Converter Boxes Sold In The Major Stores [Text View]

BobDiaz

02-21-08, 02:20 PM

This thread covers which converter boxes are sold in the major stores. Because we are at the starting point of seeing the boxes arrive at the stores, I thought it would be interesting to see who is selling which box. My selection for a "major store" is any store that is likely to be found around the USA.

The major stores I could think of are: Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears, Target, Radio Shack and Walmart. If someone knows of any to add to the list, lease let me know.

As of Wednesday, 2/20/2008 here's what I've found on the WEB pages for the major stores:

Best Buy: Insignia NS-DXA1, SKU: 8624081 $59.99

This model is the same as the Zenith model DTT900 found at other stores. The only difference appears to to the brand name on the unit.

While the customer reviews are limited, most give the box good marks.

Circuit City: Zenith DTT 900, $59.99

This box is the same as the Insignia NS-DXA1 found at Best Buy. The only difference appears to to the brand name on the unit.

While the customer reviews are limited, most give the box good marks.

Sears:

Sears does not show any DTV Converters in stock, but I believe that they should have some coming in the next few weeks.

Target:

Target does not show any DTV Converters in stock, but I believe that they should have some coming in the next few weeks.

Radio Shack: Zenith DTT 900, 15-148, $59.99

This box is the same as the Insignia NS-DXA1 found at Best Buy. The only difference appears to to the brand name on the unit.

While the customer reviews are limited, most give the box good marks.

Walmart: Magnavox TB100MW9, $49.87

I'm very troubled by the fact that 4 out of 10 people had trouble with the unit. (See user reviews on the Walmart WEB Page.) Maybe this was due to problems with the first units, but I would need to see if later reviews look better. For now, I would not pick this model.

Everything must be controlled by the remote, there are no buttons on this box; so if you loose the remote, you have a problem.

Walmart: RCA DTA800, $49.87

The one review that appears so far, gives the box good marks. However, I like to see at least several reviews to judge the product.

That's all I know so far, I will update this list as more models appear in the stores. If I made a mistake, please post a correction.

Thanks,

Bob Diaz

ciwsguy

02-21-08, 02:25 PM

I reserve judgement on the Magnavox units sold at Walmart. I have a feeling that the users may think these are just plug and play as they may be used to watching OTA TV programs in continuous snowstorms or ghoststorms. A crappy signal from an indoor antenna or attic antenna, or a bad antenna may lead the users to think that it's the box, where in fact it may be the signal quality fed to the receiver. Like I said, I reserve judgement.

Scooper

02-21-08, 03:31 PM

Webpages aren't the be-all/end-all. Around here, Radio Shack is carrying the Digital Stream DTX9900.

troydog

02-21-08, 04:00 PM

Since K mart owns Sears will they have the same units?

ReplayJanitor

02-21-08, 04:00 PM

Target:

Target does not show any DTV Converters in stock, but I believe that they should have some coming in the next few weeks.

Target has announced they'll start selling DTV boxes starting in May 2008, so it'll be more than a few weeks.

ledgerat

02-21-08, 05:03 PM

For those of us with an HH Gregg, they have the Zenith at only $49.97 (at least listed that way online)

http://www.hhgregg.com/ProductDetail.asp?SID=F9FB7B76D3CD4158992E786970E6E212&ProductID=20363

Ken H

02-21-08, 05:07 PM

Since K mart owns Sears will they have the same units?One would think so.

Ken H

02-21-08, 05:08 PM

The Zenith will be interesting, I wonder if LG put in the 6th gen chip set, or at least some part of it.

BobDiaz

02-21-08, 08:02 PM

The Zenith will be interesting, I wonder if LG put in the 6th gen chip set, or at least some part of it.

I think the answer is yes, but I'm not 100% sure. If you go to this link you will find External photos, internal photos, the user guide, and more.

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=406918&fcc_id=\\\'BEJ9QKE00710\\\'

While the photo of the chip is a bit fuzzy, it does look like the 6tg generation chip. I could be wrong however.

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200612/200612280032.html

Another reason to believe it's the 6th generation chip is the following press release:

LG Electronics Launches Sixth-Generation ATSC Digital TV Broadcast Receiver Chipset
LAS VEGAS, April 17 -- In anticipation of the 2008 launch of its digital-to-analog converter box to support the completion of the digital television (DTV) transition in the United States, LG Electronics Inc. is launching its sixth-generation reception circuitry in a wide range of DTV products hitting the market this year.

Building on the proven success of LG's fifth-generation chipset, which set the standard for over-the-air DTV reception, the sixth-generation ATSC digital broadcast receiver chipset is being incorporated into LG's broad 2007 line of flat-screen HDTVs and digital TV receivers.
http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/5168

To me this strongly suggests it's 6th generation.

Bob Diaz

BobDiaz

02-21-08, 08:19 PM

Webpages aren't the be-all/end-all. Around here, Radio Shack is carrying the Digital Stream DTX9900.

You're right, at first I didn't find any DTV converters on the Walmart pages, but through reading other web pages, I located the links. Radio Shack page does not show the Digital Stream DTX9900 when I do a search on it. Odd, but maybe they haven't gotten enough stock to post it yet... I don't know.

I can guess that there's a lot more that doesn't appear on the web, but others can point out what they find. :)

Here are the links I've found so far...

Best Buy:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8624081&st=dtv+converter&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1199495190393

Circuit City:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Zenith-Digital-to-Analog-TV-Tuner-DTT900/sem/rpsm/oid/204154/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Radio Shack:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3006502&cp=&sr=1&origkw=DTV+Converter&kw=dtv+converter&parentPage=search

Walmart: (Magnavox)
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8283870

Walmart: (RCA)
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8343230

Sincerely,

Bob Diaz

seatacboy

02-22-08, 01:00 AM

I bought and returned two different Magnavox CECBs at Wal-Mart in early February. Both were literally unable to power up. It is not a good sign to unpack a brand-new unit, read the instructions carefully, set up everything per instructions, and get no power from the unit whatsoever. Magnavox/Funai quality control seemed to be utterly lousy. You might get lucky, though. YMMV.

I'm waiting for the $40 coupons to arrive. My plan is to buy either the Zenith/Insignia or the RCA - the latter intrigues me because of the Smart Antenna interface and the big-button remote, but the Zenith/Insignia is interesting as well.

Ironsidesusa

02-23-08, 07:00 AM

I have two digital TVs both with digital tuners and both hooked up to my roof top antenna. They both get a beautiful picture from the antenna signal.

I bought the Magnavox converter box from WALMART for use with my PVR (It has an analog TV tuner). The Magnavox unit didn't work at all! Scanning several times the result was always the same "No Signal"!

This thing is a piece of junk! Walmart should send the whole lot of them back to China where they came from and cancel their contract. It appears that the Chinese have no quality assurance program at all!

seatacboy

02-25-08, 09:13 AM

Ironside, my educated guess is MOST CECBs are manufactured in the Peoples' Republic of China. Not all Chinese-sourced electronics are bug-ridden. IMHO Magnavox/Funai's quality control on their CECBs needs improvement, though others apparently have had better luck. In addition to questionable quality control, the Magnavox box design offers very little ventilation for the electronic circuitry. The RCA DTA800B is much better in this regard.

I'd like to find NON-coupon-eligible converter boxes which have more than an RF-only video connection and somewhat broader functionality. The NTIA certification restrictions sharply limit the appeal and usefulness of these boxes.

Upon receiving my $40 coupon, I'll probably buy ONE box (probably the RCA) to cover the 1975-vintage Sony black-and-white TV in my house which doesn't have a cable tuner, and wait for the emergence of better converter box products.

Whidbey

02-25-08, 09:27 AM

I'd like to find NON-coupon-eligible converter boxes which have more than an RF-only video connection and somewhat broader functionality. The NTIA certification restrictions sharply limit the appeal and usefulness of these boxes.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095

holl_ands

03-01-08, 03:40 AM

Thomasnet link above to 6th Gen LG chip press release was truncated...try this one:
http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/516849

NetworkTV

03-01-08, 02:53 PM

Ironside, my educated guess is MOST CECBs are manufactured in the Peoples' Republic of China. Not all Chinese-sourced electronics are bug-ridden.
I understand what you're saying, but I think Ironside has a valid point: there really isn't any quality assurance in the Chinese manufacturing process. Any quality is more likely to come from a fool-proof original design than any quality in the manufacturing process. The thing is, I don't think they really care whether the product actually coming off the line works or not: it's been done according to budget.

The fact is, while I could produce nearly perfect output of product in my job, if I don't check my work, I'm just as likely to produce a product full of mistakes. The difference is, I'm held responsible for it since my company cares more about the end product than how much they paid me to produce it.

The fact is, those companies that have their products produced in those factories are counting on two things: 1) a certain percentage of people will not bother to return a defective product, especially if it works even a little bit and 2) any returns can be written off. They'll collect that money lost in other ways.

The thing is, whenever you subcontract out, you're taking the gamble that the money saved in producing it will outweigh the fact that the employees producing the product simply aren't as invested in it as a direct employee.

seatacboy

03-02-08, 11:21 AM

Network TV offered good insight into quality control issues. My own experience with two defective Magnavox CECBs that wouldn't even power up, as well as reading consumer reviews of quite a few Chinese-sourced TVs, certainly lends credibility to the notion "there really isn't any quality assurance in the Chinese manufacturing process."

Chinese manufacturers benefit from being in a very low-wage country which possesses a basic industrial infrastructure in its urban centers: readily-available electricity, water, telecommunications and other public utilities. Chinese manufacturers are able to offer such an enormous manufacturing cost advantage that effective quality control measures is deemed to be an unaffordable luxury.

In the earliest years of electronics manufacturing in Japan, Korea and Taiwan, there were times when product quality was sharply criticized. I vaguely recall there was a time in the early 1960s when the phrase "made in Japan" was associated with very low-quality goods. That certainly isn't the reputation associated with Japanese manufactured products today.

The staggering size of China's manufacturing sector and workforce raise questions whether Chinese makers will have the incentive to strive towards sharply reducing product defects and enhancing quality control.

For those of us buying consumer electronics, an increasing number of products are made in the Peoples' Republic of China. In some cases, the U.S. marketplace simply doesn't offer non-Chinese-manufactured choices for a particular product category. The new CECBs are an example of this predicament: personally I'd much rather buy a CECB which was made in Korea, made in Taiwan, made in Japan or made in the USA...but those don't appear to be marketplace choices at this point.

dbsc

03-02-08, 12:11 PM

personally I'd much rather buy a CECB which was made in Korea, made in Taiwan, made in Japan or made in the USA

Interesting order of preference. Just sayin.

NetworkTV

03-02-08, 12:47 PM

In the earliest years of electronics manufacturing in Japan, Korea and Taiwan, there were times when product quality was sharply criticized. I vaguely recall there was a time in the early 1960s when the phrase "made in Japan" was associated with very low-quality goods. That certainly isn't the reputation associated with Japanese manufactured products today.

The staggering size of China's manufacturing sector and workforce raise questions whether Chinese makers will have the incentive to strive towards sharply reducing product defects and enhancing quality control.
If China wants to evolve, they have to move up to the standards that Japan and other countries moved to. Cheap only goes so far. In addition, the recent issues with lead paint and other toxins in toys has soured people quite a bit on goods from China. Before that, it was burns caused by cheap cell phone batteries. If that continues to be their legacy, then eventually the bad press will prompt companies to get their cheap goods made elsewhere. While I doubt we'll see an increase in the "Made in Taiwan" or "Made in Korea" label, it may well result in a move toward "Made in Mexico". With the desire of those citizens to come here for jobs of any type and the increase public outcry to keep them out, the market is primed for another slide of businesses into that region. In other words, cheap labor is literally just down the road.

The bonus? A decrease of over seas shipping and a boom to border towns where shipping depots and distribution centers would be increasingly necessary to accomidate the additional product.

It becomes a win-win situation. We avoid supporting a market that continues to show a lack of concern for product safety and reliability while providing an incentive for people to remain where they are rather than attempting to "hop the fence". In short, if the product is being made outside the USA anyway, it might as well be where we can keep an eye on it.

Interesting order of preference. Just sayin.
Korea and Taiwan were huge centers for US goods prior to the recent interest in China. Those companies tended to produce both inexpensive and reliable goods as opposed to simply cheap. Unfortunately, cheap outbid inexpensive.

Japan, on the other hand, produces reliability, but is no longer the bargain it once was. Instead of being seen as cheap, they're reflecting quality and innovation. Gone are the days of the economy product. They've become a center for premium goods instead.

Since most people shop by price first (only wishing they could shop purely by brand and features), the order isn't surprising. Of course, that mentality is what brought us to the situation we're currently in. The price club has taken over our methods of shopping and quality and service is something people only think they're willing to pay for.

jjeff

03-02-08, 01:55 PM

Interesting thread, although way OT, so let me add to the OT talk.....:rolleyes:
The problem I'm having, with consumer DVD recorders in general, is they are ALL made in China, and IMO they all stink. Some sooner and more than others.
I as a consumer have NO choice to buy a quality product. Even quality mfg's of the past, namely Panasonic insist on all there new product be "made in China" for I would guess cost savings. Personally I have been through (5) $200+ Panasonic DVD recorders, all dying between zero days and 2 months from purchase date.:confused:
They have been for the most part new, from sealed boxes. I think the days of being able to pay more for certain consumer electronics and get better are mostly gone.:(
A sad state of affairs indeed. It sounds like the new converter boxes will be just more of the same, problems waiting to happen....and the only people that will be happy with theirs are the people who don't use them:D

Rammitinski

03-02-08, 03:26 PM

NetworkTV

03-02-08, 05:07 PM

Actually, because better standards are starting to be put upon the Chinese now (and their standard of living is going up, and laborers are starting to organize, etc.), their manufacturing costs are starting to rise to the point that they are starting to outsource more to places like India and Vietnam.

So now we'll have to worry about still inferior stuff coming from those places instead.
...and when the folks in India and Viet Nam get organized, things will shift to Africa or South America. At some point, the standards of the rest of the world will be high enough that we'll be back to having manufacturing plants in Iowa...

dbsc

03-02-08, 07:42 PM

...and when the folks in India and Viet Nam get organized, things will shift to Africa or South America. At some point, the standards of the rest of the world will be high enough that we'll be back to having manufacturing plants in Iowa...

... assuming by then it's still called Iowa and the country it's in is still called the United States. :/

holl_ands

03-02-08, 10:39 PM

www.digitimes.com reported:
"Zinwell, Artec & Mustek - Three Taiwan STB makers land certification
for coupon-eligible ATSC STBs"
http://www.silobreaker.com/DocumentReader.aspx?Item=5_818163981

Which you can use with your Chinese made TV....while wearing your Chinese made sportswear....and surfing via your Chinese made laptop....

medoug

03-03-08, 12:35 AM

hall

03-03-08, 07:28 AM

When I asked them if they were going to be handling any other brands like was listed on their website, they told me "No". And tomorrow (2) pallets of converters could show up. The floor people at Wal-Mart really know *nothing* about what they "will" stock in the future and in many cases, store management doesn't either.

hall

03-03-08, 07:30 AM

As of Wednesday, 2/20/2008 here's what I've found on the WEB pages for the major stores.... Many brick & mortar stores stock different items than what is stocked online. The typical person in the market for these boxes will be buying them in person, not online. Then again, this is an AVS forum where the typical consumer will NEVER venture.

FWIW, I did see an Insignia set-top in a Best Buy store yesterday.

seatacboy

03-03-08, 08:54 AM

Check out the Endgadget article Industry expects some "loose ends" in digital switchover (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/03/03/ncta-cea-expect-some-loose-ends-in-digital-switchover/)

NCTA president Kyle McSlarrow seemed more focused on putting more work into the the pre-switch side, while the CEA's Gary Shapiro called for cooler heads to prevail after the first hiccups. Seriously, no matter how much information is blasted out, there are going to be some people that are unable (or unwilling) to put together the pieces necessary to keep TV flowing into their homes

IMHO, a fair number of non-techie "Jane and Joe Consumer" OTA folks are going to be confused about DTV reception problems like pixellation, macroblocking, momentary loss of picture and sound, etc.

Most significantly, I haven't seen any retail stores actually have a CECB demonstrator model connected to a live TV and antenna. Obviously they are afraid of cannibalizing sales of new TVs, but they could certainly sell antennas to CECB customers. Retailers could also provide more information about how to deal with reception problems through antenna selection, placement, and amplification. Perhaps it's just not much of a priority!

dbsc

03-03-08, 03:14 PM

Perhaps it's just not much of a priority!

No it isn't. They're trained to upsell, a larger TV or a Tivo or local cable or one of the sat subs. Often they will mismatch these things in order to maximize sale dollars. Sure they could make a little on selling antennas and generating good will with customers by actually teaching them how to use the eqipment but ********ting for sales pays better.

Rick_R

03-04-08, 12:29 PM

China factories differ in quality a lot.

My wife is an importer of Chinese garments. Primarily womens and girls. She has a factory in China that is maybe 10% higher in cost than others but it produces the garments at the promised time and they pass incoming American quality control reliabily. Several of her customers a while ago told her that since her factory was more expensive they would no longer work with her. You know what, they came back after some big orders with the other factories.

