OK, just ordered a MFW-15 and starting to re-think whether or not I should have ordered a second given the economics.

But, I don't want to overreach my sub requirements if its unnecessary. If I have a room that is about 12.5x14.5x10 (approximately 1800+ cf), would two of these bad boys be excessive?

FYI, not at all concerned about future-proofing, as I WILL NOT be moving for quite awhile (just bought my house).

Thanks

OK, just ordered a MFW-15 and starting to re-think whether or not I should have ordered a second given the economics.

But, I don't want to overreach my sub requirements if its unnecessary. If I have a room that is about 12.5x14.5x10 (approximately 1800+ cf), would two of these bad boys be excessive?

FYI, not at all concerned about future-proofing, as I WILL NOT be moving for quite awhile (just bought my house).

Thanks

I think you're asking the wrong group of people if you want practical advice as to whether dual MFW-15's would be excessive ;)

On a (slightly) more serious note, dual MFW-15 should have enough output to just about knock your room down :D. I think getting two might be good in that unless you're insane like most of us AVS members, upgradeitis shouldn't be a factor. You can also use two MFW-15's to help even out your FR in your room. If space and money aren't really an issue, go for the duals, but again, remember the very "unique" group of people from whom you're seeking this advice :D

Wow, my room is similar in size to yours, and my SVS PB12-NSD is more than enough. Running 2 subs like that....a nuclear war could be going on and you wouldn't have a clue:D

Wow, my room is similar in size to yours, and my SVS PB12-NSD is more than enough. Running 2 subs like that....a nuclear war could be going on and you wouldn't have a clue:D

How long have you had your PB12-NSD? What do you think of it?

One MFW should be plenty and should meet your needs. Two, however, would be incredible because it would give you huge headroom. More headroom = clean, strong bass.

How long have you had your PB12-NSD? What do you think of it?

I've had it a little over a month now. I think it's outstanding. Strong, powerful bass, and it doesn't overpower. I calibrated it to 75db, and then bumped it up 3db. Originally, I was running it too hot, and was advised to level it along with the rest of the speakers, and then gave it a bit of extra kick:)

It certainly is a far cry from the 10" mission sub I replaced. That particular unit had been broken for a long time, and was just using my main speakers for the LFE. I know you have 2 PB10's, do you have them stacked? If I ever felt the need to "upgrade" in the future, I wonder how stacking 2 of the PB 12's would work out? It would probably shake the heck out of my small room. It is hard to imagine better subs. Would two of the PB12's be as capable or better than the top of the line offerings from SVS, HSU, etc.?

One MFW should be plenty and should meet your needs. Two, however, would be incredible because it would give you huge headroom. More headroom = clean, strong bass.

Decisions, decisions. Hey, what's another $500 anyway? But, haven't factored in other costs, I guess.

Additional Sub: $500
New Sheetrock: $1,200
New Door: $600
New Windows: $800
Buying Off Cops/Neighbors: $1,000
Buying Off Wife: $12,000 (payable in stones)

Total Cost for Additional Sub: $16,100

Total Benefit of Second MFW-15: Priceless

Looks like I am going to have to order a second one...

Decisions, decisions. Hey, what's another $500 anyway? But, haven't factored in other costs, I guess.

Additional Sub: $500
New Sheetrock: $1,200
New Door: $600
New Windows: $800
Buying Off Cops/Neighbors: $1,000
Buying Off Wife: $12,000 (payable in stones)

Total Cost for Additional Sub: $16,100

Total Benefit of Second MFW-15: Priceless

Looks like I am going to have to order a second one...

Now THAT'S more like it :D...
I wonder if Mr. Seaton would consider selling you subwoofer insurance so that didn't all have to come out of pocket. Say $19.99 a month covers all subwoofer-induced issues ;)

I use four 15" Adire Tumults in a 1875 cu. ft. room with about 6000watts of power. Never reaching for the remote to lower the volume during thunderous scenes is priceless.

Never underestimate the amount of headroom you will need.

KG

I use four 15" Adire Tumults in a 1875 cu. ft. room with about 6000watts of power. Never reaching for the remote to lower the volume during thunderous scenes is priceless.

Never underestimate the amount of headroom you will need.

