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Hey guys, I was wondering how the 980 would stack up against the Denon 3910 in terms of sound quality. I know that there's a big price difference, even when buying the 3910 used. I have a dvd-a player but I want to get into some sacd as well. Was hoping to get a player that will do both, as well as good cd playback.

My comments are here: http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/108mitr/

Hey guys, I was wondering how the 980 would stack up against the Denon 3910 in terms of sound quality. I know that there's a big price difference, even when buying the 3910 used. I have a dvd-a player but I want to get into some sacd as well. Was hoping to get a player that will do both, as well as good cd playback.If you plan upon using the analog multichannel outputs and the player's bass management capabilities, I would recommend the 3910 as the OPPO has a bass management issue and will not bass manage DVD-A tracks that are 96kHz and higher.

Oppo. I have both, er had both, the Denon cra*ped out 2 days after the warranty ran out. Cost of having the Denon looked at...not repaired, just looked at was more than half the cost of the Oppo. Very happy with the Oppo, wish I bought it first. EVERY piece of CE equipment out there now has issues. I don't care what you buy, there is some HDMI, LFE, lip sync, audio sync, temperature, whatever problem. Welcome to the world of consumer beta testing...buy I digress...buy the Oppo, great customer service is you need set up help, etc... Oh yes and the previous posters review is spot on. The integra pre-pro is awesome...

Hey guys, I was wondering how the 980 would stack up against the Denon 3910 in terms of sound quality.Just to add, if you are using an HDMI connection, then, theoretically, it shouldn't matter, but be aware that the OPPO will output SACD as DSD. But you must have a receiver that can accept DSD via HDMI to be able to take advantage of that feature of the OPPO. I don't think the 3910 can output DSD.

For multichannel music I'll be using the analogue outputs. I have a Rotel 1068 prepro, with no hdmi. My main reason for getting a new unit is to take advantage of sacd as well as DVD-A. And I was hoping that the SQ in 2 channel when using the DACs from the 980/3910 would be better than the ones on my existing Sony 200 disc player. It will be feeding a Musical Fidelity A5 Preamp.

For multichannel music I'll be using the analogue outputs. I have a Rotel 1068 prepro, with no hdmi. My main reason for getting a new unit is to take advantage of sacd as well as DVD-A. And I was hoping that the SQ in 2 channel when using the DACs from the 980/3910 would be better than the ones on my existing Sony 200 disc player. It will be feeding a Musical Fidelity A5 Preamp.For two channel only? I'm not sure which may sound better. But the DACs are not the only determinant of that. The 980 I am currently "trying out" sounds as good for 2-channel as my Denon3803 receiver sounds for decoding 2-channel. I had (and still have) a Denon 2200 and it sounds very much like, if not identical to, the 3803.

But, as I pointed out, the 980 has a bass management issue with DVD-A tracks that are 96kHz and higher, multichannel or 2-channel, which is the majority of DVD-As. If you will not be bass managing it will not be a concern. As far as I could tell, the 980 had no such bass management issues with SACD although there may be a difference in the LFE channel output level between DVD-A and SACD. It's hard to assess that accurately.

My comments are here: http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/108mitr/

Hey Kal. Great article. Thanks.

Hmm...seems this forum has turned into a hardware forum lately. I believe there are forms within this site that addresses this and many other topics that don't belong here.........What say you

Hmm...seems this forum has turned into a hardware forum lately. I believe there are forms within this site that addresses this and many other topics that don't belong here.........What say you

I don't think there is any other forum where people who care about universal hi-res audio MCH playback can go with more relevance than here. Also, I suspect that the focus on hardware is simply a sad byproduct of the paucity of MCH audio currently available, particularly for those who are not classical or jazz fans.

Anyways, after reading Kal's article. Running HDMI through each player, the sound was very similar. I will not be taking advantage of HDMI as of now. Most of my music listening (SACD, DVD-A CD) will be through the analog outputs. Digital for movies. That being said, the 3910 appears to have the upper hand.

Just to add, if you are using an HDMI connection, then, theoretically, it shouldn't matter, but be aware that the OPPO will output SACD as DSD. But you must have a receiver that can accept DSD via HDMI to be able to take advantage of that feature of the OPPO. I don't think the 3910 can output DSD.

