Brent,

How did you justify the cost of a HDTV set? Have you seen movies on HBO-HD, or SHO-HD ? You can buy the Zenith set top box for $299.00 at Circuit City, it worked great for the month I had it. If you are a sports fan, then ESPN-HD is a must and will not be available ota.

How did you justify the cost of a HDTV set?
Purely for watching movies on DVD and it's been worth every penny. We just don't watch much broadcast television, just a handful of shows really. The only shows we watch every week are Enterprise, The Simpsons, Malcolm in the Middle and That 70s' Show (although we also watch the rare episode of Futurama that Fox deigns to broadcast).

The only sports I watch is a little bit of golf. Although I'd love to see the Masters on HDTV, so far that's about the only golf I know of that is available in the HD format.

Showtime and HBO just don't have anything we'd be interested in watching. We also do some random watching of things like an occasional movie on AMC or TCM (maybe a couple times a year), the odd rerun of Law & Order and we like to catch the old Columbo episodes that show up frequently. But more than 80% of our time in from of the TV (36XBR800) is DVD, we probably see three or four in a typical week and sometimes more.

You can buy the Zenith set top box for $299.00 at Circuit City
Now that's starting to sound good. I had not seen any STB for under $400 (even open-box specials) but then again I haven't been checking very frequently. If I could get all the locals reliably with some sort of simple antenna I'd buy a $300 STB in a heartbeat, especially if I could get it in time for the Masters. I'm am concerned about the pine trees, though, local analog reception with a small antenna on the chimney is plagued with multipath.

Brent,

I guess it's still early yet. I mistyped the Zenith is $399 at Circuit City. I have seen open boxes for $349. You can buy the Samsung online new for $349. Sorry for the mistype! Also I was avid fan of DVD until HD programming became available. I have very nice progressive DVD player, which I thought produced a stunning image. Believe me once you see a movie in 1080i ,you will be stunned. I was renting at least 4 DVD a week when I first got my set. I now have rented 2 in last 2 months. I do realize it is much easier to time shift DVD vs timed programming.

Kevin is absolutely right. I was just watching 480p DVD for about a year or so, exclusively. Then I got a Dish 6000. HBO (when it was real HD) was awesome! Then came OTA (big antenna), then Direct TV. Now I am with TWC and although we still rent a couple times a month, I have focused mostly on the OTA stuff. Alias is the best thing on HD right now, second only to....any sporting event THE KILLER APP! I cannot wait for ESPN HD so I can see my Tarheels lose in glorious 720p!

Originally posted by chummel
I can see my Tarheels lose in glorious 720p!

Gives new meaning to "having the blues" huh?:p

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Gives new meaning to "having the blues" huh?:p

Indeed!

I'm sure everyone is right about the stunning picture from "real HD" but we're probably somewhat out of the ordinary in wanting to watch what we want to, when we want to. Even the little bit of broadcast TV we watch is more often than not time-shifted. And subscription cable or pay-per-view movies would just be totally hit or miss in terms of actually catching something on (and in HD) when we want to watch it.

That's why DVD's were such a revelation to us, it has totally changed our entertainment options for the better. And that's what led us to get the home-theater gear. So, as kevinivey said, it's still early in the HD-adoption curve for people with our preferences. Given a choice between watching a movie when we want to (let's say 6:30PM on a Friday) in "good enough" PQ versus planning to see it at another time (let's say 8:00PM Friday, instead) in amazingly-good quality we'd pick the DVD at our chosen time almost every time. Which is probably odd-ball among members of this forum.

Any word on when TWC will pick up HD NBC?

So WLTX is NOT broadcasting DD 5.1 at present???

Also how long before WIS starts broadcasting HD ??

Does WOLO have DD 5.1 audio with their HD content??

Thanks !!

-- Cain

" 5.1 audio........CBS had to change the model of receiver they are using to deliver the 5.1 audio format. They only purchased enough to send to the top 25 markets. When all of the testing is done, they will roll out to the rest of the country. They tell me it will be around September or so. I am working on other avenues to try and obtain one earlier. I'll try and post to this site when we are going to get 5.1 up and running. "

Originally posted by Dan (WLTX engineer) page 25.
Wolo has been 5.1 from day one.
As stated in previous postings it takes several months before a TWC carriage of HD broadcast. Wis digital has been up for only a month now. If I had to guess around May would seem likely. It took major events to get cable carriage up. USC vs Georgia: Wltx, Super Bowl : Wolo. Sad thing is NBC carries very little sports and none is being broadcast in HD. To bad there are no Olympics this year!

Thanks for the info Kevinivey!

Wis digital has been up for only a month now.

Thanks, I have no interest in TWC HD, I get my stuff OTA.

Is the WIS HD content 5.1 ??

Also, what channel is WIS DTV/HDTV??

Thanks gang,

-- Cain

WIS-DT is Channel 41. I suppose they have their PSIP working so most receivers will receive it remapped to 10-1. Still no word as to when WIS-DT or WACH-DT will get on TWC.

Bruce

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cain
[Is the WIS HD content 5.1 ??


No

I've got a couple of screwed up HD channels today. I would like some feedback from ota users or twc users. Pbs-hd, no picture or sound, CBS-hd staggering picture (started last night). Rebooted box,did not change. Abc-hd is fine,as are the 4 hd movie channels.

Kevin, I've had the pixelating/tiling/blackouts going on for 4-5 days. TWC is coming on Monday to check it out. What's weird is that there are no problems with channel 800 (PBSHD) and all four of the HBO/Showtime HDTV channels. However, Channel 810 (CBSHD), 811 (WLTX Doppler Radar) and 815 (ABCHD) are unwatchable.

Glad (just kidding) someone else is experiencing this besides me.

Pbs-hd back on. Wltx-hd has a slow motion type defect. Audio is way out of sync. I've had no pixelation or dropouts on any channels.


Brian,

It sounds like you may have a weak signal. I used to have the same problems that you described. I can walk you through how to check your incoming signal using the 3100hd diagnostic screen. You can pm me if you wish. Abc and cbs come in at a lower power rate than any other channels on the digital tier, this why it is important that you have a strong signal.

I got a flyer in the mail. "Time Warner Digital Cable* for $39.95/month for 12 months and get FREE installation".

*Digital Cable is define as one Digital Converter and The Digital Preferred Tier.

So am I correct that this offer is $40/month for what's normally a $51/month Basic Cable+Digital Tier? Then would I have to pay $8.95/month extra for the HD-capable box or could I just substitute it for the "Digital Converter" included in the $40/month?

Sounds like HDTV is now a $49/month+tax proposition at worst. Unfortunately, I'd still have to keep a minimal Dish network package so as to keep getting the WWOR/WSBK Enterprise feed. I also need to look up whether The Golf Channel costs extra on TWC like it does on Dish.

I went out and surveyed the OTA antenna situation this morning and it doesn't look good. There's nowhere I can get a clear shot at any of the transmitter sites without looking right through 60+ foot pine trees. Multipath hell.

I got a flyer in the mail. "Time Warner Digital Cable* for $39.95/month for 12 months and get FREE installation".
Brent,
I got the same flier in the mail a month ago and went to the main TWC office to sign in. I was told that this offer is valid only if I trade in my dish and it's only valid for 1 yr, after that it would become "our regular price at the time"
That was too much for me and I left. I will post my final results with the OTA shortly.

Kirill

Brent,

Price change: I am not aware of a price change and feel it might be a time limited promotion for new customers. My wife has not commented about a flyer or that our cable bill has gone down. I will ask her tomorrow and probably even check with TWC next week.

Cable box (converter): so far they have cost the same as the regular box. (i.e SA3100HD and SA2100 both rent for ~$9 with remote and guide). We DO howevr pay $5 more than a standard box for our Explorer 8000DVR (~14/mo).

Golf Channel is on Channel 30 which is on the analog tier and no extra charge. UPN is on Channel 4 [WQHB(63)] and thus has Enterprise. I must add however that I think WQHB has the worst picture quality of our lineup on TWC.

Bruce

addendum: I see Kir has posted a response. TWC has had specials in the past for some folks. It might be possible yours was the same as his but again it might not. I would check on it if your considering TWC for HD.

Regarding HD tonight:

Right now WOLO/ABC HD is broken (black screen with no image; no sound). WLTX/CBS HD appears to working okay as is their weather radar channel. I was out of town today (visiting Rock Hill) and just got home an hour ago and had not even turned on the widescreen until a bit ago. Not sure about yesterday either; it was a DVD night. I think I checked on maybe PBS HD at one point afterwards and saw it was working.



Brian,
While waiting on Monday's tech visit check this: if you have a splitter between the cable box and the wall remove it. Low signal levels can definitely cause problems and splitters reduce that line level by 50%. You might also check for any loose connections..... been there; done that <blush> and possibly remove (temporarily) any other splitters in use too (to maximize the signal available to your HD box).

Bruce

The flyer is headed "8 GREAT REASONS to drop your dish and say Helloooo to digital cable!" so that sounds like the same as Kir's.

No way to confirm without calling them but it is written to seem as though the $39.95 special is separate from the offer to buy your Dish or DirecTV dish and receiver for $100. If it's all contingent on giving them my dish, then it's not for me. I don't care about the 100 bucks but just wanted the $40/month for 12 months part. It sounds like that is $11/month cheaper than the usual $45.00 plus $5.95 Digital Preferred Tier.

I printed out a channel listing from the TWC web page. Basically, the "digital cable" thing applies to extra-cost movie channels and so forth. The channels that I'd ever watch are all good old-fashioned analog cable TV just like c. 1998, pretty much. The "Digital Converter" would be entirely for HDTV reception since there's not a single channel on the "Digital Tier" that I've ever watched or wanted to watch. That's probably a good thing since it's very convenient to use the tuner on the TV and the tuner on the VCR. I'd probably only turn on the Explorer box for HDTV content.

Brent,

That offer you received indeed sounds similar to that Kir was referring to... a promotion designed to entice current dbs users to switch to cable. I can see how one might not want to totally give up the dbs capability just to try out cable. Still I think cable has some advantages but that will certainly be your call based on your needs. So good luck!

Regarding your comment of using the cable box only for HD material... here we regularly use the digital cable box for all programming in the two rooms we have boxes (3100HD in the den; DVR8000 in the master bedroom). The digital cable guide is much improved and much more useful than the simplistic scrolling guide the analog side uses. The remote itself is rather good and rather useful. The computer room has but analog cable and I miss the remote capabilities. Oh well.

Bruce

I used to have Dish Network and took the TWC offer. I however did not give them my 2 perfectly good receivers. I bought a broke directv receiver from the flea market for 5 bucks. All they want is a receiver with a serial number. Sold both receivers for $250.00 bucks ,sold the multi switch for $15 and the lnbs for $30.00 bucks. All sold on e-bay with buy it now .
Also they gave me every channel for the first 3 months at no additional charge and a $100.00 credit.

Keep one thing in mind the sa3100hd outputs 1080i from the hd component cables. No dvi, no firewire, no rgb (except with a adapter).
This means no 720p ,and no streching of anykind using the 1080i output. You must use s-video,which works well on the digital tier,but is somewhat lacking on the analog tier. They need to start switching these boxes with the new more advanced boxes that have already been released in other cable markets (sa4200HD).

I had TWC come out and install digital cable on Saturday (they were 2 hours late). They are also running that promotion here $39.95/12 months with the ability to turn in your DBS reciever and dish for a $100 credit. I switched over from a DirecTivo to a TWC DVR and a 3100HD. I have to say the picture quality of most of the channels are worse that DirecTV. The channels on TWC just look more snowy or pixelated. However, the HD channels are simply stunning, I wish they all looked that good. I have had problems with CBS-HD it has been studdering (maybe I have a weak signal?) and ABC-HD was just a blank screen when ConAir was on last night. And I don't like how you can't change the aspect ratio with the 3100HD.

Also the TWC DVR leaves much to be desired, this is coming from someone who just left a Tivo. The Tivo has cleaner menus, audio cues, and the ability to search guide data is better. I'll give the TWC DVR a chance and see how the wife likes it. I may have to go out and buy an stand alone Tivo2. Anyone have experience hooking one up to TWC cable??? I was all ready to turn in my DirecTivo for the $100 credit but after seeing the pic. quality and DVR I decided to hold on to it and turn it in later if TWC "grows on me".

- Summerall

Summerall,

CBS-HD has been stuttering for a couple of days,don't know if it's TWC or the station. ABC-HD was off and is back on. I tried the 8000pvr,and thought it was it needed a lot of improvement. I use a standalone tivo to time shift. I use it on the analog tier(built in ntsc tuner) ,as I got tired of it controlling the 3100hd.Yes, analog tier has somewhat snowy appearance at times. Have you tried the single composite cable? I think that TWC digital tier picture is better than Dish's. Sell your Directv tivo on e-bay,you will surely get more than a hundred bucks.

Have you tried any of the on demand stuff? Especially HBO ondemand with 5.1.!

Kevin -

Are you saying the Tivo won't work with the digital tier? Or that you just got tired of the Tivo having to control your 3100 to see/record the digital tier? What problems did you encounter with the Tivo having to control the 3100 box. I want Tivo to be able to record all channels (except HD). Does the Tivo use it's guide data when it's connected to the 3100? And I assume your Tivo has 2 tuners with the ability to record 2 channels at once right? So did that mean you had to have two runs of coax to your Tivo box?

