Have at it folks!

Kevin

cool... thanks for the heads up Kevin-
man the download and install takes a while;
this is one major software change...

love the interface...

I count 75 HD movies available presently for rent...

ken

just rented '300' HD DD5.1; Took about 40 seconds to get enough download to be 'ready to play' (I have a 6Gbps dsl connection);

watching now on 60" plasma; picture quality looks excellent to me... DD5.1 is definitely being passed out as my Meridian registers...

so far so good --- very cool....

ken

The AppleTV Take 2 supports 1080p output. :)

The AppleTV Take 2 supports 1080p output. :)

awesome - an unexpected surprise...
if it would only play ts files....

ken

Anybody-

I would be interested to learn how much worse the HD content is compared to HD-DVD/Blu Ray. I simply assume the visual quality is worse due to limited bandwidth compared to disc, but for casual viewing of catalog titles AppleTV sure could be convenient compared to physical rentals so I am considering a purchase.

Any side-by-side comparisons would be appreciated.

There are now four HDMI options: RGB High, RGB Low, YCbCr, and Auto.

Anybody-

I would be interested to learn how much worse the HD content is compared to HD-DVD/Blu Ray. I simply assume the visual quality is worse due to limited bandwidth compared to disc, but for casual viewing of catalog titles AppleTV sure could be convenient compared to physical rentals so I am considering a purchase.

Any side-by-side comparisons would be appreciated.

I'm having great difficulty seeing a difference in 300 (PS3 BD) verses ATV rented HD... An occasional scene will have a bit more softness on ATV, but otherwise I can't see it. In fairness - this movie doesn't have a lot of color contrast... For my money - I'll take ATV for most HD viewing, then use BD for those all time favorites that I watch a lot...

ken

Ken, in the Front Row thread, Hagar found a program called iTunes Drive-in (http://users.skynet.be/fc047310/DriveIn/Home.html) that will let you import your films into iTunes. If that works, you'd be able to play your films on Apple TV.

Excellent - thank you Further;
that looks like it may be the ticket (pun intended) :)

I'll check it out; thanks very much...

ken

will it output hd through component or hdmi only.

will it output hd through component or hdmi only.

Both.

Kevin

Will have to wait until tonight for me. Can't wait to try my first HD download. :D

Will have to wait until tonight for me. Can't wait to try my first HD download. :D
Same here.

Ken, in the Front Row thread, Hagar found a program called iTunes Drive-in (http://users.skynet.be/fc047310/DriveIn/Home.html) that will let you import your films into iTunes. If that works, you'd be able to play your films on Apple TV.

Does this pass-through 5.1 surround sound?

Im on the road this week....can someone check to see if the Photo selection now supports "Events" from iPhoto? Whenever I use to play Photo's it picked the entire library and did not give me the option of choosing various "Events" I had created.

Well, I've got Take 2 running and it works as advertised. It's what I expect from Apple. I've downloaded HD 2010 (Space Odyssey) and it looks fine. I, at first look, didn't see any difference when toggling between 720p and 1080p. If the download is at 720p then perhaps sending it thru is best.

I don't have a BluRay equivalent of 2010 so I can't compare. I expect BluRay to be better, depending on how it is "mastered" to the disc, but the difference, if any, should be minimal. But what I saw is very much HiDef and looks good. :) Much better than their LowDef versions. Not even close.

All in all, two thumbs up. I might just get another.:cool:

Im on the road this week....can someone check to see if the Photo selection now supports "Events" from iPhoto? Whenever I use to play Photo's it picked the entire library and did not give me the option of choosing various "Events" I had created.

You can have it sync all or 'n' most recent events.

Kevin

IT's awesome. Keep up the good work Kevin.

What I think would be cool - be able to control the aTV via an iPhone/iTouch so you could zoom in/out and flick through photos.

And thanks for fixing the TV sort order for multiple seasons!

Ken, in the Front Row thread, Hagar found a program called iTunes Drive-in (http://users.skynet.be/fc047310/DriveIn/Home.html) that will let you import your films into iTunes. If that works, you'd be able to play your films on Apple TV.


Only for apple.:(

Installed the update and bought Transformers. I have to say I'm impressed, but maybe it's cause my expectations were so low. I own this movie on HD DVD and although the HD DVD version looks better, the download does look better than HBO HD etc. The DD 5.1 passthough works fine and sounds better than most cable audio tracks.

There are some obvious compression artifacts in some scenes and the image is softer than the HD DVD version, but it does look really good. It isn't the best, but it is only second to HD DVD/Blu-ray.

Overall I'd say the real problem isn't the quality. There are only about 75 HD movies available an at $4 a pop I just don't see myself using it. Now if Netflix didn't rent Blu-ray movies it'd be a different story, but at $20 a month I only have to rent 5 movies a month to break even and I get better quality video and audio, better selection (~350 movies) and no 24 hour limit viewing limit.

Ben - that's amazingly close to what I saw - (evaluated 300 against the BD version); I placed the video quality better than comcast or satellite HD, maybe equal to direct broadcast which is excellent given the compression involved. Disk is still just a bit better, and I'll get those for favorite movies.

I agree on the 75 movies - although I expect eventually the selection to equal or eclipse disk based given support from 100% studios. The $4 for me is no contest in exchange for the convenience and immediacy... But some who rent a lot I think will agree with you Ben... On balance though I think Apple has hit on the plus side here as a very viable option for many - the initial investment of $229 is as low as any other HD option. And concurrently adds music, photos, utube, and many other features...

All in all - my vote is --good job Apple---

ken

Ken,
Good point, but don't forget there is a 30 day window, so there will always be more movies available on Blu-ray.

Also, you can't buy HD movies and the ATV doesn't play DVDs. So the Blu-ray player actually makes a more all in one device. I wonder how many people will want another box that they just use to rent movies that are already available via their cable co's STB.

As a side note, I can't f'n believe you still can't browse your pictures, that really pisses me off. I originally bought my ATV to access my photos and music from my mac and as it stands now the photos feature is still useless.

Ken,
Good point, but don't forget there is a 30 day window, so there will always be more movies available on Blu-ray.

Also, you can't buy HD movies and the ATV doesn't play DVDs. So the Blu-ray player actually makes a more all in one device. I wonder how many people will want another box that they just use to rent movies that are already available via their cable co's STB.

As a side note, I can't f'n believe you still can't browse your pictures, that really pisses me off. I originally bought my ATV to access my photos and music from my mac and as it stands now the photos feature is still useless.

Ben - these are excellent points. Assuming Blu-ray can get Universal and Paramount, having that 30 day advantage will be key. Otherwise - no argument with your points.

Not sure about the Photo browsing though - I can browse all my iPhoto based albums. The new version now lists and streams all albums. Do you mean browsing by individual pictures?

ken

Ken and Ben, thanks for the updates concerning ATV HD video quality (re: HD-DVD/Blu Ray)

:)

How does the Apple TV do on upscaling DVD-resolution content for a big HDTV? I.e. if I were to rip my DVDs and play them via the Apple TV, how would the quality compare to playing the same disc in my Oppo DVD player?

How does the Apple TV do on upscaling DVD-resolution content for a big HDTV? I.e. if I were to rip my DVDs and play them via the Apple TV, how would the quality compare to playing the same disc in my Oppo DVD player?

Comparing 480i output between ATV and Oppo 970, I think the Oppo outputs a slightly better signal though both are very, very close. After upscaling with my pre-pro, the Oppo still has the edge, but again very, very close.

I have not ripped DVD's to ATV yet. What software do you recommend?

Comparing 480i output between ATV and Oppo 970, I think the Oppo outputs a slightly better signal though both are very, very close. After upscaling with my pre-pro, the Oppo still has the edge, but again very, very close.

I have not ripped DVD's to ATV yet. What software do you recommend?

I have used handbrake with the default AppleTV settings...it is REALLY good quality as compared to DVD's & the size shrinks to about 2.5 GB IIRC. I have a native 720p LCD & I honestly think it looks as good as DVD.

The only thing I noticed (and haven't had time to investigate) is that the subtitles are not shown. For example, I ripped Star Wars Ep1. AOTC, and when watto talks you don't see the translation. I am sure there is a setting. No menus or special features either, but I am sure that is an option.

O by the way, the process takes about 8-12 hours of 100% CPU time to do the re-encode <sigh>.

I have used handbrake with the default AppleTV settings...it is REALLY good quality as compared to DVD's & the size shrinks to about 2.5 GB IIRC. I have a native 720p LCD & I honestly think it looks as good as DVD.

The only thing I noticed (and haven't had time to investigate) is that the subtitles are not shown. For example, I ripped Star Wars Ep1. AOTC, and when watto talks you don't see the translation. I am sure there is a setting. No menus or special features either, but I am sure that is an option.

O by the way, the process takes about 8-12 hours of 100% CPU time to do the re-encode <sigh>.

Do you have a G4? Because my 1.4Ghz Mac Mini will do it in about 8 hours. But my 2.0 Core Duo MacBook can do it in under 2.

Not sure about the Photo browsing though - I can browse all my iPhoto based albums. The new version now lists and streams all albums. Do you mean browsing by individual pictures?


On my old iPod and on my iPhone I can look at an album with tons of thumbnails and select one to look at it. The ATV only lets you watch slideshows. I don't want to watch slide shows, I want to show someone a picture quickly. The annoying thing is that you can browse movies this way, and it's very enjoyable.

How does the Apple TV do on upscaling DVD-resolution content for a big HDTV? I.e. if I were to rip my DVDs and play them via the Apple TV, how would the quality compare to playing the same disc in my Oppo DVD player?

I'd be very surprised if that ATV upconverted better than a Oppo, but my TV upconverts better than the Oppo so I doubt I'd notice either way.

Regardless, the best way would be to rip the original DVD, then upconvert during the encoding to h.264 process. Considering real time isn't critical here, it could really make a difference. So you'd have to be able to set Handbreak up to rip and encode to 720p or use something like ffdshow (windows) but for mac.

Of course the file size would be bigger. I know that VisualHub has an imminent update that will include a ATV w/ AC3 profile. Not sure what would happen if you started with 480p, but you might be able to over ride it.

The bottom line is, it'll take some trial and error to figure out what the best configuration is and in the end I doubt it'd be worth the time to do anything other than Handbrake to ATV at 480p.

