As I've said before, the 9G is definitely the thing to get. Anyone picking it up
better make sure they get them early enough as there are bound to be shortages
again. I guess I'll have to buy that 151 a lot earlier than expected.

90% agree with you. You also forgot to mention that producing less panels per day may not be cost efficient but as a consumer you may associate it as "less made = more care put to those that are made". That's basically the counter argument to waiting for the 10G's. There are some of us considering to wait but really look at the reality of how much value there is in doing so. Real word image quality wise, the difference may be minimal.

I think the one thing that makes me hesitate is that, with Panasonic producing the glass, a 65" Kuro is almost a certainty. I would rather have that than a 60". On the other hand, what will be the quality of this glass produced in a different place even if it has Pioneer specifications? All those Pioneer technicians coming over is a very comforting thought and all but still...

how do you get perfect calibration on a TV if all sources have the same settings?There is no such thing as perfect calibration for cable/sat/OTA.

BD and HD DVD, well the only items I have ever had to change is the brightness setting.

SD DVD, iffy, but most brands adhere to standards.

Technically speaking, that is what ISFccc is for on the Elites.

90% agree with you. You also forgot to mention that producing less panels per day may not be cost efficient but as a consumer you may associate it as "less made = more care put to those that are made". That's basically the counter argument to waiting for the 10G's. There are some of us considering to wait but really look at the reality of how much value there is in doing so. Real word image quality wise, the difference may be minimal.

I think the one thing that makes me hesitate is that, with Panasonic producing the glass, a 65" Kuro is almost a certainty. I would rather have that than a 60". On the other hand, what will be the quality of this glass produced in a different place even if it has Pioneer specifications? All those Pioneer technicians coming over is a very comforting thought and all but still...The quality will be at Pioneer's level. That is the whole point of the tech team moving over.

Myself and others have. It's a good thing that you didn't :)

Glad I didn't see it either, God knows I'm picky enough:)

Panasonic gets to use Pioneer's glass tech....bonded color filter and cell structure. Processing and most panel driving tech stays with Pioneer.

What does this mean? Well look at the LCD industry to find your answer. What is the difference between a Samsung and Sony when they both use the same glass? What's the difference between Toshiba and Sharp? Better even, look at the history of CRT.

In the end, is this deal structured as you initially thought? I seem to remember that you talked about contract manufacturing (building to Pioneer's specs) ... this will indeed be the case but all pannys will use the same tech so Pioneer's specs actually become Pananosinc's specs ...

Anyway, the difference in-between Pio and the others will remain substantial. I remember being in an electronics shop with a DVD playing (Phil Collins in concert) on several tvs (Samsung, Panasonic, etc.). I exagerate a bit but it looked like there was a snow storm going on ... I asked to connect the 8G to the same player and we got a crystal clear picture ... even the sales guy was surprised!

We'll probably get a significant boost in the electronics part of the Pios next year as it seems that 9g doesn't have that many new chips inside (just an impression I have from micro-analysing these threads:))

How much thinner will 10G be compared to 9G?

So is this merger thing misinformation or actual breaking news? If I'm understanding it right, it reads like all those sky is falling reactions people got so defensive over were (more or less) correct.

So is this merger thing misinformation or actual breaking news? If I'm understanding it right, it reads like all those sky is falling reactions people got so defensive over were (more or less) correct.

It reads as if there will be a great deal of change. Uncertainty always causes people to panic. It's too early to even read between the lines from what we know thus far. We gotta get through the 9G's first. :D

It seems as if Pioneer will retain most of the "secret sauce". This, however, doesn't help me foresee into the future as far as difference in price for a possible Kuro 65", price reductions since these will be mass produced now, quality of new glass, intangible hurdles of new way to mass producing Kuros, etc.

So is this merger thing misinformation or actual breaking news? If I'm understanding it right, it reads like all those sky is falling reactions people got so defensive over were (more or less) correct.

I think this news is really the opposite of the "sky is falling" reactions. That reaction essentially was "oh no, Pioneer Kuro technology may disappear from the planet." Instead, what we see is that the fundamental Pioneer Kuro technology will live on, not only in Pioneer sets, but in Panasonic's too. I.e., instead of going from 1 to 0 manufacturers using the Pioneer Kuro tech, we've gone from 1 to 2.

As far as Pioneer retaining the "secret sauce," I think the sauce is all they're keeping. It seem that they're sharing the meat and potatoes with Matsushita/Panasonic.

EDIT: Though perhaps I am jumping the gun. D-Nice, you said in a post a while back that Pioneer's "driver and/or algorithm" would not be included in any licensing package to Matsushita. Is that still true? If so, how seriously does that hamper Matsushita's ability to take advantage of Kuro black technology? Would they be able to work around Pioneer's patents?

I think this whole deal is quid pro quo. Pioneer gives them some glass tech and matsushita makes the glass inexpensive. Pioneer will differentiate through software and drive tech.

This announcement only ensures plasmas survival. Good for them.

Paul

Yes, I too am looking forward to this LaserVUE tv from Mitsubishi.

Count me in if there any fricken sharks involved in this fricken laser technology. Mwuhaha. Mwuhahahahaha. Mwuhahahahahahahahahaha.

http://www.gearfuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/drevil.jpg

I think this whole deal is quid pro quo. Pioneer gives them some glass tech and matsushita makes the glass inexpensive. Pioneer will differentiate through software and drive tech.

This announcement only ensures plasmas survival. Good for them.

PaulWill the assembly of Pioneer PDPs be moved "south of the border (http://www.bajalife.com/v5pg36.htm)?"

Count me in if there any fricken sharks involved in this fricken laser technology. Mwuhaha. Mwuhahahahaha. Mwuhahahahahahahahahaha.

Nope, just Sea Bass..:D

I don't understand why Pioneer is sharing some of their technology rights with panasonic. They shouldn't have to do that in order to contract out thier glass.
Is panasonic making it a condition of the deal?
What is pioneer thinking? You would think that this would hurt them in the long run since alot of consumers will think "We can get a panasonic, which is using some of the same technology that pioneer uses, for cheaper".

My PRO 110FD will serve me just fine for another 2-3 years, till the 10g-11g Pioneer PDP's come out, then the 110 will go to my bedroom and the new Pio will go in the living room. And from reading these forums most in here never really go buy the PDP they are talking about, always waiting for the next model to come out before the current model is on the shelves, I call those window shoppers.

Will the assembly of Pioneer PDPs be moved "south of the border (http://www.bajalife.com/v5pg36.htm)?"

It looks like glass for 10g will be in matsushitas new plant in japan.

Assembly and glass will be in pios remaining plants in japan for 9g.

Do not anticipate 10g assembly anywhere but matsushita as there as they are transplanting 200 employees to that new plant in 2009.

Paul

Will the assembly of Pioneer PDPs be moved "south of the border (http://www.bajalife.com/v5pg36.htm)?"

I certainly hope not.
Is it just me or is anyone else getting sick of electronics assembly jobs getting sent to mexico and customer service jobs getting sent to india?
This decreases quality of the actual plasma set and when you have problems you have to call India and speak with "hard to understand" customer service reps.
i mean pretty soon the Illegal aliens will not have to move to america to take our jobs, they can just stay in mexico or move to india.

I don't understand why Pioneer is sharing some of their technology rights with panasonic. They shouldn't have to do that in order to contract out thier glass.
Is panasonic making it a condition of the deal?
What is pioneer thinking? You would think that this would hurt them in the long run since alot of consumers will think "We can get a panasonic, which is using some of the same technology that pioneer uses, for cheaper".

That seemed a bit overboard to me too when I first heard about it.

The only thing that makes much sense is that there isn't a lot of glass manufacturers out there and Pioneer did this to help drop their cost.

In the end, is this deal structured as you initially thought?No. Panasonic is getting more Pioneer tech than what was originally suppose to happen.

I seem to remember that you talked about contract manufacturing (building to Pioneer's specs) ... this will indeed be the case but all pannys will use the same tech so Pioneer's specs actually become Pananosinc's specs ...The actual PDP glass yes....with a few PDP driver secrets. Will they be able to fully recreate say a 9G Kuro next year...or better? I cannot say at this time. I need to get more details.

Anyway, the difference in-between Pio and the others will remain substantial. Absolutely. But I know a few Panasonic and SED worshipers on this board who will claim otherwise.

So is this merger thing misinformation or actual breaking news? If I'm understanding it right, it reads like all those sky is falling reactions people got so defensive over were (more or less) correct.How were they correct? They claimed that the new PDP glass will be inferior to what will be available in the 9G Kuros. They are DEAD wrong.

I think this news is really the opposite of the "sky is falling" reactions. That reaction essentially was "oh no, Pioneer Kuro technology may disappear from the planet." Instead, what we see is that the fundamental Pioneer Kuro technology will live on, not only in Pioneer sets, but in Panasonic's too. I.e., instead of going from 1 to 0 manufacturers using the Pioneer Kuro tech, we've gone from 1 to 2.

As far as Pioneer retaining the "secret sauce," I think the sauce is all they're keeping. It seem that they're sharing the meat and potatoes with Matsushita/Panasonic.

EDIT: Though perhaps I am jumping the gun. D-Nice, you said in a post a while back that Pioneer's "driver and/or algorithm" would not be included in any licensing package to Matsushita. Is that still true? If so, how seriously does that hamper Matsushita's ability to take advantage of Kuro black technology? Would they be able to work around Pioneer's patents?Actually There will be 3 manufactuers with "Kuro" type blacks.....Hitachi ...... ;)

Will the assembly of Pioneer PDPs be moved "south of the border (http://www.bajalife.com/v5pg36.htm)?"No. You may actually see Japan assembled Pioneers next year ;)

I don't understand why Pioneer is sharing some of their technology rights with panasonic. They shouldn't have to do that in order to contract out thier glass.
Is panasonic making it a condition of the deal?
What is pioneer thinking? You would think that this would hurt them in the long run since alot of consumers will think "We can get a panasonic, which is using some of the same technology that pioneer uses, for cheaper".Do you think a Samsung LCD (not the LD LED one) is better than a Sony XBR? Both use the same glass.

It looks like glass for 10g will be in matsushitas new plant in japan.Correct

Assembly and glass will be in pios remaining plants in japan for 9g.Correct

Do not anticipate 10g assembly anywhere but matsushita as there as they are transplanting 200 employees to that new plant in 2009.

Paul
Incorrect. 10G will be assembled @ Pioneer. The 200 techs are for the actual glass manufacturing.

DNICE:

Do the standard 9G Pioneers have ISFccc? I think I read in a European release that they do....





Technically speaking, that is what ISFccc is for on the Elites.

DNICE:

Do the standard 9G Pioneers have ISFccc? I think I read in a European release that they do....
no

I don't understand why Pioneer is sharing some of their technology rights with panasonic. They shouldn't have to do that in order to contract out thier glass.
Is panasonic making it a condition of the deal?
What is pioneer thinking? You would think that this would hurt them in the long run since alot of consumers will think "We can get a panasonic, which is using some of the same technology that pioneer uses, for cheaper".