The Denon 3910 can output native DSD over Denonlink 3.

As transports I would say both are very good players but it's not very close when comparing their analog output. The Denon 3910 blows the Oppo out of the water for cd, dvd-a, and sacd sound through the analog connections.

Hmm...seems this forum has turned into a hardware forum lately. I believe there are forms within this site that addresses this and many other topics that don't belong here.........What say youI say, for someone who really doesn't come around much, you have some nerve. :p

We talk about multichannel players here ALL THE TIME. :rolleyes:

I had already moved this thread from the "CD players & Dedicated Music Transports" area. There are so many sub forums and I must have missed the "DVD Players (Standard Def)" area. Which is the area this probably should have been in. Oops. :o

The Denon 3910 can output native DSD over Denonlink 3.Right. Always forget about Denonlink.


..................but it's not very close when comparing their analog output. The Denon 3910 blows the Oppo out of the water for cd, dvd-a, and sacd sound through the analog connections.
And how did you reach this conclusion?

There are so many sub forums and I must have missed the "DVD Players (Standard Def)" area. Which is the area this probably should have been in. Oops. :oYou posted in the correct forum for a multichannel player audio-related question. That other forum is mostly for video-related stuff.

I say, for someone who really doesn't come around much, you have some nerve. :p

We talk about multichannel players here ALL THE TIME. :rolleyes:

Yes I do have nerve thats why I said it. Perhaps the reason I don't answer in threads like this one is because I am more interested in the music side of this forum. I would think if you look though this forum you will find many threads I have replied to and or started. Shame on you for being so crass and ill informed.Next time before you make a comment like that you should look a little more. I call people like you full of themselves and you serve no useful purpose other then being arrogant. But hey that's MHO

But, as I pointed out, the 980 has a bass management issue with DVD-A tracks above 96kHz, multichannel or 2-channel, which is the majority of DVD-As. If you will not be bass managing it will not be a concern. As far as I could tell, the 980 had no such bass management issues with SACD although there may be a difference in the LFE channel output level between DVD-A and SACD. It's hard to assess that accurately.


Actually there are only of a handfull of stereo only DVD-A that has more then 96k sampling rate and none which are MCH. So I would say there is only a very samll minority of DVD-As are affected.

Yes I do have nerve thats why I said it. Perhaps the reason I don't answer in threads like this one is because I am more interested in the music side of this forum. I would think if you look though this forum you will find many threads I have replied to and or started. Shame on you for being so crass and ill informed.Next time before you make a comment like that you should look a little more. I call people like you full of themselves and you serve no useful purpose other then being arrogant. But hey that's MHO
Then perhaps you should simply not enter threads that are clearly discussing hardware, if it bothers you so much. As I noted above, there are no other forums in this site that focus on multichannel audio players to a sufficient extent for anyone to expect others with the same interest to see their questions. You are entitled to think what you want, but your initial attitude of presuming to tell the rest of us that our topics "don't belong"--especially as you are NOT a moderator--can easily be interpreted as "arrogant" (particularly as the forum title is "Surround Music FORMATS" and that definitely means hardware discussions fall within the purview of the forum title). Your complaint might have some merit if the topic title was something like "Thoughts on the SFO Mahler 7 on SACD" and it became a hardware discussion, but the title CLEARLY indicated it was a hardware related thread. You do have the option NOT to enter it.

I compared the analog-outs of my Oppo 970 and Denon 2900. While the Denon was better, the difference wasn't of the "blow-out-of-water" variety. If I really concentrated on the sound (as opposed to listening to music), I could discern it on some stuff. Not sure how the players in the OP compare to mine, although I was under the impression that the 2900 was at least as good as its successors for hi-res analog output) .