Thanks
- Summerall

Yes, it will work with digital box ,but I do not need it to. I get Sho ondemand, TMC ondemand and HBO ondemand. Other than outdoor life I wasn't using it to record anything on the digital tier. The ondemand channel playback is better than tivo (i.e. a better picture) without eating up the hard drive. No, I only have a single turner model(THE ORIGINAL). I of course watch live HD. Even if I had a dual turner,the digital tier is only available using the set top box. You can not set tivo to use its cable ready turner and record from the digital set top at the same time. You will get but one choice and of course the 3100 only has a single tuner. Yes, I have separate coax runs.

I actually have a DirecTV receiver they're welcome to, although I threw the actual 18" dish away. It's my currently-in-use Dish Network receiver that I need to keep.

Bruce's comments about the convenience of the digital box's program guide, etc. are well taken and it may be that I'd want to use it as he suggests.

I'm not sure if or why 1080i output only would be a problem for me. That's native on my 36XBR800, which also does the squeeze so I don't think I'd need any aspect ratio control. Not having 720p isn't the best but I don't know of any programming I'd be watching in that format and it's really just a choice of the 3100HB or my XBR doing an upconvert to 1080i anyway, if I understand the technology correctly.

Summerall, do I take it correctly from your comments that you just showed them you had satellite service and received the $39.95/month rate and you only have to turn in the satellite equipment if you want the $100 credit?

Brent,

Only 4.3 can be displayed via the component cables, unless you are viewing hd. You can only stretch via s-video or composite. Most set top boxes allow you to display 16x9 via component cables in there 480p mode. This why the TWC box is dated and should be replaced with the newer SA4200hd box.

kevinivey,

I'm still not clear on where the problem lies. There's never a situation where I'd want to stretch a picture. If the source is in 16:9 format my TV does the squeeze and acts like a 16:9 TV and if the source is in 4:3 format, well, my TV is a 4:3 TV. Maybe that's what I didn't point out originally, my 36XBR800 is a 4:3 television set.

WLTX appears to remain broken. Stuttering video and the audio is not in sync (analog or digital). CBS HD tonight is very much in doubt.

Bruce

Brent,
Question is what happens when you watch a 4:3 image on a HD channel? Can you zoom in or do you get bars on all four sides? Not all HD sets (even 4:3) can do that. Both HBO and SHO do that a lot; so do CBS and ABC locals for that matter (news; non-scripte programs like Survivor, etc).

Folks stretch to get rid of black bars. Here I rarely will watch a program on a HD channel that way. I will switch to a SD channel (used to do that with HBO a lot when I subscribed to them) or the analog channel (do that with CBS/ABC now say when they do 4:3 stuff) so I can have gray bars or use a stretch mode. I will admit that directview HDTVs/displays are somewhat less susceptible to burn-in than RPTVs (burn-in being uneven phosphor wear and black areas are areas with no phosphor being used).

Bruce

Brent,

I'm pretty sure from reading other postings that the sa3100hd will put black bars at the top and bottom and not let you stretch to fill the screen when viewing HD 16.9. The box will only let you view in it native mode via the component cables. This is another reason the 3100hd is a dated box.HD will never fill your screen with the sa3100hd box. I doubt anyone on this forum is using the SA3100hd with a 4.3 HD set. If anyone is please verify if my information is correct.

If the 4:3 set can zoom on a HD signal then they can use the SA3100HD and view the upconveted 4:3 images w/o bars all the way around. Not many HD sets however can do that trick. Their set has to also squeeze the 16x9 but most HD sets should do that now.

The SA3100HD is a big improvement over its predecessor the SA2000HD so I am not complaining too much <g>.

Bruce

Summerall, do I take it correctly from your comments that you just showed them you had satellite service and received the $39.95/month rate and you only have to turn in the satellite equipment if you want the $100 credit?

Brent -

Well, they are currently running a promotion in my neighborhood (Summit) I don't know if it's specific to this neighborhood or not. The salesman I talked to is named Jimmy Carter I've lost his number but I'm sure you can call TWC and get his cell number, he would know.

Yes, you only have to turn in your DBS equipment if you want the $100 credit. They even let me hold on to my equipment until I am satisfied and then "maybe" I'll turn it in. I love my DirecTivo and I'm currently having withdrawals....

For me how do I decide between HD channels and crumby analog channels with TWC or all clear digital channels with Tivo and no HD. I'm stumped.

- Summerall

OK, I think I'm up to speed on the basic situation thanks to the feedback here and via PM. I understand how you can end up with a windowboxed 4:3 program inside a 16:9-format image, inside a 4:3 TV set and what the workarounds are for that. I don't disagree that it would be nice for TWC to get off the mark with the newer Explorer box.

Tomorrow I'll call and get the exact pricing options from TWC and also try to touch base with "Roy the HDTV guy" at TWC. Thanks for all the answers, I'll post again after I decide what (fi anything) I'm going to do and when.

"I went out and surveyed the OTA antenna situation this morning and it doesn't look good. There's nowhere I can get a clear shot at any of the transmitter sites without looking right through 60+ foot pine trees. Multipath hell."

I have tall pines on my lot and pick up the ota stations just fine. I use two antennas since ETV is in the opposite direction from me. They are my weakest signal at 69-75%. I still have a 90-95% lock rate. It only gets bad if there are storms around. They're transmit antenna for DTV is mounted low on their tower and I live in a valley. This make it hard for me to pick them up. As for the other stations, they all come in with a 80-90% signal strength.

"WLTX appears to remain broken. Stuttering video and the audio is not in sync (analog or digital). CBS HD tonight is very much in doubt. "


I have read several postings from people with TWC who are having a lot of problems with WLTX(CBS)-HD. We are not having any technical issues with our digital transmitter. I watch it everyday with no dropouts or lip sync issues. Remember, TWC picks up our signal OTA and reprocesses it into a QUAM signal(I transmit a 8VSB signal) for their stb. I would bet that most of you could pick up the local stations ota just fine. Maybe you should put up an antenna for a confidence signal. You could switch to it if TWC has problems to see who the culprit is. Just remember, if you can see the ch.19 analog signal you should be able to see the WLTX digital signal even better.

Originally posted by kevinivey
Brent,

I'm pretty sure from reading other postings that the sa3100hd will put black bars at the top and bottom and not let you stretch to fill the screen when viewing HD 16.9. The box will only let you view in it native mode via the component cables. This is another reason the 3100hd is a dated box.HD will never fill your screen with the sa3100hd box. I doubt anyone on this forum is using the SA3100hd with a 4.3 HD set. If anyone is please verify if my information is correct.

I am using a 4.3 HD set with the SA3100HD. You are correct in saying that the HD will never fill the screen. However, I really do not mind the black bars. I'm so used to them now, that it seems unnatural not to see them. Go figure.

Originally posted by Dan'sHiPix
"I have read several postings from people with TWC who are having a lot of problems with WLTX(CBS)-HD. We are not having any technical issues with our digital transmitter."

Dan,

Thanks for the info! I had assumed it was at your end (not remembering that you were not connected via fiber to TWC). oops. Anyway, I just got off the phone with TWC who took my report of the problem. Hopefully they will get on it today and see what is up.

Bruce

See Bruce-
I told you that you should have kept the Zenith 420!

Yeah yeah yeah :)

Say;
While you are here (maybe), we had a number of video dropouts last night during Dragnet.... Gremlins, Sunspots, TWC, or your encoder?

Not major really; just a number of green "fireflies" here and there. (macroblocking?)

Bruce

I don't know about "sunspots" per se but we're near the Spring Equinox so some time along about now should be the period when the sun aligns with the satellites, right? Could be getting close enough to affect the feed that the stations themselves are getting.

I just talked to a CSR at TWC and also to Roy Rushing (nice fellow). The $39.95/month deal includes a digital-cable converter box and if you want it to be a 3200HD in order to get HDTV that's no extra charge. Cool.

Total with tax and fees will be $44.11/month which will include the analog low-numbered channels, the digital-tier channels, rental on the 3200HD and whatever local HD channels they currently carry. No install charge. Roy says let them hook it up and get the regular digital-cable running and then he will come swap in the HD box and hook it up for me.

I can keep my dish or turn it in for the $100 bounty, my choice. This is a 12-month special and when it expires the bill goes up to $63.something/month. Guess I'd better be rid of the Dish by then, eh? I've scheduled the install for later this week. I might be watching that Masters in HD sure enough. How 'bout that?

Hello Hello Hello.

I have been traveling lately ... got back into town friday and noticed the audio problems with CBS and ABC HD channels.

However, I have noticed something else ... the PBS-HD picture seems to a couple of notches brighter than I have seen them before. Its almost like I cranked up the brightness on the TV. The blacks are not as solid as I have seen in the past.

Anyone care to share that experience ?

PBS-HD is one of my favorite channels ... especially when they are not showing the azalea trail :)

Also ... when watching 4x3 material thru HD out .. the sidebars are now dark gray ... they used to be pitch black.

Is it just me ?

Max

Solar transits don't occur at night (duh...) So it wouldn't be that..They occur when the sun aligns up directly behind the satellite in reference to your
dish.. I haven't seen any breakups leaving here, and I didn't hear anything from Ted who watches OTA about last night.
The fact that "other" stations are breaking up on TWC leads me in another direction..
Now if you only had that Zenith we'd really know, now wouldn't we! <G!>

I use two antennas since ETV is in the opposite direction from me.

Hey Dan, do you use a splitter/combiner or do you have the two antennas hooked to separate inputs ??

I have the same issue with PBS..

-- Cain

I have read several postings from people with TWC who are having a lot of problems with WLTX(CBS)-HD.

I live in Lexington, and I get WLTX-HD OTA and it looks terrific, no problems at all.

Dan, what is the status of the 5.1 audio ??

Take care,

-- Cain

Cain,
Are you getting FOX OTA OK?

Kirill

What is that channel number, I'll check tonight..

Is it that 48 channel?? If it is, no it comes in horribly, if at all.

-- Cain

Originally posted by Cain
What is that channel number, I'll check tonight..

Is it that 48 channel?? If it is, no it comes in horribly, if at all.

-- Cain

57.1

Thank you,
Kirill

Bruce,
Ted Small, our Columbia Cheif, watched OTA last night and didn't see
any problems. May be a TWC issue..

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
See Bruce-
I told you that you should have kept the Zenith 420!

I also tried the 420. (which is what it almost cost with tax). I did side by side test and the dropouts over cable and ota happened exactly the same. This is the first time TWC has had this problem. I'm pretty sure they will have it fixed by Masters time. Dan, does WLTX-DT have plans on being a full time station?

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Bruce,
Ted Small, our Columbia Cheif, watched OTA last night and didn't see
any problems. May be a TWC issue..

Theres still someone in Columbia? (-:

What happened Saturday night, Con air in SD ,and then no station at all,just a blue 5.1 light on the ole receiver with no audio. I've seen the ABC demo a lot lately and that ain't TWC.

Bruce,
I also saw the green gremlins last night during Tarzan. I've had video drops from time to time viewing regular SD on Wolo-dt. Wltx has been drop free for along time.(just slow motion lately).

Please excuse my ignorance, but I am new to HD and this forum. I am trying to follow the posts, but I am not sure what OTA means. I assume this refers to reception via antenna rather than cable.

Can someone please educate me?

Thanks

Originally posted by wedive2
Please excuse my ignorance, but I am new to HD and this forum. I am trying to follow the posts, but I am not sure what OTA means. I assume this refers to reception via antenna rather than cable.

Can someone please educate me?

Thanks

Over The Air, yes you are correct. BTW, Wltx-DT via TWC is fixed.

Originally posted by kevinivey
Over The Air, yes you are correct. BTW, Wltx-DT via TWC is fixed.

Thanks kevinivey!

Can somone help me. I'm getting my HD Directv installed Thursday. I'm planning on using my clip-on antenna with the new dish also. Does anyone know if this will be sufficient to pick up the OTA DTV in Chapin. According to an antenna website I found thru this forum, it should work. Anyone have any personal experience with this?

Tritchie,

I think you will find it won't work well at your location but if you already have one no harm maybe it trying it. I just would not hold out much hope. Suggest instead you try an outdoor antenna (attic mounted or roof mounted). I have sent you some more information via a PM about my experiences (I really am a cable user) and hopefully others will relate what works for them. Good luck!

Bruce

yea, they work about as well as a clip-on tie..!

yea, they work about as well as a clip-on tie..!

I know what you mean. I tried for years to get good reception with my clip-on ties and they never got a good picture. However, clip-on bowties work great on UHF. I just wouldn't want to be caught out in public wearing a bowtie, looks too much like a college professor from 1960...

After putting an antenna on a 30ft telescopic mast on top of a 15ft hill (yikes), I finally started getting a strong OTA signal:
CBS - 93%
ABC, PBS, NBC - all 100%
FOX - 0, nothing, nada :rolleyes:

Is it just me, or WACH-DT is having some problems?
I mean we spent 2 days putting this monster up with 6 guy wires and stuff, got all the stations but FOX... Really strange.
Anybody has any insight?

