Thinking of going DISH for the dishHD package with DVR. Got a few questions though:

- how many cables need to come into the house from the dish ie holes drilled in my wall
- is there a new dvr coming out soon to replace the VIP722
- why do many people say they are dropping DISH and say it is for "obvious reasons" (I guess I would probably pay the $49 fee for no commitment just in case I become one of those people ;-) )

Thanks in advance.

Will

I've had Dish for several months now and I love it. I think the VIP722 is the best DVR of any content provider. I don't know of any new DVRs coming out any time soon.

Only one line is required from the dish to the DVR. A separator is installed at the DVR. I have a second line coming from a rooftop antenna to pickup my local Fox affiliate in HD which is the only local channel in my area not available in HD through the dish.

I don't know what the "obvious reasons" would be for switching from Dish. The picture quality on both HD and SD is great, much better than Comcast. That's not to mention they offer far more HD content than Comcast. The only issues I've had is the unusual amount of snow we've had this winter that has forced me to brush of the Dish more than I thought I would. A dish heater would solve that; though I doubt you'll have too many issues like that in Florida. ;)

I actually tried DirecTV first and since they were unwilling to work with me to get line of sight I dumped them and called Dish. I'm glad I did now as I have used the DirecTV HR20 DVR and I was not impressed compared to the VIP722.

The "obvious" reasons many speak of are that DISH is currently behind DirecTV in number of national "HD" channels. DISH has 3 Satellite launches scheduled for 2008, so they should have caught up by the end of the year. Others have a more legitimate complaint that DISH does not offer their locals in HD, but DISH has announced plans to address that in 2008 as well.

The 722 is the cream of the crop. I am very happy with mine. The 612 just came out, but it is nothing more than a cost-reduced, single-TV 622.

Ted

Thanks for the replies. How many cables need to run through the wall from the dish to the 722 if I am doing HD only? Trying to estimate WAF.

The 722 can combine the signals for both tuners into 1 cable. They are separated back out by a little box that hangs off the back of the DVR. You can even diplex in OTA signals as well onto that 1 cable should you choose.

Ted

The 722 rocks, and this is coming from a former Tivo/DVD burner owner.

Very easy to navigate, I have added two external drives to save content for myself as well as my girlfriends, the external USB HD support was a big selling point to me.

I have a second line coming from a rooftop antenna to pickup my local Fox affiliate in HD which is the only local channel in my area not available in HD through the dish

I just ordered Dish over the weekend and have an install scheduled tomorrow. The rep told me that any local HD that is broadcast in my area would be included in the HD locals provided by Dish? I was very clear with them and clarified this more than once.

So, why is it that you couldn't get Fox HD "through the dish"?? I'm in the SF Bay Area & signed up for the DishHD only package if that means anything different.

DISH has 3 Satellite launches scheduled for 2008, so they should have caught up by the end of the year.

Any idea which channels will be coming? CNBC is the only HD channel that I wanted, which DirecTV has and Dish does not.

I just ordered Dish over the weekend and have an install scheduled tomorrow. The rep told me that any local HD that is broadcast in my area would be included in the HD locals provided by Dish? I was very clear with them and clarified this more than once.

So, why is it that you couldn't get Fox HD "through the dish"?? I'm in the SF Bay Area & signed up for the DishHD only package if that means anything different.



Any idea which channels will be coming? CNBC is the only HD channel that I wanted, which DirecTV has and Dish does not.

DISH and DirecTV both have been unable to negotiate rebroadcast rights with certain individual affiliates which means that not all HD locals will be carried. Also, DISH does not carry CW in HD in most places. According to www.dishnetwork.com, you will receive NBC, CBS, and FOX in HD, but not ABC. "The List" says you will actually get KGO: http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php?search=dn119&sub=true

DISH has not published which additional HD channels are coming yet.

Ted

in charlotte nc i get abc, cbs, fox, and nbc in hd. and i love my vip722...and about cw in hd when i had it with time warner there werent many broadcasts from them in hd, so not a huge loss for me.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Just to follow up, the two (:-0) dishes were installed on Monday but needed only one cable into the house through the wall. The DVR is great so far but still getting used to it after using the Moto 6412 from Comcast. Picture seems a little softer than cable on my Sharp 45DG4U 1080p LCD via HDMI but the 722 Dual mode TV2 feature and $29 HD only package sealed the deal for me. Thanks again.

Will

Recently (2/21) had 722 HD DVR installed in our family room and have enjoyed the great picture...still trying to figure out all the features. One problem that someone might help with, it is in a small cabinet enclosure and has twice given me the "overheat" error and stopped working until the temp comes down. Solution so far has been to leave the cabinet door open, which is not optimal. After talking to the DISH techs they suspect fan is not working and are sending out a new unit. Anyone else had similar problems? The DISH install folks saw exactly where it was going to be installed and said nothing about any heat problems.
Thanks,
Larry

The 722, and probably most DVRs, put out a lot of heat and need to be in a well ventalated place with lots of room on all sides.