Rick R

KenJM

03-05-08, 12:03 AM

The RadioShack I went to has the Digital Stream DTX9900 converter box

Roger Lococco

03-05-08, 12:45 PM

here in Queens, NYC. no boxes in Best Buy, Radio Shack, Target yet, CC had one lonely Zenith box with no price or description sitting amongst the dvd players, it was still there days later tossed to the side where the video cables are.

dbsc

03-05-08, 12:51 PM

it was still there days later tossed to the side where the video cables are.

Tell them it's an old TV tuner not worth anything and you'll give them five bucks for it. Worth a try right?

BobDiaz

03-05-08, 01:31 PM

The RadioShack I went to has the Digital Stream DTX9900 converter box

It looks like Radio Shack has added another convert box to their web pages:

http://www.radioshack.com/sm-digital-stream-dtx9900-digital-to-analog-converter-box--pi-3043012.html

Bob Diaz

holl_ands

03-05-08, 01:58 PM

Radio Shack didn't post a User Manual for Digital Stream DTX9900 converter box,
but they did post some alternative configuration diagrams, such as
watching either digital via converter box or analog via old TV....
as well as switching between SAT and converter box.

These may be of interest no matter which converter box you select...

Unfortunately, both of their Digital/Analog watching configurations used
an RF Splitter...which degrades sensitivity by about 4 dB.
To avoid this, you can replace splitter with an RF switch, as discussed here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13299194#post13299194
Or buy a converter with the "RF Pass-Thru" switch inside.

DigaDo

03-05-08, 09:07 PM

ajulius

03-05-08, 09:39 PM

Radioshack has the same 2 boxes as before. Nothing has changed.

Still waiting for a box with S-Video.

Tersanyus

03-06-08, 12:37 AM

Confirmed today that HH Greg has the DTT900 for 49.97. Now bad, got two with the coupon and walked out the store paying only $20 plus tax.

BobDiaz

03-06-08, 02:27 PM

As I write there are fifty government-approved converter boxes listed on the official government website.

The major stores may be offering a selection of one or two models instead of stocking a variety of models. A variety would steal retail space from other products that provide a higher profit margin. So the problem for consumers and converter box distributors becomes more difficult.

If there is a "best converter box" that does not find its way into convenient retail locations the manufacturer might be better off not producing the product in the first place. Might these products be purchased with a simple online transaction? It doesn't seem that the online logistics have been worked out.

You have hit upon the reason I generated this thread in the first place. The major stores will be limited to only a few (1 to 3) different boxes. Having too many boxes takes away floor space and only adds to customer confusion, "Which should I buy?" Which means, that we may only have a choice of around 12 to 16 different boxes out of the 50 as far as the major stores.

Boxes with special features are more likely to appear at specialty stores (like the internet stores), where buyers will understand and have the need for the extra features.

I'm really glad for this forum, because we can share information on all the different boxes and what choices we have.

Bob Diaz

DrBri99

03-07-08, 09:20 AM

I noticed an olevia box in the current list of approved converters.

target sells olevia tv's...anyone think target might carry the olevia CECB

lawnchair

03-07-08, 10:03 AM

I noticed an olevia box in the current list of approved converters.

target sells olevia tv's...anyone think target might carry the olevia CECB

Possibly. But, Target is more likely the market for the two GE models on the list. Target has a branding deal with GE for cheap consumer stuff (cordless telephones, computer mice, $10 CD players). Most of it says "Imported for Target" on the back. And the "funky wave-shaped top" (not a box) design of the GE suggests Target stores to me.

DigaDo

03-07-08, 01:43 PM

Rammitinski

03-07-08, 01:45 PM

....and surfing via your Chinese made laptop....Actually,the Lenovo's are rated near the top, and maybe at the top as far as reliability, believe it or not. :)

holl_ands

03-07-08, 03:42 PM

My highly rated 17" WS Laptop was shipped direct from China....it's an HP....

terapin

03-08-08, 03:45 AM

You're right, at first I didn't find any DTV converters on the Walmart pages, but through reading other web pages, I located the links. Radio Shack page does not show the Digital Stream DTX9900 when I do a search on it. Odd, but maybe they haven't gotten enough stock to post it yet... I don't know.

I can guess that there's a lot more that doesn't appear on the web, but others can point out what they find. :)
....

Sincerely,

Bob Diaz

take it from me. do not buy the DTX9900 unless you have no choice. it is not competitive, at least not for the 59 dollars they charge. everything about it stank of cheapness from the poor packaging to the horrible looking and cheap feeling design. the remote is poorly laid out and labeled, open the battery panel and you are greeted with bare circuit board as battery backing:P takes 2 aaa instead of 1 to boot. at least mine only came with a coaxial cable instead of the coax+composite of the zenith. the case is made of plastic instead of metal, and the bare old style led on the front is pretty hideous. i don't think the manual mentions how to get the remote to work with a tv either. at least i didn't find it. there a general lack of polish to the unit/interface. epg is inferior. no sleep feature, no auto off. the picture quality doesn't have any obvious quirks, so it it were much lower priced it wouldn't be so bad. but at the same price as insignia/zenith its a total no go. its the kind of product that can be sold in places like china as off brand, but its lack of polish is unacceptable for us consumer product.

as for pass through, its disappointing these products lack the feature. i just had to resort to a splitter. are there different types of splitter? i just remember a while back when i got it there were different types in the store. mhz range rating or whatever? or does that only matter for cable/net? so far doesn't seem to affect the image quality, its a roof top antenna so the signal takes the hit ok i guess.
rf switch is a no go, forget to switch and the vcr doesn't work anymore which is a bit pointless.

also kinda sad these units have no svideo

rrrrrroger

03-09-08, 05:14 AM

bdfox18doe

03-09-08, 02:22 PM

rrrrrroger

03-10-08, 06:45 AM

They then had to go to the NTIA retailer web site and enter my coupon details and get an approval code. After getting the code, they could enter "DTVCREDIT" in the system along with the approval code to credit the coupon against the sale.p so they did not treat it like a Cash or Gift card? DTT900 for a total of $10.69. Unless of course you count I really did pay for the coupon with my tax dollars. I look at these cards as $40 tax rebates.

xpfshost

03-10-08, 12:15 PM

After getting my government cheesebox coupons last week, I decided to go redeem one today. Having already purchased several of these cheeseboxes for test and demo purposes professionally, I decided to buy the Zenith DTT900 for my personal use.
Since HHGregg has it for $49.97 compared to Circuit City for $59.97 and the identical Insignia @ Best Buy for $59.97 as well, I decided to go there. Let me
make it clear, everyone I spoke to there from the two salesmen to the manager were extremely helpful and polite.:)

I first called to verify they had them in stock, the salesman told me they had two, but that he had not seen them.Upon arrival, I casually strolled around for a few minutes looking for them before a salesman offered his assistance. He reported to me they were in the back locked up, and he would have the manager get me one which he did. I spent the next 35 minutes as they sales rep and manger tracked down the company procedures to complete the sale
and find how to enter the coupon into the system. They then had to go to the NTIA retailer web site and enter my coupon details and get an approval code. After getting the code, they could enter "DTVCREDIT" in the system along with the approval code to credit the coupon against the sale. It was simple from there on out, taking a total of 45 minutes from the time I arrived until I left. I'm now the proud owner of the DTT900 for a total of $10.69. Unless of course you count I really did pay for the coupon with my tax dollars.
There was no offer;mention; or attempt whatsoever of the store staff to upsell me to a new Tv. That's good.

Similar experience here. Went to my local CC store and they had 6 Zenith converters left sitting out on a shelf. Tried to pay at the regular checkout line, but the girl had no idea how to process the coupon card. She tried swiping it a few times, but nothing happened. She sent me to customer service and the girl there obviously didn't know what to do either. She left for a minute or two to talk to someone in a side room (possibly the manager), came back out, rang up the box, told me that it'll be around $64.xx with tax before the coupon, then she took out a pocket calculator, punched the keys a few times, and said my total with the coupon would be $21.xx with tax. The receipt she printed showed that as well, so I left. They definitely need to streamline their processing of coupons at these places... Got lucky, though. Total time waiting for them to figure out what they were doing was only 10-15 minutes.

xpfshost

w0kie

03-10-08, 02:42 PM

At CC I had to sign sales slips three times. Two for the boxes and one for my credit card. Sales tax was computed on the full retail price.

Whidbey

03-10-08, 02:52 PM

Went to Best Buy, asked where they were, was led to the isle where the video accessories are, they were their on a shelf about 5 feet off the floor, I was handed one, went to pay, cashier scanned UPC, a pop-up came up on his screen prompting him to ask if I had a coupon, I gave him the coupon, he took $40 off price, gave me the card back, I paid, he bagged the box with the receipt and said thank-you. Total elapsed time: about 00:01:30.

xpfshost

03-10-08, 04:00 PM

At CC I had to sign sales slips three times. Two for the boxes and one for my credit card. Sales tax was computed on the full retail price.

I would ask a manager about that. I was only charged sales tax on $19.99. BTW, hooked up the box today and am very pleased. Stunning picture quality compared to before the box...a bunch more channels as well.

xpfshost

bdfox18doe

03-10-08, 04:23 PM

Sales tax was computed on the full retail price.

I paid tax after the $40 discount.:)

BobDiaz

03-10-08, 06:07 PM

Sears, Kmart, Target - what boxes are they selling?

I ask because I have a $10 coupon for those sites, and if I could obtain my Digital-to-Analog converter box there, it would help me save some money.

A quick check of their web pages shows nothing yet.

One person posting here, suggested that if may not be until May when Sears, Target, and Kmart will get their boxes. I don't know if that information is correct or not, but last week when I asked someone at Target about boxes, she knew NOTHING.

Sadly, it appears that a number of boxes are delayed in coming out.

Bob Diaz

wblynch

03-10-08, 08:15 PM

In Los Angeles, Calif I was charged sales tax on the full $59.95.

[Circuit City, Zenith DTT900]

Rammitinski

03-11-08, 01:39 AM

Well, since California is literally bankrupt as a state I can see why they'd be trying to get all the money they can out of the people they can get it out of.

wblynch

03-11-08, 02:48 AM

Sun is always shining in California! Just need a bigger antenna to bring it in.

Johnla

03-11-08, 05:02 AM

Well, since California is literally bankrupt as a state I can see why they'd be trying to get all the money they can out of the people they can get it out of.

Why not, Cook County in IL sure is doing it after Strogers last 'little' raise in the taxes.

bonapart

03-11-08, 06:46 AM

paulred

03-11-08, 08:40 AM

Yesterday one of my local RS stores only had 3 of the DTX9900. So I figured let me try it. They couldn't figure out how to use the coupon card and after 25 minutes, they 'winged it' and I left paying $20.79. Took it home and hooked it up to a 19 year old Zenith (that hasn't had a great picture with cable in years) and it really looked fine.
Yes, the set up was not most common sense set up I've seen and I'm sure there are better boxes out there but for those who aren't willing to get a new tv or like me, just want to have this hanging around in case cable goes out, it worked just fine. With a $29 antennae, it picked up all 10 stations available in my area.
Now if they could just find some good tv programs that I want to watch!

drla

03-11-08, 12:59 PM

Edit

ebo

03-11-08, 01:34 PM

Pardon my ignorance.. I've done some research, but can't seem to locate the information I need.

I purchased the Rjtech RJ-1000ATSC about a year ago, when it was about the only cheap digital ATSC to SD box around. I use it to feed downsampled HDTV channels to my DVD/HDD recorder via the s-video output.

The Rjtech box recently bought the farm. I'm wondering if all of these new consumer boxes are like the Rjtech box. Do any of them have s-video output? Do these boxes tune the HD (downconverted, of course) as well as SD digital off-air channels.

What I mostly need in a replacement box is s-video output and tuning of downcoverted HD channels. Which boxes have these features?All of the CECB-approved boxes convert any ATSC broadcasts to NTSC analog, downconverting HD as necessary. That's what they're for. All are required to have composite video and L/R analog audio outputs, as well as an RF output modulated on channel 3 or 4. S-Video output is optional. There are several specification lists being built up that tell which ones have S-Video, among other things. Here's a link to an Excel file:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13332545&highlight=feature+list#post13332545

BobDiaz

03-11-08, 02:24 PM

...
If you don't care to look at the Excel files, go to this link and see the information laid out in a web page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

P.S. (Off topic) Fellow comrades, I live in the "People's Republic Of California"! :D :D :D

Bob Diaz

DigaDo

03-11-08, 04:03 PM

Johnla,

Back in the old days, before the common use of electricity, folks had to watch TV by candlelight.

Rammitinski

03-11-08, 04:27 PM

Reminds me of that old Three Stooges gag with Moe and Larry dressed as gladiators in ancient Rome:

Moe: "Go turn on the radio."

Larry: "But this is ancient times."

Moe: "Well....this is an ancient radio."

BobDiaz

03-11-08, 09:26 PM

Forgive me, but we are getting really off topic here.

The thread was created to address which converter boxes we found in the major stores as well as issues in buying the box at the store.

For the sake of those who are trying to decide which box I should purchase, please keep the off topic stuff to a minimum....

Bob

bigberts

03-11-08, 10:08 PM

w0en

03-11-08, 10:48 PM

take it from me. do not buy the DTX9900 unless you have no choice. it is not competitive, at least not for the 59 dollars they charge. everything about it stank of cheapness from the poor packaging to the horrible looking and cheap feeling design. the remote is poorly laid out and labeled, open the battery panel and you are greeted with bare circuit board as battery backing:P takes 2 aaa instead of 1 to boot. at least mine only came with a coaxial cable instead of the coax+composite of the zenith. the case is made of plastic instead of metal, and the bare old style led on the front is pretty hideous. i don't think the manual mentions how to get the remote to work with a tv either. at least i didn't find it. there a general lack of polish to the unit/interface. epg is inferior. no sleep feature, no auto off. the picture quality doesn't have any obvious quirks, so it it were much lower priced it wouldn't be so bad. but at the same price as insignia/zenith its a total no go. its the kind of product that can be sold in places like china as off brand, but its lack of polish is unacceptable for us consumer product.

as for pass through, its disappointing these products lack the feature. i just had to resort to a splitter. are there different types of splitter? i just remember a while back when i got it there were different types in the store. mhz range rating or whatever? or does that only matter for cable/net? so far doesn't seem to affect the image quality, its a roof top antenna so the signal takes the hit ok i guess.
rf switch is a no go, forget to switch and the vcr doesn't work anymore which is a bit pointless.

also kinda sad these units have no svideo

Cosmetics aside, the one I have functions well, you can add unscanned channels, although not as easily as with the Insignia/LG. The feature that I like is the fact that the signal meter stays on screen when you call it from the menu, most time out after a while. I had it tuned to a weak station all day and watched the signal levels/ decoding come and go, it locks at 30-ish, seems as sensitive and capable as the rest. Right now functionally it is the #2 box of the 4 I own. The program guide goes all night from the menu, many don't go beyond two hours. Granted it looks a little outdated with the two color round LED but I like having the channel up/down and power on the top of the box. I currently also own the Insignia, RCA 800B and the Magnavox from WalMart for several hours before it developed problems, so I have had a chance to play with them all that are readily available around here in the B&M stores.
For the intended audience like the girl I know that only watches OTA on a 28 year old 23" Zenith console with a bad remote circuit (they use the VCR tuner) with only a channel 3 input, it will extend the life of their set, exactly as intended. Many smaller towns have a RS store that don't have ready access to any "Big Box" outlets.

RedOscar

03-12-08, 12:16 AM

We don't have cable or satellite so the wife has been very concerned about this digital changeover.

I ordered my converter coupons on January 2 and received them March 11. Only Walmart and Radio Shack are reasonably close to home so I decided to buy the first item from one of them. First looked at the DTX9900 at RS. I didn't like the manual, didn't like the AAA remote batteries, nor the 90 day parts warranty. The RS salesman started dissing the Magnavox at Walmart and whatever BestBuy carries from the start. Mostly bragged that the DTX9900 remote could control sound volume. Price was around $60.

Next I went to the Walmart, and all they had was the Magnavox TB100MW9. Price was just under $50. I figured I would start there and purchased sight unseen. The clerks were already up-to-speed on how to handle the coupon. They did charge tax on the full amount, costing me a total of $12.86. Nice manual, AA batteries, and 1 year parts warranty. Hooked it up to a bedroom TV, powered it up and ran the Wizard.

The picture quality was spectacular compared to the snow and blue screens we had been getting in analog for years. It apprears that every local station broadcasting in digital was getting great reception. The wife was very impressed.

If the TB100MW9 doesn't die a premature death, I am very happy with the results. Probably the best $13 I have spent in a long time.

I will surely watch this thread for help on what unit I should get for my second purchase.

Red

rrrrrroger

03-12-08, 06:53 AM

I try to get a Zenith (Circuit City) or Insignia (Best Buy) box, because they both have "strong" tuners than can receive the weak channels.

seatacboy

03-12-08, 12:49 PM

In addition to retailers, will wholesale warehouse clubs offer CECBs to their "members"? Costco, Sam's and BJ's have peddled hundreds of thousands of NTSC-only TVs during recent years even when they and the manufacturers were fully aware of the pending NTSC shutoff.

How about Costco offering a "Kirkland Signature" CECB with best-in-breed RF performance plus S-Video and Smart Antenna?

Better yet, how about Costco offering a non-CECB-crippled "Kirkland Signature" High Definition DTV STB to provide SOTA performance for the thousands of tunerless "HD Monitor" TVs they've peddled to members in recent years? Example: A Costco-branded Samsung 260 equipped with sixth-generation tuner chips for $100

Rammitinski

03-12-08, 02:02 PM

In addition to retailers, will wholesale warehouse clubs offer CECBs to their "members"? Costco, Sam's and BJ's have peddled hundreds of thousands of NTSC-only TVs during recent years even when they and the manufacturers were fully aware of the pending NTSC shutoff.