I have to say I'm actually interested in the AppleTV. Just a few questions before I buy...

How does it perform as a media server? I'd like to store all of my cd's/dvd's/photos either on the machine or an external hard drive and be able to access them through the AppleTV's GUI. Does it handle VIDEO_TS?

Thanks.

It's an iPod for your TV. It plays whatever is in your iTunes library.

Does it handle VIDEO_TS?
Not directly, but you can use open-source software (example: Handbrake (http://handbrake.fr/)) to easily convert Video_TS to AppleTV compatible mp4. The downside: it does take time to convert one to the other and a large library would be a project.

If you have not done so already, watch the guided tour (http://www.apple.com/appletv/guidedtour/) on apple.com to see how it can act as a home media server for photos, music, and video.

It's an iPod for your TV. It plays whatever is in your iTunes library.

Can't it play stuff from other sources (like files on a ReadyNAS)? I was under the impression it could, but I'm having a hard time finding any reference to that in the specs on the Apple site. If the media has to be in iTunes to stream from the local network, that would be a major disappointment to me...

Can't it play stuff from other sources (like files on a ReadyNAS)? I was under the impression it could, but I'm having a hard time finding any reference to that in the specs on the Apple site. If the media has to be in iTunes to stream from the local network, that would be a major disappointment to me...

Technically no, it cannot. However there are hacks (wiki.awkwardtv.org) to enable features like that. Don't know if they work on Take 2 yet, though.

Can't it play stuff from other sources (like files on a ReadyNAS)? I was under the impression it could, but I'm having a hard time finding any reference to that in the specs on the Apple site. If the media has to be in iTunes to stream from the local network, that would be a major disappointment to me...

No. But that's what I love about it. iTunes *IS* the server and database for all of you A/V content. It syncs your phone, iPod, and aTV. It allows you to stream to other devices or clients that have iTunes installed. You can push music to Airport Express devices.

On my old iPod and on my iPhone I can look at an album with tons of thumbnails and select one to look at it. The ATV only lets you watch slideshows. I don't want to watch slide shows, I want to show someone a picture quickly. The annoying thing is that you can browse movies this way, and it's very enjoyable.

I see what you mean - good call; I agree completely...

ken

No. But that's what I love about it. iTunes *IS* the server and database for all of you A/V content. It syncs your phone, iPod, and aTV. It allows you to stream to other devices or clients that have iTunes installed. You can push music to Airport Express devices.

Yes, that's great. I use AirTunes (with an AirportExpress) all the time. But it doesn't work well for all use cases.

My only computers at home these days are two Powerbooks -- one for me and one for my wife. I like to keep my home network simple (I spent several years as a system administrator, and I don't want to play sysadmin at home). Neither of my computers has a hard drive anywhere near big enough to hold a reasonable movie library (e.g. if I wanted to rip my DVDs for easy access). I have a 1TB ReadyNAS on my network, and it could be used to hold quite a few movies. I suppose I could use iTunes on one of my laptops to play files from the NAS to the Apple TV, but that's undesirable for a few reasons:

The laptops are on wireless, so the streaming speed would be limited by the speed of the wireless network (and streaming over the wireless network would likely noticeably degrade the performance of the network for anyone else who happened to be using it).
It means I have to have a computer open/running when I want to watch a movie (or that I have to plan far enough in advance to transfer files from the computer to the AppleTV, which defeats the purpose of having everything instantly available, and then actively manage the limited space on the Apple TV).
It means that if someone else wants to watch a movie, they have to login to my computer, mount the NAS and fire up iTunes (and know that's what to do in the first place). If I have my computer with me somewhere else, they're SOL.
If my computer is broken or having some problem, I can't watch movies.


Basically, it doesn't provide a seamless "it just works" entertainment experience. That's exactly what has prevented me from getting into media servers or HTPC thus far. Before I'm going to jump in, I want easy, braindead simple, instant access to a large library of my movies in high quality without having to have a computer in the equation. This is actually something that I've always disliked about Apple's "digital hub" strategy (and why Netflix's streaming is uninteresting to me, and on and on) -- I don't want to have to interact with a computer to watch movies or listen to music on my home entertainment system. On the go, it's fine. A computer in the form of something like a TiVo, Kaleidescape or AppleTV, which provides a remote-based on-TV interface to the whole thing, fine. But if I have to manage any of it from my computer, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not criticizing you for using it the way you do (or others for using other solutions). I totally understand why those solutions work well for people. They're just not what I want...

I found this a good reseource, Apple TV 2.0 vs. Blu-Ray, DVD & HD Cable: The Comparison
(http://ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/apple-tv-20-vs-blu-ray-dvd-hd-cable-the-comparison/)

Neat to see the side by side pistures of Apple TV vs Blu-ray, DVD, and HD cable.

But if I have to manage any of it from my computer, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not criticizing you for using it the way you do (or others for using other solutions). I totally understand why those solutions work well for people. They're just not what I want...


Then get the 160 Gig version. Or better yet, buy the 40 Gig version and upgrade it yourself with a 250 Gig drive. With that much storage you can keep all of your music, all of your photographs and about 100 of your favorite movies right on the Apple TV without the need for a computer. You could play music, view slideshows, watch youtube videos, view any of your 100 ripped movies or download any of the movies from the iTunes store -- all with your computer off.

Then get the 160 Gig version. Or better yet, buy the 40 Gig version and upgrade it yourself with a 250 Gig drive. With that much storage you can keep all of your music, all of your photographs and about 100 of your favorite movies right on the Apple TV without the need for a computer.

Yeah, I may end up doing do that. Still, it's not quite the same as 1.5TB of RAID network-attached storage (which can easily be expanded and can also be used for other things, so more flexibility, less waste and less overall cost involved). Also, those ripped DVDs take up a fair amount of space, so I think it would be more like 50 movies in 250GB, assuming there's nothing else using the space. But there's no perfect solution, and this is better than most of the other options, so I may do it...

Brings up a great question (sorry if I missed it in some other thread), but why, oh why, can't we use that USB port to hook up external Hard Drives? Is it the studio's or music houses or Apple or what that wants that functionality eliminated? What is the real reason?

I found this a good reseource, Apple TV 2.0 vs. Blu-Ray, DVD & HD Cable: The Comparison
(http://ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/apple-tv-20-vs-blu-ray-dvd-hd-cable-the-comparison/)

Neat to see the side by side pistures of Apple TV vs Blu-ray, DVD, and HD cable.

I was kind of shocked to see how good the AppleTV pictures looked especially for still frames, however the HD cable signal they used in that comparison is horrible (downright unacceptable in my book). Now in this review: http://gizmodo.com/355843/apple-tv-20-review the AppleTV doesn't fair as well only getting a 5 on a scale of 1-10. Based on AppleTVs specs I would assume its quality would be somewhere around what you get off a good up-converting DVD player (this charts helps: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=962 ) Is the H.264 encoding really good enough to make up for the seemingly way too low 5MBs thruput ( http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html ) on the device itself? On a 720p TV could AppleTV really look almost as good as Blu-Ray? Any thoughts?

Based on AppleTVs specs I would assume its quality would be somewhere around what you get off a good up-converting DVD player

You assume incorrectly. It is significantly better than upscaled DVDs.

oh my - yes, completely agree - on my 60" plasma ATV HD is MUCH better than scaled DVD (and I do it with a lumagen). I put ATV HD not quite as good as BD (but really not far from) and better than my comcast cable HD...

ken

Is the H.264 encoding really good enough to make up for the seemingly way too low 5MBs thruput ( http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html ) on the device itself? On a 720p TV could AppleTV really look almost as good as Blu-Ray? Any thoughts?

HBO is expecting to send their MPEG-4 HD feeds out at 8Mb/sec so 5Mb/sec shouldn't be too bad. Haven't had a chance to view an HD rental yet to can't give my personal opinion.

I agree, on my 60-inch 1080p kuro the ATV looks much better than an upconverted DVD and while it doesn't look as good as Blu-ray it is second in my book. (haven't tried vudo or 360).

I disagree with Gizmodo and was very surprised that they think cable looks better than ATV. Although I have seen some good looking content on cable, most of it suffers from compression artifacts. This is not only because it's MPEG2 and there isn't enough bandwidth, but the way cable encodes and re-encodes opens up many opportunities for artifacts.

Pre-encoded content like the ATV and Blu-ray on the other hand has the advantage of dual pass and other techniques to ensure the copy is as good as the medium allows.

A commenter on my post about this very subject by NTPGrip puts it better than I can.


Multiple passes with an encoder set with the AppleTV HD bitrate as the final, end-all target, is what makes this difference.

Cable, encodes live. At the source, with all the slicing and dicing, overlays, etc. they keep the stuff at a very high bitrate or uncompressed and then re-encode or bitstrip if the codec supports that for distribution. This is live, and one-pass of course(how could it go back for another pass). They may compress only to the max they are allowed/allocated on the main distro sats, but then when directv or a cable co. picks it up they will either bitstrip it more or re-encode again before sending to you. Once again, live, and one pass.

So, all this talk of resolution vs. bitrate. I give you multi-pass processing vs. live single-pass. 5 Mbps Mpeg-4(pick a varient) from cable will never have anything on a 5 Mbps Mpeg-4 file that has been left to cook a while with a clean source, multiple passes, and time.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/13/sizing-up-apple-tvs-hd/comments/10446284/

Personally I'll only watch movies on cable from HD.net movies, the rest of the channels are too much of a hit or miss to be worth my time.

The bottom line is, it'll take some trial and error to figure out what the best configuration is and in the end I doubt it'd be worth the time to do anything other than Handbrake to ATV at 480p.

I will check Handbrake out at 480p and save time. The Gennum does a great job of scaling up as evidenced by Oppo at 480i out.

lalarsons,
One thing you need to watch out for is I'm not sure if handbrake has been updated to maintain the DD 5.1 audio yet. Obviously sine the ATV now supports 5.1 pass through you don't want to get down mixed to 2.0 PL.

Apparently the latest Handbrake svn builds (http://trac.handbrake.fr/changeset/1261) support DD 5.1, but I was unable to successfully compile to try it out.

lalarsons,
One thing you need to watch out for is I'm not sure if handbrake has been updated to maintain the DD 5.1 audio yet. Obviously sine the ATV now supports 5.1 pass through you don't want to get down mixed to 2.0 PL.

