Is it just me or or has the picture quality on Dish Network HDNet gone down again?

Yesterday I watched Enterprise on HDNET and it looked very much like what has happened to the SD channels.....

For example - on head shots the actor’s eyebrows move around on their foreheads as they turn their heads. In one shot one of them had dirt on his face and it seemed to float around on his face as he talked.

It’s a sad day when HD looks sooo nasty. It’s looking more and more like the only way to get real HD is with Blu-Ray…..

Are they trying to cram even more HD into their already over-loaded system?

Anyone else notice? I took a quick a look around and didn't see the problem on other channes - at least not on a quick scan....

Oh my, 'delayed' eyebrows with head movements! Reads like a display quirk, such as sluggish liquid crystals. Don't see anything like that here, using an 'ancient' CRT RPTV display. HDNet's PQ still seems tops, although it appears my cable STB and/or head end processing is minimizing some higher resolutions since ~1300 effective resolution lines from HDNet's Saturday 6:30 am ET test patterns is typical here, (including some 1080p-display folks), while some on smaller cable systems can resolve ~1920X1080 from HDNet. (Suspect 800--1100 lines (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9314235&&#post9314235) would be maximum for a 24p-based drama, though.) -- John

Thanks John,

I just checked and it does look like it is back to normal.... Mostly... I don't see the 'Floating Eyebrow' problem anyway! Still seems a little softer than normal.

I still have the recording from yesterday and it does look nasty. Almost like that nasty VH1 Classic channel..... Serious MPEG issues there.

I hope they weren't trying out cramming another channel onto the same transponder.... Why have HD if it's not HD?

Something is going on....

There is a show called Get Out on right now. Normally I wouldn't watch a show on Vegas show girls but this I'll take one for the team and watch a little!

Major breakups... Not like a rain or snow storm but tiny little squares during just about any movement at all. Not good.

I'm not sure if the problem is with Dish or not - anyone with DirecTV care to take a look before the show is over?

I know it's not my equipment because I ran over to the neighbor's house and it is doing the same thing there.

I saw The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance the other night and it didn't even look like a decent SD DVD upconvert. It had no detail and had lots of edge enhancement.:(

Art

I saw The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance the other night and it didn't even look like a decent SD DVD upconvert. It had no detail and had lots of edge enhancement.:(

Art

Do you also have Dish Network?

HDNet and HDNet movies have been very sharp to me lately on Dish... but not all programming is of equal quality.

Was this a season 1 episode of Enterprise? The Season 1 episodes I've seen on HDNet look zoomed or something strange, like they didn't make HD masters of them as they have for the later seasons.

Liberty Valance looked sharp to me the other night, though I didn't watch the whole thing.

Thanks for posting Mike...
I've been waiting a long time to finally get DishNet Hi-Def. Finally got it on Friday, and one of the first HD shows I watched was Enterprise on HDNET. It was the third season episode "Extinction"- part of the Xindi story arc. To say I was disappointed by the "hi-Def" quality of the picture would be a gross understatement. I think my season set DVD of Enterprise were better then whatever that mess they were showing on HDNET via DishNet. I had high hopes of recording and archiving all the Enterprise episodes in Hi-Def, but was totally bummed by the terrible picture quality of "Extinction" so I never even bothered to check the Monday and Tuesday episodes this week. I'm going to give "Exile" a shot tomorrow and hope the PQ is drastically better than the first episode I saw on Saturday. Some of the better season three episodes are coming up next week (The Council, Similitude, Proving Ground, Harbinger, etc) so I'm really hoping the picture quality picks up!

The one that I recorded and first noticed the nasty quality is episode #75....

There is no doubt the quality has gone way down hill.... I have watched Enterprise before and the quality was much better than yesterday's....

I'll check again off and on over the next few days but it is so bad that DVD is indeed better quality. Not sure who to blame but at this point I'll just give up on HD quality and go back to DirecTV so I'll at least get quantity.... Sucks big time.

replayrob - Sounds like you have my luck!

I have posted about bad quality with HDNet Movies in the past - I have Dish. However the quality seems to vary widely -sometimes it's very good.
Last night Torchwood on HDNet looked superb.

There is no doubt the quality has gone way down hill.... I have watched Enterprise before and the quality was much better than yesterday's....