How about Costco offering a "Kirkland Signature" CECB with best-in-breed RF performance plus S-Video and Smart Antenna?[/I]If Sam's did start selling the Smart Antenna, it would actually be their second go-'round with it. They sold the SA/Sylvania tuner pair together and separately for awhile about 2-3 years back. It was only available through their website, though. (At least the store here never had it in stock.)

DrDon

03-12-08, 02:18 PM

Off topic posts have been removed and warnings sent. Please read forum rules regarding politics.

holl_ands

03-12-08, 04:12 PM

Channel Master CM7000 has made an appearance at Fry's Electronics for $79.99.

Still no news re whether/when they receive CECB coupon eligibility....

terapin

03-13-08, 03:59 AM

You may want to get an RF switch rather than a splitter. I am using one with my Zenith Box and the RF output from a cable box.

See the link below.
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_018W898554110001P

ah, i just rather use a splitter because if you use a vcr its too much trouble to remember to use the switch.
i know theres some signal loss, but its not noticeable at least with my current setup.

holl_ands

03-14-08, 12:12 AM

Why not sell converter boxes at grocery stores:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6540406.html?desc=topstory

bugmenot55

03-14-08, 01:31 AM

Why not sell converter boxes at grocery stores:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6540406.html?desc=topstory
Well I don't know about grocery stores but I wonder how long before they are in the small retail stores like Dollar General and Fred's as a couple of the CECB brands that have been approved like the Apex DT1001, Apex DT1002 as well as these two boxes the Philco TB100HH9 & Philco TB150HH9 are brands you usually see there.

wblynch

03-14-08, 02:19 AM

Pretty soon these will be prizes in the "Claw" machines at the kids' arcade.

bdfox18doe

03-14-08, 07:19 AM

Why not sell converter boxes at grocery stores:
]

Bi-Lo here has been selling Plasma tv's..

beachbum_50

03-14-08, 10:39 AM

Why not at fast food places?

You want fries with that converter box?

I've seen "Redbox" video vending machines in McDonald's here in Colorado.

ebo

03-14-08, 01:02 PM

Why not sell converter boxes at grocery stores:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6540406.html?desc=topstory

Especially if the store offers Double Coupons.

Rammitinski

03-14-08, 03:08 PM

Maybe it'll eventually end up on McDonalds "Dollar Menu".

holl_ands

03-14-08, 03:14 PM

Channel Master CM-7000 is on sale at Frys Electronics for $59.99 thru 18 Mar...but NOT on-line.

doug_malloy

03-16-08, 01:55 AM

I went to our new Super Walmart just to see what was available. (The Super Walmart's electronics section is about double the size of the regular Walmart that it replaced.:)) I was surprised that they only had the crappy Magnavox converter box and did not have the RCA box. When I asked them if they were going to be handling any other brands like was listed on their website, they told me "No". So much for buyer selection in a smaller (27,000 people) town:(. We don't have a Best Buy, Circuit City, or any other outlet that is currently selling the boxes.

I'm really interested in how the Echostar box will fair and who will be selling those when they become available. It'd be great if Kmart would be selling those since that is the only other bigbox store in my town.

medoug.

My friends wife works at WM --- that reason they said NO on other brands is she's found out from some of the other sales firms handling electronics and accessories - all the retailers - Best Buy, Target, WM, Radio Shack, etc... they are all demanding that the NTIA box makers sign into contracts that they will take back ALL unsold, returned, exchanged boxes. That would put 90% of the NTIA box makers out of business - so if you don't like the crappy Magnavox boxes at WM - tough luck, you won't be seeing much else on the shelves at those stores, they are going to single-handedly undermine the entire NTIA sales process.

The NTIA should make selling the boxes through the small retailers more easy and let more mom and pop shops sign up and take the control away from the big box stores who are damaging the sales of the NTIA boxes and could end up causing a severe shortage and availbility problem for those without big box stores nearby, this is going to turn into a disaster and yet again - a waste of taxpayers money.

:eek:

holl_ands

03-16-08, 02:08 AM

n4yqt

03-16-08, 09:59 AM

Today I noticed that the NTIA website has begun listing online and telephone sales of converter boxes. So far only one source is listed for each of these type of transactions. Here is the NTIA link:

https://www.mydtv2009.gov/VendorSearch.aspx

I have noticed that SolidSignal.com has a wider variety of STBs listed. I hope that Channel Master CM-7000 STB is available before the end of May.

n4yqt

03-16-08, 10:07 AM

n4yqt

03-16-08, 10:19 AM

Channel Master CM7000 has made an appearance at Fry's Electronics for $79.99.

Still no news re whether/when they receive CECB coupon eligibility....

It is also listed at SolidSignal.Com , too.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CM-7000

bdfox18doe

03-16-08, 11:54 AM

BTW: As of 14Mar2008 Coupon Summary (by State) spread sheet on NTIA CECB website, coupons have been requested for only $308 Mil out of first $890 Mi increment........

Holl, please provide that link, I'm blind for some reason and I'm sure others would like to see that easily.

hphase

03-16-08, 12:32 PM

This may sound like a stupid, ill-informed post, but WHERE can I find an RCA DTA-800B tuner? I've scoured the posts and searched on line, but no luck. On-line searching even found a link offering to sell me a toilet seat!

Walmart no longer sells them, and I haven't found any other place to purchase one. Are they even available anymore? (I'm serious!)

holl_ands

03-16-08, 01:22 PM

Holl, please provide that link, I'm blind for some reason and I'm sure others would like to see that easily.
Pull up the NTIA's CECB Approved List:
https://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm
At the top, click on "INFO" and then "Coupon Statistics".
You have to multiply number of coupons by $40 (duh....)

holl_ands

03-16-08, 01:30 PM

Sears has the Sylvania STB

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05757778000P?keyword=digital+box
"Temporarily Out of Stock for Delivery"

As Sears says further down, it's the Magnavox TB100MG9.
NTIA CECB List says this model has RF Pass Thru, unlike
the Magnavox TB100MW9 that has been available thus far.

There may or may not be other differences between these two models....
[Or maybe the CECB List is wrong and it may not have Pass Thru.....]

rec630

03-16-08, 06:41 PM

Many people aren't going to actually think about buying until just before/after Feb2009.

BTW: As of 14Mar2008 Coupon Summary (by State) spread sheet on NTIA CECB website,
coupons have been requested for only $308 Mil out of first $890 Mil increment.....
and second (OTA only) increment of $510 Mil may or may not be needed....
but nonetheless, some in Congress talk about adding more....

I wish they would talk about extending the coupon dates beyond 90 days. It seems as it is many coupons will be expired before a number of the boxes are available e.g. one that does analog pass-through, although I realize everyone will not want that feature.

BobDiaz

03-16-08, 09:36 PM

Brief Summery Of The Different Boxes:
As Of March 16, 2008

Best Buy:
Insignia NS-DXA1, SKU: 8624081 $59.99:
(Same as the Zenith model DTT900.)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8624081&st=DTV+Tuner&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1199495190393

Circuit City:
Zenith DTT 900, $59.99:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Zenith-Digital-to-Analog-TV-Tuner-DTT900/sem/rpsm/oid/204154/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Sears/KMART:
Sylvinia? (Magnavox), Sears item# 05757778000 Mfr. model# TB100MG9, $49.99:
Temporarily out of stock for delivery
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05757778000P?keyword=digital+box

Target:
Target does not show any DTV Converters in stock, but I believe that they should have some coming in the next few weeks or months.

Radio Shack:
Zenith DTT 900, 15-148, $59.99:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3006502

Digital Stream DTX9900, 15-149, $59.99
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-digital-stream-dtx9900-digital-to-analog-converter-box--pi-3043012.html

Walmart:
Magnavox TB100MW9, $49.87:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8283870

RCA DTA800, $49.87:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8343230

Any additions or corrections to this list are welcome...

Bob Diaz

holl_ands

03-16-08, 10:14 PM

Although Walmart website allows searching by zipcode to check stock for Magnavox box,
it says RCA DTA-800 is not available either on-line or in stores....

Frys Electronics (Western states plus GA, TX, WA, IL, IN) carries Channel Master CM-7000:
http://shop2.outpost.com/ac/storelocator/index.jsp;jsessionid=eiG1UFk3vX1SBWIJGeN+xQ**.node2

HHGregg (wide swath from Chicago to Atlanta) carries Zenith DTT900:
http://www.hhgregg.com/storeLocator.asp?SID=4D4D67B6648246F7BF60935761CE888C

holl_ands

03-18-08, 03:54 PM

H.E. Butt Grocery (in TEXAS) will reportedly start selling converter boxes
on 1 April...model(s) unknown.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2008/03/10/daily43.html

DJ99

03-18-08, 06:29 PM

I noticed the local Meifer discount store is selling the Philco Converter Box - TB100HH9

DJ99

03-18-08, 06:29 PM

I noticed the local Meifer discount store is selling the Philco Converter Box - TB100HH9

Sorry, that's Meijer

bdfox18doe

03-18-08, 07:29 PM

Brief Summery Of The Different Boxes:
Any additions or corrections to this list are welcome...Bob Diaz

HHGregg:
Zenith DTT-900 $49.99

seatacboy

04-09-08, 09:27 AM

The major stores I could think of are: Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears, Target, Radio Shack and Walmart.........

Sears:
Sears does not show any DTV Converters in stock, but I believe that they should have some coming in the next few weeks.

Target:
Target does not show any DTV Converters in stock, but I believe that they should have some coming in the next few weeks......

Sign Up for the CECB program ended March 31, 2008 (https://www.ntiadtv.gov/). The most recent CECB National Retailer List (https://www.dtv2009.gov/VendorSearch.aspx) excludes Sears, Target, and K-Mart.

I wonder if these national retailers, and regional retailers such as Shopko and Fred Meyer, actually signed up for the NTIA program and are awaiting certification. Perhaps some of these merchants won't participate in the CECB coupon program after all.

dbsc

04-09-08, 01:40 PM

Sign Up for the CECB program ended March 31, 2008 (https://www.ntiadtv.gov/).

I think you may have misread:

Between January 1, 2008, and March 31, 2009, U.S. households can request up to two coupons while supplies last, worth $40 each, to be used towards the purchase of up to two coupon-eligible converter boxes (CECB).

TalkingRat

04-09-08, 02:17 PM

dbsc, seatacboy is referring to the deadline for retailers to be NTIA certified to sell CECBs.

Sears, K-Mart, Target were on the certified retailers list, and are no longer there. I didn't see Amazon there at all, but they were originally listed as a partner. These stores all sell SlingMedia, so perhaps they will resurface this summer with the TR-40.

kousikb

04-09-08, 03:15 PM

When I do retailer search in NY-NJ area, PC Richard & Son came up. Have to call them up to see which converter box they have.
Edit: Tried to call PC Richard & Son, they are totally clueless on this, although they are listed in the approved retailer list. I was on holdfor about 15 min, and then I gave up.

I also noticed that B&H Video is also listed, but their site doesn't list any approved CECB box. There is one Coby DTV-100 listed as "New coming soon" for $79.95. But the box supposedly have component out digital coax output. So I doubt whether it will be coupon eligible. The coby DTV-100 link is: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/494788-REG/Coby_DTV100_DTV_100_ATSC_SD_Set_Top.html

holl_ands

04-09-08, 07:37 PM

Latest update (4Apr08) to Participating Retailers list:
https://www.ntiadtv.gov/info.cfm

annielov

04-10-08, 04:14 AM

Has anyone out there bought the Zenith from Circuit City? If so, are you satisfied with it?

wh5916

04-10-08, 07:03 AM

Has anyone out there bought the Zenith from Circuit City? If so, are you satisfied with it?

If your ears aren't sensitive to the left channel audio issue, then I think you'll be happy. It's a marvelous value for the money otherwise.

wblynch

04-10-08, 10:47 AM

Has anyone out there bought the Zenith from Circuit City? If so, are you satisfied with it?

I bought one from Circuit City and am very happy with it.

-----------

I think some people are expecting too much from a $20 (after rebate) device.

These aren't intended as hi-fidelity, hi-definition home theater tuners. On a typical old TV they work really well.

If people are so worried about using it to feed a home theater with surround sound they should step up and buy a proper tuner. I have seen full HD tuners with component or HDMI video and optical audio for under $100.

kmullen

04-10-08, 05:20 PM

FCC Fines Retailers, Manufacturers For DTV Violations
TOP STORY -- Although this morning's scheduled meeting on the subject was canceled, the Federal Communications Commission today approved more than $6 million worth of enforcement orders related to the digital television transition. Specifically, the agency issued seven Notices of Apparent Liability (NAL) for violations of its DTV labeling requirements (fining Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Target and others) and fingered Polaroid and Proview Technology for violations of its V-Chip rules. The largest single fine of $1.27 million was levied against manufacturer Syntax-Brillian for digital tuner rule violations.

pestocat

04-10-08, 06:37 PM

Has anyone heard when the DTV Converter boxes with bypass feature will be available in the stores. I believe the EchoStar TR-40 units will be available June? I haven't heard on any of the others. I have one Zenith DTT900 (no bypass feature) and very happy with the performance.

DigaDo

04-10-08, 06:47 PM

Annielov,

I am pleased with my Zenith (of February 2008 manufacture) purchased yesterday at Circuit City. I use mine on a RCA CRT TV in a bedroom. I have my Zenith set to mono, use the RF connection to the TV, with an inexpensive RCA ANT111 indoor antenna. I am currently recieving 22 channels with the Zenith.

wh5916

04-10-08, 07:01 PM

I bought one from Circuit City and am very happy with it.

-----------

I think some people are expecting too much from a $20 (after rebate) device.

These aren't intended as hi-fidelity, hi-definition home theater tuners. On a typical old TV they work really well.

If people are so worried about using it to feed a home theater with surround sound they should step up and buy a proper tuner. I have seen full HD tuners with component or HDMI video and optical audio for under $100.

In this day and time, electronics being as advanced as they are, decent audio should be a given, even for a $60.00 tuner.

I have a 14" RCA stereo televison, purchased from Wal-Mart two years ago for $85.00, with better audio performance than the Zenith converter.

If LG had a problem designing decent audio into the converter, then they should have released the product with monaural sound only.

annielov

04-10-08, 07:28 PM

If your ears aren't sensitive to the left channel audio issue, then I think you'll be happy. It's a marvelous value for the money otherwise. What is the left channel audio issue? I'm not quite electronic savoy! Thanks!

annielov

04-10-08, 07:36 PM

I bought one from Circuit City and am very happy with it.

-----------

I think some people are expecting too much from a $20 (after rebate) device.

These aren't intended as hi-fidelity, hi-definition home theater tuners. On a typical old TV they work really well.

If people are so worried about using it to feed a home theater with surround sound they should step up and buy a proper tuner. I have seen full HD tuners with component or HDMI video and optical audio for under $100.I have 2 TV's. One is 16 years old & the other is 10-11 yrs. Would be nice to own a home theater system, but I'm on a very small fixed income. If I could afford a home theater system, I would own HDTV's & wouldn't have to purchase a converter. Thanks to you & everyone who replied!!

Rammitinski

04-10-08, 08:08 PM

Rammitinski

04-10-08, 08:13 PM

Rammitinski

04-10-08, 08:22 PM

What is the left channel audio issue? I'm not quite electronic savoy! Thanks!It's a "chirping" or "screeching" noise sometimes heard in the left channel during certain programming. I'll let others explain it in more detail, since I don't actually have the box. It apparently can be avoided if you have RCA inputs on your TV, and set the Zenith tuner to mono, they use a y-connector from the right channel output of the box to the TV's L&R inputs. But if your TV's are that old, they might not have RCA audio inputs.

wh5916

04-10-08, 08:52 PM

What is the left channel audio issue? I'm not quite electronic savoy! Thanks!

Annie, the link below is for a zipped file that I prepared and uploaded several weeks ago, containing a very brief clip recorded off of the Zenith converter. There are two audio files inside of the folder--one is left channel, and one is right channel. When played back through reasonably good quality speakers, the difference between the left channel and the right channel should be very noticeable, unless you have any sort of high frequency hearing loss (this indeed can make it inaudible). The left channel contains a very high-pitched annoying interference that you won't hear in the right channel.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?yuvynylztuv

TalkingRat

04-10-08, 09:02 PM

It was really bad this morning, ten times worse than last night, and now, tonight, NBC news has no chirp. *Fingers crossed.*

vchristianman

04-14-08, 01:47 PM

I know some one who works at kmart and they told me that they received instructions last week about the dtv converter boxes and how to ring them up at the register. They said that kmart would be carrying the Magnavox TB-100MG9 converter box. They have them in stock yet. Does any one know if the Magnavox TB-100MG9 is even available yet? I read some where that it would be available this month (April) but I don't know a specific date.