The handbrake devs are working on it but is not released yet. 0.9.2 might have the features. They have figured it out actually. Check their developer forums. http://handbrake.fr

Another data point:

Just watched Live Free or Die Hard via ATV (HD download) on my 72"-wide front projection system (Sony VPL-VW50 SXRD projector). I'd rate the picture quality as better than DVD (upscaled to 1080p using the Sony's internal scaler), but not as good as Blu Ray (1080p output via PS3). DD5.1 sound was terrific (I don't have equipment for advanced codecs anyway, so no BR advantage there for me). The convenience factor is huge - I'll clearly be using this quite a bit for movies that I don't want to own (which is most of them). Wish they'd drop the "new release" HD price down, though - I think $4 for newer releases, $3 for catalog titles would be more competitive with store rentals (but, then again, I save at least half a gallon of gas not having to pick up/return at my local Blockbuster, so I guess the real cost of the ATV rental is more like $3.50, $5 minus the $1.50 saved on gas).

John C.

just watched my first HD movie through apple tv, and it was pretty good. not blue ray good, but the convenience was amazing. it started playing within seconds of starting the download. once the library catches up, this will be a great addition to my home theater. it fills the need for those weekends when we are too tired after work, and just want something to fill the screen. the HD podcasts from nasa are great.

Well, I bought another one (160gb) and put it in the LR and put the 40gb in the den for my kid. He could care less about PQ, btw, but it was pretty cool downloading a SDef movie and couple of tv shows for him after my xBox 360 died on him. (Red ring of death-such junkola!:mad:) Anyway, my boy really dug it and we shall use it quite a bit.

Apple is on to something with this thing finally in its more mature form. We need more selection yesterday, though. Personally, I feel that this is what Stevie J wanted it to be all the time and that he just didn't have the studios on board at the time.

Pre-encoded content like the ATV and Blu-ray on the other hand has the advantage of dual pass and other techniques to ensure the copy is as good as the medium allows.

That explains it. So even at only 5Mbs if the encoding process is top notch and optimized you CAN get a really good end result. I was worried that we were going to have another HD-lite box solution here which in the end wouldn't cut it. Hopefully at this quality level ATV will catch on, then more movies will be encoded, the library of titles will grow quickly and the price will come down.

As for me... I'm stuck with 1.5Mbs DSL thus I think actual discs from Netflix arrive faster then the movie would download ;)

Is it just a matter of time before I can play back an iTunes HD movie from iTunes on my HTPC, rather than having to buy a redundant (for me) additional piece of hardware for my rack? Yeah, I suppose I could retire the DVHS deck, and perhaps the HD-DVD player, once a few key titles (Matrix, Bourne) are on Blu. But really, the Apple TV would end up being used like a crippled HTPC -- and I already have a nice HTPC.

I suppose there is a content protection worry? Ugh! Let me rent it in high quality and play it on whatever device and, guess what?, I'll pay! Gladly.

Is it just a matter of time before I can play back an iTunes HD movie from iTunes on my HTPC, rather than having to buy a redundant (for me) additional piece of hardware for my rack? Yeah, I suppose I could retire the DVHS deck, and perhaps the HD-DVD player, once a few key titles (Matrix, Bourne) are on Blu. But really, the Apple TV would end up being used like a crippled HTPC -- and I already have a nice HTPC.

I suppose there is a content protection worry? Ugh! Let me rent it in high quality and play it on whatever device and, guess what?, I'll pay! Gladly.

It's been discussed elsewhere here, but Apple has been denied an HDCP license for use in OS X, so it won't be happening anytime soon.

Apple has been denied an HDCP license for use in OS X, so it won't be happening anytime soon.

Why?

Apple has been denied an HDCP license for use in OS X

do you have any reference for this? That Apple actually applied to Digital Content Protection, LLC? Also, where have you read that Apple was granted an "HDCP" license for the aTV?

Why?

The kernel of OS X is open source, and the necessary modifications needed for HDCP licensing would not be allowed to be released.

do you have any reference for this? That Apple actually applied to Digital Content Protection, LLC? Also, where have you read that Apple was granted an "HDCP" license for the aTV?

Reference is only other discussions on this board, I have no idea where specifically anymore. I have not read that they were granted an HDCP license for the TV, but I assume they have one.

It's been discussed elsewhere here, but Apple has been denied an HDCP license for use in OS X, so it won't be happening anytime soon.

That's interesting. I guess I don't care much about OS X. But since Vista has a protected path that several other vendors are using for protected HDCP content, I'd have thought it was not too tough to incorporate this into iTunes for Vista.

In fact, in my cynical moments, I'd guess they haven't done it yet simply because they perceive leaving the limitation in iTunes as a way to drive the sale of more Apple TVs. Kind of reminds me of how iTunes itself was just a way to offer a "complete solution" and sell more iPods.

The kernel of OS X is open source, and the necessary modifications needed for HDCP licensing would not be allowed to be released.


If this is true, then we'll never see Blu Ray movie playback on a Mac, either, and I seriously doubt that will be the case.

thejokell, Chefklc very reasonably asked you for references for the sweeping statements you are making. So far, you have not provided any.

If we are going to have a reasonable discussion here, please either stop making statements based on nothing more than your impressions or provide evidence that these statements are true. Citing a discussion of this forum, even giving the specific discussion, is not evidence that something is true.

If, however, you cannot find evidence to support your statements, I would appreciate if you would make a note of that.

The kernel of OS X is open source, and the necessary modifications needed for HDCP licensing would not be allowed to be released.This isn't necessarily a fatal flaw for OS X to be denied HDCP support. For instance, my Pace Tahoe PVR is linux based (we all know linux is open source), yet it is HDCP compliant, and is used to tune and display HD content (not to mention, pump a signal out of the firewire port that many use to record the program). I spent a bit of time bug tracking HDCP problems between the Pace Tahoe, and my Westy display, so I'm very familiar with the issues, here. Remember, HDCP is just a secure conduit for handling HD content once it has been decrypted, and is ready to stream. So HDCP doesn't need to stretch the breadth of the path from BD player to display card interface.

So if set top box manufacturers (open source, linux-based) can put out an HDCP conduit for HD content, then so could Apple, and the problem lies elsewhere. I'd suspect it is with the AACS portion of the protected path equation for Blu-ray, not the HDCP portion. HDCP and AACS are not synonymous.

I'd suggest that this angle could take this thread way off topic. It's a great discussion, and one that could prove very enlightening. So why doesn't someone start a new thread, if they are really interested in going in this direction? I'd do it, but the last time I tried, I got shot down by a bunch of loud Windows AACS trolls.

A good point to start this discussion could be with this very fine ars technica article: "AACS DRM tentacles reach far into operating systems". (http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/aacs-tentacles.ars) Take it and run.

Addendum: I should have mentioned that the AppleTV is HDCP compliant, as people have reported that hooking it up to non-HDCP compliant displays via HDMI (using an HDMI -> DVI adapter or cable) results in an HDCP error message when trying to display HD content. And the AppleTV OS is nothing less than a variant of Mac OS X. So again, the HDCP argument put forth doesn't wash.

But the interesting question then becomes, what form of drm is Apple using with the AppleTV HD downloads? A Fairplay variant? An AACS variant? Anybody know?

But the interesting question then becomes, what form of drm is Apple using with the AppleTV HD downloads? A Fairplay variant? An AACS variant? Anybody know?

I have another question: is AppleTV now a closed box? If the AppleTV is connected to a network, can another computer see the files and copy them? If not, wouldn't that be a form of DRM?

I should have mentioned that the AppleTV is HDCP compliant, as people have reported that hooking it up to non-HDCP compliant displays via HDMI (using an HDMI -> DVI adapter or cable) results in an HDCP error message when trying to display HD content.

However, what I find interesting is that no such error message pops up when connected via component to an HDCP or non-HDCP HDTV, and I couldn't find anything in the new iTunes TOS which applies to the aTV download model and moving HD content over component. Now, as most around here know, normally an HDCP compliant upscaling dvd player with DVI or HDMI will not ALSO upscale over component, that output would be limited to 480p. That was presumably a condition of the HDCP license. But a handful of upscaling dvd players with digital out (capable of an HDCP handshake with an HDCP display) that also upscaled to 720p/1080i over component snuck through. I still have two around the house, a Zenith DVB-318 and a Toshiba SDV592 .

So, since we know the aTV can output 720p iTS HD content over component, and not be subject to an HDCP handshake, I think the situation is a little more complex. We're still waiting for Apple to reveal the rest of its strategy beyond aTV downloads, and the implications which come along with it. Which is what prompted me to wonder about jokell's assumptions. Look over who has gotten an HDCP license and you won't see Apple mentioned specifically anywhere, especially the aTV. So if an HDCP license is coming into play it's via a component or chip or some other partner that we haven't read about yet or seen disclosed. So, I think it's natural and healthy to wonder, and if anyone had seen a reference or had facts please share--we should go beyond assumptions being made and repeated on discussion threads. It also seems extremely unlikely to me that Apple formally applied for an HDCP license for OS X, let alone was denied--again, someone would have heard that they applied, and it doesn't seem an Apple-like thing to do: Apple lines its ducks up, does what it wants to do and tends to avoid entanglements that aren't to its advantage. Some CE industry-funded LLC with a swanky address in DC isn't going to stand in its way. Why do you think we don't have an Apple DVR and why they've steered far away from issues like CableCARD and HD-DVD/Blu-ray?

Look over who has gotten an HDCP license and you won't see Apple mentioned specificallyI looked there, too. There is a note, though, that says that the only listed licensees are those that want to be listed. So plenty of wiggle room, if Apple wanted to cover its tracks a bit.

On Apple's Tech Specs for the appleTv, it lists HDMI with HDCP or component needed. So they acknowledge the need for HDCP on the display side. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are licensed on the HDMI side for the appleTV.

For the user reporting on the HDCP problem over HDMI -> DVI (I can't for the life of me find where I read it), they said that when they called Apple Support, they were told to use component. But given that it was a 24" Gateway LCD with no component, there wasn't any component inputs. Apple said to get a component -> DVI adapter. Go figure. It would be the same for a Cinema Display. You'd think that Apple would eventually want to support the appleTV with their own displays--one way or the other.