KG

I think need might be exaggerating a bit considering you're using four 15's with 6000 watts of power in a small room. Still, I do agree. The difference I noticed when I moved from one to two PB10's in my 900 cubic foot room was substantial. To the OP: If you can afford two MFW-15's, you won't regret the second one. But for most people, even one would be overkill. Of course, since you're here on AVS, we already know you aren't "most people" ;)

Agreed, with most of the posters.

While anyone would consider a pair of MFW-15s in a room that size as "a lot," if you can fit them, the second will probably be very welcome. Smaller rooms like this often have acoustic problems from any one location, and can often give more even response with 2 subwoofers. I currently have 2 of my SubMersives in a room similar in gross size to your room. That's comparable to 4 MFW-15s. That is a LOT of capability and headroom, but certainly useable if you don't have to worry about annoying others in the house or knocking things off shelves around the house. :o

Ever subwoofer has limits. It's really just a matter of how long it takes you to explore those limits. Many will never push their system that hard, and will be hugely impressed with a single MFW-15. Others will want 4 and will still tickle the output limits. :rolleyes:

OK, just ordered a MFW-15 and starting to re-think whether or not I should have ordered a second given the economics.

But, I don't want to overreach my sub requirements if its unnecessary. If I have a room that is about 12.5x14.5x10 (approximately 1800+ cf), would two of these bad boys be excessive?



That is definitely a dangerous question to ask around here, as I think even if your title had been "Quad MFW-15's for my room or is one enough?", you would have had people saying "Go for it, you can never have too much headroom!"

I am in the exact same position as you with identical room dimensions. The only difference is, I think my ceiling is only 9' instead of 10.' I had been going back and forth for months about which sub to order between the MFW-15 and the Epik Caliber or Castle and finally decided on the MFW. If my room was bigger I probably would have gone with the Castle, but I felt that it would be overkill and a single MFW-15 would be perfect.

So I ordered a single MFW-15 on Monday and it has been bugging me ever since that I did not order a second one given the discount. I really do not think I "need" it or would ever really take advantage of having two, but it is hard to pass up a bargain. :) If there was not a discount for ordering a second one, I don't even think I would be considering it. I have been trying to justify ordering a second one in that I could always use it in another room or sell it to a friend if it was excessive, but deep down I know I would just keep both in the theater and feel that it would be underutilized.

So for the moment I am not upping my order to two. If they were shipping soon I am pretty sure I would be able to abstain until mine was shipped, however, with the significant back-order and the fact that I have a month or so to change my mind, I do not like my chances. :)

2 Ultra/2's in an 18 x 18 room. That's 4 12" woofers and 2000 watts of power.
Enough is never enough!!

Ok, seriously, I didn't buy the second sub for the volume, I bought it because my room has issues. 2 subs, placed 1/3 down each of my side walls made my response almost perfect. Before I had huge nuls and humps.

2 MFW's will give you all the power you ever need with a smooth response for the best overall SOUND.

That is definitely a dangerous question to ask around here, as I think even if your title had been "Quad MFW-15's for my room or is one enough?", you would have had people saying "Go for it, you can never have too much headroom!"

I am in the exact same position as you with identical room dimensions. The only difference is, I think my ceiling is only 9' instead of 10.' I had been going back and forth for months about which sub to order between the MFW-15 and the Epik Caliber or Castle and finally decided on the MFW. If my room was bigger I probably would have gone with the Castle, but I felt that it would be overkill and a single MFW-15 would be perfect.

So I ordered a single MFW-15 on Monday and it has been bugging me ever since that I did not order a second one given the discount. I really do not think I "need" it or would ever really take advantage of having two, but it is hard to pass up a bargain. :) If there was not a discount for ordering a second one, I don't even think I would be considering it. I have been trying to justify ordering a second one in that I could always use it in another room or sell it to a friend if it was excessive, but deep down I know I would just keep both in the theater and feel that it would be underutilized.

