I do an internet search for "bluray recorder" and all I get a dreadnoughts from 2004.

So where are all the links to Asian recorders of which there have to be lots of? Right?

I talked with BB manager and they don't carry HDD recorders because they have TIVO and DTV.

Is the future going to be State Owned DVR's for us? Massa?

So where are all the links to Asian recorders of which there have to be lots of? Right?I've only heard of of a couple of Japanese HD-DVD models. And those cost at least the equivalent to $1000 US dollars. But being HD-DVD, those would be a big bust here anyway right about now.

Actually, BB probably wouldn't sell non-provider DVR's even if they were available, because they don't offer as much "incentive".

There are lots of set-top BD recorders available in Japan - I wish they would release them here, even with the high prices... It's always driven me crazy how great technology can get released in Japan but NEVER make it to the US market - like Super VHS w/PCM Digital Audio! Or Hi-Vision LD.

Unfortunately, the cost of this technology is expensive ($1000-$1500) and most Americans are not willing to pay it.

Japan also has the benefit of guide services that manufacturers can more readily integrate. Guide services in the U.S. are largely proprietary (save for PSIP, which most find useless).

Yeah, those Toshiba HD-DVD w/HDD units looked awesome and really had me pumped over HD (Those idiots, if they had brought those units to market first, BR would have had a problem. But they are so greedy and paranoid about people copying content, they put themselves out of business with HD-DVD.)

BR PC drives are not that awfully expensive so STB's w/HDD should not be crazy prices. However, the cost of BR media makes it all a moot point anyway. In fact, the added cost of producing BR media may make it too expensive for any real good use - neither for computer backup/storage or copying movies.

Who knows, BR might be HDTV's cassette, or CED, or Laserdisc, or..... ElCassette! Both HD-DVD and VMD were based on existing technology and could get the job done at low cost. But maybe that was the problem with them - they don't want low cost recordable optical storage in the market place. In fact, the ability to copy giga amounts cheaply and quickly may go the route of buying your Thompson Submachine gun thru the US mail back in the 1930's....

Frankly, D-VHS is still at the top of the food chain and yet, people aren't interested in it.
_________________________

The more I think about this, the BR recorder will never be cost effective. The DVD-DL is not cost effective and I doubt that they will ever get down to 5 cents per GB. So that leaves PC hard drives. Period.

Besides, optical disc longevity is problematic and a very difficult problem for archiving. In this regard VHS, although it degrades, it never goes completely away.

I am seriously considering dropping DVD and loading up on DVHS. The DVD really doesn't have any future with HDTV while DVHS has some modicum if you can find the firewire. A home theater PC is just about the only other way to do HDTV but still, you need the firewire.

Pigs will fly before there are HDMI inputs into any recording device - at least for the next few years while the industry thinks people will settle for this. A few years from now, things may be different.

Pigs will fly before there are HDMI inputs into any recording device - at least for the next few years while the industry thinks people will settle for this.
The Gefen HD PVR (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4306) has HDMI inputs and is already available.

The Gefen HD PVR (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4306) has HDMI inputs and is already available.

But that's just a DVR - no different than the Comcast or Tivo boxes. Due to their limited capacity, you cannot consider them to allow for archiving. For now, its only DVHS. I agree it is likely that the studios have effectively prevented the recording capability from making its way from Japan.

Sony has some formidable HDD/BD recorders in Japan:

http://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Press/200709/07-0912/

I wish they would offer something here in the US.

What a bizarre, cool little Gefen! Now if they had USB to hang many external HDD's onto it, they would have something.

The Sony's are interesting, but then, BR disc prices will never be cheap enough to be a viable media in my opinion.

I guess I've come full circle and really don't care "So Where are the BluRay Recorders?" They will be an evolutionary oddity due to media price.

The sole archival device that exists is the PC HDD which could be an Ext HDD on a DVR (non-proprietary) or HTPC. D-VHS may be OK, but I suspect when D-VHS tape starts degrading, block noise is the result which is quite offensive. WMP codec DVD or some other advanced compression may render DVD userful but playback would be PC only.

