed this filter to achieve a better PQ, which worked BTW. Perhaps, the 2008 version of the filter will be much improved, but that's a big question that has not been answered.

Interesting how the brochure mentioned the 9mm panel. In fact, it goes further
to mention a 60 inch model and provide an abstract drawing of them.You mean 94mm as that's the depth of the 5020/6020/111/151.

You mean 94mm as that's the depth of the 5020/6020/111/151.

If I could ever find a giant embarrassed smiley, I would. Still, that's pretty good! :)

If I could ever find a giant embarrassed smiley, I would. Still, that's pretty good! :)

I wouldn't worry about being embarrassed. Afterall, at CES 2008 the Pioneer 10G shown is supposed to be 9mm, w/ECC & 10 lumen tech. More first prizes for Pioneer!

Anyone notice only 3 HDMI inputs?

Anyone notice only 3 HDMI inputs?

Yep it is for EU.

even though it's 4 (i believe) who needs more than that anyway? i would wager anyone who has a Kuro also has a nice receiver and probably only runs one or two cables out - non issue IMO.

Stand and speakers optional but very cool that speakers include the option of a side mount or a bottom mount set up.
Wonder if they will do the same for the US panels?

It would appear that Pioneer is sold out of all plasma inventory and what's in the channel is what's left until the new releases.

I've also heard conflicting information that the Elites will be Aug - Sep still... so I guess we'll have to see...

Russ

even though it's 4 (i believe) who needs more than that anyway? i would wager anyone who has a Kuro also has a nice receiver and probably only runs one or two cables out - non issue IMO.

Since not all receivers switch (or at least some in the last couple years) I think it is an issue. Not everyone wants to always turn on their receiver to watch TV or even have the capability to run it to a receiver, or even have a receiver. Lots of variables to assume everyone who has a Kuro has a nice receiver.

even though it's 4 (i believe) who needs more than that anyway? i would wager anyone who has a Kuro also has a nice receiver and probably only runs one or two cables out - non issue IMO.

A non-issue but a downgraded feature if it were to happen in the U.S.

I am curious to see if the 9G's will have a 2 way cable card slot like this year's higher model Panasonics are supposed to have.

I wouldn't worry about being embarrassed. Afterall, at CES 2008 the Pioneer 10G shown is supposed to be 9mm, w/ECC & 10 lumen tech. More first prizes for Pioneer!

I believe D-Nice stated the the 10G would be 5 Lumen tech. Is that correct?

- Rich

I believe D-Nice stated the the 10G would be 5 Lumen tech. Is that correct?

- RichYep. Just don't expect to see 10G Pioneers in June 2009. They will be a couple of months late.

i don't believe that anyone in this thread who does not own a Kuro could wait 15 months for a 10G. 9G it is for me, for sure.

Stand and speakers optional but very cool that speakers include the option of a side mount or a bottom mount set up.
Wonder if they will do the same for the US panels?The US TV versions will not have these options as the stand and speakers are included with the panel. One could always purchase an EU stand or speakers for their US Kuro.

Yep. Just don't expect to see 10G Pioneers in June 2009. They will be a couple of months late.So are you saying that it may come with the elites or later models??

You mean 94mm as that's the depth of the 5020/6020/111/151.

Wow .... that means the 10G 9mm models will be less than one-tenth as thick as that picture on page 17 of the brochure. That drives home to me just how thin that really is. Not to quote Vizzini, but ... inconceivable!

CRT tubes: 30-40 fL
Plasma: 30-40 fL
LCD flat panel: 50-60 fL
Digital rear projection: 30-40 fL
Digital front projection: 12-16 fL



While waiting for the Pioneer Elite 151 I've been toying with the idea of a FP, perhaps the Sony Black Pearl. But, the demos I've seen of FP, while big, have never really impressed me. The picture simply doesn't have the pop I see with the other technologies. Even in the dark the image is dim looking to my eyes. The black simply doesn't look as black as it does on the Elite 150, even though the Sony has a similar black level. While I haven't seen this, I wonder how a good FP would compare to the Elite if it only projected a 60" image?

Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, is this because of the difference in light output? I thought that perhaps FP needed optimal conditions to really shine and maybe I'd never seen those conditions. Then I see these numbers. Does this explain why LCD is so popular at the big stores, it's simply brighter than everything else? Does it mean that, under optimal conditions, a FP only projecting a 60" image could still never match the Elite 150 plasma?