So for the moment I am not upping my order to two. If they were shipping soon I am pretty sure I would be able to abstain until mine was shipped, however, with the significant back-order and the fact that I have a month or so to change my mind, I do not like my chances. :)

Evaluate your listening habits. If you don't listen anywhere near reference levels, and don't think that will change, one MFW-15 will be plenty for you. That said, if you do like to listen at high volumes, you'd be surprised at the difference a second sub makes. A second sub will enhance dynamics and greatly reduce compression. Also, by running two subs instead of one, at any given level the two subs should likely better behaved with lower distortion, because the two individual subs will be each not be working as hard as one sub to produce the same SPL. Additionally, as previously stated, dual subs can smooth frequency response. I'm not trying to influence you one way or the other, but just encouraging you to ask yourself what would best suit you. Only you know your listening habits, so you're the best person to evaluate your needs. Good luck :)

Are you located near PA? I'm looking for an MFW ... :D

Nick

That is definitely a dangerous question to ask around here, as I think even if your title had been "Quad MFW-15's for my room or is one enough?", you would have had people saying "Go for it, you can never have too much headroom!"

I am in the exact same position as you with identical room dimensions. The only difference is, I think my ceiling is only 9' instead of 10.' I had been going back and forth for months about which sub to order between the MFW-15 and the Epik Caliber or Castle and finally decided on the MFW. If my room was bigger I probably would have gone with the Castle, but I felt that it would be overkill and a single MFW-15 would be perfect.

So I ordered a single MFW-15 on Monday and it has been bugging me ever since that I did not order a second one given the discount. I really do not think I "need" it or would ever really take advantage of having two, but it is hard to pass up a bargain. :) If there was not a discount for ordering a second one, I don't even think I would be considering it. I have been trying to justify ordering a second one in that I could always use it in another room or sell it to a friend if it was excessive, but deep down I know I would just keep both in the theater and feel that it would be underutilized.

So for the moment I am not upping my order to two. If they were shipping soon I am pretty sure I would be able to abstain until mine was shipped, however, with the significant back-order and the fact that I have a month or so to change my mind, I do not like my chances. :)

I thought maybe I typed this in a dream. We must be twins separated:cool: at birth!

I thought maybe I typed this in a dream. We must be twins separated at birth!

Glad to hear I am not the only one that spends too much time and thought on this stuff. I vow that once the sub gets here and I post a review, I am off this forum for a while. :)

So I take it you ordered a MFW-15? I am still pretty confident in my decision, I am just hoping it does not give up to much on the low end as compared to the Epiks.

i was in the same boat. i had the money for 2 mfw-15s. but figured i try on for the price its worth it. got it superbowl weekend and love it. im glaqd i only got one i think my house would crumble with 2. my windows are ready to shatter as is. i have no buyers remorse on this beast. it sounds great w/ music and ht. youll love it i promise

Hey Hellaraw,

How big is your room? I had decided to go with a dual. Seems I have become a bass freak so this will be my 4th time upgrading hopefully this will be it :p. I am coming from a SVS 2039+ and use my subs just for movies. The thought of the whole room rumbling makes the movie experience so much better hehe

My question is similar but I am looking to see if I can get away with just 1. My main listening / viewing room is the living room in a vacation style house with ceiling that rises from 8' up to 16' cathedral style. That lasts for about 10' then it comes straight back down to 8' ceilings and meets the dining room, kitchen & hallway. All the rooms in the house both upstairs and down kind of enter into this living room. So it's something like 22' by 30' all together, mostly 8' but one section rises to 16' ceilings. Can I get by with just one MFW-15? I do like to listen at reference levels, both theater and music. But I have a wife who hates this stuff, both the looks and the costs. So that's a huge factor to consider for me. So the real question is can I get by or do I need to somehow convince her this is necessary? :) If I need 2, is it best to stack them? Or seperate them?

My question is similar but I am looking to see if I can get away with just 1. My main listening / viewing room is the living room in a vacation style house with ceiling that rises from 8' up to 16' cathedral style. That lasts for about 10' then it comes straight back down to 8' ceilings and meets the dining room, kitchen & hallway. All the rooms in the house both upstairs and down kind of enter into this living room. So it's something like 22' by 30' all together, mostly 8' but one section rises to 16' ceilings. Can I get by with just one MFW-15? I do like to listen at reference levels, both theater and music. But I have a wife who hates this stuff, both the looks and the costs. So that's a huge factor to consider for me. So the real question is can I get by or do I need to somehow convince her this is necessary? :) If I need 2, is it best to stack them? Or seperate them?

