Title says it all.
What model: Denon/Marantz or wait for some rediculous high end model?

Panasonic DMP-BD30 $399 for me

you should adopt Blu-ray: spend as much as you like ;)

I have the Sony BDP-300, but it's woefully incomplete, esp. on the audio side. Frankly, I'm tired of being screwed by Sony.

Best BD player is (unfortunatelly) still the PS3. The Panasonic BD30 is a nice player (retails for $499 not $399), but has a major audio bug. Denon has the same bug and since the Marantz is a Denon clone, it will probably have it as well.

I hope more reliable companies like Krell, Classé, Ayre and so on will have good players soon. If Denon can fix the audio bug, I'm all in for one.

There is an interesting thread on the "best" player at the BR forum and most seemed to favor the Playstation3. One post said this might be the "best value" player rather than the best player since Denon and Pioneer were not mentioned.

I'm ready to buy a BR player but since this is still not a "mature" produce I wanted a "best value" interim solution. I'd be sending video to my Lumagen scaler and pcm via coax to my Meridian. I have an Ayre SDI DVD player so I am only concerned with HD video.

I narrowed it down to three choices: PS3, Panasonic BD30, and Sharp BDHP20U. What are people here using for BR?

I hope more reliable companies like Krell, Classé, Ayre and so on will have good players soon. If Denon can fix the audio bug, I'm all in for one.

You forgot to mention Theta.:rolleyes:

If anyone can find me a BD machine that unpacks DTS MA/DD THD for PCM delivery, I'd appreciate it, I need one for a customer.

The Denon 3800 supposedly has completely different internals than the 2500, which reportedly has the LF bug. Jeff Talmadge, VP of product development for Denon, has stated that the 3800 will almost certainly NOT have the LF bug.

The BDCI3800 will decode all the lossless codecs and output them as PCM via HDMI.

I've been following this model pretty carefully, as I don't have a latest-generation receiver that decodes lossless codecs. Most folks with pre/pros are in the same situation. I use the AVR 4806 as my pre/pro, and plan on the Krell S1000 once the HDMI/codec upgrades come as standard. Therefore, I'll be able to have all the audio via analog-out of the 3800 for now, and have a choice of connection when the Krell is available.

Hope this helps,

Lee

Forget Sony, esp. the PS3, since the remote must be bluetooth and it does not decode DTS-MA, and is very noisy. The Panny DB-50 due soon many be the choice, with all audio codecs available via HDMI (bitstream or decoded) plus it supports profile 2.0. It will be well under $1000. Let's hope the LFE issue (-5db via HDMI) in the previous model is fixed.

I was looking at the Panasonic BD50 as well as the Denon, but it now seems the BD50 may only have 5.1 analog. If that is the case then that may be off the list. I need analog until the pre/pro segment start to fully implement HD audio codecs via HDMI.

Also found the PS3 to be a POS for the reasons listed above.

There is an interesting thread on the "best" player at the BR forum and most seemed to favor the Playstation3. One post said this might be the "best value" player rather than the best player since Denon and Pioneer were not mentioned.

I'm ready to buy a BR player but since this is still not a "mature" produce I wanted a "best value" interim solution. I'd be sending video to my Lumagen scaler and pcm via coax to my Meridian. I have an Ayre SDI DVD player so I am only concerned with HD video.

I narrowed it down to three choices: PS3, Panasonic BD30, and Sharp BDHP20U. What are people here using for BR?


The 'Value' player has to be the PS3. I have one connected to the 55" plasma...which the kids use for games and is sometimes used for movies. The PS3 was a much better value IMO compared to the Sony S300 which I use in the theater. It has only PCM output capabilities, but I can not complain, it provides basic BluRay playback with respectable results. The PS3 is not a useful toy for the theater in my situation since the remote functions are difficult to integrate into my IR system.

I'm sticking with my Pioneer for now.

Art

The PS3 is not a useful toy for the theater in my situation since the remote functions are difficult to integrate into my IR system.


I believe there is available a $20 Nyko remote that coverts the USB port to an IR receiver. You would have to teach your system the Nyko commands.

