I already have monster white run flat speaker wire ( :p dont flame wanted to getting speakers running asap rat shack across street only 100ft spools they had:p) but anyway i feel like it my speakers sound a little hollow flat if you will i have a onk605 H/K speakers on pan30 bluray through hdmi through bitstream

Ive heard great things about both places speaker wire looking for a good 12-14awg

Sound quality will prob be about the same i know unless any body's tested both and actually heard a difference ? what about build quality between both places in there speaker wire?! because monos are a tad bit cheaper doesn't necessarily equate to worse but hey gotta ask

I own some BJC cables, the 12ga belden ones and they are great. Do you know what gauge your existing wire is? I think you stand much more to gain by thinking about the system as a whole including your room. I would try some free-of-charge fixes first before spending money -- perhaps you will find that the sound characteristic you hear can be resolved just by moving somethings around a few inches here and there.

Are your speakers too close to the walls around them? (spacing speakers away from boundaries helps to even out their response)

Have you played with toe-in angle of your speakers? (this can focus the sound towards your listening position and lessen the effects of first reflection off of side wall)

Is your listening position close to 1/4 way or 1/2 way in your room down the length dimension? (this is perhaps the most important, you want to try to keep your listening position roughly between 33%-40% down the length of your room from either front wall or rear wall)

You are blaming the wrong thing...your problem will not be solved by changing the speaker wire.

You are blaming the wrong thing...your problem will not be solved by changing the speaker wire.+1

not blaming the speaker i know its a real shot in the dark that it would be but im moving the system to another room anyway so either way im going to need more speaker wire anyway im wallmounting them and dont feel like spending alot more on monsters again going to change the array of speakers n callibrating the fronts a lil more thats were i think the biggest dip is i auto calibrated it with the audessy system n mic from the onk it just never did it right it never recongized the sub i even cranked the sub all the way up and even then it was no more than 14 away maybe the acoustics of the room ?

but anyway so would the bluejeans beldins be the way to go !?

I would go with BJ because their cables are great and they will cut it to custom lengths.

they will cut it to custom lengths.:rolleyes: So will Home Depot and the results will be exactly the same for a fraction of the cost!

do they have it on they site? so theoretically will all speaker wire of the same awg and good build qaulity pretty much sound exactly the same ?

has anybody tried the dayton 12awg speaker wire i see it all over amazon parts exp etc.......

do they have it on they site?:confused: Go to homedepot.com and search for "speaker wire" and you will get these results (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Navigation?Ntt=speaker%2Bwire&Ntk=AllProps&Ntx=mode%2bmatchallpartial&N=10000003%2B90401&Nty=1&recordCompareList=&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&style=A&rpp=48).

Or walk into one of their stores and tell them you want xx-feet of yy-gauge speaker wire and they will cut it off the big roll for you.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImage/3837ccec-2a19-439d-9ea5-4a60c3172ab4_100.jpg

yea i was more along the lines of instore because im prob going to get a custom length


thanks guys for all the input

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/i30krab/diane-lane-picture-6.jpg:rolleyes: So will Home Depot and the results will be exactly the same for a fraction of the cost!

Calm down and enjoy this, you'll feel better and realize you are absolutely wrong!

so wait i am still planning on getting some speaker wire today so dont get regular speaker wire from the home depot all speaker sire will not preform the same guage n length!?

so wait i am still planning on getting some speaker wire today so don't get regular speaker wire from the home depot all speaker sire will not preform the same guage n length!?

Do yourself a favor and call Kurt at Bluejeans cable and discuss it with him because that's his business and he'll treat you right.

This forum has many very knowledgeable members and many very less knowledgeable members and sometimes this makes it very confusing when someone asks a question.

as a caveat this message is not inferring anyone in particular either way.

Do yourself a favor and call Kurt at Bluejeans cable and discuss it with him because that's his business and he'll treat you right.Yeah ... that's it! And he''ll be really objective too. :rolleyes:

Go to Home Depot and buy some 12ga or 14ga wire and hookup your speakers. Enjoy them. Period.

If anyone can provide verifiable, repeatable, scientific data that some other "speaker wire" will outperform your Home Depot wire, I will pay for your Home Depot wire. You have nothing to lose.

PS. I will put my credentials up again our dentist friend any day of the week.

Yeah ... that's it! And he''ll be really objective too. :rolleyes:

Go to Home Depot and buy some 12ga or 14ga wire and hookup your speakers. Enjoy them. Period.

If anyone can provide verifiable, repeatable, scientific data that some other "speaker wire" will outperform your Home Depot wire, I will pay for your Home Depot wire. You have nothing to lose.

PS. I will put my credentials up again our dentist friend any day of the week.

Remember Mr. Credentials, there are 2 types of intelligence, Didactic book learning and street smarts. I know I have both but I'm not too sure about your street smarts when you make such rediculous sweeping statements that are contrary to many, many people in the A/V industry. I truly feel you are doing a disservice to many members who are asking reasonable questions about speaker wire.

you make such rediculous sweeping statements that are contrary to many, many people in the A/V industry.I laid down a challenge. Put your money where your big mouth is. :eek:

Newbies might be interested in an infomercial called "Cable Facts and Fables (http://www.electronichouse.com/article/cable_facts_and_fables/C29/)" written by Steven Hill of "Straight Wire".

The thing of interest is that this "article" was originally posted on the AVS main page one week ago but when David Bott of AVS reviewed the article's absolutely ridiculous claims, he pulled it!

It is even more important to note the 30 comments (http://www.electronichouse.com/article/comments/cable_facts_and_fables) made by predominantly AVS members ("people in the A/V industry") posted below the article.

PS. Learn to spell. "rediculous" :confused:

theoretically will all speaker wire of the same awg and good build qaulity pretty much sound exactly the same

Yes.

If you have a "hollow sound" in your speakers, then the first thing you should do is to get bass traps for your room. If that doesn't help enough, then you may need a better enclosure for your speakers -- probably a stiffer enclosure with better controlled resonance.

The reason there are people in the A/V industry claiming that speaker cable matters is that they either:
1) make money from selling the stuff or
2) have previously paid money for the stuff, and thus enjoy the placebo effect

This has been scientifically studied and shown to be true over a period of 30 years. If you believe that science works, then that's what you should believe about cable.

Note that you can use case 2) in your own favor, if you're looking for a placebo effect.

Do yourself a favor and call Kurt at Bluejeans cable and discuss it with him because that's his business and he'll treat you right.