Kevin: This is your thread. Why don't you give us the straight scoop on hdcp and drm for the Apple TV? :D

For the user reporting on the HDCP problem over HDMI -> DVI (I can't for the life of me find where I read it), they said that when they called Apple Support, they were told to use component. But given that it was a 24" Gateway LCD with no component, there wasn't any component inputs. Apple said to get a component -> DVI adapter.

Was it this guy:

http://db.tidbits.com/article/9469

Funny that some of the folks writing books about Mac home theater topics and the aTV don't actually own an HDTV.

Was it this guy:

http://db.tidbits.com/article/9469

Funny that some of the folks writing books about Mac home theater topics and the aTV don't actually own an HDTV.Yep, that was it. Guess I mangled the details a tad. It was a Dell. I don't know why a place like Tidbits would let a novice ht guy write a piece. Oh well.

I come late to this thread, so if what I am going to ask here has already been answered, a thousand pardons. I did read through the thread but there are already a lot of posts so I easily could have missed something pertinent.

Because of my HT setup, if I buy an Apple TV, it will have to be connected to the Internet via my 802.11g wireless network. Will I be able to receive and use streaming HD video with no problems, or is a wireless connection a no-no for streaming HD?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

I have another question: is AppleTV now a closed box? If the AppleTV is connected to a network, can another computer see the files and copy them? If not, wouldn't that be a form of DRM?

On mine it lets me send content and see it but will not let my mac play or
use it .

my movies stream wireless without a problem. of course, i use the airport extreme, i think it's N. my ps3 streams wireless without a problem too, and it's a g. haven't tried hd for my ps3.

I come late to this thread, so if what I am going to ask here has already been answered, a thousand pardons. I did read through the thread but there are already a lot of posts so I easily could have missed something pertinent.

Because of my HT setup, if I buy an Apple TV, it will have to be connected to the Internet via my 802.11g wireless network. Will I be able to receive and use streaming HD video with no problems, or is a wireless connection a no-no for streaming HD?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

my movies stream wireless without a problem. of course, i use the airport extreme, i think it's N. my ps3 streams wireless without a problem too, and it's a g. haven't tried hd for my ps3.
Thanks, with that information I may give Apple TV a whirl. I wish it were possible to buy one with a return privilege, but BestBuy doesn’t carry them and I have seen no indication that either the Apple Store or Amazon will give refunds for returned products that are not defective. That's too bad, too, because there is an Apple Store less than two miles from my house.

I thought about the Airport extreme but I was afraid to try one because I use both a 5 year old PowerBook G4 and an equally aged Linksys Wireless Access Point with my TiVo Series3 DVR, on my wireless network. Both have only 802.11g and it is my understanding that if any g devices are on a wireless network the network can’t achieve n speeds, even if the router and some of the wireless devices are n.

I still would like to learn how others have fared with streaming HD from an Apple TV via an 802.11g wireless network.

I have a wireless G (belkin router) with WPA-PSK encryption, and I have no issue streaming even though the ATV is upstairs in a bedroom closet. I get a couple bars (as reported by the ATV) on the signal meter. The sole HD movie I have bought had no major issues. We started playing it about 3 minutes after I bought it. We watched it live, with no glitches until I started using my laptop & sucked up some of my internet connection. I believe I could have avoided this by letting it buffer for a half hour before starting to watch. Either way, it just paused for a minute or two & rebuffered & started playing again with no issues. I have yet to download any more HD movies, but I would be interested to see how long it took to download the entire thing.

Long story short, it took 3 minutes to buffer up enough to start playing with no issues, assuming no other network usage. I have a 5 mbps cable connection. The g-network seemed to pose no issue. it seemed to be more of a function of internet usage/speed.

I have a wireless G (belkin router) with WPA-PSK encryption, and I have no issue streaming even though the ATV is upstairs in a bedroom closet. I get a couple bars (as reported by the ATV) on the signal meter. The sole HD movie I have bought had no major issues. We started playing it about 3 minutes after I bought it. We watched it live, with no glitches until I started using my laptop & sucked up some of my internet connection. I believe I could have avoided this by letting it buffer for a half hour before starting to watch. Either way, it just paused for a minute or two & rebuffered & started playing again with no issues. I have yet to download any more HD movies, but I would be interested to see how long it took to download the entire thing.

Long story short, it took 3 minutes to buffer up enough to start playing with no issues, assuming no other network usage. I have a 5 mbps cable connection. The g-network seemed to pose no issue. it seemed to be more of a function of internet usage/speed.
I have a Belkin pre N router, although I have no 802.11n rated devices. I bought it because it has exponentially greater range than conventional g routers. In that regard, it’s been great, even at g speeds.

Based on some stuff I have been reading in the various Apple TV threads, even 802.11g speeds exceed the throughput from most cable companies. For example, based on CNET’s bandwidth meter, my cable modem’s max output from Cox OKC is less than 6.0 Mbps, sometimes a lot less. Even 6.0 Mbps is significantly slower than that of a g wireless network.

However, what I find interesting is that no such error message pops up when connected via component to an HDCP or non-HDCP HDTV, and I couldn't find anything in the new iTunes TOS which applies to the aTV download model and moving HD content over component. Now, as most around here know, normally an HDCP compliant upscaling dvd player with DVI or HDMI will not ALSO upscale over component, that output would be limited to 480p. That was presumably a condition of the HDCP license.


The 480p requirement is a limitation of CSS, not HDCP. AACS on the other hand has the Image Constraint token, which if evoked will cause component outputs to be downrezed to 540p. All the studios have expressed their desire to NOT use this and it has never been set on a retail disc. And even when it is one day, it will me labeled so you'll know before you buy it.


So if an HDCP license is coming into play it's via a component or chip or some other partner that we haven't read about yet or seen disclosed.

HDCP has nothing to do with component, it is a digital transmission DRM.


Why do you think we don't have an Apple DVR and why they've steered far away from issues like CableCARD and HD-DVD/Blu-ray?

CableCARD is a different animal than HD DVD/Blu-ray. Blu-ray requires AACS and thus HDCP, while CableCARD requires CableLabs certification, this is far more complicated than supporting AACS, which is why you can build your own XP computer to play Blu-ray discs, but you can't build your own Vista PC to watch CableCARD protected programming.

Funny right? Like cable's bad quality programming is more valuable than a near perfect 1080p feature film.

I have another question: is AppleTV now a closed box? If the AppleTV is connected to a network, can another computer see the files and copy them? If not, wouldn't that be a form of DRM?

No, you can't copy files from the ATV over the network. But I have removed the drive and copied a file and although iTunes recognized it was a rental, when I tried to play it, I received an error indicating that it was not authorized for this device.

Thanks, with that information I may give Apple TV a whirl. I wish it were possible to buy one with a return privilege, but BestBuy doesn’t carry them and I have seen no indication that either the Apple Store or Amazon will give refunds for returned products that are not defective. That's too bad, too, because there is an Apple Store less than two miles from my house.

I thought about the Airport extreme but I was afraid to try one because I use both a 5 year old PowerBook G4 and an equally aged Linksys Wireless Access Point with my TiVo Series3 DVR, on my wireless network. Both have only 802.11g and it is my understanding that if any g devices are on a wireless network the network can’t achieve n speeds, even if the router and some of the wireless devices are n.

I still would like to learn how others have fared with streaming HD from an Apple TV via an 802.11g wireless network.
I am using the ae just fine with mine set a g which is still faster than my
internet.Takes about an hour and a half for hd movie on a supposed 6Mbps.

Thanks, with that information I may give Apple TV a whirl. I wish it were possible to buy one with a return privilege, but BestBuy doesn’t carry them and I have seen no indication that either the Apple Store or Amazon will give refunds for returned products that are not defective. That's too bad, too, because there is an Apple Store less than two miles from my house.


Best Buy does carry them, but they are sparse in the stores around here. I asked the clerk at my local one and he found about 5 in the state of Colorado. The item was active in their system and they did expect to get more in stock at some point.

I never heard that the Apple Store does not take any returns. I'd ask them about that. I got my unit at Circuit City about 10 days ago. They had more in their system locally than did Best Buy.

The Best Buy here has them,though its not listed on their website.

The Apple Store has a return policy but there is a small restocking fee.

The Apple Store has a return policy but there is a small restocking fee.
I finally got around to researching both Apple’s and Amazon’s return policies today. Apple will give you a no questions asked refund, if you return a product within 14 days but the return is subject to a 10% restocking charge. Amazon has the same policy but leave open the possibility that the restocking charge may be greater if the product has been damaged by the buyer or is not returned with all of the original packing materials. The buyer also pays the cost of return shipping

If I buy an Apple TV I will get it from Amazon instead of the OKC Apple Store because I can save a few bucks that way. Thanks to this thread, I am now feeling a lot better about the likelihood of streaming HD video working satisfactorily via my 802.11g wireless network, so I am convinced that the chances I might have to return it are remote.

If I do pull the trigger and buy an Apple TV, I’ll report on my experience with it later.

If being able to return it without a restocking fee was a concern, you could always buy it from Costco. I see aTVs there all the time.

I am now feeling a lot better about the likelihood of streaming HD video working satisfactorily via my 802.11g wireless network

I wouldn't be. Home network performance and reliability varies.

If being able to return it without a restocking fee was a concern, you could always buy it from Costco. I see aTVs there all the time.
That might be a good idea except that there are no Costco stores in OKC.

I am now feeling a lot better about the likelihood of streaming HD video working satisfactorily via my 802.11g wireless network
I wouldn't be. Home network performance and reliability varies.
If one looks hard enough, it’s always possible to see spooks and goblins under the bed – whether they are really there or not. :) Nevertheless, I’ve paid careful attention to this thread and am about ready to risk a $32.50 restocking fee in the unlikely event an Apple TV would not perform adequately in my setup. Of course, if you know something I don’t, I would love to hear it.

I wouldn't be. Home network performance and reliability varies.

Pay no attention, it works just fine.

Pay no attention, it works just fine.
Thanks, I had already come to the conclusion that my wireless network would likely work well with an Apple TV. Thus, I’ll probably be buying one soon.

That might be a good idea except that there are no Costco stores in OKC.


