I just got a Vizio 42" LCD at Costco. It seems nice with HD stuff but LD looks like crap. I can hardly watch a VCR. Is this the case with other HDTVs?

I'm using a Samsung box with Time Warner, and non-HD programming varies from ok to terrible.

I've looked around a bit and will pick up the Digital Video Essentials DVD later today (unless someone has a better idea?) and will try to calibrate.

Any suggestions/comments most welcome.

uhh, yeah. buying an lcd to watch a vcr is not ideal. it was meant for HD content, so thats whats going to make it look good. SD looks good on some HDTVs, not so good on others. it all depends on the quality. You got a vizio from costco so your not going to get quality on everything unfortunately.

One of the reasons I bought it at Costco is because their return policy is so good. If I don't like it, I bring it back within 90 days. Plus they extend the warranty to 2 years.

But I just read the thread on Vizio in the LCD forum and it's all over the place. There are even claims that it does better with SD than other brands. All I can say is that if Vizio SD quality is as bad as what I'm seeing, then they wouldn't sell any TVs at all. That clearly isn't the case so something else is going on. I'm thinking that perhaps the cable quality has degraded over time and I should get someone in to check it. I see a visit from Time Warner in my future. Of course, that wouldn't explain the VCR issue.

I just got a Vizio 42" LCD at Costco. It seems nice with HD stuff but LD looks like crap. I can hardly watch a VCR. Is this the case with other HDTVs?

I'm using a Samsung box with Time Warner, and non-HD programming varies from ok to terrible.

I've looked around a bit and will pick up the Digital Video Essentials DVD later today (unless someone has a better idea?) and will try to calibrate.

Any suggestions/comments most welcome.
What the heck is a VCR?
Stick with a CRT if you are going to only watch VCR material and SD because you will not reap the benefits of HDTV.

There are still some things that I have on VCR that I MIGHT want to watch sometime in the future. Like my two tape set of Colonel Bleep! OMG! I just looked it up and it is available on DVD! I'll order it immediately. One less reason to keep the VCR.

However, much happiness over the last 24 hours. I tweaked a bunch of settings and the picture, on both HD and SD, varies from OK to stunning. I tried a different VCR and some commercial tapes and it is very watchable.

Yesterday I called Vizio to ask about the SD stuff and was talking to an English speaking person within 45 seconds. He was helpful and said that if I couldn't get it working as I wanted, they would send someone over under warranty. That's pretty good.

I found a thread on my Visio, I hadn't realized that this was the newest model (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=986672

Now I find that since I bought it at Costco with their AMEX card, I have a 3 year warranty. Very good.

I'll try the suggested calibration settings tonight.

I also tried the OTA setup. I have a rooftop antenna that I've only used for FM. Because I put it up for one station, it is even on a rotor. I hadn't used the rotor in a few years but it works fine. I got something like 70 stations, the majority are digital. There are some stations that I don't even get on cable.

I've set it up so the main display is still the cable but PIP is OTA. It works really well.

So far I'm very pleased with this HDTV. Of course, since I only have the one, it's tough to compare. I did pass through Circuit City last night (looking for the Digital Video Essentials DVD) but that apparently is only available on line. I suspect that they'd rather you hire them to adjust the TV. Still, I took a more educated look at all the TVs and my Vizio seems to be as good as all of the lower priced ones. In fact, only the one that was showing a BluRay disk really blew it away.

My recommendation would be to take it back to Costco and swap it for a Panasonic plasma. For overall image quality, LCD is inferior to plasma and the Visio brand is equivalent in quality to their price category (low).

Is this like the helmet wars in the bicycle newsgroups? I generally do wear a helmet.

Do the folks in the LCD group know that Plasma is better? Like everyone else looking to buy an HDTV, the first thought is about that (the second is 1080p). From what I could see and read, LCD/Plasma didn't seem to make much difference. But by body count in the forums right now, 406 are in LCD and 237 in Plasma. Does that mean that more LCDs are sold or that more folks have issues? Business Week says LCD is taking over: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/tech_stats/TVdisplay050930.htm

Of course, betamax lost so numbers can mean nothing where quality is concerned.

