I have a 7.1 Channel Onkyo HT-S790 I'm working on setting up in my front room, or "Great Room" area if you will.
Unfortunately, it's the only room in my house I can place it right now.
So I have done my due diligence & researched till I have hit a brick wall.

You'll see in the image that I have posted below, of the relevant area as well as surrounding rooms it opens into, that I have done my measurements & positioning for the LF+C+RF speakers & mapped out where I plan to place them.
http://lh4.google.com/ynotcomputing/R7fEMKCAXYI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/xk9bbmG_iYg/s800/MyFrontRoom.jpg
The left speaker is 13deg. & the center is 16deg. from the center position between the 2 primary listening chairs. Also I plan to place the LF, C & RF above my rear sliding door, which has blackout/thermal drapes on it. I'm not sure whether to put them on the 6" or so of wall above the drapes, having them hang down. If I do it this way I'll have to break equidistant layout from the center & put the RF over to the right about a foot or so. Or mount them to the start of the vault.

Of course pointing them down to the seating position.

It's really the best I can do in the room without placing one speaker in the kitchen & one over at the neighbors place. ;-)

What would you suggest I do with the remaining Surrounds & Rears?
I would know what to do in a room with a normal ceiling, but with the vault I'm at a bit of a loss.

For reference the peak point of the vault would be a horizontal line running right between the 2 Recliners & the reclining Loveseat. Right in the walkway, that's the highest point. Also at that point is the 3.5' wide, 8' high, half wall stuck right there in the middle.

I have placed some estimates to the best known speaker positions. However they'll have to be placed up high on the vault, or a combination of the half wall & side wall, then the rears on the vault. I don't know if that's to high, or if it really doesn't matter as long as I set the delays. But I don't think delays apply to height, just length.

Also, my front & center onkyo speakers have no mounting holes, etc.. So I'd have to drill them, which I have no problem doing. But it looks to me like the back MDF panel is only about a 1/4" thick. I'm a little concerned about the screws staying put! I'd take apart the speaker & mount some reinforcement, but.. It looks all glued up & I have never opened one of these things & can't afford to goof up on my only pair. :eek:

Please help, thx!

See photo's of the room here: LivingRoom (http://picasaweb.google.com/ynotcomputing/LivingRoomPhotos)

Any ideas anyone?

First off let's not call it the "Great Room" anymore. Let's call it what it really is, the Terrible Room or walk-in closet. Secondly lose the wreath. And lastly get a good pair of headphones because that space is too narrow for effective surround sound. Good luck!

Oh, thank you so much for being such a cynical know it all!!
That was just so helpful.

I'll call it a cathedral ceiling if I want to, heck I can even call it the Video Dome if it pleases me. But just for reference, it is classified as a "Great room"!

Look it up. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_room)

Unlike you I may not be able to afford to live in a mansion, or have a dedicated Home Theater room. So like many, many others here I have to work with what I have. Even if it isn't perfectly ideal.

Not to mention I have seen much smaller setups that sound far superior to other systems in dedicated rooms. So the room isn't really so much of what it is, or how it's shaped. But what you do with it.

If that's not good enough for you, and all you can do is criticize what others have then you really should take your, critical, demoralizing & absolutely worthless comments which are wastes of typing, internet bandwidth & server space, to those around or in close proximity to yourself that must surely appreciate that sort of thing!

It's most certainly not appreciated here, by anyone accept maybe those like you, if there are any others. :eek:

Your remarks are uncalled for & really don't mean a thing to myself!
It just simply shows me that your someone who has nothing better to do than write such criticism, either because your an angry person, or because you are trying to fill some empty void in your own life.

Whatever you do, I'd center the front 3 on the TV or vice versa. Having the speakers offset sideways from the TV will sound really weird if you're watching a movie. Maybe some cheap speakers stands would be a good alternative to wall mounting and give you more placement options. You can probably just set the center on top of the TV.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?Webpage_ID=3&CAT_ID=34&ObjectGroup_ID=515

I actually have some speaker stands. But it's not an option right now as I have a houseful /w 1 teenager & 2 small rambunctious children. Plus 2 dogs that are even more nutz, but not as constant as the kids. ;-)

I'd love to use them, but i just can't right now.

Why would having the fronts offset from the TV be a problem?
Please enlighten me as to your thoughts.:D

Every setup I have seen is that way, even the Dolby layout guides recommend a 22deg. - 30deg. displacement from the seating position.
Which at my seating distance, is almost 20ft. apart, @ 22deg. if I could even place them there. One would have to be in the neighbors yard about 5-7feet away from the side wall & the other would have to be over the kitchen sink.
That's like almost 15-20ft. off the top of my head recollection.
I didn't write it down since I wasn't going to do that. LOL!

BTW. I plan on toeing them in to align the tweeters with the seating area, as well as pointing them down to hit the seating are instead of shooting right over it.
They won't be flat against the wall.

Why would having the fronts offset from the TV be a problem?
Please enlighten me as to your thoughts.

Every setup I have seen is that way, even the Dolby layout guides recommend a 22deg. - 30deg. displacement from the seating position. Because you see someone talking but the sound is coming from 'over there.' Trust me, it's really distracting. The Dolby guidelines you mention always have the TV dead center -- the center channel is directly over or under the TV and the R&L are equal angles to the sides from the center. Move the speakers or move the TV -- your choice. Center the speaker array on the TV, not on the room.

Because you see someone talking but the sound is coming from 'over there.' Trust me, it's really distracting. The Dolby guidelines you mention always have the TV dead center -- the center channel is directly over or under the TV and the R&L are equal angles to the sides from the center. Move the speakers or move the TV -- your choice. Center the speaker array on the TV, not on the room.

That makes a lot more sense explained that way. Thx!!! :)
I often wondered about that, so since I can't put the TV in Dead center, I need to center the speakers around the TV.

Makes good sense. So from what you have clarified, then even having them Toe'd in, it'll still matter that they are off center from the picture & cause odd delays. Did I get that correct?

I actually plan on putting the TV up against the rear wall with the slider on it. However I can't do that until I get the dough to build a platform & buy some matching carpet for it. As I'll have to make chair rows that way to fit what I have in my room, in-line with the screen & sound.

It'll be at least 6mo to 1yr. before I'll have the means to do that. So for now, I'll have to keep the TV where it's at.

So then that leaves me with the problem of centering the fronts & the center with both the 2 recliners you see at the back of the room in the map & the love seat on the side of the room.

I figured I'd just place the center listening position between those 2 recliners & then whoever sits in the love seat I guess is just out of luck! Which unfortunately is me. :eek:

What to do?

I thought about even putting the TV on the long wall & placing the furniture so the backs are facing the kitchen are & the drop wall/hallway zones.

That'd be pretty close to the TV though!
But I'd rather have that, than the neck strain I'm getting from sitting in that love seat /w my head cocked to the right to watch the TV.

GRR!! I Hate the way they build houses these days.

Also, you mention equal angles. So it's a bad idea to have it 16deg. on one side & 13deg. on the other side as I have mapped it out currently?
Which will be a bit off as I'm planning to place the FL speaker out about 6" from the left wall, so the FR speaker will have to come to the left to match & make it equidistant.

I figured it was more important for them to be equidistant, than the angles be within the dolby guidelines, or make the angles even at the least.

Thx. a bunch!

I'm not sure about your HTIB but most receivers can adjust the volume and time delay (distance) of the speakers so they sound about the same even if they are a bit nearer to or farther from the listener. So go for equal angles rather than equal distance. That said, there isn't a big difference between 13 and 16 degrees. Your room is a compromise no matter how you look at it with a wall on one side and open space on the other. Just do the best you can but, whatever you do, the center speaker that contains all the dialog needs to sit right on top of the TV so the voices seem to come from the TV.

I'm not sure about your HTIB but most receivers can adjust the volume and time delay (distance) of the speakers so they sound about the same even if they are a bit nearer to or farther from the listener. So go for equal angles rather than equal distance. That said, there isn't a big difference between 13 and 16 degrees. Your room is a compromise no matter how you look at it with a wall on one side and open space on the other. Just do the best you can but, whatever you do, the center speaker that contains all the dialog needs to sit right on top of the TV so the voices seem to come from the TV.

My AVR has all those functions.

Now, if I put my center right on top of the TV.
It'd end up like this.
http://lh4.google.com/ynotcomputing/R7pd1aCAXZI/AAAAAAAAAQw/Atk2CS_j3HM/s800/Room-wCentOnTV.jpg
Which seems totally goofy! Not to mention it'll likely end up with one funky sounding front sound stage.

Then I could do this.
http://lh3.google.com/ynotcomputing/R7pd2KCAXaI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/meTCTlwYf_M/s800/Room-wCentOnTV_L_R_Moved.jpg
But then there is no sweet spot really. Sure I could point the tweeters at the red x there, but I still think it'll sound way off.

I can't see your second pic. If you rotate the TV so it faces the sweet spot and shift it to the right a bit, all your speakers (R&L on stands) will be at about the same distance. The stereo spread is a bit narrow but that's not necessarily bad if you're mostly watching movies rather than listening to music. The way movies are mixed for a big screen, the R&L speakers are at the edges of the screen -- somebody walks to the left of the screen and their footsteps fade into the left speaker.

I think you'd be better off with the suggestions as stated above, but, you could still place the right speaker on the wall, and put the left speaker on the wall to the left of the TV. I think you're getting hung up on the fact that you'd like both speakers along the same wall for music. In your configuration, you really can't get both to happen properly. Although it's a door, couldn't you move the TV closer to the center of the room, in front of the fixed part of the slider rather than in the corner? Then you could get the speakers to where you would like them. For the surrounds, you'll definitely want an in-ceiling speaker with a movable tweeter element to aim it down to your seating area. It's a difficult room, and compromises are required because of this.

