I've checked some of the digital to analog converter boxes and they only seem to connect to the antenna and the tv. I'm wondering if I'll be able to use my VCR after the transition? Is there a way to connect it to the box? I assume the VCR also has a receiver, so it would probably have to receive a converted signal, right?

I've checked some of the digital to analog converter boxes and they only seem to connect to the antenna and the tv. I'm wondering if I'll be able to use my VCR after the transition? Is there a way to connect it to the box? I assume the VCR also has a receiver, so it would probably have to receive a converted signal, right?

To use a converter with an analog VCR you just connect either the RF or composite output of the converter to the inputs on the VCR.

You have to set the channel manually and (usually) shut off the default 4 hour converter shutdown timer in the converter. If you want to watch one channel on an analog TV while recording another, you need a second converter. If you don't need to watch one program while recording another, you can use one converter for both a VCR and a analog TV.

There is one converter (Echostar TR-40) that isn't availabile yet that has "VCR timer" in it's discription. No one seems to know exactly what this means.

I've checked some of the digital to analog converter boxes and they only seem to connect to the antenna and the tv. I'm wondering if I'll be able to use my VCR after the transition? Is there a way to connect it to the box? I assume the VCR also has a receiver, so it would probably have to receive a converted signal, right?


You should be able to connect the rf modulator output to the vcr's antenna input (channel 3/4). If your vcr accepts line input, the yellow composite output and red/white audio can connect to the same connectors on vcr; tune vcr to line or input #1.

The problem is that the vcr probably can't control the tuner in the converter. You'll have to leave the converter on, set to the right channel, then program vcr to record at right time the converted program on line (or channel 3/4) depending on how you input.

I do this now with a POS (yes, that's a quality term) Mitsubishi box and an analog tv. I plan to buy a new converter and hope it is better than this old (HD) box.
It is my "third program" backup assuming I am watching one on HDTV, recording one on HD DVR, and if there is a third program worth seeing, VCRing it, and watching on old, analog tv.

I've checked some of the digital to analog converter boxes and they only seem to connect to the antenna and the tv. I'm wondering if I'll be able to use my VCR after the transition? Is there a way to connect it to the box? I assume the VCR also has a receiver, so it would probably have to receive a converted signal, right?

You are correct, it would need a converted signal.

There are many ways to connect the VCR. The simplest method would be to take the antenna cable and connect it to the converter box's RF-in jack, connect the RF-out of the converter box to the VCR's RF-in jack, and then connect the RF-out from the VCR to the RF input of the TV. But this is far short of ideal. For one thing, passing the signal through as RF gives you the least quality picture. Assuming that your VCR and TV both have composite video/audio jacks, you could connect the antenna cable to the converter box's RF-in jack, connect the composite video output of the converter box to the composite input of the VCR and then connect the composite output of the VCR to the composite input of the TV. This will give you a better quality picture.

But now you face another dilemma. The converter box is now your sole tuner and can only tune one channel at a time. Not only that, but most of the converter boxes now available requires user intervention to change channels. So you cannot use this single box to watch one program while recording another. You also cannot record one program on one channel and then record another program at a later time on another channel without manually changing channels in-between.

Personally, I will be purchasing 2 boxes. One for the TV and one for the VCR. I will probably use the Zenith box because I generally do not record but once in a blue moon and then only one program at a time. This is also the reason I won't be springing for a digital recorder. I just can't justify spending any more than necessary for something used so seldom. You might consider the Echostar box, which is due out in June, for the VCR because it is reported to have a built-in VCR timer to change channels unattended.

Good luck.

On another note would you also be able to hook up a DVD recorder with built in DVR Hard Drive the same way?

On another note would you also be able to hook up a DVD recorder with built in DVR Hard Drive the same way?

Yes. If you have a DVD/HDD recorder that only has an analog tuner or no tuner at all you could hook it up to a converter box the same way you would a VCR.

And just like a VCR you would have to manually set the channel on the converter.

Another thing to consider that I have not seen addressed anywhere, if you are going to use 2 converter boxes. If the boxes are both going to be in the same room, make sure and get the boxes from different manufacturers (not just different brand labels). The reason is that they need to use different remote control codes. It would not be a good thing if you set your VCR box up to record on one channel and then someone used the remote to change channels on the TV box, thereby also changing channels on the VCR box.

Thanks guys. As you can tell I'm pretty much old school, but you've given me a lot of information to work with.

i have a Phillips DVD recorder that has a built in digital tuner. It will record to DVDs from digital OTA. I got it for $169 at Wal Mart. It will record DVD quality widecsreen from OTA HDTV. It will record to rewriteable DVDs also.

Rick R

i have a Phillips DVD recorder that has a built in digital tuner. It will record to DVDs from digital OTA. I got it for $169 at Wal Mart. It will record DVD quality widecsreen from OTA HDTV. It will record to rewriteable DVDs also.

Rick R

I've been interested in learning more about DVD recorders with built-in tuners because they should have closed caption decoders within the recorder. That's the best way to play DVDs at high resolution with captions over HDMI since HDMI doesn't transmit closed caption data.

If I may ask:

Can you use this DVD recorder as a digital-to-analog converter for an analog TV?

How high is the resolution that you can record to DVD?

Does it support digital caption features?

My understanding is that you can use an ATSC-equipped DVD Recorder to act as a standard definition quality digital TV receiver for your TV. HOWEVER you will only be able to watch the same channel as you are recording if you do this - as the DVD recorder becomes your only ATSC receiver.

You won't get HDTV quality this way - as all current DVD recorders with ATSC tuners only record and output an SD quality downconversion of HD - even when not recording. Any HDMI output at 720p or 1080i content, at 720p or 1080i/p HDMI resolution will have been downconverted to 480i and then upconverted back - so will not be full 720p or 1080i resolution - with current models. (It is hoped next generation ATSC DVD recorders will output HD in Live TV mode and only downconvert to SD for recording to disc)

The recorded quality should be 720x480 or 704x480 (i.e. standard SD DVD resolution) at the higher recording qualities (i.e. the ones that record less on each disc) and drop to 352x480 (i.e. half horizontal resolution) for the lower rate modes that record more on a disc. I don't know of any recorders that drop to 352x240 - though it is possible in theory as this is a supported resolution (Neither of my models have this mode, and no other model I have used has).

My understanding is that if the DVD Recorder with a digital OTA receiver in it lets you switch on closed captions when watching live TV, it should also record them "burned in" as open captions on a DVD recording.