A local chain is selling the Panasonic 42" Plasma (TH42PX75U - not 1080p) for $900. That is $50 less than I paid for the Vizio which is normally $1100. Costco has the TH42PC77U for $1200. Not 1080p either.

I really don't know what is better. I can't put them side to side in my home, but at Costco (bright halogen lights?) I just didn't see much to recommend one over the other.

I got the coupon for the $150 (beginning Feb 11) off the Vizio around two months ago, and did some quick research and found out that, not only was the L42 rated well, it uses much less power, particularly in standby, than most other brands, which counts over time:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6475_7-6400401-3.html?tag=nav

Panasonic, on the other hand, was either average or poor.

Well, it's Costco, so the return policy really can't be beat. That's one reason I bought it there. Another reason is because I really like Costco. It isn't like BJ's or lots of other big box stores. They treat their employees well, in fact, it's annoying that they close at 6pm on Saturday but that's so the employees can spend time with their families.

Their buyers are also top notch. They get good stuff for reasonable prices, and their house brand (Kirkland) is almost always very good. I figure Vizio is their house brand for HDTV so I thought that it might be a good deal. I'll keep looking around though. I have 90 days for an unquestioned return. No "restocking fee".

In the professional motion imaging program production, engineering and broadcast worlds, picture quality and image fidelity have very clearly specified, standardized, established, measureable definitions. On the consumer side, picture quality and image fidelity are subjectively judged by each viewer, manufacturer, marketing department, technology news reporter, forum poster, retail salesperson, etc., with little to no understanding of the standardized nature of video. In other words, they make stuff up as they go along. The Imaging Science Foundation and a few others have labored extensively to educate the consumer side of the industry on these issues.

My point is, there are reliable sources for analysis of image quality and display performance (the minority), then there are marketing-driven commentators who are uneducated or compromised, that you can listen to (the majority). Worse yet, there are well-meaning but uninformed consumers on forums always eager to voice their observations and opinions about technical issues. There are some consumers who have devoted years to studying imaging science principles and display industry standards, who have a pretty good grasp of what constitutes genuine picture quality and image fidelity, but they are very few and far between.

Experienced display calibrators, a handfull of exceptional equipment reviewers, and students of imaging science, are the best sources for advice on what display will deliver the best performance for your circumstances. A favorite quote of mine from H. L. Mencken sums up the mass consumer video market,"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."

dgk -- Vizio is not a house brand. They are located in Southern California, formerly called V, Inc. Here is their "About Us" page: http://www.vizio.com/about_us/. Unfortunately, store showrooms are the worst places to judge the display's capability. All of the ones in my local Costco looked crappy to me (but that could be due to their source and how they are connected to it).

The other members have ventured a lot of opinions. My opinion is that all flat panel displays have pluses and minuses. I prefer LCD's in the smaller sizes for price reasons. Basically, you choose the best looking display for the price you are willing to pay. You really should only judge the display's performance using digital programs (SD or HD).

Many cable companies send you SD channels as analog signals, which may not look good on your Vizio. If it shows a good picture from DVD sources and digital (OTA or cable), then I would think it's a keeper. If these look good, then I wouldn't worry about its not providing a good picture from analog sources (VCR and some SD cable or OTA TV - garbage in, garbage out).

Calibration will always help (DVE is not easy to use - IMHO), but it will not "fix" poor source material. I prefer to use the GetGray Caldisc (www.calibrate.tv), after having bought both DVD and AVIA calibration DVDs. Some very experienced members have also reported that the Monster/ISF Calibration Wizard DVD (Amazon.com and other sources) does a good job for people not familiar with doing display calibration.

Thanks, I did know that it wasn't their house brand, at least not the way Insignia is for Best Buy, though they do seem to have some arrangement. Unfortunately, the only way to get side by side comparisions seems to be in poor places. J&R's viewing room is a dark dungeon. Circuit City is ok, but most of the displays look crappy because they feed one signal which seems to be degraded, and it isn't from Cable anyway. Costco is too bright.