All in all, I think the HDTV consortium have truly fouled the water and the pool must be drained. Their coup d'eta was successfull.

But that's just a DVR - no different than the Comcast or Tivo boxes. Due to their limited capacity, you cannot consider them to allow for archiving.
The limited capacity could be overcome if it exported HD recordings to the SD card as advertised (http://www.gefen.com/gefentv/record.jsp). Alas, Gefen crippled this feature. Anyway, Cypress makes a similar HD PVR (http://www.lektropacks.com/view_product_standard.php?product=5&department=&sub1=&show=) that might be able to.

Right now I just want a way to archieve some sports games that were broadcast in high def before needing to erase from the DVR.

The sad part is that I do have a Blu-ray burner on my PC but unless I'm able to transfer the HD content from the cable DVR it is still useless.

Frankly, D-VHS is still at the top of the food chain and yet, people aren't interested in it.


Oh, I'm very interested in it and have a nice deck sitting unused in my stereo rack but TWC has crippled the firewire ports in their SA DVR's and STB's, at least for D-VHS. Some seem to be able to get them to work in a Mac environment. The Motorola DVR's still seem to have working firewire.

Archiguy,

Someone recently posted in a Firewire thread that oddly, the FCC required cable companies to provide Firewire outputs. If true, they have to provide you with one.

RE: Blue Ray Recorders, what? did the FCC think that the Easter Bunny would magically provide product after they mandated the outlaw of analog tuners? Canada is going to let the market make the change all on its own.

Toshiba made an RD-XS32, which was a nice, non-subscription NTSC DVR, with an integrated tuner, hard disk, that also let you burn to DVD-R. It was modestly priced, I have one & my wife can navigate around it. Its our main DVR.
http://www.epinions.com/content_145050275460?linkin_id=3070197

I and many others are looking for an "equivalent" idea to the RD-XS32, that is very simple:
1. ATSC tuner
2. HDD
3. Blu Ray Burner

But as the OP says, there's nothing but "state run" DVR only stuff out there.

Can't see Toshiba making one, but Panasonic, yes. Interestingly, even the NTSC versions of these things are hard to find, they just seemed to disappear.

Here is a Blu-Ray burner for $260.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136137

Can't this one do anything a STB BR recorders can do?

That is a computer drive, there are computer Blu-ray burners available.

The problem is if you want to record say a high def movie or sports game on cable there is no way to transfer the content to the computer to burn it...

That is a computer drive, there are computer Blu-ray burners available.

The problem is if you want to record say a high def movie or sports game on cable there is no way to transfer the content to the computer to burn it...

I have been recording free QAM HD cable with my HTPC for years using a HDHR setup. If I put a BR burner in my HTPC, could I not burn this content to the BR disc?

Also, there are several affordable prebuilt cableCARD HTPCs available. Wouldn't a Blu-Ray burner work with them?

I'm just curious what functionality a standalone BR burner will give you over a PC...

Right now I just want a way to archieve some sports games that were broadcast in high def before needing to erase from the DVR.

The sad part is that I do have a Blu-ray burner on my PC but unless I'm able to transfer the HD content from the cable DVR it is still useless.

Do you have firewire on your cable box? That is really the only way you have a chance to get the video off the box in unprotected digital form(obviuosly HDMI/DVI is protected with HDCP). I'm lucky in that my box(Moto 3416) has it working, and Comcast has the flags turned off for all channels 'cept for the premiums, so I can record HD to my HTPC very easily. However this varies by area, and I believe Time Warner/SA equipment has a whole lot more issues and hardly works if at all. Seems to be some success with motorola hardware.

Check out the thread/sticky at the top of the forum for more info.

I agree, DVHS is the only real way to record protected content, and it is a very small niche market whose only consumers are people like us on this board. But hard disk storage space is so dirt cheap these days, and DVHS tapes are not.

