I'm looking to pull the trigger on the Pioneer Pro 1150 today and was wondering about the reliability of the panel. I know the elite's come with a 2 year warranty but should I extend it to 4 years?

I missed the boat on the 5080 but can't seem to pass up the price on the 1150 and I would like to be convinced it's worth my $$.

Well I have only had mine for about 23 days but I am so impressed with this display compared to my Samsung 5084. It just looks and feels like it was built to perform and last.

I am debating the warranty too since I can buy it within 30 days but the aftermarket ones like Mack and one other I can't remember offer a much better price and they go in effect AFTER the factory one is up unlike the B&M stores which go from the date of purchase.

Personally I never looked at the 5080 because I wanted the extra adjustments with the Elite. I am using D-Nices reference settings and this dispaly is beautiful. You will not regret it. Not sure of the price you are getting on it though.

I'm looking to pull the trigger on the Pioneer Pro 1150 today and was wondering about the reliability of the panel. I know the elite's come with a 2 year warranty but should I extend it to 4 years?

I missed the boat on the 5080 but can't seem to pass up the price on the 1150 and I would like to be convinced it's worth my $$.

TVs are like cars. You're most likely to have problems either right off the bat, or several (>4) years down the line. Could you have problems in the 2-4 year window? Sure. Is the expected value of a repair (probability times the cost if you had to fix it yourself) less than the warranty price? Of course. Only you can tell if you are going to be so hard-pressed in the 2-4 year window that you won't be able to pay the money yourself to fix it -- or at worst, buy a brand new TV (which will be cheaper at that point in time for equal-or-better quality). Personally, like most extended warranties, I don't think it's worth it. FWIW, Consumer Reports doesn't either.

Simply an excellent TV only the PRO-110 is better and it's just slightly better.

Great choice.

Enjoy!

-Robert

Simply an excellent TV only the PRO-110 is better and it's just slightly better.

Great choice.

Enjoy!

-Robert

When you say "slightly better," what would you say are the advantages besides the added resolution?

When you say "slightly better," what would you say are the advantages besides the added resolution?

That is the only advantage. And only if you can tell the difference from your viewing distance. The 1150 is a great set!

Other than the slightly finer image on HD cable and satellite feeds it seems to me that the "PURE" mode make Blu-ray and HD DVD look better than the PRO-1150HD. From most users viewing distance you would have a hard time seeing any difference.

The picture quality advantage is not significantly better, but a little more image enhancement over the PRO-1150HD than with you would see from a satellite or cable HD's very slight advantage.

-Robert

Other than the slightly finer image on HD cable and satellite feeds it seems to me that the "PURE" mode make Blu-ray and HD DVD look better than the PRO-1150HD. From most users viewing distance you would have a hard time seeing any difference.

The picture quality advantage is not significantly better, but a little more image enhancement over the PRO-1150HD than with you would see from a satellite or cable HD's very slight advantage.

-Robert

Robert, please don't take this the wrong way, but from one sales professional to another, you really come off sounding like a "salesman" often. Take that as constructive feedback if you will.

All Elites have PURE mode so how is that a differentiator between the 1150 and the 110 as they are BOTH Elite models?

Sales 101:

Refrain from making "this is better than that" or "this is the best" statements. Just state the differences and let the customer decide what is "better" or "best" to meet their needs.

Slightly higher contrast ratio on the 110FD vs the 1150HD.

Different First Color Surface Pro on the 110FD then the 1150HD. Ones a Pro and ones a Pro Plus or something like that...

1080p on the 110FD vs 768 on the 1150HD, but that's only meaningful if you sit close enough (inside of 7').

I have an 1140HD and a 150FD and I think my 1140HD looks stunning still. My 150FD looks great, waiting to get it calibrated so it will look awesome.

Russ

I was a little confused on his comment as well. I couldn't tell if he was saying Blu-ray and HD DVDs looked better on the 110 or that the PURE mode made them look better.