Yes. LCDs torch-mode brightness drives a lot of sales in big stores. You definitely need to visit the $3k+ FP forum. Depending on your price range, there are other options that offer brighter, punchier, more plasma-like images. There are a lot of factors involved with front projectors (projector, screen material, screen size, room specs, etc.) I have seen 3-chip DLP projectors that look amazingly bright with plasma-like pop at 110" sizes. I have no idea what a 3-chip DLP would look like on a 60" screen, but I imagine it would be blindingly bright.

That being said, I could be wrong, but I don't think there will be anything even close to the 9G pioneers for black level and contrast ... especially ANSI contrast. And that includes both flat panel LCDs and Front projectors (LCOS or DLP). At 60" you are probably better off going with the Pioneer. Front projectors are great for large screens greater than 80" and great at approximating the look and feel of a movie theater that can only be achieved with a projected image.

i don't believe that anyone in this thread who does not own a Kuro could wait 15 months for a 10G. 9G it is for me, for sure.


:eek: Now don't be issuing challenges. I'm trying to stay focused here!

i don't believe that anyone in this thread who does not own a Kuro could wait 15 months for a 10G. 9G it is for me, for sure.

You got that right! I tried stuffing myself in a refrigerator last night to cryogenically freeze myself, but it didn't work out................fridge too small!

Plus I don't have anyone to wake me up in 3 months when the Elites get here..............

Oh well, I guess deep meditation and lots of beer will suffice.

:eek: Now don't be issuing challenges. I'm trying to stay focused here!

Go for it Vashti. I have all the confidence in the world that you can hold out that long.

David Blaine; eat your heart out!:)

So are you saying that it may come with the elites or later models??Huh? No. I'm saying that you won't see 10G Kuros in June. You will see them in July or August.

Wow .... that means the 10G 9mm models will be less than one-tenth as thick as that picture on page 17 of the brochure. That drives home to me just how thin that really is. Not to quote Vizzini, but ... inconceivable!
The 9mm concept model that was shown at CES 2008 was 10 lumen tech. It will NOT be in the 2009 lineup......specifically due to the termination of in-house PDP production (would have been intro'ed very late in the year). You won't see 9mm thick panels until 2010.

So, when 2013 rolls around, do you think we'll be able to buy a 65" 9mm ECC Pioneer for prices that are better than today's prices for 60" panels?:D:eek:

yes

Huh? No. I'm saying that you won't see 10G Kuros in June. You will see them in July or August.
And to intercept the next question, I'm pretty sure D-Nice means June/July/August of 2009 for the 10G's. 10G's will NOT be out this year...

i don't believe that anyone in this thread who does not own a Kuro could wait 15 months for a 10G. 9G it is for me, for sure.
I actually may be up for that challenge. I currently have a 65" Mits RPTV and want to upgrade it, but am having trouble with the idea of upgrading to a smaller screen especially when the screen will end up being a little further away from my seat (I currently sit about 10 feet from the screen). It will be a bit further away because I'll be able to push everything back closer to the wall without a huge RPTV in the mix.

So that means that I either wait for a larger 10G panel, "settle on" a 60" 9G, or go with another option such as a 65" Panasonic plasma or a DLP RPTV. I'm really torn on what to do. I'm inclined to think that my best option is to wait and live with what I have for another year.

The 9mm concept model that was shown at CES 2008 was 10 lumen tech. It will NOT be in the 2009 lineup......specifically due to the termination of in-house PDP production (would have been intro'ed very late in the year). You won't see 9mm thick panels until 2010.

So that 9mm PDP would be a 10.5G!!:D

Do you have any info on the Color Filter 3 for the 9G?

So that 9mm PDP would be a 10.5G!!:D

... or maybe just an 11G.

Ok so I am wondering when the Pro-151fd will be availible.
I have heard October
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13576627#post13576627

And I have also heard June.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13680850#post13680850

Does anyone know for sure?
Thanks,
Chadmak09

Ok so I am wondering when the Pro-151fd will be availible.
I have heard October
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13576627#post13576627

And I have also heard June.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13680850#post13680850

Does anyone know for sure?
Thanks,
Chadmak09

Not to derail here, but I read your post earlier regarding you are an engineer with GE.