Rammitinski

04-14-08, 03:46 PM

I don't think anyone knows for sure yet.

dbsc

04-14-08, 05:05 PM

Got my coupons. The letter came with a sheet listing models and retailers and other info. Not sure if someone else has already posted the image.

seatacboy

04-19-08, 08:33 PM

dbsc

04-19-08, 10:00 PM

TB100MG9 is a Magnavox. Sounds like they OEMed it.

seatacboy

04-19-08, 11:27 PM

TB100MG9 is a Magnavox. Sounds like they OEMed it. Magnavox TB100MW9 at Wal*Mart (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8283870)
Magnavox TB100MW9 at Magnavox.com (http://www.magnavox.com/index.cfm?event=main&cat_id=1&subcat_id=7&product=163)
Sylvania TB100MG9 isn't listed at Sylvania.com (http://www.sylvaniaconsumerelectronics.com/index.php)
Philco TB100HH9 doesn't seem to have a web site either.

annielov

04-20-08, 06:14 AM

We have Meijer stores in our area. They told me that they had a few Philco converter boxes in & are expecting more in mid May along with 2 other brands, but didn't know which ones. Walmart got a new shipment in of the Magnavox, but are not selling the RCA. I don't want the Magnavox after reading about it & everyone else is out of the other boxes. We have all the major stores in my immediate area, but they are out of the boxes. I'm hoping I can find a really good one before my coupons expire..............May 28 or I'm sh** out of luck, 'cause I can't afford a new TV or cable or satellite.:)

stpinindy

04-20-08, 08:52 AM

Don't settle, if need be buy online and pay the shipping. My microgem was under $30 with shipping, if it lasts thats cheap considering the channels and good picture I get. Satellite costs that much every month.

DigaDo

04-20-08, 11:30 AM

Annielov,

Circuit City sells the Zenith. In my area (Portland Oregon) it seems that the Zenith sells out at the CC stores every few days. Within a few days new stock comes in and sells out within a few days.

On the Circuit City website one may check the stock in any given store at any given time. As soon as I found that my nearest CC had restocked I headed up there finding around thirty Zeniths in stock.

I'm very pleased with my Zenith.

annielov

04-21-08, 07:20 AM

I am, seriously, considering the Zenith, but am hoping I can find something else with my second coupon before it expires.

vchristianman

04-21-08, 03:13 PM

Kmart has the Magnavox TB100MG9 digital to analog converter with analog pass through. The price is $49.99.

hooskerdoo

04-23-08, 02:41 PM

Kmart has the Magnavox TB100MG9 digital to analog converter with analog pass through. The price is $49.99.

I did not see it on their web site. Only a link to the Sears Sylvania with same model number.

BobDiaz

04-25-08, 12:38 AM

Sears Roebuck & Company stores offer the Sylvania TB100MG9 (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05757778000P?keyword=tv+converter+box&sLevel=0), a Funai-sourced CECB featuring analog pass-through. Bob, perhaps you could edit the original post to include this on the list?

Are any major retailers known to be selling the Sansonic FT-300A?

Funny, but the link doesn't work, nor could I find any DTV Converters under Sears. I may be using the wrong search terms
or Sears doesn't use logical keys.

If anyone can find the correct link, please let me know...

Bob Diaz

Bob's Technical Comments, Audio Podcast
http://web.mac.com/bobdiaz/Site/Podcast/Podcast.html

dattier

04-25-08, 01:16 AM

If anyone can find the correct link, please let me know..
They must have taken it down. I'd seen it there twice before but can't find it now either.

10ACTony

04-26-08, 05:09 PM

Wehrung

04-27-08, 12:12 AM

Target clerks remain vague about converters, but I called corporate "guest relations" and was told only that shelf date is May 18, when they have modified checkout software to accept the government coupons. The supervisor I talked to was adamant that the company would not reveal what brand(s) were to be carried until May 18, and whomever buys them for Target would not respond to customer inquiries.

They really seem to care about out business, don't they?

mosquito

04-27-08, 12:36 AM

I have been told by an unnamed source that Target will carry the GE boxes.

seatacboy

04-27-08, 01:39 AM

I have been told by an unnamed source that Target will carry the GE boxes.That's a good guess since Target's selection of video accessories is mostly sourced from GE/Jasco. Curiously, Target stores in my area don't stock ANY TV antennas, which is another reason I've questioned whether they will sell ANY CECBs.

FYI General Electric doesn't actually make the "GE brand" video accessories. The GE brand is licensed to Jasco Products (http://www.jascoproducts.com/).

sneaky snooper

04-28-08, 12:03 AM

I got the Magnavox TB-100MG9 from Sears earlier tonight. They do have 'em, and I'm still trying to figure out the analog pass through. It doesn't seem like they came up with an easy way to do this.

dattier

04-28-08, 11:31 AM

I got the Magnavox TB-100MG9 from Sears earlier tonight. They do have 'em, and I'm still trying to figure out the analog pass through. It doesn't seem like they came up with an easy way to do this.

Isn't it in the manual? The Philco TB100HHB has an almost identical manual to the Magnavox TB100MW9 except for the parts about analog pass-through, so perhaps the instructions in the Philco model's manual (which is downloadable from Funai (http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf)) will help.

Malouff

04-28-08, 12:57 PM

E-A-G-L-E-S

04-28-08, 12:59 PM

I thought, obviously wrongly, that these were just for people still using antennas, no?

johnpost

04-28-08, 01:20 PM

I thought, obviously wrongly, that these were just for people still using antennas, no?

This area is for Converter Boxes Sold In The Major Stores.

The CECB boxes (coupon eligible converter boxes) will only work with an antenna signal.

There are converter boxes (that are not CECB) which would have other functions like being able to use cable.

E-A-G-L-E-S

04-28-08, 01:27 PM

I'm even more confused...but thank you for answering my question.

Malouff

04-28-08, 01:29 PM

Here is a list of of stores with four (4) or more locations
Listed in the NTIA Participating Store list as of 4/25/2008

CountOf
DBA_Name............Business Name
5112.............RADIOSHACK
3520.............WAL-MART STORES, INC.
1388.............KMART CORPORATION
964...............BEST BUY CO., INC.
685...............CIRCUIT CITY STORES, INC.
291...............HEB GROCERY COMPANY LP
215...............PAMIDA STORES OPERATING CO., LLC
192...............MEIJER
176...............BJ'S WHOLESALE CLUB INC.
91................GREGG APPLIANCES INC
82................CWI, INC. (Camping World)
54................PC RICHARD & SON LONG ISLAND CORPORATION
44................ABC APPLIANCE, INC
21................HANDY TV, INC
21................MAGIC MART
17................KARL'S TV INC.
15................BIG SANDY FURNITURE INC
15................AMERICAN TV & APPLIANCE OF MADISON, INC.
15................RC WILLEY HOME FURNISHINGS
11................COWBOY MALONEY APPLIANCE, AUDIO, VIDEO CENTERS, INC.
11................KEN CRANES MAGNAVOX CITY INC
9.................CROSSROADS WIRELESS, LLC
9.................A-1 HOME APPLIANCE CENTER, INC
9.................HOWARD'S APPLIANCES, INC.
9.................INTERBOND CORPORATION OF AMERICA
7.................VANN'S
7.................STANDARD APPLIANCE, INC
6.................BIG DOG STORE HOLDINGS LLC
6.................BILL'S DISCOUNT FURNITURE INC
5.................STARLIGHT EXPRESS U S C C
4.................ROCKWEILER APPLIANCE & TV, INC.
4.................PAUL'S TV, LLC
4................STAR SATELLITE EXPRESS, INC
4................MARINE CORPS COMMUNITY SERVICES (MCCS)
4................PAUL ROSA INC.

*Number of stores may not be accurate as you have to filter all of the RadioShacks.
When I counted by Business Name I got mostly the same results except for those in Purple.
Another thing with the list is that RadioShack is incosistant will nulls and different store names unlike the others.

seatacboy

04-28-08, 02:05 PM

Here is a list of of stores with four (4) or more locations
Listed in the NTIA Participating Store list as of 4/25/2008

Count Of DBA_ Name............Business Name
5106.............RADIOSHACK
3520.............WAL-MART STORES, INC.
1388.............KMART CORPORATION
964...............BEST BUY CO., INC.
685...............CIRCUIT CITY STORES, INC.
291...............HEB GROCERY COMPANY LP
215...............PAMIDA STORES OPERATING CO., LLC
192...............MEIJER
176...............BJ'S WHOLESALE CLUB INC.
Of the three largest membership-club wholesalers, only BJ's is participating. Sam's Club and Costco Wholesale have peddled hundreds of thousands of NTSC-only TVs in recent years but are refusing to participate in the NTIA CECB program. Technicality: BJ's, Sam's and Costco aren't retailers and don't operate "stores" - they are private clubs operating members-only wholesale warehouses.

Retailers Target and Sears are conspicuously absent from this list, but this may change.

Malouff

04-28-08, 02:32 PM

Of the three largest membership-club wholesalers, only BJ's is participating. Sam's Club and Costco Wholesale have peddled hundreds of thousands of NTSC-only TVs in recent years but are refusing to participate in the NTIA CECB program. Technicality: BJ's, Sam's and Costco aren't retailers and don't operate "stores" - they are private clubs operating members-only wholesale warehouses.

Retailers Target, Sears, and K-Mart are also conspicuously absent from this list, but this may change.K-Mart is on the list with 1388 stores.
However, I think that Sears and K-Mart might have had a joint application under K-Mart.
K-Mart now own Sears as of the 2005 merger.

johnpost

04-28-08, 04:39 PM

I'm even more confused...but thank you for answering my question.

A converter box would change HDTV or SDTV into NTSC video for an analog TV set to view it. That is the usage of the term converter box here.

A converter box (or set top box , STB) could be any device which is external to a TV and converts the signal into something else. This could include a digital or analog cable box from your cable company, a satellite tuner box from your satellite company.

lorak

04-28-08, 06:20 PM

johnpost

04-28-08, 06:36 PM

Hi all, I feel dumb for asking this but I must. I have a DTX 9900 and after hooking it up I can't record anything on my vcr I hooked in antanna in to the converter in and converter out to the vcr. any input would be great.
Thanks

The first thing to check. Have you run the converter box into tv to see if it is working and setup correctly?

Second thing to check. Is the vcr tuned to the same channel (3 or 4) as the converter box is outputting if you are using RF? Or tuned to 0 or AUX if using composite?

firstsig

04-30-08, 06:56 AM

HeavenBound

04-30-08, 02:08 PM

I purchased the Digital Stream DTX9900 at my local Radio Shack last week. It was the only model they were selling and they were sold out the first time I was there, but they got 10 more in the next day. I am very pleased at how easy it was to hook it up and program. I was also able to program the remote to turn on/off and control the volume of my 15 year old RCA TV so I don't have to mess with two separate remotes. I was amazed at the reception. I have an old Radio Shack antenna in my attic and about 35 feet of 300-ohm twin lead between the antenna and the TV so I was expecting I might have to buy some coax and do it right, but the picture was so much better than analog and the DTX9900 even found another station I hadn't been able to get with analog so I'm very pleased.

Does anyone know when the Microprose MPI-500 will be out and who will be selling it? I read on this forum that it is supposed to have analog signal pass thru when the box is off tho that's not indicated on the paper that came with my coupons. Still, I'm interested see a review or two on this box.

Dr.Forbush

05-02-08, 03:30 PM

Instead worrying about an analog passthrough, what about just using an RF "T" and just feed the antena signal to both the box and the TV. Then feed the digital to the digital in line. Or create your own bypass with another RF "T."

What am I missing?

dattier

05-02-08, 06:49 PM

lexus2108

05-02-08, 08:54 PM

Dr. Forbush,

If you split the incoming signal, then each half is 3.5 dB weaker than the original, and that can damage or even kill the reception of weaker signals.

If you use an A-B switch instead of a splitter, then the loss is only slight and it can work, but you have to remember (and get up from your seat if you don't pop for a remote-control A-B switch) to flip the switch every time. Also, if your TV doesn't have A/V inputs, you need to route both back into another A-B switch ahead of your TV's RF input jack.

So if your TV has A/V inputs and you can afford to lose 3.5 dB on every digital channel that you watch, it's a fine solution.

I wonder what a -3.5 dB Would equate to signal loss on the box signal reader display. In other words you get a number 55 from the boxes signal meter. You use the T splitter and what does the meter go down too.

My experience anything lower then 16 to 18 on the G0 magnavox will not give you a watchable picture

dattier

05-02-08, 11:26 PM

I wonder what a -3.5 dB Would equate to signal loss on the box signal reader display. In other words you get a number 55 from the boxes signal meter. You use the T splitter and what does the meter go down too.Seems every one of those displays has a different scale, so it's hard to say.

And Lexus, I never saw an answer from you when I asked this before: whereabout are you located, that you found an MG9 at Sears? The Sears and KMart stores near me (my location is below my name at the left) do not have any CECBs yet, or at least didn't as of Monday, April 28.

wh5916

05-03-08, 06:16 AM

Seems every one of those displays has a different scale, so it's hard to say.

And Lexus, I never saw an answer from you when I asked this before: whereabout are you located, that you found an MG9 at Sears?* The Sears and KMart stores near me (my location is below my name at the left) do not have any CECBs yet, or at least didn't as of Monday, April 28.

Because of Lexus' posting, I stopped at a nearby Sears in Hampton, VA the other day to see what they might have.

They ***almost*** had the Magnavox in stock. By that, I mean that there was a single box on the shelf (where they sell DVD recorders) identifying itself as having a Magnavox converter inside. It was very plain, just brown cardboard with black lettering, and it said something to the effect of "Empty Box for Display Purposes" on the outside. ????? The package did not feel empty--perhaps, inside, there was a mockup version of the converter to be used for display.

There was no shelf tag underneath indicating a price and I didn't bother asking a salesperson if more were in stock, as I'm very undecided about this model.
After searching the rest of the electronics department, to see if a stack of actual converters might have been somewhere else, I left.

SirVette

05-03-08, 06:32 AM

Someone at Sears said they were going to start selling DTV converter boxes on 5-4 , but did not know which one.

SirVette

05-03-08, 06:36 AM

Fry's Electronics
Zenith DTT900

&
Channel Master CM-7000 (S-video)

Evidently I need more posts before I can post the links.

SirVette

05-03-08, 07:02 AM

Someone earlier this year mentioned ordering a DTV tuner. I said there's no need to order one (esp. that early w/o info.) as before it's over the grocery stores may be selling them. :D
HEB Grocery stores are now selling DTV tuners.:D
At least the people on the phone at HEB knew they were selling them but did not know which one (out of stock).

SirVette

05-03-08, 07:07 AM

Fry's Electronics
Zenith DTT900
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/5521770?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

&
Channel Master CM-7000 (S-video)
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/5488779?sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

wfcat

05-04-08, 11:01 AM

My local Kmart is now stocking the Magnavox TB100MG9 for $49.99. I bought one to test. It looks similar to the Magnavox TB100MW9 which is carried by Wal-Mart except that it promises analog pass-through. In that respect it seems similar to the Philco TB100HH9.

lexus2108

05-04-08, 02:03 PM

Seems every one of those displays has a different scale, so it's hard to say.

And Lexus, I never saw an answer from you when I asked this before: whereabout are you located, that you found an MG9 at Sears? The Sears and KMart stores near me (my location is below my name at the left) do not have any CECBs yet, or at least didn't as of Monday, April 28.

PM me for details. I didn't see your first request

Go here first

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:lkT7zr-FeTMJ:www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05757778000P%3FvName%3DComputers%2B%2526%2BEle ctronics%26cName%3DTelevisions%26sbf%3DBrand%26sbv%3DSylvani a+sylvania+TB100MG9&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

Then put in your zip code. It will tell you if any stores have the box near you. If it says AVAILABLE. Then go to that store.

When mine changed from 8 weeks to Available in a few days I went there and they had 8 in stock.

Do not drive to each store and waste time and gas

Hope this helps

lexus2108

05-04-08, 02:07 PM

Because of Lexus' posting, I stopped at a nearby Sears in Hampton, VA the other day to see what they might have.

They ***almost*** had the Magnavox in stock. By that, I mean that there was a single box on the shelf (where they sell DVD recorders) identifying itself as having a Magnavox converter inside. It was very plain, just brown cardboard with black lettering, and it said something to the effect of "Empty Box for Display Purposes" on the outside. ????? The package did not feel empty--perhaps, inside, there was a mockup version of the converter to be used for display.

There was no shelf tag underneath indicating a price and I didn't bother asking a salesperson if more were in stock, as I'm very undecided about this model.
After searching the rest of the electronics department, to see if a stack of actual converters might have been somewhere else, I left.

Look at my other post above. Use the link. This will help you guys from driving to Sears blinded. Do not bother going to a store UNLESS it says Available. This is after you put in zip code.

Pay no intention to the front page with the box picture saying not in stock. It is a cashe link.

just wait till the store gets them in.

I am on the east coast

wh5916

05-04-08, 02:19 PM

Look at my other post above. Use the link. This will help you guys from driving to Sears blinded. Do not bother going to a store UNLESS it says Available. This is after you put in zip code.

Pay no intention to the front page with the box picture saying not in stock. It is a cashe link.

just wait till the store gets them in.

I am on the east coast

For me, it was no big deal. I had last week off from work. Thursday afternoon I was bored, and just wanted to get out for a few minutes...so, what the heck...I went down to our local Sears to see if they had the Magnavox in stock yet.

Not a huge amount of wasted time, as I live just a little over a mile away from that Sears...so no biggie, not even at today's gas prices.

dattier

05-04-08, 06:24 PM

lexus2108

05-04-08, 10:15 PM

Thank you for the link, Lexus2108. It's listed as "available" at a location that had no CECBs of any brand six days ago, but when I tried to reserve one through the form, it came up as unavailable.