Rick R

Recently (2/21) had 722 HD DVR installed in our family room and have enjoyed the great picture...still trying to figure out all the features. One problem that someone might help with, it is in a small cabinet enclosure and has twice given me the "overheat" error and stopped working until the temp comes down. Solution so far has been to leave the cabinet door open, which is not optimal. After talking to the DISH techs they suspect fan is not working and are sending out a new unit. Anyone else had similar problems? The DISH install folks saw exactly where it was going to be installed and said nothing about any heat problems.
Thanks,
Larry

This is common on DVRs, especially the 622/722. They are not meant to be cooped up in an equipment cabinet. They want to breathe freely. They are essentially computers. You would not stuff your computer in an enclosed box with little ventilation would you?

Ted

Has anyone had any trouble with their OTA signals coming into this reciever? Mine work fine except for my local CBS affiliate. Even that is OK for the most part, but when I'm watching basketball, the video often gets very jumpy. It only seems to happen during CBS basketball, usually when the camera is panning or zoomed in on a player. If I put my antenna directly into my TV, all seems fine. Any ideas?

Has anyone had any trouble with their OTA signals coming into this reciever? Mine work fine except for my local CBS affiliate. Even that is OK for the most part, but when I'm watching basketball, the video often gets very jumpy. It only seems to happen during CBS basketball, usually when the camera is panning or zoomed in on a player. If I put my antenna directly into my TV, all seems fine. Any ideas?

All my OTA signals come in fine except CBS, but I also see the problem on my Samsung TV, so I think it is just the signal. Your TV might handle signal issues better than the 722.

Ted

All my OTA signals come in fine except CBS, but I also see the problem on my Samsung TV, so I think it is just the signal. Your TV might handle signal issues better than the 722.

Ted,

Thanks for the reply. I considered that as well, but I've noticed it regardless of signal strength. I've had it happen with signal in the mid to low 70's as well as the upper 80's or 90's. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the way the 722 handles the signal's framerate / the televisions display frequency / 3:2 pulldown, etc.. Unfortunately, that's where I'm not as knowledge as many others.

Well, one other difference between the 722 and your TV is how conversion is handled. The TV takes the OTA signal and directly converts it into the TVs native resolution and frame rate. However the 722 converts the OTA signal into whatever format you have chosen for your component or HDMI cable. Then the TV reconverts this into the TVs native resolution and frame rate. It is possible that this double conversion is causing problems. Just a guess.

Rick R

Well, one other difference between the 722 and your TV is how conversion is handled. The TV takes the OTA signal and directly converts it into the TVs native resolution and frame rate. However the 722 converts the OTA signal into whatever format you have chosen for your component or HDMI cable. Then the TV reconverts this into the TVs native resolution and frame rate. It is possible that this double conversion is causing problems. Just a guess.

Rick R

My TV upconverts everything to 1080p60, so, in my case, both devices do this upconversion process.

Ted

My TV upconverts everything to 1080p60, so, in my case, both devices do this upconversion process.

Ted


Mine too. So my 722 outputs at 1080i, and the tv converts to 1080p... doesn't seem like that would cause any jumpiness, would it? And if that were the case, I would expect it on more than one type of program. Just for giggles one day I set the 722 to output at 420 and 720, and both times till had the jerkies.

Mine too. So my 722 outputs at 1080i, and the tv converts to 1080p... doesn't seem like that would cause any jumpiness, would it? And if that were the case, I would expect it on more than one type of program. Just for giggles one day I set the 722 to output at 420 and 720, and both times till had the jerkies.

It may be an encoder issue at the station. They could be reducing the bitrate to make room for sub-channels. The TV might deal with that lower bitrate better than the 722.

Also, 3:2 pulldown should not be an issue. That should only apply to 24 fps content, not sporting events.

Ted

I am going to wildly speculate. If you were watching a 720p 60 fps sports event that would be converted to 1080i 30 fps by the 722. Then the TV would convert it back to 1080p 60 fps. It could introduce some issues. On the other hand it could be like Ted said, the TV could handle the decoding better. However I have little problems with my 622's decoding of a channel.

Another thought. The are you watching the local channel on the 722 OTA or via satellite? If from satellite, Dish takes the MPEG2 OTA signal and reencodes it to MPEG4. This could have issues also.

Rick R

Another thought. The are you watching the local channel on the 722 OTA or via satellite? If from satellite, Dish takes the MPEG2 OTA signal and reencodes it to MPEG4. This could have issues also.