Yes I do have nerve thats why I said it. Perhaps the reason I don't answer in threads like this one is because I am more interested in the music side of this forum. I would think if you look though this forum you will find many threads I have replied to and or started. Shame on you for being so crass and ill informed.Next time before you make a comment like that you should look a little more. I call people like you full of themselves and you serve no useful purpose other then being arrogant. But hey that's MHOLOL! Nice post. Get a grip, scooter. Somebody pee in your corn flakes? You're the one who jumped into the thread and crassly told the OP.................
Hmm...seems this forum has turned into a hardware forum lately. I believe there are forms within this site that addresses this and many other topics that don't belong here.........What say you

............which was complete and utter BS. As I told the OP, he posted his question in exactly the right forum. Are you the post police, now?

Hmm...seems this forum has turned into a hardware forum lately. I believe there are forms within this site that addresses this and many other topics that don't belong here.........What say you

I clicked on this thread because I care about multichannel audio and I thought the topic was appropriate for this forum. :cool:

Actually there are only of a handfull of stereo only DVD-A that has more then 96k sampling rate and none which are MCH. So I would say there is only a very samll minority of DVD-As are affected.
Sorry, I edited my posts to say "96kHz and higher".

The 980 won't bass manage any DVD-A tracks that are 96kHz and higher, MC or stereo. The VAST majority of DVD-As have 96kHz/24bit MC tracks. Those with less are the exception. Does your player tell you in the OSD what sampling rate/bitrate your DVD-As are? Many of my DVD-As have 96kHz multichannel tracks. And the 2-channel tracks on those are at least 96kHz and some are 192kHz. I can only think of a few DVD-As off the top of my head that I have that I know do NOT have 96kHz tracks:

Donald Fagen - The Nightfly 48kHz MC and 2C
Donald Fagen - Kamakiriad 48kHz MC and 2C
Pat Metheny - Imaginary Day 88.4kHz MC and 176.4kHz 2C

I'm sure there are others, but as I said, many of mine have 96kHz MC tracks.

DVD-A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-A) is fully capable of 96kHz multichannel tracks. Even DTS is capable of 96kHz multichannel tracks.

Go HERE (http://www.elusivedisc.com/) and put "DVD-A" in the Artist/Title search box and just start clicking on all the titles. Not all the descriptions contain the sampling rate/bitrate info, but many do and are described as having 96kHz/24-bit MC DVD-A tracks.

Several that are not available there or that do not list the sampling rate/bitrate that I KNOW are 96kHz are:

Steely Dan-Gaucho
Steely Dan-Two Against Nature
Steely Dan-Everything Must Go
Yes-Fragile
The Who-Tommy
Elton John-Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Grateful Dead-Workingman's Dead
Grateful Dead-American Beauty.
and many more..........................

OK, here's my thinking. The Denon has multi-channel analog outputs. They are for mc sacd and dvd-a. They will feed the mc analog inputs on my Rotel 1068. The digital output will also go to the 1068 for movies and Pro logic music (5 channel and 7 channel music, sometimes a nice feature). It also has a seperate 2 channel out that can be used with my Musical Fidelity A5 pre amp, without using the HT passthrough. Hope this all makes sense.

OK, here's my thinking. The Denon has multi-channel analog outputs. They are for mc sacd and dvd-a.
So does the OPPO. All DVD-A and/or SACD players have multichannel analog outputs. Unless you use HDMI or some other proprietary digital interface like Denonlink, you can't pass DVD-A or SACD from the player to a processor.

The digital output will also go to the 1068 for movies and Pro logic music (5 channel and 7 channel music, sometimes a nice feature).You can decode your DD/DTS movies at the player if you wish, and pass that via the MC analog connection, too.

Sorry no cornflakes this morning, it was a bagel minus the piss although the coffee could have been better.

Look in all honesty I posted a question which I felt relevant. If someone does not agree thats ok. Besides isn't that why we frequent these threads. I never once attacked anyone for their opinion until the minor flaming started. I have been on this board for 6 years and I comment or ask questions when I feel the need. I have a very busy life and the times I do post or reply are generally threads of interest. Perhaps what we need is a sub forum for the hardware side of MCM like we do up in the Screen section. If you agree or not I'm ok with that but it will not keep me from stating my thoughts.

Sorry no cornflakes this morning, it was a bagel minus the piss although the coffee could have been better.