I know some DVD Recorders use(d) the subtitles facility of the DVD format to allow you to see the original timecode of DV material pulled in over Firewire, by switching subtitles on and off. I don't know if any current DVD Recorders allow you to burn in closed captions using the subtitles graphics layer - I suspect not - and I suspect they don't convert ATSC subtitles to a format that can be output as closed captions for TV decoding.

In my experience, in the UK, DVD recorders burn in subtitles to the recording, whilst OTA DVRs record the subtitle data stream separately and let you switch subtitles on or off whilst replaying, just as if you were watching live TV. (DVD players decode the digital OTA video, audio and subtitles data when they record, most OTA DVRs don't and instead record these streams as is and decode them on playback - which is why they don't have recording quality settings) I realies OTA DVRs are quite rare in the US and may behave differently - but I suspect they will be similar - though I don't think there will be SD-only models.

I use an antenna splitter so my DVD recorder can record while I am watching a different program using my other OTA tuner for watching live. The recording is DVD quality which is much better than analog OTA.

Actually my main use of the DVD recorder is to copy HD shows from my DVR to DVD for retention. I use the s-video out of my Dish Network 622 DVR to do the DVD recording. This results in a widescreen commercial DVD quality DVD.

Rick R

Be aware that with the ATSC tuners in DVD recorders, you usually can't program out the subchannels. You have to delete the whole channel to get rid of them. So if any subchannels are foriegn language, religious, shopping, children's, etc., if you want the main one, you're stuck with having to scan through all those, too.

This might not be such an issue if you're not using it as your main, viewing tuner. If you have an HD display, you shouldn't really be doing that, anyway.

Be aware that with the ATSC tuners in DVD recorders, you usually can't program out the subchannels. You have to delete the whole channel to get rid of them.
Yes the Philips 3575 acts this way, and IMO it's really short sited. All the EZ Panny DVDR's w/digital tuners lets you delete just one of many sub channels, like most? TV's I would think. Not sure what other brands do about sub channels, but I personally would only want a device that would let me delete specific sub channels. I guess this is a consideration with the new converter boxes. I suppose they could go either way.
I know which way I would want. One more thing to add to my wish list for converter boxes:confused: Between that, S-out and VCR type timer I think I've eliminated pretty much every box:( Time will tell.

Didn't realize you could do it with the Pannies. That's good to know.

I had heard around here that you couldn't do it with some other recorders either, so I just assumed that it was probably that way with most of them. Maybe not, though.

It was definitely one thing I didn't like about the Philips and Maggie, because there's quite a few here I prefer to block out. Being Chicago naturally there's a lot of ethnic stuff.

Which TV Converter Boxes allow 'mapping' the Digital channels to VHF/UHF channels (not 3/4) to permit scheduling recording of TV programs by time and channel?

I tried this question at ntiadtv.custhelp.com and 1-888-DTV-2009. They are not authorized to provide technical support.

We have an antenna in the attic with Video amplifier in the basement feeding two analog VCR-TVs and one analog DVR-TV. Of the converter boxes I have heard about, only a handful allow 'passthrough'. I need a lot more than that!

Help Please!

Which TV Converter Boxes allow 'mapping' the Digital channels to VHF/UHF channels (not 3/4) to permit scheduling recording of TV programs by time and channel?

None do. That would require a separate tuner and RF modulator for each channel.

About the best you can do is get a CECB that has "VCR Timers" to auto-change channels. So far is is exactly ONE that has been advertised with that feature, and it's not shipping until late May / June (the Echostar / Sling Media TR40).

None do. That would require a separate tuner and RF modulator for each channel.

This hurts! That is millions of VCRs and DVRs to the dump!

Are there any specs out on the Echostar / Sling Media TR40?

Why do they need to go to the dump ? All you need is a CECB (see www.dtv2009.gov for details) and your VCR will continue to record. You would use the CECB as your tuner instead of the built in NTSC (analog) one.

Also - they are perfectly usable with most cable systems that still have analog cable programming. Which covers about 85% of the American public.

This hurts! That is millions of VCRs and DVRs to the dump!

Are there any specs out on the Echostar / Sling Media TR40?

On the other hand, there is no technical reason why a non-CECB converter box couldn't have a programmable timer and IR blaster built in so it could control an analog recorder.

As to whether any company will apply the necessary resources to do it remains to be seen. Actually I think an old Vic 20 has all the processing power needed to do the programming and running two IR blasters to control both a CECB and and analog recorder.

I wonder if there's some cheap hardware that can be reprogrammed to do the job.

Hmmm, what kind of hardware would Myth need to just run the programming and IR parts? MythPuppy perhaps?

Which TV Converter Boxes allow 'mapping' the Digital channels to VHF/UHF channels (not 3/4) to permit scheduling recording of TV programs by time and channel?

I tried this question at ntiadtv.custhelp.com and 1-888-DTV-2009. They are not authorized to provide technical support.

We have an antenna in the attic with Video amplifier in the basement feeding two analog VCR-TVs and one analog DVR-TV. Of the converter boxes I have heard about, only a handful allow 'passthrough'. I need a lot more than that!

Help Please!

There does (or did) exist boxes for apartment buildings that allow security cameras to be feed out as multiple UHF channels on the main antenna feed. HOWEVER, buy the time you add the cost of this box PLUS the cost of all the converters required, it not cost effective for home use. Boxes for; ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, One Other Independent Station, (6 total) would be $50 x 6 = $300, plus about another $300 for the 6 video input --> 6 UHF output box. So about $600 or so.

The best bet is to get one box for each device. It would be ideal to have one antenna for each device but if the signal strength of the stations is strong enough, a splitter can be used.

If you want to record multiple things over time, you might be able to get your VCR to switch between Channel 3 and Video1, but that would take 2 boxes. Some VCRs have 2 inputs; Video1 and Video2, so you could switch between 3 boxes. (Video1, Video2, and Channel3)

I've never tried this, but an antenna splitter should be able to work backwards. That is the outputs of two boxes (One box on channel 3 and the other on channel 4) go to the inputs of the splitter. Then, the input of the splitter goes to RF In on the TV. Thus, if it works and I'm not 100% sure it will, you should be able to select between channel 3 and 4 for the different stations.

As soon I I get my coupons, I'll get a second box and try it....


Bob Diaz

Doing a channel 3/4 combining doesn't work very well without one of these http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=40-SC4 or the channel 3 version of it.

Why do they need to go to the dump ? All you need is a CECB and your VCR will continue to record. You would use the CECB as your tuner instead of the built in NTSC (analog) one.