I'll check again off and on over the next few days but it is so bad that DVD is indeed better quality. Not sure who to blame but at this point I'll just give up on HD quality and go back to DirecTV so I'll at least get quantity.... Sucks big time.

replayrob - Sounds like you have my luck!
There's no doubt that Dishnet sends it's "HDLite" at 1440x1080i , but with a good master and decent bitrate 1440x1080i can be very good. This morning I checked out HDNET and the PQ was excellent, so I'm betting it was the source material that was lacking. I'm recording today's episode at 1PM, so I'll check the stream info (resolution and bitrate) tonight. If the quality is just as bad as Saturday's episode- HDNET will be getting a few emails from me....:(

I've found HDNet quality on FIOS to be consistently good. As another FIOS AVS'er (BFDT) did a study of the average bitrates for different HD channels on FIOS found, it is one of the best available. Just subjectively, I clear my time to watch a movie on HDNet when there is something appealing. FIOS does not compress the incoming signal at all, so the picture and bitrate is as delivered by the provider.

Here are the values:

Average bitrates on some of these channels will vary by up to 20% depending on content.FiOS HD bitrates as of Dec 23.

Code:
Channel------------------Resolution---Average Bitrate ---Peak Bitrate

TNT--------------825----1920x1080------17.8----------19.4
ESPN-------------826----1280x720-------18.1 ----------20.0
ESPN2------------827----1280x720-------17.8----------20.0
NFL Network------828 ----1920x1080-------16.8----------17.0
CSN MidAtlantic---829----1920x1080-------16.6----------17.7
HD Net------------833 ----1920x1080-------17.3 ----------19.2
HD Net Movies----834----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.7
Universal----------835----1920x1080-------10.5----------?
HD Theater--------836----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.2
Wealth TV---------837----1920x1080-------13.3----------14.0
National Geo.------838----1280x720--------13.3
MHD---------------839----1920x1080-------17.0 ----------18.1
Food Network------840----1920x1080-------14.2----------15.0
HGTV-------------841----1280x720-------18.0----------18.2
Lifetime Movie-----845----1920x1080-------15.0----------18.0
Discovery---------846----1920x1080-------12.5----------15.0
HBO---------------851----1920x1080
Cinemax-----------852 ----1920x1080
Showtime----------853----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
TMC---------------854----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
Starz!--------------855----1920x1080-------11.0----------14.0

As you can see, HDNet carries an evarege bitrate of ~17 Mbits, which is excellent and provides no pixelation (boxing) as far as I've seen.

There's no doubt that Dishnet sends it's "HDLite" at 1440x1080i , but with a good master and decent bitrate 1440x1080i can be very good. This morning I checked out HDNET and the PQ was excellent, so I'm betting it was the source material that was lacking. I'm recording today's episode at 1PM, so I'll check the stream info (resolution and bitrate) tonight. If the quality is just as bad as Saturday's episode- HDNET will be getting a few emails from me....:(

My money is on Dish screwing around.... I just watched a few minutes of Dan Rather with Willie and picture quality is not good. Not as bad as the Show Girls or Enterprise was but still not what HD used to be. Just about any movement on the screen and you can bunches of little squares.

Dish is probably trying to fit another channel onto the transponder. DirecTV has them against the ropes - I'm sure they are desperate to get more HD regardless of how much they have to lower the quality. DirecTV and Dish Network both know that most of their customers don't care so they are pushing it.....

hernanu - I wish I had access to real HD.... Count yourself as very lucky!!!

hernanu - I wish I had access to real HD.... Count yourself as very lucky!!!
Yeah, those FIOS bitrates and screen sizes rock!
I just found out that our town tried to squeeze 10% of the profits out of Verizon to allow FIOS in, so Verizon told em to shove it! Looks like we're stuck with downrezzed/low bitrate satellite or Cable with very few HD channels (no HDNET for Cablevision subscribers) :(:(

hd net has been one of the very best hd pq channels from dish

i haven't checked out the recent degradation of their signal, but if remains garbage, it's one more reason to switch to d*.

I saw The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance the other night and it didn't even look like a decent SD DVD upconvert. It had no detail and had lots of edge enhancement.:(

Art

Wouldn't your observation be more helpful and relevant if we knew who your provider is?

Is it just me or or has the picture quality on Dish Network HDNet gone down again?

Yesterday I watched Enterprise on HDNET and it looked very much like what has happened to the SD channels.....