I think you need to look at this deal for what it is. This is not a contract manufacturing situation - it is a partnership intended to create a juggernaut to produce high quality plasma television sets to compete with LCD and other coming technologies.

This is essentially a joint venture in which each party contributes its strength - manufacturing and distribution from Matsushita/Panasonic and Kuro (and perhaps other) technology from Pioneer. Think Lexus and Toyota. They'll each produce their own variants, but they will be built on the same fundamental technology platform .... Pioneer will sell the ISs and RX350s and Panasonic will sell the Camrys and Highlanders.

I hate to say it (ok, ok, I admit ... I LOVE to say it) but I've said from the very first day that news wafted out about Pioneer dropping its panel manufacturing that this was where this would end up (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13294050#post13294050).

First of all, yes, Pioneer will have 4 Elite and 2 non-elite panels. The monitor only panels will be introduced late Q4-08 and are exactly like the PRO-111FD and PRO-151FD, less the QAM and ATSC tuners, no audio circuitry, no speakers and no stand. So yes to Dot to Dot pixel matching and all other Elite specifications.

The thinner depth and bezel is a result of less built-in components and no exact specifications are released yet, but do not expect much savings in depth or bezel dimensions.

-Robert


Thanks again Robert, this is what I am going to purchase. I never watch TV or DVDs without my audio system going, I spent wayyyyyyyyyyy too much (not really, smiles) on the surround to not enjoy it all the time, so no speakers needed, and I use the DTV HD DVR with the built-in over the air tuner for Sat and locals. Moving the 43" Pio to the bedroom with the Denon DVD, and going to pick up an OPPO 983, so the Dot to Dot pixel matching is a welcome feature as well. Now if I can be patient until the fall all is good :)

John

Hello everyone, complete nub (new useless body) to the avs community and pretty much home theater displays as well. While I have been lurking/researching in this forum and on the rest of the net for which plasma display to purchase for quite some time now, I have narrowed it down to either a really good deal on a pro-110fd through a friend or the 1k lower msrp of 111fd when they finally do come out. So, I was hoping someone on here, possibly D-nice or DTV Tivo Dealer, could expand on any possible differences, positive or negative, (besides the 80% darker blacks) between the 8th gen and 9th gen Kuros. For example, I've read that the 9g's will not be brighter, but will they be dimmer, as the 110fd is dimmer than the fhd1? Anything that you guys can summarize as a difference between the two would be greatly appreciated. Not tryin to hi-jack this thread, I just thought it may be pertinent to its original subject. Thanks in advance.
Nick

I hate to say it (ok, ok, I admit ... I LOVE to say it) but I've said from the very first day that news wafted out about Pioneer dropping its panel manufacturing that this was where this would end up (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13294050#post13294050).


You definitely called it!!! I hope their partnership leads to great things, but not so great that it makes me regret purchasing a 9G Pioneer when next year's models come out. ;)

Hello everyone, complete nub (new useless body) to the avs community and pretty much home theater displays as well. While I have been lurking/researching in this forum and on the rest of the net for which plasma display to purchase for quite some time now, I have narrowed it down to either a really good deal on a pro-110fd through a friend or the 1k lower msrp of 111fd when they finally do come out. So, I was hoping someone on here, possibly D-nice or DTV Tivo Dealer, could expand on any possible differences, positive or negative, (besides the 80% darker blacks) between the 8th gen and 9th gen Kuros. For example, I've read that the 9g's will not be brighter, but will they be dimmer, as the 110fd is dimmer than the fhd1? Anything that you guys can summarize as a difference between the two would be greatly appreciated. Not tryin to hi-jack this thread, I just thought it may be pertinent to its original subject. Thanks in advance.
NickWho ever told you that the 9Gs will be dimmer lied. You will have to wait until May for any new information.

posted this in another thread.

This would be a good question for D-nice.
Are the 9g elites gonna have a true CMS with both tint and luminance of all six colors? Being able to move the color points in both X and Y would be sweet!

Do you think a Samsung LCD (not the LD LED one) is better than a Sony XBR? Both use the same glass.

I like the sony better.
I had the Samsung LNT5271f LCD and the KDL52XBR4 Sony LCD but I am not sure if they had the same glass. did they? When you say "same glass" what do you mean? The XBR I had was a matte screen and the samsung was glossy and heavily reflective. Were those two models the same glass?

Why are people saying all these things people are saying about Pioneer sharing thier "secret sauce" with panasonic? Is it just bologna? If it will only be the glass (which I hope), Then its not that bad. People are panicing too much I think. I hear words like Piosonic and Pananeer which is blowing things way out of proportion. So is it official yet that Pioneer will not be sharing anything other than the glass and driver stuff?

Who ever told you that the 9Gs will be dimmer lied. You will have to wait until May for any new information.

I was only asking if the 9g's might be dimmer as I have seen reviews of the 110 vs the fhd1 that showed the 110 to be the dimmer of the two. Again, that was only an example. Sorry for the ignorance, in previous searches I failed to see your info about 9g brightness vs 8g. While I'm not stuck on absolute brightness, I've yet to see a correctly calibrated 8g in person. So it was just one concern of mine after reading that review of the 8g, that referenced the fhd1, that if the 9g Kuro was dimmer, it may be an issue for day time viewing. Maybe my posts should have been made in the 9g Kuro Information (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1006835&highlight=9g) thread. Mods, please feel free to move if need be. :o

Lastly, sorry to pester, but are there any other differences you can share that may help me make my decision? Essentially, if my 8g price is only slightly better than my 9g price, is it definitely worth the 2-3 month wait?

Who ever told you that the 9Gs will be dimmer lied. You will have to wait until May for any new information.

I'm sure I read somewhere that you said it'll be plenty brigther than the current
8G panels. After your statement above, I am getting the impression that Pioneer
are about to disclose some sort of tech in their 9G line that will make things
a little brighter for those who want it. I do recall you saying something about
them being brighter, but you not really caring for that fact. Oh wait, perhaps
I misunderstood 'brightness' for whites:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13674367&postcount=815

What I'm wondering is, there are times on the 8G when the scene is so dark, it's
hard to distinguish the material from the black background. Its in such cases
where the blacks on the 8G looks like a very dark charcoal colour (not quite black)
making it hard to discern the darker movie content from the charcoal black background.
What I'm wondering is, beyond the effects of improved blacks making the dark
material easier to see (with better shades of grey), will there be elevated contrast
due to increased peak whiteness as well? Also, is the peak-limiter going to get a bit
of a boost? I hope I don't sound stupid in asking. I'm assuming the peak limiter
really kicks in during high ansi contrast scenes. This is mainly useful for daylight
viewing, IMHO, as it's generally no issue at night.

How were they correct? They claimed that the new PDP glass will be inferior to what will be available in the 9G Kuros. They are DEAD wrong.

That was mostly in reference to the cries about Panasonic getting the Kuro Secret Sauce. The general defense (prior to this information) seemed to be that Panasonic would NOT have access to any of Pioneers patents (glass, processing, or otherwise)--they would merely be manufacturing the glass per Pioneers specifications for Pioneer ONLY. If this is correct, it sounds like Panasonic will in fact be branding and selling a large part of Pioneers magic.

Do the standard 9G Pioneers have ISFccc? I think I read in a European release that they do...
no

D-Nice, you're talking non-Elite US 9Gs here, right? Because
I'd be surprised if the LX5090/6090 didn't allow for ISFccc.

No. Panasonic is getting more Pioneer tech than what was originally suppose to happen.


How will Pioneer be compensated (what's Panasonic giving up incrementally)? Margin on the Pioneer panel? Some kind of royalty per panasonic panel?

While Pio & Panny are swapping out video tech trade secrets, maybe they could negotiate a deal w/Fujitsu for that AVM video processor!

posted this in another thread.

This would be a good question for D-nice.
Are the 9g elites gonna have a true CMS with both tint and luminance of all six colors? Being able to move the color points in both X and Y would be sweet!Nope

That was mostly in reference to the cries about Panasonic getting the Kuro Secret Sauce. The general defense (prior to this information) seemed to be that Panasonic would NOT have access to any of Pioneers patents (glass, processing, or otherwise)--they would merely be manufacturing the glass per Pioneers specifications for Pioneer ONLY. If this is correct, it sounds like Panasonic will in fact be branding and selling a large part of Pioneers magic.Pansonic will NOT have access to Pioneer's processing, most of the driving hardware and non of the software. Claiming that this is the majority of Pioneer's tech is borderline ludicrous.

D-Nice, you're talking non-Elite US 9Gs here, right? Because
I'd be surprised if the LX5090/6090 didn't allow for ISFccc.
Correct. I never talk about the EU models as they are completely irrelevant to the NA market.

What I'm wondering is, there are times on the 8G when the scene is so dark, it's
hard to distinguish the material from the black background. Its in such cases
where the blacks on the 8G looks like a very dark charcoal colour (not quite black)
making it hard to discern the darker movie content from the charcoal black background.
What I'm wondering is, beyond the effects of improved blacks making the dark
material easier to see (with better shades of grey), will there be elevated contrast
due to increased peak whiteness as well? Also, is the peak-limiter going to get a bit
of a boost? I hope I don't sound stupid in asking. I'm assuming the peak limiter
really kicks in during high ansi contrast scenes. This is mainly useful for daylight
viewing, IMHO, as it's generally no issue at night.You will see deeper blacks and more shadow detail in low APL scenes on the 9G Kuros.

How will Pioneer be compensated (what's Panasonic giving up incrementally)? Margin on the Pioneer panel? Some kind of royalty per panasonic panel?You know no one is going to answer this question on a public forum :)

While Pio & Panny are swapping out video tech trade secrets, maybe they could negotiate a deal w/Fujitsu for that AVM video processor!Pioneer won't need to AVM processor ;)

You know no one is going to answer this question on a public forum :)

Now, what a shame that you don't take private messages ! :)

How will Pioneer be compensated (what's Panasonic giving up incrementally)? Margin on the Pioneer panel? Some kind of royalty per panasonic panel?

I think the only obvious compensation for Pioneer is that they get to make panels more effectively and cheaper for hopefully a decent profit. I say that's a big benefit.

I think the only obvious compensation for Pioneer is that they get to make panels more effectively and cheaper for hopefully a decent profit. I say that's a big benefit.

They can get that from a contract manufacturer

In the end, is this deal structured as you initially thought? I seem to remember that you talked about contract manufacturing (building to Pioneer's specs) ... this will indeed be the case but all pannys will use the same tech so Pioneer's specs actually become Pananosinc's specs ...



From the translation of the Japanese article posted at the "pioneer is dead " thread

"will also have the same panel VIERA Matsushita is using. The same panel, Matsushita is VIERA, is a pioneer KURO, each brand is maintained. Video processing circuitry, such as the pursuit of their functions in terms of building and painting, in an effort to differentiate."

would suggest that the panel will be the same as the VIERA with differentiation based on electronics.

While passing the Pio technology to Matsushita might be in the works wouldn't incorporating that technology whole-hog into all of Panny's manufacturing for ALL Panny's panels by next year be a little wishful thinking.