Also - they are perfectly usable with most cable systems that still have analog cable programming. Which covers about 85% of the American public.

My biggest concern is our analog DVR (TiVo) that I have been hoping to use as a backup recorder by specifying the channel and time.

We are strictly OTA Antenna in the attic. (NO RECURRING COST). Our lifetime TiVo service was a gift and has been a real pleasure. I did buy a HDTV and Digital TiVo box. My wife was surprised at the prices.

Then you need to find a CECB that your Tivo can change the channels on. Just like using a TIVO with a DBS receiver, or cable box.

cia_viewer - what you are suggesting IS possible, but you're not going to like the price.

Let's say you want a "turnkey" system that will convert 7 channels digital to analog, where you can tune any of them from any location. 7 channels = ABC, CBS, CW, FOX, NBC, My, and PBS .

Start off with 7 of the CECB boxes - most of them are running $50-$60 each full price. Then you need one of these http://www.smarthome.com/7780s.html for each channel (total of 7 @ $65 each) . Now, you need a distribution amp from your antenna to each of the CECB's, and another one after you combine the outputs of the 7 modulators into 1 output to be distributed to all the other TV receivers (such as your TIVO, etc.) Keep in mind that each system needs to be kept isolated from the other.

I'm sure you can see that this is not generally a very good idea unless you've got an ungodly number of analog TVs - (I'm thinking this kind of rig MIGHT be practical for a MDU type setup - but this doesn't get HDTV anywhere yet).

My biggest concern is our analog DVR (TiVo) that I have been hoping to use as a backup recorder by specifying the channel and time.

We are strictly OTA Antenna in the attic. (NO RECURRING COST). Our lifetime TiVo service was a gift and has been a real pleasure. I did buy a HDTV and Digital TiVo box. My wife was surprised at the prices.Maybe try the Digital Stream from Radio Shack. If it's anything like the last Digital Stream HD ATSC model that was out, it can be controlled by an IR blaster with a Pioneer cable box code. Can't change it to subchannels, though. I don't think the TiVo can do that with any box. I could be wrong, though.

No guarantee it's going to use a Pioneer code still - but RS takes returns.

I don't watch tv but to use my playstation and VCR and DVD. do i need a box?

I don't watch tv but to use my playstation and VCR and DVD. do i need a box?

all those devices will continue to work just as always (until they eventually break down of their own accord). you only need a converter box if you watch tv in the usa and use an antenna to supply your signal.

I have basic cable and am confused when they say if you have cable (or satelite) you need do nothing. So, if my old tv in back room is plugged into cable wall outlet (WITH NO SET-TOP BOX) will it still work after Feb. conversion?

Thanks,
Randy

I have basic cable and am confused when they say if you have cable (or satelite) you need do nothing. So, if my old tv in back room is plugged into cable wall outlet (WITH NO SET-TOP BOX) will it still work after Feb. conversion?

Thanks,
Randy

Check with your cable company - but probably yes.
Several cable companies are working on making their plant completely digital, but they probably aren't there yet.

I have basic cable and am confused when they say if you have cable (or satelite) you need do nothing. So, if my old tv in back room is plugged into cable wall outlet (WITH NO SET-TOP BOX) will it still work after Feb. conversion?

Thanks,
Randy

You will be fine for now. Eventually the cableco's will switch basic cable from analog to digital but that is some time in the future.

I have basic cable and am confused when they say if you have cable (or satelite) you need do nothing. So, if my old tv in back room is plugged into cable wall outlet (WITH NO SET-TOP BOX) will it still work after Feb. conversion?

Thanks,
Randy

your basic cable service will continue to work without the DTV converter box most frequently referred to as a CECB (coupon eligible converter box) which is only for use with signals from a rooftop antenna or rabbit ears. the transition only affects terrestrial broadcast not cable service or satellite.

The only way to be sure (and even then, not, if your techs are like the ones I talked to) is to call. Pay services are dealing with this differently, and there are exceptions to rules about providing analog signal or digital boxes. There is a voluntary moratorium on changes to digital until March 1, but it does not apply where they've already sent notices out. Comcast is moving extended basic analog channels to digital starting this month in Salem and next month in Eugene, OR. They will provide households with a digital box and up to 2 digital adapters, beyond that adapters are $2/mo each. The fine print probably says the freebies go away in a year. Locals and public service (basic) are staying analog. A CECB will not work on cable, the adapter boxes Comcast supplies are made for cable.

Thanks for all the quick responses. That clarifies it for me.

Randy

I hope someone can help me on this.

I have an analog TV and an analog VCR. I purchased the Zenith (I think) converter box from Radio Shack. I am not at home right now, however I did hook it up according to the instructions and it seemed to work fine and I was able to get the menu and scan the channels, etc. with the remote that came with the converter box.

While I was watching TV, which gave me a MUCH better picture, I accidentally picked up my other remote that I was using for my TV and clicked to change channels and the picture went fuzzy and it seemed to change all my channels back to my previous analog. The converter box light did go to red from green. When I tried to use the remote that came with the converter box again, it wouldn't work. I tried the power switch, channels, volume and menu, etc and nothing worked except sometimes the light would go back to green. But even though it was green it still wouldn't let me use the menu, volume, channel keys, etc. I powered everything down and unplugged everything from electrical outlet, powered all back up and it I still couldn't use the remote for the converter box and my TV was back to analog even though everything is still hooked up to converter box.

I am by no means electronic savvy, so bear with me. I must have had it all hooked up correctly if I had it working initially. It was just when I accidentally used my old TV remote to change channel by mistake and now I can't get the new remote and converter box to work like it was when I initially hooked it up.

Please help! I have been everywhere on the net trying to find a resolution but nothing comes close to the problem I am having

I hope someone can help me on this.

I have an analog TV and an analog VCR. I purchased the Zenith (I think) converter box from Radio Shack. I am not at home right now, however I did hook it up according to the instructions and it seemed to work fine and I was able to get the menu and scan the channels, etc. with the remote that came with the converter box.

While I was watching TV, which gave me a MUCH better picture, I accidentally picked up my other remote that I was using for my TV and clicked to change channels and the picture went fuzzy and it seemed to change all my channels back to my previous analog. The converter box light did go to red from green. When I tried to use the remote that came with the converter box again, it wouldn't work. I tried the power switch, channels, volume and menu, etc and nothing worked except sometimes the light would go back to green. But even though it was green it still wouldn't let me use the menu, volume, channel keys, etc. I powered everything down and unplugged everything from electrical outlet, powered all back up and it I still couldn't use the remote for the converter box and my TV was back to analog even though everything is still hooked up to converter box.