For example - on head shots the actor’s eyebrows move around on their foreheads as they turn their heads. In one shot one of them had dirt on his face and it seemed to float around on his face as he talked.

It’s a sad day when HD looks sooo nasty. It’s looking more and more like the only way to get real HD is with Blu-Ray…..

Are they trying to cram even more HD into their already over-loaded system?

Anyone else notice? I took a quick a look around and didn't see the problem on other channes - at least not on a quick scan....

I noticed that too while watching Enterprise on both my old A2000 and my new XBR4. Just to be sure, I watched it on my television in the bedroom which is a good old CRT and it did the same thing so I don't think it was equipment related. Looked like terrible compression. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come with Dish Network.

I've found HDNet quality on FIOS to be consistently good. As another FIOS AVS'er (BFDT) did a study of the average bitrates for different HD channels on FIOS found, it is one of the best available. Just subjectively, I clear my time to watch a movie on HDNet when there is something appealing. FIOS does not compress the incoming signal at all, so the picture and bitrate is as delivered by the provider.

Here are the values:

Average bitrates on some of these channels will vary by up to 20% depending on content.FiOS HD bitrates as of Dec 23.

Code:
Channel------------------Resolution---Average Bitrate ---Peak Bitrate

TNT--------------825----1920x1080------17.8----------19.4
ESPN-------------826----1280x720-------18.1 ----------20.0
ESPN2------------827----1280x720-------17.8----------20.0
NFL Network------828 ----1920x1080-------16.8----------17.0
CSN MidAtlantic---829----1920x1080-------16.6----------17.7
HD Net------------833 ----1920x1080-------17.3 ----------19.2
HD Net Movies----834----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.7
Universal----------835----1920x1080-------10.5----------?
HD Theater--------836----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.2
Wealth TV---------837----1920x1080-------13.3----------14.0
National Geo.------838----1280x720--------13.3
MHD---------------839----1920x1080-------17.0 ----------18.1
Food Network------840----1920x1080-------14.2----------15.0
HGTV-------------841----1280x720-------18.0----------18.2
Lifetime Movie-----845----1920x1080-------15.0----------18.0
Discovery---------846----1920x1080-------12.5----------15.0
HBO---------------851----1920x1080
Cinemax-----------852 ----1920x1080
Showtime----------853----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
TMC---------------854----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
Starz!--------------855----1920x1080-------11.0----------14.0

As you can see, HDNet carries an evarege bitrate of ~17 Mbits, which is excellent and provides no pixelation (boxing) as far as I've seen.


NICE!!! Congratulations! You got FIOS with FULL REZ and BITRATES. Cant wait for FIOS to start rolling here in my area :)

Is it just me or or has the picture quality on Dish Network HDNet gone down again?




Gone down? Ever since they went HD-Lite it has always been crappy.

HDNet is still MPEG2 on Dish and starved for bandwidth. I have seen macroblocking and compression issues due to bit starving for quite some time. Only when it goes MPEG4 will it get better rather than worse. A full bandwidth HDNET signal is at the top for PQ.....but we don't see that on Dish.

I have posted about bad quality with HDNet Movies in the past - I have Dish. However the quality seems to vary widely -sometimes it's very good.
Last night Torchwood on HDNet looked superb.

Monday's Torchwood had obvious low-bitrate issues on my 46" screen at 8 feet, but it was a whole lot better than the previous Monday's, where the noise in low-light scenes that I've been told is present on the original tape was blown up all in your face by the compression. What was weird was that normally-lit scenes were almost pristine.

They mix HD and SD on the transponders, don't they?

I was flipping through my "All Channels" guide the other night, just because I like to check it out every so often for new channels, and they have indeed added at least a couple of new SD channels (that I could tell) since the last time I checked. So they're at least adding more SD somewhere. Even when they're not adding HD ones, they seem to be adding SD ones every few months I've noticed.

Have you guys watched the NHL on Hdnet? Oh my god it is just the pits on E*. Doing a side by side with the same game on the NHL Center Ice HD in MPEG 4 it is no comparison. Just terrible. I hear it's only averaging about 9mbps right now and 1440x1080 I believe. Dish mpeg 2 channels suck the big one.