Why is it that GE or any other american mf with all its resources compete with this technology? What are we software jailed?

I remember zenith as the last us mf to fall. Any insight?

Paul

:eek: Now don't be issuing challenges. I'm trying to stay focused here!

Vashti, if anyone can hold out for another 15 months it's you! ;)

I actually may be up for that challenge. I currently have a 65" Mits RPTV and want to upgrade it, but am having trouble with the idea of upgrading to a smaller screen especially when the screen will end up being a little further away from my seat (I currently sit about 10 feet from the screen). It will be a bit further away because I'll be able to push everything back closer to the wall without a huge RPTV in the mix.

So that means that I either wait for a larger 10G panel, "settle on" a 60" 9G, or go with another option such as a 65" Panasonic plasma or a DLP RPTV. I'm really torn on what to do. I'm inclined to think that my best option is to wait and live with what I have for another year.

in that case i'd just get a projector and screen. Kuro. ;)

Well, i hope pioneer narrows their gap with panasonic on price factor!

Not to derail here, but I read your post earlier regarding you are an engineer with GE.

Why is it that GE or any other american mf with all its resources compete with this technology? What are we software jailed?

I remember zenith as the last us mf to fall. Any insight?

Paul

No clue,
We build just about everything and do pretty well with what we build.
Wish we still were making televisions. I work in embedded computers right now. G.E. has some great manufacturing theorys and practices that it uses like six sigma and lean manufacturing. I think if we did get into televisions we should do pretty good. I am not sure why G.E. stopped making televisions. But I remember the old G.E. televsions., Actually they were some of the first I think.
I actually asked myself the same question the other day. I was watching the movie "the matrix" and I noticed the old General electric television that Morpheous and neo were watching when morpheous took neo into the matrix and he was sitting in a totally white room on a leather chair.

I think the reason that GE and other very large corporations don't get into the display game is that it is way too risky. Just look at the dog-eat-dog CE marketplace, and take examples of other large Asian companies that have lost bigtime money on this venture. Even when a US company comes up w/a few nifty patents, they would rather sell it off to foreign corporations to take the tremendous risks in capital investment to see it through. Not a good roll of the dice, especially where labor costs alone could eat up all the profits.

No clue,
We build just about everything and do pretty well with what we build.
Wish we still were making televisions. I work in embedded computers right now. G.E. has some great manufacturing theorys and practices that it uses like six sigma and lean manufacturing. I think if we did get into televisions we should do pretty good. I am not sure why G.E. stopped making televisions. But I remember the old G.E. televsions., Actually they were some of the first I think.
I actually asked myself the same question the other day. I was watching the movie "the matrix" and I noticed the old General electric television that Morpheous and neo were watching when morpheous took neo into the matrix and he was sitting in a totally white room on a leather chair.

Now they let foreign companies use the brand to build cheap phones and other cheap CE gear.

in that case i'd just get a projector and screen. Kuro. ;)
Not an option in my case. There's too much ambient light in the room too much of the time. It's not my house, and my landlord (aka my brother) would not be keen on the idea of mounting a projector to the ceiling. The vaulted ceiling in the room would also be a nightmare for mounting a projector. Running cables would be another fun adventure.

Projectors are great when the situation allows for it, but they aren't exactly a perfect solution for the vast majority of people.

The only possible option that I didn't list was to wait for whatever the next new technology is to mature.

Ok so I am wondering when the Pro-151fd will be availible.
I have heard October
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13576627#post13576627

And I have also heard June.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13680850#post13680850

Does anyone know for sure?
Thanks,
Chadmak09

Thanks for including me in one of your two post links. I must say I was wrong. For the first time Pioneer will be breaking tradition in two ways.

First by releasing 50" and 60"sizes simultaneously with the first production. And second by launching Elite models at the same time with non-Elite models.

50" and 60" Elite and 60" non-Elite models will be more limited, but all three models will be available at launch. Launch is scheduled for the last week of June and will reach most distribution channels in early July.

Q3-4 '08 we'll begin to see the next Elite slim monitors Elite in 50" an d60" sizes.

Sorry for the incorrect information. This is a very fluid issue, which has now become clearer.

-Robert

The only possible option that I didn't list was to wait for whatever the next new technology is to mature.