I am by no means electronic savvy, so bear with me. I must have had it all hooked up correctly if I had it working initially. It was just when I accidentally used my old TV remote to change channel by mistake and now I can't get the new remote and converter box to work like it was when I initially hooked it up.

Please help! I have been everywhere on the net trying to find a resolution but nothing comes close to the problem I am having


if using the antenna input on your tv then the tv has to be tuned to channel 3 (this has to agree with the channel the converter box is set to output, it is either 3 or 4).

once you tuned your tv away from channel 3 you would not see anything from the converter box. to use the converter box you leave your tv tuned to channel 3 and change the channels with only the converter box.

turn the converter box off, turn on the tv and tune it to channel 3. turn on the converter box, hopefully you will get a picture.

i don't know from your description what converter box you have, the Zenith colors are red and blue. most converter boxes will allow some volume control using that boxes remote also, so you can get away with not using the tv remote much.

oh duh! :confused:

Never gave that a thought to switch the TV remote to channel 4! That was waaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy!! I am embarrassed now :(

Thanks for the help :D

I assume the VCR also has a receiver, so it would probably have to receive a converted signal, right?
Yes, if your VCR doesn't have a built-in ATSC tuner.

Which I'm pretty sure is a certainty because I've never heard of a VCR with an ATSC tuner, except for some DVD recorder / VCR combination units. And with at least some of them, you can record from the ATSC tuner only to DVD, not to tape.

Yes, there is a VCR with an ATSC tuner: JVC HM-DT100

I have a Panasonic DVD/VCR combo, Sharp flat screen TV Aquos(Mfg 2002) using APEX converter box. The DVD works just fine (sound and pic) but the VCR has sound only, no pic (setting on channel AV1). I confirmed the VHS tape works on another unit. Both work fine on AV1 when the box is removed. Any clues?

How is the box connected to the VCR?

Is there a way to find out how many channels the converter boxes will be picking up? I dont wana buy one that wont give me alot of channels. If someone can please help!

Is there a way to find out how many channels the converter boxes will be picking up? I dont wana buy one that wont give me alot of channels. If someone can please help!

go to tvfool.com

enter your address and it will tell you the channels you might get.

many stations have 2 or 3 subchannels

So it doesnt matter which box you buy? It's just going to depend on where you live that will determine the channels you will be receiving?

There have been reports that the Insigna boxes at Best Buy, a clone of the Zenith boxes at Circuit City and Radio Shack, have the best reception.

Rick R

I have basic cable and am confused when they say if you have cable (or satelite) you need do nothing. So, if my old tv in back room is plugged into cable wall outlet (WITH NO SET-TOP BOX) will it still work after Feb. conversion?

Thanks,
Randy
If you have cable, you need to do nothing. End of story.

At some point, your cableco will begin to eliminate analog channels, they will offer you various options, including your use of a cable box.

Again, this has nothing to do with the Digital TV conversion, which has been moved to June 12, 2009. Roughly 1/3 of the analog stations did stick to the original February 17, 2009 date, and the rest will go off before June 12, 2009. If you didn't have cable or DBS, and relied solely on an antenna (indoor or outdoor) for TV reception, the Digital TV transition would mean you'd need a converter box to continue to receive TV.

So it doesnt matter which box you buy? It's just going to depend on where you live that will determine the channels you will be receiving?In general, yes, but some boxes are better than others in some areas.

The poll at the top of this forum indicates the Zenith (also available as Insignia brand), Channel Master, and Digital Stream are the best choices.

If you have cable, you need to do nothing. End of story.

At some point, your cableco will begin to eliminate analog channels, they will offer you various options, including your use of a cable box...


The cable industry association has indicated a strong desire to eliminate analog this year. Each company can set their own time table for that cutoff, however.

Cable subscribers who don't use a cable company box on one or more TVs, should pay close attention to correspondence from their cable companies - especially after the June OTA transition. There may be limited time offers to get one box at no monthly charge. If you have 4 (non-QAM equipped) TVs hooked to basic cable now, you may have to rent 3 (or 4!) boxes to do the same in 2010.

I know lots of folks who have basic cable, but refuse to rent the cable boxes.
They may have no choice later this year, unless they want to cancel their subscriptions.

Friends who subscribe to family basic/ emergency basic/ locals only packages, who have also recently bought QAM capable TVs, have been surprised to find they suddenly receive many more channels. In some cases 120 channels (for something like $15/mo). I warn them not to get too used to that windfall, as cable companies are likely to encrypt all but the local channels not long after going all digital.

Why? Because they must provide the "locals only" level option at modest cost. Without encryption, $15/mo subscribers (with clear QAM equipment) can get the benefits of regular basic packages and sometimes more at no additional monthly cost. What cable company will tolerate that for long?

I just purchased the Dish Network DTVPal converter box, & hooked it up & only get 8channels. all local.
I still have my cable service connected, so am i gona have to cancel the cable in order to see more channels?
I hooked up my aunt's converter box & she has no cable & she was getting 78channels!
So I dont wana cancel my cable service if im not gona receive as much channels as my aunt was receiving. That's why I bought the box. If I can get the same channels im getting with my cable service for free, than why keep paying for cable? I just want to make sure though that I am goin to get all those channels before canceling, because then they charge you a fee to install the cable all over again!

Yes, there is a VCR with an ATSC tuner: JVC HM-DT100

And it costs $1,500:

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/jvchmdivhshd1.html

I just purchased the Dish Network DTVPal converter box, & hooked it up & only get 8channels. all local.
I still have my cable service connected, so am i gona have to cancel the cable in order to see more channels?
I hooked up my aunt's converter box & she has no cable & she was getting 78channels!
So I dont wana cancel my cable service if im not gona receive as much channels as my aunt was receiving. That's why I bought the box. If I can get the same channels im getting with my cable service for free, than why keep paying for cable? I just want to make sure though that I am goin to get all those channels before canceling, because then they charge you a fee to install the cable all over again!


Let's see... where do you live, and where does your aunt live? Does she have an outdoor antenna? Need more info.