I suppose there are DVD/movie programs that could probably author plain 1920x1080 MPEG2 video files into a format that a BR drive could read, using a BR burner to create the disc.

Or the other possible way to go is this new device from Hauppauge (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=974885)that records via component inputs to H.264 based files, and claims with the software included it can author to regular DVDS and they will play back on BR players that are compadible with the AVCHD profile. Of course you won't be able to fit a whole lot of HD resolution video onto a 4.7GB disc...

I have been recording free QAM HD cable with my HTPC for years using a HDHR setup. If I put a BR burner in my HTPC, could I not burn this content to the BR disc?

Also, there are several affordable prebuilt cableCARD HTPCs available. Wouldn't a Blu-Ray burner work with them?

I'm just curious what functionality a standalone BR burner will give you over a PC...

I dont have an HTPC, I need a way of actually tranfering the content to my computer which is on a different floor.

As to the cableCard's, I'm not familar with them and just starting to look into them now so perhaps you can tell me more about them. Does it work with your households existing cable provider and will I get the same channels I do elsewhere in the household (comcast sportsnet, HBO, MAX etc)?

Do you have firewire on your cable box? That is really the only way you have a chance to get the video off the box in unprotected digital form(obviuosly HDMI/DVI is protected with HDCP). I'm lucky in that my box(Moto 3416) has it working, and Comcast has the flags turned off for all channels 'cept for the premiums, so I can record HD to my HTPC very easily. However this varies by area, and I believe Time Warner/SA equipment has a whole lot more issues and hardly works if at all. Seems to be some success with motorola hardware.

Check out the thread/sticky at the top of the forum for more info.

I agree, DVHS is the only real way to record protected content, and it is a very small niche market whose only consumers are people like us on this board. But hard disk storage space is so dirt cheap these days, and DVHS tapes are not.

I suppose there are DVD/movie programs that could probably author plain 1920x1080 MPEG2 video files into a format that a BR drive could read, using a BR burner to create the disc.

Or the other possible way to go is this new device from Hauppauge (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=974885)that records via component inputs to H.264 based files, and claims with the software included it can author to regular DVDS and they will play back on BR players that are compadible with the AVCHD profile. Of course you won't be able to fit a whole lot of HD resolution video onto a 4.7GB disc...

Hi ak (neighbor),

I'm previously from Philly but my current township is between Pottstown & Reading and my cable provider is a company called Service Electric (although we get the same channels as comcast). Right now I have 2 cable boxes one is a pace the other moterola, at least for several more hours until they arrive to replace the moterola box.

Someone can correct a debate I'm currently having with my wife and the cable company. As I said I have two boxes in the house and pay the extra fees to have the same premium channels and hd package on both boxes but for some reason I do not get all the HD channels on both boxes. Stubborn me insists I should have all the same channels on both but the cable company and my wife keep informing me I'm wrong.

Example I can get the HD comcast sportsnet on which ever box is dedicated as the master box but not the other box. So right now I get sportsnet hd on the pace box but not the moterola but I get HBO HD on both boxes.

The Hauppauge looks to be an affordable temporary solution although its still not out and keeps getting delayed.

My original point though is wondering why if PC BR burners have been available for a half year now is it so difficult to release a stand alone burner so that we can record either live while were watching a show or transfer it from a DVR? It just doesnt seem that different to me...

My original point though is wondering why if PC BR burners have been available for a half year now is it so difficult to release a stand alone burner so that we can record either live while were watching a show or transfer it from a DVR? It just doesnt seem that different to me...
Stand-alone Blu-ray recorders have been released in Japan. As for why they have not been released in the US, maybe the manufacturers think there would not be enough profit to do so.

Archiguy,

Someone recently posted in a Firewire thread that oddly, the FCC required cable companies to provide Firewire outputs. If true, they have to provide you with one.