You could also try Sam's Club they have them in stock where I live

Any audiophiles out there using this? I primarily want it to stream TOP QUALITY music as Apple Lossless or uncompressed PCM and get results the same as the CD.

Anyone done testing of this? I make no compromise when it comes to audio on my main system. I'd love to ditch the CD and have a media server but not if it doesn't give me great results.

Thanks!

Yes. I store my music on a NAS in Lossless format and then stream to my HT setup via the ATV. I could not be more happy of never having to put a cd in a changer again! You also get nice album art to boot!

Thanks for your insight. I can't decide if I want to get an Apple TV or just use my PS3 for streaming. Just DL'd MediaLink from Nullriver and works like a charm.

For me, music streaming is the most important. All the other stuff is just gravy.

IMO, If you are looking for a networked music player with a top quality D>A converter, you have to step up to something like the Logitech / Squeezebox Transporter.

On the other hand, if you already have a top quality external D>A converter, most of these devices are fine via bitstream output.

You could also try Sam's Club they have them in stock where I live
Thanks, I'll check Sam's out.

Any audiophiles out there using this? I primarily want it to stream TOP QUALITY music as Apple Lossless or uncompressed PCM and get results the same as the CD.

Anyone done testing of this? I make no compromise when it comes to audio on my main system. I'd love to ditch the CD and have a media server but not if it doesn't give me great results.

Thanks!

I've been 'audiophile' for many years through the different transports (still use vinyl on occasion); I'm using iTunes- Apple lossless to AppleTV, then digital out to my Meridian DSP setup; Audio quality is my #1 priority and this setup provides a system indistinguishable to full CD quality, with all the access advantages - I would highly recommend it;

I do agree with Nathan regarding D/A - I assume you have good D/A in your amp/receiver setup; If not, you may look at Squeeze box or even better - look at replacing your external D/A and stick with iTunes/ATV because of the plethora of other benefits that offers (movies rentals, photos, utube, etc., etc., etc.)

ken

I finally broke down and picked up an Apple TV this week-end. For a couple of reasons:

Finally can rent HD movies (not instant gratification, but more instant than anything like NetFlix or Blockbuster), great price at my local Sam's club ($XXX.XX--pm me if you want to know), and, as a longtime "Mac-guy", it was killing me not to own one!

Anyway, got it hooked up in a few short minutes, downloaded the new OS upgrade and let 'er rip. Watched pretty much all of the HD trailers and was very impressed with the pq. No, it's not Blu-Ray, but it looks as good/sometimes better than what I get off of my Dish HD. The image appears to be decidedly HD. I'll let everyone else fight over bit rate and all the other math; I'm just saying it looks pretty darn good (this is on a 106 inch screen/ 720p Panasonic projector).

I have to say SD was a bit disappointing. Kind of odd. The image was free of the annoying blocking and artifacting I get when watching standard def Dish, but was very soft. So much so I found it distracting. My upconverting Oppo is still vastly superior when it comes to SD. Still, it's watchable, and the kids won't care— or notice. A great spur-of-the-moment rental device for them.

Does a great job streaming all my music and pics. Really slick in how it handles all that. Very "Mac-like." The pics looked far better than I ever imagined. Great to see them so sharp and clear— and large!

With all my love of HD, it's funny how it's been used most so far— watching horrendously low-def video on You-Tube with the kids. They love being able to see all the 80's videos and Weird Al and that kind of stuff all together in the Theatre Room. We've had a ball with it.

I'll be renting something in HD in the next few days, I'll get back after that for anyone who is interested. If the quality is what I have seen with the trailers, it's a home run (and btw, I tend to be fairly snobby on pq-- not "Blu-Ray or nothin' snobby," but pretty fastidious about what I'm watching).

If you're considering one, I think you'll be very pleased with it. I certainly am!

we've talked about specific prices, vendors and deals in this forum since day one...and welcome to our little club, by the way.

Oh! Must be just the pj section!

In that case, Sam's had it for 189.00, which I couldn't pass up. Dang instant gratification! :)

OK, I just now pulled the trigger, too and ordered a 160Gb Apple TV from Amazon. After I receive it, the next step will be getting it to peacefully coexist with my old Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver, with which I have a love hate relationship. It’s very capable but its user interface is brutally hard to tame, so I know in advance that getting it to work with the Apple TV will not be a trivial exercise.

I decided to order now because Amazon had only four left, so I thought I had better strike while the iron was hot. I was also encouraged to do so by the fact that between the two BestBuy stores I went to today, they had only one Apple TV between them and it was the 40Gb model.

EDIT: Before I finally ordered from Amazon earlier this afternoon, I had checked both local Sam's Club stores this morning. Neither had the Apple TV in stock, although one of them had a display model. After I asked a Sam's employee why there was no stock, although a display model was on the shelf, he removed the display, saying that there was no telling when they would get them for sale. Anyway, it was a 40Gb model and I wanted a 160Gb model.

I just joined the crowd too with the 160mb version of AppleTV. After one evening of playing with it, I am impressed.

Oh! Must be just the pj section!

In that case, Sam's had it for 189.00, which I couldn't pass up. Dang instant gratification! :)

I wonder if thats' at all sam's because their still $260 in my neck of the woods. $189 is a petty good price

Yeah, I thought that was an offer I couldn't refuse. I'll upgrade the 40 Gb drive as soon as I figure out the absolute easiest way to do it. That, or send it off to WeakKnees or some such place.

I agree that Sam's price of $189 for a 40Gb Apple TV was the deal of the century. I'm sorry that I missed out on it. Still, the 160Gb model that I ordered from Amazon yesterday afternoon shipped later that day and is scheduled for delivery tomorrow.

I just noticed that Apple TV doesn't have gigabit Ethernet, or an optical audio port. Wouldn't it benefit from these additions?

Also, the new Time Capsule Base Station seems to based on the new "n" Airport Extreme, and both of these do have gigabit Ethernet. However, neither has an optical audio port. So, doesn't this mean that you still have to keep an Airport Express connected to the AV Receiver to use AirTunes music playback. This seems like some brain dead omissions to me, and redundant hardware.

These Apple TV omissions, coupled with the HDCP that still is missing from Apple displays tells me that some interesting HDTV-related hardware refreshes still are coming this year.

I just noticed that Apple TV doesn't have gigabit Ethernet, or an optical audio port. Wouldn't it benefit from these additions?

Also, the new Time Capsule Base Station seems to based on the new "n" Airport Extreme, and both of these do have gigabit Ethernet. However, neither has an optical audio port. So, doesn't this mean that you still have to keep an Airport Express connected to the AV Receiver to use AirTunes music playback. This seems like some brain dead omissions to me, and redundant hardware.

These Apple TV omissions, coupled with the HDCP that still is missing from Apple displays tells me that some interesting HDTV-related hardware refreshes still are coming this year.

Well it's got 10/100 ethernet, which is more than acceptable for what it's being used for. Other than the first sync you wouldn't really need faster networking.

And it *DOES* have an optical audio output.

Well it's got 10/100 ethernet, which is more than acceptable for what it's being used for. Other than the first sync you wouldn't really need faster networking.

And it *DOES* have an optical audio output.
So it does:

http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

I've been using the optical output now for a long time to feed some DD5.1 iTunes files I have; Now under Take 2 the optical port works great for the DD5.1 rentals... Also, I use 'n' wireless to stream HD movies and everything else - don't even use the Ethernet port, but I agree the 100Mbps would be more than it would use anyway...

ken

I've been using the optical output now for a long time to feed some DD5.1 iTunes files I have; Now under Take 2 the optical port works great for the DD5.1 rentals... Also, I use 'n' wireless to stream HD movies and everything else - don't even use the Ethernet port, but I agree the 100Mbps would be more than it would use anyway...

ken

Same here but i have hooked the ethernet cable to initial load music and
photos straight from my ae to mac book pro.

^^^
oztech - yes I can see the advantage for those times; I would guess the next version will have GB ethernet - for standardization if nothing else.

ken

So, the Apple TV does have Optical Out -- my mistake. To arrive at my erroneous conclusion, I inspected the back ports of one too many wireless devices and got confused. I do think the gigabit Ethernet omission is a mistake though. Why create any potential bottleneck to move files between gigabit computers, through gigabit switches on cat 6 cabling? It's just not forward-thinking.

And I do wonder if the new Time Capsule and Airport Extreme should have offered an Optical Audio Out port, which make them more versatile when positioned around the house. Since they don't, don't you have to keep an Airport Express AND one of these in the home entertainment center? This also means you can't just position them in a different room (with another stereo and speakers) without also putting an Airport Express in that room, doesn't it? If so, it seems like we're paying extra for some hardware redundancy. Or does the Apple TV provide this missing capability, and at least be used to replace the Airport Express in the home entertainment center?

This also means you can't just position them in a different room (with another stereo and speakers) without also putting an Airport Express in that room, doesn't it?

Geo--the recent aTV software update added Airtunes functionality, which probably explains why Apple never worried about updating the Airport Express. With the price drop, and units readily available for $199, you'll see more and more folks drop an aTV into other locations around the house merely as an iTunes audio extender. The rest, video, rentals, etc will just be gravy. if you think about it a little, this is relatively forward-thinking on Apple's part--leveraging something a lot of folks are already familiar with--iTunes and iPods--into something more, stealth critical mass, if you will.

Geo--the recent aTV software update added Airtunes functionality, which probably explains why Apple never worried about updating the Airport Express. With the price drop, and units readily available for $199, you'll see more and more folks drop an aTV into other locations around the house merely as an iTunes audio extender. The rest, video, rentals, etc will just be gravy. if you think about it a little, this is relatively forward-thinking on Apple's part--leveraging something a lot of folks are already familiar with--iTunes and iPods--into something more, stealth critical mass, if you will.

So, is Apple TV also a router, like the Airport Express? Can it also act as a bridge to extend wireless signals?

I also just came across this interesting little gem at Daring Fireball:

PlayStation 3 DVR Doesn’t Use DRM ★
PlayTV, the PlayStation 3’s DVR/PVR (that’s not coming to the States yet), will record television to MPEG2 files that can be easily copied off the system to any storage medium you’d like. That’s right, no DRM.

http://www.daringfireball.net

Another question: Apple TV standard definition TV (SDTV) downloads seem to be limited to stereo, rather than DD 5:1 as broadcast by digital cable. Why? Is this a licensing issue, a software decoding issue that Apple can fix in a future Apple TV update, or a problem that will require new hardware?