You will NOT get EVERY channel that you can get with cable, because some of them are cable only - ESPN, MTV, C-SPAN, on and on. But if you don't mind losing them, and you are OK with watching just network TV, then cancel your cable and use the extra money for something else!

this may be addressed somewhere but I am not tech savy to be able to find it, A friend told me about this site so if someone could help a 80 year old figure this out I would be most grateful or direct me to a link that I think I can figure out. The library helped me get to this point.
I purchased the panasonic digital vcr/dvd recorder thinking that I could record like days gone by to a vhs tape for my wife. However, when they ran the test and I had the recorder on it stated that no digital signal was found, So I called panasonic and they informed me to my dismay that I cannot record to the vcr and dvd seems a little to complicated for this brain of mine
It was suggested that I get a converter box and that would work, so I got one zinwell and one dtvpal because the gov site said that was the only 2 that would work with a vcr
HOWEVER< I must be doing something wrong because it is not recording. Does my tv need to be set different? everything is snowy when I turn the vcr and the converter box on
Do I set the converter box AND the vcr for my programs or just one?I have one analog and one digital tv and I also have my old analog vcr along with this new one
thank you very much in advance!
and what are the steps

Don't panic. Take everything step-by-step
I purchased the panasonic digital vcr/dvd recorder thinking that I could record like days gone by to a vhs tape for my wife. However, when they ran the test and I had the recorder on it stated that no digital signal was found, So I called panasonic and they informed me to my dismay that I cannot record to the vcr and dvd seems a little to complicated for this brain of mine
This may indicate two problems. Lack of a digital signal (or antenna problem) and lack of the ability to record to the VCR from the internal tuner. It would have taken research and knowledge past most person's ability to determine which combo (DVD/VCR) units would record to the tape half.
It was suggested that I get a converter box and that would work, so I got one zinwell and one dtvpal because the gov site said that was the only 2 that would work with a vcr These were suggested because they have internal timers that allow them to change their own channels without your intervention. Any CECB would work for recording but you would need to leave the box on to the desired channel ahead of time.
HOWEVER< I must be doing something wrong because it is not recording. Does my tv need to be set different? everything is snowy when I turn the vcr and the converter box onYou need to remember that the box is now your tuner and it converts everything to a specific, single output on Channel 3 (coax cable) and composite video/audio (Yellow/Red/White). Your recorder then has to be set to record that signal not the original channel. As far as the TV goes, you must always monitor the recorder.
Do I set the converter box AND the vcr for my programs or just one?I have one analog and one digital tv and I also have my old analog vcr along with this new one
thank you very much in advance!
and what are the steps
Your first step is to tune in your digital channels and see if you have reception and correct antenna hookups. Further instructions should wait until that is done. (In my opinion) I would start with one of the converter boxes. Connect your antenna to it and connect it to the TV with no other equipment attached. Put the TV on channel 3 (using the Yellow/Red/White cables may be a desired method but first things first) and turn the box on and run setup or a channel scan. The instructions that come with the box are usually pretty good for basic setup. You will eventually want to check your local forum for specifics of reception in your area. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45
Once you see if you can get a digital tuner working, then you can think about setting up the recorder and other box. I hesitate to offer further instructions until you can sort out any antenna or reception problems.

this may be addressed somewhere but I am not tech savy to be able to find it, A friend told me about this site so if someone could help a 80 year old figure this out I would be most grateful or direct me to a link that I think I can figure out. The library helped me get to this point.
I purchased the panasonic digital vcr/dvd recorder thinking that I could record like days gone by to a vhs tape for my wife. However, when they ran the test and I had the recorder on it stated that no digital signal was found, So I called panasonic and they informed me to my dismay that I cannot record to the vcr and dvd seems a little to complicated for this brain of mine
It was suggested that I get a converter box and that would work, so I got one zinwell and one dtvpal because the gov site said that was the only 2 that would work with a vcr
HOWEVER< I must be doing something wrong because it is not recording. Does my tv need to be set different? everything is snowy when I turn the vcr and the converter box on
Do I set the converter box AND the vcr for my programs or just one?I have one analog and one digital tv and I also have my old analog vcr along with this new one
thank you very much in advance!
and what are the steps
Are you using an antenna or cable for your TV signal?

good morning, the box is set up, but I am using coax as the red yello cables did not come with the converter box
the vcr programing is just straght numbers 2,5,7 etc
but the converter says 2.1 , 5.2,5.3,7.1
so how do the find each other
by tv is old and it was preprogramed for an input of channel 4
would it be best for me not to use the digial vcr and use my old one?
Is the digital tuner in the vcr messing everything up?
Panasonic said that the dmr ez48v can only record from a vhs to a dvd and cannot record from television to a dvd (even though I have no clue how to do it, but the instrucionts show what I think is recording from a tv???
What good is a dvd recorder if you cannot record on it except to transfer tapes.this is so confusing, I was up to 2 in the morning trying to figure this all outl. My neighbors all have cable so they cannot help me and I cannot afford cable.
thanks to all that will try to help this old gal

good morning, the box is set up, but I am using coax as the red yello cables did not come with the converter box
the vcr programing is just straght numbers 2,5,7 etc
but the converter says 2.1 , 5.2,5.3,7.1


>so how do the find each other

They don't. When you set up the converter box you selected either channel 3 or 4 for its output. As far as your VCR knows, it is recording channel 3 or 4. When you are recording from the converter, you always set the VCR to channel 3 or 4.

You set the channel you want to watch on the converter box.

If you want to program recordings, you program the VCR for times to record and you program the (zinwell or dtvpal) converter for channel changes.

You might find it easier to understand if you used composite cables (yellow/red/white) rather than the coax to connect the converter to the VCR, that way you just set the VCR to record from the VCR's A/V inputs

----------------------------------

>Panasonic said that the dmr ez48v can only record from a vhs to a dvd >and cannot record from television to a dvd (even though I have no clue

According to the EZ48V manual, you can record analog inputs to the VCR. To do this I suggest that you connect one of the converters to the EZ48V's A/V input. See page 7 (item 7) in the manual for the location. You should then be able to set the converter to the channel you want and have the EZ48V to record it on it's A/V #1 input.

It's possible to use the coax cable to connect the converter to the EZ48V, but then you have to remember to set the EZ48V to the output channel of the converter (3 or 4). This would seem to be another detail to confuse you though.

Manual for EZ48V
http://www.panasonic.ca/PDP/OperatingInstructions/dmrez48-oi-eng.pdf

Place to order inexpensive cables
http://www.monoprice.com

Ok, I thought i had everything ok
I programed the dtvpal to the channel and time I wanted then I programed the panasonic dmrez48 for the time I wanted put the channel would not let me put in 3 or 4, so I picked in1 and the recorder when on as programmed BUT all I got was black on the playback. So what happened
I went out and bought an av cable from best buy, but they know nothing about the box, so could not help me
So now how do I hook all that up and set the recorders, keep in mind , my tv is 20 years old and has only the push on plug not the yellow red white, the guy at the store said I needed another box to plug the yellow red white into and then use the coax from that to the tv
NOW I have that box, the converter box and the vcr, what a mess
I cannot find in either manual how to hook all this together
thank you again from a non technical person

You selected in1 but you didn't have the box connected to in1, so you ended up recording black.