I'm watching the local channel via OTA antenna going into the 722. This particular station doesn't have any sub-channels, at least not that I'm aware of. As you've both said, I'm sure it's just a matter of the TV doing a better job of decoding the signal. I just couldn't understand why it would only seem to be on one channel during one kind of broadcast. Figures that it would be basketball on CBS this time of year. :)

I'm watching the local channel via OTA antenna going into the 722. This particular station doesn't have any sub-channels, at least not that I'm aware of. As you've both said, I'm sure it's just a matter of the TV doing a better job of decoding the signal. I just couldn't understand why it would only seem to be on one channel during one kind of broadcast. Figures that it would be basketball on CBS this time of year. :)

An MPEG2 OTA signal at full bandwidth might be the problem. Sports especially require higher bitrates to maintain the same picture quality due to the constant motion. If the OTA signal is that the full 18Mbps, perhaps the 722 cannot keep up and drops frames. Very few stations out there actually broadcast at full bandwidth and satellite signals are generally lower bitrate since they are (mostly) MPEG4 on Dish. I could see an engineer deciding to ignore the edge case of an OTA stations with no subchannels.

Do you know if it happens more when you are recording other things at the same time versus just watching the OTA broadcast?

Ted

Do you know if it happens more when you are recording other things at the same time versus just watching the OTA broadcast?

You make a very good point there. I never thought about the OTA using a higher bandwidth than the satellite. And I think the only other local OTA near me that broadcasts in 1080 has subchannels.

I hadn't thought to check for differences in performance depending on recording / other DVR use, but with the tourney being on at all hours for the next couple days, I'll definitely examine it.

You make a very good point there. I never thought about the OTA using a higher bandwidth than the satellite. And I think the only other local OTA near me that broadcasts in 1080 has subchannels.

I hadn't thought to check for differences in performance depending on recording / other DVR use, but with the tourney being on at all hours for the next couple days, I'll definitely examine it.

Hey I am having the exact same problem watchin my local CBS affiliate over the air. And it is only during basketball games. I know for a fact that my CBS affiliate is broadcasting a total of 3 channels on the signal. CBS, MYTV, and a weather feed.

Hey I am having the exact same problem watchin my local CBS affiliate over the air. And it is only during basketball games. I know for a fact that my CBS affiliate is broadcasting a total of 3 channels on the signal. CBS, MYTV, and a weather feed.

Finally... you are the only other person I've heard of with this problem. Good to know I haven't totally lost my mind.

Just switched from Dish to antenna for locals and no program guide data is being displayed for them. It just says "Digital Service". Please let me know if this is normal or something is not configured correctly. No guide data for OTA would make it very difficult to record OTA programs. Dish tech support was no help btw.

You have to subscribe to locals to get the guide info for OTA channels. If you don't, you just get "Digital Service" in the guide.

You have to subscribe to locals to get the guide info for OTA channels. If you don't, you just get "Digital Service" in the guide.

This is correct. It also helps to do a check switch if you are already subscribed the first time to setup OTA, as that will re-download the guide data.

Ted

Thanks for the help. Still confused though. So if you subscribe to Dish locals you can get the guide data via Dish and then choose whether to use the antenna or Dish for that channel or do you have to use the Dish channel to record using guide data? Just trying to figure out if having the antenna connected is of any benefit.

Thanks for the help. Still confused though. So if you subscribe to Dish locals you can get the guide data via Dish and then choose whether to use the antenna or Dish for that channel or do you have to use the Dish channel to record using guide data? Just trying to figure out if having the antenna connected is of any benefit.

Once the guide data shows up, you can select either the OTA or SAT channels to record. I record LOST on OTA and CSI on SAT for instance. Some nights, I need all 3 tuners (2 SAT and 1 OTA), although this is rare since the writer's strike.

Ted

Got it working so thanks again for the help. Just in time for Dish to pull their DVR's due to the Tivo lawsuit ;-)

Got it working so thanks again for the help. Just in time for Dish to pull their DVR's due to the Tivo lawsuit ;-)

I doubt this will happen. The 722 runs software that Dish says is non-infringing. You'll notice the FF/RW is not as smooth as Tivo? This is part of the code they changed to make it non-infringing. We'll see if the courts agree.

Ted

Just switched from Dish to antenna for locals and no program guide data is being displayed for them. It just says "Digital Service". Please let me know if this is normal or something is not configured correctly. No guide data for OTA would make it very difficult to record OTA programs. Dish tech support was no help btw.

That's normal, and pretty cheezy of Dish IMO. My old Samsung Direct TV HD receiver bring in the OTA guide data without a dish hooked up to it, so Dish must be blocking what's out there embedded in the signal. You can do acustom record of OTA channels, but it is a pain.

That's normal, and pretty cheezy of Dish IMO. My old Samsung Direct TV HD receiver bring in the OTA guide data without a dish hooked up to it, so Dish must be blocking what's out there embedded in the signal. You can do acustom record of OTA channels, but it is a pain.

Yeah, it would be nice if they didn't require that your sub to the LIL locals to get the guide data. I think it probably has to do with how they programmed their EPG.

Ted

I have an odd problem. I am using an antenna to get my Locals in HD. Most of my channels have programming data except for NBC. I swear I am not subscribed to local channels, yet I am receiving them through my DISH. My local NBC station is available in both SD and HD on Dish, BUT I seem to not be receiving the HD signal on DISH. I don't really care about getting the compressed HD signal from DISH, all I care about is why my OTA NBC signal doesn't have program data and who I should contact about getting that fixed.