Kirill

Hey Kir, what model and make of antenna do you have??

I would like to use one antenna for al the stations, but have not had that success yet.

Also where in Columbia area do you live??? I'm out in Lexington.

-- Cain

Cain,
I use Channel Master 3016 with the Channel Master 7777 pre-amp.
Our HOA is deep inside Harbison forest (Irmo).

Kirill

Posted on Fri, Mar. 14, 2003

Time Warner offering extra madness in March
By DOUG NYE
Television Editor

GET READY FOR the best sports event of the year -- the NCAA men's basketball tournament.

Sure, I like the Super Bowl and the World Series, but they always pit two teams from major metropolitan areas. On the other hand, the NCAA Tournament involves teams and fans from practically every area of the country. It is truly national in scope.

So for a few moments even the little guys of the college basketball world get their opportunity to grab the spotlight. Remember Valparaiso's run to the Sweet 16 a few seasons ago?

Where else could you find a school called IUPUI dreaming -- if ever so briefly -- of winning it all? IUPUI (Indiana University-Purdue University-Indianapolis) made the big dance this year by winning the Mid-Continent Conference Tournament.

IUPUI and other Cinderellas such as Troy State and UNC Wilmington will find out who they play at 6 p.m. Sunday when pairings for the 65-team tournament are announced on the "The NCAA Selection Show" (CBS, WLTX-19, cable ch. 9).

There will be something extra about March Madness this year for many college basketball fans in the area. WLTX not only will air a game on its regular over-the-air station but also will offer other games on Time Warner's digital lineup during the first- and second-round weekends.

For example, next Thursday, during the first day's action, WLTX (cable ch. 9) will have games at noon, 2:30 p.m., 7 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. At the same times, you also can catch a game in high definition on Time Warner cable ch. 810 and two other games on chs. 811 and 812.

WLTX is one of only 10 CBS affiliates in the country offering such a package, thanks in part to Time Warner's technical capabilities.

"We're pretty excited about this," WLTX general manager Rich O'Dell said, "but we want fans to know that the games we select for our station will be those of greater interest to this region. We will be heavy on SEC and ACC teams as long as they're in the tournament."

Cable customers must be subscribers to the digital package to receive the extra games.

Pretty cool if I must say,thanks Wltx!

I had a Diredtv technician over yesterday to install a new HD dish. He told me that he had word for the upper ranks (don't ask me who that would be) that Directv is going to broadcast local channels in the Columbia market in June. I asked when that would be made public, he said probably June. Anyone who can confirm this same info? I don't want to spend half a day putting up an antenna on my roof for HD locals for 3 months.

DirecTV does not broadcast HD locals anywhere. He was talking about standard NTSC locals I guess. You will have use a antenna if you want to receive local HD while using the direc receiver.

Originally posted by tritchie
Directv is going to broadcast local channels in the Columbia market in June. .

I can't confirm that for sure, and certainly can't deny it. It certainly won't
be HD tho!
So, you'll still need to put up an antenn for HD locals, or get TWC!

Kevin,

I am not sure I would applaud CBS/WLTX's plans to multicast more than they do now (HD plus weather radar) much less for sports programming. The bitrate leftover for the HD will be at most 13.7 mb/s and I wonder if at that level there won't be significant motion artifacts. My concern is they are putting Quantity over Quality. Time will tell. As a matter of reference, SCETV/WLRLK-DT currently multicasts 1 HD and 2SD services and their HD often has lots of motion artifacts (last I heard their HD was at 12.6 mb/s bitrate). Motion artifacts are very noticeable in the demo loop's football game and the aerial shots over in Italy and Crete.

Bruce

Hi Bruce!

Originally posted by tritchie
I had a Diredtv technician over yesterday to install a new HD dish. He told me that he had word for the upper ranks (don't ask me who that would be) that Directv is going to broadcast local channels in the Columbia market in June. I asked when that would be made public, he said probably June. Anyone who can confirm this same info? I don't want to spend half a day putting up an antenna on my roof for HD locals for 3 months.

This document (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6513682174) filed with the FCC by DirecTV explains why DirecTV cannot do HD locals. They also menton that they will increasing their local market's SD service to about 61 in June and by December to 100. So perhaps the Columbia market will be included in there somewhere. The document says "Indeed, if satellite Full ATSC Must carry is ordered, DIRECTV would be able to offer local channel service to "only one average-sized city in the United States.

So... nobody with the info about WACH (FOX) OTA yet?
<pouts in a corner>

Kirill

Last night I picked up 17-1/17-2 from down in Beaufort, also had 25-1/25-2 one night this week.
Jim

The TWC guy is coming today to install a "digital cable" box that should be the 3200HD. If not, Roy Rushing said to call him and he'll drop a 3200HD by my house (which Roy seems to prefer doing it anyway so he can be sure it's set up right). I want to be sure I'm ready when I get home to await the installer today.

Will the installer put a splitter after the line gets to the place where the TV is located? As I understand it, I'll want the cable feeding into the 3200HD box, into my TV's antenna input (so that I can tune the analog channels with the TV tuner) and I'll also want it to my VCR. Will they expect me to daisy-chain everything together or use an external splitter?

The reason I ask is that if I need to supply my own splitter I want to have it there today and make sure there's plenty of signal strength with the splitter in place. I've noticed that my broadcast-tier channels seem weaker passing through the VCR and then to the TV than when I put the cable straight on the TV. That indicates that there's marginal signal strength, right?

sorry 19-1/19-2

Brent,

It is my understanding that TWCSC prefers to install the HD3100HD so they can make sure it gets a good signal (HD requires a better signal than plain old cable). TWC's techs have a signal analyzer unit that will allow them to verify signal quality including both the high and low ends of the frequency bands. Thats good. So far they have not charged for this though it can be a bit inconvenient (can't just pick up the box yourself and go). If Roy were to come out that would be good. Here in Sumter we have Steve who is very good too.

The cable drop supporting your HDTV display should be "home run" to the house's cable box and not be split (actually all cable drops should be home run; no splitters; no barrel connectors). If the signal is good enough you may be able to split before the SA3100HD for say PIP or VCR purposes. If not, then either another home run cable is required or an amplifier added to the system. Here TWC installed an amp as we have 5 tv drops (4 in use). (RR cable drop too but that is a separate split at the house box). A 1gHz splitter (or better) is required); I would think the TWC tech could provide one for you so I would definitely tell the tech what you need to do.

Any splitters or devices in the signal path reduce signal strength and/or degrade the signal. A two-way splitter alone cuts the signal strength in half. So a marginal signal definitely won't work as you will have lots of dropouts in your video/audio. So definitely get them to help you with the splitting!

Bruce

That sounds a lot like what I thought the situation would be. I'm concerned that the guy coming today will declare the 15-year-old feed into the house "good enough" and then Roy will have to make some improvements when he comes.

The segment of the wire from where it's grounded as it first arrives at the house to where it comes through the wall is crummy. There's a beat-up looking length of coax from the grounding block to near where it enters the house, then the previous installer also cut the coax and grounded it to the satellite download grounding block and then I have it interrupted by feeding it through the coax-protection jack of my surge protector. The previous guy also accidentally cut my sateliite downlead in the process although I had multiple bright-yellow labels saying "SATELLITE" on that wire and multiple bright-orange labels saying "TWC" on the previously-existing (from the last owners) cable end and had told him "Don't mess with the satellite wires with the yellow label".

I'm going to remove the pass through the surge protector before they arrive and also take my VCR out of the chain. They'll be starting from the wire that comes through the wall plugging straight into my TV's antenna jack. I have 2-way and 3-way splitters from Radio Shack labelled something like "1.6GHz" so they can use those or their own to arrange it however they think best. That's the best I can do, I'll just have to be patient even if it takes another visit or two to get it all working well.

Do any of the Columbia TWC subscribers have Roy Rushing's phone number handy? I left it on my notepad at work today. I have "digital cable" but need to call him to get a HDTV box.

Kir,

Wach was broadcasting back in January on 48.2. I have no idea if this is still correct. It was a strong signal like the rest. There was a Wach engineer that was posting awhile back,but he hasn't been heard from lately. Hope this helps.

I got in touch with Roy. He's coming Monday to switch the boxes for me.

In the mean while, the analog channels look much better once they removed the trap on the pole that they use to implement the "broadcast tier". Either it wasn't working right or it was introducing a lot of loss into the line. The higher-numbered channels (say 40 and up) aren't that great but things like WACH on channel 6 are very good quality now.

Brent -

Did you say that Roy is coming over to install a HD3200 reciever??? I thought TWC was giving our HD3100 recievers. Did you mistype this or are they offering new recievers now? What are the benefits to this new reciever???

Thanks

I spoke briefly to him a few days ago when I set up the installation. He said the regular contractor that did the install would just have a model 2100 digital STB and that afterward Roy would bring me a "3200HD" and set it up. For all I know, that may have been a slip of the tongue and he meant "3100HD" and I didn't follow up on it. I guess I'll be able to tell you more on Monday...

SA3100HD is the box used exclusively by TWC in Columbia for their HD carriage. The 2100 is like you said is their digital stb. They also have a NTSC SA8000pvr hard drive stb for those with time and patience.

Brent -

Hopefully he meant HD4200 that's a newer receiver that's supposed to have better aspect ratio control than the current one TWC is using.

I doubt it is the SA4200HD. Cablevision up north is I think the first to use them. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see TWC switching anytime soon,due to the cost. This is their second HD box in less than two years. I for one hope for the SA8000HD pvr. This would be very cool! Also if you TWC guys have extra time e-mail WIS about their lack of carriage on TWC. Here is the link:

http://www.wistv.com/Global/category.asp?C=2467&nav=1zcG

OK, it looks like WACH was really having some problems, not me :)

Final results:
CBS - 93%
ABC, PBS, NBC - all 100%
FOX - 93%

A month of trying, lots of money spent, but the results are great!
Thank you everyone for your support and advices.
My special gratitude goes to Barry C. - if you ever see this post - thank you! for spending pretty much every weekend for a month helping me with the antenna!

Kirill

Does anyone have any info on WACH? I was hoping to see SOME of the race today.

We (WLTX-DT) will be testing the three digital channels for the rest of the week starting today at noon. Please post any problems you might see. Thanks in advance for your help.
Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX

Dan,

Can you explain further what you are doing? Is WLTX planning to further reduce the bitrate used for HD? Since I am one of your cable users I have no way to see your test signals. Also; your HDTV signals last night were essentially unwatchable via TWC last night (choppy audio). Presume that was a TWC problem (again).

Bruce

We are planning on airing up to three different basketball games at a time. The bit rate of the HD has been reduced by 4Meg to make room for the new SD channel. I watched the HD off and on last night ota and noticed no problems. During our test today, I noticed the radar updating in segments. I presume that TWC had it setup that way to reserve more data for the HD channel. When it is all tested, you should see the three games on 810,811 and 812 on TWC and 19-1, 19-2, and 19-3 OTA. I really do recommend putting up an antenna to use as a reference signal when reporting problems.
Dan

The bit rate of the HD has been reduced by 4Meg to make room for the new SD channel
:(

Well, I now have HDTV via cable. Roy just came by and swapped in my 3100HD box. For the moment, HBO and Showtime are turned on until they get around to turning them off since I don't subscribe. Cast Away looks and sounds (DD5.1) very nice and for what it's worth the soap opera on WLTX is visually stunning (can't say as much about the content, though).

It's going to be tempting to turn on the Showtime subscription for a month just to play around with. Of course I did that with Dish Network and it took me a year to get around to turning it off. Right now the channel 811 is some sort of syndicated programming rather than radar, I assume that's what Dan is referring to although there's nothing on 812.

The bit rate of the HD has been reduced by 4Meg to make room for the new SD channe

I'm sure this is the way of the future in all media. Satellite looked great at first but they gradually turned up the compression until it looks terrible at times. When the technology makes available a tradeoff between "more stuff" and "higher-quality stuff", the media providers aren't likely to set the compromise point where people like AVS subscribers would like. The "more stuff" means reaching "more viewers" and "more advertisers" whereas the market for high-quality is much more diffuse and harder to register on the bottom line.

Dan,

Thanks for the update.

Regarding TWC; I figured it was a TWC problem but due to feeling lousy last night I deigned to call them then (and cannot get through today). But your soap was on at 12:30 and the audio appeard to be okay then. I guess TWC reset their box this morning. I think someone that works at TWC in the higher echelons needs to get a HDTV and actually watch the stuff they send out.

And your right regarding having an ATSC receiver setup but unfortunately that is a rather costly approach and one that gets away from ease of use that other family members expect (requires switcher units for video and audio).

Regarding bitrate management, I wonder if your HD won't suffer. FWIW, I feel WRLK-DT's HD suffers significantly by having two SD services. Last I heard their HD bitrate was about 12.6mbs but that might have increased some as Hap got his encoder tweaked last year. Check out the aerial shots (Crete, Italy) and or the footgall game... lots of motion artifacts.

Will definitely check it out your three service arrangement if/when we get see it on TWC here.

Bruce

Originally posted by Dan'sHiPix
I really do recommend putting up an antenna to use as a reference signal when reporting problems.
Dan

Amen. So do we.