That thing about building some subset of panels to Pio specs seems less likely if this announcement was translated properly.

They can get that from a contract manufacturer

...or from a big player like Panasonic on a brand new plasma factory with 200of the Pioneer techs.

i still can't see why anyone would get fired up over any of this - i want the best picture, i don't care what brand it is. if any of this jumping into bed gets a better picture, then great. who cares the make/model?

i still can't see why anyone would get fired up over any of this - i want the best picture, i don't care what brand it is. if any of this jumping into bed gets a better picture, then great. who cares the make/model?

QFT!!! :D

You will see deeper blacks and more shadow detail in low APL scenes on the 9G Kuros.

Good to know, thanks. That's the only time I find the blacks need to be a
little deeper. Hmm, I'm still debating on whether I wait for 2009 for the 60
inch and stick to the 50 inch (bedroom) for the 9G and use it in the main
room until then. I read on another post the 2009 (10G) will yield the infamous
5-lumen tech which should be more energy efficient and cheaper. Being that
I am moving to a new house next year, perhaps I should consider my hydro
bill and wait. Besides, if it's cheaper, perhaps the price of the 2009 60 inch (10G)
will be close to that of initial MSRP of the 50 inch 9G. :)

Good to know, thanks. That's the only time I find the blacks need to be a
little deeper. Hmm, I'm still debating on whether I wait for 2009 for the 60
inch and stick to the 50 inch (bedroom) for the 9G and use it in the main
room until then. I read on another post the 2009 (10G) will yield the infamous
5-lumen tech which should be more energy efficient and cheaper. Being that
I am moving to a new house next year, perhaps I should consider my hydro
bill and wait. Besides, if it's cheaper, perhaps the price of the 2009 60 inch (10G)
will be close to that of initial MSRP of the 50 inch 9G. :)There will be no 60" models in Pioneer's 2009 lineup.

There will be no 60" models in Pioneer's 2009 lineup.
Oh, then 9G 60 inch it is then. I don't think I could afford higher than 60 inch. Thanks.

Yep. Look for an end to false contouring plaqued and reduced green fringing Panasonics in 2009 ;)
Panasonic's false contouring is due to their driving technique. It is in all of their plasmas.
Pansonic will NOT have access to Pioneer's processing, most of the driving hardware and non of the software.
Something doesn't add up here. If Panasonic doesn't have access to Pioneer's driving technique and if false contouring is caused by the driving technique (which I agree with) then how can 2009 Panasonics get rid of false contouring?

Oh, then 9G 60 inch it is then. I don't think I could afford higher than 60 inch. Thanks.

it's too bad they're off by a year. the numbers get confusing. 9G in 2008, 8G in 2007. would be much easier if it was 8G in 2008, etc. ;)

There will be no 60" models in Pioneer's 2009 lineup.

What will be their two largest, screen size, 2009 models?

What will be their two largest, screen size, 2009 models?

My bet is either 65 or 75 inches. If 65, then perhaps I could afford it, if 75,
then forget it... outta my league.

There will be no 60" models in Pioneer's 2009 lineup.

there will be 50" now, will there??????

Something doesn't add up here. If Panasonic doesn't have access to Pioneer's driving technique and if false contouring is caused by the driving technique (which I agree with) then how can 2009 Panasonics get rid of false contouring?They don't and won't have access to all of the driving tech. They will have access to the firing technique which is Panasonic's false contouring issue.

Edit: Firing technique is a bad label. Panasonic uses ADS driving while Pioneer uses Contiguous driving. Panasonic will switch to Contiguous driving as ADS is the causes false contouring....among other things.

There will be no 60" models in Pioneer's 2009 lineup.

Ahhh...this just gets more interesting by the day. I can only guess that most likely the 2009 Kuro will have a 65"er in their lineup. "Bigger is Better" with these 1080p Kuro's, provided the price is right.

Saw the LX6090 and LX6090H at the High End 2008 in Munich today.
The LX6090H has a different menu to help navigate network servers
(it can play videos, music and display pictures from such sources).
You can assemble your "favorites" from channels across all three
receivers (analog, DVB-T (Freeview) and HD satellite) as well
as network media servers and external inputs - good idea!
Picture was impressive as usual, but unfortunately Pioneer
chose to present the two sets in a fairly bright room, so I
couldn't really see how good those black levels really were. :(

Anyway, what else is new? Still no prices for Germany (even though
www.areadvd.de had reported they'd be announced at the show),
but from what I was told the 50-inchers will be "well below 4000 Euro".
The regular models should be available in mid/late June. There will also
be slim models (about 6cm) with an external media box coming this fall,
those will be called KP509/609 (EDIT: correct model names from bumtious).
EDIT: Forgot to mention that it seems the models with an integrated
hard disc that I heard about a month ago may not be coming after all.

Panasonic had a booth right next to Pioneer's, so I checked out
the TH-46PZ85E. Intelligent Frame Creation worked nicely on the
scene they had selected (a trailer for Ice Age 2), but some odd
flickering lines and some really unpretty posterization in the sky
really messed up the image in my opinion - as much as I'd like
to pay less for my next plasma, those flaws are unacceptable. For
some reason that was the best plasma they had on display - all the
bigger ones were last year's models and there was no 800 set present.

Panasonic had a booth right next to Pioneer's, so I checked out
the PZ46TH85. Intelligent Frame Creation worked nicely on the
scene they had selected (a trailer for Ice Age 2) [...]


Does the 9G Pioneer have anything (new?) in the "Frame Interpolation / Smoothing" department?
Panasonic seems to be marketing their IFC quite aggressively, yet i haven't read anything about a comparable feature in the 9G Pioneer...

They don't and won't have access to all of the driving tech. They will have access to the firing technique which is Panasonic's false contouring issue.

Edit: Firing technique is a bad label. Panasonic uses ADS driving while Pioneer uses Contiguous driving. Panasonic will switch to Contiguous driving as ADS is the causes false contouring....among other things.
That makes a lot of sense. But contiguous driving introduces a bit more "noise", right? Those people who prefer Panasonic to Pioneer because of the noise will then have to rethink next year? Or are they upping the bitdepth enough to get the noise down?

Does the 9G Pioneer have anything (new?) in the "Frame Interpolation / Smoothing" department?
Panasonic seems to be marketing their IFC quite aggressively, yet i haven't read anything about a comparable feature in the 9G Pioneer...

Panasonic are pushing their IFC because it's a new thing for them. The 8G Kuros
already had a "smooth mode" that did the same, possibly even some older models,
too. I don't know if that'll work any different/better in the 9G Kuros (D-Nice? :)).

Does anyone know if the networking feature in the 9th Gen. Kuros will play better with macs?

Does anyone know if the networking feature in the 9th Gen. Kuros will play better with macs?
I think you'll need to wait for 10G for that to happen :D.

Sure it's not the 11th? LOL.

is it May 13th yet?

:(

If they r getting panels from penny, then 65 inch is no brainier, tweaked!

While Pio & Panny are swapping out video tech trade secrets, maybe they could negotiate a deal w/Fujitsu for that AVM video processor!

AVM, <drool>, now that would make for the perfect plasma...... :)

For all of you guys waiting on 10G Kuros:

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/04/21/afx4915560.html

Panasonic has been tapped to pinch-hit for Pioneer.

The two television makers said Wednesday they had come to an agreement in which Panasonic will produce the panels for Pioneer's plasma televisions.

The news comes a month after reports surfaced that Pioneer was pulling out of the plasma business. When Pioneer confirmed it would be finding someone who could make the panels more inexpensively than it could, there was a sense of dismay and disappointment among fans of its Kuro technology. Pioneer plasma TVs are generally regarded by experts--including CNET Reviews' David Katzmaier--as having the blackest black levels of any TV on the market.

In a joint statement, the two companies said they will build a new type of panel that integrates Pioneer's Kuro technology and Panasonic's NeoPDP, which it currently uses in its Viera TVs. Panasonic will have the panels sporting the new, combined technology ready for Pioneer by the second half of 2009.

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/04/21/afx4915560.html

Matsushita will instead supply Pioneer with panels for TVs 42 inches and larger.

Does this mean Pioneer will once again be making 42" plasmas?

must be a typo - i'm sure it meant to say larger than 42 inches.

My bet is either 65 or 75 inches. If 65, then perhaps I could afford it, if 75,
then forget it... outta my league.

Who knows, "no 60" models in Pioneer's 2009 lineup" doesn't rule out a 58", though it would be hard to believe there won't be one bigger than that too.

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/04/21/afx4915560.html


I don't like the sound of "Under the merger plan to be announced later this week, Matsushita will receive Pioneer's plasma panel technology and incorporate it into its own high-definition panels, the business daily said."
So is it official that the glass is all that will be shared with panasonic?

Did you guys see this yet???

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/04/24/pioneer-panasonic-reach-basic-agreement-on-kuro-production-fir/

That sounds like a 9G delay. :eek:

That sounds like a 9G delay. :eek:

They will be on time. Don't Worry.

I don't like the sound of "Under the merger plan to be announced later this week, Matsushita will receive Pioneer's plasma panel technology and incorporate it into its own high-definition panels, the business daily said."
So is it official that the glass is all that will be shared with panasonic?No offense but what is your obsession with this? What does it even matter?


ron

That sounds like a 9G delay.

9G has nothing to do with the Pioneer-Panasonic relationship. 9G is all in-house for Pioneer.

Well, color me confused about the whole mess as the article references a delay until fall for some models...I thought any fall models from Pioneer were part of 9G.

Doh, that's fall of 2009. I'm losing track of the years.

I think this is two companies in the same business taking advantage of economies of scale much like other companies the world over. It's not like any product you buy (from your computer to your car) is made with 100% in house manufactured proprietary technology. Certain parts of a product it makes sense to outsource due to economics and the fact that what you outsource usually isn't the "Proprietary Heart" of your product.

I am really befuddled about the clamoring over this news. This happens everyday. Heck, do you think that different brands of golf balls don't get their covering from the same manufacturing plant? Sure, then they work their proprietary majic to the dimple layout, etc. Thats what will make the ball go farther. This is just a theoretical example.

I think it's great that Plasma manufacturers are stepping up to do battle with LCD. Both techs improving and competing pushes PQ up for the consumer.

No offense but what is your obsession with this? What does it even matter?


ron

No obsession. I am just wondering if its a good thing for pioneer. Im not making a big deal about it or anything. Either way the 9G will be all pioneer.
If its just the glass technology being shared then its no big deal. But if Panasonic gets the rights to the components that make a Kuro a kuro then that could spell trouble. So far it doesn't sound like that will happen. Thats why I asked the questiion. I am curious about it. Not trying to say what will happen. I just like to keep up with the news and this is the best place to ask questions about this. If you consider that to be obsessive then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you read into things a little too much.

we sit right in front of windows, so i'm hoping glare isn't too bad. it's not a super sunny spot since the windows face north, and we're in an alcove.

where we sit:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0760.jpg

the stand, 9 feet away (waiting for the 5020):

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/DSCN0761.jpg

just got the Harman Kardon speaker set today - that woofer is massive!