*Sigh...* As I've mentioned many times, no they don't. The FCC has never, not even once to my knowledge, made any effort to enforce that "mandate", as those of us who have tried that approach know all too well. I was told, flat out, by my cable company TWC, that they just didn't care about my concerns with firewire and they weren't going to even look at the issue. Since they crippled the 1394 ports at the firmware level, they don't even bother to set the 5C flags anymore (which I verified by the HDCP diagnostic screen). If they ever gave that fabled FCC mandate any thought at all it was just to have a hearty laugh about it at the expense of those suckers who tried to draw attention to it. I tried for over 3 years and eventually just gave up.

The FCC, you see, has bigger fish to fry. Why, they're going back 5 or 6 years to fine stations for any display of forbidden flesh that may have slipped by the censors and gotten on the air. That is what they see, at least in this current bizzaro political environment, as their "mandate".

I'm just curious what functionality a standalone BR burner will give you over a PC...
Fair question.
Not everybody wants to integrate a PC (and all that it entails with respect to virus protection, security patches, proper drivers, spyware filtering, uninstall & reinstall, maintaing a stable config, support for the OS going out the window when you still need it, etc, etc.)

TomsHT is correct, it shouldn't be difficult at all. If you buy a "cablecard" HTPCs, make sure it also delivers free OTA ATSC. This can be nice when the cable goes out.
An appliance that would include:
0. Embedded OS
1. ATSC HD tuner, QAM tuner
2. HDD for cache, time slip etc.
3. Blu Ray burner for archive
Could be bought, plugged in and used immediately.

The device serves you.

You don't have to update the patches, open the case, verify driver versions, change the oil or anything.

I use and love my HVR-1600 with ATSC & QAM tuners. But the mainstream shouldn't have to maintain a PC, just to do some PVR'ing.

Does the cablecards work with your households existing cable provider or is it OTA or its own service?

Does the cablecards work with your households existing cable provider or is it OTA or its own service?

Theres a lot of chat regarding individuals' ability to decode "clear" QAM, which should work with the cablecard (I think). It seems just a matter of time before cable compainies "lock this down" though. Typically the over the air signals via QAM are "free".

But just make sure they specify Digital Over the Air capable as well, if the cable goes out, you have a free, alternative.

This thread has info about cableCARD PCs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=934453

The modern PC has become a very simple appliance. The only maintenance I ever do on mine is restart it if it has a problem. I've had to restart my DVR as well.

So for the price of one of these fancy pants Blu-Ray recorders from Japan, you can get a prebuilt cableCARD PC that can record any cable TV channel and burn the shows to a disc.

Vista Media Center is quite superb. You can find out more about it here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/mediacenter/default.mspx

Please correct me if I'm wrong here but my whole point about the cablecards and why I'm looking for a standalone blu-ray recorder is that this will not provide me with the hd channels and shows that I want to record (comcast sportsnet, HBO, Max etc)

TomsHT,

The problem with cablecard is that you need a recorder with cablecard. Actually, the idea isn't that bad because you could have 10 devices with cablecard that access the cable independently - like in the good ol' days.

Actually, I seem to recall one of the last, great Panasonic DVD HDD recorders actually had cablecard, but someone may have to correct me on that one. I do believe that particular recorder went for close to $1000 on eBay after it was discontinued.

It is so frustrating that our government outlawed and mandated the transition to HD, I suppose thinking that foreign manufacturers would magically leap into our stagnant market with oodles of product.

I think we're in the Dark Ages of Television.

The WHOLE POINT of cableCARD is to allow access to premium content, such as HBO.

TomsHT,

It is so frustrating that our government outlawed and mandated the transition to HD, I suppose thinking that foreign manufacturers would magically leap into our stagnant market with oodles of product.

I think we're in the Dark Ages of Television.

It seems that:
There are tons of devices that do some of what one wants
And a few devices that might do all of what one wants

But you get the feeling that CE mfgrs are more than a bit tentative on this stuff.