The Wal-Mart near me is expecting Magnavox TB-100MG9s in a couple of weeks; we'll see.

If it says available then it is there. Now you can either go to the store or call them. The link is cashed on old info so of course it will not let you buy it online. Your best bet is to go to store.

seatacboy

05-04-08, 10:30 PM

This is a CECB thread and should be moved to the new CECB subforum. Thanks!

dattier

05-05-08, 04:43 PM

Well, now that this thread has been moved to the new subforum ...

I took Lexus2108's advice and went to the Sears store nearby where the MG9 came up as "available." They were not on display but had to be asked for, and they are Magnavox-branded, not Sylvania-branded.

So I asked about returning it, and the time limit is thirty days, which is OK, but here's the really foul part: if the box has been opened, there's a 15% restocking fee. That particular clerk said that if I'm returning it to exchange it for itself but using my coupon, there's no restocking to be done, so he can legitimately waive the fee and refund the full price (thereupon to charge full price with $40 off for the coupon), but he can't promise that anyone else there will treat it the same way.

And what if I don't like it and return it for real? Then I'm out the restocking fee.

Now, in a day when my finances were better I'd gladly have risked the $7.50 restocking fee (plus sales tax on it; I'm sure the refunded sales tax would be calculated on the net refund, which isn't really right, but try arguing with them) for the chance to play with it a couple weeks earlier rather than waiting for them to show up at Wal-Mart. But those days are gone and the potential fee, small as it is, bothers me. Most of the way home I was thinking about turning around and returning it, but I decided to sleep on it.

So now I have an unopened TB-100MG9 in my possession, with the return period ending June 4 and my remaining coupon expiring June 24. My inclination is to keep it unopened for a couple of weeks and hope they'll show up at Wal-Mart as expected, where if I actually don't like it and return it for real, I'll get my full purchase price back.

It's not the money, it's not the principle, it's just that it bugs me so much.

wh5916

05-05-08, 06:00 PM

Well, now that this thread has been moved to the new subforum ...

I took Lexus2108's advice and went to the Sears store nearby where the MG9 came up as "available."* They were not on display but had to be asked for, and they are Magnavox-branded, not Sylvania-branded.

So I asked about returning it, and the time limit is thirty days, which is OK, but here's the really foul part: if the box has been opened, there's a 15% restocking fee.*

So now I have an unopened TB-100MG9 in my possession, with the return period ending June 4 and my remaining coupon expiring June 24.* My inclination is to keep it unopened for a couple of weeks and hope they'll show up at Wal-Mart as expected, where if I actually don't like it and return it for real, I'll get my full purchase price back.

It's not the money, it's not the principle, it's just that it bugs me so much.

I'd return it for a refund, and that policy on the part of Sears came as a genuine shock. They used to be good about taking returns back, with no penalties such as restocking fees. If this is typical for their entire electronics department, I'll think twice before purchasing from them again.

TalkingRat

05-05-08, 06:15 PM

That surprises me, since I think they get to keep the $40 coupon money if you return it.

johnpost

05-05-08, 06:51 PM

That surprises me, since I think they get to keep the $40 coupon money if you return it.

you get store credit only for use on another cecb, at least that is the policy of the coupon program.

TalkingRat

05-05-08, 07:07 PM

lexus2108

05-05-08, 07:10 PM

i was told returns were in full and a store card only

TalkingRat

05-05-08, 07:34 PM

NTIA's FAQs, Question # 256:

Question: If I used the coupon to buy a TV converter box and then return it for credit with the retailer, can I use that credit for any other purchase at the retailer?

Answer: You will not be able to receive cash or credit for the coupon amount, but you can receive cash or credit for any amount you paid out of pocket, if the store policy permits returns or exchanges.

johnied

05-05-08, 08:14 PM

Yes, I was thinking in terms of who gets the $40 if it's an outright return. Someone said it went to the Treasury, but I think the store gets it. So why would they need a restocking fee, when they get $40 plus the product back?

The $40 gets direct deposited almost immediately to the retailer., it
doesnt go back to the treasury. So basically you want an exchange
to keep your value. otherwise the store gets to keep the money from
the govt and can return the box to the mfr.

Coupons not used by expiration time will go back into Treasury and recycled
into the program for further issue.

johnpost

05-05-08, 08:20 PM

did see the following at https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx

16. Can I exchange my TV converter box for another one?
If the retail store permits exchanges, you can exchange the converter you purchased for another coupon-eligible converter box.

NTIA's FAQs, Question # 256:

Question: If I used the coupon to buy a TV converter box and then return it for credit with the retailer, can I use that credit for any other purchase at the retailer?

Answer: You will not be able to receive cash or credit for the coupon amount, but you can receive cash or credit for any amount you paid out of pocket, if the store policy permits returns or exchanges.

I think the above question 256 is speaking of credit towards any item.

I thought at some time I did see it stated as store credit only for another CECB but didn't find that now. The exchange is at least short term store credit.

Then in question 266 they say to keep a record of your coupon number in case of return or exchange.

dattier

05-06-08, 12:51 AM

Thanks for the responses, folks. Sorry if the formatting here comes out wrong, but I couldn't get the Multi-Quote links to do anything.

I'd return it for a refund, and that policy on the part of Sears came as a genuine shock. They used to be good about taking returns back, with no penalties such as restocking fees. If this is typical for their entire electronics department, I'll think twice before purchasing from them again.

The more I've thought about it, the more I've decided to leave it unopened and wait to see if Wal-Mart gets them in as expected. If Wal-Mart does, I'll return this one to Sears. A nervier person than I might open this one, try it out, buy another at Wal-Mart with the coupon, and then take the one from Wal-Mart (still unopened) to Sears for a refund as if it were the one purchased at Sears; but being more nervous than nervy, I could never pull that off.

Perhaps if I were more confident about keeping it, I'd feel differently. But if it overheats like the MW9 I won't want to keep it, and considering that the remote does not turn the TV on and off and therefore anyone using it would need to have two remotes at hand (a problem for someone in my household), I'm not very likely to keep it if a model with analog pass-through (a feature I want far far more than I need) and a remote that switches the TV on and off is available before my remaining coupon expires. However, the return period for this MG9 purchase ends sooner, so I'll have to decide by then.

Yes, I was thinking in terms of who gets the $40 if it's an outright return. Someone said it went to the Treasury, but I think the store gets it. So why would they need a restocking fee, when they get $40 plus the product back?

They wouldn't, but apparently it's store policy on electronics, with no exception for CECB's. Besides, I didn't use the coupon, so in the scenario under discussion (where I don't like it and actually return it, rather than doing a pro-forma return to repurchase it with the coupon), they wouldn't be getting $40 from the US Treasury.

At one point I thought I would need three CECB's and would have to buy one at full price without a coupon anyway. If that were still the case, the situation would also be different, as I would have been more likely to keep this MG9 unless it turned out defective.

seatacboy

05-06-08, 01:03 AM

So I asked about returning it, and the time limit is thirty days, which is OK, but here's the really foul part: if the box has been opened, there's a 15% restocking fee.* That particular clerk said that if I'm returning it to exchange it for itself but using my coupon, there's no restocking to be done, so he can legitimately waive the fee and refund the full price (thereupon to charge full price with $40 off for the coupon), but he can't promise that anyone else there will treat it the same way.

And what if I don't like it and return it for real?* Then I'm out the restocking fee.

Now, in a day when my finances were better I'd gladly have risked the $7.50 restocking fee (plus sales tax on it; I'm sure the refunded sales tax would be calculated on the net refund, which isn't really right, but try arguing with them) for the chance to play with it a couple weeks earlier rather than waiting for them to show up at Wal-Mart.* But those days are gone and the potential fee, small as it is, bothers me.* Most of the way home I was thinking about turning around and returning it, but I decided to sleep on it.

So now I have an unopened TB-100MG9 in my possession, with the return period ending June 4 and my remaining coupon expiring June 24.* My inclination is to keep it unopened for a couple of weeks and hope they'll show up at Wal-Mart as expected, where if I actually don't like it and return it for real, I'll get my full purchase price back.

It's not the money, it's not the principle, it's just that it bugs me so much. From its founding in 1886 until the turn of the 21st century, Sears Roebuck was known for having very consumer-friendly return policies. Throughout my growing-up years, my parents had many Sears Kenmore appliances, Sears furniture, and Sears Silvertone televisions - they were particularly impressed at how Sears would stand behind their products. No longer.

Wal*Mart is much better in that regard. I returned two defective Magnavox TB100MW9s to Wal*Mart for a full refund, no hassles and no silly restocking fee.

lexus2108

05-06-08, 02:29 AM

From its founding in 1886 until the turn of the 21st century, Sears Roebuck was known for having very consumer-friendly return policies. Throughout my growing-up years, my parents had many Sears Kenmore appliances, Sears furniture, and Sears Silvertone televisions - they were particularly impressed at how Sears would stand behind their products. No longer.

Wal*Mart is much better in that regard. I returned two defective Magnavox TB100MW9s to Wal*Mart for a full refund, no hassles and no silly restocking fee.
I bought a major appliance from them and in 6 months it broke because of faulty install. They wanted to charge me $400 to install a new one. I was like it broke because of you. They wanted to give me 50% and that is all. I fought it with CC and won. Very bad customer service.

rampart51

05-06-08, 08:59 AM

Just a comment about returning these boxes.

I went to Radio Shack and asked what the return policy was. In line with the rules, they said that they would keep the 40.00 (coupon) and will not refund it.

I was concerned about the box working properly on my set.

So what I did was I bought the box WITHOUT the coupon. Made sure it worked. Then I returned the box to Radio Shack and got my full credit. I then bought the box using my coupon.

A little time consuming but at least I knew the box worked on my set.

One other note. They returned the coupon to me which I thought was odd. What is keeping me from using it again?

wh5916

05-06-08, 09:30 AM

JN_owensboro

05-06-08, 09:50 AM

Just as an update for those who want to know:

Our KMart on the west side of town (Owensboro, KY) has the TB100MG9 in stock. Had a pretty good number of them, too. I don't know about the mid-town store yet, haven't been there, but they usually carry a better selection than west side store does.

I have two of the MW9s, and they work great. Still not fond of the remote, but hey, I'm getting used to it.

If Wal-Mart is planning to start carrying this, maybe I'll wait. They'll probably beat KMart on price.

One question: When the new Echostar/Sling DTVPal comes out, where will those be available? If anyone knows, I'd appreciate the info. That looks like it's going to be a nifty little box, too.

dattier

05-09-08, 04:20 PM

May have solved my restocking fee problem: the nearest KMart had three MG9's on the shelf and I bought one. But first I made sure that they understood about exchanging it for itself to use the coupon if I like it and that there will be no restocking fee if I don't like it and return it for real.

Malouff

05-14-08, 03:57 AM

I was wondering if anyone that goes to ABC Warehouse can find out if the GXI INTERNATIONAL LLC 1010D (http://www.abcwarehouse.com/product_catalog/pc_proddetails.asp~prod_id~20740~active_tab~) for $59.00 is the AccessHD 1010D and coupon eligible so I can add to my price list in my EPG thread.

I have been sent a Private Message and it is the AccessHD and coupon eligible.

jtbell

05-15-08, 04:33 PM

My nearest Radio Shack (in Laurens SC) is selling the Philco TB100HH9. I noticed them for the first time today. They weren't there three days ago.

DITTOTEX

05-15-08, 04:49 PM

My nearest Radio Shack (in Laurens SC) is selling the Philco TB100HH9. I noticed them for the first time today. They weren't there three days ago.

Saw on another thread that you were going to by the Philco TB100HH9. let us know how much
it cost. There is a wide price range on this box.

jtbell

05-15-08, 07:45 PM

The price at Radio Shack is $54.99 before coupon and tax.

JN_owensboro

05-18-08, 01:34 AM

I bought an MG9 last week and like it pretty well. The analog passthrough is nice, but it could be easier to access. Oh well. It'll be the box I'll get for the last 2 TVs in the house, unless the new DTVPal is available soon.

I was glad to see that Magnavox (actually Funai, I guess) ditched the power switch on the side, along with the standby light. Makes it somewhat more "bedroom friendly," if that makes any sense.

Kiri

05-18-08, 06:16 AM

Yesterday, Target claimed they would have their converter boxes
available on 5/18 (today). Previously they said they would have
two GE models - one at $59, and one at $49.

But as of last night, they state they will have the $59 GE and
something called Venturer.

I found an online manual for Venturer -- it doesn't seem
to have any EPG at all -- just an info button for the
current channel/current program.

Does anyone else have info about the Venturer?

Malouff

05-18-08, 11:48 AM

I have not seen any reviews.

You can also look for information on the Winegard RC-DT09, they look like the same CECB.

The remote looks like it does not offer a EPG as you say just info.

It does look like the Falcon Digital's (Sansonic, Gridlink, etc.,) remote
Same design - both with 27 buttons in the same layout.
But the buttons have different names and functions.

Sammer

05-18-08, 04:49 PM

I have not seen any reviews.

You can also look for information on the Winegard RC-DT09, they look like the same CECB.

The Winegard does appear to be a clone. It's manual is available online (ezdigital.com) and on the last page "VENTURER ELECTRONICS (“VENTURER”) makes the following limited warranty."...

Malouff

05-18-08, 05:43 PM

I am surprised on how many CECB's are clones, it looks like a bunch of different ones but it is just mostly different cases/brands.

Most of these CECB's are also using the same tuner's and SoC's just a few changes to the firmware. Zenith and Digital Stream for example share a lot of the same internal parts but look and behave different because of the firmware.

I been grouping most of them according to EPG and Menu Style.
Some however do have a external differences for example the Tivax and MicroGEM but I think they share the same firmware or slightly modified.

Kiri

05-19-08, 07:14 AM

Target (Beaverton, Oregon) got its converter boxes today.

As they stated - one is the Venturer for $47.99.

The other is the GE -- but at $49.99 rather than $59.99! This is
the GE model that allows a smart antenna.

I bought the GE for the full EPG it offers. I'll post a review in a separate thread.

SallyL

05-30-08, 12:49 PM

Hi all, I feel dumb for asking this but I must. I have a DTX 9900 and after hooking it up I can't record anything on my vcr I hooked in antanna in to the converter in and converter out to the vcr. any input would be great.
Thanks

You're not dumb. I read on a government website that your tv and your vcr will BOTH need digital tuners. I also read in a consumer reports website that you will no longer be able to program multiple stations from your vcr. You have to set the station manually from the converter box. Instead of buying a converter box, I am looking for an inexpensive dvd player/recorder that has the digitial tuner. Good luck to both of us.

HeavenBound

05-31-08, 09:04 PM

Lorak,

I had the same problem two nights ago. I ended up unpluging the antenna in from the converter box and plugging it directly into the VCR. That's the only way I could get it to record the show I wanted to record.

I know it would have worked with the converter box if I could have set the VCR to record channel 3, but it wouldn't let me do that - just L1 or L2.
Of course it recorded in analog not digital and that won't work after they cut off analog signals.

In the past I have pre-programmed the VCR to record channel 3 and it worked just fine, but this time I didn't have time to preprogram the VCR.

Just as you have to set the TV to channel 3 or 4, you also have to set your VCR to channel 3 or 4. You CAN NOT set the VCR to the channel you want to record.

johnpost

05-31-08, 10:21 PM

Lorak,

I had the same problem two nights ago. I ended up unpluging the antenna in from the converter box and plugging it directly into the VCR. That's the only way I could get it to record the show I wanted to record.

If your converter box does not have analog pass through or it wasn't set to do it and you were trying to tape an analog channel then that is what you would have to do.

I know it would have worked with the converter box if I could have set the VCR to record channel 3, but it wouldn't let me do that - just L1 or L2.
Of course it recorded in analog not digital and that won't work after they cut off analog signals.

The converter box converts digital to analog. Your VCR takes analog input so that setup will work until your vcr dies.

In the past I have pre-programmed the VCR to record channel 3 and it worked just fine, but this time I didn't have time to preprogram the VCR.

Just as you have to set the TV to channel 3 or 4, you also have to set your VCR to channel 3 or 4. You CAN NOT set the VCR to the channel you want to record.

To be clear you can use the RF coax for VCR input with the VCR tuned to 3 or 4 (whatever your converter box is set to output) or use the composite video (yellow) along with the audio for input with VCR set to L1 or L2 or 00 whatever is the method for your VCR.

JN_owensboro

06-01-08, 01:46 AM

My mother gave me her coupons yesterday and told me to buy whatever boxes suit my fancy. I had intended to get two more Magnavoxes (preferably the MG9, which I bought recently and like), but both KMarts were out. The Radio Shack in the same shopping center as the mid-town KMart doesn't carry ANY of the boxes in stock. You have to order. Forget that.

And Wal-Mart has been out -- OUT -- of the MW9 for several weeks now. Waiting for the MG, I presume? Nobody knows. Or at least they won't say.

So, since my brother works for Target (in Indianapolis), and he had informed me of the GE and Venturer availability there, I decided to try there.

BINGO!

I bought one of each.

To my great surprise, I like the Venturer more than I do the GE. An EPG on the Venturer would be nice, but I can look up what's on using my laptop, so no biggie there. Channel-surfing is dead slow using the GE, lightning-quick using the Venturer. I especially like the Venturer's automatic aspect ratio setting. Very nice.