Forget Sony, esp. the PS3, since the remote must be bluetooth and it does not decode DTS-MA, and is very noisy.

Also found the PS3 to be a POS for the reasons listed above.


I can live without DTSMA for the moment (this is just an interim player) but if I can hear it from 15' away I would be unhappy.

The reports I read said that the PS3 delivers an excellent HD picture. Are there any problems with the HD picture or SPDIF sound over the HDMI?

I'm sticking with my Pioneer for now.

Art

Which Pioneer are you using? Thanks.

I have bought every new player to come along buying into the hype it had a better picture. Truth is I have yet to see anyone player with a better picture then the others regardless cost.
Im not an audio guy so I cannot on the audio from an authoritative perspective but they sound good to me.

I dont epect to see a better picture on the Denon regardless the $$$$ price tag but I am sure people buying it will say it is beter:)

I believe there is available a $20 Nyko remote that coverts the USB port to an IR receiver. You would have to teach your system the Nyko commands.



There is even a custom rackshelf for the PS3 (Middle Atlantic), I just can't see putting that thing into my custom rackshelf ...

Nor do I wish for the kids to use the theater for gaming.....am I a bad person:p

Forget Sony, esp. the PS3, since the remote must be bluetooth and it does not decode DTS-MA, and is very noisy. The Panny DB-50 due soon many be the choice, with all audio codecs available via HDMI (bitstream or decoded) plus it supports profile 2.0. It will be well under $1000. Let's hope the LFE issue (-5db via HDMI) in the previous model is fixed.

There is a simple USB kit that will enable IR remotes on the PS3 - costs $20. Also, the PS3 fans really aren't that noisy.

Being upgradeable via firmware is a real plus for the PS3 too.

I guess "noisy" is one of those subjective things because I find the PS3 to be noisy, especially compared to the other gear in my rack, including the Kaleidescape 5U server.

Currently using the Pioneer 94HD, no issues, but I'll be replacing it with Kaleidescape's Blu-Ray player/reader when released. (The PS3 is gaming only)

Jim

I'm quite interested to see when the so-called "high end" companies, such as Esoteric, Meridian, etc. who have been selling multi-K DVD/SACD/DVDA/CD players as "universal" players will move to making the new universal player to include BD in there as well. Then there is the tier right below that occupied by Pioneer Elite and Denon players usually with pretty good processing but a notch below audiophile audio components.

With the sea change to audio over HDMI instead of optical / toslink digital audio though, I think we may have a bit of a wait before these companies are ready to leap into this space, since it has always been lead by audio over video, IMO?

nobody was going to make any serious investment into a new HD based/universal player until the war was settled.

It would have made no financial sense.

No Bluray player wow'ing me yet, so I'll stick with the PS3/PS3IRX1. Even broke down and bought a Middle Atlantic faceplate.

I'm good with whatever...HDDVD, BluRay, etc... I'll just get all of them! :)

Already adopted Blu Ray over a year ago ... the issue I have is with the price of the movies ... $35 CAD for a new release ... too much !!!

Yeah they'll come down. I remember when DVD's first came out many of them were $25-$30 and I would buy several a week. Now I have a collection of them and I am about to sell them! :)

"So, are all you rich guys ready to embrace Blu-ray?"

Mike, the rich guys already bought a HD AND Blu Ray a long time ago ;).

The PS3 is far from the best Blu-Ray player on the market.
1. It cannot bitstream any of the HDMI 1.3 codecs. It can only decode them and send LPCM and cannot do DTS HD MA at all.
2. It has a fan that is waaaay to loud.

By far the best player on the market currently is the Pioneer Elite 95FD. This player is rock solid and has no issues what-so-ever. The Panasonic 30 is still plagued my LFE issues and many are beginning to wonder if Panny would be able to resolve it or not? The Pioneer with an MSRP of $1,000 (can obviously be had for less) is the most expensive player on the market; however, it is also clearly the best.

Not to mention its massive heat issues if you don't vent it well. One of our customers left one on inside his cabinet and it felt like it was ready to melt when we discovered it, screaming like a jet aircraft.