^^ Nice stand. A few comments:

1. Is it so well ventilated that you can have a Wii + 360 in there with the door closed?
2. How tall is it? I recall, for example, the 60 inch Kuro required max 18 inches (else the centre of the screen is too high).
3. Did you gut out the Sony and turn it into a microwave oven or something? :)
4. The couch seems to be dipping a bit in the middle. You might want to check it out.
5. Speaking of couch, that radiator is too close isn't it? Roast either your head or foot depending on which direction you lay.

haha. alright, answers:

1. it's very well ventilated (it's the Altra stand from Best Buy in case you were wondering) - it has vent hole drilled in the wood all along the back bottom edge as well as the back top edge on the cardboard backing. Also, the Wii and 360 will never both be running at the same time.

2. it's 25-26" tall i think. the Kuro will be just barely taller than my current Sony 27". i have that sitting on a pillowcase so it won't scratch the finish on the stand in the meantime.

3. Ha, no - i don't know what was on TV but I just took a random pic. My camera sucks.

4. Yes, the cushions are already losing their thickness after 2 months. blah. might have to look into new foam.

5. yep, no choice here in my apartment. It's the absolute only place possible for the couch. oh apartment living.......... i'm ready for a nice condo. :)

on the left side i've got a Tivo HD (with a Linksys 600n router and a MyDVR expander on top of it out of view), a Samsung BDP-1400 Blu-ray, and a Sony HTIB AVR from 5 years ago that is awaiting a Onkyo 606 replacement.

on the right side i've got a 360, Wii, and a Newpoint Home Theater Protector 12-port underneath that (pretty lights)

center is two drawers that hold all my games and controllers, and top mid is a mesh cover for the center speaker where I also house my cable modem.

here's a pic of my previous setup just a couple weeks ago:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/shadowravenz/SetUp.jpg

I like your new setup much better, and just right for a large screen display. This design looks a bit similar to one I'm considering from Diamondcase (TT-400). All I need to do is add a Pioneer 60"er on top, w/a new Elite Pioneer Receiver & new BR Player, and place the J.Salk Songtowers all around the room!..:D

What does all that have to do with the 9G Kuros? :confused:

There will be no 60" models in Pioneer's 2009 lineup.

Here are some that come to mind: 58, 65.
I hoping for an 80 with street price of $10K.

- Rich

What does all that have to do with the 9G Kuros? :confused:

that spot where the TV is in my pic? that's where a 9G Kuro is going.

sorry if you felt a hijack. i now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

If you've been waiting for that new Kuro projector, this article is for you:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/04/25/pioneer-gets-official-with-its-1080p-kuro-krf-9000fd-projector/

holy crap. $12K?

holy crap. $12K?

It'll probably be much less here in the states but still...............

I think I'll stick to the plasmas.:cool:

It'll probably be much less here in the states but still...............

I think I'll stick to the plasmas.:cool:

I think it's a rebadged JVC-DLA-RS2 Which has a MSRP of $7995.00 in the USA.

It's interesting Meridian is rebadging it too for $14,995.00.

I don't know if either company has any added value.

Hi everyone,

I have an unusual problem. I'm moving to a great house this summer with TWO prime TV/movie watching areas. The current owner has Pioneer 7th generation plasmas in both the main level family room (50") and the lower level (60"). The lower level has very nice Boston Acoustics in-wall and in-ceiling speakers with separate subwoofer (6.1 configuration) that are all staying with the house. Presently the current owner will be taking both plasmas and his main level speakers with him to Canada.

The lower level is my choice for the new 9G Pioneer Elite Kuro (I was saving for a front-projector, which isn't compatible with this house, so I'm splurging for "el primo" here. I have two dilemmas here:

1) There is a possibility I can purchase the 50" plasma from the current owner. If I do, will I be maddeningly bothered by the difference between the 7G and 9G panels? I'd hate to drive myself crazy every time I tried to watch TV in the living room.

2) I'm not sure how to break up my current equipment to maintain the best quality in both locations. I have:
Two HD-A2 HD-DVD players
One PS3 game console/Blu-Ray player
Onkyo 605 receiver
Denon AVR-3805 receiver
Denon DVD-2900 DVD Audio&Video/SACD player
Polk Audio LSi speaker system (two LSi15 mains, one LSi-C center, four LSiFX surrounds, one PSW-1000 subwoofer)

The issues here: the HD-A2's only do high-resolution audio through HDMI, which the Onkyo receiver supports, but the Denon does not. The Polk Audio speakers are 4 ohms, which the Onkyo receiver does not support, but the Denon does. The Denon receiver does make great sound with the LSi's, but cannot be used with any high-resolution source that I own. I nearly bought the Samsung combo player, which has 7.1 analog outlets, but the poor reviews gave me second thoughts. So what do you all suggest, should I:
A) buy a new receiver capable of the high resolution audio through HDMI for the living room and sell the Denon.
B) buy a new Blu-ray player capable of 7.1 analog output to use with the Denon I currently own in the living room.
C) find one of the remaining Samsung combo players (which has 7.1 for both Blu-ray and HD-DVD) and pray for firmware relief of the remaining bugs.
D) do something else that I haven't thought of...


I appreciate your thoughts and feedback. Thanks in advance everyone!

Kevin

Hi everyone,

I have an unusual problem. I'm moving to a great house this summer with TWO prime TV/movie watching areas. The current owner has Pioneer 7th generation plasmas in both the main level family room (50") and the lower level (60"). The lower level has very nice Boston Acoustics in-wall and in-ceiling speakers with separate subwoofer (6.1 configuration) that are all staying with the house. Presently the current owner will be taking both plasmas and his main level speakers with him to Canada.

The lower level is my choice for the new 9G Pioneer Elite Kuro (I was saving for a front-projector, which isn't compatible with this house, so I'm splurging for "el primo" here. I have two dilemmas here:

1) There is a possibility I can purchase the 50" plasma from the current owner. If I do, will I be maddeningly bothered by the difference between the 7G and 9G panels? I'd hate to drive myself crazy every time I tried to watch TV in the living room.

2) I'm not sure how to break up my current equipment to maintain the best quality in both locations. I have:
Two HD-A2 HD-DVD players
One PS3 game console/Blu-Ray player
Onkyo 605 receiver
Denon AVR-3805 receiver
Denon DVD-2900 DVD Audio&Video/SACD player
Polk Audio LSi speaker system (two LSi15 mains, one LSi-C center, four LSiFX surrounds, one PSW-1000 subwoofer)

The issues here: the HD-A2's only do high-resolution audio through HDMI, which the Onkyo receiver supports, but the Denon does not. The Polk Audio speakers are 4 ohms, which the Onkyo receiver does not support, but the Denon does. The Denon receiver does make great sound with the LSi's, but cannot be used with any high-resolution source that I own. I nearly bought the Samsung combo player, which has 7.1 analog outlets, but the poor reviews gave me second thoughts. So what do you all suggest, should I:
A) buy a new receiver capable of the high resolution audio through HDMI for the living room and sell the Denon.
B) buy a new Blu-ray player capable of 7.1 analog output to use with the Denon I currently own in the living room.
C) find one of the remaining Samsung combo players (which has 7.1 for both Blu-ray and HD-DVD) and pray for firmware relief of the remaining bugs.
D) do something else that I haven't thought of...


I appreciate your thoughts and feedback. Thanks in advance everyone!

Kevin

I'm no expert but i think you will be bothered. Sure the 7G pioneers were good for their time, but considering what happened with the 8G and what will happen with the 9G, i think it may be in your best interests to get the new one.

I was a sports bar actually and they had some older Pioneer sets (although they were transitioning to LCD now, since they probably see it as more cost effective and easier to keep them up) and i got to say they didnt look so hot, and whats funny was it wasnt because of the newer LCD's in the rest of the place, but age + all the better newer Pioneers i had been seeing.

I'd go nuts with the difference! Just throw in the extra cost with the mortgage!

7g is no Kuro! I'd be kicking myself if I bought a 7g when I could have an 8g, or a 9g in June.

I'd go nuts with the difference! Just throw in the extra cost with the mortgage!

Not exactly a good investment. AV gear depreciates even more rapidly than cars. I don't even like putting it on credit. I can't imagine putting it in my mortgage. At least you could say it was somewhat tax deductible.

I think it's a rebadged JVC-DLA-RS2 Which has a MSRP of $7995.00 in the USA.

It's interesting Meridian is rebadging it too for $14,995.00.

I don't know if either company has any added value.


I agree that it must be a rebagded RS2. For the price listed there must be some significant processing added into the mix or a big upgrade on the lense. Otherwise, this will be a really tough pj to market.

I think it's a rebadged JVC-DLA-RS2 Which has a MSRP of $7995.00 in the USA.

It's interesting Meridian is rebadging it too for $14,995.00.

I don't know if either company has any added value.

I believe Pioneer is including technical training for the new Elite front projector so we'll soon find out if they made any upgrades. I'll be attending all of the classes and intend on being an honor student and getting an A+ grade.

-Robert

7g is no Kuro! I'd be kicking myself if I bought a 7g when I could have an 8g, or a 9g in June.

Remember, I have TWO areas to cover--I can't afford two KUROs. Especially since I might be able to trade $700 of used AV gear toward the 7G Pioneer and only be out ~$1000 out of pocket. Given that the panel is already installed with a wall mount, it seems like a good deal. Otherwise I have to buy a new panel, mount, etc.

My bigger panel (60") WILL be a KURO (and ELITE at that!) :D

Does anyone have any thoughts about the second part (which stuff goes where?)

Kevin

I suspect the Elite Kuro is what you'll be doing most of your TV viewing on. You should get all your best components together (Elite, HD-DVD, PS3 and the Polks), buy a new receiver that sounds good with the Polks and can accept High-res audio through HDMI and put 'em all the area that's best for watching TV.

I suspect the Elite Kuro is what you'll be doing most of your TV viewing on. You should get all your best components together (Elite, HD-DVD, PS3 and the Polks), buy a new receiver that sounds good with the Polks and can accept High-res audio through HDMI and put 'em all the area that's best for watching TV.

In that case, what do I do about the built-in Boston Acoustics speakers? :confused: They are also good speakers from what I've read, though I haven't auditioned them yet. The actual model numbers are:

6.1 Boston Home Theater Speaker Package
Front L / R: (2) VRi580
Center: (1) VRi553
Surrounds: (2) VRi585T2 + (1) VRi585
Subwoofer: (1) PV-700

Kevin

UK prices for g9 kuros.

Mail from KrishAV:

G9 - yes have pricing:
price will be:

LX5090 - £2200.00
LX5090H - £2400.00

for comparison the price of the 508xd is 1650.00 so the new models are pretty cheap!

UK prices for g9 kuros.

Mail from KrishAV:

G9 - yes have pricing:
price will be:

LX5090 - £2200.00
LX5090H - £2400.00

I find that pretty hard to believe. That'd be even about 500 Euros lower
than the supposed prices for Germany and those were doubted by many.
Of course I'd be the last to complain if they turned out to be true, heheh.