Look in all honesty I posted a question which I felt relevant. If someone does not agree thats ok. Besides isn't that why we frequent these threads. I never once attacked anyone for their opinion until the minor flaming started. I have been on this board for 6 years and I comment or ask questions when I feel the need. I have a very busy life and the times I do post or reply are generally threads of interest. Perhaps what we need is a sub forum for the hardware side of MCM like we do up in the Screen section. If you agree or not I'm ok with that but it will not keep me from stating my thoughts.
/shakes scooterdog's hand

I didn't at all mean to rile you, scooterdog. I was trying to be light-hearted when I said you "had some nerve" then a "razz smilie". Sometimes stuff just doesn't come across right on the interwebs. Sorry.


But this has always been the forum for questions about hirez players. No one has ever seemed to mind except you, scooter. Why does it bother you so? I don't get it.

Many of the thread titles in this forum are hardware questions.

No Harm No foul. \ shakes hands back

Its more the clutter then the content at times. Should have had a V8

So does the OPPO. All DVD-A and/or SACD players have multichannel analog outputs. Unless you use HDMI or some other proprietary digital interface like Denonlink, you can't pass DVD-A or SACD from the player to a processor.

Right. I'm not knocking the Oppo player. Thats why I'm comparing the 2. For the money I don't think it can be beat. When viewing the back of the Oppo I noticed that there isn't a seperate 2 channel audio output. I know that I can use the fronts from the multi-channel analog section for this, but I would like to have a seperate 2 channel analog out and a multi-channel audio out. Is there another player that has that feature?

Right. I'm not knocking the Oppo player. Thats why I'm comparing the 2. For the money I don't think it can be beat. When viewing the back of the Oppo I noticed that there isn't a seperate 2 channel audio output. I know that I can use the fronts from the multi-channel analog section for this, but I would like to have a seperate 2 channel analog out and a multi-channel audio out. Is there another player that has that feature?
Right. The OPPO doesn't have a separate pair of R/L analog outs.

My Denon2200 had (has) a separate pair of R/L analog outs but, unfortunately, the same bass management settings that are applied to the R/L outputs of the multichannel analog out cluster are applied to this pair, too. I don't know how the 3910 operates and you may not be able to figure it out from the manual. I had to figure out how they worked on my 2200 by hands-on experimentation. I wish they were NOT bass managed and instead were full-range as I would use them for a 2-channel analog connection.

Will you be using the player's bass management (setting your front speakers to SMALL)? If not, and you want to run these into another unit, like your MF pre-amp, you can use splitters.

Some other multichannel players DO have the lone pair of R/L analog outs but, as I said, my 2200 has them but they are bass managed. It may be hard to decipher other players' manuals as to how their extra pair of R/L outs are treated.

Right. My Denon2200 had (has) a separate pair of R/L analog outs but, unfortunately, the same bass management settings that are applied to the R/L outputs of the multichannel analog out cluster are applied to this pair, too.


I hope this is not the case. Maybe a 3910 owner will chime in that knows if the 2 channel outputs are unaffected by the bass management.

And how did you reach this conclusion?

I own both players. For a universal player I've found the Denon 3910 to be very good at dvd-audio and redbook playback through the analog connections. It's not a bad SACD player but frankly my Marantz SA-11s1 is a much better SACD player(of course it cost a lot more too).

I own a 3910 and, while I have never heard the Oppo, I can make this observation.

I have done several A/B comparisons over the years with the 3910 and WAV files to the same receiver via coax digital cable and a Samsung HD-841 universal player via multichannel, stereo analog, and optical inputs.

I have the 3910 hooked to my Denon 3806 receiver with the Denon-Link.

I know I am biased, but the difference is very great over the Samsung and significant over the WAV files. Interestingly, when compared to the WAV files a great variety exists, some recordings with a huge difference, while others barely perceptable.

Overall, I attribute the difference to the Denon Link. I have never compared the 3910 via its S/PDIF outputs to the other players. There is a clarity that goes along with the Denon Link that is quite pleasant.

That being said, if I had read the review of the Oppo before I laid down over $1000 for the 3910, I would have probably bought the Oppo.