So, is Apple TV also a router, like the Airport Express? Can it also act as a bridge to extend wireless signals?

No, it just shares the Airtunes functionality + optical out of an Airport Express: the aTV should show up in the iTunes output menu as a destination, and you can't send from an aTV to another Airport Express. But there's no reason why you couldn't do Airtunes simultaneously to an aTV and any Airport Express you may have around the house.

Another question: Apple TV standard definition TV (SDTV) downloads seem to be limited to stereo, rather than DD 5:1 as broadcast by digital cable. Why? Is this a licensing issue, a software decoding issue that Apple can fix in a future Apple TV update, or a problem that will require new hardware?

No, not a licensing issue. The mp4 wrapper used by the Apple encodes doesn't 'officially' support 5.1, although nothing prevents it technically; For AppleTV HD, Apple implemented a 'non-standard' version of the wrapper. I suspect this will become part of the standard at some point; And I would guess they might eventually add this for SD movies - although they might just keep it as an additional 'up sell' for HD.

ken

I received my 160Gb Apple TV from Amazon late yesterday afternoon. I was able to get it connected and configured in about half an hour, which was gratifying. I have downloaded a couple of HD movies, “The Assassination of Jesse James” and “Michael Clayton.” It only took a little over an hour each to download them via Cox OKC’s high speed Internet service. I watched Michael Clayton this morning; its PQ was comparable to what I have seen with both cable and OTA and its sound was out of this world. Whether that was because of particularly good recorded sound or something else, I can’t say. I can say, though, that it sounded better to me than most of the soundtracks on movies I have watched from HBO, Showtime and Universal HD.

I gave such high marks to the quality of Apple’s HD movie offerings that I considered canceling my HBO and Showtime subscriptions. I changed my mind, though, when I saw that the price for both movie channels totals $12 a month. That’s not bad, so I guess I’ll keep them.

you mentioned an hour to download... how long before playable? I can play after just a few seconds even though it's not completely downloaded; Using a 6Gbps service though...

ken

you mentioned an hour to download... how long before playable? I can play after just a few seconds even though it's not completely downloaded; Using a 6Gbps service though...

ken
I was aware that playback during downloads worked well but decided to actually try to see how much time it took to load an entire HD movie under optimal circumstances, i.e. not doing anything else on the Internet during the download. I was pleased by how quick it was. I haven't checked out starting playback during the download but am optimistic that it would be just fine.

My download speeds are all over the lot. Over the past couple of days I have checked them frequently, using three different bandwidth meters. The speeds have ranged from a high of 7 Mbps to a low of less that 1 Mbps. Thus, I never have any idea what my actual download speed will be at any given time

you mentioned an hour to download... how long before playable? I can play after just a few seconds even though it's not completely downloaded; Using a 6Gbps service though...

ken

Almost 3 min but i prefer to download the whole thing then watch it the
next day.

gotcha - thanks gwsat and oztech-
just wondering... I usually start playing within a minute or so and have never had a disruption or issue - surprisingly...

thanks much-
ken

gotcha - thanks gwsat and oztech-
just wondering... I usually start playing within a minute or so and have never had a disruption or issue - surprisingly...

thanks much-
ken
It gets kind of scary around my neighborhood as to how long the cable stays
up and running.

It gets kind of scary around my neighborhood as to how long the cable stays
up and running.

:)

all those campaign ads you're getting now flooding your bandwidth too I suppose... :)

:)

all those campaign ads you're getting now flooding your bandwidth too I suppose... :)

It does not help when they are sending cable,internet,phone and alarm
all on the same cable.

Checked it by clock today and noticed however long the movie is thats how long it
takes to download at 6mbps.

K, so how do I get movies on my mac to play on the ATV? Do I get a program (if there is one) and convert them to the h264 or do I hack the ATV to play movies in my itunes?

Handbrake

http://handbrake.fr/

Handbrake is great, but Visualhub is more versatile, but not free.
http://www.techspansion.com/visualhub/

I didn't see it mentioned here, but is it possible for an AppleTV to play ripped DVDs saved in another Mac's Movies folder in the same way that Leopard's Front Row now provides this functionality?

If so, that would be a real selling point to many of my friends...

Dennis

I found an odd problem with my Apple TV today that may or may not have been a bug. Last night I was watching a podcast right before bedtime. Instead of finishing, I put it on pause and changed my HT setup back to TiVo with my Harmony Remote before turning off the system. Then, this morning, I discovered that all of the Apple TV’s controls had stopped working. In order to clear up the problem I had to do a cold reboot. Fortunately, this got the job done and my Apple TV has been working perfectly ever since.

The reason I said that my problem may or may not have been a bug is because of the odd way my Harmony handles changing the activity from Apple TV to another: when it leaves the Apple TV activity, it puts the Apple TV in standby. I had never placed it in standby voluntarily but that’s the way the Harmony programming works. I now make it a point to always leave Apple TV showing the main menu. This seems to have done the job. Can anyone suggest what might have caused my problem? Do I need to worry about changing activities while my Apple TV is downloading a program? If so, that would be inconvenient, to say the least.

I didn't see it mentioned here, but is it possible for an AppleTV to play ripped DVDs saved in another Mac's Movies folder in the same way that Leopard's Front Row now provides this functionality?

If so, that would be a real selling point to many of my friends...

Dennis

Yep, in fact that's how I have all my movies set up. They're on a Mac Mini that does nothing but serve up videos now. ;)

Handbrake

http://handbrake.fr/

K, I'm clueless here, but handbrake converts mpg2 to mpg4? The ATV only supports h264. Am I missing something? I have a few mg4s and iTunes were OK but the ATV would not accept them.

when it leaves the Apple TV activity, it puts the Apple TV in standby.You can always set your Harmony to not put the ATV into standby. I have my 880 set to not put my cable STB into standby because I experienced problems with doing so. Works great now.

K, I'm clueless here, but handbrake converts mpg2 to mpg4?Handbrake allows h.264 in mp4 containers as well. In fact, Handbrake even has an AppleTV preset. Furthermore, Apple's "add on" to mp4 now allows AC3 and AAC tracks within an mp4 container if that gets you excited.

Yep, in fact that's how I have all my movies set up. They're on a Mac Mini that does nothing but serve up videos now. ;)

Let me make sure you understand my question. Do you rip as MP4 movie file using something like Handbrake or as complete DVDs with the VIDEO_TS folder using something like MacTheRipper?

Dennis

Let me make sure you understand my question. Do you rip as MP4 movie file using something like Handbrake or as complete DVDs with the VIDEO_TS folder using something like MacTheRipper?

Dennis

Handbrake. You didn't mention VIDEO_TS folder playback.

You can always set your Harmony to not put the ATV into standby. I have my 880 set to not put my cable STB into standby because I experienced problems with doing so. Works great now.
I have now confirmed that putting the Apple TV into standby mode while recording a movie does not interfere with the download. Thus, I am perfectly happy to leave my Harmony’s configuration as is. Thanks for your feedback, anyway.

Yep, in fact that's how I have all my movies set up. They're on a Mac Mini that does nothing but serve up videos now. ;)

Yes, but in a user's Movie folder or in iTunes?

I broke down over the weekend and bought an Apple TV.

We have a mixed Mac/PC household, with a 3Mbs DSL connection, and I'm using the wired etehrnet connection on the Apple TV. My initial impressions are:

- Movie rentals are slick. I haven't rented an HD film yet, but the SD looks great and is ready to play after just a few seconds. Its good enough that we're cancelling Netflix after 5+ years. The selection is weak right now, but I'm sure that will improve.

- My experience may have been abnormal, but I had some setup issues. iTunes didn't recognize the Apple TV (appears to be fairly common) and the online help for this problem was out of date.

- I bought the 40GB model with the intention of streaming, and while it works well, the interface is pretty sluggish. I need to play with this more, but I may take it back and get the 160GB model so I can have more room to synch, or look into installing a larger HDD.

- The interface is fantastic. The screen saver and slide show options are beautiful - much better than I had hoped for.

- Good parental controls, which you'll need if you have young kids, since it has the ability to view U Tube videos and podcasts.

- Sound quality is great, and digital photos look much better than on our HD TiVos.

Highly recommended.

Kit
San Diego

Handbrake allows h.264 in mp4 containers as well. In fact, Handbrake even has an AppleTV preset. Furthermore, Apple's "add on" to mp4 now allows AC3 and AAC tracks within an mp4 container if that gets you excited.

Thanks, but I guess I should have been more specific. How can I convert mpgs, wmv, avi's, divx, etc into h.264 formats? I was able to use QT to save out a mp4 movie file for ATV. But what about avi's? HandBrake wouldn't let me open/import avi's.

Download Visualhub. You can convert anything into a format AppleTV will play.

Handbrake. You didn't mention VIDEO_TS folder playback.

Sorry, that's the main interest I have. I can rip a DVD in a lot less than 20 minutes to VIDEO_TS; going to h.264 is much slower obviously. I'm not looking for long term storage, but rather watch and throw away. :-)

Dennis

Guys, I'm looking to get the best quality out of my video that I stream to the Apple TV 2. Currently I have a bunch of TS Files, What are the best settings to use on handbrake in order to get hte best quality possible on the ATV

Guys, I'm looking to get the best quality out of my video that I stream to the Apple TV 2. Currently I have a bunch of TS Files, What are the best settings to use on handbrake in order to get hte best quality possible on the ATV

on the latest version - it's hard to beat the AppleTV presets; Then if you want premium add the 2-pass selection from there.... (although I see minimal improvements with 2-pass; others report a bit more than that)

ken

Thanks,

I want to keep the aspect ration the same...it seems to be stretched on my 50" plasma with the ATV presets.

Any idea what I can do?

Thanks,

I want to keep the aspect ration the same...it seems to be stretched on my 50" plasma with the ATV presets.

Any idea what I can do?

not sure - but perhaps your display is not handling anamorphic properly - you could test this by turning anamorphic off, sticking with fixed ratio...

ken

A couple Apple TV question from a newbie to this forum.