MSRP pricing is only allowed on the forum :)

MSRP pricing is only allowed on the forum :)

Roman, let's not spoil the candy store. Carry on...

Remember, I have TWO areas to cover--I can't afford two KUROs. Especially since I might be able to trade $700 of used AV gear toward the 7G Pioneer and only be out ~$1000 out of pocket. Given that the panel is already installed with a wall mount, it seems like a good deal. Otherwise I have to buy a new panel, mount, etc.

My bigger panel (60") WILL be a KURO (and ELITE at that!) :D

Does anyone have any thoughts about the second part (which stuff goes where?)

Kevin

Maybe you could find a great deal on an 8G instead. And have that while you wait for the 9G.

i know no one has seen them in person, but i'm just wondering if anyone might have info that would give me a reason to go for the 5020 over the 5010. any tech reasons besides "blacker blacks" that would be a must-have.

also, between the 5010 and the panny 50pz800u (or 50pz850u).

just pricing and trying to justify the added cost and wait. thanks :)

I believe Pioneer is including technical training for the new Elite front projector so we'll soon find out if they made any upgrades. I'll be attending all of the classes and intend on being an honor student and getting an A+ grade.

-Robert

Robert, we expect nothing less than a PhD from you! Please submit your thesis to us for review. :D

I've noticed this theme before speculating about where the secret sauce for KURO lies.
For those who think the "glass" is not important, please GOOGLE the patents Pioneer applied for: The "glass" has fewer layers, and a hidden precharge site that keeps the glow out of view from the user.

It certainly IS the glass. And Pioneer owns the patent!

anybody know what week in May the Pioneer road show will begin?

and who is allowed to attend these shows?

I've noticed this theme before speculating about where the secret sauce for KURO lies.
For those who think the "glass" is not important, please GOOGLE the patents Pioneer applied for: The "glass" has fewer layers, and a hidden precharge site that keeps the glow out of view from the user.

It certainly IS the glass. And Pioneer owns the patent!

There has been much conjecture and even I believe the full extent of the merging is not known, Perhaps even by D-Nice.

Personally, I believe they will be using common glass and there will be at least some Panasonic models with the same black level performance and single glass. Video processing will be company specific. Pioneer will offer sizes that are a subset of those offered by Panasonic. From my perspective, it is all good.

This is not biggie for me, since I am not upgrading my Panasonic 657UY until there is a panel at least as large with damn near perfect black levels. Meaning, 2009.

- Rich

Personally, I believe they will be using common glass and there will be at least some Panasonic models with the same black level performance and single glass.
- Rich

I certiny hope not. Blacklevel performance is one of the key factors that set pioneer apart from the rest (Thats where the word "kuro" comes into play).
It doesn't make any sense to me that Pioneer would give away technology that helps create pioneers awesome black levels.
Personally I hope that panasonic will just be building pioneer panels to pioneer spec.
I have read a few articles that suggest that Panasonic will be adopting pioneers "infinite black" concept. Who knows if its true or not, but it seems strange that pioneer would do so much great work improving black levels just to hand the technology over to a compediitor.
Either way though, the end result will be the same, we will still have the technology in our homes which totally rocks.

I've noticed this theme before speculating about where the secret sauce for KURO lies.
For those who think the "glass" is not important, please GOOGLE the patents Pioneer applied for: The "glass" has fewer layers, and a hidden precharge site that keeps the glow out of view from the user.

It certainly IS the glass. And Pioneer owns the patent!

Nobody said the glass wasn't important.....

The glass is very important in delivering those deep blacks the Kuros are known for, but it isn't the only thing. The circuitry behind the glass plays a big part in those blacks too. When Panasonic starts making glass for Pioneer, they will be making it to Pioneer's specs, they're not just going to send Pioneer some spare PZ700Us. They'll be making what Pioneer wants and they'll be making it at much lower cost than Pioneer can.

It's all about economy of scale. Pioneer had limited manufacturing capabilities, Panasonic will be able to pump out 2 million panels a month when it's new plant at Amagasaki goes online in 2009. 2 million a month! That's more than Pioneer made in an entire year!

Nobody said the glass wasn't important.....

The glass is very important in delivering those deep blacks the Kuros are known for, but it isn't the only thing. The circuitry behind the glass plays a big part in those blacks too.

Quite true. I pointed this out before, but here's the deal:

1. When the TV is powered on, the deep blacks actually take about 15 seconds to kick in (you'll notice it suddenly gets darker).
2. The Blacks are much better when HDMI is set to VIDEO as opposed to PC mode.
3. The 'blotch' only happens in VIDEO mode, not PC mode. Seems to be related to processing.

Makes you wonder, if Pioneer's LCDs are going to benefit from such processing.

Wasn't the blotching just a manufacturing defect that was fixed a while ago?

It's all about economy of scale. Pioneer had limited manufacturing capabilities, Panasonic will be able to pump out 2 million panels a month when it's new plant at Amagasaki goes online in 2009. 2 million a month! That's more than Pioneer made in an entire year!

Wow, thats sound good to me.
I would bet that with pioneer being able to produce so much faster, that prices will go down.
And also, we might see pioneer plasmas in more stores and online dealers.
I noticed a while back that Crutchfiled does not sell pioneer plasmas. So I called them to find out why. They said it was due to the fact that Pioneer has a hard time meeting ship dates and they had to drop them becasue of it.
I would love to see pioneer plasmas on crutchfield. Sony financial has the 1 year no payments no interest deal on crutchfiield. And the TV does not have to be a sony TV.
I would love to finance a new Kuro like that in the future.

anybody know what week in May the Pioneer road show will begin?

and who is allowed to attend these shows?

Pioneer's annual dealer meeting this year is May 13-15. Very select Elite dealers are invited. I believe it is 30 to 40 dealers that are among the top key Elite dealers in the country.

Product training is among the items on the agenda. I have been invited and will post much of what I have learned.

-Robert

Wasn't the blotching just a manufacturing defect that was fixed a while ago?

According to D-Nice, but I can assure you, it blotched only at HDMI=Video.
Anyone with blotching, just set your HDMI to PC and it'll go away (but the
blacks won't be as deep).

Pioneer's video processing and color filters are also key elements and critical components that make the panels image quality and detail clearly superior to all other panels.

-Robert

Thank you Robert!

That point is lost on many people who think that the 2009 Pioneers will be inferior to 8Gs and 9Gs because Panasonic is making the glass.

HDPeeT, El Gusto Es Mio!

-Robert

Are we still expecting the NA Press Release from this road show (or the week leading up to the show) that will detail MSRP and availability?

I've noticed this theme before speculating about where the secret sauce for KURO lies.
For those who think the "glass" is not important, please GOOGLE the patents Pioneer applied for: The "glass" has fewer layers, and a hidden precharge site that keeps the glow out of view from the user.

It certainly IS the glass. And Pioneer owns the patent!Not sure the "hidden precharge" is/will ever be used by Pioneer. The cavity you see in all the Pioneer cell pictures is due to the waffle rib structer and not a precharge area. Pioneer's glass secrets revolve more around material science than structure (except for deep encased cell...etc). And the driving waveform's are as big a part of Pioneer's performance than the glass is.

Are we still expecting the NA Press Release from this road show (or the week leading up to the show) that will detail MSRP and availability?

Yes, one day next week Pioneer will have a series of press releases with limited information on the new product lines.

-Robert

I certiny hope not. Blacklevel performance is one of the key factors that set pioneer apart from the rest (Thats where the word "kuro" comes into play).
It doesn't make any sense to me that Pioneer would give away technology that helps create pioneers awesome black levels.
Personally I hope that panasonic will just be building pioneer panels to pioneer spec.
I have read a few articles that suggest that Panasonic will be adopting pioneers "infinite black" concept. Who knows if its true or not, but it seems strange that pioneer would do so much great work improving black levels just to hand the technology over to a compediitor.
Either way though, the end result will be the same, we will still have the technology in our homes which totally rocks.

What does make sense when you are losing money on each panel made;)
You make a deal that is good for both companies.

- Rich

Yes, one day next week Pioneer will have a series of press releases with limited information on the new product lines.

"This year we will launch a new series of Plasma displays. They will be available in various sizes." :D

You forgot.... "and they'll be available for purchase"

You forgot.... "and they'll be available for purchase"

Now you're really pushing it. :D

Robert is correct on these things being very fluid.

For instance I still have not received a reconfirmation that the 9Gs will have tru2way capability. I know optivity is still waiting on this information....I haven't forgotten about you good ol' sparing buddy.:)

I find that pretty hard to believe. That'd be even about 500 Euros lower
than the supposed prices for Germany and those were doubted by many.
Of course I'd be the last to complain if they turned out to be true, heheh.
it is the price i have been promised so guess again!

BUMP

Anyone else feel like this should be the main thread for 9g info until we get an official one? It seems to me this one has the most important info......

Roman, are you now able to sell the Elites?

Where is everybody? Is there once again another 9G thread??

they're waiting quietly. no news.

Roman, are you now able to sell the Elites?

Have to follow the rules so cant post sales questions or answers :)

roman........where did the avs text links go ?? for buybestplasma, cleveland plasma and axxis audio??

roman........where did the avs text links go ?? for buybestplasma, cleveland plasma and axxis audio??

yeah I noticed this as well. What happened?

Luckily I have already bookmarked Roman's website for future use.:D

I saw Roman's ad at the top of the page earlier, I don't know where Axxis and Cleveland Plasma are though?

roman........where did the avs text links go ?? for buybestplasma, cleveland plasma and axxis audio??

You can see my banner up top now flashing :) I am not sure what will happen with the bottom banners, I think it is getting worked out.

Roman, how come we have no more info from Germany? The new kuros were displayed eh?

Specifically, do you have any knowledge regarding the Wlan and its video based server menu and support? Any hard drive or external media rumours?

THX Paul

I have not heard of any details I think we will know more in a couple of weeks.

Specifically, do you have any knowledge regarding the Wlan and its video based server menu and support? Any hard drive or external media rumours?

I posted something about this. The models with an integrated hard drive seem not to be coming out after all. The slimmer models with an external media box will be out this fall. The new menu for videos, pictures and sound files works quite nicely but I don't think there's any wireless functionality - it's all ethernet based I think.

I had heard that with the 8th generations, the elites had a slightly diferent filter that improved black levels a bit.
Is this the case with the 9th generation or will the elites and the no-elites have the same filter?
If they are the same, what are the main differences between the elites and non-elites?
The reason I ask is becasue I do not intend on getting my 9th gen professionally calibrated. I had heard that the elites have calibration tools embedded into the settings. If I don't intend on using these features, what other benefits would there be for me to get a pro-151fd as opposed to just a pdp-6020fd??

I added some links and info on the 9th gens and other pioneer news to the first page of this thread in case anyone has questions or just wants to check it out.

-Thasnk Chadmak09

Does anyone know if the new elites are in flat or glossy black? I am trying to pick out component stands and the OmniMount set I am looking at is available in both flat and glossy black...don't know which one to get. Thanks!

I had heard that with the 8th generations, the elites had a slightly diferent filter that improved black levels a bit.
Is this the case with the 9th generation or will the elites and the no-elites have the same filter?
If they are the same, what are the main differences between the elites and non-elites?
The reason I ask is becasue I do not intend on getting my 9th gen professionally calibrated. I had heard that the elites have calibration tools embedded into the settings. If I don't intend on using these features, what other benefits would there be for me to get a pro-151fd as opposed to just a pdp-6020fd??

Differences related to PQ that matter:

1. Colorspace2 option - *BIG* difference! Better for movies - looks more theatrical like than TV-like.
2. Discrete colour settings - another big difference.
3. Discrete Gamma settings - probably one of the most important differences. Allows an awesome range of colour temperatures.

There are other differences, but those ones seem to stand out. By the way,
I wouldn't knock professional calibration on an Elite. I had my 150 calibrated
last year and it made a huge difference. The nice thing is, the changes are
not global, so you are free to use other TV modes as you desire. With a non-
elite, calibration changes that affect colour are global as they have to be
done in the service menu instead of user menu. That's huge, as there are
some things that benefit calibration (movies!!!!) while other things that are
best kept alone (sports).

I've mentioned this in another thread, but if you are considering the 9G, then
the rumoured $500 difference between the non-elite and the elite makes it a
no-brainer, IMHO. There are just too many differences between the 2. I own
a 4280 and Pro-150FD, and as much as I love the 4280, it feels totally vanilla
(in terms of PQ features) compared to the 150. Yeah, there's the size/resolution
difference, but even still, the quality of the picture is totally different because of
the missing features.

Does anyone know if the new elites are in flat or glossy black? I am trying to pick out component stands and the OmniMount set I am looking at is available in both flat and glossy black...don't know which one to get. Thanks!
glossy

roman........where did the avs text links go ?? for buybestplasma, cleveland plasma and axxis audio??
we have competitive pricing ;)
I saw Roman's ad at the top of the page earlier, I don't know where Axxis and Cleveland Plasma are though?
They are fixed now.


They are back at the bottom of the pages now. All fixed.

Right now there are THREE separate threads dealing with the new 9G Pioneer plasmas on the front page of this forum. Someone please either merge them or lock two of them so all new posts can go into the remaining thread.

Thanks!

D-NICE will make a real thread soon.

Why not just make a real (or "official") thread now and update the first post later?

Why not just make a real (or "official") thread now and update the first post later?

D-NICE?

Right now there are THREE separate threads dealing with the new 9G Pioneer plasmas on the front page of this forum. Someone please either merge them or lock two of them so all new posts can go into the remaining thread.

Thanks!

I created this first.
For some reason the others made new ones to display the same info again. This one probably has the most info in it.
.

I would also like to add that not only has this thread been open longer, but it has the most pages of information, the largest number of Replies and posts, and almost 100,000 Hits.
Its up to you guys but maybe this thread would be the better one to continue.
Thans,
Chadmak09

Plus, this thread has a cool looking first page. lol

Ahhh.
I need to calm down. All this thinking of the 9th Gen's has my blood pressure pumping.
The last thing I need is a heart attack. Then I won't be alive to get a 9th Gen Kuro.
And that would be the trajedy of all trajedys.
But I WANT MY 9th GEN KURO!!!!!
I can just imagine seeing that beautiful baby sitting on my entertainment center looking back at me. We are a match made in heaven.
uh oh, blood pressure rising again..........calming down again.
I don't know if I can take all this. lol

please...

no coupons/ no price talk other than MSRP...no kidding

AVS is for tech talk only

Sorry Mark it was MSRP I was talking about confirmation of MSRP and shipping in June .
my fault on early order discount. I was so excited to see it didnt think straight when posting

I would also like to add that not only has this thread been open longer, but it has the most pages of information, the largest number of Replies and posts, and almost 100,000 Hits.
Its up to you guys but maybe this thread would be the better one to continue.
Thans,
Chadmak09

I agree, this thread has the most info in it.

This should be the go-to thread until the 9Gs arrive and D- makes an official sticky.

Does anyone know if any Forum Sponsors are taking pre-orders yet??

We are hoping to have spec's the end of the week or the first of the following. Pioneer has their tour this week and should be making their announcements. We should be hearing from them very soon. Pre orders are just around the corner.

We are hoping to have spec's the end of the week or the first of the following. Pioneer has their tour this week and should be making their announcements. We should be hearing from them very soon. Pre orders are just around the corner.

:):):):) Dancing with Joy:):):):)

is it even realistic to think i'll have a 5020 for around 3k in my home before july 1st?????

Man I hope so. I am not sure about the price but from the way everyone is talking we should be able to have a 9th Gen Kuro in our homes by july. If they are in fact being released in June that is.

is it even realistic to think i'll have a 5020 for around 3k in my home before july 1st?????

about 5 posts above yours, a Mod says no price talk other than MSRP...

Are the 9G Kuro's releasing in June, does it mean we can buy them around
first week of June. Saw the Tweeter announcement for Memorial day sale,
does that mean they will have in stock at that time.

I live in bay area, CA and we don't have Tweeter store, will be ordering
through one of the forum sponsors. My 10 year old 53 inch Rear Projection TV
in family room died, so I am without TV for now. Just trying to get an
assesment so that I can make an appropriate call on whether to pull the
trigger on 8G or wait for 9G. 3-4 weeks wait is ok, but 2 plus months is
going to push it.

Thanks
Raj

Yup should have it in your hands by mid to late-June. I for one am glad the wait has come to near end and we have confirmation of pricing . Just waiting on sponsers to get their pricing to order

Tweeter is advertising list price for the 111FD as $5000 and the 151FD as $6000, saying they arrive in June. That's the earliest confirmation on list price I've seen.

Not trying to be rude so please don't take this the wrong way, But
Guys please stop putting prices in the thread.
MSRP only.
Myself and alot of other forum members have put a large amount of good information in this thread which has been helpfull to alot of people.
The last thing we want is to have this thread locked.
Please Please Please no prices

Not trying to be rude so please don't take this the wrong way, But
Guys please stop putting prices in the thread.
MSRP only.
Myself and alot of other forum members have put a large amount of good information in this thread which has been helpfull to alot of people.
The last thing we want is to have this thread locked.
Please Please Please no prices

chad,
I believe these are MSRP prices and not street prices...

Chris

Not trying to be rude so please don't take this the wrong way, But
Guys please stop putting prices in the thread.
MSRP only.
Myself and alot of other forum members have put a large amount of good information in this thread which has been helpfull to alot of people.
The last thing we want is to have this thread locked.
Please Please Please no prices

The big T's website is advertising that price. What's wrong with the post?

chad,
I believe these are MSRP prices and not street prices...

Chris

Ok,
My bad then.
I thought that the MSRP for the 151fd was 6500. They must have changed it.
my bad.
Sorry

Yes, it seems those Tweeter prices ARE MSRP. You have to subtract their sale price yourself, it was one of those "Before $XXX's off" things. I assume the flyer was modded because he didn't 'shop out that fine print.



Not trying to be rude so please don't take this the wrong way, But
Guys please stop putting prices in the thread.
MSRP only.
Myself and alot of other forum members have put a large amount of good information in this thread which has been helpfull to alot of people.
The last thing we want is to have this thread locked.
Please Please Please no prices

Ok,
My bad then.
I thought that the MSRP for the 151fd was 6500. They must have changed it.
my bad.
Sorry

No problem...Everyone is just over excited on the launch and anticipation of these displays. Should be remarkable in every sense of the word...

Chris

any one of the forums sponsors offer six months or 12 months interest free financing with qualified credit?

Why not just make a real (or "official") thread now and update the first post later?

+1

I will gladly pay you Tuesday for Kuro today! :)

+1

The official thread will probably be made when the 9th gens are released. I am sure D-nice will make one then.
Until then, I think this should be the thread to use since its the largest, oldest, and has more info than the others. But the others have some good stuff too. but mostly just a copy of what was already in this thread.

The big T's website is advertising that price. What's wrong with the post?
What's wrong with the post is that it's against forum policy to talk about anything other than MSRP prices. Everyone should read the Special Posting Rules for Display Forums [no price talk] (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/announcement.php?f=167&a=119) thread (the very first thread in the forum marked as an Announcement...).

What's wrong with the post is that it's against forum policy to talk about anything other than MSRP prices. Everyone should read the Special Posting Rules for Display Forums [no price talk] (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/announcement.php?f=167&a=119) thread (the very first thread in the forum marked as an Announcement...).

The prices on the website and in the post are MSRP. That's my point.

The prices on the website and in the post are MSRP. That's my point.
There's more to it than that though - did you read the post I linked to?

"1) Do Not post pricing you found on-line or at a local dealer.
6) Do Not Discus where to buy a TV."

I'm not saying that I agree 100% with the rules (in fact, I don't), but they are what they are and if people continue to ignore them, posts will get deleted or (worse) the thread will get locked.

I feel that discussion of where to buy a TV has lots of value even if price cannot be discussed. The obvious example is discussion of how satisfied people are (or aren't) with the sales people and customer service. It's pretty useful to know that vendor X has great customer service while vendor Y is impossible to work with.

I got a question.
When Panasonic starts building Pioneers glass, will the entire Pioneer Television be assembled by panasonic or will the glass be shipped from panasonic to pioneer and then the entire Television wiill be assembled by pioneer?
I think I heard that the glass will be built by panasonic and then shipped back to Pioneer and then Pioneer will do the assembly. But I had someone today tell me that both Panasonic and Pioneers are going to be assembled together. I told him I think he is wrong but not totally sure. I know this question does not have any relevance to the 9th gen's but I did not want to start a new thread to ask this.

I got a question.
When Panasonic starts building Pioneers glass, will the entire Pioneer Television be assembled by panasonic or will the glass be shipped from panasonic to pioneer and then the entire Television wiill be assembled by pioneer?
I think I heard that the glass will be built by panasonic and then shipped back to Pioneer and then Pioneer will do the assembly. But I had someone today tell me that both Panasonic and Pioneers are going to be assembled together. I told him I think he is wrong but not totally sure. I know this question does not have any relevance to the 9th gen's but I did not want to start a new thread to ask this.

Just the glass is made at Panasonic, everything else is Pioneer including assembly.

Just the glass is made at Panasonic, everything else is Pioneer including assembly.

Thats what I thought.
The amount of Misinformation that these sales guys at Bestbuy/Circuit city are spewing is out of control.
I was at bestbuy today looking at the 800u and a sales guy came to talk to me. I said that I preferr the 5010 to the new 50 inch 800u, and I went on to say how the 9th generations will be great and so on.
He said that Pioneer is going to stop making plasmas and that panasonic will be making them and that Panasonic will be a kuro-equivalent next year.
I told him that it was only the glass that was being made by Panasonic. He then called two of his other best buy employee buddys over and all of them tried to tell me I was wrong and that next year a pioneer will be exactly the same as a Panasonic and the only difference was that Panasonic would be "Stamping" the Pioneer name on the television. I just laughed and left.
The I walked next door to Circuit city to look at the new Samsung LCD's (650) and they were playing spiderman 3 on the Panasonic 800u so I watched it a little. But after sitting there for about 5 minutes their salesman came to ask me if I need anything. I asked him if he has heard anything about wht circuit city doesn't sell Pioneers and this guy started spewing the same bull about Pioneeer getting out of the plasma buisness, etc. blah blah blah.
I didn't even waste my time to correct him, I just left the TV section and went to the stereo area.
It's these sales guys who don't know much and relay rumors to customers that are driving first time HDTV buyer into buying LCD instead of plasma.