Certainly I would not have gotten the 3910 if I were not planning on using the D-Link and buying the upscale Denon receiver.

The cost differences are quite striking.

Not quite so striking if you buy used.:D

Sorry, I edited my posts to say "96kHz and higher".

The 980 won't bass manage any DVD-A tracks that are 96kHz and higher, MC or stereo. The VAST majority of DVD-As have 96kHz/24bit MC tracks. Those with less are the exception. Does your player tell you in the OSD what sampling rate/bitrate your DVD-As are? Many of my DVD-As have 96kHz multichannel tracks. And the 2-channel tracks on those are at least 96kHz and some are 192kHz. I can only think of a few DVD-As off the top of my head that I have that I know do NOT have 96kHz tracks:

Donald Fagen - The Nightfly 48kHz MC and 2C
Donald Fagen - Kamakiriad 48kHz MC and 2C
Pat Metheny - Imaginary Day 88.4kHz MC and 176.4kHz 2C

I'm sure there are others, but as I said, many of mine have 96kHz MC tracks.

DVD-A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-A) is fully capable of 96kHz multichannel tracks. Even DTS is capable of 96kHz multichannel tracks.

Go HERE (http://www.elusivedisc.com/) and put "DVD-A" in the Artist/Title search box and just start clicking on all the titles. Not all the descriptions contain the sampling rate/bitrate info, but many do and are described as having 96kHz/24-bit MC DVD-A tracks.

Several that are not available there or that do not list the sampling rate/bitrate that I KNOW are 96kHz are:

Steely Dan-Gaucho
Steely Dan-Two Against Nature
Steely Dan-Everything Must Go
Yes-Fragile
The Who-Tommy
Elton John-Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Grateful Dead-Workingman's Dead
Grateful Dead-American Beauty.
and many more..........................


Yes, I'm well aware of the specification of DVD-A. My preamp via HDMI tells me the sampling rate, but my rather small collection[@40] of DVD-As are about half of them are only 48khz for MCH. So unless you have a solid data to back up your claim that the "vast majority" of DVD-As are 96khz or higher, I'' remain skeptical and so should everyone else.Retailer sites are often unreliable when it comes to technical details.

But in any case since I use HDMI it won't matter to me much one way or another, but people who have to use the analogs will have issues no doubt.

So unless you have a solid data to back up your claim that the "vast majority" of DVD-As are 96khz or higher, I'' remain skeptical and so should everyone else. Retailer sites are often unreliable when it comes to technical details.
What do you want me to do, take photos of my DVD-A's covers and/or take photos of my player's OSD when playing such discs?

I can list all the DVD-As (and you probably have more than I) that I own and tell you what the sampling rates are if you'd like, but I'd prefer to not have to do that. You wouldn't trust me, anyway, so............... :(

I can't say it any more plainly: The vast majority of DVD-As are 96kHz. There is really nothing to discuss/argue about, here. Perhaps someone will come along and confirm this (Kal, where are you?). I understand your distrust in the reliability of retailers' sites descriptions, and I am a skeptic too, but Elusive Disc's descriptions are correct. If it says that a disc is 96kHz, you can trust that it is.

I wish I DID have HDMI capability. I wouldn't be (most likely) returning the 980 I just bought if I did. :(

So unless you have a solid data to back up your claim that the "vast majority" of DVD-As are 96khz or higher, I'' remain skeptical and so should everyone else.
You didn't ask me to do it, but I did it pre-emptively, anyway. :p :D I wanted to know, myself.

Of my 42 DVD-As, 34 have 96kHz multichannel tracks and 8 have <96kHz multichannel tracks (plus 3 DADs with 96kHz 2-channel tracks). So, 81% of my DVD-As have 96kHz multichannel tracks (didn't include the DADs). So, I think you can see why a lack of bass management with DVD-A tracks that are 96kHz and higher would be a concern for me.

I sorted the DVD-As according to the sampling rate of their multichannel content.