One thing the Denon 3800 does not do is output composite or component video similtaneously when outputting 1080P24 via HDMI. It is a small thing, but I like to have another video feed (480i) for my LCD monitor in my equipment room & theater chair..

Goldmund has announced a BR player. It looks like the first high end one.

It's probably going to cost 20x the price of my PS3, and won't be better.

I assume the BR players (specifically the Pioneer -- but any of them) play standard DVD's as well??

Title says it all.
What model: Denon/Marantz or wait for some rediculous high end model?

What model: PS3... I've already had one since a few weeks after they were initially released. ;)

I'll replace it when Denon comes out with something worthy of replacing the DVD-5910 with Blu-Ray onboard. Until then I still need the DVD-5910 for SACD and DVD-A surround sound.

Speaking of PS3, my older daughter and I played Lego Star Wars for hours today on the big screen. Too much fun! :D

Already adopted Blu Ray over a year ago ... the issue I have is with the price of the movies ... $35 CAD for a new release ... too much !!!

One word... "Amazon."

I wonder if it is too late to sell all my HD-DVDs and Xbox360 HD-DVD drive for a decent price. :(

Goldmund has announced a BR player. It looks like the first high end one.

It's probably going to cost 20x the price of my PS3, and won't be better.

Great! My neighbor will love that! He paid $260,000 for one of their turntables, and he had to wait nearly a year for delivery.:eek:

Jim

Wow. That's absolutely a sign that someone has too much money.

Great! My neighbor will love that! He paid $260,000 for one of their turntables, and he had to wait nearly a year for delivery.:eek:

Jim

Sounds like a bargain to me! I'll take two, one for me and one for you.


By the way, the government considers you rich if you make over $70,000/year. At that rate it will take you 4 years to save up for this turntable and you'll still have $5,000/year left for the rest of your expenses.

He thought the $260k was "a deal" because he got it below msrp. (I didn't think anyone at that spending level even bothered to ask for a better price.:D)

i30krab,

PM me your address, I'll put in the order for two and forward you the bill.:)

Jim

Wow. That's absolutely a sign that someone has too much money.

Yup, one week after building his home his wife decided she wanted all the windows to be larger, and 12' floor to ceiling windows in the main living room. He had the builder order the 12' special glass from somewhere overseas at a cost of $170k and another $110k for the remaining windows. (They had to be hurricane proof.)

Rumor is he spent $8.5mil on the house.

Jim

(I didn't think anyone at that spending level even bothered to ask for a better price.:D)

People don't get rich because they are frivolous with their spending... :D



All jokes aside, even if you have money, you still like to get the best deals you possibly can. It is a part of the thinking that helps you make a lot of money in the first place.

People don't get rich because they are frivolous with their spending... :D

*grin* that depends entirely what they are spending frivoulously on.

Take one of my best friends who.. for some strange reason decided to buy up big when a particular technology company went public.

Growth has been... favourable

:)

*grin* that depends entirely what they are spending frivoulously on.

Take one of my best friends who.. for some strange reason decided to buy up big when a particular technology company went public.

Growth has been... favourable

:)

That particular circumstance wouldn't be frivolous depending on the timing and how much information you have about the company, (such as investing in "Google" at initial offering price or closely thereafter). ;)

Frankly, I'm tired of being screwed by Sony.

Quote of the Month. :)

Yep, now they will be the Microsoft of Movies..... :mad:

Cliff

"So, are all you rich guys ready to embrace Blu-ray?"

Mike, the rich guys already bought a HD AND Blu Ray a long time ago ;).

I have both but I'm not rich. Does this qualify me for the rich boys club? :)

Please?

I'm gonna need a rich person to send me some dough though so I can play with the rich club members! Any takers? :D

Cliffy

No mention of the new Denon 3808....this seems to the player to get when it does come out.

My bad...it is the 3800..sorry....

Premium Silver

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/Hel-Semi-Fin-019.jpg$2,021

Althoough neck and neck with the bd30 the extra 20 pounds of stability seem to help when playing loud.

I'm glad I sat this format war out. Excuse me now, I'm going to buy a PS3.