Yeah ... that's it! And he''ll be really objective too. :rolleyes:

Hey, cavu: you know what we tell people? We tell them that barring some sort of really strange design (e.g., braided CAT5 with massive capacitance), speaker cable all sounds the same if it's of equal gage. We even tell them that after they've told us that they can find it cheaper somewhere else. The worst thing we've ever said about cheap speaker cable--and we say this not because it sells wire but because it's TRUE--is that it's not uncommon for the cheaply-made stuff to have a somewhat reactive dielectric which leads to the cable suffering heavy oxidation after it's been in use for a few years.

Having been the victim of a lot of hard-sell nonsense, I can understand when people are cynical about these things. But to imply, as I think you are doing, that we would mislead people to sell a few bucks worth of speaker wire is not really fair to us. I would rather close the business than have to lie to people to sell products.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/index.htm)

But to imply, as I think you are doing, that we would mislead people to sell a few bucks worth of speaker wire is not really fair to us. I would rather close the business than have to lie to people to sell products.Well, if that is the case, my hat is off to you ... you apparently are a breath of fresh air in a business dense with a smog of deception and I would apologize for any characterization you may have inferred from my post.

barring some sort of really strange design (e.g., braided CAT5 with massive capacitance), speaker cable all sounds the same if it's of equal gageNow ... please explain that again to i30krab :p

Now ... please explain that again to i30krab :p

Well, not to particularly target anyone; I'm not sure what his views are on speaker wire, and since he recommends us, my suspicion is that his views are probably roughly in line with mine... but perhaps a longer explanation is in order in any event, in case anyone is interested.

In theory, there are a few attributes of speaker cable that can affect sound; these are resistance, capacitance, and inductance. Because it's a low-impedance circuit, capacitance has to be really large to be a meaningful factor; because the inductance of ordinary wire that isn't wound in a coil around a form just isn't very high, similarly, inductance is rarely a factor. Resistance can be a very meaningful factor because speaker impedance, though we generally refer to it by a "nominal" value of 4 or 8 ohms, actually varies with frequency. Accordingly, if the resistance of the speaker wire is significant in comparison to the speaker impedance, the speaker wire winds up burning up as heat more of the high than the low frequencies, resulting in high-frequency rolloff in the sound. Keeping resistance low enough is therefore a good thing.

Resistance is basically a function of two things: conductor size and conductor composition. Bigger conductor, lower resistance; more conductive metal, lower resistance. Silver is the most conductive metal but makes a lousy choice because it's (1) bloody expensive, and (2) rather brittle when drawn as wire. Copper, the second most conductive metal, is much cheaper and can be annealed so that it will not be brittle like silver, and so copper winds up being the nearly-universal choice for speaker wire. So the size of the wire, rather than any other attribute, winds up being the determining factor in speaker cable performance. For most applications, 16 AWG is probably plenty, but most of us like to run something bigger just to be extra-safe.

We see a lot of really expensive speaker wire being sold, and it just blows my mind what people will pay....

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/index.htm)

the size of the wire, rather than any other attribute, winds up being the determining factor in speaker cable performance. For most applications, 16 AWG is probably plenty, but most of us like to run something bigger just to be extra-safe.Thank you! :D

umm, am I mistaken or Diane Lane? And if so, so what?

that is really one hot picture.

I am just wondering for those don't believe in cable make difference...have you actually try expensive cable vs home depot one? I really don't know, but people suggest they hear difference between the two. So what's going on? Care to explain?

I am just wondering for those don't believe in cable make difference...have you actually try expensive cable vs home depot one? I really don't know, but people suggest they hear difference between the two. So what's going on? Care to explain?

It's not a belief, it's fact. And yes, I have compared expensive cables to cheap cables.

Don't you find it odd that in the long history of audio, no one has been able to demonstrate hearing a difference in a controlled blind listening test? If the differences were even a fraction of what "believers" claim, it would be very easy to do.

It's not a belief, it's fact. And yes, I have compared expensive cables to cheap cables.

Don't you find it odd that in the long history of audio, no one has been able to demonstrate hearing a difference in a controlled blind listening test? If the differences were even a fraction of what "believers" claim, it would be very easy to do.

You can't really say it's a fact because those companies sell 10,000 dollars speaker wire probably could come up with some study that would prove you wrong. But I would love to believe in your theory to save money on wire. Anyway if someone would just answer the question about how does one hear difference when they switch cable? Especially when the sales demonstrate it in store it actually works.

This forum seem to like to answer question with indirect answer....weird.

Looking for some answer like...better CD player just have higher voltage. So volume would play slightly louder than the other.
Maybe that's true maybe not....but that's seems like a plausible explanation.

Don't you find it odd that in the long history of audio, no one has been able to demonstrate hearing a difference in a controlled blind listening test?
I find it odd that you would say this, because it is demonstrably not true (http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_data.htm).

I am just wondering for those don't believe in cable make difference...have you actually try expensive cable vs home depot one? I really don't know, but people suggest they hear difference between the two. So what's going on? Care to explain?
Expectation bias.

I find it odd that you would say this, because it is demonstrably not true (http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_data.htm).

The comment was about wire, not amps, see the original thread topic.

From your own link:

http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htm

ha...what kinda test is this? 1 listener.....
Even if they do 10 trials, they still couldn't use fundamental theorem of calculus to normalize it. Besides who are the listeners.

You can't really say it's a fact because those companies sell 10,000 dollars speaker wire probably could come up with some study that would prove you wrong.


Don't you think if they could do that, they would? It would be a great marketing tool.

It's placebo effect, plain and simple. When you find a dealer that does these cable swaps blind, and it still works, let me know.

ha...what kinda test is this? 1 listener.....
Even if they do 10 trials, they still couldn't use fundamental theorem of calculus to normalize it. Besides who are the listeners.

Well we can only go by the evidence provided. Why don't you give us a link that shows different results?

I was told by a trusted audio expert that it does make a difference.. but more so with RCA type cable... is this at least true?

Tributary cable... or something like that is what he was selling.

And I was told to make sure the the speaker wire for each speaker with the same length... is this true also?

Well we can only go by the evidence provided. Why don't you give us a link that shows different results?

huh? I couldn't just point out there's something wrong with the study shown in this foum? wtf?
I may not know audio theory...but at least I know some stats...

Don't you think if they could do that, they would? It would be a great marketing tool.

It's placebo effect, plain and simple. When you find a dealer that does these cable swaps blind, and it still works, let me know.

Are you saying there isn't anything that says their 10,000 wire is better than cheaper one on their website?

I don't really know cuz I don't check.....But that's just weak marketing. They should at least make up something like Monster Cable did.

huh? I couldn't point out there's something wrong with the study? wtf?

Sure you can. But I'm not sure I see the flaw. If even one listener can hear a difference in cable, that would prove it is possible, even if others cannot hear the difference.

