Handbrake 0.92 is out as of yesterday. From their site (http://handbrake.fr/)

Apple fans will be delighted over:

Dolby Digital 5.1 (AC3) sound in MP4 files, for a true DVD experience on the AppleTV and in Perian.
Multi-track audio support for Apple devices
iPhone-compatible anamorphic video at its full size
Power users will find:

Variable frame rate encoding with detelecine filtering
More flexible, "loose" anamorphic video
MP4 optimization for progressive web downloads
Dynamic range compression for encoding from AC3 audio
Robust program and transport stream support
Speed freaks will squee at:

A fresher, faster version of x264
Tuning of FIFO sizes by processor count

I like having the option of getting AC3 into a .m4v file now, and the AC3 and AAC in one file would certainly be useful for some folks.

Unfortunately they seem to have broken something that used to work. If I encode a file into an AVI container with H264 and AC3, the encode stalls on the second pass at about 60% or so. Bummer, since that's what I tend to encode. So I'll be sticking with 0.91 for now. Besides, the "fresher, faster version of x264" didn't seem any faster to me.

Is it me, or does this seem to solve a lot of the problems and debate of mini vs. Apple TV?

Because this means that Surround Sound can now be achieved through HB ripped movies storied in iTunes and played on an aTV, right?

And for those that don't want a DVD player or a computer but a media server, this makes aTV the obvious choice, right?

thanks for the heads-up pkscout - been waiting on this one; I don't use AVI containers, so I'll likely go ahead with the upgrade and begin my library building.

This puts the AppleTV on a more equal footing with the mini...

ken

Is it me, or does this seem to solve a lot of the problems and debate of mini vs. Apple TV?

It certainly gets closer. If this update had come out a month ago, I probably would have fixed the drive in my G4 mini, used it just to store the stuff on, re-encoded all my stuff and streamed everything to the AppleTV.

Oh well. I still really like my new mini.

HandBrake also accepts EyeTV files!

woohooo! - Just converted Bourne; Full DD5.1 and excellent picture via AppleTV; Finally - ready to build my library for full integration into iTunes. I need to find the best tagger for getting meta data populated....

ken

Can you edit the files later for frame accurate transport stream cuts?? or Do we still need VideoRedoPlus in bootcamp??

Will have to download this and start ripping some DVD's now that my AppleTV is on the way. Might as well get started now as I have a couple of hundred to rip. :)

I'm sure all are aware, but just in case - HB doesn't strictly rip - It converts the DVD video to mp4; An important distinction for many... Picture quality is excellent and now with DD5.1 passthrough I'm sold... Use AC3 + AAC encode for play on devices that don't decode DD...
(Joseph - I don't know the answer to your question, sorry)

ken

How long does the process take, and do I need a powerful Mac Mini to convert dvds to the proper format for streaming to AppleTV? I have never used a Mac, but I plan to purchase a Mac Mini. I would love to put my dvds on the Mini and stream them to AppleTV.

I use an older dual G4 powerPC ; takes a few hours for each; I haven't timed it precisely - just load and go and return when it's done; A new Mini dual G5 should be better, but it regardless count on a slow process... the end result is great though

ken

Is it me, or does this seem to solve a lot of the problems and debate of mini vs. Apple TV?

Because this means that Surround Sound can now be achieved through HB ripped movies storied in iTunes and played on an aTV, right?

And for those that don't want a DVD player or a computer but a media server, this makes aTV the obvious choice, right?

If it didn't take hours to convert each dvd to an aTV compatible format (in near dvd quality) I'd agree. The thought of converting all those files would be a killer for me. Not to mention a Mini is sill more flexible and can be had (used) for only a bit more then an aTV. Just my two cents though.

woohooo! - Just converted Bourne; Full DD5.1 and excellent picture via AppleTV; Finally - ready to build my library for full integration into iTunes. I need to find the best tagger for getting meta data populated....
ken

What settings did you use. How did it compare to the source file in terms of quality.

How long does the process take, and do I need a powerful Mac Mini to convert dvds to the proper format for streaming to AppleTV? I have never used a Mac, but I plan to purchase a Mac Mini. I would love to put my dvds on the Mini and stream them to AppleTV.

Ripping with a decently powered Mac (like Intel Macs), it should never take much longer than 45 min-1 hr.