Well I'm not a rich guy but have spent a lot on audio equipment. At some point, I'm going to have to make a choice. Either I'll buy a high-end Blu-ray player to use via the analog outs because I need the improved sound quality, another high-end pre-pro that can decode the new formats or what I think is least likely, because I don't think it will happen, an upgrade to my existing pre-pro. Feeding over 20k worth of amps and even more in speakers the analog out from a 500.00 Blu-ray player, the Panasonic model, just does not make sense and it doesn't sound great:(. Toshiba actually did a decent job with the audio out of it's first generation HD-DVD player. It is not as good as what high end players can do with even CD, but decent. If I had a high-end pre-pro that could so the decoding, I would likely not spend much on a Blu-ray player, UNLESS, it could also do SACD. In that case,I'd be willing to spend 5 grand or more.

I only bought around 20 HD-DVDs. I didn't think HD-DVD was a good enough technology compared to Blu-Ray, despite any format issues Blu-Ray had in comparison to HD-DVD, so I started buying only Blu-Ray eventually. I have 70+ Blu-Ray discs.

I think the title of the thread was intended to be rhetorical... Even the lower half of the top 99% are now middle-class instead of "rich," thanks to Bush. :p

Well it's official. Toshiba gives up. See http://www.dealerscopetoday.com/story.bsp?sid=91234&var=story#91234

I have the PS3 and the IR device but still can't get the codes I need. If someone can point me to a website that explains where or how to get the codes programmed, I would be very grateful.

As for the initial question, I have both. (HD and BR)

I have the PS3 and the IR device but still can't get the codes I need. If someone can point me to a website that explains where or how to get the codes programmed, I would be very grateful.

As for the initial question, I have both. (HD and BR)


Mitch, have you tried remotecentral.com? You can ask on their forum.

Jim

That's how I ended up with the IR device and a PS2 IR remote but it doesn't really work very well. You get around 15 functions and not the ones I need mostly. Other than the remote issue I have been happy with the PS3 as a BR player.

The PS3 is far from the best Blu-Ray player on the market.
1. It cannot bitstream any of the HDMI 1.3 codecs. It can only decode them and send LPCM and cannot do DTS HD MA at all.
2. It has a fan that is waaaay to loud.

By far the best player on the market currently is the Pioneer Elite 95FD. This player is rock solid and has no issues what-so-ever. The Panasonic 30 is still plagued my LFE issues and many are beginning to wonder if Panny would be able to resolve it or not? The Pioneer with an MSRP of $1,000 (can obviously be had for less) is the most expensive player on the market; however, it is also clearly the best.

Item 1 is a preferable situation, since this is merely unpacking of lossless data to PCM before passing it to the DAC in your receiver, as it allows for the interactive mixing of audio by BD-J content which is not possible when the data is passed to the receiver pre-unpacking. Even in the case that there is no mixing going on, unpacking of lossless data is always the same whether on the player or the receiver, since it results in the same "original" PCM stream. All other processing can happen on the receiver just as it does with pure PCM streams. I am curious as to why people have a perception that receiver-based unpacking of lossless streams is better?

I agree that the fan is too loud though.

I am curious as to why people have a perception that receiver-based unpacking of lossless streams is better?



At least ergonomically you get positive feedback if your lpcm multichannel is from dolby or dts.

although maybe not "high"end, I intend to wait for an Arcam bd player, I think the audio side will be quite good. Since that will probably be 12-18 months I'll get by with a ps3 untill then.

I was talking to someone today about my old law office which overlooked the back of the White House. Every time Bush took off or landed in his helicopter, I could see it. Seeing the President became quite commonplace. Of course, I retired 6 plus years ago.

But I certainly remember back to my single days long ago when seeing bush was a big deal.

I was talking to someone today about my old law office which overlooked the back of the White House. Every time Bush took off or landed in his helicopter, I could see it. Seeing the President became quite commonplace. Of course, I retired 6 plus years ago.

But I certainly remember back to my single days long ago when seeing bush was a big deal.