Are you saying there isn't anything that says their 10,000 wire is better than cheaper one on their website?

I don't really know cuz I don't check.....But that's just weak marketing. They should at least make up something like Monster Cable did.

Of course they claim there is a difference on the various manufacturers websites, that's called marketing, and they do make things up.

What I said was that there is no evidence to back it up.

Sure you can. But I'm not sure I see the flaw. If even one listener can hear a difference in cable, that would prove it is possible, even if others cannot hear the difference.

But then it's not a fact....because that's not a valid data.

Of course they claim there is a difference on the various manufacturers websites, that's called marketing, and they do make things up.

What I said was that there is no evidence to back it up.

Now we are back to my original question...Why do people hear difference.
we get 1 answer - expectation bias.

Not sure if everyone is willing to spend money on "expectation bias".
I am more satisfied with the bs high price cd player answer. I guess there's no real answer for this quesiton....Just need to listen if you ever get the chance.

The comment was about wire, not amps, see the original thread topic.
Well, "the whole history of audio" includes a lot more than just wire. And why should a test that can produce positive results with amps not produce positive results with wires, assuming positive results are possible?

But anyway, back in 1983 Stereo Review ran six DBTs of wires; five had statistically significant results. Now, they were using some pretty extreme wires, and had intentionally chosen test conditions that would highlight differences. But that's just the point: When the differences are great enough, you get positive results. When they're not, you don't. And for almost all wires on the market today, they aren't.

Basically wire's effect is pretty minimal....good to know.

Now we are back to my original question...Why do people hear difference??The same reason my RED car goes faster.

If you don't believe the 'rabble' at least take Kurt (owner of Blue Jeans Cable) at his word (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13122286#post13122286). I have a new-found respect for that guy!

I was told by a trusted audio expert that it does make a difference.. but more so with RCA type cable... is this at least true?
Probably even less true than for speaker wire. What makes this guy "trusted"?

Tributary cable... or something like that is what he was selling.
Oh, he was selling something? That is not a trusted expert. That is a salesman. I strongly suggest you pay heed to the difference.

And I was told to make sure the the speaker wire for each speaker with the same length... is this true also?
Also wrong. Electrical signals move through wire at a substantial fraction of the speed of light. A few extra feet on one side has no audible effect at all.

But then it's not a fact....because that's not a valid data.

If just one person can prove that he is able to hear the difference in wires, in a double blind comparison, 10 times out of 10 (or whatever number) times, how would that not be valid data?

If just one person can prove that he is able to hear the difference in wires, in a double blind comparison, 10 times out of 10 (or whatever number) times, how would that not be valid data?It would be valid but it would be far more likely that he was psychic than the chance that there was any real difference ! :p

Basically wire's effect is pretty minimal....good to know.
Minimal, and also known. A handful of measurements can tell you exactly what effect a given wire will have on a signal passing between two given components. There really isn't a lot of mystery about why most cables sound the same.

Well, "the whole history of audio" includes a lot more than just wire.


Well since the topic was wire, and I quoted his question about wire, I guess I figured that most would be able to figure out that I was talking about wire. I guess I was wrong.

And why should a test that can produce positive results with amps not produce positive results with wires, assuming positive results are possible?


Never said it couldn't, just that it hasn't been done.

But anyway, back in 1983 Stereo Review ran six DBTs of wires; five had statistically significant results. Now, they were using some pretty extreme wires, and had intentionally chosen test conditions that would highlight differences. But that's just the point: When the differences are great enough, you get positive results. When they're not, you don't. And for almost all wires on the market today, they aren't.

I remember that. They were comparing 30ft runs of 24ga to 16ga and Monster cable.

From the article:

"...So what do our fifty hours of testing, scoring and listening to speaker cables amount to? Only that 16-gauge lamp cord and Monster cable are indistinguishable from each other with music and seem to be superior to the 24 gauge wire commonly sold or given away as 'speaker cable.' Remember, however, that it was a measurable characteristic--higher resistance per foot--that made 24 gauge sound different from the other cables. If the cable runs were only 6 instead of 30 feet, the overall cable resistances would have been lower and our tests would probably have found no audible differences between the three cables. This project was unable to validate the sonic benefits claimed for exotic speaker cables over common 16-gauge zip cord. We can only conclude, therefore, that there is little advantage besides pride of ownership in using these thick, expensive wires"

no this guy is an expert.... he has some very nice B&O speakers and has original tape music recordings on real to real.... and he has been on many Speaker Listening Teams. People pay him for his ears.

I did mean less for Speaker Wire. Where as RCA cable makes a huge difference. But if you have the ear for it... then I would think speaker wire would make a difference. I wish I could contact this audio salesman... he was the best in New England for the audio knowledge. He used to really push the Nakamichi Cassete decks way back when. back when ADS where some of the best speakers.

Probably even less true than for speaker wire. What makes this guy "trusted"?


Oh, he was selling something? That is not a trusted expert. That is a salesman. I strongly suggest you pay heed to the difference.


Also wrong. Electrical signals move through wire at a substantial fraction of the speed of light. A few extra feet on one side has no audible effect at all.

If just one person can prove that he is able to hear the difference in wires, in a double blind comparison, 10 times out of 10 (or whatever number) times, how would that not be valid data?

Not a large enough sample size....it would just be an outlier case that needs to be considered.

So you believe in study about twin's psychic connection then....There are also some studies done about that.
People believe in science....but not everything is about science.

no this guy is an expertYeah ... an expert salesman.he has some very nice B&O speakers and has original tape music recordings on real to real.... and he has been on many Speaker Listening Teams. People pay him for his ears.OK. Now that I've seen what turns your crank, I'll try something different here ....

I have some vintage professional tape recorders. About 20 of them. I have a few tapes too. Maybe 500. Some are the master studio tapes of records by artists you know and that you could hum along to. I was the recording engineer.

I used to sit on "expert" panels as a member of the Audio Engineering Society (a peer-reviewed professional organization). I was a reference person in the areas of audio transducers, audio signal processing and psycho-acoustics. I used to speak to professional audio and broadcasting organizations around the world.

I have some very nice speakers in my home ... Fostex LS/4 (http://gray.mb.ca/fostex/RWO-FOSTEX%20LABORATORY%20SERIES%20MONITORS.pdf)s. People paid me for those speakers. I designed them. They were used in the very finest recording studios in the world. Still are. They cost about $10K per pair back in the early '80s (a new Camero Z28 was $7200).

Now ...

Q Do you know what wiring I use to connect my speakers??

A 14-2 "Romex" household wiring from Home Depot. Probably exactly the same as the wiring in the walls of your house. Cost $0.50/ft.

http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/235523_front200.jpg

Full disclosure: I have never sold "speaker wire" in my life.