My one beef with the Venturer is the remote. I've had car stereo remotes that were bigger! The most-often-used buttons, though, are sized and placed well, so even though it's tiny overall, it isn't difficult to use.

The GE remote is nice, but the box is a disappointment otherwise. Picture quality is poor when I zoom the picture in (not many of our stations broadcast 16:9 more than an hour or two daily), and the tuner is really finicky. Our weak-sister ABC station (the tower of which is located almost 25 miles due west of my location) took a lot of antenna-tweaking to bring in consistently without dropouts. Thank God I didn't (and don't) have issues pulling down the other local stations, all of which are about the same distance but NW of me, because I'd probably have pulled out what's left of my hair.

If I can get the GE properly dialed-in tomorrow, I may keep it, but I have found that I really prefer the Venturer with all things considered. If I do take the GE back to Target, I know what I'll be exchanging it for!

10frog

06-05-08, 08:56 AM

As of yesterday, RS is selling the Digital Stream DTX9950 (similar to 9900 but with pass through). Separate forums here on DTX9900 and DTX9950. If not in stock at store, you can have them order it and ship to home/store at no additional cost.

rdavidd

06-05-08, 12:26 PM

The Venturer STB7766G Digital-to-Analog Converter Box is sold by Target. Neither the outside of the box nor the instructions nor the Venturer web site reveals that this unit will not receive sub channels. For example my local PBS broadcasts two signals on channel 31 (one as 31-1 and second different programing on 31-2). This unit only receives 31-1. I know that 31-2 is there because I have a second converter box from BestBuy that gets it (Insignia NS-DXA1). Also, the tuner in the Venturer is poor. Whereas the Insignia gets a "good" signal (slightly into the "good" third of the total rating area - probably about a 70% rating --- I'm a long ways from my PBS station), the Venturer gets just to the middle of the signal strength band - a 50% rating. This unit was cheap; only $48, but is only suitable if you NEVER expect any sub channels in your area AND you are very close to your stations broadcast towers with very powerful signals.

JN_owensboro

06-05-08, 07:04 PM

My Venturer boxes (I did end up returning the GE) are receiving subchannels just fine, rdavidd. We have, in order, in my area of NW Kentucky, the following channels, all out of the Evansville, IN market:

7-1 ... FOX

9-1 ... PBS HD
9-2 ... PBS

14-1 ... NBC
14-2 ... NBC Weather
14-3 ... The Tube (well, at least it was)

25-1 ... ABC
25-2 ... Weather/Radar

31-1 ... KET 1
31-2 ... KET 2
31-3 ... KET Kentucky Channel/HD
31-4 ... KET Educational Channel

44-1 ... CBS
44-2 ... MyNetworkTV

And, if I aim my second antenna properly, I can get channels (including subchannels) from Bowling Green, KY, which is 70 miles SE of me. Note that I am not yet receiving the digital signal from WAZE-DT (19), as they are still in the build-out process.

I think there may be something wrong with either your antenna or your box. Mine are connected to two separate antennas in my attic. Our ABC station (25) is the weakest of all of them, and I don't have any trouble pulling it in.

My point is, there has to be another issue at play. Don't blame the box yet. I'd exchange it for another to be sure.

---------------

In other news, our south side Wal-Mart (Owensboro, KY) is apparently changing from the Magnavox boxes to RCA. The display for the MW9 and all evidence of that are now gone, and the shelf label now reads "RCA CONVERTER BOX $49.87". I haven't been out to the east side store lately, so I can't say what they're selling.

Are any other Radio Shacks not selling boxes in the store? I've been in touch with both of our local stores and they are not carrying them AT ALL. You have to order them. Something isn't right there!

WackyPacks

06-05-08, 10:25 PM

In this circular that arrived in the mail today, Rite Aid is adverstising a box for $59. It says that the brand varies by store, but the picture is a box from Memorex.

seatacboy

06-05-08, 10:29 PM

In this circular that arrived in the mail today, Rite Aid is advertising a box for $59. It says that the brand varies by store, but the picture is a box from Memorex. Looking forward to reviews of the Memorex-branded box. Wondering if the RF performance, PQ or audio will be distinctly better than the rest.

vigstore

06-05-08, 11:09 PM

hello,

I'm from Brazil and the TVs there are going all digital this year and a converter will be needed. I wonder if the boxes available for the american market would work over there, or it could be a different type of signal or frequency, or digital tv signal is all the same all over the world. Thank you

Andre

SL02

06-05-08, 11:18 PM

I ordered the $49.99 Magnavox from the Sears website the 3rd week of April, and took delivery about 8 days later. I bought the G.E. locally (Target) less than 2 weeks ago. Strangely, the price was $54.99, not $49.99 that I've seen stated elsewhere. They also had the Venturer at $47.99, but at the time, I hadn't seen much written about it, and didn't know it had the LG audio bug. It came down to a coin-flip, and the G.E. won... :D

I'm fairly happy with both units, but each has problems.

Everything written about the Magnavox remote is dead-on accurate. I used it for about a week before deciding I HAD to get something better. I spent several hours trying three univeral remotes that I already owned. None worked with the Magnavox except one which could only power on/off the unit. I ended-up buying a Philips universal learning remote for $13 at CVS. Once programmed, it operates the Magnavox just fine. KMart has a similar Philips model (controls 6 components vs. 5) for $15.

The Magnavox channel-scan was decently quick, and picked-up all of the major Philadelphia-area channels and sub-channels, with one notable exception: WHYY-12 (PBS). I can still watch WHYY on the analog signal... for now, anyway.

The Magnavox picture-quality is very good through the RCA connectors on my Philips-branded 27" TV (circa 1993). I find nothing at all distracting while watching fast-motion content (NASCAR, Stanley Cup playoffs, etc.) My antenna is an old Radio Shack model, located in a second-floor attic. It's the best-looking OTA picture I've seen in my house.

After a few days, I tried the Magnavox on the bedroom TV, an inexpensive 12" mono TV/VCR combo that I bought about 5 years ago. It has only a coax input. Right away, I noticed a big problem: the audio was barely detectable until I cranked-up the TV volume to near-maximum (maybe I missed something?) The TB100MG9 does NOT have adjustable volume, so IMO, anyone planning to use a similar (coax-only) TV will not be happy with the Magnavox. Also, to change the screen format, you have to scroll-through the setup menu. Although I leave that setting on Zoom most of the time, it's a pain to change it.

For the G.E. 22729, the most noticable differences were the channel-scan (much slower than the Magnavox), the EPG (basic or advanced), and much nicer remote (larger buttons, adjustable volume, Mute, the Zoom key changes the display mode). Though I've seen other comments about the Magnavox tuner being very good, the G.E.'s tuner picked-up a low-power station and the elusive PBS WHYY channel and subchannels, which the Magnavox couldn't find. With weak signals, the G.E.'s picture has a tendency to pixelate more frequently than the Magnavox.

The G.E. has many more vents in the case, though neither unit seems unusually hot to me. The G.E.'s picture-quality is not good as the Magnavox... blurring was noticable with sporting events even on the smaller TV. The biggest plus for the G.E. (besides the additional channels) is the volume-level through the coax-connector is more than adequate... what I'd expect. It also has Power and channel up/down buttons on the case if you need them. With the Magnavox, you must use a remote.

Though neither box is a clear winner, in the end, it seems to be a choice between picture-quality and convenience.

seatacboy

06-05-08, 11:44 PM

I'm from Brazil and the TVs there are going all digital this year and a converter will be needed....Andre Brazil is adopting the SBTVD standard for digital TV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_digital_television_deployments_by_country#Brazil). This is completely different than the U.S. ATSC standard. You will need to buy a box in Brazil.

Ulmo

06-06-08, 12:36 AM

Since I got the "GE" Smart Digital Converter Box at Target last time, and it had a few small flaws, I decided to get the one from Wal-Mart or Radio Shack this time. Walmart was out of stock again, so I went to Radio Shack. Their Zenith model was sold out, but they had a new one which the store manager insisted is better because it comes with pass-through.

For $60, I got the DigitalStream DTX9950. Special features include on/off, input source and volume control for your TV set from the remote; analog pass-through so you don't have to get a seperate A/B switch and/or have a TV with that function already (mine doesn't).

The EPG works like this: it shows a list of shows on the current channel. If that channel has no EPG, then it won't show anything. You have to switch channels to see the EPG for that channel. Once you get into it, only "up", "down", and "ok" for more information work. The UP and DOWN work very fast, however, so that's an improvement compared to the slow EPG I used on the GE.

It seemed to pull in one more channel that the GE model did not pull in. I'm not sure if that's just luck or not. It also has very good quality jitter-free display.

It has more zooms than the GE model. For an HDTV thing from KQED's KTEH retransmitter, it includes 16:9, 14:9, "Zoom" which seems like chopping off the left and right anything that doesn't fit 4:3, and "anamorphic" which gets the whole 16:9 image fitting in 4:3 without black bands.

Like the GE model, it has a one-button access to the power meter on the remote.

So far, the sound has been unimpressive on our stereo compared to the GE model, but perhaps that is bad luck of what content there has been so far.

WackyPacks

06-06-08, 01:55 AM

Looking forward to reviews of the Memorex-branded box. Wondering if the RF performance, PQ or audio will be distinctly better than the rest.

Apparently, the Memorex is a clone of the Tivax STB-T9.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14017594#post14017594

viewer29

06-06-08, 03:47 AM

After a few days, I tried the Magnavox on the bedroom TV, an inexpensive 12" mono TV/VCR combo that I bought about 5 years ago. It has only a coax input. Right away, I noticed a big problem: the audio was barely detectable until I cranked-up the TV volume to near-maximum (maybe I missed something?) The TB100MG9 does NOT have adjustable volume, so IMO, anyone planning to use a similar (coax-only) TV will not be happy with the Magnavox.

The Philco TB100hh9 and Magnavox TB100mw9 both have a setup option to select audio output source. I presume the MG9 does since it's a Funai also.

Did you change the audio output source setting to "RF Out"? It comes default as "Audio Out". If you don't make the change, you will get almost no audio as you describe. My Philco did not start the initial setup wizard automatically. I did the steps manually, but missed this one and experienced exactly the problem you describe until audio source was changed.

Kiri

06-06-08, 05:34 AM

HeavenBound

06-06-08, 12:18 PM

Ulmo,

Does the 9950 have analog pass thru when the converter box is turned OFF or only with it turned on?

Ulmo

06-06-08, 02:42 PM

Ulmo,

Does the 9950 have analog pass thru when the converter box is turned OFF or only with it turned on?

Since I'm not at home, I will have to do by memory. Another poster did describe what it does, I'm pretty sure, and it matches what I witnessed: when I hit the A/D button (Analog/Digital), it turns itself off and bypasses (passes through). So, I think that answers the question. But it might not; for instance, if I were to try the analog pass through with it in the OFF state after having hit the converter's POWER button on the remote (instead of the A/D button), what would it do? I have not tested that, however, another poster did say that when it is off, it passes through. My assumption is that the other poster is correct: more fully: when it is in OFF, it passes through, and to get to the OFF state, you can either press A/D or POWER. I could be wrong. For instance, the power LED is dual red-green. I believe it flashes red-green for a few seconds after you hit one of those buttons. I haven't fully figured out what it's trying to tell me. It always did what the button press intended, though, so I wasn't worried about it.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to actually set the thing up and fully answer the questions. I'm stocking them for later use when they're needed, and don't have much chance right now to test more.

How much do you need this information? I could delay putting it in my storage unit a few days just to find out.

HeavenBound

06-06-08, 03:09 PM

Thanks for the quick reply. I currently have the DigitalStream DTX 9900 and am very pleased with it. My other coupon is good until 7/4/08 so I was planning to buy the Microprose CECB because it is supposed to have analog pass thru when turned off. Now I read that the model with the analog pass thru is not listed as coupon eligible. If the 9950 is on the CECB list then I would probably buy it instead because of my positive experience with the 9900.

Before today I didn't know that the 9950 with analog pass thru existed. Now that I know, I will do some more research, so you don't have to keep yours out of storage to test it.

dattier

06-07-08, 01:35 AM

Does the 9950 have analog pass thru when the converter box is turned OFF or only with it turned on?Only when it's off. When it's on and when it's unplugged, there's no passthrough.

The Magnavox TB100MG9, for one counterexample, behaves the opposite way: passthrough is on only when the box is on and passthrough is selected, so it's good in a chain (you can send a digital channel out the A/V ports to one device and passthrough out the RF output to another at the same time, not possible with the DTX9950), but you have to go through the menus to turn passthrough on and OK it twice because the firmware is so skeptical that you really want it.

I would think that the sane ideal (but when did forethought ever figure into the design of a consumer electronics product?) would be for passthrough to be in effect when the box is in standby and also when the box is on but passthrough is selected for the RF output.

SL02

06-07-08, 09:09 AM

The Philco TB100hh9 and Magnavox TB100mw9 both have a setup option to select audio output source. I presume the MG9 does since it's a Funai also.

Did you change the audio output source setting to "RF Out"? It comes default as "Audio Out". If you don't make the change, you will get almost no audio as you describe. My Philco did not start the initial setup wizard automatically. I did the steps manually, but missed this one and experienced exactly the problem you describe until audio source was changed.

Yep, same here. I thought I had changed it, but not so. Volume level thru the RF-out is fine now, so I retract what I said earlier (about using the Magnavox on TV's without audio jacks.) Unfortunately, while the volume is there, there's also an annoying HISS that's absent when using the audio jacks. I don't think the hiss is reason enough to avoid the Magnavox, but it's there nonetheless.

golinux

06-10-08, 06:48 PM

I just called my local Rat Shack to ask about the DS DTX9950. They said they were sold out but that I could come in, buy it and it would be shipped to me from the warehouse at no extra charge. Any other RS out there doing this?

If the DTVPal doesn't materialize in the next month or if it turns out to be a dud, I'll go for the DS DTX9950 for my second box.

viewer29

06-10-08, 10:17 PM

whitis

06-12-08, 04:08 AM

In this circular that arrived in the mail today, Rite Aid is adverstising a box for $59. It says that the brand varies by store, but the picture is a box from Memorex.

Someone posted a picture of the Ad. The box shown is a memorex but the converter shown looks like the RJTECH RJ-900ATSC. You can tell because it says in engrish on the front panel: "TV SET-UP BOX". This is made by Shenzhen MTC and is the same as the Tivax STB-T9, Alpha Digital AT2016, and AMTC 2016. The memorex, however, is said to have the analog passthru version of the tuner.

The local rite aid said they don't expect the boxes for another two weeks or so.

DiveFan

06-27-08, 08:43 PM

DITTOTEX

06-27-08, 11:29 PM

The dtv2009.gov site now shows that Rite Aid (http://www.riteaid.com/) stores near me carry a CECB. Their customer rep only knew that the brand was Craig and that a regional manager would have to 'search' for a store with stock; the stores near me didn't have a clue nor stock.

Has anyone seen a CECB (Craig CVD506 or ??) at Rite-Aid?

As of this evening the CRAIG Electronics International Ltd. CVD506
is on the NTIA-Approved & Not Currently Available list.

https://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm

aida2003

06-30-08, 12:01 PM

Hello,

I read this thread that has useful information, but now I've got to take some action about buying a converter box. But before that I'd like to ask a few questions. Oh, BTW, I'm a gal so excuse my questions if they sound stupid to you because I'm NOT technology savvy and basic explanation like to a 5-year-old would be appreciated :).

1. In summary, I got an impression that Zenith DTT900 (or BB's clone) would be the best bet price/result wise. But in order to test this or other converter boxes first, I should pay full price and then return them because the stores don't give $40 coupons back. So, do you guys buy a few different converter boxes and after returning them you get the one you liked the most?

2. I don't have an antenna at home. Should I buy Zenith first and test it or should I purchase an antenna, too, because the device alone will NOT work?

3. If I MUST purchase an antenna, what kind should I consider and where to buy it? I want an INDOOR antenna because I'm sure I won't climb on my 2-story house's roof and cheap to hire someone else to do it. :eek: :D
Someone mentioned a cheap RCA ANT111 antena with very reasonable results. Have more people used them? What about results?

4. The biggest flaw I read about Zenith and Insignia models is the left audio channel noise. Would the problem be avoided if I choose the right channel instead or is there a reason why everyone need LEFT channel? Or is it feasible to choose BOTH channels? I've no clue about the set-up since I've not bought a converter box yet.

5. Some people mentioned that with a converter box they picked MORE FREE channels. How do I check whether I'll be able to do the same? Does the converter box have a scanner or something that it would show me all available channels or will I have to manually go thrue 50-100 channels and see if I pick anything?

6. Is there anything else I should know about set-up?

Thank you for your answers in advance.:)

narkspud

06-30-08, 12:30 PM

(1) Well, I do know that the Zenith works well, is easy to set up, and has an excellent manual. The boxes aren't all that different, and if you aren't tech savvy, the only thing that will really matter to you is how easy it is to use and how well it picks up stations. So I wouldn't worry too much about returns if you get the Zenith. (That's not the only good box, but it's the one I know. I would not recommend the Sansonic box because it's harder to set up and use.)

(2) You have to have an antenna for the box to work, but that's true for analog TVs as well. What are you using now? Remember, if your TV is on cable, you do NOT need one of these boxes.

(3) That's a tough one to answer without knowing your specific situation. AVS has a topic for each local TV market. Go to that and see what's up.