You may have a very long wait... The next new technology that's even on the distant horizon is OLED, and if...and I mean a BIG "IF" OLED can solve its video tech problems in the next few years, it will be a number of years after that period before you would see a large OLED display over 60". This is a BEST case scenario.

All the while, Plasma & LCD video tech will be progressing even more, and I would much rather buy a tried true & blue reliable video tech display that's a proven performer, than risk my money being an Early Adopter of OLED. JMHO.

Thanks for including me in one of your two post links. I must say I was wrong. For the first time Pioneer will be breaking tradition in two ways.

First by releasing 50" and 60"sizes simultaneously with the first production. And second by launching Elite models at the same time with non-Elite models.

50" and 60" Elite and 60" non-Elite models will be more limited, but all three models will be available at launch. Launch is scheduled for the last week of June and will reach most distribution channels in early July.

Q3-4 '08 we'll begin to see the next Elite slim monitors Elite in 50" an d60" sizes.

Sorry for the incorrect information. This is a very fluid issue, which has now become clearer.

-RobertRobert is correct on these things being very fluid.

For instance I still have not received a reconfirmation that the 9Gs will have tru2way capability. I know optivity is still waiting on this information....I haven't forgotten about you good ol' sparing buddy.

You may have a very long wait... The next new technology that's even on the distant horizon is OLED, and if...and I mean a BIG "IF" OLED can solve its video tech problems in the next few years, it will be a number of years after that period before you would see a large OLED display over 60". This is a BEST case scenario.

All the while, Plasma & LCD video tech will be progressing even more, and I would much rather buy a tried true & blue reliable video tech display that's a proven performer, than risk my money being an Early Adopter of OLED. JMHO.
No, I won't have a very long wait as waiting for the next thing is only 1 of many options I have. Besides, I do currently have a HDTV that works, so waiting isn't exactly the end of the world... It's very likely that I will go with 1 of these 3 options:

1) 60" 9G Elite Kuro.
2) 65" or larger 10G Elite Kuro.
3) 65" or larger DLP RPTV.

At this point, 1 is the seems to be the least likely option for me. Option 3 might actually make the most sense as even with the potential geometry problems with the DLP sets, they are extremely affordable, would be a big upgrade in many ways over what I have now, and would hold me over for a long while until things hopefully settle down more.

Thanks for including me in one of your two post links. I must say I was wrong. For the first time Pioneer will be breaking tradition in two ways.

First by releasing 50" and 60"sizes simultaneously with the first production. And second by launching Elite models at the same time with non-Elite models.

50" and 60" Elite and 60" non-Elite models will be more limited, but all three models will be available at launch. Launch is scheduled for the last week of June and will reach most distribution channels in early July.

Q3-4 '08 we'll begin to see the next Elite slim monitors Elite in 50" an d60" sizes.

Sorry for the incorrect information. This is a very fluid issue, which has now become clearer.

-Robert

So around September to October for the slim bezel monitors?

John

No, I won't have a very long wait as waiting for the next thing is only 1 of many options I have. Besides, I do currently have a HDTV that works, so waiting isn't exactly the end of the world... It's very likely that I will go with 1 of these 3 options:

1) 60" 9G Elite Kuro.
2) 65" or larger 10G Elite Kuro.
3) 65" or larger DLP RPTV.

At this point, 1 is the seems to be the least likely option for me. Option 3 might actually make the most sense as even with the potential geometry problems with the DLP sets, they are extremely affordable, would be a big upgrade in many ways over what I have now, and would hold me over for a long while until things hopefully settle down more.

Yes, but none of your choices are "the next new video technology". I'm more inclined to think that Pioneer will be coming out w/a 70+" display in the 10G or 11G series, but who knows...I can easily see why you do not want to go down in screen size.

The battle this year will come down to the 9th Gen Elites, XBR8 and LaserTV. It should be good competition. It's my hope that respected mags can do testing sooner than waiting 6+months after release.

Yes, but none of your choices are "the next new video technology". I'm more inclined to think that Pioneer will be coming out w/a 70+" display in the 10G or 11G series, but who knows...I can easily see why you do not want to go down in screen size.
Good grief, "next new technology" would be option 4 AND unlikely, but still an option... The rumor mill has been saying that Pioneer will come out with a 70" display for 10G, but the big unknown is how much it will cost.