If you are already getting a Mini, you might want to consider just using that to hook up to your TV since it can do almost everything an AppleTV can do. You wouldn't need both then.

Then again, the Mini would be a nice little Mac to get started with and hide in the office and then stream to your AppleTV.

If you are doing option B, having both devices, I would consider buying something like a 20" iMac. With the education discount, it really isn't that much more. It offers more HD space and much more power to make ripping/converting DVDs go faster. Also remember with a Mini you may want to upgrade RAM and CPU to make it work faster/better. And you would need an external HD to store movies after about 25. At that rate, you are equal or above the price of an iMac or something similar.

Just some thoughts

If it didn't take hours to convert each dvd to an aTV compatible format (in near dvd quality) I'd agree. The thought of converting all those files would be a killer for me. Not to mention a Mini is sill more flexible and can be had (used) for only a bit more then an aTV. Just my two cents though.

I agree. But fortunately I work at my computer all day. In the past, I have just sat at my desk with a stack of DVDs. When one is done, on to the next. And the whole time it rips/converts I just keep working on what I was doing. With Mac the Ripper I could do about 20-30 a day.

Well, I don't work the whole time, I guess I check AVS forum and MacRumors a few times an hour. :D

Anyone done any comparison with VisualHub (cost) Vs. Handbrake (free). Both seem to do similar things. I found VisualHub to be a bit cleaner of an interface, a bit easier to use, and a might more stable. But I don't have any real time in either and haven't compared the output quality on the same titles. Thoughts?

What settings did you use. How did it compare to the source file in terms of quality.

I used the included AppleTV preset; then changed the audio to AC3 + AAC so the same file would play with non-DD devices (Mac, TVs, iPods etc.)

Left everything else alone (single pass, fixed anamorphic, etc.); Quality was excellent and on a 60" plasma it looked like the DVD on all but the rarest scenes; As an experiment, I the encode again doing a double pass (nearly doubling the time of course) - the video improvement was almost undetectable (perhaps a tiny improvement in those scenes mentioned above -color gradients) - not worth it for me;

Now keep in mind , I use a Lumagen for upscaling - but I use this for both DVD and AppleTV output so it's apples-to-apples (pun intended - sorry); I think all but the ultimate videophile would be very satisfied. My plan is to pick out a few of my all-time favorites and buy the BD for the ultimate picture quality.... with the rest in my iTunes >> AppleTV setup;

ken

I wonder if there is any possible way you could rent a movie in iTunes/aTV, be it regular or HD, and then burn it to your Hard Drive so you can keep it longer than 30 days? Like with some recording software like EyeTv that would record a TV show in such a way?


Another question I have--can you buy HD movies in iTunes/aTV or just rent them?


And another--the iTunes movies you buy (not rent) are of course all viewable in aTV, right?


And a final one--do all iTunes movies to buy or rent come with 5.1 now?

I wonder if there is any possible way you could rent a movie in iTunes/aTV, be it regular or HD, and then burn it to your Hard Drive so you can keep it longer than 30 days? Like with some recording software like EyeTv that would record a TV show in such a way?

You can feed your atv to a dvr, dvd recorder, vcr, or an analog video capture device and record it.

I wonder if there is any possible way you could rent a movie in iTunes/aTV, be it regular or HD, and then burn it to your Hard Drive so you can keep it longer than 30 days? Like with some recording software like EyeTv that would record a TV show in such a way?

I suppose you could feed the analogue output back in and re-record it... as posted above by Andrew

Another question I have--can you buy HD movies in iTunes/aTV or just rent them?
Just rent - (so far)

And another--the iTunes movies you buy (not rent) are of course all viewable in aTV, right?
yes, including any music videos, podcasts, etc.

And a final one--do all iTunes movies to buy or rent come with 5.1 now?
No - in fact only the HD movies (and not all of those, but most of them); this may change over time of course, but in general right now Purchased and Rented SD are AAC-2channel; and rented HD are (almost all) DD5.1; However, I will say that even SD rented/purchased play pretty well for me using PLII for simulated surround;


ken

Ripping with a decently powered Mac (like Intel Macs), it should never take much longer than 45 min-1 hr.

WHA?!? Maybe with a Mac Pro. But with my Core Duo MacBook it takes about 3.5 hours to rip a movie at 2500kbps with 2 passes. Only about 2 hours for a single pass, but that added step seems to improve the quality too much to skip.