Not a large enough sample size....it would just be an outlier case that needs to be considered.


Depends on what you are trying to prove. If you were trying to prove that most people could hear a difference, you are correct. But if you were trying to determine if anyone can hear a difference, one is all you need.

So you believe in study about twin's psychic connection then....There are also some studies done about that.
People believe in science....but not everything is about science.

No I don't believe in phychic abilities either. I have absolutely no idea what that has to do with wire though.

original tape music recordings on real to real

Yeah baby that's what I like about all this, keeping it real!!

I've gotta break out my old Teac2300 SD reel-to-reel and have some old school fun and not think about cables or speaker wire or arguments..............like back in the old days...before I ever heard the word "audiophile" (and certainly before I ever saw the first copy of Stereophile.)

End of Rant. Back to enjoying the music and having fun!

Depends on what you are trying to prove. If you were trying to prove that most people could hear a difference, you are correct. But if you were trying to determine if anyone can hear a difference, one is all you need.



No I don't believe in phychic abilities either. I have absolutely no idea what that has to do with wire though.

As I said...who are the listeners? Maybe he just didn't find one that could hear the difference...since his sample was so small, that study couldn't conclude that there's no difference between wires...You get it now?

There are some studies that proved some twins do have psychic connection....so does that make it true?

As I said...who are the listeners? Maybe he just didn't find one that could hear the difference...since his sample was so small, that study couldn't conclude that there's no difference between wires...You get it now?


I think you're the one that doesn't get it. I never said a single study could prove there is no difference, no matter how large or small the sample size. How do you prove a negative? On the other hand, a single listener could prove a positive result, that he, or she, can hear a difference. So far no one has.

I think you're the one that doesn't get it. I never said a single study could prove there is no difference, no matter how large or small the sample size. How do you prove a negative? On the other hand, a single listener could prove a positive result, that he, or she, can hear a difference. So far no one has.

Uh...If you have large enough sample size and there's no flaw in the test you could claim that there's no difference under certain condition.

Lot of people hear difference....but some just said it's expectation bias.

Uh...If you have large enough sample size and there's no flaw in the test you could claim that there's no difference under certain condition.
Thought you said you knew statistics. All the null results in the world can't definitively prove there's no difference. (On the other hand, you rack up enough of them and you start to see a pattern!)

Whereas if a single guy got 10 out of 10 correct (and could do it a second time, just to show it wasn't a fluke), that would prove there's an audible difference--though it doesn't mean it's audible for everybody, of course.

Thought you said you knew statistics. All the null results in the world can't definitively prove there's no difference. (On the other hand, you rack up enough of them and you start to see a pattern!)

Whereas if a single guy got 10 out of 10 correct (and could do it a second time, just to show it wasn't a fluke), that would prove there's an audible difference--though it doesn't mean it's audible for everybody, of course.
Yes it would...you could normalize it and claim 99.8% sure there's no difference.
If I remember correctly that's what the p value stand for

that one person would be an outlier for the study.

I was told by a trusted audio expert that it does make a difference.. but more so with RCA type cable... is this at least true?

Tributary cable... or something like that is what he was selling.

And I was told to make sure the the speaker wire for each speaker with the same length... is this true also?

NOT ONE shred of truth in that at all. Trusted? And he is a salesman?

Please if he is so trusted lets have the name.

Every day I read this forum, I am reminded just how right Barnum and Bailey were.

Every day I read this forum, I am reminded just how right Barnum and Bailey were.

why do you read it everyday? :rolleyes:

I am just wondering for those don't believe in cable make difference...have you actually try expensive cable vs home depot one? I really don't know, but people suggest they hear difference between the two. So what's going on? Care to explain?

Yes. I have. Between $30K Transparent Opus MM, a few hundred dollars of snazzy Monster Cable, and for kicks at the end after the blind testing, a regular 16ga extension cord with the ends lopped off and used as speaker wire. There was a long thread in the 20K+ forum about our testing. Bottom line, most of the people who wax on about the impacts of speaker wire are full of BS. Most of them are salespeople who make a huge margin on wire, unfortunately. While our test did not disprove the possibility of audible difference, it was very easy to say with confidence that the difference between a $5 extension cord and $30,000 speaker wire was so small that even if audible to others or in a different test or system was pathetically insignificant in light of the VASTLY more impactful differences in room acoustics, speakers, speaker and listener locations, source, amps, leap year, the moon, etc etc as to be ridiculous. And this was in a purpose built Rives audio 2-channel listening room with some of the best gear on the planet, not some shabby mid-fi system.

Kurt's explanation is spot-on accurate. Buy the gauge of wire you need for the distance you're running, but the CL rating you need if required, and if possible (though hard to know) buy stuff with good insulation, some of the cheap stuff at some hardware stores with the clear insulation the conductor will corrode and turn green over time. Again, even this doesn't really make that big of a difference, but it looks cheesy and it's a peace of mind thing.

I was told by a trusted audio expert that it does make a difference.. but more so with RCA type cable... is this at least true?

Tributary cable... or something like that is what he was selling.

And I was told to make sure the the speaker wire for each speaker with the same length... is this true also?

You should correct your post, the description of said audio "expert" is incorrect. If he tells you to make sure the speaker wire is the same length, he is full of crap, and you should immediately question pretty much everything else that comes out of his mouth. Ridiculous.

no this guy is an expert.... he has some very nice B&O speakers and has original tape music recordings on real to real.... and he has been on many Speaker Listening Teams. People pay him for his ears.

No, he isn't. At least we can say for certain that people don't pay him for his knowledge or brains. He may have pretty ears, but saying that speaker wire needs to be the same length is beyond absurd. Unless the difference is on the scale of hundreds of feet such that the resistance in the wire is an issue, it is not even a concern. Electricity moves at the speed of light. If he doesn't know that the speed of light isn't even CLOSE to the speed of sound, then he's an idiot, and you should question everything else he says.

Speed of light: 299,792,458 m/s
Speed of sound: ~340m/s

Difference in wire length to shift a 20khz tone by one cycle, if my math is right, about 15,000m. So yeah, if you've got one speaker 9miles farther away than the other....

Come on people, use come common sense here.