Yes, I too am looking forward to this LaserVUE tv from Mitsubishi.http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/04/lasertvmitsu.jpg I just might be a Kuro killer. I've read speculation that they'll have 65 inch from around $3 to $5K. I think these tv's will be quite competitive with the KURO's.

So around September to October for the slim bezel monitors?

John

Yes, and they will be thinner, lower profile.

-Robert

:eek: Now don't be issuing challenges. I'm trying to stay focused here!

Buy the 9G. I think I've made up my mind and would prefer the Pioneer glass
with 9G technology, hence the Pro-151 for me. If I go 10G (for my bedroom)
it will only be 50 inches, as I've learned the bedroom is the only place where
I truly would notice the absolute black.

I don't know if you've seen a Pro-150FD in action, but it's damned amazing,
so if the 151 has 80% of the blacks, but with added luminance and a more
up to date colour filter or whatever, then it's going to be so amazing. :)

Yes i am looking forward to this LaserVUE tv from Mitsubishi. I just might be a Kuro killer. I've read speculation that they'll have 65 inch from around $3 to $5K. I think these tv's will be quite competitive with the KURO's.

Dunno about Kuro killer, but I think rear-projection TVs should be scared. I
do wonder, though, if this is one of the reasons why Pioneer is now releasing
their Elites and 60 inches at launch. Whatever the case, I thought 2007 would
be the killer year, but 2008 looks interesting.

Yes, and they will be thinner, lower profile.

-Robert

So, I understand this correctly. Pioneer Elite will have a 50" and 60" regular model and a 50" and 60" lower, thin profile? 4 models for Elite?

Thanks

Yes, and they will be thinner, lower profile.

-Robert

Thanks Robert, exactly what I want. Now all I have to do is be patient until then :)

John
ps: would I be correct these elite monitors will have 1 to 1 pixel mapping also?

Robert is correct on these things being very fluid.

For instance I still have not received a reconfirmation that the 9Gs will have tru2way capability.

Maybe I haven't been following close enough but I didn't know this was even possibly a feature of the 9G. If this is the case then I KNOW I'll be waiting on these instead of going for the Panny set this year!

Robert is correct on these things being very fluid.

For instance I still have not received a reconfirmation that the 9Gs will have tru2way capability. I know optivity is still waiting on this information....I haven't forgotten about you good ol' sparing buddy.

Sorry if this is a dumb question but what is true2way?

it's refferring to cable cards having 2 way bi-directional communication and the displays with cablecards that meet that requirement.

it's refferring to cable cards having 2 way bi-directional communication and the displays with cablecards that meet that requirement.

Awesome! THANKS!

50" and 60" Elite and 60" non-Elite models will be more limited, but all three models will be available at launch. Launch is scheduled for the last week of June and will reach most distribution channels in early July.
-Robert

So am I understanding correctly that Pioneer will be releasing more pure 50" panels than Pure 60" and the Elite 50" and 60" models at launch?

Or is their focus throughout the year going to be the 5020, resulting in a drought of PRO-151FDs and PDP-6020s?

So am I understanding correctly that Pioneer will be releasing more pure 50" panels than Elite and 60" models at launch?

Or is their focus throughout the year going to be the 5020, resulting in a drought of PRO-151FDs and PDP-6020s?

Must be trying to boost sales by trying get their "consumer" level model out in numbers.

Must be trying to boost sales by trying get their "consumer" level model out in numbers.

I'm just hoping we don't end up in a situation like we had last year where people were waiting 2-3 months to get a 60" Elite.

I'm just hoping we don't end up in a situation like we had last year where people were waiting 2-3 months to get a 60" Elite.

I understand, I'm tvless(27"crt Sharp) right now and waiting to look all the new models/mfg up close and it is killing me, wife is happy though:)

Hey y'all. Thanks for the encouragement - I think I got encouragement on both sides. Buy now! Take briansemerick's challenge! :eek:

I'm planning on buying a 9th generation Elite. I could get so bowled over by the 6020 that i choose it - but I'm pretty psyched about the Elite. I just have to decide whether to wait for the thin bezel or not. I'm shoehorning my set on to a 71" wall - so if the thin bezel has a smaller footprint, it might be worth waiting for. Also, I think I'll like it better aesthetically. But damn, it would be cool to have the TV before the Olympics.