Anyone done any comparison with VisualHub (cost) Vs. Handbrake (free). Both seem to do similar things. I found VisualHub to be a bit cleaner of an interface, a bit easier to use, and a might more stable. But I don't have any real time in either and haven't compared the output quality on the same titles. Thoughts? I use VisualHUB more often than Handbrake for ripping to my iPod Video (80 GB, 5.5 gen). Granted, it's been six months since I used Handbrake for that purpose, but I had some problems with iTunes refusing to load Handbrake's rips to my iPod Video. I never had a problem with VisualHUB rips loading to my iPod. It could be I didn't spend enough time monkeying with Handbrake's settings to find just the right combination of settings to please iTunes. Handbrake's default iPod export option didn't work reliably enough for me to avoid second rips on some of the movies using VisualHUB.

That said, VisualHUB screws up AV sync on all my EyeTV 500 recordings unless I go through a two step process of exporting to Program Stream from EyeTV before starting the H.264 transcode.

VisualHUB's manual overscan cropping feature is wonderful for getting rid of letterbox borders and other stuff you'd prefer not to see. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe Handbrake offers frame cropping.) I haven't had as much luck with VisualHUB's automatic overscan cropping, particularly on shows that change the aspect ratio midstream. VisualHUB's automatic cropping always chops off too much or too little... never just the right amount.

It makes a significant difference not to lose 30% of the viewing area on a 2.5 inch screen. Bravo to VisualHUB for the cropping feature!

WHA?!? Maybe with a Mac Pro. But with my Core Duo MacBook it takes about 3.5 hours to rip a movie at 2500kbps with 2 passes. Only about 2 hours for a single pass, but that added step seems to improve the quality too much to skip.

I have a Core 2 Duo 2.16 Blackbook with 2 GB RAM and I ripped almost every single movie with Mac the Ripper in 45 min-1hr Max. I can never recall going longer.

*with one pass I believe

I have a Core 2 Duo 2.16 Blackbook with 2 GB RAM and I ripped almost every single movie with Mac the Ripper in 45 min-1hr Max. I can never recall going longer.

*with one pass I believe

You're talking about straight ripping the disc. I'm talking about actually using Handbrake to convert the DVD to an TV compatible file, which is what the original question was referring to.

You're talking about straight ripping the disc. I'm talking about actually using Handbrake to convert the DVD to an TV compatible file, which is what the original question was referring to.

yes - exactly; ripping is a relatively fast process; It's the re-encode to mp4 for 'native' iTunes/ATV support that takes a long time;

ken

yes - exactly; ripping is a relatively fast process; It's the re-encode to mp4 for 'native' iTunes/ATV support that takes a long time;

ken

Well you can rip and encode at the same time and save quite a bit - using the program that this thread is about.

Well you can rip and encode at the same time and save quite a bit - using the program that this thread is about.

yep - excellent point - that's one reason I like HB.

ken

I used the included AppleTV preset; then changed the audio to AC3 + AAC so the same file would play with non-DD devices (Mac, TVs, iPods etc.)

Left everything else alone (single pass, fixed anamorphic, etc.); Quality was excellent and on a 60" plasma it looked like the DVD on all but the rarest scenes; As an experiment, I the encode again doing a double pass (nearly doubling the time of course) - the video improvement was almost undetectable (perhaps a tiny improvement in those scenes mentioned above -color gradients) - not worth it for me;

ken

It looks like the AppleTV preset selects AC3 + AAC by default, at least in this latest version. So I'm not sure what you changed them. What about subtitles, it looks like they are OFF in the AppleTV preset for some reason. Comments?

Thanks ! ! !

I may re-encoded all the Video_TS to MP4 soon enough.

I thing I have noticed is that in VisualHUB I can select everyone on the drive and just let it do it. With HandBrake you have to add them one by one to the batch.

How big do Handbrake converts usually amount to in file size? Is there a difference in file size with one pass vs. two?

How big do Handbrake converts usually amount to in file size? Is there a difference in file size with one pass vs. two?

So far, using the AppleTV preset, mine are averaging 1-2 GB each. I haven't tried doing two pass.

It looks like the AppleTV preset selects AC3 + AAC by default, at least in this latest version. So I'm not sure what you changed them. What about subtitles, it looks like they are OFF in the AppleTV preset for some reason. Comments?