Too bad he didn't retire 6 years ago with you

although maybe not "high"end, I intend to wait for an Arcam bd player, I think the audio side will be quite good. Since that will probably be 12-18 months I'll get by with a ps3 untill then.

I think Arcam are most certainly high end. They call themselves "mid priced", but I dont think $3k for a DVD player is "mid priced".

I used a AV9 in my main room and also used 2 AVR350 receivers in other rooms. The 350 is still unequaled for SQ by any other receiver. I actually used one for a period in a full range Genelec system that was capable of SPLs of 130db whilst i waited for the AV9. Arcam are truly exceptional in terms of SQ and the noise floor is outstanding.

I believe Arcam will do a good job with BD. Word on the street is that they will have an AVR and a Pre/Pro doing HD audio via HDMI by Q4 this year.

Too bad he didn't retire 6 years ago with you

That's funny!

But I certainly remember back to my single days long ago when seeing bush was a big deal.


Who else missed the one above.....I guess that is what happens when you spend too much time online:D

Who else missed the one above.....I guess that is what happens when you spend too much time online:D

That is why I retired after 34 years of my profession;)

Ewwwww!!! :D

And,

EWWWWW!!!! :eek:

Of course I have hddvd...I always pick the loosers it seems. I'm so glad I dont gamble hehe But I'm not going to buy a BR until I have a reciever that'll decode the new codecs because I believe you'll get the best audio performance this way vs. having the player do it. I may eventually get that Pioneer and a Integra to sit this out.

Who else missed the one above.....I guess that is what happens when you spend too much time online:D

I don't think we missed it, we just don't want to get Mark started...:)

Too bad he didn't retire 6 years ago with you

THUD!

That was me falling off my chair! in SHock!

THUD!

That was me falling off my chair! in SHock!


how so?????

I believe Arcam will do a good job with BD. Word on the street is that they will have an AVR and a Pre/Pro doing HD audio via HDMI by Q4 this year.

That is indeed good news if Q4 is real. I've had my arcam gear for a few years now (av8-av9, p7 and a few dvd payers) and love the sound.

I have both, and here's my experience:
1) HD-DVD offered terrific HD pics and sound from the start; Sony's busted launch is well documented.
2) HD-DVD's format was fairly complete by the launch, and Toshiba provided timely FW updates; Sony is still working out the profile formats. If you have a profile 1.0 machine, there is no upgrade path unless you open your wallet - WIDE.
3) Sony promised uncompressed PCM 5.1 as a standard for Blu-ray, and to counter HD-DVD's DD True HD; that promise has now been tossed aside in favor of DD True HD as the new standard, and even 2nd gen players can't decode it. BTW, Fox is releasing Blu-ray titles with DTS-MA - fooking great but who can decode it?

Bottom line, Sony is not to be trusted, so if folks think for one minute that purchasing a Blu-ray player now that the 'war' is over is a safe bet - THINK AGAIN.

I have both, and here's my experience:
1) HD-DVD offered terrific HD pics and sound from the start; Sony's busted launch is well documented.
2) HD-DVD's format was fairly complete by the launch, and Toshiba provided timely FW updates; Sony is still working out the profile formats. If you have a profile 1.0 machine, there is no upgrade path unless you open your wallet - WIDE.
3) Sony promised uncompressed PCM 5.1 as a standard for Blu-ray, and to counter HD-DVD's DD True HD; that promise has now been tossed aside in favor of DD True HD as the new standard, and even 2nd gen players can't decode it. BTW, Fox is releasing Blu-ray titles with DTS-MA - fooking great but who can decode it?

Bottom line, Sony is not to be trusted, so if folks think for one minute that purchasing a Blu-ray player now that the 'war' is over is a safe bet - THINK AGAIN.

Top line ... most people on this forum already knew all of this would happen. Any whining one way or the other is the same as the Bush comments earlier - politics.

*** Sony is the Microsoft... and Toshiba would have been if it had won.

*** HD-DVD was better... but it isn't now, and never had much of a chance in a long term footrace.
Blu-ray had more potential, and is finally capitalizing on it.

