I am in the process of trying to determine which would be better to watch my dvd collection once I rip and encode them to h.264. I don't have a hometheater set up currently and mainly will watch movies in my bedroom on a 32" LG LCD. I was leaning towards the ATV but wasn't sure if the Mac Mini was worth the extra money and what it would get me for the $. I have never owned a Mac nor has any of my friends.

With the mini you get a general purpose computer so you can use it for all sorts of things you can't (easily) use the ATV. You can play DVD's without having to rip & transcode them.

If you need component video, then the ATV is great because it has component out. Getting a mac mini to component video will require an external converter box and those are reasonably pricey for good quality.

The combination of the Apple DVD player and Front Row mace for a reasonably compelling HTPC experience on the mini.

If the budget weren't a major factor, I'd choose the mini over the ATV, but if you are comfortable within it's constraints the ATV is good for what it does, especially at its new price point.

There are pluses and minuses to each device. Here's a few that matter to me.

aTV

Pluses - easy hook-up to HDTVs (component and HDMI); iTunes HD rentals (coming soon); price

Minues - not as flexible compared to mini; no VIDEO_TS support

Mac mini

Pluses - full Mac functionality; greater video capabilities (1080p); DVD drive included; with Leopard, VIDEO_TS support in Front Row

Minues - no iTunes HD rentals; price; keyboard/mouse required for most functions (although the remote is suitable for Front Row); may be difficult to get working on some HDTVs (especially ones with overscan)

Personally, I'm looking at the aTV since they have HD rentals now. I can hook it up to the HDTV and have access to iTunes, iPhoto, and movies. The Macbook can go back to being a Mac instead of doubling as a HTMac.

The only thing holding me up is that the aTV doesn't play VIDEO_TS folders, of which I have a bunch. I don't want to rip them to h264 or MPEG-4 ... well, not yet.

pretty much concur with ftaok; I'll make one additional point: the new ATV interface (software coming any day now) does allow access to an iTunes library of personal movies - It's possible (although I'll admit not likely) that TS files will be readable. Even under the small chance, if this is the deal killer for you on ATV, I would at least wait a few days to get verification before committing the other way...

ken

I'd probably get a mini, too. Once they put HDMI in one. If ever.

I'd probably get a mini, too. Once they put HDMI in one. If ever.

I'm not sure what the problem is here. The mini has a mini-dvi connector that can be adapted to plug into an hdmi port on the display. I've got a friend who has one hooked up that way currently.

you can hack the ATV to add codecs but VIDEO_TS won't really jive unless you sync the whole 4-8GB file onto the ATV (IIRC).

What's a decent bitrate to transcode to h.264 (from .vob) to ensure no quality loss? Maybe 1500 or so?

I agree. I was/still am a little leary about encoding all of my movies to h.264 as it takes about 3 hours per movie to do. I realize I could batch them and probably will, but it would be so much easier if I could use VIDEO_TS. I did encode one movie just to see the quality and I was pleasantly surprised with the h.264. It was pretty good. I don't remember the bitrate, but the file size ended up being around 2.6 GB. Which is pretty significant when it comes to disk space. Another question I had about either ATV or the mini is if the movie image is shown or is it text? A picture of the movie box would be so much easier for my kids to navigate.

Thanks for all of the replies so far. I appreciate it.

I've done several h.264 encodes with excellent results as well. I agree the time factor is a pain (hours per movie), but the quality results have been excellent. Bit rate at 1500 works great for most movies I've done ('invisible' differences from videoTS); On some high action prestine movies I found the need for 2000 bit rate to eliminate differences for my eyes (I'm using a 60" plasma display);

My personal decision will be to encode to h.264 for my library; then I'll be getting a few Blu-Ray discs for those prestine - all time favs....

ken
brewan - both ATV and Mini will display cover art in the interface once prepared for their respective formats (videoTS needs a picture file in the folder to display)

I'm not sure what the problem is here. The mini has a mini-dvi connector that can be adapted to plug into an hdmi port on the display. I've got a friend who has one hooked up that way currently.

It's not so much a problem, Linda, but a mythical Mac mini with HDMI would likely pass video and audio over one cable, unlike the mini-DVI that would need an optical audio cable. AVRs with multiple HDMI inputs will just continue to drop in price.

A picture of the movie box would be so much easier for my kids to navigate.

You just introduced what may turn out to be the key determinant, depending on how old your kids are. The mini, no matter how much effort you put into setting it up and networking it, will not be as easy for younger kids to use as an aTV would, which just syncs and draws from your iTunes library wherever it is. It's just with an aTV you have to buy into more of the iTunes ecosystem, and its restrictions. There are a couple of parents here very experienced with HT Macs who bought into the aTV early on, perhaps they'll weigh in here. I've never used an aTV, and personally won't waste any time or quality by converting anything to save space, but there's no doubt in my mind that if I had to set something up for kids to also use, I'd go aTV.