That's a big room. For people who listen at modest SPL's I think a single MFW-15 might be ok, but since you like to listen at reference levels, I think you'll need two MFW-15's for sure. Stacking will give you higher SPL's, so if it's raw output you want, stacking is your best bet. However, you may find that separating them allows you to get a more even FR in your room. I'd make sure to wait and see what other people say, but it sounds to me like you're going to want to have two MFW-15's.

Epik Castle does not seem to be an inferior choice for facesnorth, either.

The four 15's are sealed. Because I use a variable LT that extends the frequency response down into the mid single digits, it eats up alot of power, even at low levels.

WTS, It's still a cry for help:D


KG

That's a big room. For people who listen at modest SPL's I think a single MFW-15 might be ok, but since you like to listen at reference levels, I think you'll need two MFW-15's for sure. Stacking will give you higher SPL's, so if it's raw output you want, stacking is your best bet. However, you may find that separating them allows you to get a more even FR in your room. I'd make sure to wait and see what other people say, but it sounds to me like you're going to want to have two MFW-15's.

I was worried about that. :) Oh well, I just can't imagine aesthetically my wife ever accepting 2 huge stacked subs in my living room. I can't even envision where to put them. But the discount is appealing...

I was worried about that. :) Oh well, I just can't imagine aesthetically my wife ever accepting 2 huge stacked subs in my living room. I can't even envision where to put them. But the discount is appealing...

Another suggestion is to try near field placement of the MFW-15. I tried it in my setup and didn't personally like it that much because I'm extremely sensitive and could localize the source of the bass, which I found annoying. However, near field placement works very well for a whole lot of people, and that would help you get the visceral "punch" in such a large room. If you're going to go with one MFW-15, I'd definitely try a near field placement. My recommendation would still be two though.

You can never have enough subs. I'd get four!

Another suggestion is to try near field placement of the MFW-15. I tried it in my setup and didn't personally like it that much because I'm extremely sensitive and could localize the source of the bass, which I found annoying. However, near field placement works very well for a whole lot of people, and that would help you get the visceral "punch" in such a large room. If you're going to go with one MFW-15, I'd definitely try a near field placement. My recommendation would still be two though.

For closer locations and those to the immediate side or rear, adjustment of the distance control and/or reducing any peaks due to room acoustics above 80-100Hz become more critical. While the best acoustic match will typically come from a longer entered distance than the measured distance to the subwoofer, both decreasing the subwoofer distance a foot or 3 and switching to the L+R inputs and cascading the internal crossover (set in the 80-180Hz range), can help reduce any localization. There are many factors contributing to this, but the above adjustments can be quite effective at manipulating the subjective result.

For closer locations and those to the immediate side or rear, adjustment of the distance control and/or reducing any peaks due to room acoustics above 80-100Hz become more critical. While the best acoustic match will typically come from a longer entered distance than the measured distance to the subwoofer, both decreasing the subwoofer distance a foot or 3 and switching to the L+R inputs and cascading the internal crossover (set in the 80-180Hz range), can help reduce any localization. There are many factors contributing to this, but the above adjustments can be quite effective at manipulating the subjective result.

Mark,

I didn't understand your explanation on distance setting. What distance should we enter in the receiver distance settings. I think it is from listening
position right. Thanks for any info.

Correct pdadi,

This is the standard setup in most receivers where they ask you to enter the measured distance from the listening position to each speaker. I've posted about it many times, and really need to start assembling such info on AV123's and my own forum/site.

Long story short, similar to the case with optics where you can have a real and imaginary focus or focal point, a subwoofer's effective acoustic distance is typically greater than the measured or real distance from the listening position. This is due to the low pass filters and the characteristics of the subwoofer itself.

To get a better melding of the main speakers and subwoofer, you can start with the measured distance and then increase the distance entered in the setup menu to the point where you get the best sound and integration. Frankly this will be hard for most to discern by ear, but it is possible to get a better result than you would using the measured distance, even just by ear. There are methods to more directly come to a better value, but that requires the ability to measure frequency response.