I have a 25 year old system consisting of a McIntosh Intergrated MA6200Amp and JSL Infinite Slope speakers and a Denon CD player and recorder.
A couple of years ago I thought it was time to spring for new components.
My set didn't have the depth and clarity of some of the newer equipment I auditioned. Instead of the $5,000 I went for back in 1986 I was willing to go for double the amount now.
The audio shop I was working with that could have sold me a bunch of new components and made more money on the sale, instead after hearing about the quality of my old system said it was hard to beat and to try some AudioQuest cables. He started me with cables from my CD player to my amp replacing the standard RadioShack cable I had with a better quality $120 set of 2 ft cables by AudioQuest.There was a distinct improvement in the clarity of the the sound.
Next he loaned me a pair of Midnight AudioQuest cables, about 8 ft long. I was sold and bought a set of both the speaker and CD hook-up cables.
To cut it short the sound improved so dramatically I decided to keep my old system and saved about $10,000 all told from what I was prepared to go for.
The sound is far better than when the set was new, with the bass being so clear with no muddiness at all , and the entire spectrum of sound, including the treble end, with a clear defined sound with great seperation, that the set sounds as good as anything I auditioned without going for the really big bucks.
I have had this discussion with guys that have all kinds of testing equipment and I really think the difference isn't in the numbers they talk about but the clearity and realism of the resulting music that can only be appreciated by the listener.
When I replaced my old monster cable with the AudioQuest Midnight speaker cables the difference was, and is, night & day.
I kept testing back and forth to be sure and the difference was amazing.
No one can ever-ever convince me cables don't make a difference.
I enjoy my system more than ever and my Jazz CD's never sounded so good.

I have a 25 year old system consisting of a McIntosh Intergrated MA6200Amp and JSL Infinite Slope speakers and a Denon CD player and recorder.
A couple of years ago I thought it was time to spring for new components.
My set didn't have the depth and clarity of some of the newer equipment I auditioned. Instead of the $5,000 I went for back in 1986 I was willing to go for double the amount now.
The audio shop I was working with that could have sold me a bunch of new components and made more money on the sale, instead after hearing about the quality of my old system said it was hard to beat and to try some AudioQuest cables. He started me with cables from my CD player to my amp replacing the standard RadioShack cable I had with a better quality $120 set of 2 ft cables by AudioQuest.There was a distinct improvement in the clarity of the the sound.
Next he loaned me a pair of Midnight AudioQuest cables, about 8 ft long. I was sold and bought a set of both the speaker and CD hook-up cables.
To cut it short the sound improved so dramatically I decided to keep my old system and saved about $10,000 all told from what I was prepared to go for.
The sound is far better than when the set was new, with the bass being so clear with no muddiness at all , and the entire spectrum of sound, including the treble end, with a clear defined sound with great seperation, that the set sounds as good as anything I auditioned without going for the really big bucks.
I have had this discussion with guys that have all kinds of testing equipment and I really think the difference isn't in the numbers they talk about but the clearity and realism of the resulting music that can only be appreciated by the listener.
When I replaced my old monster cable with the AudioQuest Midnight speaker cables the difference was, and is, night & day.
I kept testing back and forth to be sure and the difference was amazing.
No one can ever-ever convince me cables don't make a difference.
I enjoy my system more than ever and my Jazz CD's never sounded so good.

Faith works in mysterious ways.

Faith works in mysterious ways.

The dealer needs to put food on the table you know... :p

There was a distinct improvement in the clarity of the the sound.:rolleyes:

When I replaced my old monster cable with the AudioQuest Midnight speaker cables the difference was, and is, night & day.


A night and day difference? Can you explain why no one has been able to demonstrate these huge differences in any kind of controlled test?

A night and day difference? Can you explain why no one has been able to demonstrate these huge differences in any kind of controlled test?

They didn't have enough faith!

It's a variation of Pascal's wager applied to wire.

I wasn't given any hype by the dealer, just "try them and see what you think" is what he said, so the power of suggestion has nothing to do with. I was completly suprised by the improvement actually. No comments to the contrary will make me disbelieve my ears. It is what it is, and it gave my system a life it never had, with either regular lamp wire or the Monster cables, which were pretty much equal to each other.
Audioquest Midnight (states Audioquest) model cable is made from 14 seperate "Functionally Perfect Copper" conductors. and the cable is almost 1" in diameter. Audioquest states this is what makes the difference, among other details, which are technically beyond me. What ever they did---- IT WORKS.
Netjazz

I wasn't given any hype by the dealer, just "try them and see what you think" is what he said, so the power of suggestion has nothing to do with.

You sure?

Audioquest Midnight (states Audioquest) model cable is made from 14 seperate "Functionally Perfect Copper" conductors. and the cable is almost 1" in diameter. Audioquest states this is what makes the difference, among other details, which are technically beyond me.

Sounds like power of suggestion to me.

I wasn't given any hype by the dealer, just "try them and see what you think" is what he said, so the power of suggestion has nothing to do with.
"Try them and see what you think" is all it takes.

Audioquest Midnight (states Audioquest) model cable is made from 14 seperate "Functionally Perfect Copper" conductors. and the cable is almost 1" in diameter. Audioquest states this is what makes the difference, among other details, which are technically beyond me. What ever they did---- IT WORKS.
Hey, as long as you're happy. But it's still complete snake oil. "Functionally Perfect Copper" indeed!

The entire idea that a pair of 8-ft speaker cables would cost almost TWO GRAND implies a great deal of "suggestion".

The person who spends (wastes) this kind of money on speaker cables is probably the same person who cruises "the mall" in a Hummer. Probably compensating for inadequacies in other departments (if you know what I mean).

Here's a quote from a review of NetJazz's cables in The Stereo Times ... "I’ve had cables in my system that cost thousands of dollars. I truly get a kick out of telling non-audiophiles that a 10ft pair of speaker cables costs about the same as a decent used car. It’s like telling him them you have both male and female sex organs - they step back and look at you in disbelief."

I guess if that's what it takes for them to "get off", and they can afford it, and they do it behind closed doors, who are we to question their private lives?

Cavu or what-ever. Where did you get "TWO GRAND" from. I paid about $600 at the time and they are well worth the money.
I thought the Forum was about ideas and opinions on cables and didn't expect to get a pathetic response like yours. If you don't agree just say so. No need to jump in the gutter and give a response that absolutly makes no sense at all.
GROW UP MAN.

Cavu or what-ever. Where did you get "TWO GRAND" from.
He quotes a statement referring to cables costing "thousands". That's a plural "s", which implies two or more. Now do you understand?

A night and day difference? Can you explain why no one has been able to demonstrate these huge differences in any kind of controlled test?

Maybe because those who did the test don't have enough fund to provide a good environment to show there's actually difference between the wires.

Besides those wire companies who sell expensive wires don't need to prove anything. Because rich people gonna buy them anyway:rolleyes:. It's not like if wire companies fund the experiment and show the actual prove, and then their sales would go up. Normal people don't just drive to Walmart and purchase a 30k/ft wires.... lol

just point out a few things...
Speakers they use are not good enough
The room is not good enough
Listeners are not good enough
etc...etc..