On a side note; how old is the Panasonic and does the dealer have a liberal return policy? That particular recorder obviously does not fit your needs. If it is possible, then exchanging it for a model that will record to the VCR would be your best choice. I know that the JVC DR-MV100B will record to the VCR from it's digital tuner (~$200). I'm sure that there are others but that was the one that I bought as a backup to my PC tuners.

It is possible to work with what you have but the complication is that each one was designed to operate alone. You will need to have all three devices (TV, Recorder, Converter box) on to watch TV and you will not be able to watch one channel while recording another one.

Connect your antenna to the converter box. Connect the A/V cables from the box to in1 on the DVD Recorder. Connect the short coax cable from the DVD Recorder to the TV. (No other cables at this time!)

Turn TV on and put it on channel 4. You will leave the TV on Ch4 from now on. (since that seems to be your preferred channel but remember that virtually all the external devices come defaulted to Ch3 so a "no picture" at any point might require you to temporarily select Ch3 on the TV to reset the other device to Ch4)

Turn the DVD Recorder on and select in1 and VCR. You will leave the Recorder on in1 from now on. At this point you should be able to watch a VCR playback on the TV but the screen will be blank when you stop playback except for the Recorder's menu. You should also be able to watch DVDs on the TV now by selecting DVD and putting a disk in. You will generally need to switch the Recorder from DVD to VCR manually.

Turn the converter box on. You should now see the box's startup screen and shortly the channel that it is tuned into on the TV. You can now watch TV using the converter box's remote to change channels (you will need all three devices turned on to watch TV). You can now record to the VCR whatever channel the converter box is set to.

Once you are comfortable with this procedure, then you/we can move on to timer recording, splitters, A/B switches, second box, etc.

You do not need the new box (RF Modulator) and probably never will. Splitters and switches maybe, but the converter boxes and Recorders have built in modulators.

the panasonic does record now, however it cannot record digital stations and I was told that NO VCR can do that by several sources unless it goes through a converter box which will convert the digital signal to analog which a vhs tape will record. So I am just trying to get it set up for the complete conversion

Smpowell
do you know how to change the vcr to see channel 3 or 4?
I could not seem to get it to stay there because during the scan it eliminated those and on the program menu, there are only the choices of the scanned station s and the in1 or in2 which I guess I need the yellow red white cord for but my tv does not have that hook up
I feel like I am going back to school. I just learned how to use a computer , Kinda, a few years ago. thank you

the panasonic does record now, however it cannot record digital stations and I was told that NO VCR can do that by several sources unless it goes through a converter box which will convert the digital signal to analog which a vhs tape will record. So I am just trying to get it set up for the complete conversion

do you know how to change the vcr to see channel 3 or 4?
I could not seem to get it to stay there because during the scan it eliminated those and on the program menu, there are only the choices of the scanned station s and the in1 or in2 which I guess I need the yellow red white cord for but my tv does not have that hook up
I feel like I am going back to school. I just learned how to use a computer , Kinda, a few years ago. thank you

if you want to use the antenna coax to connect the converter box to the vcr, then turn the converter box on and do a channel scan on the vcr. it should find 3 or 4 what ever the converter box is set to output.

alternately you could use the yellow jack on the converter box to the yellow jack input on the vcr. you select this by either channel 0, AV input, video input (whatever your vcr has).

Once a Panasonic EZ series DVD recorder is connected to an antenna and the channels have been scanned and the clock is set, digital and analog channels may be viewed normally and/or recorded on a DVD. There is no need to connect a converter box to a DMR-EZ48V. A converter box is an unnecessary complication. Use the converter box on another analog TV that isn't used with a time-shifting device.

When a Panasonic combo recorder is powered on it is in RF pass through mode (bypassing the Panasonic's digital and analog tuners). In order to cause the RF output to carry a modulated signal press SCHEDULE to open the schedule menu and then press SCHEDULE again to close the schedule menu. The RF output is now modulated and will feed a RF signal to the TV via the coaxial cable connection. Use the Panasonic remote to select the various digital and analog channels.

Due to the EZ series integration of analog and digital sub-channels into a single tuning sequence there will be a momentary delay in displaying channels, especially when moving between analog and digital channels. If the EZ series recorder is rushed into changing channels too quickly, the machine may freeze up, requiring the pressing of the recessed reset button behind the fold down door on the front panel.

Once the full power analog channels have disappeared in June rescan the channels. That should speed up "channel-surfing."

>Smpowell
>do you know how to change the vcr to see channel 3 or 4?

>I could not seem to get it to stay there because during the scan it eliminated >those and on the program menu,

Try the following. Go into the converter's menu and make sure the "auto shutdown feature" is turned off. Make sure the converter is turned on (not stand-by) when the EZ or VCR "scans" for input channels.

Or you could just use the composite (yellow/red/white) cables I recommended and avoid having to worry about how the EZ or VCR scans for input channels.

>there are only the choices of the scanned station s and the in1 or in2 which I >guess I need the yellow red white cord for but my tv does not have that >hook up

>my tv is 20 years old and has only the push on plug not the yellow red >white, the guy at the store said I needed another box to plug the yellow >red white into and then use the coax from that to the tv

The "guy at the store" didn't know what he was talking about. The yellow/white/red cable is used to connect the converter box to the EZ's A/V 1 input (page 7 - item 7 in the manual). All you need to connect the EZ to your TV is a coax cable connected to the EZ's "RF out" (See page 7 - item 3). As far as your TV is concerned, it will think it's watching analog channel 3 or 4.

I live in West Los Angeles, California, close to Santa Monica. I've spent days trying to educate myself from member postings on many TV converter general and brand name threads. I've got two extra coupons from a friend, and I'm ready to buy the appropriate converter(s). Now I need your considered advice on proper setup for my needs, and best converters for that.

CURRENT SETUP: A 36" Sony FD Trinitron WEGA (9 year old TV set: sharp and beautiful video with good audio). A Toshiba HDMI DVD Player/VCR Combo(4 years old: plays DVDs and VHS well). A Panasonic VCR (about 10 years old with VCRplus Gold which was never set up). Would like to keep them all, as long as they work well. I have a good rooftop antenna (about 30 feet high from ground), properly positioned.