*** HD-DVD works... and (other than Samsung) most Blu-ray players play wonderful movies wether its 1080i, 1080p60 or 1080p24; wether its TrueHD, DTS-MA or whatever - most people hear a wonderful movie - most people don't care about the politics. That's why Blu-ray won.

Either way, those that own HD-DVD have enjoyed wonderful HD media and I envy them (not pitty), continue to watch your movies and enjoy.

Yeah, I agree, I dont like one horse races.

At least hd dvd hung around long enough to drop the prices of the bray players somewhat.

My question is where are the hidef downloads? You think by now there would be more of that no?

I have the PS3 in my Krell/Classe system and found it to be a huge improvement over the first generation Sammy I had. Mine is the 40gb version and is dead silent. The bluetooth remote is annoying, I need to get one of those IR converters since I mostly use my Harmony remote. The bitstreaming of DTSMA is not an issue right now for me since the Krell does not have HDMI inputs so I have 7.1 DD or DTS available.

Well for us cheap bastards, the prices of HD units are dropping like a stone, and that's fine by me. Since I haven't watched a movie in my HT since last August (no time, no time), I'm mainly using my HD DVD players as demo units for customers and to test 1080p performance of sets I sell.

Buying a slightly used HD DVD player and 5 movies for $200 CDN is just fine by me. Just snagged Blue Planet for $32 on eBay as well. If I buy 100 movies in HD DVD format, I'll be good for at least 20 years..:)

My question is where are the hidef downloads? You think by now there would be more of that no?

HD file downloads at a full 1920x1080p resolution are too large for the current Internet infrastructure in the USA. Apple introduced their service but the resolutions are pitiful for HT...

The bitstreaming of DTSMA is not an issue right now for me since the Krell does not have HDMI inputs so I have 7.1 DD or DTS available.


Sorry but that's Nothing to be really proud of. The differences in sound are HUGE.

Sorry but that's Nothing to be really proud of. The differences in sound are HUGE.

I'm humbled by your sensitivity:D:D Please don't ever change.

HD file downloads at a full 1920x1080p resolution are too large for the current Internet infrastructure in the USA.

The infrastructure is not the issue. It's the providers that don't offer the higher bandwidth in this country. because they don't need to yet. The back bones in this country, and world for that matter, or more than capable for delivering the bandwidth needed for full resolution download services. What is needed is a provider to break the mold and offer a high speed service for a relatively low price. Then the rest will follow over night.

The infrastructure is not the issue. It's the providers that don't offer the higher bandwidth in this country. because they don't need to yet. The back bones in this country, and world for that matter, or more than capable for delivering the bandwidth needed for full resolution download services. What is needed is a provider to break the mold and offer a high speed service for a relatively low price. Then the rest will follow over night.

There are still large segments of the population that don't even have high speed access capabilities to those backbones, thus a lack of high bandwidth infrastructure is an issue still... Once high badwidth comectability is more ubiquitous, those kinds of services will have a chance to profit enough to stay in business.

Also, many of the services already in place, such as cable, are not capable of significant amounts of bandwidth due to the limitations of their network mediums and shared bandwidth with the increasing size of cable TV signals (which likewise causes them to decrease their own HD quality). Thus the reason for lower resolution services business models like Apple's business model.

DSL is bandwidth limited by distance. So only shorter runs can have high bandwidth. If services like FIOS become pervasive, then people have a greater chance of a higher bandwidth infrastructure, but only very small portions of this country have the kind of unutilized access capabilities you are suggesting.

IPTV when fully implemented is what may mark the end of media recorded on discs. We will store titles on hard drives. This is the promise of FIOS, but full implementation is years away.

My remark re: digital downloads, did the internet not become "popular" until the entire US got internet access? Of course not.
There are always pockets of technology that lead the way, usually on the coasts.
Look, the studios are drooling over direct delivery of HD downloadable content and have tried to make it a reality but it's still too expensive but it will come and it won't be 10 years out more like 5 for the denser urban areas, imo. XBL and others are just the precursor.
MS is in the process of building regional mega-datacenters.
HDM is just a stepping stone to that end.