Anyone in the forum actually been to some wire believers' houses and test out their wires and prove them wrong? lol

He quotes a statement referring to cables costing "thousands". That's a plural "s", which implies two or more. Now do you understand?

who cares...personal attack is retarded.

Anyone in the forum actually been to some wire believers' houses and test out their wires and prove them wrong? lol

I have...try reading the power cable test at www.hometheaterhifi.com

personal attack is retarded.If you are referring to my last post, note that I did Not 'attack' anyone!

This is a 'science' forum and I was proffering a possible rationale for people who believe they detect 'improvements' where none has ever been proven to exist.

If it was a religious experience one might discuss the apparent need to believe there is a higher power that provides comfort or a reference point for humanity.

However, where people seem to derive 'pleasure' from expensive items where the only distinguishing feature is the price, one must surmise that there are psychological issues relating to adequacy, self-esteem or dominance. I am certainly not the first or best authority on such complexes! I am sure that Dr. Phil has done programs on these sorts of things.

Again, I did not direct my observations at anyone in particular.

On the other hand, if the shoe fits ...

PS. Excuse typos - my PDA is schitzy.

who cares...personal attack is retarded.

Now that's the pot calling the kettle black!

What amazes me, is NOT the price Monster gets for it's cable. It's the prices that I see on Audiogon for second hand "hi-end" cable. The implication is that the "hi-end" cable that, I'm sure, initially made "the highs higher, the lows lower, and the soundstage sound 'oh so sweet, like a curtain was lifted'" is now being replaced with something "better." I'd almost be willing to concede the point if the expensive cable was the equivalent of the Ferrari in the garage, brought out once a year and fawned over, an heirloom to be handed down from generation to generation. But you draw your own conclusions from the number of people selling their cable and (upgrading?)..............

I was impressed by how fast I got my Blue Jeans cables, and the price was definitely right.

Are Blue Jeans cables made in the U.S? If they are, then that would a plus for them.

Wire, by the way wire doesn't have a characteristic sound. However a few cable manufacturers in the high end industry "voice" cables by changing their electrical properties so that they act as tone controls. Usually they have high inductance and tend to roll off high frequencies. These cables usually have a black box or two connected to the wire and are very expensive - 4 figures per pair. There are so few of them that I doubt any of the readers of this thread will even encounter them let alone buy them. Certainly nobody should buy them. I can't think of a worse place in a system to put a tone control that isn't adjustable or defeatable.

I wouldn't spend a second worrying about cable "sound." Worry instead about room acoustics and speakers.

I have...try reading the power cable test at www.hometheaterhifi.com

So what did the owner said?

btw I totally agree with you guys...monoprice or Bluejeans are the way to go.
Rather spend my money to buy better speakers :)

Now that's the pot calling the kettle black!

lol... personal attack is a guy or a girl?
says the guy that answer the question with absurd answer...:p

If you are referring to my last post, note that I did Not 'attack' anyone!

This is a 'science' forum and I was proffering a possible rationale for people who believe they detect 'improvements' where none has ever been proven to exist.

If it was a religious experience one might discuss the apparent need to believe there is a higher power that provides comfort or a reference point for humanity.

However, where people seem to derive 'pleasure' from expensive items where the only distinguishing feature is the price, one must surmise that there are psychological issues relating to adequacy, self-esteem or dominance. I am certainly not the first or best authority on such complexes! I am sure that Dr. Phil has done programs on these sorts of things.

Again, I did not direct my observations at anyone in particular.

On the other hand, if the shoe fits ...

PS. Excuse typos - my PDA is schitzy.

yah proved by saying some people need expensive cable to "get off" is a really good scientific prove...gj

I don't own any BJC's cable but I like their business model. I like Mono's also. There's other good manufacturers out there as well.

Is ANY cable manufactured in the United States?

Experts? What's the answer to that?

Yo Kyoto - why always so defensive?

defensive of what?

$120 for 2-ft cables could be a good buy, if it were a set of maybe 50 2-ft cables … and if I actually needed that many.

In the end, wire is wire--not that all wire is alike, but all wire acts like wire, with resistance, capacitance, and inductance. Understanding this can help you avoid a walletectomy.

Many of Blue Jeans cables are made in the US. They specifically state on their website when a model is made in China.

Hell, when I bought my first set of Blue Jeans cables years ago, I think they were still making them in their garage...

Many of Blue Jeans cables are made in the US. They specifically state on their website when a model is made in ChinaYou have to be careful here ... I understand that Blue Jeans assembles cables in the US but that does not necessarily mean that the wire itself and/or the connectors are made in the US. I would assume that if Blue Jeans states that a cable is made in China, they are referring to a complete assembly.

I wasn't given any hype by the dealer, just "try them and see what you think" is what he said, so the power of suggestion has nothing to do with. I was completly suprised by the improvement actually. No comments to the contrary will make me disbelieve my ears. It is what it is, and it gave my system a life it never had, with either regular lamp wire or the Monster cables, which were pretty much equal to each other.
Audioquest Midnight (states Audioquest) model cable is made from 14 seperate "Functionally Perfect Copper" conductors. and the cable is almost 1" in diameter. Audioquest states this is what makes the difference, among other details, which are technically beyond me. What ever they did---- IT WORKS.
Netjazz

But this was a sighted test. Not only did you know for a fact that there was a change in wire, you knew for a fact which was which. This makes the test irrelevant and proves nothing. Unless you do a blind test, all you have shown is that you are naturally, like anyone (including myself) very much influenced by the placebo effect, which is very well documented.

You have to be careful here ... I understand that Blue Jeans assembles cables in the US but that does not necessarily mean that the wire itself and/or the connectors are made in the US. I would assume that if Blue Jeans states that a cable is made in China, they are referring to a complete assembly.

They are completely forthright about this. BJC uses Belden and Canare wire, most of which is manufactured here. If you read their website carefully, they give full disclosure on part origins and assembly location.

Many of Blue Jeans cables are made in the US. They specifically state on their website when a model is made in China.

Hell, when I bought my first set of Blue Jeans cables years ago, I think they were still making them in their garage...

My Blue Jeans speaker cables say "made in China" on them. (Not that it matters, as I really couldn't care less.:))

My Blue Jeans speaker cables say "made in China" on them. (Not that it matters, as I really couldn't care less.)
Um...are you sure you bought that from us? We have never bought any speaker cable from China. All we have ever sold is (1) various flavors of Belden, built in Richmond, Indiana or Monticello, Kentucky, and (2) Canare 4S11, made in Japan. We do source our banana and spade connectors from Taiwan, but they don't say "made in China," or "made in Taiwan," anywhere on them.