Originally posted by Brent Hutto
Satellite looked great at first but they gradually turned up the compression until it looks terrible at times..

used to be when we saw video that looked like that, we thought the heads
in the tape machine had gone bad, now it's normal..

We are not planning on leaving WLTX-DT in three channel mode. Only for special events like the NCAA tourney. Our thoughts were people would like to see specific games during the tourney, so we will give them the most chioces we can. After the tourney is over, we will go back to 19-1 and 19-2.
Dan

Dan,

Hopefully, you'll take all of our comments in this forum as "feedback" rather than "complaints". For my part, I'm somewhat surprised (favorably, that is) at how the local HDTV rollout is progressing and it's a treat to have some of the finer members of Columbia-area broadcast geekdom here exchanging information with local representitives of the home-theater-geek community.

Originally posted by Dan'sHiPix
We are planning on airing up to three different basketball games at a time. The bit rate of the HD has been reduced by 4Meg to make room for the new SD channel. I watched the HD off and on last night ota and noticed no problems. During our test today, I noticed the radar updating in segments. I presume that TWC had it setup that way to reserve more data for the HD channel. When it is all tested, you should see the three games on 810,811 and 812 on TWC and 19-1, 19-2, and 19-3 OTA. I really do recommend putting up an antenna to use as a reference signal when reporting problems.
Dan

And spend $419.00 to receive it with that antenna.

When I got home from work, WLTX-DT and its radar channel were off the air for some reason. I surfed over to HBO-HDTV and they were playing Cast Away in real widescreen, real HD with real DD5.1 sound. I just happen to have the DVD of that on the shelf so I caught the DVD up to the HBO feed and watched 45 minutes of the movie switching back and forth.

The HDTV picture was probably more detailed than the 480p picture from my DVD player. I say probably because there's a difference in black level between the 3100HD and my RP82. It must be that the 3100HD is set up to output black at 7.5 IRE instead of 0 IRE. So I had to also toggle back and forth between calibration memories on my TV.

However, with details in the background of a scene that are in focus by the movie camera, there's more information in the 1080i image. I think I may have seen some interlacing artifacts on the horizon of some ocean shots in HDTV that weren't there on the 480p source but it was at the limit of visibility.

On another note, the pictures on that demo loop that ETV is running are fabulous. There's a shot of fireworks that's better than anything I've ever seen on a screen before. Amazing.

I went ahead and did a subscription to HBO and Showtime. It's only $5.00 each per month as part of that Dish tradein program. What the heck...

Brent,

Wltx-DT is only on part-time. Wolo-DT is on 24/7. Wltx usually comes on at 7 and stays on throughout the evening to 11:30. They are also on from 1:00-2:00 for The Young and The Restless. On the weekends they are on whenever there is a CBS network feed. Don't forget your antenna if TWC messes up CBS and ABC tonight.(-:

Edit:repeat season on CBS, I'll try another channel! What ever happened to the WACH engineer that posted twice awhile back? I also received a formed response from WIS about TWC carriage of their digital station.

Any news on WIS getting on TWC yet? I emailed them complaining about it. Any news is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Hi Dan,

I live over in Lexington and I am watching your channel with a 8 foot wide 1280x720 DLP FP system.

The WLTX HD normally looks terrific but today I had a friend over at lunch and it looked bad. Lots of pixeling on motion and transition scenes. I'll keep checking and check it at night if you would like. Also, if you would like to see it here let me know, and drop me an e-mail or PM; you can see my HT in my WWW link above.

Is there a particular time or day I should re-check??? I was getting a very strong signal so that was not the problem. Sorry to complain, just wanted to provide some feedback for you.


Now regarding PBS HD. It also pixelates on motion and transition scenes and the white level is wwwaaaayyy too high. Who can we e-mail about this, does anyone know?? Am I the only one seeing the PBS HD problems??

Take care gang,

-- Cain

Hi Dan,
When you were setting up the division on WLTX 17-1 ran the CBS "It's All Here" promo in HDTV was playing. What was your video source. Do you have a (Tape,Disc,Memory) playback system.

Just Curious

Now regarding PBS HD. It also pixelates on motion and transition scenes and the white level is wwwaaaayyy too high. Who can we e-mail about this, does anyone know?? Am I the only one seeing the PBS HD problems??
Since yesterday was the first time I've ever had HDTV I can't offer an informed opinion but during the early evening when we got home from work the pixellation during transitions on the PBS demo were easily noticable on our 36XBR800 direct-view. The quality of the actual images were often stunning which made the transition artifacts even more jarring.

Don'r know about white level but there was defintely a difference between the WLTX and PBS pictures in terms of their overall brightness palette, with WLTX the darker of the two. I thought the evening sitcoms were very movie-like whereas most of the PBS stuff was punchier.

The quality of the actual images were often stunning which made the transition artifacts even more jarring.

Exactly !!!!!

-- Cain

This is an email I received from WIS today concerning HDTV on TWC:



"We are in discussions with Time Warner about carrying our digital signal. I'd suggest you make your feelings known to them as well. We would like to be carried by the cable company, and I expect we will reach an agreement with them, but I cannot predict when that will happen. We will publicize the change when it takes place. Thanks for your interest.

Barry Ahrendt
Director of Audience Development
WIS Television
Columbia, SC
803-758-1225 office
803-598-6414 pager
803-758-1146 fax
bahrendt@wistv.com "


Hopefully this will come sooner than later.

It is my understanding received basically the same carriage agreement as the other stations and that WIS's lawyers were going through the agreement in part to make sure they were not giving the farm away (rights wise). I also suspect there may be monetary issues at hand. Be that as it may be, given we are not through the historical 3 month period yet, I suspect the train has not yet derailed. I still expect WIS-DT to be on TWC come April (end of most likely). Anything sooner of course would be appreciated.

Bruce

Thanks for the info Bruce!

"When you were setting up the division on WLTX 17-1 ran the CBS "It's All Here" promo in HDTV was playing. What was your video source. Do you have a (Tape,Disc,Memory) playback system. "


I have a D5 HD tape deck which lets me record and playback HD material.
Dan

Tentative Schedule for Games if the NCAA tourney starts as scheduled.
Thursday, March 20

WLTX-TV Channel 19-analog (cable channel 9)
12:25pm: California/North Carolina St.
2:50 pm: Oklahoma/South Carolina St.
7:10 pm: Illinois/Western Kentucky
9:45 pm: Duke/Colorado State

WLTX-DT Channel 19-1 - digital (cable channel 810)-Oklahoma City
12:25pm: California/North Carolina St.
2:50pm: Oklahoma/South Carolina St.
7:10pm: Memphis/Arizona State
9:30pm: Kansas/Utah State


WLTX-DT Channel 19-2 - digital (cable channel 811)-Indianapolis
12:20pm: Marquette/Holy Cross
2:40pm: Missouri/Southern Illinois
7:10 pm: Illinois/Western Kentucky
9:30pm: Notre Dame/Wisconsin-Milwaukee


WLTX-DT Channel 19-3 - digital (cable channel 812)-Salt Lake City
12:40pm: Cincinnati/Gonzaga
3:00pm: Arizona/Vermont
7:20pm: Creighton/Central Michigan
9:45 pm: Duke/Colorado State

Friday, March 21

WLTX-TV Channel 19-analog (cable channel 9)
12:30pm: Kentucky/IUPUI
2:45pm: Wake Forest/East Tennessee State
7:20pm: Louisville/Austin Peay
9:45pm: Maryland/UNC-Wilmington


WLTX-DT Channel 19-1 - digital (cable channel 810)-Birmingham (HDTV)
12:30pm: Texas/UNC-Ashville or Texas Southern
2:50pm: LSU/Purdue
7:20pm: Louisville/Austin Peay
9:40pm: Mississippi State/Butler


WLTX-DT Channel 19-2 - digital (cable channel 811)
12:30pm: Kentucky/IUPUI
2:45pm: Wake Forest/East Tennessee State
7:10pm: Pittsburgh/Wagner
9:45pm: Maryland/UNC-Wilmington


WLTX-DT Channel 19-3 - digital (cable channel 812)
12:25pm: St. Joseph’s/Auburn
2:50pm: Oregon/Utah
7:10pm: Michigan State/Colorado
9:30pm: Indiana/Alabama
Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX

Dan,

I realize this is still quite a ways in the future but do you happen to know yet if WLTX-DT will be broadcasting the Thursday and Friday rounds of The Masters? Now that I have HDTV via TWC I'm looking foward to at least the weekend coverage but if I can also get HD weekdays I'd consider it a huge bonus.

"I realize this is still quite a ways in the future but do you happen to know yet if WLTX-DT will be broadcasting the Thursday and Friday rounds of The Masters? Now that I have HDTV via TWC I'm looking foward to at least the weekend coverage but if I can also get HD weekdays I'd consider it a huge bonus."

As it stands now, yes we will broadcast the thursday and Friday HDTV coverage from CBS.
What all that entails, I don't know at this point.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX

Dan,
I am so glad you are participating in this forum! Thanks for the info I can't wait to see the Masters this year! Between you and Bob Davis from WOLO we are very fortunate to have so much local network input. Where is someone from Fox and WIS?

Not that anyone cares by this point but I think my spamming this topic with "what should I do?" requests has run its course now. I just called up Dish Network and had them turn off the satellite service. In the few days we've had TWC service, not only has the HDTV been great but we've found that the analog cable channels are actually more watchable than the overcompressed Dish stuff, at least when run through the "DRC" on our Sony 36XBR800.

All we are really giving up is the Enterprise feed on WWOR and WSBK. Now we'll have to watch the last eight episodes of the season on crummy WQHB (noisy, grainy, dark picture and distorted non-ProLogic sound) but it wasn't worth continuing $30/month worth of Dish Network just for an hour a week.

So the upshot is that we've lowered our total cost from $68/month (Dish plus broadcast tier TWC) to $54/month (at least for the first twelve months). We gained HDTV, including HBO and Showtime, and lost WWOR/WSBK once a week. That would be a great deal even at the same price. A year from now I guess we'll either drop HBO and Showtime or else start paying $80/month but that a long way off.

Not that any of this has to do with local HDTV reception but I do appreciate the help that's been offered here over the past few weeks.

I know everyone is looking for NCAA basketball!!!!!! CBS made a deal with ESPN to cary the games so WLTX cannot Multicast them on DTV. However, This is on a game by game basis. If there is no war coverage on WLTX(19), then we will have the basketball on WLTX-DT. CBS is obligated to let the game on ESPN end before we can pick up coverage. As it stand right now, if CBS is not in war coverage, we will have the 3:00 games on our air.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX

I know everyone is looking for NCAA basketball!!!!!!
Call me crazy, but I'm not... I would prefer 1 (one) high-quality HD channel to 3 multicast channels, but I do understand that 3 channels generate more revenue from advertizing.
Sad facts of life...

Kirill

We are on the air!!!!!!
Three basketball games for all of you sports fans.
Tomorrow we will have HD coverage of the NCAA no matter what CBS' war coverage is.
Dan

Great to have 3 games to flip through. DT-1 looks much better than 2 and 3, but they can made to fit the screen. Tomorrow will interesting as to the degradation of the HD channel. I hope it looks better than what has been tested this week (interlace and blurring). Even though I am concerned about the broadcast, it will be nice to switch off to another game if the HD gets out of hand. Thanks to Dan for keeping us up to date.


PS:Sneak us a couple of extra mega bytes tomorrow night on the hd channel .

Follow up observation on WLTX digital subchannels:

The regular analog CH.19 ota and TWC ch.9 image clarity during the games last night were superior to the extra digital channels. The war updates looked fine, but the fast action of the games really suffered. Watching these games last night remind me of when I had Dish Network and tried to watch a games on ESPN on the large widescreen. I would usually turn off the widecreen and watch on my 27" bedroom set.(which was not a option due to that set being hooked up to analog cable.)

Pending any magical breakthroughs in MPEG compression, I think whether it's Dish, DirecTV or an HDTV subchannel off the air there's just so much you can do with 3-4 MBPS of bandwidth to encode something like a basketball game. I had noticed the same thing kevinivey mentions when I briefly checked in on the WLTX-DT channels last night. The main channel didn't suffer too much but the subchannels were not good quality.

Checking the games a couple of times for PQ usijng TWC and a SA3100HD, it seemed to me that:

The HD channel (810) was poorly upconverted, similar to watching a standard 4:3 cable program over the DTV output. The images were dark and grainy. The two subchannels (811, 812) watched via SD inputs (not the HD input) had PQ slightly better than the HD service though definitely plagued with motion artifacts. The analog game (Ch 9) PQ actually was a bit better than any of the DTV presentations. Quality of these productions no doubt was part of the visible difference (lighting; cameras, techniques) and could change/improve over time. I also wonder if things would not be better overall if three 3SD channels were used instead of 1HD and 2SD.