4 months ago I got a Zenith DTT901 Converter (has analog pass-through), hooked it up and it has given me beautiful broadcasts on 22 channels, which become 65 stations with the sub-channels. I watch about half of those stations (not interested in Korean, Armenian, Mandarin, shopping or Spanish soap operas), so I'm fully covered. I do a lot of analog taping (use Channel 3 on the TV set), quite often watching one show, while taping two others. By using 8 hour tapes (on SLP) I can tape 16 hours while I'm away from home for 2-3 weeks.

The Antenna cable goes to the Zenith converter "From Antenna" socket. The cable from the Zenith RF Out connects to a Splitter. One splitter cable connects to one VCR, the other to the other VCR. I use an A/B Connector with 3 cables going to the VCRs and the TV, in order to tape each VCR independently (obviously only when in Analog mode).

I have never had any problems taping those VCRs, and want to continue doing so when we switch to all-digital on June 12. However, a) my Zenith converter won't program weeks in advance, so I need one that does; and b) since I will need to program through a converter (not the VCRs anymore, if I understand correctly), then the current setup with the splitter and the A/B switch won't work (again, if I understand correctly). Therefore, please help me first understand what kind of set-up I need:

1) To watch one show and tape two more to the two VCRs - do I need 3 converters: one to watch and two to tape at the same time? If so, how do I hook them up: one to each VCR with a triple splitter and one to the TV? Someone mentioned using Composite cables to get better reception - does that help? How? What's the set-up then?

2) Is there a way to use only two converters that program the VCRs (I'll disconnect the Zenith) and which allow me to watch also? How?

3) Whether I need two or three converters for my ideal set-up, from all the postings I've read it seems that my best bets for Electronic Program Guide programming VCRs (assuming they can be properly adjusted and programmed) are the Dish DTVPal Plus, and the Zinwell ZAT-950A, to take advantage of the latest advanced tuners, for Picture Quality and Sensitivity.

Questions: Have I missed any other converters for my needs? Do you know of any others coming soon on the market that suggest waiting a bit? The Dish seems to disconnect the timing occasionally, thus taping a program I don't want to tape; and I'm not sure the "auto shutdown" feature can be turned off. I prefer to buy at a retail store (for easier return of a faulty unit): the Dish is available at Sears, but Albertson's in L.A. only seems to carry the ZAT-970A when in stock (not as good for me as the 950A?).

Could you please summarize what works and does not in whichever model you recommend? I have adapted myself to the 4 remotes I use currently (might investigate a universal one once I'm fully set-up) which keeps my brain neurons fit and healthy, but I'm far from a tech geek, and would prefer simple instructions (visual works also).

Finally, after reading so many threads at AVS, I just admire the dedication and patience of the members and senior members who take the time to answer questions from us confused members. Especially in these difficult economic times when we try to save our pennies, it feels caring to be helped. Thank you!

Responses in BOLD below
(I'm tired right now so excuse me if I do not address each question in detail, leave something out...)


RE:
ImagineAll;16183520]I live in West Los Angeles, California, close to Santa Monica. I've spent days trying to educate myself from member postings on many TV converter general and brand name threads. I've got two extra coupons from a friend, and I'm ready to buy the appropriate converter(s). Now I need your considered advice on proper setup for my needs, and best converters for that.

CURRENT SETUP: A 36" Sony FD Trinitron WEGA (9 year old TV set: sharp and beautiful video with good audio). A Toshiba HDMI DVD Player/VCR Combo(4 years old: plays DVDs and VHS well). A Panasonic VCR (about 10 years old with VCRplus Gold which was never set up). Would like to keep them all, as long as they work well. I have a good rooftop antenna (about 30 feet high from ground), properly positioned.

4 months ago I got a Zenith DTT901 Converter (has analog pass-through), hooked it up and it has given me beautiful broadcasts on 22 channels, which become 65 stations with the sub-channels. I watch about half of those stations (not interested in Korean, Armenian, Mandarin, shopping or Spanish soap operas), so I'm fully covered. I do a lot of analog taping (use Channel 3 on the TV set), quite often watching one show, while taping two others. By using 8 hour tapes (on SLP) I can tape 16 hours while I'm away from home for 2-3 weeks.

The Antenna cable goes to the Zenith converter "From Antenna" socket. The cable from the Zenith RF Out connects to a Splitter. One splitter cable connects to one VCR, the other to the other VCR. I use an A/B Connector with 3 cables going to the VCRs and the TV, in order to tape each VCR independently (obviously only when in Analog mode).

I have never had any problems taping those VCRs, and want to continue doing so when we switch to all-digital on June 12. However, a) my Zenith converter won't program weeks in advance, so I need one that does; and b) since I will need to program through a converter (not the VCRs anymore, if I understand correctly), then the current setup with the splitter and the A/B switch won't work (again, if I understand correctly). Therefore, please help me first understand what kind of set-up I need:

1) To watch one show and tape two more to the two VCRs - do I need 3 converters: one to watch and two to tape at the same time? If so, how do I hook them up: one to each VCR with a triple splitter and one to the TV? Someone mentioned using Composite cables to get better reception - does that help? How? What's the set-up then?

To paint a picture, you need (1) converter for each channel you are wanting to record /view.

To simplify think of the CECB tuner boxes as a "replacement tuner" for your TV, VCR, etc


On the input to saying having 3 CECB's you use a splitter /amplifier as needed - Note that these digital units can get too strong a signal which messes them up... so keep that in mind...

On the composite cables- Yes you will get a better picture ... On the hook-up instead of using the RF input of the TV, VCR, etc you use composite cables.

Hook-up quality in order of WORST to BEST-

(Note: Anything beyond S-Video NOT being available on CECB tuners..
CECB units with S-Video
APEX DT502 (BestBuy)
ChannelMaster CM-7000 (Online vendors).

Worst:
RF= Video and Audio on same cable (Yuk)
Composite = Video and Audio on separate cables

S-Video= Better yet, Video, Audio seperate and more bandwidth

Component = R, G, B (Video), each color getting a separate cable- with Audio of course getting separate cables as well

DVI= Digital Video, Audio on separate cables
HDMI= Digital Video, and Audio carried on same cable- Downside is the HDCP (Copy-protection) El-crap-ola which should die, die, die

2) Is there a way to use only two converters that program the VCRs (I'll disconnect the Zenith) and which allow me to watch also? How?

Again think of each CECB as a replacement tuner - For each channel you are wanting to record you will need a tuner.