You have to be careful here ... I understand that Blue Jeans assembles cables in the US but that does not necessarily mean that the wire itself and/or the connectors are made in the US. I would assume that if Blue Jeans states that a cable is made in China, they are referring to a complete assembly.
That's right; let me clarify:

If we say it's "made in China," it's a complete assembly, made entirely in China from start to finish. This is only true of a few types of products: our Series-2 and Tartan HDMI cables, DVI cables, and various adapters, breakouts, and the like.

If we say the cable is made in the US and the assembly is done in China (the only products of which this is true are the Belden-based HDMI cables; the bulk cable is made here, but we ship it to China for termination), then that's what's going on.

If we say the product is made in the US, that means we assemble it here in Seattle; the origin of the parts may vary but is usually fairly easy to discern. For ALL Belden products, the raw cable is US-made. For all Canare cables, the raw cable is either Japanese or Chinese-made. Connectors are more of a mixed bag. Canare plugs used to be all made in Japan, but some of their production has been moved to China. Other connectors we use are mostly either Chinese or Taiwanese.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/index.htm)

Is ANY cable manufactured in the United States?
Experts? What's the answer to that?


Lots of cable is made in the USA. Belden has a few hundred workers at its main Richmond, Indiana plant, and its wire and cable division sells in excess of a billion dollars in product per year. And they're not the only ones. CommScope, Gepco, West Penn Wire (now part of the Belden "family"), and some others are in the mix, too.

Not much US-made cable goes to the consumer market, though, which is why Belden isn't a household name. A lot of it is special-application stuff (SDI cable, RF transmission cable, data cables, industrial control cables, fire alarm cable) that most people just don't have occasion to buy, and a lot of that reaches the market either through industry-specific dealer networks (video cable through broadcast supply and electronic parts dealers, for example) or through building contractors who incorporate it into new construction.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/index.htm)

Maybe PULLIAM has Brue Jeans...one of dem knockoffs that you get in Manhattan's Chinatown :D

Thanks for clarifying Kurt.

Thank you Kurt. That's the answer I really wanted to hear!!

I just read through this entire thread and couldn't find a single response to the original question (which was what I was attempting to ascertain, incidentally).

I've bought from both BJC and Monoprice on numerous occasions, but for basic cable it appears that Monoprice is considerably cheaper, and their banana terminals are a fair amount cheaper too. After dozens of posts I think the consensus is that price and quality of wire isn't THAT important, but I have some Home Depot 12g wire I'm looking to replace that's WAY too green to be functioning in tip-top order (I've had it for 8 years). So I want to switch to a more sightly and low cost alternative.

Incidentally, for those recommending the HD solution, the Monoprice cable is actually cheaper by the foot. I paid $0.35/foot for 12g about 8 years ago (it must be at least that much now), and MP is selling 100' sections of 12g cable (with outer jacket) for $28.35, so $0.29/foot.

So are there any comparison facts floating around out there about construction of cables between Monoprice and BJC?

I have some Home Depot 12g wire I'm looking to replace that's WAY too green to be functioning in tip-top order
It may not look good, but it's probably functioning just fine. (Not that there's anything wrong with wanting something else.)

So are there any comparison facts floating around out there about construction of cables between Monoprice and BJC?
I presume you mean speaker cables. (The answer would be different for different cables, which may be part of the confusion in a 100-post thread.) BJC sells Belden and Canare cables. I'm not sure what "construction" means for wires wrapped in plastic. I bought the gray Belden for aesthetic reasons (my wife's).

But it really doesn't matter. Buy the cheapest. Buy what looks best. Buy American, if you can.

I presume you mean speaker cables. (The answer would be different for different cables, which may be part of the confusion in a 100-post thread.) BJC sells Belden and Canare cables. I'm not sure what "construction" means for wires wrapped in plastic. I bought the gray Belden for aesthetic reasons (my wife's).

But it really doesn't matter. Buy the cheapest. Buy what looks best. Buy American, if you can.

Yes, speaker cables. I suppose I was referring to the construction (materials) of the jacketing - are they roughly equivalent between the Belden/Canare and Monoprice stuff? I'm looking to avoid the oxidation effect (if for no other reason than aesthetic) that I got with the home depot wire. It's clear that the jacketing on my home depot stuff is reacting with the wire the whole way down the strand, not just the stripped portions. It's a semi-transparent jacket and I can see the entire length of wire has turned green.

I'd also prefer a cable with more flexible core (more strands). The Belden BJC stuff is very stiff, from what I can recall, and wasn't particularly easy to terminate.

I'm looking to avoid the oxidation effect (if for no other reason than aesthetic) that I got with the home depot wire. It's clear that the jacketing on my home depot stuff is reacting with the wire the whole way down the strand, not just the stripped portions.
Buy cable with an opaque jacket. Then you won't notice the oxidation. :)

I'd also prefer a cable with more flexible core (more strands). The Belden BJC stuff is very stiff, from what I can recall, and wasn't particularly easy to terminate.
The Belden's double-wrapped—two insulated wires, with an outer sheath. That might have something to do with its flexibility. But I had no trouble putting banana plugs on it.

The Belden and Canare stuff that BJC sells is pricier, and IMO better made cabling. This isn't relevant to performance, but the jacket material isn't brittle and cheap like the monoprice. Monoprice is a great value, but I would be concerned about pulling large amounts of it, if you twist the conductors together hard you can see the insulation whiten from the brittle(cheap) nature of it and that it doesn't stretch nicely. On the other hand, this makes working with the wire easier than belden/canare stuff, but I would characterize it as less rugged. This all mainly has to do with the workability and pullability of the cable though, not performance. Note that Canare wire is not UL rated, this may be very important obviously if you're going in any walls.

I agree with Chris above. I have purchase from both monoprice and Blue Jeans and I do like the Blue Jeans cables better in terms of build quality. Can't say about sound quality as I didn't even try to look for a difference, but I definitely like them better...

I also appreciate the fact that KurtBJC above has come on this forum and straight up answered all questions and concerns. How many companies do that any more? If you want any info from them all you get is a scripted reply from a non qualified person working the phones...

I have some Home Depot 12g wire I'm looking to replace that's WAY too green to be functioning in tip-top order (I've had it for 8 years).


Surface oxidation has zero effect on wire, at least as long as you don't try to reterminate it. It is hard to solder oxidized wire without cleaning it, and cleaning it can be work.

It is also hard to make new screw or binding post connections with corroded wire. You should never crimp a new connector on oxidized wire without thoroughly cleaning it.