The sampling rate of the 2-channel content of those discs that have 96kHz multichannel tracks is at least 96kHz and sometimes as high as 192kHz. I have indicated which 2 of my 96kHz DVD-As only have 2-channel tracks and are NOT multichannel discs. The sampling rate of the 2-channel content of those discs that have <96kHz multichannel tracks is never greater than that of the multichannel tracks (usually 48kHz). One of my DVD-As has neither 96kHz nor 48kHz multichannel or 2-channel tracks and, instead, has 88.2kHz tracks.


DVD-As w/96kHz multichannel tracks:
Blue Man Group - Audio
Berlin Philhamonic/Claudio Abbado - Beethoven's 9th Symphony
Berlin Philhamonic/Claudio Abbado - Beethoven's 5th and 6th Symphonies
The Beatles - LOVE
Yes - Magnification
Yes - Fragile
Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery
Miles Davis - Tutu
Béla Fleck - The Bluegrass Sessions:Tales from the Acoustic Planet
Grateful Dead - Workingman's Dead
Grateful Dead - American Beauty
David Crosby - If I Could Only Rememeber My Name
Talking Heads - Fear of Music
Talking Heads - Remain in Light
Talking Heads - Speaking in Tongues
The Flaming Lips - Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
Mark Knopfler - Shangri-La
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (quad mix bootleg)
Neil Young - Harvest
The Band - Music from Big Pink
The Best of Mickey Hart - Over the Edge and Back
The Doors - L.A. Woman
Billy Cobham - Spectrum
The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
Frank Zappa - Halloween
Donald Fagen - Morph the Cat
Steely Dan - Gaucho
Steely Dan - Two Against Nature
Steely Dan - Everything Must Go
The Who - Tommy
Neil Young - Harvest
Neil Young and Crazy Horse - greendale
Neil Young - On the Beach (2 channel only; 176.4kHz)
Robert Walter's 20th Congress - Money Shot (2 channel only; 96kHz)

DVD-As w/less than 96kHz (usually 48kHz) multichannel tracks:
Led Zeppelin - How the West Was Won (48kHz)
London Symphony Orchestra/André Previn - Holst's The Planets (48kHz)
The Band - The Last Waltz (48kHz)
Björk - Vespertine (48kHz)
Pat Metheny Group - Imaginary Day (88.2kHz)
Porcupine Tree - In Absentia (48kHz)
Donald Fagen - The Nightfly (48kHz)
Donald Fagen - Kamakiriad (48kHz)

DADs (96kHz, 2-channel, non-DTS DVD-Vs)
Neil Young - Greatest Hits
Neil Young - Prairie Wind
Freddie Hubbard - Open Sesame


However, what percentage of my DVD-As (or yours) is 96kHz is not indicative of what percentage of all DVD-As have 96kHz multichannel tracks. Fact is, an even greater percentage than 81% are 96kHz discs. A large percentage of DVD-As are classical discs and most of those are 96kHz.

"Solid data"? Find it yourself. I gave you a very good place to start looking (Elusive Disc). I eagerly await your findings. ;)

I can list all the DVD-As (and you probably have more than I) that I own and tell you what the sampling rates are if you'd like, but I'd prefer to not have to do that. You wouldn't trust me, anyway, so...............

:) It's not a trust issue at all, the problem is you can't make that call relaibly based on your own titles alone. I would probaly agree that a good chunk of the titles out there are indeed 96khz . In any case why don't you get one of those new Onkyo or Denon receivers with HDMI 1.3 and forget about the sampling rate and just enjoy DVD-A and SACD to it's fullest. ;)

:) It's not a trust issue at all, the problem is you can't make that call relaibly based on your own titles alone. I would probaly agree that a good chunk of the titles out there are indeed 96khz.Apparently it IS a "trust issue". Many of my DVD-As are not labelled as to what the sampling rate is. I used my DVD-A player to confirm the sampling rate of every single one of the DVD-As that I listed. Do you trust me? Or not?

As I told you, a large fraction of DVD-As is "classical" and almost all of these will be 96kHz. So the percentage of DVD-As that are 96kHz discs is probably higher than the 81% I found with my small sampling. I also told you that the listed sampling rates at Elusive Disc are reliable. If they DO list a sampling rate in a disc's description, you can count on it being what they say. They are a small seller, not amazon or buy.com.