Why would they default to ON? Do you watch all your movies with subtitles? If you do, I'd suggest you create your own preset.

I have a Core 2 Duo 2.16 Blackbook with 2 GB RAM and I ripped almost every single movie with Mac the Ripper in 45 min-1hr Max. I can never recall going longer.

*with one pass I believe

How are you encoding? MP4 or H.264? I can't see encoding a 90-120 minute movie in 45min while using H.264.

How big do Handbrake converts usually amount to in file size? Is there a difference in file size with one pass vs. two?

It depends greatly on the settings you use. I'm using a modified AppleTV setting that uses 5.1 audio and I've bumped the quality of the audio up to 160kpbs. My file sizes are usually between 2 and 2.5 gigs, depending on the length of the movie.

And there is no difference in file size with one vs. two pass, but there is a noticeable increase in quality.

How are you encoding? MP4 or H.264? I can't see encoding a 90-120 minute movie in 45min while using H.264.

He's not - he's just ripping the .vob files.

How big do Handbrake converts usually amount to in file size? Is there a difference in file size with one pass vs. two?

It's also going to vary with how much quality you are willing to accept. IE recompressing while converting to a different format.

I just did a test to see how what keeping the quality at 100% with a single pass would be from Video_TS to MP4/H.264/AC-3 5.1. I went from 4.37GB to 4.02GB. Now most people use seem to use 25-35% percent compression and end up with a file around half the size.

He's not - he's just ripping the .vob files.

He never answered the question, which is I why I asked. He stated ripped which implies no conversion, then stated "1 pass" which implies encoding. I'm assuming that since he contributed to a thread about Handbrake that he's using Handbrake and not something else (MTR). Does Handbrake even rip without encoding? I don't believe it does.

So my question still stands to phuebs, how are you encoding your movies? MP4 encoding is typically faster than H.264, but the Apple TV preset in Handbrake defaults to H.264 with 5.1 AAC audio.

I'm assuming that since he contributed to a thread about Handbrake that he's using Handbrake and not something else (MTR). Does Handbrake even rip without encoding? I don't believe it does.



No it definitely does not; I don't want to divert the thread in a legal direction; Let's just to say - they don't 'rip' for reasons other than technical...

ken

I was mismatching my programs and terminology. I was talking about ripping speed in MTR only.

iTunes plays the Handbrake encoded AAC+AC3 files with selectable AC3 output through optical on Macs (may be PCs too). However, Quicktime and FrontRow have not way of playing AC3 for these MP4 files.

In iTunes, while the movie is playing - move the mouse around and click on the little bubble icon on the bottom. You will see multiple audio tracks including stereo and surround. Choose surround. I got it to output 5.1 through my iMac's optical to my receiver. Cool. Now, if we can get FrontRow and Quicktime to acknowledge this - it would be great.

iTunes plays the Handbrake encoded AAC+AC3 files with selectable AC3 output through optical on Macs (may be PCs too). However, Quicktime and FrontRow have not way of playing AC3 for these MP4 files.

In iTunes, while the movie is playing - move the mouse around and click on the little bubble icon on the bottom. You will see multiple audio tracks including stereo and surround. Choose surround. I got it to output 5.1 through my iMac's optical to my receiver. Cool. Now, if we can get FrontRow and Quicktime to acknowledge this - it would be great.

They can both play the AC3 tracks if you have Perian installed.

they were also working a solution that allowed Quicktime to pass the AC3 without Perian since it in a mp4 container (although non-standard); Not sure if the final version accomplished this or if Perian is still required...

ken

They can both play the AC3 tracks if you have Perian installed.

I got quicktime to play AC3 track from an MKV container with Perian 1.1 installed. However, with the Handbrake generated AppleTV format MP4 file that has both AAC and AC3, there is no way to select the AC3 track from within Quicktime and FrontRow. The only way I can think of is to delete the AAC track and enable the AC3 track from within Quicktime Pro. I did not try that yet. Can the non-standard AppleTV MP4 file have just AC3 track and no AAC track? If so, I can try to make the Handbrake output just AC3 instead of AAC+AC3 and try it with Quicktime and FrontRow.

I don't know if this is a limitation of MP4, Handbrake, and or VisualHub but my other concerns with moving Video_TS to MP4 are loss of subtitles as some movies use subtitles instead of imbeding the text on the screen, and loss of some kind of chapter skip. Can anyone clarify?