Your comments are understood, but connecting peoples homes really isn't a huge issue (not including rural areas)

The issue is how to get people to pay for the services. The masses are only now moving from dial up to high speed and the only reason they are doing so is because providers are combining services. from 80/20 4 years ago we should now be at around 50/50.

Now that they have figured out how to get people to pay for the services we will start seeing larger implementations of services. Will it happen over night, I wish. but like you mention, they need to prove profit before moving forward with the details, which is connecting the homes.

I was always format neutral. I want access to as much HD as possible & I dont care where it comes from. Bottom line for me is PQ.
The end of the format war is for the best for many reasons. It does not matter who won, it could have ended the other way around but the war needed to end so we and the manufacturing industry could move forward.
As expected if you were not format neutral you will always see those on the losing side sharing their disappointment but if you care about PQ you havnt lost :)

Every major technological transition has a start point. Problem is, it's sometimes difficult to find the leader willing to stick it out there financially until they believe a market either exists, or can be created within a reasonable time period (read as before the money dries up.)

Eventually, it will happen.

Jim

My remark re: digital downloads, did the internet not become "popular" until the entire US got internet access? Of course not.
There are always pockets of technology that lead the way, usually on the coasts.

Yes, and as of now, there aren't many areas that have the needed bandwidths for quick enough downloads of HD content. If people did, Apple would be making available larger resolutions on their devices. Trying to download 20+ GB is an exercise in futility on most ISPs.

The issue is how to get people to pay for the services.

Having been through all of this myself both in and outside urban areas, in most places the technology hasn't even been available until recently in some form (and in a large portion of this country it still isn't available yet in any form), which is why people are only switching now to faster services. Sadly, cable is still a very limited technology unless they run multiple cable networks separate from each other (which they don't, as it defeats the purpose of utilizing the preexisting cable TV lines...). Cable is a temporary solution, but ultimately a dead end for high bandwidth Internet.

As services like FIOS, and other Fiber to the home setups, start to flourish, a lot will change, but it take a long time to install these kinds of services. As of now, only the more affluent areas of the country even have these kinds of high speed capabilities, and we are paying the premium to fund continued expansion.

Yes, and as of now, there aren't many areas that have the needed bandwidths for quick enough downloads of HD content. If people did, Apple would be making available larger resolutions on their devices. Trying to download 20+ GB is an exercise in futility on most ISPs.

FWIW, with MPEG4, you can do a movie in 1080x1920 in under 10GB and still have it look pretty decent. Anyone know what the 720p downloads take up? I'm willing to be they're under 2 or 3GB.

On Bel Express Vu all HD is now 720p and around 6gigs Mpeg2 max so mpeg 4 would indeed be less.

FWIW, with MPEG4, you can do a movie in 1080x1920 in under 10GB and still have it look pretty decent. Anyone know what the 720p downloads take up? I'm willing to be they're under 2 or 3GB.

I'm not interested unless I can get at least full 1080i resolutions without compression artifacts personally. I have a lot of 1080i movies saved on my DVR via Cablevision (Star Wars hexology, LOTR trilogy, Matrix movies, etc), but sadly the artifact-ing is annoyingly obvious. :(

It is definitely possible to get subpar downloads now, but 1080p full movie downloads is another story.

Goldmund has announced a BR player. It looks like the first high end one.

It's probably going to cost 20x the price of my PS3, and won't be better.

Yup, and it would probably be less reliable :p

Now let's play nice with Goldmund.

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/rackview.jpg

Here are the 20 pound Imported Dvd2500bt ps premimum silver and above is the 58 pound Esoteric ux1pi Universal Transport (barely UPS shippable). My Bd 30 is so flimsy it broke in the trunk of my car while taking a turn.

I see definite value in more sturdy designs and clamor for a next genration BD player to be "barely UPS- SHIPPABLE". Esoteric needs to get a hold of the next gen. pioneer asap.

Goldmund's the outfit that rebadges Pioneer players and marks them up the wazoo, isn't it Cine?

MAX, I hope for those fools ready to spring major coin for a Blu-ray transport get profile2.0, and it decodes every single audio format, as well as provides every single audio format via HDMI bitstream. Anything less would be criminal.