In any case why don't you get one of those new Onkyo or Denon receivers with HDMI 1.3 and forget about the sampling rate and just enjoy DVD-A and SACD to it's fullest. ;)I cannot afford it right now. And I will buy a 16:9 TV before I replace my current receiver. With a player that bass-manages its analog outputs properly, my current receiver works great for me as I have no HDMI devices, and I DO "enjoy DVD-A and SACD to its fullest". My setup (Denon 3803 receiver/Denon 2200 universal player) HAD worked perfectly fine. The 2200 bass-manages exactly as it should and, in fact, I used it to decode everything, including DVDs and CDs. But gradually the 2200 has become less and less able to read certain CDs and SACDs and I finally became fed-up with it. So, I ordered the OPPO.

Yeah, but you're not ready for "Deep Color" SACD. ;)

Yeah, but you're not ready for "Deep Color" SACD. ;)LOL! :D

I own both the Oppo 980 and a highly modded Modwright Denon 3910 (with 2 channel tube output stage, separate power supply, etc.). Anyway, I have two points to make. One, if you are going to stay analog (as Rinkeldorf mentioned) then the stock Denon 3910 is considerably better sounding, especially in 2 channel mode (and is more flexible since it has dedicated 2 channel outputs). The analog 5.1's are slightly better too. Two, the Oppo 980 is a tremendous sounding machine when using HDMI to an HDMI-capable processor (like my Onkyo pro 885/Integra 9.8). Although I have quite a bit invested in my Modwright 3910 I primarily listen in 5.1 when using my hirez (SACD, DVD-A) discs. The Modwright is now relegated to 2 channel (where the tube mods are) and I listen seldom to 2 channel SACD (my 2 channel listening is primarily redbook via my Modwright Transporter or 2 channel 24/96 DVD which is available via coax from the Oppo to the Modwright Transporter's digital ins). The Oppo, at $169, has proven to be quite a player...assuming you take advantage of HDMI for mch. And even the Oppo can be modded for greater fidelity (diminishing returns, of course).

Rinkeldorf, good luck. For good ole' analog the 3910 is your best bet IMHO.

Thanks Ted. My main useage would be analog. If my pre pro had dual 5.1 inputs, I would have just got a SACD player. I already have a DVD-A player, but I wanted to take advantage of all the multichannel formats. A used 3910 should fit the bill. Still more than an oppo but might have better resale value. Time to start my SACD collection.:D

Time to start my SACD collection.:DGood luck. I think you are catch the wave on the way down.:rolleyes:

I thought I'd wait until there was enough titles to choose from.:p

Apparently it IS a "trust issue". Many of my DVD-As are not labelled as to what the sampling rate is. I used my DVD-A player to confirm the sampling rate of every single one of the DVD-As that I listed. Do you trust me? Or not?

LOL Why are you taking this so personal? I'm an equal opportunity mistruster. :D
But seriously, the amount of misinformation floating on this forum is stagering, so I take a posture to reflect that. Yes I remain sceptical when people posting things as fact based on their limited available data and ignore the possibility what actual data may represent. In any case I won't loose sleep over this as I'm not using the the analogs.

BTW did Oppo say anything about this as a possible fix in the future?

BTW did Oppo say anything about this as a possible fix in the future?Apparently it is "unfixable" via a firmware update. It is a limitation of the chip and it was already a known issue with their other players containing the same chip even prior to the release of the 980. :mad:

My main useage would be analog. If my pre pro had dual 5.1 inputs, I would have just got a SACD player. I already have a DVD-A player, but I wanted to take advantage of all the multichannel formats. You can use an A/V switcher to switch between two 6-channel analog devices. Phillips makes one that is fairly inexpensive and is available at Target, WalMart, etc..

3 component video ins/outs
2 analog R/L audio ins/outs
1 composite video in/out
= 6 analog ins/outs

You can use an A/V switcher to switch between two 6-channel analog devices. Phillips makes one that is fairly inexpensive and is available at Target, WalMart, etc..

3 component video ins/outs
2 analog R/L audio ins/outs
1 composite video in/out
= 6 analog ins/outs

Just make sure you get a MANUAL switch unit, not a powered one. The powered ones like to do funny things to the signal, and I don't mean things that would amuse you or make you laugh.