I don't know if this is a limitation of MP4, Handbrake, and or VisualHub but my other concerns with moving Video_TS to MP4 are loss of subtitles as some movies use subtitles instead of imbeding the text on the screen, and loss of some kind of chapter skip. Can anyone clarify?

You have the option to rip subtitles with Handbrake. It also rips all the chapter markers by default.

You have the option to rip subtitles with Handbrake.

I believe that the subtitles are permanently attached to the video by Handbrake. At least, that's the case with MP4 formats for the Apple TV, iPod.

Can the non-standard AppleTV MP4 file have just AC3 track and no AAC track? If so, I can try to make the Handbrake output just AC3 instead of AAC+AC3 and try it with Quicktime and FrontRow.

yes - there is a setting in HB for AC3 only...

ken

I believe that the subtitles are permanently attached to the video by Handbrake. At least, that's the case with MP4 formats for the Apple TV, iPod.

Attached? Does that mean overlayed. So you can't turn them on or off? Thats a problem. Esp with movies that use two different subtitles. One for everything and one for only the stuff that would have been captioned in theaters.

I'm finally ripping my movies, they look great at the standard apple TV settings, and sound is 5.1, no problem with crashes at all, and of the 10 rips I have done all completed no problem. Highly recommended.

I'm finally ripping my movies, they look great at the standard apple TV settings, and sound is 5.1, no problem with crashes at all, and of the 10 rips I have done all completed no problem. Highly recommended.

I've had a couple of issues with subtitles and one movie that wouldn't rip (Die Hard 3), but it was very easy to get around the problems (MTR for Die Hard).

I've been impressed with the quality of my DVD's converted with Handbrake. The only problem I run into is subtitles. For example, I can't get the subtitles for The Phantom Menace to show at all. I've tried messing with the subtitles options but nothing seems to work. Anybody had any luck with this?

I've been impressed with the quality of my DVD's converted with Handbrake. The only problem I run into is subtitles. For example, I can't get the subtitles for The Phantom Menace to show at all. I've tried messing with the subtitles options but nothing seems to work. Anybody had any luck with this?

Don't know why anyone would actually want to watch that movie, but there is a topic about it in the Handbrake forums. You have to select the right subtitle track.

Don't know why anyone would actually want to watch that movie, but there is a topic about it in the Handbrake forums. You have to select the right subtitle track.

Found the right post in the Handbrake forums. Thanks.

As for Episode 1, the wife likes it. And as long as she doesn't complain about me always buying these wonderful toys like the Apple TV, I've got no problem ripping her movies for the ATV.

A belated comment on Visual Hub vs. HandBrake. For handling interlaced content HandBrake is far and away superior because it has motion adaptive deinterlacing, unlike Visual Hub which simply discards have the fields (HandBrake's "Fast" deinterlacing method)

A belated comment on Visual Hub vs. HandBrake. For handling interlaced content HandBrake is far and away superior because it has motion adaptive deinterlacing, unlike Visual Hub which simply discards have the fields (HandBrake's "Fast" deinterlacing method)

good point - aren't all DVDs 480i?

ken

good point - aren't all DVDs 480i?

ken

Not really. A lot of DVDs, especially professional ones, are actually encoded at 480p24 with the information on what frames to repeat to created the normal 60i. But VisualHub will not decode the copy protection like HandBrake will.

Not really. A lot of DVDs, especially professional ones, are actually encoded at 480p24 with the information on what frames to repeat to created the normal 60i. But VisualHub will not decode the copy protection like HandBrake will.

gotcha - thanks

ken

I am having some trouble with audio and video sync issues playing my handbrake encodes over the apple TV. Anyone else?

I am having some trouble with audio and video sync issues playing my handbrake encodes over the apple TV. Anyone else?

not me - although I've seen some posts of similar experiences on the Handbrake forum... Especially on the latest release - maybe something to do with settings; might want to check out those boards...

ken

I am having some trouble with audio and video sync issues playing my handbrake encodes over the apple TV. Anyone else?

Not with 0.9.2, but I did with 0.9.1. I remember specifically Ratatouille was out of sync by exactly .4 seconds. That was when I encoded .avi (MP4/AC3). But I did not have that problem when I encoded .m4v (h.264/AC3). Not sure what to make of that honestly.