1) I order the 40 gig edition planning on streaming most of my content from my Mac Mini over my wired 100 Mb ethernet connection. I'll be streaming video in the 2500-3500 kbps range. Will I have much of a problem?

2) Is there a way that I can access content on my Mac Mini that is not imported into iTunes? I have a bunch of video files on my machine that I have self-organized and would prefer to access them directly from the machine rather than import them into iTunes.

1) No

2) No

A couple Apple TV question from a newbie to this forum.

1) I order the 40 gig edition planning on streaming most of my content from my Mac Mini over my wired 100 Mb ethernet connection. I'll be streaming video in the 2500-3500 kbps range. Will I have much of a problem?

Streaming works surprisingly well over even 802.11g. Ethernet should be flawless.

2) Is there a way that I can access content on my Mac Mini that is not imported into iTunes? I have a bunch of video files on my machine that I have self-organized and would prefer to access them directly from the machine rather than import them into iTunes.

ATVFiles (http://forum.awkwardtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1175) allows you to browse files shared over a network, but I'd give it a few revisions before trying to install it. They just got it working with Take 2.

I've been enjoying the Apple TV for a few weeks now. It looks great hooked up to my Sharp 32" LCD via HDMI. I've rented a few HD films so far. The Transformers looked really good on the LCD TV. Today I hooked it up to my Sony Ruby front projector and podcasts and photos look good. I need to spend a few days watching it on the Sony. I'm watching "The Heartbreak Kid" on it right now. This movie does not look as good as I had hoped. Very flat looking no depth.

When Take 2 was first released, my playlist filled with internet radio stations could be selected and played from AppleTV. But in the past week, I can no longer do this. Is this because of iTunes 7.6.1 update or some other corruption? Has anyone else had this problem? I can still use AirTunes to play the internet radio stations in the same playlist from my iTunes running Mac. I have tried to both sync and stream this playlist to my AppleTV and neither method showed me the internet radio stations on Apple TV UI.

When Take 2 was first released, my playlist filled with internet radio stations could be selected and played from AppleTV. But in the past week, I can no longer do this. Is this because of iTunes 7.6.1 update or some other corruption? Has anyone else had this problem? I can still use AirTunes to play the internet radio stations in the same playlist from my iTunes running Mac. I have tried to both sync and stream this playlist to my AppleTV and neither method showed me the internet radio stations on Apple TV UI.

From what I understand, this feature was removed in 7.6.1.

When Take 2 was first released, my playlist filled with internet radio stations could be selected and played from AppleTV. But in the past week, I can no longer do this. Is this because of iTunes 7.6.1 update or some other corruption? Has anyone else had this problem? I can still use AirTunes to play the internet radio stations in the same playlist from my iTunes running Mac. I have tried to both sync and stream this playlist to my AppleTV and neither method showed me the internet radio stations on Apple TV UI.

I also miss this function now i have to stream from macbook pro with
i-tunes open not to happy about that.

Can the AppleTV be powered down while not in use? Before getting the aTV, I'm thinking about getting an HDMI switcher that cannot have more than one "always on" HDMI source, which would be my cable DVR.
-Eric

Can the AppleTV be powered down while not in use? Before getting the aTV, I'm thinking about getting an HDMI switcher that cannot have more than one "always on" HDMI source, which would be my cable DVR.
-Eric

Mine goes into a "sleep mode" when I switch activities on my Harmony remote. It deactivates the HDMI output until it is turned back on.

thejokell,
Thanks, for the response. I'm using a Harmony, as well, and I'm just rying to avoid running a second HDMI cable behind the wall and up to the TV. The "3X1 HDMI Intelligent Switch" supposedly chooses the latest coming in signal source for the output, and doesn't require a remote.

Can the ATV use the 5GHz band for 802.11N?

Looked in my manuel and on site could not find any info other than 802.11n draft.
also a,b,g and n besides wired ethernet 10/100.

Can the ATV use the 5GHz band for 802.11N?

yes - no problem... I used this until recently moving to a wired connection. Don't see any difference - just finally got around to wiring over in anticipation of the Capsules coming. 5GHz 802.11n works very well...

ken

Can the ATV use the 5GHz band for 802.11N?

Yes, Apple TV makes use of both 2.4 and 5 GHz bands.

Great, thanks.

I have both Apple TV and a DirecTV HD PVR with On Demand. They are both basically the same product. Apple has a much better movie selection process, but the movie downloaded is pretty much the same -- much better than a live DirecTV broadcast -- no macro blocking, etc. The movie selection varies however. I watched 3:10 to Yuma last night with On Demand HD, and last time I checked Apple only had it in SD.

I watched 3:10 to Yuma last night with On Demand HD

Was it panned-and-scanned to fit a 16:9 screen? (The movie should be been 2.35:1, and had black bars on the top and bottom on an HDTV.) Last time I tried cable HD, in addition to the softness in the image from the low bit rate, my biggest complaint was that they were chopping off the sides of widescreen movies that didn't fit the 16:9 screen. Near as I can tell, this might be another instance where Apple "does it right" and leaves the OAR alone.

I... Apple said to get a component -> DVI adapter. Go figure. It would be the same for a Cinema Display. You'd think that Apple would eventually want to support the appleTV with their own displays--one way or the other.

Kevin: This is your thread. Why don't you give us the straight scoop on hdcp and drm for the Apple TV? :D
Or the scoop on when the Apple Cinema Displays are finally going to be updated. ;) You'd think that Apple would decide to stop leaving money on the table at some point and 1) refresh their current line up & 2) offer displays compatible tithe aTV or other HDCP/HDMI devices.

The only explanation I see is that they are waiting for DisplayPort capable chip sets. I hope that is the case, not that the ACDs are going the way of the LaserWriters...

Was it panned-and-scanned to fit a 16:9 screen? (The movie should be been 2.35:1, and had black bars on the top and bottom on an HDTV.) Last time I tried cable HD, in addition to the softness in the image from the low bit rate, my biggest complaint was that they were chopping off the sides of widescreen movies that didn't fit the 16:9 screen. Near as I can tell, this might be another instance where Apple "does it right" and leaves the OAR alone.

Just to be clear, I saw 3:10 to Yuma on DirecTV On Demand. The movie was downloaded over the internet to my PVR (similar to downloading to Apple TV). The movie was OAR at 2.35:1 with black bars on the top and bottom. It was not pan and scan 16:9. It looked very good. The file downloaded was clearly processed over time to get the most out of the allocated bit rate. There were no noticeable compression artifacts that you would expect with a bit starved live HD broadcast from one of DirecTV's movie channels -- even one of their PPV channels.

The reason why I posted this info in this thread was that it was the same product you get from Apple TV, at the same price, and the picture quality is the same. This service must be considered a direct competitor of AppleTV and DirecTV is situated such that it could definitely dent enthusiasm for AppleTV's movie downloads.

So, anyone with Apple TV and DirecTV has loads of options if they want to see a movie: 1) download from Apple; 2) download from DirecTV; 3) PPV from DirecTV; 3) rent or buy the DVD (or Blue Ray) or 4) wait for it to hit the movie channels.

Has anyone figured out how to create a VIDEO playlist to play back on the Apple TV?

I'd love to have a (podcast) HD trailer loop softcopy that's easy to update/configure without having to use iMovie/burn to SD DVD hardcopy.

When I try to play one in music - it says no songs, which is inconsistent with streaming to other Macs, where one can play video in a (music) playlist.

Sitting there, clicking and scrolling trailers one by one is a snore.

Has anyone figured out how to create a VIDEO playlist to play back on the Apple TV?

I'd love to have a (podcast) HD trailer loop softcopy that's easy to update/configure without having to use iMovie/burn to SD DVD hardcopy.

When I try to play one in music - it says no songs, which is inconsistent with streaming to other Macs, where one can play video in a (music) playlist.

Sitting there, clicking and scrolling trailers one by one is a snore.

I'm not sure if I totally understand what you're trying to do... but two thoughts.

One is to classify something as a TV show, which automatically organizes things into playlists of sorts. I have home video of my son that I wanted to be organized all together, so I just classified them as a TV show with the same name.

The other is that you can view video podcasts directly off of the Apple TV without having to subscribe to them.

Do either of these suggestions help or am I not understanding you correctly?

I download 720p trailers.

I'd like to be able to run them all at once without having to select and play, JUST LIKE 10 songs in a playlist, even randomly.

It works within iTunes - why not Apple TV?

Ideas?

I download 720p trailers.

I'd like to be able to run them all at once without having to select and play, JUST LIKE 10 songs in a playlist, even randomly.

It works within iTunes - why not Apple TV?

Ideas?

Hmm... good question, sorry, I've got nothing.

From what I understand, this feature was removed in 7.6.1.

No, streaming Internet radio wasn't removed from 7.6.1, at least not from the 7.6.1 running on my ATV. After a reboot of the ATV, it won't recognize streaming radio from old playlists for some reason, but if you remove those lists and rebuild them again (and don't play the stations in iTunes first), then the new list will work. Of course, iTunes has to be running at the time you play the radio station on your ATV.

I have to say that I deliberated long and hard on what to get for my HD content. I was an HD DVD person and was very disappointed with the outcome. I decided to get Apple TV instead of Blu Ray. I just watched "No Country for Old Men" and was blown away. Nothing is perfect, but in my experience with HD DVD's, some look better than others. The sound was amazing and the picture quality had plenty of detail to keep this "geek" satisfied!

many have been pleasantly surprised by the ATV-iTunes HD quality. You're experience adds to that. Most have placed it's quality on par with Broadcast, better than cable/satellite and just barely under Disk quality.

I agree with your assessment (I also have BD, HD-DVD sources) ; In many cases the HD quality difference is negligible. There are a few very well encoded disks that exceed it; but just not enough to warrant a Disk library IMO; Personally I will keep my BD player for a few all-time favs, but use ATV rental for my HD fix...

glad you found a good choice hfisher999...!

ken

Yeah, I have been impressed with the quality of both the video and audio on the HD downloads. I have been doing something else lately, though, which has exponentially increased the utility of my Apple TV.

I have been using Handbrake, which is freeware, to rip my DVD files and convert them to .mv4 for iTunes and my Apple TV. All I can say is, “Wow!” The conversion process results in no discernable loss in the quality of either video or audio and requires no user action beyond having Handbrake find the DVD to be ripped, starting the process, and waiting not quite 2 hours for it to finish.