I noticed tha the new Halcro dvd player has Prologic II. A stand alone Blu-ray version of this player with on-board Prologic II that could expand 5.1 high-rez sound tracks to 7.1 would solve most of my problems. I have no indications that this player can do that with even dolby digital but seeing a player with Prologic II got me to thinking.

MAX, I hope for those fools ready to spring major coin for a Blu-ray transport get profile2.0, and it decodes every single audio format, as well as provides every single audio format via HDMI bitstream. Anything less would be criminal.

Totally agreed. To think that the Denon DVD-3800BDCI is going to cost $2k and get away with being a Profile 1.1 is criminal in of itself. I'm also saddened at the fact that neither one of the new Denons can do SACD/DVD-A playback, which has long been a hallmark of their mid- to high-end players for years.

It's for reasons like this I have avoided buying a Blu-ray player. I don't want a PS3 because I don't want to have to deal with the quirks of a game console with a noisy fan in my home theater system. Why can't a set-top player achieve future-proofing? Is anyone listening? Something tells me that it costs more to manufacturer a PS3 than it costs to manufacturer a BDP-S300, yet they sell for the same price.

For one who has no interest in DVD-A/SACD (formats not likely to be supported very much longer) and just wants the best BD player or transport currently available, the Denon makes perfect sense. Will there be something better later on? Undoubtedly... and most likely Denon will be on the short list then as they are now.

Does anyone have a list of which players coming out (or out already) are Blu-Ray 2.0?

Does anyone have a list of which players coming out (or out already) are Blu-Ray 2.0?

Try www.blu-ray.com

I had some firmware with some BDs not playing in the beginning, but I really enjoy my Samsung BD-P1400. Since upgrading, I no longer get dvd's stopping for no reason and any new release on BR plays. For just movie playback to me it's awesome. I don't need a hard drive or internet connection for anything other than firmware upgrades. I just wanna simply watch a movie in HD. When I read those articles on why everyone should wait and NOT buy one now I just don't get it.

Try www.blu-ray.com

Thanks OB.

I have no indications that this player can do that with even dolby digital but seeing a player with Prologic II got me to thinking.The Oppo 970 has PLII (with full adjustability) and the Oppo 980 adds EX decoding, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to have PLIIx built into a player to expand 5.1 to 7.1 before output. Whether player manufacturers actually do that is another story. They may just figure nobody needs it.

Sanjay

The Oppo 970 has PLII (with full adjustability) and the Oppo 980 adds EX decoding, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to have PLIIx built into a player to expand 5.1 to 7.1 before output. Whether player manufacturers actually do that is another story. They may just figure nobody needs it.

Sanjay

Adding PLIIx to the player would be a godsend for those using analog outs and are 7.1 equipped.

Goldmund's the outfit that rebadges Pioneer players and marks them up the wazoo, isn't it Cine?

True That. :)

Adding PLIIx to the player would be a godsend for those using analog outs and are 7.1 equipped.FWIW, Denon's upcoming $2k BD player (not their current BD transport) uses the decoding chipset from their high end receivers. Apparently player-specific decoders that do DTS-HD MA decoding weren't available, forcing Denon to use the more expensive option. However, this means that the decoder chips will contain features typically not found in players but commonly used in receivers: THX post-processing, PLIIx surround processing, etc. I don't know if Denon will activate any of these features, but they will be in there.

Sanjay

The Oppo 970 has PLII (with full adjustability) and the Oppo 980 adds EX decoding, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to have PLIIx built into a player to expand 5.1 to 7.1 before output. Whether player manufacturers actually do that is another story. They may just figure nobody needs it.

Sanjay

EngadgetHD reported that Oppo is working on a Blu Ray player. I'm hoping for a profile 2.0 player with DTS-MA, Dolby True HD, SACD, and DVD-A for $300 or less.

If Oppo can't deliver such a player, I'll probably pick up a PS3 60GB with SACD playback and the Emotion Engine for old PS2 games.

Kind of sad the hoops you have to jump through to get DTS-MA to play back without reverting to the simple DTS core soundtrack.:rolleyes: