Just got the Mitsubishi 1500 as my first projector and whoah i am blown away by the experience. But i am wondering did i make a mistake by getting it instead of the optoma 65? I like the mit, but the black levels are somewhat poor. The optoma 65 has a better contrast ratio so will that help the black level? Just wondering if any owners of either one especially optoma can help me

Try ging into the FEATURE menu and changing SETUP from auto to 7.5. This will increase black level, but you'll need to recalibrate your brightness, contrast and gamma. With SETUP at 7.5 my settings are:

brightness +17
contrast +4
gamma usermode2: high +5, mid +5, low +5

My theater has a black ceiling and burgundy walls and I calibrated with the Blu ray calibrator on the Rattaoullie BD and AVIA and I have excellent black levels at these setitngs. Your settings will be different based on your ceiling walls and lighting.

I just got my 1500 hung up. Wow I am lost on getting this thing optimized. I see where there was a thread on the value of having in professionally tuned. Not sure where I would find someone.

No offense to Legairre, and I don't have the 1500, but raising the IRE to 7.5 will most likely make the black level WORSE (as in brighter).

Also, chances are increasing the gamma level will also do the same.

To test the true "black leve" of your projector, turn the brightness ALL THE WAY DOWN on a black screen and see how much light is still on the screen. Is it a bright, dull grey? If so, the only thing you can do is use an ND filter in front of the lens. This will dim the entire image, but black level performance will significantly increase. Then you can increase the gamma to bring back shadow detail.

I did this on my Infocus 5700 and was very happy with the results (especially since it's a very bright projector to begin with).

When you first do this, you will be inclined to think your image is too dark... but live with it for a few days and get used to it first; if you're watching in a totally dark room, chances are you will be satisfied with the amount of light you're still getting and MUCH more satisfied with the picture quality!

I have the HC1500 and changing "setup" to 7.5 will just crush the blacks. FWIW, I use mine on a home-made N8 gray screen and calibrated it with my I1D2 colorimeter with the AVS HD cal disk (free!:eek:) and the GetGrey disk and my blacks are not bad at all.

Most people settle on "Brilliant Color" - off, "Gamma Mode" - cinema, "Color Temp" - warm, "Sharpness" - (-2) and then get a disk and set your black level with the "Brightness" control and your white level with the "Contrast" control.

(Labeling black level as "Brightness" just causes endless confusion and i really wish it would stop)

Anyway, that'll get you in the ballpark and like I said, use a gray screen, the HC1500 has plenty of output to light it up. :D

I have the HC1500 and changing "setup" to 7.5 will just crush the blacks. FWIW, I use mine on a home-made N8 gray screen and calibrated it with my I1D2 colorimeter with the AVS HD cal disk (free!:eek:) and the GetGrey disk and my blacks are not bad at all.

Most people settle on "Brilliant Color" - off, "Gamma Mode" - cinema, "Color Temp" - warm, "Sharpness" - (-2) and then get a disk and set your black level with the "Brightness" control and your white level with the "Contrast" control.

(Labeling black level as "Brightness" just causes endless confusion and I really wish it would stop. :mad:)

Anyway, that'll get you in the ballpark and like I said, use a gray screen, the HC1500 has plenty of output to light it up. :D

Damn!!! Double post and it didn't even increase my post count!

Pliny has a good point, grey screens also help a lot with blacks.

Still, you might want to try the ND filter first, it's a lot cheaper and easier than a new screen!

No offense to Legairre, and I don't have the 1500, but raising the IRE to 7.5 will most likely make the black level WORSE (as in brighter).

Also, chances are increasing the gamma level will also do the same.

To test the true "black leve" of your projector, turn the brightness ALL THE WAY DOWN on a black screen and see how much light is still on the screen. Is it a bright, dull grey? If so, the only thing you can do is use an ND filter in front of the lens. This will dim the entire image, but black level performance will significantly increase. Then you can increase the gamma to bring back shadow detail.

I did this on my Infocus 5700 and was very happy with the results (especially since it's a very bright projector to begin with).

When you first do this, you will be inclined to think your image is too dark... but live with it for a few days and get used to it first; if you're watching in a totally dark room, chances are you will be satisfied with the amount of light you're still getting and MUCH more satisfied with the picture quality!
Mojo_LA,
No offense taken. These are healthy discussions and I don't pretend to be the most knowledgable person so I appreciate youre response and help.

I notice when I change to 7.5 the screen get a lot darker and the blacks are crushed. but then if I increase the gamma the shadow detail returns and the picture no longer has black crush but has really good shadow detail.

I then calibrate with the BD calibrator on Ratatoullie and the SD version of AVIA. I have a grey screen and the picture looks incredible with deep blacks and good shadow detail compared to the "auto setting for IRE which leaves me with a bright and washed out picture.

Here's a pick. Granted my camera and photoghaphy stink you can still see the blacks are pretty good.104975

Just got the Mitsubishi 1500 as my first projector and whoah i am blown away by the experience. But i am wondering did i make a mistake by getting it instead of the optoma 65? I like the mit, but the black levels are somewhat poor. The optoma 65 has a better contrast ratio so will that help the black level? Just wondering if any owners of either one especially optoma can help me

Just a comment on the CR ratings (you've already received some good advice on black levels) -- Generally speaking, CR ratings are not a good indicator of much. Some companies inflate their numbers, some are very conservative. It's like wattage on a receiver...companies work around the numbers to make their product look better. Point is, 2 projectors both using DarkChip2 will have pretty much the same CR unless an iris or some form of AI is engaged. Optoma uses AI.

Hey guys I have a question about the ND filter that is being discussed. I also have an HC1500 and I'm wondering where I can find a filter. I found some for cameras, will these work? Does it take a special one for the HC1500? Do you have to buy specific filters for each different projector?? Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated. Thanks

Without trying to high-hack this thread but I would also like to know where I could find a ND filter for my HC1500 as well; any suggestions?

FWIW, black level is associated with your device inputs. If your DVD player can pass "blacker than black" then set the IRE to 0. The standard is 7.5 IRE. My understanding is an IRE of 7.5 with a standard setting on a DVD player will give you the exact same black as an IRE of 0 with a "blacker than black" setting. In other words, it just aligns the input signal and output response.

Since cable/dish boxes don't offer that setting, setting the IRE to 0 on your projector can throw off the black levels for "TV".

I am talking in general, not specific to the Mits.
Fwiw.

I just got my 1500 hung up. Wow I am lost on getting this thing optimized. I see where there was a thread on the value of having in professionally tuned. Not sure where I would find someone.


Assuming the price is fair... ill take a cheaper projector calibrated over a higher end unit that isnt.

Calibration can help more than you think. Its more about accurate color reproduction but keep in mind you need to have a controlled enviroment when using a projector.

Mine is really just setup for night time viewing since my entire house is full of windows. I have no light control durring the day.

They also have self calibration kits if you find getting it done is too expencive.

Assuming the price is fair... ill take a cheaper projector calibrated over a higher end unit that isnt.

Calibration can help more than you think. Its more about accurate color reproduction but keep in mind you need to have a controlled enviroment when using a projector.

Mine is really just setup for night time viewing since my entire house is full of windows. I have no light control durring the day.

They also have self calibration kits if you find getting it done is too expencive.

When it comes to calibration I look at it like this -- when my friend comes over and sees my $800 projector with blackout cloth screen and says "wow, this looks way better than mine" and he has a $3K 50" LCD, I'm pleased that I went the calibration route.

Stealthlude is right on the money, a cheaper projector that's been properly calibrated will give you a much nicer image than an expensive projector that hasn't been.

Without trying to high-hack this thread but I would also like to know where I could find a ND filter for my HC1500 as well; any suggestions?

Instead of starting a new topic, I will just repeat the same question.

Will this work?

http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/241661412msk.htm

How would it be attach to the projector? What size? thanks in advance!

Jumbo, let me know if you ended up giving this ND2 filter a shot.

I've always wanted to try one out, and for $10, I may just try it out. Is 37mm the correct size for the Mits? I have the HD1000u, but it's the same as the 1500.

Billbofet, I'm still currently researching this topic.

I was actually considering buying a grey screen but $10 is a lot better than a couple hundreds to achieve the same results.

I'm not sure if 37mm is the right spec. I know there's gotta be something that physically fits over the lens just like the lens cap does so there should be no mods involved.

Anyone has any info please let us know.

Looks like the HC1500 lens if 67mm in diameter.
A confirmation that a 67mm ND filter is needed (or a 67mm step down ring with a smaller filter), would be appreciated for those of us less knowledgeable in the field of optics.

EDIT: looks like 62mm is the size for HC1500

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9605507#post9605507

Thanks folks, time to try this out!!!

Hey Jumbo,
I tried to find that product code on the site and it was just next to impossible.

Is the filter discussed in your referenced thread SKU# SMC62UV?

If you could post a link, that would be great. I'd like to give this a shot.

Billbofet, this is the link to that product in the referenced post:

http://thefilterconnection.com/shopsite_sc/shopping_cart/order.cgi?storeid=*120efbf7b0c405715711be&dbname=products&itemnum=2616&function=add

That is a color correction filter though but it is 62mm and since according to that post, it fits,so I'm assuming we safely purchase a 62mm ND filter:

http://www.2filter.com/prices/nd_filters.htm

such as:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00007L9U9
or (darker)
http://www.amazon.com/Hoya-HMC-NDX4-neutral-density/dp/B00009R9B0/ref=pd_sim_p_1

Thanks for the quick response. I'm going to give the "lighter" one on amazon a try.

Can't wait to see the results.

Thanks again,
Bill

Just ordered it up. Free shipping too!!!

Billbofet, please let me know your results.

I'm ready to purchase the darker filter (4x), from a local RitzCamera so I might get mine before you get yours. :)
I need darker because the HC1500 literally lights up the white walls in my completely dark room :D

While I've been nothing but unsuccessful, I will try to take some before/after shots for you. Wish me luck. :D

can't wait!!!

Yep, good luck Billbofet. Pictures will be great.
I'm really interested in your results because I want to know if ND2 will be enough for me or not.

N2 allows 50% of light
N4 allows 25% of light.

start a new thread when you get the results. That would be a great idea because I too am interested

Guys,

Let me know if you have any requests for before/after shots.

I have HD DVD and Blu Ray, so let me know if there are any particular scenes or shots you want to see. I'll try my best.

I also have a 360 and PS3 if anyone wants game pics.

Guys,

Let me know if you have any requests for before/after shots.

I have HD DVD and Blu Ray, so let me know if there are any particular scenes or shots you want to see. I'll try my best.

I also have a 360 and PS3 if anyone wants game pics.

whatever you can give us will be greatly appreciated. And like I said before, if you would just start a new thread about using a filter with hc 1500 so this doesn't slip through the cracks. At least with me!

Billbofet, I hate to bring the bad news but here it goes - I have measured the diameter of the lens + lip on the HC1500 and it looks to be 67mm and not 62mm like the linked post mentioned. I think I was right the first time.

- to be absolutely sure, take a ruler and measure the diameter of the inside of the lens cap on your HC1500.

I have, myself, decided to order a square filter to avoid any fitting issues:
https://www.adorama.com/CKP152.html?sid=12186619161906

Jumbo,
I'll be fine. I figure out a way to fit it in there.

I currently have a strip of foam strip on the inside of the lens lip since I was having an ever so slight leak of light off to my left. This not only took care of the leakage, it also protects the lens a little better for me.

I'll fit the 62mm in there no problem.

Let me know how the square filter works out.

Also, I have an HD1000u, but everything I have read states it being virtually identical to the 1500.

curiosity bump

My filter should be here tomorrow. Hepefully Billbofet gets his and we'll both be able to post updates.

Hey. Did you guys your filters? Did you play with them yet???

I was expecting my filter to get here last monday. I guess, it takes over a week for USPS to ship a package from NYC to CT (4 hours away). Totally absurd.

I will post results and images the same night I get my filter. Sorry guys.

P.S. On a side note, I was able to achieve a pretty decent shadow detail without the filter (yet) using the Avia disc. If the filter makes the grey blacks, blacker, I will be really satisfied considering the clearance price of this projector!!

Billbofet, I'm still currently researching this topic.

I was actually considering buying a grey screen but $10 is a lot better than a couple hundreds to achieve the same results.

I'm not sure if 37mm is the right spec. I know there's gotta be something that physically fits over the lens just like the lens cap does so there should be no mods involved.

Anyone has any info please let us know.

It's not really the same result. In a room with light colored walls a gray screen will improve ansi contrast while an ND filter will reduce it already from what it's being reduced using a white screen in a room with light colored walls.

Not to mention, a gray screen will give much better ambient light results.

Just my two cents. :D

MTyson, I'm not going to dispute your statement and even argue that a filter is better than a screen,
but I will ask why you think the filter will reduce contrast?

Since the filter reduces light output uniformly, shouldn't it make both the blacks and whites darker equally? In other words, shift the "spectrum" while keeping the difference between the max and min light values the same?

By the way, I'm only taking into account the light that reaches the screen. Not concerned about the surroundings, ambient lightning etc.

I received my filter last week. I took some before pics and I'm finding it may be difficult to show a difference for before and after since I don't have the best camera.

What I'm thinking of doing is taking a shot with the filter covering half the screen so you can see the difference.

It actually does make a difference and it's not as dark as I had expected it to be. I'll do my best to get these pictures posted as soon as I can. I just had tilework done in the basement, so I took the pj down to avoid the dust.

Billbofet, did your filter fit around the lens?

You said, the picture doesn't look as you expected it but it doesn't look dull or wash out does it? Simply darker?

By the way, my filter isn't even here yet. That's what I get for choosing free-shipping 7-10 business days :mad:

The filter does not fit, but I have a strip of rubberized weatherstripping around the lens and that will hold it in place once I put it in permanently. It's not a snug fit by any means, but it will suffice.

The picture does not look dull or washed out at all. In fact, I was kind of shocked by how slight the difference really is. It makes the blacks definately darker, but not inky, inky black. Overall, it drops the brightness, but really doesn't impact picture sharpness. I noticed a very small drop in really dark scenes, but this is prior to calibrating after having the filter on.

Overall, I think it will improve my blacks, but not dramatically. It seems to definately be worth the price and effort getting it.

I'll try to take some pictures either tonight or tomorrow night. It's very difficult to explain I just hope my pics do it justice.

Billbofet,

Thanks for your posts and waiting for pics.

To be blunt about it I think that people are expecting a little too much from the 1500 for black level performance. The mits just does not perform that well in this area. After all for under a thousand bucks what level of performance is expected? I have seen the image this projector throws many times and while it is 'acceptable' the reality is that while a 'filter' will help it will also make the 'whites' darker and takes the 'pop' out of the image.

Image is all a 'personal' perspective and I think the mits 1500 for the price is good enough as it is.

If you need inky blacks then look at an RS1-2, marantz 15S2 or a sharp 20000. You get what you pay for.

I think we all understand the limitations of this projector.

I'm shooting a 85" image from 10-11ft. At this distance, this PJ can put out easily 40ft-L.

I don't care about inky blacks but this is way more light than I'll ever need in a white wall room. If a $20 filter can tone this down, and also decrease the light that spills out into the room, than why not?

where do you get this filter we all speak of?

you can get this filter anywhere, search amazon for example or you local camera store.

it's called a 'neutral density' filter and there's more than one variation but you want the 'nd2'. they come in all kinds of shapes - squares or round. doesn't matter which one you get, just as long as you get it to stay in front of the lens when using the projector. if you want a round one, it must be bigger than 67mm.

Ok, so I finally received my filter.

As Billbofet mentioned before, when I first put the filter to the lens, the difference was less than I expected. I didn't really know what to expect.

But then, I started noticing the little differences. the blacks do get a bit darker which is good but the bigger shocker for me was how the image become more defined, and the contrast popped.

HC1500 is a damn bright projector and I never realized how washed out the image is w/o the filter. My blacks used to bleed light and lose detail but they look better now. They are darker than my Samsung LCD.

I like the new look and I watched w/o calibrating yet, with some ambient light and on a wall so I can't wait for total darkness with a screen. I know it'll look even better.

you can get this filter anywhere, search amazon for example or you local camera store.

it's called a 'neutral density' filter and there's more than one variation but you want the 'nd2'. they come in all kinds of shapes - squares or round. doesn't matter which one you get, just as long as you get it to stay in front of the lens when using the projector. if you want a round one, it must be bigger than 67mm.

So does this mean a 67mm filter will fit?

Or it needs to be bigger then 67mm?

News???Pics???

wow, this is good news indeed. I will give this a shot. Thanks for the efforts!

I will try to post some pics in the upcoming days if no else can - not because I don't want to but because I need to get a handle on my Sony SRL first and I need to hang my screen back up.

Although, I don't think the results will show a clear black and white difference and some people will be disappointed.

Everyone here has a different setup. So remember, you're experimenting at your own risk.

I want to echo what jumbo is saying. I am still trying to find the time to take some nice pics, but it's going to be really hard to show the result. It's almost so subtle it won't be picked up by my digital camera, but I notice it for sure.

I've had a crazy couple weeks, but I'll try my best to get the pics taken.

what's good about using a filter is once your bulb gets old and dims, you pop the filter off, super bright