As My Apple TV is the 160 gig model, I will be able to download more than 50 DVD movies before having to even start worrying about running out of room. It’s really neat.

I have been using Handbrake,

Where you able to get 5.1 audio from handbrake?

Where you able to get 5.1 audio from handbrake?

I get it and it works great!

Where you able to get 5.1 audio from handbrake?

like the jokell - answer is definite yes; HB now has the iTunes / ATV DD5.1 in full working order; it required Apple to extend support, which they did; and HB followed up with support shortly after. Works great - full digital DD5.1 pass through from the rips...

ken

To get 5.1 sound for Apple TV with Handbrake set the “Codecs:” setting on the first page of the Handbrake app to “AVC/H.264 Video / ACC + AC3 Audio.” Then, in the “Audio & Subtitles” section, make sure that “Track 1:” is set for 5.1, although I believe this is the default for disks that contain a 5.1 audio track. Anyway, this has never missed for me. Good luck!

Awesome thanks everyone.

Getting my 160g ATV next week. Had a question.

My wife and I keep our own separate iTunes music, but she has ALL of our photos in iPhoto. Can I dump some of the photos from her iPhoto library to the HDD of the ATV for me to view while logged in as me or will I have to log in as her to see them? I'm assuming it has a default log in setting that can be switched to other users in the house.

Thanks!

Getting my 160g ATV next week. Had a question.

My wife and I keep our own separate iTunes music, but she has ALL of our photos in iPhoto. Can I dump some of the photos from her iPhoto library to the HDD of the ATV for me to view while logged in as me or will I have to log in as her to see them? I'm assuming it has a default log in setting that can be switched to other users in the house.

Thanks!

One host can 'sync' content, up to 5 other hosts can stream content.

ATV streams photos now (as well as syncs);
also, No need for user login' on ATV - you'll just 'connect' (up to 5) multiple iTunes libraries (in your case one from wife and one from your computer);

ken

ATV streams photos now (as well as syncs);
also, No need for user login' on ATV - you'll just 'connect' (up to 5) multiple iTunes libraries (in your case one from wife and one from your computer);

ken

Yes, but depending on your home network, it may be nicer to have synced photos.

I have 5 kids, which play net games all the time, which is not conducive for streaming photos, or for that matter HD streaming. :(

So for us, syncing content is preferred...

Yes, but depending on your home network, it may be nicer to have synced photos.

I have 5 kids, which play net games all the time, which is not conducive for streaming photos, or for that matter HD streaming. :(

So for us, syncing content is preferred...

sounds good - syncing has the advantage of working regardless of the network connection state and the pictures take up very little space in the big picture;

enjoy..!!

ken

there is some great info in tis thread! So I wanted t ask about storage. I'm vry disappointed in the 160gb limit, so are any of you expanding on the limits?

My mac is a Mac Book Pro, so I don't have the hd space on it to have all my movies ripped (I have a huge dvd collection, especially after my daughter was born) so I'd like to keep them on the hd of the atv. I am sure that I can fill that thing easily, so what is one to do? I don't have a big budget so price is a cocern.

there is some great info in tis thread! So I wanted t ask about storage. I'm vry disappointed in the 160gb limit, so are any of you expanding on the limits?

My mac is a Mac Book Pro, so I don't have the hd space on it to have all my movies ripped (I have a huge dvd collection, especially after my daughter was born) so I'd like to keep them on the hd of the atv. I am sure that I can fill that thing easily, so what is one to do? I don't have a big budget so price is a cocern.
I’ve been having the same problem because my MacBook Pro also has a 160 gig hard drive. Before I even realized what had happened, I nearly filled it up with files I had ripped from my movie DVDs, converted to MP4 format, loaded into iTunes, and synced to my 160 gig Apple TV.

As a stopgap, I have been using a 250 gig FireWire drive attached to my MacBook Pro to store my MP4 files. Apparently I can create aliases of those files in iTunes. If it works, that will solve my storage problem for the time being but I haven’t tried it yet.

Ultimately, I want to buy a 1 Tb Time Capsule but I’m putting that off because a lot of people have had a lot of trouble with it so far.

Ultimately, I want to buy a 1 Tb Time Capsule but I’m putting that off because a lot of people have had a lot of trouble with it so far.

I'm using 2 of them - no problems for me so far... I really like the way it automatically attaches and mounts; Operates much like an always on NAS - no sharing, password, sleep issues etc. I have all my iTunes media stored on them, as well as my master iPhoto library...

I have my Mac-Pro iTunes and my Mac-Air iTunes both pointed to that Time-Capsule master iTunes media; Makes it nice when purchasing from iether place - the files load to the same Master location; I wish iTunes would automatically coordinate though - not a big deal, but you do have to do an 'add-to' from time to time ; I'd like to see Apple's next product really address family shared Media in the next product release...

ken

I'm using 2 of them - no problems for me so far... I really like the way it automatically attaches and mounts; Operates much like an always on NAS - no sharing, password, sleep issues etc. I have all my iTunes media stored on them, as well as my master iPhoto library...

I have my Mac-Pro iTunes and my Mac-Air iTunes both pointed to that Time-Capsule master iTunes media; Makes it nice when purchasing from iether place - the files load to the same Master location; I wish iTunes would automatically coordinate though - not a big deal, but you do have to do an 'add-to' from time to time ; I'd like to see Apple's next product really address family shared Media in the next product release...
Ken – Yours was not the first rave I had read about using Time Capsule with iTunes and Apple TV. What scares me, though, is the distressing problems a lot of new Time Capsule owners have reported in their reviews to Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B0012JJOQO******cm_cr_dp_all_summary?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Admittedly, Many users liked it and some of the complaints weren’t credible but many among the dissatisfied were. I am not going to buy a Time Capsule right away but I certainly may change my mind in the future.

Is there any way to have a 'blank' or black screen while the music is playing without just turning the TV off? Most of the time I am playing music I don't want my album art or photos flying around the tv screen. It's been a while since I checked the screensaver settings, but is there a way to do this?

Is there any way to have a 'blank' or black screen while the music is playing without just turning the TV off?

yes - in the Screen Saver settings, there's an ON/OFF setting for 'Use for Music'


ken

yes - in the Screen Saver settings, there's an ON/OFF setting for 'Use for Music'


ken

Thanks. I'll try that when I get home.

If I run iTunes on a Windows box, can the ATV stream content from there, assuming they're on the same wireless network?

Kelly

If I run iTunes on a Windows box, can the ATV stream content from there, assuming they're on the same wireless network?

Kelly

Absolutely.

Nevermind - i found an excuse to buy a Mini. :)

Kelly

I'm having problems syncing photos from a Windows XP folder on the Apple TV. I'm using custom sync but the same problem occurs with auto sync. The first time, I tell Apple TV where to find my pictures on my computer and then start the sync. Everything works fine the first time. In subsequent syncs to the atv (for example purchasing a new song in Itunes), the sync process deletes and then starts recopying all my pictures (all 2000 of them). If I try to turn off sync for photos, I get a message that all my pictures will be deleted from the atv. Basically, it appears that because the photos are outside of iTunes and not in the library, the sync doesn't know how to deal with it and just deletes and starts a re-copy.

Has anyone found a work-around or is this a bug or feature :-( ...

OK, I've read through this thread, and I THINK I have a pretty good handle on how ATV works and that it'll do what I want it to do. So I'll outline my process, see if there are holes in my process / misunderstandings.

1. I have an old Athlon 3000+ with Windows XP in my office downstairs. It's wired into a Linksys 802.11g router. I will use that computer to rip my purchased SD DVDs - DVDFab Decrypter first, then Handbrake to convert the image into AppleTV files with 5.1 surround, then move said files into Itunes.
2. The ATV (40GB) will be upstairs hooked into my Samsung 720p DLP using HDMI. I turn that on, and it will stream the files from my Athlon comp's Itunes. No synching, just streaming the files. I'll get my 5.1 (I use the TV's optical out into my old RCA receiver) and a picture quality reasonably close to original DVD quality.

It feels too damn simple. I feel like I'm missing something. I keep reading in the HTPC forums about all the tweaks necessary to get HTPC's optimized, so this feels too . . . easy.

Seriously, am I missing something?

My one concern - I see the max resolution of non-Itunes store media is 720x432. Will I get faux-letterboxing, or will the ATV scale the picture properly to fill the screen?

P.S. won't be using any HD rental capacity, as my 256K would never allow it - this would be purely for playing SD DVD rips as outlined above

OK, I've read through this thread, and I THINK I have a pretty good handle on how ATV works and that it'll do what I want it to do. So I'll outline my process, see if there are holes in my process / misunderstandings.

1. I have an old Athlon 3000+ with Windows XP in my office downstairs. It's wired into a Linksys 802.11g router. I will use that computer to rip my purchased SD DVDs - DVDFab Decrypter first, then Handbrake to convert the image into AppleTV files with 5.1 surround, then move said files into Itunes.
2. The ATV (40GB) will be upstairs hooked into my Samsung 720p DLP using HDMI. I turn that on, and it will stream the files from my Athlon comp's Itunes. No synching, just streaming the files. I'll get my 5.1 (I use the TV's optical out into my old RCA receiver) and a picture quality reasonably close to original DVD quality.

It feels too damn simple. I feel like I'm missing something. I keep reading in the HTPC forums about all the tweaks necessary to get HTPC's optimized, so this feels too . . . easy.

Seriously, am I missing something?

My one concern - I see the max resolution of non-Itunes store media is 720x432. Will I get faux-letterboxing, or will the ATV scale the picture properly to fill the screen?

P.S. won't be using any HD rental capacity, as my 256K would never allow it - this would be purely for playing SD DVD rips as outlined above

You've pretty much got it. I have heard some complaints about streaming over wireless (it's never as reliable as streaming over wired)

The way HandBrake encodes I've never had any problems with aspect ratios.

You've pretty much got it. I have heard some complaints about streaming over wireless (it's never as reliable as streaming over wired)

The way HandBrake encodes I've never had any problems with aspect ratios.

Never had a single issue streaming with my Airport Extreme N. It's never skipped a single frame, even with other network usage.