Bruce

"I also wonder if things would not be better overall if three 3SD channels were used instead of 1HD and 2SD. "

Unfortunately, the way the encoder works, you cannot do three SD channels or I would have opted to do that last night. The system must do 1 HD and 2 SD if I am airing three games. I watched the pictures on my F38310 at home last night and they were pretty good ota. There were some artifacts in very fast motion. However, sitting across my living room in my normal viewing position, they were hardly noticeable. If i got within 4 feet of my set, they were much more noticeable. They also got worse if you stretched the pics out to fill the screen. I stayed in the 4x3 mode and enjoyed all of the games.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV

This is the poorest HD I have ever seen. If this was normal I would have returned my set. We better enjoy the single HD channel we have now, because the future does not look bright. Multiblah does not work!

"This is the poorest HD I have ever seen. If this was normal I would have returned my set. We better enjoy the single HD channel we have now, because the future does not look bright. Multiblah does not work!"

The object of the multicast is to give the Columbia viewers the most options and let avid fans possibly see their team. I know the HD suffers from the multicast. However, given the choice between seeing my team play or not seeing them play, I would choose to be able to watch even with the artifacts.

Dan
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV

It is "free" and OTA.. IMHO, considering that, you make an excellent point
Dan. Maybe some would prefer to pay DirecTv for the "poorest" video?
Besides, If I'm not mistaken, this a first for Columbia, one that isn't being done here in Charlotte?

Dan,
Thanks for the update. I did not know you could not pass on a HD service with your encoder and do 3 SD services.

Bruce

Bob,
For "poorest" video available via TWCSC, the winner of that dubious achiement has to be WQHB Ch 63 (UPN). Yuck! If there were to get a homemade VHS tape of "Enterprise" and use that as their broadcast source it would be an improvement over whatever they generally use now.

Bruce

yea, I hear you. We are a bit spoiled here.

Poorest "HD" was implied, not poorest video and it is still the worst "HD" I've seen on my set in the 17 months I have had it. Multichannel for "free" ota will probably be the future. I will gladly pay a premium price for premium content. As I do for Sho and HBO and would for more if it was available. Dan, I thought that you wanted feedback, I'm sorry if this seems harsh. I consider CBS to have the best HD content by far, it just a shame that it has been destroyed by WLTX's multicasting. As far as getting your favorite team uninterrupted due to more channels, that really doesn't happen because CBS jumps all around showing the other games. Slam me if you wish, I've got thick skin!

As far as multcasting goes my first choice would be one HD channel at its full-bandwidth best quality showing something that I want to watch. Obviously, that's not true 24x7.

If there's nothing being shown that I want to watch, it matters not whether they use some bandwidth for a multicast.

If there is something I want to watch, I'd rather see multicasting than preemption. To me, that is the true value of Dan's experiment with the basketball games. If I were a fan of some HD afternoon soap opera and they could multicast the basketball instead of preempting my favorite show, I'd gladly make the tradeoff.

The images we are seeing appear similar to those experienced by other CBS affiliates who are also multicasting the NCAA games (see the NCAA thread over in Programming). Multicasting indeed can be used to make available a program that otherwise would not have been available. SCETV/WRLK had similar problems well over a year ago with mandatory programming (classes) that interferred with PBS-HD programs. Last spring a new encoder that enabled multicasting alleviated that problem. Here we seeing multicasting being used to solved a different problem... with different results perhaps.

Bruce

We just watched our first HDTV movie since having the TWC service installed a week ago, it was The Others on HBO. Not a bad movie, although not exactly our cup of tea. The 1080i image was amazingly good, though. This is the sort of film that really challenges the DVD format with mostly dark interiors, candlelight and some fog scenes. It would be interesting to rent the DVD in a few days and see if the quality would equal that of HBO's HDTV feed.

I believe the OAR for this movie was 1.85:1 so the full-frame 16:9 image we were seeing is pretty much the whole thing. I thought there was a time or two where I saw some kind of mometary "catch" in the image that could have been pan&scan shudder. But it must have been something else since this movie wouldn't have been panned and scanned very much, if at all.

The DD5.1 soundtrack was very effective, too. A couple of things really snuck up on us from the rear surrounds.

For the $5/month we're paying right now for HBO (plus another $5/month for Showtime) it's worth it even if we only catch one movie a month on at a time we can watch. When the discounted price ends I suspect we'll miss having those two HDTV channels.

Boy, is my face red. Not really, but I just checked online and The Others tonights wasn't on HBO it was Showtime. And it was upconverted. Boy, they have some nice upconversion hardware I guess because that was a fine, fine transfer. And, being on Showtime, it was in its original 1.85:1 aspect ratio.

How many things could I get wrong in one message? I decided not to edit my original post in the spirit of owning up to ones mistakes. Wouldn't want to be sent to Limbo or anything like that...

Originally posted by Brent Hutto
Boy, is my face red. Not really, but I just checked online and The Others tonights wasn't on HBO it was Showtime. And it was upconverted. Boy, they have some nice upconversion hardware I guess because that was a fine, fine transfer. And, being on Showtime, it was in its original 1.85:1 aspect ratio.

How many things could I get wrong in one message? I decided not to edit my original post in the spirit of owning up to ones mistakes. Wouldn't want to be sent to Limbo or anything like that...
Pales comparing to me praising FOX for their HD quality :D

Kirill

"Slam me if you wish, I've got thick skin"
You are right. I do want your feedback and I take it as that. Not bashing.



"SCETV/WRLK had similar problems well over a year ago with mandatory programming (classes) that interferred with PBS-HD programs. Last spring a new encoder that enabled multicasting alleviated that problem. Here we seeing multicasting being used to solved a different problem... with different results perhaps."

We have the same encoder which PBS uses. It is a Harris Flexicoder. I don't know which version of software Hap has over there though.

As the games get fewer, I will go back to 2 channels. One HD and one SD.
That will be our normal configuration.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV

"As the games get fewer, I will go back to 2 channels. One HD and one SD.
That will be our normal configuration"

Thank you!

I live in Chapin and just put up a VU 190 Radio Shack antenna (strongest they had). I'm picking up Channel 25 DT at 100% and 19 DT at 77%. Channel 10 is terrible though, sound is good but bad picture that is unwatchable. Channel 57 isn't too good either. I'm using a Samsung 160 receiver. I'm looking for any suggestions or help from some of you that may have already been through this problem. Thanks for any info you can give me.


Trip

tritchie,

Some quesions If I may: Are you trying to pick up the analog signals or digital?
WIS =10, WIS-DT= 41 WOLO=25, WOLO-DT=8
WLTX=19, WLTX-DT=17 WRLK=35, WRLK-DT=32,
WACH=57, WACH-DT=48

- When you say unwatchable, what are the artifacts you are seeing?
- Where is your antenna; attic or roof? If the latter, how high is your antenna?
- Have you tried changing the height of the antenna yet?
- Are there any hills/structures/trees blocking the view towards NE Columbia?
- Do you have a rotator?
- Do you have a preamp mounted on the mast?

I gather you are about 32 miles or so from the towers (zip 29036 anyway) so you should not be "too far away." If you are suffering severe multipath (ghosting on analog signals; no signal lock or frequent breakups on digital), you may need to move your antnna position by going laterally or vertically. Higher is usually better. Also a rotor may allow you to tweak the antenna pointing (rough azimuth from Chapin only varies from 90 to 108 degrees; Augusta is about 57miles/210 degrees). A preamp may help bring in weak signals.

Bruce

I'm trying to get all the channels. I'm not picking up WIS-DT at all. On WIS 10 analog, I think the ghosting term would be correct to use. I'm picking up WLTX as 19-1, not 17, and WOLO 25-1, not 8, WACH 57-1, not 48. Is this unusual or am I missing something? My antenna is on the roof, probably about 25 feet off the ground, there is not any obstructions in the way (it actually points out over the water back torwards Cola). I don't have a rotator (I'm assuming that is something that allows you to turn the antenna from a control of some sort?) or a preamp? I've thought about a preamp but wanted to make sure there's not an easier fix first. I'm probably only about 20 miles from downtown by way of a crows flight. Any good suggestions to try. I really appreciate your help!

Trip

Thank you WOLO for the excellent broadcast!
I only noticed 2 brief (less then 1/2 sec) sound interruptions at the beginning of the ceremony.
Excellent PQ, very nice camera work!

PS: Why did they switch to SD at midnight while Oscar's was still on? Oh well, only the last few minutes :)

Thank you again!
Kirill

tritchie,

Okay. Your channel indication is fine. I was just checking to see if your problems were with the digital stations or the digital ones. Your ATSC receiver usually will remap the digital channel number to the analog one (41 to 10-1, 8 to 25-1, etc). That is a function of what is known as PSIP (Program and System Information Protocol) which is included in the broadcast stream. Sometimes PSIP itself can cause problems but that does not appear to the the case here. What is the signal like for the various analog channels (using the set's tuner or the Sammy's?).

As I understand it, if your pointing your antenna at NE Cola at your distance and without major obstructions (trees/hills), then I would have to guess maybe the lake is causing multipath problems. If so, best I can suggest is for you to first try moving your antenna vertically up or down several inches/feet. Height usually is your friend; another pole section might be needed.

If you have a tilt function; you might try tilting the front up/down a few degrees to see if that helps too. A rotator/rotor allows one to finesse the azimuth; and may or may not be necessary. You need to first manually tweak the pointing azimuth to see if there is one position that works for all or if you need a rotor. If you are getting week signals, a preamp (located on the mast close to the antenna itself) might be in order and/or perhaps a better antenna (perhaps one more directional). Last, I would double check the cable, all connections; the grounding block, and even the balun.

Keep us posted on how your troubleshooting goes.

Bruce

Originally posted by Kir
Thank you WOLO for the excellent broadcast!
PS: Why did they switch to SD at midnight while Oscar's was still on? Oh well, only the last few minutes :)


You are very Welcome.

As to going to SD, we had the HD enable timer set to switch off at midnight, based on info from ABC that it would end by midnight..

..

Very much enjoyed the HD broadcast of the AA here as well. Things went very well I thought. But I switched off right at midnight so did not see the network SD switchover myself.

"As to going to SD, we had the HD enable timer set to switch off at midnight, based on info from ABC that it would end by midnight.. "

Bob,
Can't your master control operators switch between SD and HD or do an over-ride of the timer?
All of our switching is done manually by our master control staff. We purchased the Harris Master Plus system. It uses a touch screen to allow the ops to switch between 2 HD, 1 SD input and an internal test pattern generator as well as key bugs. It works great. I can automate it using GPIs if needed.

Just curious......
Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV

Hey Dan-hope all is well with our friends over at WLTX.
Yes, they can, but with two stations, news and feeds are typically too busy chase the dtv "reliably".. That's why the timer enables a tally chase of the M2100, otherwise there would be a lot of HD switches either missed or late. There is an override on the timer for such purposes, this would not be a problem if ABC (really all networks) would feed a complete primetime
feed. We, and others, have asked them to provide a seamless primetime feed that has upconverted material if the program is not available in HD, then we would not have to do so much timer programming, and the tally chase would always work, without the need for a timer... that would also give the networks control over the upconversion of their non-hd program material. However, I do understand ABC's reasoning for not doing that,
which is primarily an internal cost accounting issue, not technical reasons.
It does seem intersting that ABC can feed upconverted commercials or the "test tape" during primetime and not upconverted programming....
FOX provides us a full-time 16x9 feed, so anytime we're on FOX network, the DTV tally chases the widescreen feed. Our MCOs' never have to worry about making sure the FOX 16x9 feed is switched properly..........

Cbs does provide an upconverted prime time for us. However, I will not take it unless I have to. It forces us to have bleck bars up on HD instead of the grey I use to try to prevent burn-in. None of our HD switching is timed it is all done manually. The ops have the touch panel right next to M.C. so all they have to do is hit two buttons at the same time. They are really good about switching. Sometimes I have to remind them, but not often.
Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV

Viewers here overwhelmingly and QUITE vocally protested the bars of any color, as most of us here have tried them, so we don't use them. Personally, I don't like them, but I would accept,as FOX calls them, "wings"
if they were graphic in nature and not static, similiar to what FOX does
on FOX News Sunday AM with 4x3 sources. However, that may be a problem with some program producers and or advertisers who may feel the
bars or wings artistically compromise the look of their material..
besides, If the network doesn't add grey bars as well, It's a moot point..

Hi guys,
As an ignorant ATSC viewer I would ask why a network or station cannot/will not use one of the other formats provided on Table 3 instead of sending out an upconverted 4:3 signal? Does everyone want upconverted 1080i that has to have side bars added to fill in the space? Why not blow off sending it out as upconverted HD over the HD channel and just send out a nice 4:3 version that is SD only? (and let users sets do the gray or stretch). Do your encoders not have that flexibility? What does Fox do?. Would doing that be prohibitive due to personnel (monitoring) costs?

I can see this might be a problem with cable (lots of channel holders maybe). Personally I would rather tune to Station x-1 or x-2 and watch an SD version of the image than a 4:3 image on a HD channel. As it is now I tune to the analog version. Last year when we sub'd to HBO I would for example switch to the standard HBO presentation of Six Feet Under rather than watch the upconverted version with black bars. (current season is HD). WRLK manages to do quite nicely with their occasional widescreen programs on a SD subchannel.