The Phillips one is manual and has gotten good reviews.

To the OP: There is a very good deal on new NAD T585 universal players on Audiogon right now. $600, which is 1/2 the retail price. I have a T585 in my 2 channel system, and would characterize it as a smooth but detailed player for Redbook, DVD-A and SACD. You can find at least one review on-line. Excellent imaging through my Onix Ref1 speakers (using analog connections to a NuForce prepro). The high-rez stuff sounds amazing, as do the better redbook discs.

I know this isn't in your current list but I thought you should know.

Took the plunge yesterday. I have a 3910 on the way. Although the Oppo is a great bang-for-the-buck player, it all came down to which player did analog better, be it 2 channel or multichannel. Also, the build quality. And a used 3910 isn't that much of a jump in price from the Oppo. It should compliment my system very well. Thanks for all the replys.

Most of my music listening (SACD, DVD-A CD) will be through the analog outputs. Digital for movies. That being said, the 3910 appears to have the upper hand.seriously, you should consider getting both players, especially with the Oppo being only $200.00 . Use the Denon with analog OUT's and digital-coax (or optical) for movies. Use HDMI with Oppo. This way you can switch back-and-forth playing sources.

I own both players (actaully a DVD-3930CI and a DV-980H) and it is so nice being able to play SACD's/DVD-A's in both units (PCM on Oppo via-HDMI, 5.1ch analog OUT's on Denon) and compare sound-quality differences. Also provides for a "back-up" player if one has a problem. I prefer playing CD's through Denon 2ch analog OUT's.

My comments are here: http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/108mitr/

That is why you get the Yamaha 3800 with its one step DSD to analog conversion via a Texas Instruments chip, pure direct sounds fabulous from the 980.

You comment that the only difference betw the Integra and Onkyo Pro processors are the rack mount ears is valid, but another major slip IMHO is the fact that the Integra omits the Pure Direct option, making the 885 the better option, also better understated front panel, if one is willing to put up with both having beta release firmwares with a ton of updates to patch up the engineering gaffes.

And congrats on the article, very professional review.

That is why you get the Yamaha 3800 with its one step DSD to analog conversion via a Texas Instruments chip, pure direct sounds fabulous from the 980.It's an AVR. Besides, how does it do any room EQ in DSD?

You comment that the only difference betw the Integra and Onkyo Pro processors are the rack mount ears is valid, but another major slip IMHO is the fact that the Integra omits the Pure Direct option, making the 885 the better option, also better understated front panel, if one is willing to put up with both having beta release firmwares with a ton of updates to patch up the engineering gaffes.Yes, I was not very familiar with the 885 at the time but, still, I do not agree that it a better choice. So far, I have only had to install one update and that in order to use AudysseyPro.

And congrats on the article, very professional review.Thank you.

Kal,

Let me add my thanks for your recent review. I doubt we are going to see SACD on blu ray players any time soon (although Denon promises it on Gen 2 of their player). My system will under go an upgrade soon. My Amp and speakers are just fine. But, I want to replace my blu ray player (most likely with the new Denon) that has HDMI 1.3a out. Also replace my SACD player (currently a Denon 2910) most likely with an OPPO used simply as an SACD/DVD-A/CD transport, and pre amp with a model that accepts HDMI ver 1.3a.

I hope this next upgrade process will last more than a couple of years. At least I can reduce the insane number of wires connecting all this stuff together.

Are we finally moving towards something that is more consumer friendly? I am absolutely convinced that Pre-Amps/Receivers will ultimately become HomeTheaterPCs with "plug and play" capability (and wireless internet upgrade capability). Simply install it with all componenets connected via HDMI and let it figure out the rest.

wishful thinking????

Marcus

POLK LSi9 + LSiC + LSiFx
POLK dual PSW 505
Outlaw 990 pre + 755 Amp
Samsung 1200 (Blu Ray)
DVD Denon 2910 for SACD
DISH High Def Sat receiver
Mitsubishi WD2000U pj and 120 inch diag screen.
BlueJeans Cables all around.