I've found HDNet quality on FIOS to be consistently good. As another FIOS AVS'er (BFDT) did a study of the average bitrates for different HD channels on FIOS found, it is one of the best available. Just subjectively, I clear my time to watch a movie on HDNet when there is something appealing. FIOS does not compress the incoming signal at all, so the picture and bitrate is as delivered by the provider.

Here are the values:

Average bitrates on some of these channels will vary by up to 20% depending on content.FiOS HD bitrates as of Dec 23.

Code:
Channel------------------Resolution---Average Bitrate ---Peak Bitrate

TNT--------------825----1920x1080------17.8----------19.4
ESPN-------------826----1280x720-------18.1 ----------20.0
ESPN2------------827----1280x720-------17.8----------20.0
NFL Network------828 ----1920x1080-------16.8----------17.0
CSN MidAtlantic---829----1920x1080-------16.6----------17.7
HD Net------------833 ----1920x1080-------17.3 ----------19.2
HD Net Movies----834----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.7
Universal----------835----1920x1080-------10.5----------?
HD Theater--------836----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.2
Wealth TV---------837----1920x1080-------13.3----------14.0
National Geo.------838----1280x720--------13.3
MHD---------------839----1920x1080-------17.0 ----------18.1
Food Network------840----1920x1080-------14.2----------15.0
HGTV-------------841----1280x720-------18.0----------18.2
Lifetime Movie-----845----1920x1080-------15.0----------18.0
Discovery---------846----1920x1080-------12.5----------15.0
HBO---------------851----1920x1080
Cinemax-----------852 ----1920x1080
Showtime----------853----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
TMC---------------854----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
Starz!--------------855----1920x1080-------11.0----------14.0

As you can see, HDNet carries an evarege bitrate of ~17 Mbits, which is excellent and provides no pixelation (boxing) as far as I've seen.

WOW!

No one is going to mention the godawful smeary DNR artifacts on HDNet? Every movie capture I've seen has them.

No one is going to mention the godawful smeary DNR artifacts on HDNet? Every movie capture I've seen has them.
I haven't watched any movies on HDNet because I almost got sick to my stomach with the absolutely horrid picture quality of Enterprise on HDNet. I figured I'd give HDNet a chance at a few more episodes, but they've all been brutal. I broke out my Enterprise season set DVD's last night and watched one of the episodes that I just saw in "HD" on HDNet. Well, my SD-DVD's looked much, not just slightly- but much better than the garbage they're showing on HDNet.

C'mon HDNet.... if you care enough to show a series- at least spend a buck on decent HD masters- not the VHS copy of a copy of a copy you guys are trying to pass off as HD :mad: :mad:

I haven't watched any movies on HDNet because I almost got sick to my stomach with the absolutely horrid picture quality of Enterprise on HDNet. I figured I'd give HDNet a chance at a few more episodes, but they've all been brutal. I broke out my Enterprise season set DVD's last night and watched one of the episodes that I just saw in "HD" on HDNet. Well, my SD-DVD's looked much, not just slightly- but much better than the garbage they're showing on HDNet.

C'mon HDNet.... if you care enough to show a series- at least spend a buck on decent HD masters- not the VHS copy of a copy of a copy you guys are trying to pass off as HD :mad: :mad:

How can it be HDNet's problem? Others with other providers have said it looks fantastic. It looks great over my cable. It's simply E* compressing the signal. They're to blame..

How can it be HDNet's problem? Others with other providers have said it looks fantastic. It looks great over my cable. It's simply E* compressing the signal. They're to blame..
Some of their content is very nice, I mean top quality.... but specifically Enterprise sucks. That indicates it's a problem with the quality of the broadcast masters they're using. If it was a general problem with DishNet, all the stuff form HDNet would look terrible- which is not the case.

HDNET looks absolutely HORRIBLE on Dish. Putrid. Unwatchable. I give up. Come on Mark. Macroblocking out the yin yang.

Some of their content is very nice, I mean top quality.... but specifically Enterprise sucks. That indicates it's a problem with the quality of the broadcast masters they're using. If it was a general problem with DishNet, all the stuff form HDNet would look terrible- which is not the case.
No, it only means it's more noticeable in that show. Most of the other stuff they air, except for Smallville, is pretty static where the video is concerned.

Perhaps the compression E* is putting on the channel is just manifesting itself more on Enterprise than on other shows.

On D*, Enterprise doesn't look any worse to me than other productions. However, it's all too compressed in its current form.