However, a good connection of any kind will be gas-tight to some degree, even a screw terminal connection,

Soldered and well-crimped connectors can be counted on to be gas-tight. There will be no added corrosion under the solder or the crimp, the wire will have contact points that are as clean as the day you made the connection.

Soldered and crimped connections can be totally scary - covered with green slime, and still be working great under it all.

I suspect that a lot of lore about cables making dramatic improvements are due to people reusing corroded connections. The corroded connection may have been OK until it was loosened and tightened, but if there was corrosion on the contact points the second time, then sound can easily be compromised at that time or later on.

Also, connectors with wiping contacts like bananna plugs can be at least temporarily self-cleaning. If they are corroded, unplugging and replugging may cause a temporary cure.

If you have a cable that has corroded contacts, then any cable that lacks corroded contacts can easily sound better.

Yes, speaker cables. I suppose I was referring to the construction (materials) of the jacketing - are they roughly equivalent between the Belden/Canare and Monoprice stuff?

I'd also prefer a cable with more flexible core (more strands). The Belden BJC stuff is very stiff, from what I can recall, and wasn't particularly easy to terminate.

I find this concern with the cable itself to be kind of curious. IME the most unreliable portion of cables is the termination and about 1 inch of wire leading up to it. In the case of a home audio system, the connectors and the cables receive relatively light use.

I find this concern with the cable itself to be kind of curious. IME the most unreliable portion of cables is the termination and about 1 inch of wire leading up to it. In the case of a home audio system, the connectors and the cables receive relatively light use.

KurtBJC pointed out much earlier in this thread that the jacketing can cause premature corrosion of the cabling if not appropriately selected. This clearly happened with my 0.35 cents/foot home depot cable. I wanted to make sure that if I select the monoprice cable, it wouldn't occur with it too.

I want to terminate with bananas instead of continuing to bare wire everything, since I occasionally will upgrade components, move equipment around in my living room, or do any number of other activities that require rewiring of the speakers. Since I need to add terminals, I thought new wire was called for on account of the heavy corrosion of my old wire. Plus, lets face it, for $75 I can wire my entire living room. Not a big deal and it looks a hell of a lot nicer.

With the DIY screw type bananas, the wire core must be bent over the lip of the banana terminal and screwed down upon. When faced with the prospect of doing 16 of these, I'd like to choose wire of equivalent guage that has more (smaller) strands rather than fewer (larger) strands. I bought the BJC Belden 10g for my fronts and recall that the strands are fairly large in that.

KurtBJC pointed out much earlier in this thread that the jacketing can cause premature corrosion of the cabling if not appropriately selected.


That would be premature cosmetic surface corrosion, noticable only because of the clear jacket. I have some of this same HD cable kicking around the house. The good news is that I terminated it with standard dual bananas and soldered-on spades when I cut it up, so it is good until the terminations break.


This clearly happened with my 0.35 cents/foot home depot cable. I wanted to make sure that if I select the monoprice cable, it wouldn't occur with it too.


I hate to tell you this, but when it comes to corrosion, you pobably don't have any guarantees about what it will look like in 8 years until the 8 years are up.

If you are really worried about this issue, your best bet might be wire that is tinned/plated/otherwise coated with a metal that is less easily corroded than bare copper, or one that is coated with a metal like silver, that has corrosion that is electrically benign.


I want to terminate with bananas instead of continuing to bare wire everything, since I occasionally will upgrade components, move equipment around in my living room, or do any number of other activities that require rewiring of the speakers.


That's all good and pretty much my practice, as I mentioned above. One byproduct of doing this is that the wire can corrode in the jacket, and other than aesthetics, its nothing.

Be aware that even bananas wear out under heavy use. One probably only sees that level of use on a test bench situation, but it has happened to me.


Since I need to add terminals, I thought new wire was called for on account of the heavy corrosion of my old wire. Plus, lets face it, for $75 I can wire my entire living room. Not a big deal and it looks a hell of a lot nicer.


I agree that once wire gets so corroded that you can't cut the ends off and find fresh contact surfaces, its probably time to do a total replace with something that has a reasonable price.


With the DIY screw type bananas, the wire core must be bent over the lip of the banana terminal and screwed down upon.


Historically, virtually all bananas were screw type, so us old timers know exactly what they do over time.


When faced with the prospect of doing 16 of these, I'd like to choose wire of equivalent guage that has more (smaller) strands rather than fewer (larger) strands.


Be aware that wire that is too finely stranded causes assembly problems of its own.

[/QUOTE]
I bought the BJC Belden 10g for my fronts and recall that the strands are fairly large in that.[/QUOTE]

When you are assembling bananas, the critical sucess factor is strain relief. That means that if you wiggle the cable, there is no bending or shifting where the cable hits the contacts.

With large gauge cables I often back out the screws, and bore out the wire holes with a drill to accept the larger conductors. I then cut off the provided strain relief, bore a couple more holes in the plastic body, and thread a ty-wrap through the holes so that it provides an adequate strain relief for the cable.

This may seem like a lot of work, but if I do a bunch of connectors in a batch, it all goes pretty quickly using hand tools. Of course practice your act one connector at a time until you are sure of your results.

That all said, I'm hoping to switch as many home speakers as possible to Neutrik Speakons. Now *there* is a speaker connector!

So what's the verdict should I buy cable from monoprice?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024008&p_id=3954&seq=1&format=2

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/index.htm

So what's the verdict should I buy cable from monoprice?

YES, they work 100% and they are cheap...no reason not too!

I've bought from both Monoprice and Tartan. I wanted to try a Tartan HDMI cable and it was roughly the same price as Monoprice, so I thought, what the hey. They shipped it just as fast, despite Monoprice being a lot closer to me. I kind of like Tartan's design a bit better, but I think it's a wash between them.

Never tried BJC, although they sure look nice. (Yes, I know Tartan is a division of BJC, but I've never had a BJC branded one.)

I have always been pleased with BlueJeans cables. They seem to design their products using engineers, not marketing sheet guys. Cable is not magic, just an engineering problem, usually made worse by poor component design like using an op amp to drive an interface.

I run Generic 10 gauge zip cord for speaker wire. Yes, I can here differences in cables, but different does not mean better. For speakers, it is purely a matter of how many circular mills you can bring to bare. For a Sub, welding stinger is hard to beat. If you speaker has a crossover in it, you have no effective damping anyway, so it almost does not matter.

I ran Kimber for a while as I had an interference problem it solved ( An illegal CB radio transmitter next door) . Engineering solution for a real problem. Not magic. Actually, thought it smeared the mids a tad but I did not have the equipment to measure what was going on.

I can here [sic] differences in cables:rolleyes:it is purely a matter of how many circular mills [sic] you can bring to bare [sic].True (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-circular-mils-d_819.html).