The I walked next door to Circuit city to look at the new Samsung LCD's (650) and they were playing spiderman 3 on the Panasonic 800u so I watched it a little. But after sitting there for about 5 minutes their salesman came to ask me if I need anything. I asked him if he has heard anything about wht circuit city doesn't sell Pioneers and this guy started spewing the same bull about Pioneeer getting out of the plasma buisness, etc. blah blah blah.


It's funny, I was at Circuit City today to check out the PZ800 (they didn't have them in yet) and asked the salesman why they don't carry Pioneer, he said "Well, all Pioneer's this year are being made by Panasonic so there's no point in buying a Pioneer".........................

i don't expect every salesman to know everything, but come on - get a handle on your products. at the very least the manager should know the skinny and trickle it down. i think that's less of a sales pitch and more misinformation that is floating around.

i don't expect every salesman to know everything, but come on - get a handle on your products. at the very least the manager should know the skinny and trickle it down. i think that's less of a sales pitch and more misinformation that is floating around.

Misinformation to get you to buy the product they sell. I don't know why retailers insist on pushing LCD over plasma at the same screen size but they don't hesitate to mention burn-in or other "Plasma Myths" to scare people away from it.

Hopefully things will change as the average size of the HDTVs people buy increases to 50" where Plasma has a strong foothold. LCD had a head start with the almighty 1080p resolution, but now that plasma isn't playing catchup, I think they'll do pretty good in the 50" market.

i don't expect every salesman to know everything, but come on - get a handle on your products. at the very least the manager should know the skinny and trickle it down.

Dont bet on it. Avs member are far more informed 95% of the time vs salesman and managers at cc and bb. They dont know what's comming and going. To top it off some try to act like they know more than you. That's the best part.

Misinformation to get you to buy the product they sell. I don't know why retailers insist on pushing LCD over plasma at the same screen size but they don't hesitate to mention burn-in or other "Plasma Myths" to scare people away from it.

Hopefully things will change as the average size of the HDTVs people buy increases to 50" where Plasma has a strong foothold. LCD had a head start with the almighty 1080p resolution, but now that plasma isn't playing catchup, I think they'll do pretty good in the 50" market.

Exactly.
Sometimes I wonder if these guys really know the truth and just make up some of these crazy things they say to sell you the televisions with the highest profit margins.
I know I was making the Bestbuy salesman mad today. At the end of just about every sentence he said I would say "No that is incorrect" and "wrong".
I just can't help it. There have been a few times that I have overheard these guys selling the BS to other customers that actually believe them and I could not help myself from jumping into thier conversation and telling the poor customers that the information that the salesman is giving them is wrong. One time the salesman got so mad his face got all red and he ran to his computer to try to find some proof to show me that he was right but strangly he never came back to talk to me. And now when i go there and he sees me he makes it a point to stay away from me.lol.
It kiills me how these guys are. I don't know much about TV tech but what little I do know is alot more than these guys know. And its thier job to know and its not mine. Thats the sad part

By the way, I know this is off topic but Do any of you guys play Call of duty 4 online with your PS3??
I am trying to find some buddys to play some matches with. If so add me to your buddy players. My PS3 name is Chadmak09 also.

I apologize for going on a tangent here, but I just want to say that I agree with you guys about Best Buy HT employees for the most part. And that's saying something, as I am a BB employee myself. I'm pretty confident that I know more than most of them, even though I work in a different dept, mostly thanks to this forum :)
I think the problem is that the "training" that BB employees go through is not adequate enough for something like HT - it's just enough for them to know the main selling points of the products. And many of them are biased towards LCDs because, well, they see them on a daily basis in the store and the LCDs appear brighter and seem to have a more "wow factor". Of course AVS forum members know that this isn't an accurate representation of what ppl would see in their homes, but I doubt most of my co-workers think that way (with the exception of the Magnolia employees). Anyway I just wanted to get this off my chest and let ppl here know that not ALL BB employees are clueless ;)
Now back to the 9G Kuro's!!!

I apologize for going on a tangent here, but I just want to say that I agree with you guys about Best Buy HT employees for the most part. And that's saying something, as I am a BB employee myself. I'm pretty confident that I know more than most of them, even though I work in a different dept, mostly thanks to this forum :)
I think the problem is that the "training" that BB employees go through is not adequate enough for something like HT - it's just enough for them to know the main selling points of the products. And many of them are biased towards LCDs because, well, they see them on a daily basis in the store and the LCDs appear brighter and seem to have a more "wow factor". Of course AVS forum members know that this isn't an accurate representation of what ppl would see in their homes, but I doubt most of my co-workers think that way (with the exception of the Magnolia employees). Anyway I just wanted to get this off my chest and let ppl here know that not ALL BB employees are clueless ;)
Now back to the 9G Kuro's!!!

your right. not all al like that. I have met a couple that really knew thier stuff.

Does anyone know if the 9th Gen Kuros will have an "input" button on the remote that allows you to skip thru the inputs?
The 5080 I had did not. You had to press the number for the input on the remote to go ton that input.

Does anyone know if the 9th Gen Kuros will have an "input" button on the remote that allows you to skip thru the inputs?
The 5080 I had did not. You had to press the number for the input on the remote to go ton that input.Why would you want to "skip thru" inputs when the current remote has discrete input selections?

Why would you want to "skip thru" inputs when the current remote has discrete input selections?

Might be like the presets for television stations ... although you can directly switch to whatever preset, it might be nice to "skip thru" :)

But I see your point, you know

I also work at BB and I would say that our HT training is very poor when it comes to product knowledge, and some of the principles are out of whack....For example, if a customer with a limited budget is looking at an Insignia plasma tv (junk), the supervisors are far more pleased if we can sell that junk tv with service plan on it, rather than for the same price get the customer to buy a quality product and maybe not get the service plan. I know that's just business and it's all about the bottom line, but if the customer asks MY opinion on product, I give it to them straight up..."It's junk!"

And another point about about how un-informed BB ppl at my store are, I told the big wigs that are supposed to be all tech savvy that I bought an Oppo player and they had no idea what I was talking about.

Also, the words "burn-in" are heard so much I cringe when I hear them from a fellow employee's mouth and I want to jump in to their sale and push plasma as at least an equal to LCD.

Anyway, can't wait to see 9G Kuros so I can recommend them to my customers....and buy one for myself of course!

any one of the forums sponsors offer six months or 12 months interest free financing with qualified credit?

+1, I would like to know the answer to this question also!

viva la revolucion hingis! :)

i worked at BB in 2000 and i know how bad it could get - even though we weren't commission it sure felt like it with department pressure. stressful place for me.

i don't expect every salesman to know everything, but come on - get a handle on your products. at the very least the manager should know the skinny and trickle it down. i think that's less of a sales pitch and more misinformation that is floating around.

It's kind of funny how things can either frustrate you or make you feel good with these vendors that don't know enough of their stuff to work there. About two years ago I went to CC to purchase a TV. Same as some of you, I kept correcting the man and asking about specs he had never heard about. He called his colleague and told him he'd share his commission if he'd help him. Neither of them were able to respond to all my questions with clarity. Finally they called the manager who was somewhat more knowledgeable but not enough. We got into a situation where he was swearing a certain TV came in a size which it did not. He went to his computer to prove it. Came back and said I was right and he was wrong and he apologized. Next thing I hear is that he is asking me if I would be interested in working at CC. I said I already had a job, then he said that if in the future I wanted to work there to call him and gave me his business card. :D

lol

well, honestly 9 times out of 10 people who are working retail are people with little motivation so unless they personally have a true love and hunger for info about the products they're selling they just barely give enough of a crap to know the basics. and the general public legends.

now i'm sure people here who are in retail are that other 10%.

I can't ever remember purchasing any TV based on a salesperson's advice. Not only do they not know facts about their products or basic information, they also have an agenda w/their own salespeak spiel and misinformation/talking points campaign against plasma video tech. As I travel in different parts of the country and occaisionally visit the local big box stores, I hear the same old tired crapola favoring LCD and spreading false misleading information regarding Plasma Displays. It's really got to be a joke, but I can't laugh, and it's too much of coincidence that makes me suspicious.

Why would you want to "skip thru" inputs when the current remote has discrete input selections?

Because The remote for my Comcast Motorola Cable/HDDVR is programmable to the television.
I want to try to use my Cable/HDDVR remote for everything. And the remote only has the "input" button. This way I could use the remote for my Cable/HDDVR for changing inputs instead of having to use 2 remotes.
When I had my 5080 I could use my cable/HDDVR remote for volume and power but not for changing inputs.
I just thought it would be nice if i could use the one remote for most of the basic functions.
Is there any way to achieve this?

my Tivo HD remote has set remote codes for tv control (on/off, volume and input buttons) and will cycle/skip through the inputs of my Pro150FD. I rarely use it but it does work that way if needed.

Because The remote for my Comcast Motorola Cable/HDDVR is programmable to the television.
I want to try to use my Cable/HDDVR remote for everything. And the remote only has the "input" button. This way I could use the remote for my Cable/HDDVR for changing inputs instead of having to use 2 remotes.
When I had my 5080 I could use my cable/HDDVR remote for volume and power but not for changing inputs.
I just thought it would be nice if i could use the one remote for most of the basic functions.
Is there any way to achieve this?

Time for a Harmony remote. I own an 880 and it's friggin' fantastic. It controls
everything! Why let the limitations of your remote dictate things?

Time for a Harmony remote. I own an 880 and it's friggin' fantastic. It controls
everything! Why let the limitations of your remote dictate things?

Definitely! If someone can afford a Kuro then a Harmony is within range for sure. Can even control my lighting and even a heater here in the basement. I'd be lost w/o one now:).

Harmony 880 is amazing and if you can find it it will be about half price right now as the Harmony "ONE" is replacing it...(which I have seen a review saying it's even better, with a partial touch screen)....but I own the 880 and 3 friends have bought it as well after checking out mine!

I will look into the harmony.
One reason I would like to use my Cable/hddvr remote is the "on demand" button. I watch a huge amount of on-demand and love the one button access.

I will look into the harmony.
One reason I would like to use my Cable/hddvr remote is the "on demand" button. I watch a huge amount of on-demand and love the one button access.

The harmony most likely supports your remote, and if it doesn't, you can
easily just LEARN the button anyhow.

Harmony 880 is amazing and if you can find it it will be about half price right now as the Harmony "ONE" is replacing it...(which I have seen a review saying it's even better, with a partial touch screen)....but I own the 880 and 3 friends have bought it as well after checking out mine!
I agree. My Harmony 880 is the most wife-friendly piece of electronics gear that I own. Best of all, I now have two (one for the MBR and one for the LR/FR).