The advantages between the two sets are minimal, but as I don't plan to upgrade panels for the next 3-5 years, I want something that will keep up with the new technology, even if it's a few years old. As Pioneer has already decided to cease production of all 768p panels, I want a 1080p set so I won't look back and say I wish I had the extra resolution support.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. Sorry if it took us off topic!

Cronin, thanks for your comments. I understand and appreciate them, but please tell me how to address a question about 768p vs 1080p resolution without saying the word better. In fact, I said it's slightly better, hardly a sales pitch for the far more expensive model. And please don't confuse my enthusiasm for these very fine products with salesmanship as I love these Kuro and can't sell most of the forum members anyway so I'm here for the fun and to pass along industry and technical information.

Also I know they both have the "PURE" mode, but to me the PRO-110FD has a little more picture quality advantage when playing a BD or HD DVD in PURE mode.

Finally, in product marketing almost all companies that offer different models use the term good-better-best in describing their own products. That's what Pioneer does by offering 4 50" Kuro panels this year.

-Robert

Robert just loves what he does and I know that :)

Cronin, thanks for your comments. I understand and appreciate them, but please tell me how to address a question about 768p vs 1080p resolution without saying the word better. In fact, I said it's slightly better, hardly a sales pitch for the far more expensive model. And please don't confuse my enthusiasm for these very fine products with salesmanship as I love these Kuro and can't sell most of the forum members anyway so I'm here for the fun and to pass along industry and technical information.

Also I know they both have the "PURE" mode, but to me the PRO-110FD has a little more picture quality advantage when playing a BD or HD DVD in PURE mode.

Finally, in product marketing almost all companies that offer different models use the term good-better-best in describing their own products. That's what Pioneer does by offering 4 50" Kuro panels this year.

-Robert

You address the 768p vs. 1080p issue by describing the how that factors into what sources you are using and what your seating distance is. Then the customer can take those matters into account and come to a decision as to what is "better" for them.

As for the rest of what you wrote, it was simply confusing and did not communicate your message clearly.

As for product marketing, it is unfortunately based on the lowest common denominator - increased price = increased value (i.e., preceived benefit). Whether or not those "features" are of any real benefit to the individual purchasing the product is never taken into account. That is what the sales professional's job is - understanding a customer's needs and communicating how features may or many not benefit THEM. This is called consultative selling. It helps to build consumer confidence in you and helps to distinguish you from your competitor - particularly in commodity sales which typically only rely on price as the differentiator. Try it, it works.

You address the 768p vs. 1080p issue by describing the how that factors into what sources you are using and what your seating distance is. Then the customer can take those matters into account and come to a decision as to what is "better" for them.

As for the rest of what you wrote, it was simply confusing and did not communicate your message clearly.

As for product marketing, it is unfortunately based on the lowest common denominator - increased price = increased value (i.e., preceived benefit). Whether or not those "features" are of any real benefit to the individual purchasing the product is never taken into account. That is what the sales professional's job is - understanding a customer's needs and communicating how features may or many not benefit THEM. This is called consultative selling. It helps to build consumer confidence in you and helps to distinguish you from your competitor - particularly in commodity sales which typically only rely on price as the differentiator. Try it, it works.

As one of the AVS "old timers", I can assure you that Robert's integrity and commitment to customer service are stellar. Many times he has championed concerns of forum members to the manufacturers, often with positive results.

And, like he said, he can't sell Pios outside of his local area, so his comments are not marketing per se. I have bought other products from him and had very positive experiences.

As one of the AVS "old timers", I can assure you that Robert's integrity and commitment to customer service are stellar. Many times he has championed concerns of forum members to the manufacturers, often with positive results.

And, like he said, he can't sell Pios outside of his local area, so his comments are not marketing per se. I have bought other products from him and had very positive experiences.

Fair enough, but I think the purpose of the comment is that something like "1080 is crisper, especially in facial features", etc., is a lot more telling than "1080 is a little better". What does better mean? What if my opinion on "better" is different than yours?