(4) There's no good way around the audio problem, and it's not good to only have one channel, since you'll lose some of the sound. However, if you buy a Zenith with April or later build, you won't have the audio problem. The sticker on the side of the box will tell you when it was built. If possible you should get a DTT901 rather than a DTT900, so you'll still be able to get the analog channels as well.

(5) The converter box does a scan when you first fire it up, which will find all the available channels. There will not be "hundreds" but in most cases you'll get several more than you would with an analog TV. They're ALL free.

aida2003

06-30-08, 01:24 PM

DigaDo

06-30-08, 01:57 PM

1. In summary, I got an impression that Zenith DTT900 (or BB's clone) would be the best bet price/result wise.

2. I don't have an antenna at home. Should I buy Zenith first and test it or should I purchase an antenna, too, because the device alone will NOT work?

3. If I MUST purchase an antenna, what kind should I consider and where to buy it? I want an INDOOR antenna because I'm sure I won't climb on my 2-story house's roof and cheap to hire someone else to do it. :eek: :D
Someone mentioned a cheap RCA ANT111 antena with very reasonable results. Have more people used them? What about results?

4. The biggest flaw I read about Zenith and Insignia models is the left audio channel noise. Would the problem be avoided if I choose the right channel instead or is there a reason why everyone need LEFT channel? Or is it feasible to choose BOTH channels? I've no clue about the set-up since I've not bought a converter box yet.

Concerning questions 1 and 4: Most Circuit City stores, and some other chains such as Radio Shack, or local chains such as Bi-Mart stock the April DTT900 or April or newer DTT901 models. These models have corrected the audio problems found in older production units. The DTT901 adds analog RF pass through allowing one to watch the analog channels when the DTT901 is powered off. Tune the analog channels on your TV as you do now. In some locations you may need to ask for the DTT901 model (it may be in the back room) or special order it at the Customer Service counter. Some stores are holding the DTT901 back in their warehouse until the DTT900 models have sold out. The Best Buy stores in my area have older production units (December 2007 to March 2008) that may have the audio problems. I would assume an April Insignia converter box would have corrected the audio problem but no one has yet reported finding an Insignia of April production. The audio problem is not heard on the December through March units when the converter box setup menu is set for MONO audio or the converter box is connected to the TV through the (threaded) RF connection.

Concerning questions 2 and 3: Does your rabbit ears antenna also have a circle or loop portion? If it does you may not need a new antenna. I have a RCA ANT111 that has rabbit ears and a loop. For a $10 indoor antenna this works well. I purchased mine at Best Buy but I have seen the same model at several other local stores. I get all 23 local channels with this antenna. Of course, I'm less than five miles line-of-sight from our local broadcast antenna farms. In my location I get nearly the same results for the 23 local channels from a standard size #1 paperclip, unfolded (except the last fold and inserted into the antenna jack so it stands up but my paper clip tends to fall over but that does not seem to impair channel reception). I call this the "Paper Clip Antenna, Standard Size #1" that may be purchased at Staples at $2.99 for a box of "1,000 antennas." Office Depot offers a similar model priced at $3.99 for a box of "1,000 antennas." Antenna positioning and aiming is important in most locations. The Zenith/Insignia models feature a visual and audible signal strength indicator that is helpful for antenna adjustment. Of course your results may vary.

Kosty

06-30-08, 02:05 PM

My local Circuit City has now both April built Zenith DTT900 and May built DTT901s on the shelf. Same price.

I had tried all the Wal-Mart Magnavox models , the CC Zeniths, and Radio Shack DigitalStream boxes now.

The Zenith DTT901 is IMHO the best value and performance by far, even on a larger set, even a older HDTV without a ARSC tuner, it has good 16:9 performance , certainly not HD , but a reasonable standard def 16:9 picture.

The only Disgitalstream advantage is a nicer remote , and the Wal-Mart Magnavox are cheaper but you need to use your existing TV remote with them.

pestocat

06-30-08, 02:18 PM

Thanks for a prompt response.
As regards to my current antenna, it's "Rabbit Ears":D (no roof involved). I don't have cable, satellite or anything else fancy. So, I've been watching FREE TV and I'd like to keep it that way for a while.

Thanks for the tip that I should look for a more recent Zenith box and I should be all right.

Now it seems that all I need is an antenna, but hopefully someone can recommend an indoor one.

Thanks

My first suggestion is to use your current rabbit ear antenna. All you need is to connect antenna's coax connector to the antenna connector on the converter box. The TV channels you receive now even if they are a little snowy will come with a perfect picture with your Zenith DTT900 or DTT901 converter box. If you want to purchase a new rabbit ear antenna, I suggest one with a built-in amplifier with maybe 20 dB gain. These can be purchased for $25 to $40.

narkspud

06-30-08, 03:08 PM

The audio problem is not heard on the December through March units when the converter box setup menu is set for MONO audio or the converter box is connected to the TV through the (threaded) RF connection.

Yes it is. It's mixed with the clean right channel so it isn't as prevalent, but it's still very much there. Just stick with April or later and avoid the whole issue.

Pestocat is correct. If you get clean analog signals with the rabbit ears (especially the UHF channels, 14 and higher) then there's no reason you shouldn't get the digital stations perfectly on the same antenna.

aida2003

06-30-08, 03:50 PM

My first suggestion is to use your current rabbit ear antenna. All you need is to connect antenna's coax connector to the antenna connector on the converter box. The TV channels you receive now even if they are a little snowy will come with a perfect picture with your Zenith DTT900 or DTT901 converter box. If you want to purchase a new rabbit ear antenna, I suggest one with a built-in antenna with maybe 20 dB gain. These can be purchased for $25 to $40.

You guys have been very helpful. Great answers and helpful tips.:)
First I'll test the "Rabbit Ears" like you suggested ;). This antenna does have the loop (circle), though I never understood its purpose. I mostly played with 'sticks' to get a better picture. Maybe the loop will come handy now. And yes, I get snowy picture now. So maybe I'll be one of lucky people whose TV picture improves.

Pestocat: In case I must purchase an antenna for $25-$40, can you give me some model names or links to see their pictures because I cannot visualize "a built-in antenna" and what 20dB gain means :(. If I quote you at CC or BB, will they understand me or look at me like I'm some sort of a dummy:eek:?

So far CC website doesn't show DTT901 available yet. Maybe I'll have to check the nearest store :confused:. If not, I can wait since my coupon doesn't expire until mid-Sept.:)

Thank you all again. If I've got so many questions about the converter box, I'm surely happy I'm not in the market for a HDTV, LCD, or Plasma TV.:D

pestocat

06-30-08, 06:58 PM

You guys have been very helpful. Great answers and helpful tips.:)
First I'll test the "Rabbit Ears" like you suggested ;). This antenna does have the loop (circle), though I never understood its purpose. I mostly played with 'sticks' to get a better picture. Maybe the loop will come handy now. And yes, I get snowy picture now. So maybe I'll be one of lucky people whose TV picture improves.

Pestocat: In case I must purchase an antenna for $25-$40, can you give me some model names or links to see their pictures because I cannot visualize "a built-in antenna" and what 20dB gain means :(. If I quote you at CC or BB, will they understand me or look at me like I'm some sort of a dummy:eek:?

So far CC website doesn't show DTT901 available yet. Maybe I'll have to check the nearest store :confused:. If not, I can wait since my coupon doesn't expire until mid-Sept.:)

Thank you all again. If I've got so many questions about the converter box, I'm surely happy I'm not in the market for a HDTV, LCD, or Plasma TV.:D

I had a typo in my original answer (which is now corrected). It should be built-in amplifier and not built-in antenna. But here is what I suggest
http://www.jascoproducts.com/products/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=19&idproduct=90 I have not used one of these, but it looks good. I found this locally for $27.95. Hope this helps.

holl_ands

06-30-08, 11:01 PM

EV has tested a bunch of indoor antennas (includes pictures, etc):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779

Use www.tvfool.com to see what sort of signal levels you have.
If you have any RX (dBm) signal levels stronger than about -35 (analog) or -45 (digital),
you may have a problem using an amplified antenna due to overload problems.

Otherwise, an amplified antenna is preferred for indoor use, since the designer can minimize
impedance mis-match (VSWR) problems.

aida2003

07-01-08, 08:48 AM

Ken H

07-09-08, 03:21 PM

Seen in Target:
Samsonic
GE
Venturer

CasualOTAer

07-10-08, 10:38 AM

OK, now we're getting to a more complicated area. :eek:
I checked out www.TVfool.com and my address shows strong signal levels. They (analog & digital) start above -45.6 Rx and go up to -126 Rx. So, what does this mean? What kind of problems would that cause for amplified antennas?

Well, I guess, I shouldn't ask such questions before I test my silly Rabbit ears. Lucky me that I hardly ever watch TV. So if something goes wrong and I see a black screen only next year, I'll just get a free DVD from a library once in a while.:p

Even with high signal levels per TVfool, you are not home free. Especially when using a simple indoor antenna, due to multipath, etc. You may need to move your antenna to different locations and tweak the dipole's positions to get a good lock for most stations. It may or may not be convenient, but some, myself included, have found that for OTA DTV with an indoor antenna, putting the antenna in front of a window that faces the general direction of the transmitters works best.

Check TVfool again and look for any pre-transition and post-transition high VHF digital channels. If there are none in your area, experiment with telescoping your rabbit ear elements back in a couple of sections. This may make the antenna perform slightly better at UHF frequencies.

FWIW, a lot of the so-called HDTV indoor amplified antennas will not do much better than your rabbit ears. See the appropriate AVS Forum threads for user feedback on good and not so good indoor antennas.

Steven Friedrich

07-10-08, 11:56 AM

OK, now we're getting to a more complicated area. :eek:
I checked out TVfool and my address shows strong signal levels. They (analog & digital) start above -45.6 Rx and go up to -126 Rx. So, what does this mean? What kind of problems would that cause for amplified antennas?

Well, I guess, I shouldn't ask such questions before I test my silly Rabbit ears. Lucky me that I hardly ever watch TV. So if something goes wrong and I see a black screen only next year, I'll just get a free DVD from a library once in a while.:p

That's down to -126.

You probably want to only look at the channels in green. Those are the ones you'll probably be able to receive with only an indoor antenna.

The left channel issue is due to a defective product. It's the left channel of stereo audio and onlt applies if you use the two audio RCA connectors. If you connect your convertor to your TV with the antenna cable (which is RG-somethingorother, and 75 ohms impedance). Did you mention what connectors your TV has?

Really old TVs had two screw terminals. These are referred to as twin-lead and/or 300 ohm impedance. If this is what your TV has, you'll need a cheap convertor available everywhere. They are often also a switch box that allows games consoles to be added to a TV.

I just bought the Zenith DDT901 at Circuit City. I went in there expecting to find the DTT900, but was pleasantly surprised to get the 901. The 901 has an analog pass-thru feature that the 900 doesn't have. I can turn off the 901 and get channel 56 analog. I can't get it digital, yet.

The info at tvfool is good because you can find out where the TV antennas are in your area. Then you can point your antenna better. You want your antenna to be perpendicular to the antenna, i.e., if the antenna is north of you, your antenna should be east-west. Doesn't matter if it's pointing north or south, if it's an indoor antenna. Outdoor antennas are usually directional, so you just point it north (for this example).

I have an indoor, amplified antenna. I actually LOSE stations if I turn the gain up. I am essentially using it with no-gain. This is true for most people living within a metro area. Some people will have to attenuate the signal to get a good picture.

The "extra" channels people are typically talking about are due to the digital transmission. In my area, KET has one analog transmission but 4 digital. One of those is on only part of the day. Channel 27 has 1 analog, but 3 digital. The third one is just weather radar though. And channel 60 something, which I don't get at all as analog, I get 4 digital channels.

Regarding the antenna, the "ears" are for VHF (Very High Frequency) and the circular part is for UHF (Ultra High Frequency). VHF is channels 2-13 and UHF is 14-69. You'll find that many TV stations that have UHF analog are using VHF channels for their digital. On the chart at tvfool, if you get the digital stations image, you'll see that digital channels have a "virtual" channel, in my case channel 56.1, and then it's real channel is 4 (VHF). So channel 56 is transmitting analog on channel 56, but channel 56.1 (same station) is actually on channel 4 (but it's digital so you can't get it without a convertor box).

WackyPacks

07-10-08, 05:06 PM

LMUBill

07-12-08, 04:26 PM

Just received the latest Rite Aid Circular.

Cost is the usual $59 - $40 coupon = $20. The brand(s) in your local store apparently varies by region. Ad does name Memorex (MVCB1000?), Craig (CVD506?), and Access HD (DTA1020D?).

Went to four Rite-Aids around here. Three didn't even know they carried the boxes (and didn't have any in stock anyway). The fourth had two Memorex boxes so I used my coupon card to get one.... and after 20 minutes of trying to figure out how to get the card to work and take off the $40 I thikn they finally figured it out. That or they just shortchanged themselves $40.

You would thiink that someone who would go through all the trouble to stock and sell the things would actually teach their employees what they are and how to apply the discount using the cards. The cashier I had at first didn't even know what the box was for.

If my card wasn't due to expire in a week and you could actually find a box anywhere else around here I might have gone elsewhere.

Dark Ages

10-10-08, 12:53 AM

My local RiteAid has all three of the boxes mention in the circular, but I didn't know that until I was returning the AccessHD DTA1020D. I sure hope that is a worthless box because with it I was only able to get one digital station. The sale is still good until Saturday, so I'm considering going back to try the other two they have - Memorex MVCB1000 and Craig CVD506. Since the only other store within driving distance that is even stocking the boxes is Walmart, and they only have the Magnavox TB100MW9, which I have also read plenty of bad things about, I don't have a lot of hope that I will be watching TV after Feb. 17. With analog, and a ChannelMaster antenna on the roof, we get 25 channels in 3 states. I'm in CT, but get NY channels clear as can be. So, am I a victim of the "cliff effect" or just a bad box? I'm about ready to let all the stations have an earful should digital signal the end of viewing for me - not that it will change anything.

pestocat

10-10-08, 01:06 AM

Sammer

10-10-08, 12:31 PM

I don't have a lot of hope that I will be watching TV after Feb. 17. With analog, and a ChannelMaster antenna on the roof, we get 25 channels in 3 states. I'm in CT, but get NY channels clear as can be. So, am I a victim of the "cliff effect" or just a bad box? I'm about ready to let all the stations have an earful should digital signal the end of viewing for me - not that it will change anything.
Please don't give up hope yet, if you give your zip code and what antenna model you have as pestocat said there is probably someone here who can help.

Dark Ages

10-14-08, 12:05 AM

What is your ZIP code. If you can get a good analog you should be able to get DTV. What antenna do you have.

My zip 06419. We have a ten year old Channel Master roto-antenna, I don't know a model number on that, it just says Automatic on the roto-box.

Part of the problem was the converter box. We went back and got the Craig box. It at least registers half of the channels we get in analog, but tells me the antenna needs moving - apparently I'm going to have to know what corner of the Empire State Building each station has it's transmitter on.

But my review on the Craig box - decent, but I hope there's something better out there. It needs to warm up, but then if it's on too long it's not as good either. It must need specific temps to work it's best. I hate that it constantly reminds you when a station loses signal - I can tell that by the black screen. It spends way too much time admonishing the viewer. It does drop the audio level some, but I'm not getting any hiss when the station are clear. You can't manually find a station - if it doesn't scan it, you can't add it.

I keep rescanning when the analog signals are at their best, but still several of our "go to" stations are noshows. Without exact coodinates for the transmitters, and an antenna that can be digitally set, it really doesn't look good. The channels that do come in will sit at about 12-25 for signal strength, then jump to 0 without warning. No channel is safe from extreme pixelation and audio drop out.

Sites like antenna web don't even list most of the channels we get in analog as being possible in my zip code, but they have always been there. The sub channels are more annoying than anything, and add nothing for me. I am willing to sacrifice Hartford stations if we can get NYC stations back. If not, I'll have to lose a 24 year relationship with the news I watch.

I'm just so sick of the propaganda about how much better digital is. As far as I'm concerned it pales in comparison. It's really not broadcasting anymore. All or nothing is leaving me with a lot of nothing.

holl_ands

10-14-08, 07:16 AM

We need more info re your antenna...what does it look like? How about a photo?
UHF performance is currently very important for digital channels.
A better prediction for now and Post-Feb2009 can be found using www.tvfool.com

In Feb2009, analog channels 2, 4 & 5 will simply go away, leaving the currently
operating digital channels in the UHF band....are these difficult to receive now???
Most stations avoided Ch2-6 due to need for a HUGE antenna and impulse noise problems.

Digital operations currently in UHF band will replace analog on channels 7, 11 & 13.
Ch7 & 13 should improve....but Ch11 WPIX-DT will suffer co-channel interference from WWLP-DT.
Ch58 PBS should improve by moving to Ch8. The remainder stay in UHF band.

With the general shutdown of full power analog channels (and low power later), interference
will be reduced throughout both VHF and UHF bands. Many stations are now operating at
reduced power due to interference problems, esp. in dense metro areas.

Some Broadcast antennas will be repositioned to optimize digital vice analog operations.
So check back in February.....

PS: The FCC never intended for viewers to receive "out-of-market" signals.
This could become impossible if the so-called "White Space Devices" are ever approved....

pestocat

10-14-08, 01:33 PM

My zip 06419. We have a ten year old Channel Master roto-antenna, I don't know a model number on that, it just says Automatic on the roto-box.

