I'm looking for a cheap UK video processor that has motion interpolation technology that does 24p->60p (ie. creates in-between frames between the 24p frames).

Are there any examples of these in the UK? (if so, do you have links please)
Thanks in advance.

There is NO processor doing this. There is a processor (cinemateq cinemotion) which can do 480i60 to 60p with Philips DNM technology, but none for HD or even p24.

There is NO processor doing this. There is a processor (cinemateq cinemotion) which can do 480i60 to 60p with Philips DNM technology, but none for HD or even p24.

Oh well, thanks anyway. It seems strange that some LCD HDTVs can do something like that (though they're mostly 120hz not 60hz) but not video processors. It's a shame that I'd have to get a new TV if I wanted such a function. Oh well.:rolleyes:

I'm looking for a cheap UK video processor that has motion interpolation technology that does 24p->60p (ie. creates in-between frames between the 24p frames).

Are there any examples of these in the UK? (if so, do you have links please)
Thanks in advance.


Yes, and no! Take a look at Vantage-HD2 from Calibre (In Bradford) we will take your 24p signal and give you the choice of 24/48/50 or 60Hz output. The less useful bit is the price - MSRP is £1899 with a typical "street" price of around £1600.

More details here;

http://www.calibreuk.com/home_theater.php
http://www.calibreuk.com/Vantagehd2.php


Current UK dealers here;

http://www.calibreuk.com/ukdealer.htm


What you want will not be found cheaply, good quality FRC doesn't come cheap.

Zax

we aren't talking framerate conversions by introducing some kind of cadence. We're talking motion interpolation. And to get back to the original question: the better internal motion compensation processors work on a 100/120Hz basis, while external HDMI connections are limited to 60Hz, so there's simply no way to get a 120Hz signal from a processor to a display without using a proprietary interconnect.

we aren't talking framerate conversions by introducing some kind of cadence. We're talking motion interpolation. And to get back to the original question: the better internal motion compensation processors work on a 100/120Hz basis, while external HDMI connections are limited to 60Hz, so there's simply no way to get a 120Hz signal from a processor to a display without using a proprietary interconnect.

Neither am I! No cadence introduction here - so no 3:2 etc like in telecine. This is not intrinsic to the Realta T2 and all the clone reference designs but our own IP.

Zax

sounds good. Are there any information available online what exactly the HD2 does to a 24p signal ?

Can the same feature be used on a 60p signal (e.g. 60p with 3:2 cadence -> internally decoded to 24p with 1:1 cadence and then output via 60p with the HD2's method) ?

So far I thought that that the 24p-60p conversion was just a compromise for beamers and displays which can't show 24p and not a "better than 24p" solution like it's advertised on TVs with motion compensation.

Neither am I! No cadence introduction here - so no 3:2 etc like in telecine. This is not intrinsic to the Realta T2 and all the clone reference designs but our own IP.So you're saying the the HD2 does motion estimation, computes motion vectors, and interpolates new frames based on those vectors such that moving objects appear at the correct, interpolated position in frames intermediate to the original source frames?

- Dale Adams

I didn't want to be as sarcastic as Dale ;)

I didn't want to be as sarcastic as Dale ;)That wasn't actually intended to be sarcastic. It was intended to make clear exactly what type of frame rate conversion the HD2 performs.

This is a thread about motion compensated frame rate conversion. If the Vantage-HD2 is really doing this, then I suspect a lot of forum users would like to know and Zax's posts are both appropriate and appreciated. (Although I'd be more than a bit bewildered as to why they wouldn't mention a feature like this in the product literature.) However, if it's not doing this, then those same posts are nothing more than misleading marketing.

- Dale Adams

I've seen a few LCDs that do this, including for HD content.

The best implementation I've seen so far is the Philips one (they've been working on it for years and years, I've seen their first attempts probably 3-4 years ago).

It makes your head swim a bit and makes everything look like CCTV or like a camera that has no motion dampning, but after a short while it's much more difficult to watch original 24fps content without it (took me two days to get used to my old display after testing that one).