Bruce

Hi Bruce-
Easily said but in practice harder to do. HD encoders won't do SD, and vice versa. It can be done in other ways, but some STB's don't react to changes
very well in the transport stream, as many have found out. WRLK, as well
as WTVI does this sort of thing nightly. It does require management, as
well as software and hardware. Some encoders are more flexible than others with such changes as well.

Bob,

Thaks. I take it you are saying many of the DTV encoders in use now don't have the flexibily to do HD (or HD/SD) one hour and then just SD another. Nor can user's STBs necessarily easily adapt either (perhaps would require constant rescanning). And I take it your station's hardware setup is pretty much fixed and so not a problem either.

I was under the impression that the bitstream was 19.39 mbs wide and could be divided into one or more services (and null packets added as needed). Dan did however recently say they had to do one HD and 2 SD but could not do 3 SD services (question was about the CBS and the NCAA tournament). So I now take it that type of encoder behavior is pretty much industry standard.

Thanks! I have been wondering about this for awhile. I have never seen a good explanation here in these forums or elsewhere about what flexibility was actually practical/available.

Bruce

Well since we're on the subject of upconversion........
WLTX's encoder has the ability to do 1 HD and 2 SD channels at one time. To change configurations, you must go into software and manually realocate the 19 MB bandwidth the way you want. This is not something you want a master control operator doing at 11PM when you are going into a news cast. You can store the setups and recall the files. However, this is still too deep into the encoder than you want a novice to be. If it done incorrectly, you will not be on air. Something I think you all would say is not acceptable. Take the NCAA tournament we now have on air on WLTX. I spent hours up here this weekend switching transponders, virtual channels and updating the channel mapping for the multicast.

As of today, we are back to two channels on digital, 1 HD and 1SD. I hope you all enjoy the higher bitrates.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV

Thanks Dan,
Ah. The configuration process does appears to be rather complex (and less automated/foolproof that perhaps I would have thought). I do appreciate yours and Bob's feedback! And yes I agree with your conclusion! Better to be on with an upconvert than off due to a dufus mistake. Thanks. I shall check in tonight though I not know yet what portends (rerun wise and/or war coverage).

Bruce

Dan,
Will WLTX be multicasting with the HD games Friday evening and the HD games on Sunday?

WLTX-TV Channel 19-analog (cable channel 9)
7:27pm: Texas/Connecticut
9:40pm: Syracuse Auburn

WLTX-DT Channel 19-1 - digital (cable channel 810)
7:27pm: Texas/Connecticut – (HDTV)
9:57pm: Maryland/Michigan State – (HDTV)

WLTX-DT Channel 19-2 - digital (cable channel 811)
7:10pm: Oklahoma/Butler
9:57pm: Maryland/Michigan State

bdfox18doe
Bob: In reviewing your various responses for the past couple of months, I am prompted to ask about the practice by one of our Western Carolina DT stations. It sends its NTSC video over its DT with a black vertical bar between the side panels and the picture. This stable black verticle line concerns me with respect to burn-in. There has been no response from the station to suggestions that this be corrected. Is my thinking correct that this can be a problem?
jb

"Bob: In reviewing your various responses for the past couple of months, I am prompted to ask about the practice by one of our Western Carolina DT stations. It sends its NTSC video over its DT with a black vertical bar between the side panels and the picture. This stable black verticle line concerns me with respect to burn-in. There has been no response from the station to suggestions that this be corrected. Is my thinking correct that this can be a problem? "


Jerry,
We have the same situation here at WLTX in Columbia. It is not something the station is doing by choice if they are equiped with the Harris Flexicoder system. What you are actually seeing is the inactive part of the picture content. This area is used by television stations to send information for your analog sets such as closed captioning and other data. I talked to Harris about the issue and to date there is no resolution. The Flexicoder does not discriminate active from inactive content. It treats them as one source and upconverts the entire image. As far as burn-in goes. We have been running that configuration here in Columbia for almost a year now and I haven't had any issues on my set. It is a picture tube 16x9 model though. As far as I know there are no issues out there with the projection models as well. It greatly depend on how much 4x3 viewing you are doing on your set.
I hope this helps. Bob, chime in if I am incorrect about this situation.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV

Jerry,Dan gives a good explanation above in simple layman's terms.
This is called blanking, a product of NTSC video. It can be "covered" up in the upconversion process, if the Upconvertor allows it. Not all do, ours here
can. BUT, if we were running grey bars as Dan does, we'd have to make the bars a little wider to ensure you'd never see the blanking, and in the process cover up a bit of the active picture most of the time. BooHiss!
I agree with Dan that it probably won't cause a burn in problem, I tend to believe that unless you're running a plasma set or tube projector, that the
concern over burn in is excessive. I have a 35" 4x3 set here at home, and watch a lot of 16x9 material, and have had no problems with burn in.
Despite what most members here think, DTv is still in the early stages,
and we all, especially most networks, are still figuring out how to do some
of this stuff. I loaded beta software this week, for the WOLO & WCCB PSIP generators, the Dolby E decoders, program multiplexors, and the WOLO
TV-25 ASI decoders.. Point being is this stuff is still pretty much a science project that's about to become reality..unlike analog Tv which has had decades to be perfected, if that's what you'd call it..

Dan and Bob:
Thanks you very much for taking time to explain the side-bars. Not all areas have engineers who care enough to help the industry through its growing pains.
jb

The engineers at the stations seem to be even more excited with the new technology then we are - imagine something new to play with after "decades" of polishing the old stuff :D

Kirill

Information from another forum:
Most OTA stations use the horribly poor Lucent/Harris encoder (because it's bundled with the RF equipment).

Makes me wonder...

Kirill

Kirill,
I wonder what they mean by "horribly poor"? As I recall at least two of our local stations currently use Harris FlexiCoder™ units and I am not sure what we are missing out with them using that unit. (we have heard here about the blanking situation; what else is problematic?). Would definitely be interesting to learn more on the subject.

Bruce

ps: I did find this link (http://www.broadcast.harris.com/product_portfolio/prod_media/Flexicoder%20Harris%20manual.pdf) that has the Flexicoder manual though I have not gone through it. (and given it is directed to engineers it may be of little use to most of us).

Kirill-
Yes, it is exciting for some of us engineers. Viewers PAY to play with DTv, we get PAID to play with DTv..

As to the "horribly poor" Flexicoder. There's nothing wrong with the Harris/Lucent Flexicoder..That's what you're watching on WOLO-DT,
as well as WLTX and WRLK..Unless the opinion is from an experienced
broadcast engineer, I wouldn't accept it as credible. While I prefer Harmonic, the Lucent is far friendlier to configure, and there are somewhat worse encoders out there..

Bruce, I haven't forgotten you, got called out of town to WKFT for some
transmitter work..hang tight!

WOLO-HD doesn't have sound right now. I happened to tune across it around 9:30PM and my receiver thinks it's getting Dolby Digital 5.1 but there's just silence. I checked again at 9:45PM and it's still silent. All my other HD channels (via TWC) are fine.

This is the detailed information I got (thank you Ron):

The Lucent/Harris encoder is just not state of the art.
It's actually 6 (for 1080i) SD encoders glued together. The
problem is that the 6 encoders run pretty much independently
and don't know what the others are doing. This is manifested
in a couple of ways. First, there's no motion vector
overlap between segments. That is, motion vectors cannot
cross over segment boundaries, so the blocks near the
edges of segments can be poorly estimated. Second, I-frame
insertion on scene change detection is on a segment basis
and seems overly sensitive. A whole segment in a P-frame
will get coded with intra blocks and waste a ton of bits
for no apparent reason. Finally, there's just no way that
this encoder can do inverse telecine.

If your director of engineering friend is considering an
MPEG-2 encoder upgrade, I would suggest the Divicom (now
Harmonic) MV400. See:

http://www.harmonicinc.com/stageone/files/harmonic/collateral/MV400%5F051002s%2Epdf

Also, the Tandberg HD encoder is based on the same silicon
as the Divicom/Harmonic.



Hope it sheds more light,
Kirill

Awesome job, WlTX and CBS. The Maryland v. Michigan State game was great. Great picture and a even greater finish. The single extra game was not really a factor in the overall image of the HD channel. 1080i image was awesome tonight and this morning! (PS. Dan, glad you don't use the auto off feature).

Originally posted by Brent Hutto
WOLO-HD doesn't have sound right now. I happened to tune across it around 9:30PM and my receiver thinks it's getting Dolby Digital 5.1 but there's just silence. I checked again at 9:45PM and it's still silent. All my other HD channels (via TWC) are fine.

Hi Brent,
We'll check this, my hunch is that the program did not have 5.1 audio, and thus our friends at ABC didn't feed anything on the 5.1 channel, which is what we use. If I'm correct, 8 Rules was a repeat that was out of it's
normal slot, which would probably be the problem, they didn't feed 5.1.
Of course, there could be a broke here as well.

Originally posted by Kir
This is the detailed information I got (thank you Ron):
Hope it sheds more light,
Kirill

Everyone has their opinion...
We have a total of 6 encoders here, including the Harmonic Mv400's.
And, yes they are better,as we have compared them on-air side by side. But the Lucent isn't "horrible" based on our usage,(and watching 3 of them OTA here in Charlotte), if it were, they wouldn't be so many out
there.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Hi Brent,
We'll check this, my hunch is that the program did not have 5.1 audio, and thus our friends at ABC didn't feed anything on the 5.1 channel, which is what we use. If I'm correct, 8 Rules was a repeat that was out of it's
normal slot, which would probably be the problem, they didn't feed 5.1.
Of course, there could be a broke here as well.

Was it ok on Regular Joe?

Bob,

I flipped by during a commercial break during the CBS game and it was indeed Regular Joe that had no sound.

Originally posted by kevinivey
Bob,

I flipped by during a commercial break during the CBS game and it was indeed Regular Joe that had no sound.

Ok, did 8 Simple Rules have audio, can anyone confirm either way?
Brent?

Thanks!

To All. I am looking for comments on multipath/pixelizaton. Please see my March 29 message on: AVS Forum > HDTV > Local HDTV Info and Reception > Western Carolinas HDTV
jb

Sorry, I've been away from the computer. I only happened to check during Regular Joe, that's when it was silent. (I almost called it Dear John, wasn't that the last show Judd Hirsch was on?)

Whats wrong with WOLO-DT today got normal signal strength,but no pic or sound ?

WOLO has serious PSIP Problems. On my Samsung T150 it makes the box flop wildly from 8 to 25-1 to 25-2 and on my friend Samsung t165 and JVC HD Recorder the channel want pass through the firewire,When sending 25-1 to the recorder he gets part of the map on 25-2 and a flickering loop of 25-1 on the right side of the screen. Another friend's RCA DTC 100 dropout every few seconds if he put his "Out Of Air Guide" option back on. It did these things before, it got better, then it started back again. Sure wish what ever was working before Friday was put back.

We installed a software patch Monday that was supposed to prevent
this problem, caused by a corrupt PSIP Table that recurs on Saturday
Afternoons late. I'll drop by and correct it later today, and tomorrow make
a software guys day when I tell him to try again...

Is anybody having serious drop on signals from WACH-DT Today?

Oscar

Oscar,
Have had a viewer in Columbia confirm WACH is dropping out.

Bob,

Thanks for your quick reply.
Oscar

No ABC-HD on WOLO Tonite due to an audio problem, We'll get it fixed as
soon as we can.

I tuned in to the CBS HD basketball game today OTA channel 17-1 and it was horrible.

Static images were fine but motion was very badly pixelating. I stopped watching because it was so bad.

Anyone else watch this ?? Or try to?? Did it get better later in the broadcast ??

-- Cain

Originally posted by Cain
I tuned in to the CBS HD basketball game today OTA channel 17-1 and it was horrible.

Static images were fine but motion was very badly pixelating. I stopped watching because it was so bad.

Anyone else watch this ?? Or try to?? Did it get better later in the broadcast ??

-- Cain

Cain,

I watched the entire game on Sunday. It was by far the best CBS HD basketball broadcast I have ever seen. No dropouts, no pixelation , and very little motion artifacts as compared to Friday's dual broadcast. I do not receive WLTX-DT ota, but via TWC. Great Job, CBS and WLTX. I can't hardly wait till next weekend.

Starting Today March 31, WLTX will be broadcasting on Digital (RF ch. 17, 19-1 & 19-2 PSIP) from 12PM - 12:35 AM M-F and 12PM-12AM Sat-Sun.

When CBS is not providing a truse HD feed, WLTX will be upconverting its analog signal to digital for broadcast on digital.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV; WLTX-DT

Bob,
When WOLO's PSIP goes crazy, what is the easiest way to let you know? I was unable to get your station for a few days. I get a 90% signal strength but no picture. Fortunately, I have two antenna inputs on my set. I run one with PSIP enabled and the other with PSIP disabled. Thats how I knew you were on the air with a picture and not just a carrier. It also affects WOLO analog since you have mapped your PSIP to ch 25 as well. Give me a call at 803 776-3600.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV; WLTX-DT

Thanks Dan,
Good talking with you today.

Everyone has their opinion...
While I agree 100%, that guy designs MPEG2 encoders for living. Also, as you can see from what he said, he has quite a few valid points.
We have a total of 6 encoders here, including the Harmonic Mv400's.
And, yes they are better,as we have compared them on-air side by side.

