View Full Version : PS3 and some RGB/YCbCr problems.


ex0du5
02-09-08, 04:06 PM
Well I was in the process of calibrating my Sharp 37inch D40 series, and I've encountered a minor problem.

Well, in regards to the PS3, the common assumption was that RGB Limited is to be used for gaming, and YCbCr is to be used for DVD/Blu-Rays. Well while trying out the AVS calibration disc, I found something odd. When switching in between RGB Limited and YCbCr, there was an enormous difference in black levels, which led me to believe that calibrating for YCbCr (so for Blu-Ray movies and DVDs) would come up with entirely different settings than they should be for games.

And then here's the interesting part, when switching between YCbCr and RGB Full, I noticed they were 100% identical. This would leave me to believe that since my TV is properly calibrated for YCbCr, I should be using RGB Full for games. Can anyone explain the problem here?

Also, no matter what settings I used, my TV would not display blacker than black (although I'm not sure about whiter than white....I could barely see the faint flashing in the white test patterns).

sperron
02-09-08, 05:14 PM
It's most likely the way your TV is handling the different signal formats. On my Sony XBR2 SXRD both RGB limited and YCrCb use 16-235 video levels and have the same exact black level. In your situation I'd force Blu-Rays to output in RGB, pick either RGB full or RGB limited and then calibrate accordingly. This way everything would always look correct no matter if it's a game or a movie.

ex0du5
02-10-08, 11:28 AM
Yeah I'm guessing my TV must be using the Full 0-255 color space. It's odd though, because the Aquos is pretty standard LCD fare.

hwjohn
02-10-08, 05:31 PM
Well I was in the process of calibrating my Sharp 37inch D40 series, and I've encountered a minor problem.

Well, in regards to the PS3, the common assumption was that RGB Limited is to be used for gaming, and YCbCr is to be used for DVD/Blu-Rays. Well while trying out the AVS calibration disc, I found something odd. When switching in between RGB Limited and YCbCr, there was an enormous difference in black levels, which led me to believe that calibrating for YCbCr (so for Blu-Ray movies and DVDs) would come up with entirely different settings than they should be for games.

And then here's the interesting part, when switching between YCbCr and RGB Full, I noticed they were 100% identical. This would leave me to believe that since my TV is properly calibrated for YCbCr, I should be using RGB Full for games. Can anyone explain the problem here?

Also, no matter what settings I used, my TV would not display blacker than black (although I'm not sure about whiter than white....I could barely see the faint flashing in the white test patterns).

This has been discussed a lot and it is confusing and takes a lot of typing to explain, so I won't do it here. You will just have to trust me. Do the following and your BD/DVD cal will match for your games/XMB.

TV:
Make sure your TV is expecting video levels (16-235). This varies from TV to TV as to what the setting is called that controls this.

PS3:
BD/DVD output: YPbPr or Auto
RGB Full/Limited: Limited
Superwhite: On

ex0du5
02-11-08, 10:03 AM
This has been discussed a lot and it is confusing and takes a lot of typing to explain, so I won't do it here. You will just have to trust me. Do the following and your BD/DVD cal will match for your games/XMB.

TV:
Make sure your TV is expecting video levels (16-235). This varies from TV to TV as to what the setting is called that controls this.

PS3:
BD/DVD output: YPbPr or Auto
RGB Full/Limited: Limited
Superwhite: On

That's the problem though. YPbPr is significantly darker than RGB Limited when testing it out with the AVS Calibration disc. If I calibrate the brightness to YPbPr, then RGB Limited is extremely gray and washed out. If I calibrate the brightness to RGB Limited, then YPbPr is crushing blacks. However, if I calibrate it to YPbPr, then RGB Full is just fine (they look identical during Blu-Ray playback).

hwjohn
02-11-08, 10:16 AM
That's the problem though. YPbPr is significantly darker than RGB Limited when testing it out with the AVS Calibration disc. If I calibrate the brightness to YPbPr, then RGB Limited is extremely gray and washed out. If I calibrate the brightness to RGB Limited, then YPbPr is crushing blacks. However, if I calibrate it to YPbPr, then RGB Full is just fine (they look identical during Blu-Ray playback).

What pattern are you using to evaluate this? I would recommend using the first pattern on the disc, the one for black level.

It sounds like something weird might be going on with your TV. Did you find out if it has a setting for Video/PC levels and adjust that accordingly?

Try each of the following and report back what you see on the black level pattern (report the first bar you can see flashing).

Step 1:
Use the settings above and try to make sure that your TV is expecting video levels. Set the brightness correctly (16 should not flash, 17 should barely be visible).

Step 2:
On the PS3 change BD/DVD Output to RGB. Don't change anything else. Go back and look at the pattern. It should be the same.

If the pattern looks the same both times, then you are set up correctly for video levels. If not, report back how Step 2 looks different from Step 1.

ex0du5
02-13-08, 02:44 PM
Well...actually...16 and below are never visible, regardless of the setting I'm using.

Using YPbPr, I set it so that 17 is just barely visible.

If I go to RGB Limited, the reference black is noticeably lighter, and 17 is very visible. If I go to RGB Full, it looks identical to YPbPr.

I haven't noticed any settings on my TV that would indicate whether it's expecting a 16-235 or 0-255 signal.

hwjohn
02-13-08, 03:24 PM
Well...actually...16 and below are never visible, regardless of the setting I'm using.

Using YPbPr, I set it so that 17 is just barely visible.

If I go to RGB Limited, the reference black is noticeably lighter, and 17 is very visible. If I go to RGB Full, it looks identical to YPbPr.

I haven't noticed any settings on my TV that would indicate whether it's expecting a 16-235 or 0-255 signal.

It pretty much has to be something on your set. With superwhite on and YPbPr output you should see BTB and WTW.

Your PS3 firmware is up to date, correct?