I agree. My Harmony 880 is the most wife-friendly piece of electronics gear that I own. Best of all, I now have two (one for the MBR and one for the LR/FR).

I want a harmony 1000, looks like a pad from star trek...

This thread is hosed.

Hosed??
Whats is hosed about it?
If you don't have any questions about the 9th Gen kuro's or don't have anything to add other than "this thread is hosed". Please don't post here.

So has the MSRP of the Pro-151fd been dropped from 6500 to 5999??

Please ignore this post ... I needed 3 posts so I could qualify to post a link

When Panasonic starts building Pioneers glass, will the entire Pioneer Television be assembled by Panasonic or will the glass be shipped from Panasonic to pioneer and then the entire Television will be assembled by pioneer?


This link to Pioneer's European site has the most recent, and best, explanation I have read so far:

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/content/press/news/pioneerMatsushita_agreement.html

... and at the same site they have the best description of the new 9G:

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/content/press/news/kuroG9.html

I have not seen either link posted here before, so if they are repeats ... mea culpa :p

Hosed??
Whats is hosed about it?
If you don't have any questions about the 9th Gen kuro's or don't have anything to add other than "this thread is hosed". Please don't post here.Oh pardon me. I guess those remote control selections and those details are all about 9G release dates.

Oh pardon me. I guess those remote control selections and those details are all about 9G release dates.
It's preferable to the bickering... Seriously, a long thread like this is bound to get a bit off track once in a while and remote control discussion is at least somewhat related to the item being discussed.

Just called Tweeter....They are saying June 10th for the 60 inch Elite and ar taking pre-orders for less $$$ than the 2007 Elites!!!

Oh pardon me. I guess those remote control selections and those details are all about 9G release dates.

Oh come on, when the 9G comes out, the guy needs to get a decent remote.
Yeah, it's not a "WHEN" type question, but when someone asks a question
regarding the 9G features related to anything, we're here to help. A few folks
concur and apparently the thread is 'hosed'. Sure, if the topic was like that
for 5 pages, then I can see where you're getting at, but it's not even 1 friggin'
page!! Tell me, what have you contributed to this thread?!

Tell me, what have you contributed to this thread?!

He totally hosed it:p.

Oh pardon me. I guess those remote control selections and those details are all about 9G release dates.

I would much rather the Thread get a little off topic about the remote functionality of the TV the thread is about (9th gen) then for someone to create a brand new thread everytime they have a question thats a little off topic. Then I am sure you would pop up in the new thread and also complain about that right? I guess it is in some peoples nature to complain.

I read on a previous post that having a non-elite calibrated, although great for movies, could be a detriment if you prefer watching a lot of sports? does that statement hold any water?

I watch movies and sports equally and I'm deciding whether to get my new 5020 calibrated once it comes out...

I read on a previous post that having a non-elite calibrated, although great for movies, could be a detriment if you prefer watching a lot of sports? does that statement hold any water?

I watch movies and sports equally and I'm deciding whether to get my new 5020 calibrated once it comes out...

Perhaps it was my post as I find the D65 or whatever reference settings are
great for movies (especially classics like Star Wars!), but not for everything.
Anyhow, the one drawback to calibration on a non-elite is that some changes
are supposedly global (ie: affects all modes) and changes can only be done in
the service menu. You want to make sure the professional calibrator records
your settings before any changes are done.

Now, I can't remember, but I don't think colour or gamma are universal, so
you might be able to make adjustments for that specific mode (eg: movie
vs. standard) so that the D65 (or whatever) reference settings are on one
mode (eg: movie) while something more suitable for sports is on another mode.
If this is not possible, then that's the drawback.

Does anyone know why tweeter took the 9th generation pre-order flyer off of their website?? There used to be panasonic and Pioneer on the page but now the Pioneer is no longer there.
Anyone got the scoop?
Enquiring minds want to know.

I posted my guess on the other thread (one of the 3 or more 9g threads lol) and I think it had something to do with them doing it to quick before any official info from Pioneer to all dealers. I like your thread the most BTW :)

Does anyone know why tweeter took the 9th generation pre-order flyer off of their website?? There used to be panasonic and Pioneer on the page but now the Pioneer is no longer there.
Anyone got the scoop?
Enquiring minds want to know.

Hey, update your original post with the Tweeter "Regular" prices as those appear to be the MSRP. :)

At last! Official press releases from Pioneer US!

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom

At last! Official press releases from Pioneer US!

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoomYou beat me to it :)


Prices are what russwong and I posted last month ;)

Official Pre-Release thread coming later today.

At last we can come out of Speculation City... :D

What are the main differences between the PRO-151FD and the 6020FD. They both appear to have the new “Optimum mode” feature.

I just wish the Canadian press releases would be out at the same time.

I guess the official MSRP explains in part why Tweeter removed it's ad. :p

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 8th-gen panels have the "optimum" feature that analyzes the light in a room?

What are the main differences between the PRO-151FD and the 6020FD. They both appear to have the new “Optimum mode” feature.Pretty much the same differences that currently exist.

Optimum mode is worthless, IMO, except for in-store viewing.

What are the main differences between the PRO-151FD and the 6020FD. They both appear to have the new “Optimum mode” feature.

Full feature professional calibration is only available on the professional series, such as the PRO-151FD. Everything else is the same.

Full feature professional calibration is only available on the professional series, such as the PRO-151FD. Everything else is the same.

So the 5020 and it's elite counterpart will have the same PQ? Why the extra $1000 if there is no PQ difference?

I am so happy the 5020 is only $4000! That is great news for AV enthusiasts!!! I just hope that Sweden has an equally low MSRP for their version of the 5020. I am dying to know what the Swedish MSRP will be. It is so hard not knowing if you will be able to afford yoru dream set or not! I am hoping the MSRP will be 40,000 SEK. Any European members out there have ANY European MSRP's yet? Please, please, please....:p

I am so happy the 5020 is only $4000! That is great news for AV enthusiasts!!! I just hope that Sweden has an equally low MSRP for their version of the 5020. I am dying to know what the Swedish MSRP will be. It is so hard not knowing if you will be able to afford yoru dream set or not! I am hoping the MSRP will be 40,000 SEK. Any European members out there have ANY European MSRP's yet? Please, please, please....:p

Please please please :D

Here they are:

ca 30 000kr for 50" standard.
ca 33 000kr for 50" with HD-tuner etc.
ca 55 000kr for 60" standard
ca 58 000kr for 60" with HD-tuner

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/07/second-generation-pioneer-kuro-unveiled-5x-deeper-black-levels/

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080507005409&newsLang=en

looks awesome. however, i think my 5010 will make me happy for a few years :)

Please please please :D

Here they are:

ca 30 000kr for 50" standard.
ca 33 000kr for 50" with HD-tuner etc.
ca 55 000kr for 60" standard
ca 58 000kr for 60" with HD-tuner

Now before I grab a stranger and tongue kiss them out of pure joy.......are these legit prices? How did you come about them....the source. It is not that I want to doubt you.....on the contrary I want to believe. I just don't want to get my hopes up and then be dissapointed if the price for the 50" standard is 45,000 or 50,000 kr.

Also, the HD tuner will allow you to pick up freeview...isn't that right? Do you think that is a beneficial thing living in Sweden? I heard from a salesman at an AV store that there wouldn't be HD freeview for like 5 years in Sweden.

Also, what is the best way to get the most high quality HD channels in Sweden.....a cable box or a satellite dish....and which company?

Thanks in advance:)

Damn you and that russwong guy! Why couldn't you guys be wrong and be priced too high! At least the good news I had of them coming out in June with the non-elites was correct too. :)


You beat me to it :)


Prices are what russwong and I posted last month ;)

Official Pre-Release thread coming later today.

Now before I grab a stranger and tongue kiss them out of pure joy.......are these legit prices? How did you come about them....the source. It is not that I want to doubt you.....on the contrary I want to believe. I just don't want to get my hopes up and then be dissapointed if the price for the 50" standard is 45,000 or 50,000 kr.

Also, the HD tuner will allow you to pick up freeview...isn't that right? Do you think that is a beneficial thing living in Sweden? I heard from a salesman at an AV store that there wouldn't be HD freeview for like 5 years in Sweden.

Also, what is the best way to get the most high quality HD channels in Sweden.....a cable box or a satellite dish....and which company?

Thanks in advance:)

HD tuner will work for satellite dish CD (I hope ) but we will see when it comes out.

http://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=186361&view=findpost&p=1904027

Here we go again... Elite vs the non-elite, no difference between the two, Pioneer just wants to charge you more money for the same product....

Anyways, there are some old threads that discuss the differences between the Elite and non-elite in the 7G and 8G models. (Look at the 1140HD owners thread.) The differences in the 9G Elite vs the non-elite model will be very similar, but yes once again it's your own choice. Yes the Elites are tested to a higher tolerance, for their components, yes there is different firmware, yes there is networking, etc etc etc... but only you can decide, but at least be informed about your decision vs just trying to make yourself feel better by saying there is no difference.

Both sets are great sets, the Elite is better, but you don't have to buy it and you don't have to knock it, just be informed about it and make your choice.

What is interesting is one of the press releases seems to indicate even more features and tweakability in the Signature Series Monitors.... I'll have to look into that one...

Full feature professional calibration is only available on the professional series, such as the PRO-151FD. Everything else is the same.

HD tuner will work for satellite dish CD (I hope ) but we will see when it comes out.

http://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=186361&view=findpost&p=1904027

Thank you. The only thing is that I cannot read Swedish yet. That link was to a Swedish forum where the prices were quoted. Do you think that forum info is legit....what was the person saying before they quoted the prices? In other words, what do they claim as their source? Or are they just "wish list" speculating?

Thank you. The only thing is that I cannot read Swedish yet. That link was to a Swedish forum where the prices were quoted. Do you think that forum info is legit....what was the person saying before they quoted the prices? In other words, what do they claim as their source? Or are they just "wish list" speculating?

ehhhe don't think about what he said before :D
but he is Pio dealer here in Stockholm and knows there pricese before everybody because he has very good info from inisde Pio. So don't worry just move your ..... :D

Here we go again... Elite vs the non-elite, no difference between the two, Pioneer just wants to charge you more money for the same product....

Anyways, there are some old threads that discuss the differences between the Elite and non-elite in the 7G and 8G models. (Look at the 1140HD owners thread.) The differences in the 9G Elite vs the non-elite model will be very similar, but yes once again it's your own choice. Yes the Elites are tested to a higher tolerance, for their components, yes there is different firmware, yes there is networking, etc etc etc... but only you can decide, but at least be informed about your decision vs just trying to make yourself feel better by saying there is no difference.

Both sets are great sets, the Elite is better, but you don't have to buy it and you don't have to knock it, just be informed about it and make your choice.

What is interesting is one of the press releases seems to indicate even more features and tweakability in the Signature Series Monitors.... I'll have to look into that one...

Thanks. I also see that the Elites have a longer warranty 2 year versus 1 year.