So why don't you use them if they are indeed better? I would understand if you had nothing else...
But the Lucent isn't "horrible"...if it were, they wouldn't be so many out there
Lots of people use BOSE speakers, but they are still horrible :)
On a more serious note, that was already answered - because "Lucend comes bundled with RF equipment".

Again, nothing personal, Bob, I'm just trying to understand.

Thank you,
Kirill

"So why don't you use them if they are indeed better? I would understand if you had nothing else... "

Remember every penny we spend on digital television, the broadcasters make ZERO, nothing. There is no revenue stream for digital tv yet. While the Lucent Flexicoder isn't your recommended encoder, it was ours given the differences at the time. Also note most of the people made the deals to purchase their gear up to two years ago. The software has changed a lot since then and will continue to get better. However, when your car gets replaced by a new model you don't throw it away and buy the newer model if there isn't anything wrong with the old one.
There is no way to determine which encoder will be the best one to use in a couple of years. One vendor may stop supporting their product or a new vendor may come out with the best thing since sliced bread. Technology changes so fast that we cannot purchase the newest gear every year or it would no longer be FREE over the air service.

It cost you around a couple of thousand to get up and running with DTV. It cost us around 1000 times that to get started and still counting.


Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV; WLTX-DT

Originally posted by Kir
So why don't you use them if they are indeed better? I would understand if you had nothing else...
Kirill

We do. WOLO-TV25 is carried by Harmonic..as Is WCCB-DT's 3 Channels.:D

We didn't buy Lucent because of the RF equipment, (as we use Thales),
we bought Lucent because it was the best choice vs cost at the time.

As to Bose, they are a valued client of WOLO. (and made in Columbia!)
I'd love to have an "older" pair of 901's....:cool:

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
We do. WOLO-TV25 is carried by Harmonic..as Is WCCB-DT's 3 Channels.:D

:D


As to Bose, they are a valued client of WOLO. (and made in Columbia!)
I'd love to have an "older" pair of 901's....:cool:
LOL!

Kirill

Is it just me, or PBS is broadcasting half-power?
Since about Thursday I can't get it higher then 54%. All other OTA stations are at 100%

Kirill

I watched the entire game on Sunday. It was by far the best CBS HD basketball broadcast I have ever seen. No dropouts, no pixelation , and very little motion artifacts as compared to Friday's dual broadcast.

Weird.

I watch a lot of HDTV and the beginning of that game (which was all I watched) was awful. Definitely not up to par with the normal WLTX HD stuff. Like I said the static images were terrific, the motion artifacts and pixellation was bad. This was not the case with football last Fall, also on CBS.

I'll watch next weekend and see if it is any better for me.

-- Cain

Why was Dragnet not in HD Sunday night ?

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
No ABC-HD on WOLO Tonite due to an audio problem, We'll get it fixed as
soon as we can.

It as been corrected as of 4pm Monday.

Thank you Bob, glad to see a DT station as responsive to the viewers like yours is, I truly enjoy the ABC HD programming. Now if only I could pick up a FOX station in DT so I could watch the FOX widescreen NASCAR. But, alas my local FOX in Greenville is not on the air on the DT channel yet and the other FOX stations in the area are at too low a power level to pick up a signal.

Well,
Since you're having such good luck, have you tried WCCB-DT on Ch27?
I doubt you'll get it, but who knows!

Am I the only one who gets all local channels OTA?

Kirill

Kirill, I get them all OTA. I've been waiting for all the leaves to appear hoping that I won't loose and signal or induce multipath.

Mike

Kirill,
Sometimes. Here are my results (Samsung SIRT-150 and Radio Shack Double-Bowtie antenna).
- Antenna placed Outdoors... YES (CBS, ABC, NBC, ETV, FOX)
- Antenna placed Indoors .... NO (cannot get ETV or FOX)

Outdoors entails placing the DBT antenna on a plastic chair atop metal patio table with 25ft coax run out the back door (temp solution at best). Indoors means placing the antenna atop our china cabinet in next room using a run of 15ft of coax (solution also has a very low SAF). What is needed is a cable run down interior wall (difficult to achieve) running to an appropriate antenna in attic or roof.

FWIW, here is what the program guide for the Sammy showed the other night (channel number; station ID; program information (if any):

19-1 WLTX-HD .......JAG
19-2 WLTX-SD .......DTV Program
25-1 WOLO-DT........No Data
25-2 WOLO-SD........No Data
32-1 ETV-1.............ETV SD-1 Programming'
32-2 ETV-2.............ETV-2
32-3 ETV-HD...........ETV-HD
41-1 (blank)............No Data
41-2 (blank)............No Data
41-3 (blank)............No Data
57-1 WACH-HD........No Data

Observations:
- All station numbers appear to be remapping correctly.
- Only WLTX is actually using PSIP for program information (Bob Davis has said WOLO's PSIP is currently problematic but is being worked on).
- Multicasting seems to be the norm for local broadcasting and full bitrate HD is NOT available OTA in our area.
- FOX apparently labels their DTV channel as HD.

I might add I still have HD via TWC but having the Sammy (newly acquired) does now give me NBC and FOX (with some work).

Bruce

HI Bruce-
Glad to see you finally have an OTA receiver. Thanks for the info below.

Originally posted by bdenman

Observations:
- All station numbers appear to be remapping correctly.
- Only WLTX is actually using PSIP for program information (Bob Davis has said WOLO's PSIP is currently problematic but is being worked on).

WOLO's PSIP generator has a software bug relative to daylight savings time, so I have it currently turned off, especially since I will be out of town the next week. We think(hope?) WOLO-DT will run fine thru the time change.


- Multicasting seems to be the norm for local broadcasting and full bitrate HD is NOT available OTA in our area.

WOLO-DT runs full bit-rate of 15 m/b..There is a bit more if needed, but I
haven't had anyone complain, that I know of?

Bruce

Thanks Bruce, take care.
Bob

"- Multicasting seems to be the norm for local broadcasting and full bitrate HD is NOT available OTA in our area. "

Full bitrate would not be available over cable either since they pick us ota for retrans to you.

"Observations:
- All station numbers appear to be remapping correctly. "
WLTX runs 17.5 MB for the HD.

All stations do not remap their DTV correctly. For example WLTX is analog ch 19 so the proper remap for the DTV should be 19-1 not 17-1. This is a standard that is being implemented across the country.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX-TV; WLTX-DT

Here is what I see with Samsung SIRT-TS160:
19-1 WLTX-HD
19-2 WLTX-SD
25-1 WOLO-DT
25-2 WOLO-SD
32-3 ETV-HD
35-1 ETV-SD1 (notice the channel number difference with above)
35-2 ETV-SD2
41-1 WIS-HD
41-2 WIS-SD1
41-3 WIS-SD2
57-1 WACH-HD

All gets picked up by CM3016 antenna with CM7777 pre-amp on a 30ft telescopic mast.

PS: Let me ask this question again: What is happening with PBS (ETV) lately? The signal strength dropped from 100% to 54%. All other stations are still at 100%

Kirill

Hi Bruce! It's been a while...

Just a quick note to ask how your OTA is going...looks like you have come a long way since a year or so ago when we were so excited about the PBS demo loop (since that was the only available HD at the time) Too bad they never got back to those initial bit rate levels...I miss those days!

Just curious to know if you can tell a difference between the OTA HD and TWC HD since you mentioned you have both? I am talking about PQ only...

Take care,

Bruce

Originally posted by Dan'sHiPix
WLTX runs 17.5 MB for the HD.
It is good to hear that CBS/WLTX is using 17.5mb/s for 1080i. I feared it was worse and that it would become really evident on some future programming. Perhaps not. Bottom line is right now I cannot point to any on-going problem other than that with PBS-HD. Due to lack of viewing experience, I cannot yet speak for NBC which is also doing 1 HD service and 2 SD services.

As a HD viewer my preference is to have but one DTV service...HD. From a practical matter, local stations are multicasting and I can see how multicasting may have some advantages. I could accept it better perhaps if, when appropriate, the broadcast station would turn off the SD services and devote the full bandwidth to HD. (will concede perhaps having a simple weather channel is not a severe impact). I will agree that some of our comments could become a self full-filling prophecy... expect problems and viola' you will see them.

I know I see motion artifacts at times on PBS HD. Last I heard SCETV was using about 12.6mb/s for their HD (they run 1 HD and 2 SD services). Last summer Hap Griffin/SCETV said they expected to recover up to about 900k in bandwidth in tweaking their encoder so perhaps their bitrate is somewhat higher now.


Originally posted by Dan'sHiPix
All stations do not remap their DTV correctly. For example WLTX is analog ch 19 so the proper remap for the DTV should be 19-1 not 17-1. This is a standard that is being implemented across the country.

I have been known to "open mouth and insert foot"; Never say never; Never say all. <g> I should avoid saying what is right or wrong; just report what I see here. To that extent, WLTX-DT (Ch 17) is remapping to their analog channel number (19-x) as does WOLO-DT (8 to 25-x) and and WACH (48 to 57-1). SCETV/WRLK-DT does not (32 is 32-x) nor does WIS-DT (41 is 41-x). Kir reported different numbers for WRLK but tonight my Sammy again showed them still as 32-x,''


Originally posted by Dan'sHiPix
Full bitrate would not be available over cable either since they pick us ota for retrans to you.
Thats how I understood it. TWC gets your feed OTA and if there is a problem it may be with their receiver (which apparently has happened) and thus may warrant a call to TWC.

Bruce

Originally posted by Kir

PS: Let me ask this question again: What is happening with PBS (ETV) lately? The signal strength dropped from 100% to 54%. All other stations are still at 100%


I have no idea; if I put my DBT outside I can get them okay.
Also, FWIW, SCETV came in tonight again as 32-x on my Sammy

Bruce

Originally posted by rodeoclown
Just curious to know if you can tell a difference between the OTA HD and TWC HD since you mentioned you have both? I am talking about PQ only...

Bruce,
Long time no see! So far I have not been able to discern any real difference! (ditto back in January when I used a Zenith receiver for a couple of weeks). The PQ on TWC is fine and I have no preference regarding PQ. I am not using a switch right now (Mits only has one HD input) so I cannot do a quick A/B check but I really am happy with the TWC feed. I will comment here if/when I do see a difference. Note I got the Sammy to play with and it does give me NBC and FOX for now which are not on TWC.

Bruce

"Count the blades of grass. Viewers with high-definition television sets will be able to catch live action from all four rounds of the Masters in HDTV. Coverage of Thursday's and Friday's rounds will begin at 4 p.m. and can be found on Time Warner cable 813 in HDTV, or on USA, cable ch. 25 in analog. Rounds three and four will air on CBS and can be found in HDTV on Time Warner channel 810."

The State 04/04/03

"Coverage of Thursday's and Friday's rounds will begin at 4 p.m. and can be found on Time Warner cable 813 in HDTV, or on USA, cable ch. 25 in analog. Rounds three and four will air on CBS and can be found in HDTV on Time Warner channel 810."

That is not correct! To my knowledge the only place you can see the Thursday and Friday extended coverage of the Masters in HD is from WLTX on cable channel 810. I will investigate 813, I did not see the article in the paper. Thanks for the info.

Dan Stalnaker
Chief Engineer
WLTX

Hollywood Reporter (http://hollywoodreporter.com ) reports that the USA coverage will also be on Directv and Dish... (I don't see a release yet from directv on their web site about this)

Masters is HDTV tee off for USA
April 03, 2003

USA Networks will make its first foray into high-definition television next week by carrying the first two days of the Masters, where Tiger Woods will try to win his fourth consecutive title. USA, part of Vivendi Universal's United Television Group, will carry the feed on a channel separate from its regular standard-definition programming. As of the announcement Wednesday, the telecast will be available on DirecTV and Dish Network and in at least some areas served by Comcast Corp. and Charter Communications. "This technology will enable viewers to feel as if they're sitting in the front row of the gallery," said Doug Holloway, USA president of network distribution. The telecast from the Augusta National Golf Club in Georgia is set to begin at 4 p.m. EDT on April 10 and 11. It will be carried in the 1080i standard and use 42 cameras. Bill Macatee will host USA's coverage. CBS will continue its three-year tradition of carrying the Masters in HDTV by telecasting the final two days of the four-day tournament. (Jesse Hiestand

The Masters Early Rounds Thu & Fri on USA - On Cable & DBS!
Excerpted from The Hollywood Reporter and other sources:

USA Networks will make its first foray into high-definition television next week by carrying the first two days of the Masters. USA will carry the feed on a channel separate from its regular standard-definition programming. As of the announcement Wednesday, the telecast will be available on DirecTV and Dish Network and in at least some areas served by Comcast Corp. and Charter Communications. Additional reports also have TWC carrying the telecast, and other cableco's are expected to sign on.

Live early-round of coverage of the Masters® can be seen Thursday-Friday, April 10-11 (4 PM Live ET/1 PM PT) on USA Network. Bill Macatee will host USA's coverage from the Butler Cabin. Joining Macatee on USA Network's Thursday and Friday coverage will be long-time USA announce partner Peter Kostis, Jim Nantz and Lanny Wadkins in the 18th Tower along with David Feherty, Peter Oosterhuis, Bobby Clampett, Verne Lundquist and Dick Enberg.