Part of the problem was the converter box. We went back and got the Craig box. It at least registers half of the channels we get in analog, but tells me the antenna needs moving - apparently I'm going to have to know what corner of the Empire State Building each station has it's transmitter on.

But my review on the Craig box - decent, but I hope there's something better out there. It needs to warm up, but then if it's on too long it's not as good either. It must need specific temps to work it's best. I hate that it constantly reminds you when a station loses signal - I can tell that by the black screen. It spends way too much time admonishing the viewer. It does drop the audio level some, but I'm not getting any hiss when the station are clear. You can't manually find a station - if it doesn't scan it, you can't add it.

I keep rescanning when the analog signals are at their best, but still several of our "go to" stations are noshows. Without exact coodinates for the transmitters, and an antenna that can be digitally set, it really doesn't look good. The channels that do come in will sit at about 12-25 for signal strength, then jump to 0 without warning. No channel is safe from extreme pixelation and audio drop out.

Sites like antenna web don't even list most of the channels we get in analog as being possible in my zip code, but they have always been there. The sub channels are more annoying than anything, and add nothing for me. I am willing to sacrifice Hartford stations if we can get NYC stations back. If not, I'll have to lose a 24 year relationship with the news I watch.

I'm just so sick of the propaganda about how much better digital is. As far as I'm concerned it pales in comparison. It's really not broadcasting anymore. All or nothing is leaving me with a lot of nothing.

Dark Ages,
You have to forget receiving any of the New York stations. The signal level is just too low for your location. Make sure you have good UHF reception. In analog can you get WCTX with a very clear picture? This is channel 59 and you can sort of use that as a test for UHF. I suggest adding an amplifier and put it as close to the antenna as possible. Channel Master has an outdoor amplifier that can be put right at the antenna, but even at the base of your rotor is OK. The amplifier is powered through the coax cable. The will boost the signal. The main problem with viewing the New York stations is that the noise margin for you is 16 dB lower for DTV compared to analog. 16 dB is a factor of 40. This means the New York stations DTV signals are only 1/40 of the analog and this won't improve very much after the transition. Your best bet for reception is to point the antenna to 293 and 344 degrees magnetic. Check out http://www.tvfool.com for your reception details. There is a parameter in their display NM(dB) that is the noise margin. You need this value to be greater than 0. At least 10 would or should be a minimum. Keep us informed on how or what you do.

Dark Ages

10-18-08, 09:57 PM

We need more info re your antenna...what does it look like? How about a photo?
UHF performance is currently very important for digital channels.

In Feb2009, analog channels 2, 4 & 5 will simply go away, leaving the currently
operating digital channels in the UHF band....are these difficult to receive now???
Most stations avoided Ch2-6 due to need for a HUGE antenna and impulse noise problems.

Digital operations currently in UHF band will replace analog on channels 7, 11 & 13.
Ch7 & 13 should improve....but Ch11 WPIX-DT will suffer co-channel interference from WWLP-DT.
Ch58 PBS should improve by moving to Ch8. The remainder stay in UHF band.

With the general shutdown of full power analog channels (and low power later), interference
will be reduced throughout both VHF and UHF bands. Many stations are now operating at
reduced power due to interference problems, esp. in dense metro areas.

Some Broadcast antennas will be repositioned to optimize digital vice analog operations.
So check back in February.....

PS: The FCC never intended for viewers to receive "out-of-market" signals.
This could become impossible if the so-called "White Space Devices" are ever approved....

Dark Ages,
You have to forget receiving any of the New York stations. The signal level is just too low for your location. Make sure you have good UHF reception. In analog can you get WCTX with a very clear picture? This is channel 59 and you can sort of use that as a test for UHF. I suggest adding an amplifier and put it as close to the antenna as possible. Channel Master has an outdoor amplifier that can be put right at the antenna, but even at the base of your rotor is OK. The amplifier is powered through the coax cable. The will boost the signal. The main problem with viewing the New York stations is that the noise margin for you is 16 dB lower for DTV compared to analog. 16 dB is a factor of 40. This means the New York stations DTV signals are only 1/40 of the analog and this won't improve very much after the transition. Your best bet for reception is to point the antenna to 293 and 344 degrees magnetic. Check out for your reception details. There is a parameter in their display NM(dB) that is the noise margin. You need this value to be greater than 0. At least 10 would or should be a minimum. Keep us informed on how or what you do.

OK, but when I first had the Craig box hooked up, I was getting several NY stations - WNBC (4), WNYW (5), WWOR (9), WLIW (21) WNYE (25) have all made appearances in digital - but only WLIW is still there now that the temperatures are dropping. 5 and 9 are each other's sub channel, and for a time were perfect - I'm talking hours on end they were strong. If 2-6 are disappearing completely, then why are they already broadcasting digital on those channels?

I'm not ready to give up on NY channels yet. Just as I'm pretty sure parts of Long Island and New Jersey won't want to give up on the NY stations that are just as far from them as they are from me. GAH!!! when do all the stations stream all programming online, this is impossible. By the end of February I'll be curled in a fetal position.

I don't even know WWLP( wait - was that 22 in Springfield, MA in analog? Haven't seen them in a decade!) - and if the unknown 58 takes over 8, we will lose the only station that is even close to consistant. And whether or not out of market viewing was meant to be there, they have been my mainstay channels for nearly 30 years. Local channels are a joke, especially the news.

WCTX is windblown and freezes and pixelates. (Urp Orp snip wap - that's what the audio sounds like and then it catches and holds a tone that rings or echoes. Hello narrow-casting, broadcasting is dead.) WTNH is our strongest signal in digital, but even it disappears - those two stations are in the same building, but you'd never know it.

There are already 2 amplifiers on our antenna - one on the roof near the rotor and one inside the house near the box. Would we be able to use another amp on that or would it blow it out? I saw a flat panel antenna with an optional amp that's supposed to boost the signal, but I'm afraid it would blow the amps we already have. We've always had very good UHF reception getting about 15 stations in that frequency range.

Are there any converter boxes that are better at pulling in signals? I've tried to find either and RCA 800B1 or the Zenith 901 that seem to be well reviewed, but no one sells them around here.

It just galls me that I will no longer be able to turn on the TV and enjoy. And trust me, without my New York stations, I will not enjoy TV anymore.

Dark Ages

10-18-08, 10:00 PM

We need more info re your antenna...what does it look like? How about a photo?

I found a picture. I tried to post it with the last post, but I didn't have enough posts to post urls yet. I hope it lets me this time.

http://http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd127/kazroo/IMG_00055.jpgThis is the antenna in question. Never knew my icy tree picture would be good for anything else. I'd say it extends about 12-15 feet above the roof, and the roof is about 20 feet from the ground. I'll try to find more out about the antenna, but it's been ten years since it was replaced and the company that did it is out of business.

I can't seem to make the picture come up for me, but that doesn't always mean others can't see them. My hosting site is being a pain.

pm3839

10-19-08, 02:43 AM

Hello,

I read this thread that has useful information, but now I've got to take some action about buying a converter box. But before that I'd like to ask a few questions......I'm NOT technology savvy and basic explanation like to a 5-year-old would be appreciated :).........

3. If I MUST purchase an antenna, what kind should I consider and where to buy it? I want an INDOOR antenna because I'm sure I won't climb on my 2-story house's roof and cheap to hire someone else to do it. :eek: :D
......thank you for your answers in advance.:)

dont laugh but if youre within about 30 miles (more or less) from the station transmitters u can make a very good antenna from two straightened metal wire coat hangers, a small piece of wood, some coax to connect to the tv and a $3 matching transformer...

i made one from two 'straightened out' metal wire coat hangers (or any other 'stiff enough' large gauge wire).... just like the one in this pic and it works very well....i know it looks too simple and silly to work well but it does....

its only about 30 inches tall and about 14 wide...u could put it in your attic, or a closet... or maybe even behind the tv cabinet or a couch or something....mine is in my attic and works great for all my local digital channels....33 total!

the only thing not shown here is the $3 matching transformer...u connect it where the center 2 zig-zag pairs meet....u can get one at places like RADIO SHACK or KMART or WALMART, etc....its very ez to do....

so try it...u have nothing to lose....or msg me if u want to know more >

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21971251@N04/2120500361/

holl_ands

10-19-08, 04:19 AM

holl_ands

10-19-08, 05:14 AM

Pestocat:
Analog power is always specified & measured using a PEAK reading meter (for sync pulses).
Whereas Digital power is specified & measured using an AVERAGE reading meter.
Hence for the same average power, Analog "measurement" will be about 8 dB higher.

Digital also has signal processing improvements due to error correction coding.
And has vastly superior resistance to multipath than Analog.

Hence a Digital station can provide the "same reception quality" with an AVERAGE power
level rating about 12 dB LOWER than the PEAK power level rating of an Analog station,
presuming they operate on the same frequency....otherwise higher freqs need more power.

Bottom line: Digital stations can operate with a much smaller Receive signal level
(per TVFool list) as well as a smaller Noise Margin (NM).

pestocat

10-19-08, 08:14 PM

OK, but when I first had the Craig box hooked up, I was getting several NY stations - WNBC (4), WNYW (5), WWOR (9), WLIW (21) WNYE (25) have all made appearances in digital - but only WLIW is still there now that the temperatures are dropping. 5 and 9 are each other's sub channel, and for a time were perfect - I'm talking hours on end they were strong. If 2-6 are disappearing completely, then why are they already broadcasting digital on those channels?

I'm not ready to give up on NY channels yet. Just as I'm pretty sure parts of Long Island and New Jersey won't want to give up on the NY stations that are just as far from them as they are from me. GAH!!! when do all the stations stream all programming online, this is impossible. By the end of February I'll be curled in a fetal position.

I don't even know WWLP( wait - was that 22 in Springfield, MA in analog? Haven't seen them in a decade!) - and if the unknown 58 takes over 8, we will lose the only station that is even close to consistant. And whether or not out of market viewing was meant to be there, they have been my mainstay channels for nearly 30 years. Local channels are a joke, especially the news.

WCTX is windblown and freezes and pixelates. (Urp Orp snip wap - that's what the audio sounds like and then it catches and holds a tone that rings or echoes. Hello narrow-casting, broadcasting is dead.) WTNH is our strongest signal in digital, but even it disappears - those two stations are in the same building, but you'd never know it.

There are already 2 amplifiers on our antenna - one on the roof near the rotor and one inside the house near the box. Would we be able to use another amp on that or would it blow it out? I saw a flat panel antenna with an optional amp that's supposed to boost the signal, but I'm afraid it would blow the amps we already have. We've always had very good UHF reception getting about 15 stations in that frequency range.

Are there any converter boxes that are better at pulling in signals? I've tried to find either and RCA 800B1 or the Zenith 901 that seem to be well reviewed, but no one sells them around here.

It just galls me that I will no longer be able to turn on the TV and enjoy. And trust me, without my New York stations, I will not enjoy TV anymore.

Dark Ages,
To get the Zenith DTT901 go to Circuit City, they have them. You really must take a look at www.tvfool.com it gives the information about the digital stations. The analog 2 to 6 channels are not broadcasting their digital signal on the same real channel as their analog. The TV stations that are broadcasting DTV are actually broadcasting on a different channel. The viewer doesn't know the difference. For instance: WABC is channel 7 analog, but 7-1 is really channel 45, WCBS channel 2 analog and 2-1 is really channel 56, and WNBC channel 4 analog and 4-1 is channel 28. After Feb. 17, WABC DTV will go back to real 7, WCBS DTV 2-1 will go to channel 33, and WNBC DTV will stay at real 28. We will just tune to 2-1, 4-1, and 7-1 and won't know the difference. I hope this isn't too confusing.

pestocat

10-20-08, 12:37 PM

holl_ands

10-20-08, 04:34 PM

We don't have enough experience with TVFool's new Noise Margin (NM) calculation to say,
other than colorizations posted on the website.

From description on TVFool website, NM appears to be related to Fade Margin (FM).
Engineering Rule of Thumb usually says to allow 15-20+ dB for Fade Margin.
TVFool didn't say how much Fade Margin they allowed.....

As I understand it, "0 dB NM" corresponds to just barely meeting minimum SNR requirement
with a small amount of padding to allow for seasonal and fading conditions.

TVFool results aren't "calibrated" for local conditions...although they do hint at a correction:
"If you take the initial NM value for a given channel, add your antenna gain, subtract all the other
system losses, and still end up with a value above 0, then you should be able to detect that channel."

But there is no easy means to include indoor/attic loss (13 dB +/- 7 dB), antenna gain (0-15 dB),
sensitivity loss due to VSWR (0-10+ dB), improvement due to Preamp (typ. 10 dB), cable loss,
UHF clutter loss (typ 7 dB), VHF impulse noise degradations (varies....a lot), ad nauseum....

My previously posted "DTV Signal Level Calculator" spread sheet included most of these:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=10961518&postcount=2890
Note that this is from over a year ago when I was trying to "calibrate" TVFool F[99,99]
signal reliability statistics against Radio Mobile (and FCC) F[50,90] stats.
Note that based on the difficult of comparing F[99,99] to "real world" results, TVFool
has changed to a more realistic statistic (they didn't say, but probably F[50,90]???)
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=16&Itemid=76
So it appears my spread sheet can still be used with TVFool, with RX(dBm) replaced
by the new Pwr(dBm) value and then you'll see how much Fade Margin is available.

systems2000

10-21-08, 11:28 PM

Dark Ages,

Be aware that we are entering a new season and that will change the ground and atmospheric conditions so that stations that were clear, become unusable and unusable or non-existant stations, become viewable.

Dark Ages

10-23-08, 03:16 PM

Dark Ages:
Ooooo, preeettttyyyy
[Ice??? I've heard of it, but can't recall last time I actually saw it in the "wild"...]
[Here we only use ice in Margaritas.....]

Here's the link to the picture after I "fixed" it:
http://224.photobucket.com/albums/dd127/kazroo/IMG_00055.jpg

Yes, it's a very large Combo VHF/UHF antenna, which should have pretty good
UHF performance if it's connected and working correctly.

It's late...I'll let others play "name that antenna"....

===========================================
Since you have several strong, nearby VHF and UHF stations I would
worry about desensitization of the mast mounted Preamp. Since it
sounds like it is old, outdated technology and possibly degraded due
to moisture, I would replace it (and any Baluns) with a modern Preamp
with above average overload characteristics such as W-G low gain series.

Although the 12 dB gain W-G HDP-269 has the highest overload rating,
at your location, a moderate gain Preamp should work better, such as
W-G AP-8700, AP-8703 or AP-8733 depending on whether your antenna
can be operated via direct 300-ohm I/F.
Avoid high gain Preamps such as the highly rated CM-7777 (for RURAL).

Strong signals cause intermodulation distortions, resulting in unwanted
"noise" on top of certain weak stations. Unless there is a lot of loss
(e.g. cable & splitters) between the mast mounted Preamp and the indoor
Distribution Amp, the output of the Distro Amp could be desensitizing
your DTV's tuner. Sometimes a little MORE attenuation between the amps
will help (you can try inserting one and then two RF Splitters...each is 4 dB).

=========================================
Channel Master CM-7000 is getting lots of good reports re very
sensitive tuner...and is one of the very few CECB's with S-Video I/F:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1029256
Zenith DTT900 (April and later) and new DTT901 also have good reports.

OK, I have a degree in broadcast communications, so I know how to make TV, but transmitter technology wasn't part of the deal, so while I get the general idea of what your saying, the technical specs aren't in my knowledge well. I also have no way to get on the roof, and even if I did, the roof is in no shape to be walked on. It only survived the installation of this antenna becase it was winter and it was frozen solid. Barring changing the amp on the roof (and I hate to seem dense, but what is a Balun?), what can I do from the ground level end? I looked at the amp down here and it says it is a Winegard PS-8000. There's a lot of cable between the antenna and the TV, maybe 100 feet or more in the homerun of the cable, and it is split to come into the house in two rooms, and there's probably another 25+ feet of cable from the point of entry to each TV in the house, each with another spliter.

Based on my research, the only channel master antenna with the range we currently get is the CM3671, which has a VHF range of 100+ miles and a UHF range of 85+ miles. Based on my calculations (thankyou national geographic maps), I live approximately 85 straight line miles from the NYC transmitters on the Empire State Building (closer than parts of Long Island) Would it improve anything if we could get an powerful UHF only antenna - do they make any of those with better range than the 85+ miles we get with the antenna we have?

pestocat - there isn't a circuit city within 50 miles of here - I really do live in the sticks!! Looks like I'll be begging someone with a credit card to buy a box that's any good. What you said about the channels makes the most sense of anything I've heard so far. This is what should be included in the DTV transition websites - I have yet to find an "official" site that anwers or speaks to my problems.

(Officially, Connecticut has a dual metro media market (Hartford + New Haven), but the northern tier of the state is more tuned into Springfield, MA or Boston, the eastern-most portion of the state is tuned into Providence, and the three lower counties to the west are tuned into NYC. Without the overlap of the technically out-of-market stations, I have the feeling I'm not the only angry TV watcher. )

Rite Aid lowered it's price on the boxes they sell - now $40 - so we got back the difference from what they charged last week. They also said that if we got our coupons in the next couple of weeks, they'd refund us the rest of the cost, so I ordered my coupons and they are due in early Nov., so even if the box isn't the best, it might end up free. I'll need at least three boxes for my TV set up, so one for free would be nice.

I'd still sell my soul to keep WNBC - after 24 years of watcing their news, no one else will live up to them.