And I haven't read anything about the new laser TVs. I didn't realize they were so imminent. I guess I better find their thread too.

Dunno about Kuro killer, but I think rear-projection TVs should be scared. I
do wonder, though, if this is one of the reasons why Pioneer is now releasing
their Elites and 60 inches at launch. Whatever the case, I thought 2007 would
be the killer year, but 2008 looks interesting.

I don't mean this in a negative way (I am not trying to flame/troll) but does anyone still make rear projection tvs? I mean sony left the market, I haven't seen a panasonic, toshiba, or samsung rptv in ages. Realistically speaking when was the last time you went into any store and saw a large collection of rptvs on display?

In my opinion the waf (wife acceptance factor) as well as the increased presence of reasonably priced 50+ inch flat panels has pretty much killed them all off, but a well those are just my personal thoughts on the matter

So wait a sec guys....the elite models will have a thiner bezel than the non-elites? I thought the thiner bezels were a feature only on the monitor (no tuner, etc) models.

I don't mean this in a negative way (I am not trying to flame/troll) but does anyone still make rear projection tvs? I mean sony left the market, I haven't seen a panasonic, toshiba, or samsung rptv in ages. Realistically speaking when was the last time you went into any store and saw a large collection of rptvs on display?

In my opinion the waf (wife acceptance factor) as well as the increased presence of reasonably priced 50+ inch flat panels has pretty much killed them all off, but a well those are just my personal thoughts on the matter
Last time I walked into a Best Buy, Circuit City, and Tweeter (very recent in all 3 cases), they each had DLP RPTV's on display from Mitsubishi and Samsung. They definitely don't have large selections of them, but they are still there and MUCH less expensive than equivalent sized plasmas and especially LCD's. When's the last time you went into a store and saw a 73" plasma display? ;)

So wait a sec guys....the elite models will have a thiner bezel than the non-elites? I thought the thiner bezels were a feature only on the monitor (no tuner, etc) models.

that's exactly what it is. there will be regular, elite, and thin elite (monitors)

Thanks Robert, exactly what I want. Now all I have to do is be patient until then :)

ps: would I be correct these elite monitors will have 1 to 1 pixel mapping also?

First of all, yes, Pioneer will have 4 Elite and 2 non-elite panels. The monitor only panels will be introduced late Q4-08 and are exactly like the PRO-111FD and PRO-151FD, less the QAM and ATSC tuners, no audio circuitry, no speakers and no stand. So yes to Dot to Dot pixel matching and all other Elite specifications.

The thinner depth and bezel is a result of less built-in components and no exact specifications are released yet, but do not expect much savings in depth or bezel dimensions.

-Robert

For all of you guys waiting on 10G Kuros:

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/04/21/afx4915560.html

For all of you guys waiting on 10G Kuros:

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/04/21/afx4915560.html

Very interesting and I think this statement makes sense:
Under the merger plan to be announced later this week, Matsushita will receive Pioneer's plasma panel technology and incorporate it into its own high-definition panels, the business daily said.

After all, using different processes to produce panels is not economical.

- Rich

"Under the merger plan to be announced later this week, Matsushita will receive Pioneer's plasma panel technology and incorporate it into its own high-definition panels"

So I take it this will mean an improvement in the glass and may be other components for future Panasonic branded plasmas.

The decision to wait for a 10G is still as unclear as ever...

After all, using different processes to produce panels is not economical.

- RichWell, there really wasn't that much difference between Pioneer and Panasonic when it came to 5 lumen tech (2009 models)...cell structure wise.

For all of you guys waiting on 10G Kuros:

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/04/21/afx4915560.html

:confused::confused::confused: Now what? I was ready to splurge on a 6020, but the proposition of being able to get Kuro black levels from a cheaper Panasonic with 5 lumen tech is very tempting. Is Panasonic going to give Pioneer 58" and 65" glass, or will they give them 50" and 60"?

For all of you guys waiting on 10G Kuros:

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/04/21/afx4915560.html

Damn, According to the wife I get one more shot to get this right for the next 5+ years and this on the horizon. Do I get one of the upcoming models or wait for the Pionanny? It does make sense for companies with technology and efficient production capabilities to merge though.

Well, there really wasn't that much difference between Pioneer and Panasonic when it came to 5 lumen tech (2009 models)...cell structure wise.