Other companies have similar implementations, but they are much more problematic. The Sony one is not too bad, and has two levels of implementation. One that does a single intermediate frame (I think it's doubling 48hz -> 96Hz) and one that does a full 120Hz (4 intermediate frames for each real frame). The first one looks kind of mild, but it's very comfortable to watch. The 120hz implemenation produces some artifacts during fast motion, you can actually see it has missing data. A person running fast through a crowd will have segments behind him that are kind of "fuzzy", since the processor doesn't know how to complete the missing data.

Companies like Toshiba, Loewe have similar implemenations too.

Sony VW200 also does this internally, and it does an amazing job - best PQ I've seen from a projector because of it.

External VPs don't do this yet, I'm not sure if they really need to do it as it is bound to arrive on most displays sooner or later. Also, the bandwidth needed to do this is quite a problem (know any displays capable of receiving 1080P 120Hz over HDMI?)

Even the VW200 isn't really doing 120hz - the panel's pixel response times are the same as the gen 1 SXRD panels - 2.5ms rise .. at least, this is what Sony are putting in their documentation. So, 2.5 rise - then fall? Another 2.5? External latency? Other latency?

Cutting a very fine edge.

External VPs don't do this yet, I'm not sure if they really need to do it as it is bound to arrive on most displays sooner or later. Also, the bandwidth needed to do this is quite a problem (know any displays capable of receiving 1080P 120Hz over HDMI?)

1080p@120Hz (with 8-Bit RGB) takes just less than 300MHz of bandwidth whereas the current HDMI 1.3 chips are only capable of 225MHz.

Neither am I! No cadence introduction here - so no 3:2 etc like in telecine. This is not intrinsic to the Realta T2 and all the clone reference designs but our own IP.

Zax Lets be clear about this - you are saying that the Vantage 2 converts 1080p24 to 1080p60 WITHOUT using a 3:2 repeating frame sequence? I would really like to know how that is accompished.

Nick

oferlaor

I have read that philips was the one to invent this technology and i have been trying to look for the oldest philips TV that uses this technology but have gone empty.

I am not yet allowed to post URLs so if you could just search pixelplus on wikipedia it states there that philips has been doing this on their pixelplus features. I have tested several pixel plus enabled TVs and they all don't do trimensionDNM.

I was wondering if you could tell me the model number of the earliest Philips TV that does this.

I need help.

I have seen the samsung LNT4069 and it does it very well on my 360. Gears of War was running in 60p!! Wow!

I have tested also the Bravia tvs and they do it good too but not as good as the samsungs.

Now I'm thinking that Philips should be able to do it better because they are the inventors of this technology and have seen it on WinDVD and works extremely well. That's why I'm trying to look for a philips.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

thank you.

I'm looking for a cheap UK video processor that has motion interpolation technology that does 24p->60p (ie. creates in-between frames between the 24p frames).

Are there any examples of these in the UK? (if so, do you have links please)
Thanks in advance.


windvd with trimension dnm will do it, but only with DVDs.

i have heard that you can use avisynth, and some plugins & scripts to get this smooth motion look for all files types, but i cant find out how to do it.

i've read online, but it seems too difficult for me to understand.

if anyone has a step by step guide on how to do this with
media player classic/avisynth please let me know.

i'd like to see some of my hd mkv files with something similiar to trimension dnm.

thanks

There is NO processor doing this. There is a processor (cinemateq cinemotion) which can do 480i60 to 60p with Philips DNM technology, but none for HD or even p24.

what about this ?

http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=system7sc&search=7sc
http://www.extron.com/company/article.aspx?id=switchervideoscalercombo&tab=technology

"The System 7SC includes Extron's newly developed Dynamic Motion Interpolation (DMI) scaling technology. DMI is an advanced motion prediction and compensation method used to deliver the best aspects of still and motion algorithms. The DMI process results in a new level of image enhancement capability with no loss of image fidelity.

The System 7SC offers industry standard computer-video output rates: 640 x 480, 800 x 600, 832 x 624, 1024 x 768, 1280 x 1024, and 1360 x 1024. For plasma displays, the System 7SC provides plasma output rates: 848 x 480, 852 x 480, 1280 x 768, and 1360 x 765. Also offered are HDTV 480p, 720p, and 1080p output rates."

From my understanding Extron's DMI is only some kind of adaptive deinterlacing to keep high details in non-moving parts of the video image.