I have sort of a compromise. I spoke to Time Warner yesterday and they'll be sending an HDTV tech out on Saturday to check the cable strength. I'm happy with the picture from DVD (not HD); in fact some of them are pretty stunning. Mostly the TV is ok too, but I think it should be better. The problem doesn't seem to be the TV. I have a 26" Toshiba HD CRT in the computer room and I took a closer look at that, and the same sort of imperfections that show up on the Vizio also show up on the Toshiba, but it's much smaller so not as noticeable.

Hmm, the Monster Calibration Wizard isn't exactly beloved by the reviewers either. Do any of these do more than my eyes do? Maybe I should just order the Discwasher one for $8 and ask how to use it here. Or, I'll wait until Saturday and see what the TW guy says.

Tonight I think I'll hook up the computer. It has a DVI output, and I have a DVI to HDMI cable, so I'll hook that up to the free HDMI port on the Onkyo. Let's see how it works as a gaming monitor. Not that I have much time to game, unfortunately. The Vizio has a VGA input, so I could check out how that looks as well.

Cable company feeds vary all over the place. Some are Ok and some are terrible, especially if they are analog feeds (the cheapest cable price). The Time Warner tech will not calibrate your set for you - he (usually) doesn't know how. But he should be able to see if you have a good signal. Many cable boxes are defective too (they recycle them from user to user until they get too many complaints). Be sure to show him the worst channels.

The Monster/ISF DVD is looked down on for 2 reasons. First because it is marketed by Monster. However, they did not make the DVD, it was put together by the ISF organization (they license professional calibrators). Monster was the only company that agreed to market it (and it's not overpriced like their other products). The second reason is that it doesn't use the "accepted" test patterns. Therefore, it can't be used with measurement equipment. However, it does use clips from videos and movies which demonstrate the various aspects needed to get a good picture, and walks you through the adjustment process. Consequently, it can result in setting your display to look very good using only your eyeballs. This was carefully explained to me by a professional calibrator (an AVS member) and I am repeating it for your edification.

Personally, I've used regular calibration patterns for so long that I tend to only stick with the traditional test patterns. I use my eyeballs as the measurement instrument. My preference is for the GetGray Caldisc (www.calibrate.tv), with the THX Optimizer "glasses" (click on the "THX Online Store" link on this page: http://www.thx.com/home/dvd/blueGlasses.html). Yes, doing a calibration will get you a much better looking display (but it won't improve the quality of the signal, if it's crappy to begin with - not sharp, poor color, etc.).

Do not get the Discwasher DVD. That one is a total ripoff. you've spent good money on your display. It does not make sense to save $8 to $25 on a DVD that will not do the job for which you are getting it. Get one of the standard ones. If you are uncomfortable with the Monster/ISF one, then get the AVIA "Guide to Home Theater" - it guides you step by step through the calibration process (hand-holding). The DVE disc is less money, but is much harder to use, and some DVD players won't let you get to all the test patterns (I have one of those). All 3 of those calibration DVDs can be purchased from www.amazon.com.

You can go to www.calibrate.tv and download the ReadMe file (near the bottom of the web page). Read it and if you understand how it should work, then you could get the GetGray Caldisc (you have to have a DVD burner on your PC - the free IMGburn software can be used to make a DVD for use - use a DVD-R disc). Since I wrote these "instructions", I could help you with problems that you might run into (via PMs). It is the most accurate calibration disc out there, and is quick to use. It has all of the necessary patterns and none of the frills (which sometimes can be fun to see).

Default settings for almost 100% of the displays are not correct. These sets can definitely produce an improved picture with straight forward visual calibration and the use of a good calibration DVD. Using fancy equipment only gets you the last 5% to 10% towards perfect (for a lot more money).

Thanks, I got a THX movie and did an ok job calibrating using that, but without the glasses. I've now ordered the glasses and I'll see how that goes. I'm happier with the picture now but the cable still seems to be fairly crappy. The DVD picture is fine. Some channels are fine also, NGC-HD is always excellent. I'll look into the Monster disk, plus GetGray. Just out of curiosity, why -R ? Mostly I've been using + for normal DVD burning.

TWCable does not seem to have many HD channels. I'm going to look at other options.