It's the same reason I can't stand the "Pioneer has better PQ hands down" argument -- especially when comparing the 5080/1150 to the 700u, for instance. What if I don't care about blacks? What if the noise inherent to Pioneers that Panasonics don't seem to have bothers me more than the ability to get 3x darker blacks? What if I really want that 1080 crispness? In those cases, the Panasonic PQ is "better" to me.

Basically, "better" is such an undescriptive word that it shouldn't be used in most cases, especially not if you're trying to explain a point or provide an oral "image". I think they taught this in 7th grade writing class. (That's not intended to be a derogatory comment.)

While in general I have signed onto the Pioneer line of thought (despite its few cons) at 7 feet I would MUCH prefer to be watching my 700u in late night shows, football games, MythBusters, etc., than my 1150hd. At 8-10 feet, that story starts to change. The word "better" would not have allowed me to assess this tradeoff.

TVs are like cars. You're most likely to have problems either right off the bat, or several (>4) years down the line. Could you have problems in the 2-4 year window? Sure. Is the expected value of a repair (probability times the cost if you had to fix it yourself) less than the warranty price? Of course. Only you can tell if you are going to be so hard-pressed in the 2-4 year window that you won't be able to pay the money yourself to fix it -- or at worst, buy a brand new TV (which will be cheaper at that point in time for equal-or-better quality). Personally, like most extended warranties, I don't think it's worth it. FWIW, Consumer Reports doesn't either.

My 5080 better be trouble free for more than 4 years:eek:

I've two old Hitachi CRT's that are still going strong with never having a failure of any sort. One is 18 years and the other is 19 years old.

My 5080 better be trouble free for more than 4 years:eek:

I've two old Hitachi CRT's that are still going strong with never having a failure of any sort. One is 18 years and the other is 19 years old.

...and it probably will. All I was addressing is the extended warranty. While I don't have hard data to base this on, your probability of something breaking between year 2 (for the 1150hd) and 4 is very small. Multiply this by the chance of something breaking at all (only 2-4% of Panny/Pio TVs ever have problems) and you should probably save your money on the warranty. That is, unless it's going to bother you every waking moment because you are paranoid of a problem occurring...

It's like a Honda Civic. If you have problems, they'll be right out of the gate. Then you'll go a good number of years without any problem, and eventually the car will start to die. But that extended warranty will be, in most cases, worthless.

You address the 768p vs. 1080p issue by describing the how that factors into what sources you are using and what your seating distance is. Then the customer can take those matters into account and come to a decision as to what is "better" for them.

As for the rest of what you wrote, it was simply confusing and did not communicate your message clearly.

As for product marketing, it is unfortunately based on the lowest common denominator - increased price = increased value (i.e., preceived benefit). Whether or not those "features" are of any real benefit to the individual purchasing the product is never taken into account. That is what the sales professional's job is - understanding a customer's needs and communicating how features may or many not benefit THEM. This is called consultative selling. It helps to build consumer confidence in you and helps to distinguish you from your competitor - particularly in commodity sales which typically only rely on price as the differentiator. Try it, it works.

Since we apparently can no longer use the word "better", perhaps we should also eliminate the word "never". Can you please provide your objective facts to support that "the individual purchasing the product is never taken into account"?
Thanks.

Deeper blacks and higher contrast ratio are the most important spec to overall image quality. Kuros' deeper blacks improve the pq in the following ways:

Deeper blacks give the image a more three dimensional look as their is more separation between all shades and colors. The blacker blacks give the picture a more saturated rich look that is more color accurate.

Deeper blacks deliver a higher contrast ratio that provides more detail and a finer more detailed looking image. More gradation and a smoother transition from dark to light. More tonal quality. The image actually looks sharper than most 1080p models.

Blacker black gives us a larger palette to create a wider range of colors.

And adding to the best black level and high contrast ratio Pioneer's new color filter and video processing and you get the best panel ever made.

-Robert

Notice, not once did I use the word better.