So how different will pannys and pios be in the future? What characteristics of a tv are related to "Pioneer's plasma panel technology" (part that will be transferred)? Black levels? Contrast? color accuracy? Everything?

For all of you guys waiting on 10G Kuros:

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/04/21/afx4915560.html

That is great news, and the fact that: Pioneer will also transfer its 200 technicians to Matsushita." should assure people that Pioneer quality will be maintained.:)

:confused::confused::confused: Now what? I was ready to splurge on a 6020, but the proposition of being able to get Kuro black levels from a cheaper Panasonic with 5 lumen tech is very tempting. Is Panasonic going to give Pioneer 58" and 65" glass, or will they give them 50" and 60"?
Well, if you want to wait well over a year to get a 2009 Panaonic, by all means do it. I wouldnt...but thats just me.

So how different will pannys and pios be in the future? What characteristics of a tv are related to "Pioneer's plasma panel technology" (part that will be transferred)? Black levels? Contrast? color accuracy? Everything?Panasonic gets to use Pioneer's glass tech....bonded color filter and cell structure. Processing and most panel driving tech stays with Pioneer.

What does this mean? Well look at the LCD industry to find your answer. What is the difference between a Samsung and Sony when they both use the same glass? What's the difference between Toshiba and Sharp? Better even, look at the history of CRT.

At some point, the returns from increasing low black levels are diminishing.

For me, I waited a long time for near perfect blacks, and I don't watch movies in a pitch black room so the diff between a 9G Kuro and 10G ECC is not worth it right now. Any amount of ambient light will render a perfect black difference as compared to 0.00XftL on a 9G all but irrelevant visually speaking.

When this TV is older and relegated to bedroom status I will for sure get a ECC/whatever crazy TV is out then. For now the 9G Pio will more than satisfy my needs and probably those of most.

That is great news, and the fact that: Pioneer will also transfer its 200 technicians to Matsushita." should assure people that Pioneer quality will be maintained.:)Yep. Look for an end to false contouring plaqued and reduced green fringing Panasonics in 2009 ;)

At some point, the returns from increasing low black levels are diminishing.

For me, I waited a long time for near perfect blacks, and I don't watch movies in a pitch black room so the diff between a 9G Kuro and 10G ECC is not worth it right now. Any amount of ambient light will render a perfect black difference as compared to 0.00XftL on a 9G all but irrelevant visually speaking.

When this TV is older and relegated to bedroom status I will for sure get a ECC/whatever crazy TV is out then. For now the 9G Pio will more than satisfy my needs and probably those of most.You and I are on the same page :)

Yep. Look for an end to false contouring plaqued and reduced green fringing Panasonics in 2009 ;)

Are you sure? I think this merger agreement is for their top of line models and these problems seem inherent on the lesser models?

Are you sure? I think this merger agreement is for their top of line models and these problems seem inherent on the lesser models?Panasonic's false contouring is due to their driving technique. It is in all of their plasmas.

At some point, the returns from increasing low black levels are diminishing.

For me, I waited a long time for near perfect blacks, and I don't watch movies in a pitch black room so the diff between a 9G Kuro and 10G ECC is not worth it right now. Any amount of ambient light will render a perfect black difference as compared to 0.00XftL on a 9G all but irrelevant visually speaking.

When this TV is older and relegated to bedroom status I will for sure get a ECC/whatever crazy TV is out then. For now the 9G Pio will more than satisfy my needs and probably those of most.

As I've said before, the 9G is definitely the thing to get. Anyone picking it up
better make sure they get them early enough as there are bound to be shortages
again. I guess I'll have to buy that 151 a lot earlier than expected.

Is Panasonic going to give Pioneer 58" and 65" glass, or will they give them 50" and 60"?

Are the picture presets going to be independent per input or universal like before?

Different Pure mode settings on different inputs??

Are the picture presets going to be independent per input or universal like before?Same as the 8Gs

Different Pure mode settings on different inputs??No

Same as the 8Gs

No

That's too bad.........

Thanks D.

Same as the 8Gs

No

how do you get perfect calibration on a TV if all sources have the same settings?

Panasonic's false contouring is due to their driving technique. It is in all of their plasmas.
Owned a 700u actually, three of them and didn't see it.

Owned a 700u actually, three of them and didn't see it.Myself and others have. It's a good thing that you didn't :)