For closer locations and those to the immediate side or rear, adjustment of the distance control and/or reducing any peaks due to room acoustics above 80-100Hz become more critical. While the best acoustic match will typically come from a longer entered distance than the measured distance to the subwoofer, both decreasing the subwoofer distance a foot or 3 and switching to the L+R inputs and cascading the internal crossover (set in the 80-180Hz range), can help reduce any localization. There are many factors contributing to this, but the above adjustments can be quite effective at manipulating the subjective result.

I agree. After experimenting with near field positioning, I ended up placing my subs behind my TV instead, where they blend much more seamlessly with my front speakers. Near field can work, but if things aren't dialed in just right, the disjointed interaction between the subs and the front sound stage is a huge distraction to me. However, if facesnorth really wants to stick with only one MFW-15 in a room that big, I think near field placement is his best chance at still having a very visceral experience near reference levels.

Correct pdadi,

This is the standard setup in most receivers where they ask you to enter the measured distance from the listening position to each speaker. I've posted about it many times, and really need to start assembling such info on AV123's and my own forum/site.

Long story short, similar to the case with optics where you can have a real and imaginary focus or focal point, a subwoofer's effective acoustic distance is typically greater than the measured or real distance from the listening position. This is due to the low pass filters and the characteristics of the subwoofer itself.

To get a better melding of the main speakers and subwoofer, you can start with the measured distance and then increase the distance entered in the setup menu to the point where you get the best sound and integration. Frankly this will be hard for most to discern by ear, but it is possible to get a better result than you would using the measured distance, even just by ear. There are methods to more directly come to a better value, but that requires the ability to measure frequency response.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. I never knew about this before.

I have my sub placed nearfield next to my couch 3 ft from LP. I will experiment by increasing the distance a little bit. If I can't find much diff then
I will revert it back to measured distance.

I was worried about that. :) Oh well, I just can't imagine aesthetically my wife ever accepting 2 huge stacked subs in my living room. I can't even envision where to put them. But the discount is appealing...

1 castle will be smaller and provide roughly the perfomance of stacked mwf-15s for the same price

Correct pdadi,

This is the standard setup in most receivers where they ask you to enter the measured distance from the listening position to each speaker. I've posted about it many times, and really need to start assembling such info on AV123's and my own forum/site.

Long story short, similar to the case with optics where you can have a real and imaginary focus or focal point, a subwoofer's effective acoustic distance is typically greater than the measured or real distance from the listening position. This is due to the low pass filters and the characteristics of the subwoofer itself.

To get a better melding of the main speakers and subwoofer, you can start with the measured distance and then increase the distance entered in the setup menu to the point where you get the best sound and integration. Frankly this will be hard for most to discern by ear, but it is possible to get a better result than you would using the measured distance, even just by ear. There are methods to more directly come to a better value, but that requires the ability to measure frequency response.

Could you explain a little bit more on using frequency measurements. I thought it was a time based response we needed.

If we took a frequency sweep of the mains+subwoofer, could we then remeasure after altering the distance to see if they meld better ? I would think a gated sweep would be needed so it wasn't too open in time, I think.....

So for the moment I am not upping my order to two. If they were shipping soon I am pretty sure I would be able to abstain until mine was shipped, however, with the significant back-order and the fact that I have a month or so to change my mind, I do not like my chances.

So it is 3 whole days later and AVS comes up with another promotion to make it basically impossible for me to resist ordering a second sub. I would end up getting the second one delivered for only $400 more than my current price for one. I would be crazy not to order the second one right? Or am I crazy to put two of these in a 12' x 14' room? Somebody please talk me out of this. :)

1 castle will be smaller and provide roughly the perfomance of stacked mwf-15s for the same price

But it's hard to beat the nice wood appearance of the MFW-15. I googled the castle and didn't like it as much aesthetically. At least I have some time to decide... (mid-late summer before I'll be able to afford subs).

Ha, by that time epik might start doing wood veneers. I know both epik and ED will, sooner or later. Of course it's doubtful they will match av123, the veneer champion. A Castle with smooth paint looks pretty cool anyway:
http://www.whitecapwindsurfing.com/images/forSale/epikA.jpg

That looks very strong.

that's a massive port. warning for people with little dogs or cats!

It's hard work choosing a sub..... you're not making it easy.