It's not so much a problem, Linda, but a mythical Mac mini with HDMI would likely pass video and audio over one cable, unlike the mini-DVI that would need an optical audio cable. AVRs with multiple HDMI inputs will just continue to drop in price.


That would certainly be useful. Especially if/when macs get a software bluray player and if they could bitstream the highres audio formats over hdmi. But (and I don't really follow this closely so I could just be poorly informed), I've never seen any computer of any flavor that passes audio over hdmi. Would be nice, though!

I've never seen any computer of any flavor that passes audio over hdmi. Would be nice, though!

Right, looking at it selfishly from our Mac home theater perspective, the more optimistic among us view a next-gen mini as a natural evolution of a computer converging (yes, I hate that term, too) with a consumer electronic device. The more optimistic among us also feel that Apple cares about more than generating iTS revenue with aTV, that Apple wouldn't sit pat with a device that's converged about as much as it's ever going to, a la this recent aTV update.

The more cynical among us think it's ALL about iTS revenue, keeping the iTunes ecosystem intact for the masses and as walled off as possible. I definitely tend toward that camp, reading the "iTS HD rental on aTV only" tea leaves as yet another nail in the mini coffin, and think it's much more likely the mini will simply go away, riding off into the sunset with its woeful g wireless, GMA 950, and 2 GB RAM limitation intact. We've seen the next-gen mini and it is the aTV. If the mini actually sticks around under-performing, it'll just be because it makes the aTV, Macbook and iMac look good. The really really cynical among us wonder where Apple will allow Front Row 2 to extend if its development begins to infringe on the sales and acceptance of aTV/iTS rentals.

Then there are those in the middle, eager to remind everyone that the mini somehow has managed to survive much longer than any of the rumor sites predicted, and just might have a surprise or two left.

at least I did say "mythical." :)

I have the following two HT setups -

1. Primary Viewing room - 24" Imac connected to a 60" Sony RPTV & Onkyo receiver. Love it - thanks to VLC it will play everything I need. However, the UI is not that elegant. I go sit at the computer, get the movie rolling on the 60" Sony, then move back to the couch.

2. Secondary TV room - aTV connected to a 32" Vizio LCD. Limited in format and minus surround sound, but from a UI standpoint, the aTV wins hands down. Very elegant, very easy to use.

My 9 & 11 year old daughters each vote for the aTV. They think the iMac is way cool as a computer, and even as a HT machine - but the aTV wins because they never have to ask Dad where/how to find the program they want to watch.

For me, it comes down to high def and surround sound, which for now means iMac in the main viewing room. If that gets solved on aTV, I may reverse my field...

...it's much more likely the mini will simply go away, riding off into the sunset with its woeful g wireless, GMA 950, and 2 GB RAM limitation intact. We've seen the next-gen mini and it is the aTV. If the mini actually sticks around under-performing, it'll just be because it makes the aTV, Macbook and iMac look good. ...
You are looking at the Mini from a home-theatre-centric point of view. My impression is that it is a strategic weapon for bringing in switchers and is configured and priced so they can 'just do it'. (Oh wait. Wrong mass marketing company. Sorry.) Until everyone has switched <G> they need the Mini or something similar. The fact that it does well in home theatre stack is just coincidence.

Apple used to release certain marketing stats to developers. Do they do that anymore?

Craig

You just introduced what may turn out to be the key determinant, depending on how old your kids are. The mini, no matter how much effort you put into setting it up and networking it, will not be as easy for younger kids to use as an aTV would

My "mythical mac mini", i.e. running OSX MythFrontend, is quite easy for kids to use - I'm not sure how much younger you are looking for than my 4-year old, who is completely adept at navigating Myth's menus in order to choose a TV show (from auto generated preview images) or a movie (from a graphical collection of DVD covers).

Thanks to all who replied. I finally decided and bought the atv on Friday. It is wonderful and does exactly what I have been looking for. I have about 300 dvd's and have been encoding them ever so slowly to h.264. I really can't tell the difference. The quality is fantastic on my 32" lcd. I just needed something for my bedroom and eventually my family room. I may end up buying another for the family room. I am curious how the quality will look on a projector. There are a couple of things I wish I could do like sort my shared movies or even have a parental lock on the shared movies but maybe in due time Apple will address this. So far so good. Thanks again.

I wish I could do like sort my shared movies or even have a parental lock on the shared movies but maybe in due time Apple will address this. So far so good. Thanks again.

Is it possible to put the movies on a password protected share? I am considering one of these, and with a baby on the way (due in less than two weeks), I am having to think about these things as well :-)

Any f/u to the last question? I would like to segregate adult type movies (not "adult" movies, btw, just stuff kids aren't allowed to watch) from the kids stuff.