Since we apparently can no longer use the word "better", perhaps we should also eliminate the word "never". Can you please provide your objective facts to support that "the individual purchasing the product is never taken into account"?
Thanks.

Because marketing presumes the benefit of a feature in GENERAL terms without having specific facts about each individual customer's needs to justify something being marketed as "good, better, best". It really doesn't matter how marketing wants to position a product by creating a certain "value " preception, only the customer can make that value judgement as it relates to THEM. Since it is almost impossible for marketing to know the individual needs of each customer purchasing their product, marketing can "never take the individual purchasing the product into acount".

Thanks for the input. I generally have the mindset that a product will fail within the first year if it is going to fail. The nice thing about the elite pro over the PDP series is the 2 year warranty.

If you ask the leading ISF calibrators on the forum about picture quality, they will echo what Robert said - contrast and processing are key, along with color fidelity.

We all agree that resolution is a relatively minor factor at levels above 768p and at normal viewing distances..

Fair enough, but I think the purpose of the comment is that something like "1080 is crisper, especially in facial features", etc., is a lot more telling than "1080 is a little better". What does better mean? What if my opinion on "better" is different than yours?

It's the same reason I can't stand the "Pioneer has better PQ hands down" argument -- especially when comparing the 5080/1150 to the 700u, for instance. What if I don't care about blacks? What if the noise inherent to Pioneers that Panasonics don't seem to have bothers me more than the ability to get 3x darker blacks? What if I really want that 1080 crispness? In those cases, the Panasonic PQ is "better" to me.

Basically, "better" is such an undescriptive word that it shouldn't be used in most cases, especially not if you're trying to explain a point or provide an oral "image". I think they taught this in 7th grade writing class. (That's not intended to be a derogatory comment.)

While in general I have signed onto the Pioneer line of thought (despite its few cons) at 7 feet I would MUCH prefer to be watching my 700u in late night shows, football games, MythBusters, etc., than my 1150hd. At 8-10 feet, that story starts to change. The word "better" would not have allowed me to assess this tradeoff.

If you don't care about black levels, you don't care about contrast.

I have an ISF'd Panny 600u = nice set. My Pio unISF'd 4280 is superior in all respects. Noise level is not an issue on either set.

Thank you Trackman for confirming this new synergy we have evolved to and now need to recognize.

Go Duke!

-Robert

thinking about an pio 1150 vs. 5080? would like a 5010 but cant justify the extra $1K for 1080. would love some comments on the comparison:)

thinking about an pio 1150 vs. 5080? would like a 5010 but cant justify the extra $1K for 1080. would love some comments on the comparison:)

Check out the last few posts on this thread. It will make your decision easy...take the 1150HD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=989591&page=10

thanks lewdogg....that's seller is who i just go off the phone with.....if i decide 1150 i might head there this afternoon as once word gets out this weekend will be mad.

Is there any downside watching 1080p blu-ray on 1150HD from PQ wise?

yes.... SDE at less than 10'

and edges are jagged (not smooth) text, etc at less than 10 feet.

you can find this info on other threads... this is not the best one because the topic is about the reliability not about resolution.

Is there any downside watching 1080p blu-ray on 1150HD from PQ wise?

yes.... SDE at less than 10'

and edges are jagged (not smooth) text, etc at less than 10 feet.

you can find this info on other threads... this is not the best one because the topic is about the reliability not about resolution.

That is somewhat true. The graph actually shows that the difference between 1080 and 720 starts around 7ft. So anything after 7ft it all depends on your sight strength I guess.

Is there any downside watching 1080p blu-ray on 1150HD from PQ wise?

Yeah you lose half of your resolution:

1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels
1365 x 768 = 1,048,320 pixels


1080p is BETTER

and a Pioneer 768P Kuro is better than a Panasonic 1080P.

so what you said is not always true.

Yeah you lose half of your resolution:

1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels
1365 x 768 = 1,048,320 pixels


1080p is BETTER