It should be noted the USA coverage is in addition to the 4 days of CBS's OTA HDTV coverage.

Ken H
__________________
"Better living thru modern, expensive electronics devices"
tm

Da source!

Originally posted by bdenman
I have no idea; if I put my DBT outside I can get them okay.
Also, FWIW, SCETV came in tonight again as 32-x on my Sammy

Bruce
Hi Bruce,
I can get PBS ok also, but the level dropped from 100% to 54% in the last few days. What is your reading?
As for the channel numbers, I think that channel numbers sent by DirecTV take precedence over PSIP data, that would explain the differences.

Kirill

I was able to pick up WCCB-DT Friday night from Enoree after i swung my antenna toward Charlotte, my signal strength reading was from 36-40 and I had lots of drop outs. What is the current power level of WCCB-DT and is it within the realm of possibility to crank up the power for the FOX NASCAR telecasts on Sundays to enable more viewers to receive the FOX wide screen broadcast in this area, as WHNS-DT in Greenville is not transmitting yet and will not do the wide screen when they do go on the air?Maybe the bean counters at WCCB could consider this a goodwill gesture to the viewers in the area. Could a 3-4 hour power up for 4 times a month till July cost THAT much?

kirill,

I moved my RS DBT antenna outside to check signals (indoors reception tonight was limited to NBC and CBS). While I don't really have a baseline to compare against tonight here is what I am seeing on the Samsung SIRT-150 on its temporary perch outdoors (HD channel for all but FOX):

PBS/WRLK: fluctuating between 0 and 2 bars; mostly 1. (0% on upper scale). Unwatchable; lots of breakups.
CBS/WLTX: Fluctuating getween 6 and 7 bars (~45 to 50% upper scale). Solid signal.
ABC/WOLO: Solid 6 bars (~45% upper scale) Solid signal
NBC/WIS: Solid 7 bars (~50% upper scale) Solid signal
FOX/WACH: 0 bars Was off air maybe; I was able to receive it earlier (exact level unknown).

Note I have always had problems with PBS from here so I don't know if they have changed their power or not.

Bruce

Why is the final four not in HD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????

Well it was bound to happen. CBS in Glorious SD on the HD channel.

I just called and they had it listed as SD. I told them it was HD and they just flipped the switch.

You guys are WELCOME!!!

Thanks Jay, awful game however.

It sure was, Kevin. I just ran to get beer just in case this one is just as nasty. I bet ClemPson sure wishes they would have paid Rick Barnes more $$.

Have a good night!

Jay, Looks like this will be a great HD game. Picture quality is good tonight, I however think last weeks game were a little sharper. It looks like to me that they using more sd shots framed for 16x9.

Its 3 PM Sunday and no signal at all on WOLO-DT, analog is on ok but nothing on DT.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by enoree
Its 3 PM Sunday and no signal at all on WOLO-DT, analog is on ok but nothing on DT. [/QUOTE

It's on, but it's crappy sd.

Originally posted by kevinivey
[QUOTE]Originally posted by enoree
Its 3 PM Sunday and no signal at all on WOLO-DT, analog is on ok but nothing on DT. [/QUOTE

It's on, but it's crappy sd.

no problem here
RCA DTC 100 RSL=88
ZENITH 520 RSL = 90

WOLO: As of 4pm here WOLO is coming in fine OTA (albeit the programming is but SD as expected). I have no idea what it was like earlier (been snoozing). It appears they (and WLTX and WIS) switched over to DST alright (can't speak for the others). We will see later this evening if things are working correctly when there is some HD scheduled (not sports).

Jim Grasty: good to hear from you; welcome aboard! I have an antenna question for you: from Elgin what size paperclip do you use to get your (WOLO's) signal? <g>

Bruce

Originally posted by bdenman
WOLO: As of 4pm here WOLO is coming in fine OTA (albeit the programming is but SD as expected). I have no idea what it was like earlier (been snoozing). It appears they (and WLTX and WIS) switched over to DST alright (can't speak for the others). We will see later this evening if things are working correctly when there is some HD scheduled (not sports).

Jim Grasty: good to hear from you; welcome aboard! I have an antenna question for you: from Elgin what size paperclip do you use to get your (WOLO's) signal? <g>

Bruce

BRUCE:
I am about 10 miles away from my transmitters and a clothes hanger works fairly well

Jim!'
You're alive! Great! Glad to see WOLO-DT is "ok", I hope they corrected the timers for dst as I asked. I'm out here in vegas suffrin
thru NAB..ow..feet hurt..ow..body hurts..but tummy is happy! <hic>..

Enoree:
What is the current power level of WCCB-DT and is it within the realm of possibility to crank up the power ?

WCCB-DT is running the maximum power of 1 million watts as allowed by law. While we COULD put out more, that isn't legal so it won't happen.
Besides, it would not matter as you are beyond our reliable reception range based on tower height realtive to earth curvature.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
I'm here in vegas suffrin thru NAB..ow..feet hurt..ow..body hurts..but tummy is happy! <hic>..
Bob,
Careful with that "hic" stuff while doing forum/email stuff. Last New Years Eve I had a wee bit too much liquid celebration and one member of this forum probably has yet to figure out why he got a dinner-menu via email that night from me. <g> Anyway; enjoying Vegas huh! Well; enjoy your vacation and bring us back word from LV.
Bruce

Hi Dan,

Can you (or anyone else here) check and tell us exactly what times HD Masters Coverage will be available from WLTX on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday ??

I'm confused when I keep reading that the Thur and Fri afternoon coverage in HD will be on USA network, and NOT on CBS.

My father-in-law wants to come over and watch the HD broadcast in our theater, so I want to tell him what times it will air on all four days.

Thanks!!

-- Cain


PS This is very old, but is it still correct ??

CBS Sports will broadcast the 2003 Masters on the CBS Television HD Network on Thursday, April 10 and Friday, April 11 (4:00-6:30 PM, ET, each day) and Saturday, April 12 (3:30-6:30 PM, ET) and Sunday, April 13 (2:30-7:00 PM, ET) live from Augusta National Golf Club in Augusta, Ga.

Cain,

That USA Network thing was a separate deal with Dish Network and DirecTV. It doesn't affect the CBS HD broadcast schedule on WLTX-DT that Dan mentioned earlier and that is in the quote you provided. No worries.

ETV (PBS) is having a ton of problems with all three of the digital channels.
My reception is from cable,but usually mirrors a strong ota signal. I thought I would post to help you ota people ,so you wouldn't have to trouble shoot.

Originally posted by kevinivey
ETV (PBS) is having a ton of problems with all three of the digital channels.
My reception is from cable,but usually mirrors a strong ota signal. I thought I would post to help you ota people ,so you wouldn't have to trouble shoot.
*phew*. And I thought it was me :)

Kirill

Thanks Brent, but I'm still wondering if WLTX will offer HD coverage on Thursdayu dna Friday, and I have not seen confirmation of this since the USA Network coverage was announced.
-------

Ken posted this in the HDTV programming Forum..:

During the first two days of coverage, Thu 4/10 & Fri 4/11, CBS stations will be receiving two different program feeds from the network. One is the analog regularly scheduled daytime programming, the other is the digital HDTV Masters.

The 17 CBS owned and operated stations will be airing the standard daytime programming on their analog channels, and the digital channels will air the HDTV feed of The Masters. The 17 markets served by CBS O&O stations are: Austin, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, Marquette, Miami, Minneapolis, New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Salt Lake City, San Francisco, and Green Bay.

The other 80+ CBS affiliated stations capable of HDTV, have the choice of airing standard programing or the HDTV Masters feed on their digital channel.

All CBS stations are receiving information that brings the HDTV Masters feed to their attention, but it remains an elective decision of the non-O&O stations to air the HDTV feed of The Masters on Thu & Fri.

If you live in an area that can receive CBS HDTV, and your area is not on the list above, it may be a good idea to take a moment, call the station during normal business hours, and politely request they air the HDTV feed of The Masters on the digital channel. I would think the programming department or station manager would be the best place to register your suggestion. On line feedback may also be useful.

It can't hurt, and may prevent disappointment on Thu & Fri.

--------------

Well, does anyone know if WLTX will have HD coverage of the Masters today and tomorrow ???

-- Cain

Cain,
Hopefully. This is on WLTX's web site (http://www.wltx.com/sports/sports.asp?storyid=10742) this morning:

"Here's the HDTV broadcast schedule on WLTX-DT. You'll find the broadcasts on Channel 19-1 or on Time Warner cable channel 810.

Thudsday: 4:00pm - 6:30pm
Friday: 4:00pm - 6:30pm
Saturday: 3:30pm - 7:00pm
Sunday: 2:30pm - 7:00pm

You'll also see the Saturday and Sunday broadcasts on regular analog Channel 19 (Cable Channel 9)

The Thursday & Friday broadcasts are HDTV only"


Bruce

Hey all,
I just returned from Las Vegas. I was attending the NAB conference. Bruce is correct on the HDTV coverage.
I am sorry the NCAA final Four started in SD. My operators are usually pretty good about switching the HD stuff. If I had been in town, I guarantee that would not have happened. Rest assured the MASTERS WILL BE IN HD TODAY!!!!!!

Dan Stalnaker
CHIEF ENGINEER
WLTX

Thanks for the confirmation, Dan.

However, it looks like we should now say the Masters will be in HDTV on Friday or whatever day they actually start.

First round cancelled due to rain today.

It now seems that there will be television coverage of the Masters beginning at 2:00PM on Friday, two hours earlier.

I may go home a little early and hope that the HDTV appears before 4:00PM. If not, I'll watch some of the analog coverage and it'll be like magic whenever they do switch on the HD.

Again a post from Ken in the HDTV Programming Forum:

It's confirmed: Tomorrows HDTV coverage on USA & CBS will begin at 2pm EST, and continue approximately 8pm EST, or dark.

Due to the schedule changes, it's again a good idea to make a polite call to your local CBS station, as indicated in the 'Hot Tip' topic, make them aware of the new schedule, and request they put the HDTV feed on the air at 2pm EST.

Due to the conflicting times, West coast CBS HDTV viewers will not see The Young & Restless in HDTV tomorrow.

The USA HD screen on TWC says Masters coverage on Friday is 2-8pm.

There be golf.. Masters in HD... via TWC on both CBS and USA

Originally posted by bdenman
There be golf.. Masters in HD... via TWC on both CBS and USA

Have you compared the two feeds yet? The WLTX-DT feed has a choppy surround sound via TWC. The USA-HD has excellent sound. Can anyone else verify this?

I seem to have been out of the loop w.r.t. USA Network via TWC. Has there always been USA on TWC 813? At any rate, the 813 picture seems to have a little more bandwidth. There are some occasional catches in the image on 810 that seem less often on 813.

Either way, these images are fantastic. When a player hands his club to the caddy after a shot, you can not only see the mud on the leading edge of the club you can see the little broken blades of grass caught in the mud. Remarkable.

I have tried to to A/B comparisons on the cable feeds and its tough; both are pretty darn good. The advantage of the higher bitrate with the USA channel over WLTX might come into play on occasion however. Listening only to analog audio I am not experiencing any problems here with either of the two feeds. (I had a case of the dropsies with my digital audio coax; it was dropped during a box switch over and got buried behind the TV... oops).

Brent: they ramped up Channel 813 USAHD (yesterday) just for the Masters. It will go away after the Masters is over.

Bruce

WIS-HD OTA has a 1kHz tone instead of an actual sound.
WIS-SD1 has the right sound.
Weird...

Kirill

In the past I have noticed that WLTX's HD suffers from compression artifacts with fast moving images. I do not think anyone has had the ability in the past to A/B their HD against an independent source, so this is interesting to me for folks who can receive both signals to do so, and post the results here.

I have assumed it was a bandwidth issue for WLTX that they could not rectify without dumping the other digital channel(s).

-- Cain

PS I apologize to the WLTX folks for being so picky, their commitment to HD has been very much appreciated. Perhaps I am one of the few with a screen large enough to notice their compression artifacts, so I'll sit down now and hush.

I thought the USA channel was a little sharper and crisper. I throughly enjoyed. Noticed very little motion artifacts on my little 53' widescreen. (-:

Originally posted by Cain
so I'll sit down now and hush.

Aww, Qwit raisin Cain, Ok?

Sorry, couldn't pass it up!
:D

Aww, Qwit raisin Cain, Ok?

Heheh.. I need to !!

I wanted to provide some feedback for the WLTX HD signal, but did not intend to only be complaining. Any HD signal these days is much appreciated, and CBS's commitment to HD is very much appreciated!!

-- Cain

Now if only ABC would get their act together as well as CBS has!

I have "installed" my Radio Shack Double Bowtie in the attic. I am getting solid locks if not high strength signal readings from WLTX-DT/CBS, WOLO-DT/ABC, and WIS-DT/NBC. WACH-DT/FOX is nowhere to be found (no signal at all); not sure why. If anyone can confirm they are on the air I would appreciate it.

Bruce

Wltx,I applaud your transmission today. Absolutely flawless on my set. This beats the Super Bowl hands down! I didn't have any drops in audio or video while I watched.(3.0 hrs)