I can't see your second pic. If you rotate the TV so it faces the sweet spot and shift it to the right a bit, all your speakers (R&L on stands) will be at about the same distance. The stereo spread is a bit narrow but that's not necessarily bad if you're mostly watching movies rather than listening to music. The way movies are mixed for a big screen, the R&L speakers are at the edges of the screen -- somebody walks to the left of the screen and their footsteps fade into the left speaker.

2nd Pic. should be fixed now. =)

I actually can't use stands right now due to kids & dogs.
See my 3rd post up, 1st paragraph.

Also I can't move the TV from where it's at right now, otherwise I won't be able to see it from my seat on the side.
*See 3rd paragraph on my 2nd post up form this post.

I think you'd be better off with the suggestions as stated above, but, you could still place the right speaker on the wall, and put the left speaker on the wall to the left of the TV. I think you're getting hung up on the fact that you'd like both speakers along the same wall for music. In your configuration, you really can't get both to happen properly. Although it's a door, couldn't you move the TV closer to the center of the room, in front of the fixed part of the slider rather than in the corner? Then you could get the speakers to where you would like them. For the surrounds, you'll definitely want an in-ceiling speaker with a movable tweeter element to aim it down to your seating area. It's a difficult room, and compromises are required because of this.

Unfortunately it's not that I want to put them on that wall, I'm just needing to avoid putting them on stands.
They can go on the ceiling... Doesn't matter to me! LOL
That just seemed like a logical spot.

I do need to clarify that I'm not using "In-Wall" or "In Ceiling" speakers. They are std. bookshelf speakers that come /w the Onkyo HTIB, that I'll be mounting to a wall or ceiling using speaker mounts.
I'd never, ever, ever, buy or use "In-Ceiling" speakers. Nor would I do In-Wall unless i could find a way to make it sound equal to having them on stands or 'on-wall'.

Also, I do listen to music, but it's not my primary purpose for that room, as I'm well aware of the evil compromises between a dedicated music listening setup & a dedicated HT. setup.

I usually just put on music & work, I seldom have time to sit & listen to it. Even though I do enjoy doing that.

Not sure what you mean by "never will use in-ceiling" speakers, but I do understand you wanting to use the speakers that came with your HTIB setup. Your second pic, now that it's able to be seen, makes the most sense, but I'm not sure how you'd mount them to the sides of the TV without using stands. You're throwing a lot of "can't dos" into the mix here!

Not sure what you mean by "never will use in-ceiling" speakers, but I do understand you wanting to use the speakers that came with your HTIB setup. Your second pic, now that it's able to be seen, makes the most sense, but I'm not sure how you'd mount them to the sides of the TV without using stands. You're throwing a lot of "can't dos" into the mix here!

Wasn't I being pretty self explanatory? When I made the statement: "never will use in-ceiling speakers"
What I meant by that, was that I don't see speakers specifically manufactured for in-ceiling use as being a viable quality audio product. I see way to many sacrifices in output, imaging, directionality, etc.. to ever consider using them for any sort of serious listening environment other than an ambient purpose. Such as whole house audio coverage, entertainment purposes such as under an outside porch, or weather proofed outdoor entertainment structure, etc.. Those are their intended purposes in my book, not for HT or Serious Music listening uses.

Granted I don't have top of the line speakers yet.. or even close. But I have to start somewhere. =)

I trying to be quite flexible in my setup.
I have outlined plans for moving things around in the future, to make it more ideal, also I have stated that I know the setup is un-ideal at the moment.
The only real "can-not's" that I have thrown in are not wanting to use stands & not moving the room right now. The stands are a mute point since I'm mounting the speakers anyway.

Believe me when I say, if you were standing in this room and looking at it's dimensions & being practical, there'd be no other way to place things until I'm ready to build a platform, etc.. to create rows of seating.

What you mention in going for the last picture is perfectly alright. I can mount the speakers to the ceiling above the TV at opposite ends just above the picture, much like they do on a Theater. Then point them at the listening position & tada! No stands needed, no kids knocking things over & no dogs smashing them into the TV. *Don't even ask or get me started on that, that's a whole different subject for discussion at a different time & place* ;-)

I'll do some testing, hopefully tonight on placing the speakers in various spots & seeing how the audio image presents itself.

Any suggestions for doing dummy placement of speakers up on a wall or a ceiling to see how they sound without actually mounting them in place permanently?

I though maybe I'd use my speaker stands temporarily to see how they sound at a certain height & position. But they only go up so high. An expendable & locking rod with super strong suction cups on either end would be awesome, that way I could suspend it between two adjacent walls & hang the speaker from it to test, but alas I have nothing of the sort.

How do the pro's do it? Are they so awesome that they just walk into a room, take some measurements, mark where the speakers go & BAM! That's it & it's right? Or do they sometimes even have to mount them, then move them & do some drywall patch work?

Any particular movies, scene types, etc.. I should use to test for proper placement of the sound field with the audio image?
Keep in mind I'm only doing the fronts & the center at this point. But that's like 70-80% of the soundtrack right there anyway.