3) Whether I need two or three converters for my ideal set-up, from all the postings I've read it seems that my best bets for Electronic Program Guide programming VCRs (assuming they can be properly adjusted and programmed) are the Dish DTVPal Plus, and the Zinwell ZAT-950A, to take advantage of the latest advanced tuners, for Picture Quality and Sensitivity.

DTVPal, DTVPal Plus /TR-40CRA series units

Pro's:
Has the Best Electronic Program Guide-
Nice remote

Cons:
Unit is sensitive to channels broadcasting the proper time stamp.
There is NO way to manual set the time. (LOL!!!)
There are only 5-timer slots
Lord help you if you order thru Dish and you get a defective unit... I just picked up (3) DTVPal Plus units at K-Mart @$59 this week..
(Sears should have them also)

Really like the DTVPal, this coming from someone who has several of the below:

Zenith DTT901 - Now and then EPG, No timers
APEX- DT502 (S-Video out- Half -way decent guide but it is light years behind the DTVPal Guide in functionality.)
Zinewell 970A, and 950A's Now and then EPG - 8 timer slots

The Zinewell ZAT-950A /970A

Has manual time set
Has 8-timer slots
Pros: Guide is a Now and Next type- showing only what is on Now and Next


Zinewell and DTVPal both have "plastic-housings", and external power bricks, (Wal-Wart types)... I prefer a METAL CASING, and internal PS as in the Zenith /APEX..




Questions: Have I missed any other converters for my needs? Do you know of any others coming soon on the market that suggest waiting a bit?

If you are wanting TIMERS, the only option AFAIK is the Zinewell, and DTVPal unitsThe Dish seems to disconnect the timing occasionally, thus taping a program I don't want to tape; and I'm not sure the "auto shutdown" feature can be turned off.

Auto shut down on the DTVPal series units CAN be turned OFf, but the unit will NOT go into "Maintenance Mode" to do a Guide Update.. I prefer to buy at a retail store (for easier return of a faulty unit): the Dish is available at Sears, but Albertson's in L.A. only seems to carry the ZAT-970A when in stock (not as good for me as the 950A?).

BUY LOCAL- today I swapped out a APEX DT502 that developed a high-pitched squeal when powered off..

DTVPal= K-Mart, Sears, and Maybe RadioShack... K-Mart @$59

ZAT-950A is supposedly a "newer-model" than the 907A, 950A supposedly having a silicon tuner

Could you please summarize what works and does not in whichever model you recommend? I have adapted myself to the 4 remotes I use currently (might investigate a universal one once I'm fully set-up) which keeps my brain neurons fit and healthy, but I'm far from a tech geek, and would prefer simple instructions (visual works also).

Universal /Learning Remote is the way to go...

Finally, after reading so many threads at AVS, I just admire the dedication and patience of the members and senior members who take the time to answer questions from us confused members. Especially in these difficult economic times when we try to save our pennies, it feels caring to be helped. Thank you!




********

On which units to get:

Your options are basically the DTVPal, for it's Guide... and the Zinewell for it's manual time-set, 8 timer slots instead of 5 of the DTVPal...


PS: As a suggestion to simplify your life from the freedom of VCR tapes, having to program (2) devices (CECB box and VCR). and limited guide data... you may seriously want to consider is a Media-Center PC..

This can be a DESKTOP, or LAPTOP ....

As a suggestion I'd go with a external tuner- such as the SiliconDust HDHomeRun... (On sale for about $130.... which btw is a "deal"!)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815327005

http://www.silicondust.com/
It's a true HD tuner... the unit having (2) tuners that is viewable thru any PC on your network.

Viewable also on your TV if the PC has outputs that match your TV...

Guide data goes out a FULL 2-weeks...
It's just point can click to arrange what records
No swapping out VCR tapes
Hard drive space is unlimited via upgrades, or external hard drive units..
Fast forward, Freeze, Pause, Replay, Skip commercials... instantly....

On the skipping commercials aspect, a hour show most of the time has 20 minutes of commercials!!!... You can record, use various programs to strip out commercials.....

Oh, one last thing- you could hook up the CECB units to a Media Center PC.

While I have my system apart right now moving stuff around, I have a old PC with

(1) Silicon Dust HDHomeRun Network tuner- (This giving me (2) HD TUNERS as the HDHomeRun has (2) tuners..)
(1) Hauppauge PVR-500 Analogue tuner with dual NSTC tuners, this having (2) inputs that I plan on "maybe" hooking up (2) CECB tuners... This set up giving me (2) HD tuners, and (2) SD tuners... for a total of (4) Channels I can record to at the same time, plus I'm able to Play a previously recorded channel..

With the above said- Next time the HDHomeRun goes on sale and as money permits I may forgo hooking up the CECB units, reason being reliability, and simplification EG programing CECB's to tune to a certain channel at a certain time, and B: I don't have the MCE Blaster Unit as I got the PC at the thrift store and get another HDHomeRun unit.

With the HDHomeRun it's just a matter of point and clicking and it's set up to record series...


.

Wow! Your answer to my questions are both supporting and eye-opening, and will require some more absorbing and research before coming up with the right smart questions some time next week. Thank you so much for taking the time to assist me in making up my mind.

Wow! Your answer to my questions are both supporting and eye-opening, and will require some more absorbing and research before coming up with the right smart questions some time next week. Thank you so much for taking the time to assist me in making up my mind.


On the CECB boxes... go to the threads pertaining to those units for more info.

For example on the DTVPal series you can turn off the automatic shut-off- the downside of this being the guide will not update- and I think the timers get screwed up due to the guide not being updated.
(I know the Guide is affected if your local CBS station is broadcasting the WRONG time data. My local CBS station was broadcasting 30-35 minutes behind on the time, and once I tuned that station all guide times were effected. For the life of my I can't understand "why" there is not a manual time-set option like on the Zinewell units.)

On your hook-ups - you can hook up as many CECB units as you have inputs on the TV, and or VCR.... RF connection being the least preferable.


On the Media Center PC (MCE_2005, or VMC- Vista Media Center)...You can run other apps that replace MCE, VMC such as Media Portal, GBPVR, etc both on a MCE_2005, VMC, and or XP, or Linux based system...

Pros of a Media Center PC:

As I stated before unlimited "space" for your recordings... Instant fast-forwarding, etc...

Additionally keep in mind with a Media Center PC solution and a decent monitor you can do web-browsing from the comfort of your easy chair;)

On your 9-year old TV....

I'm using a huge (heavy) CRT based set for everyday viewing... and a 61 inch HD unit for watching movies /HD content...

I've been considering migrating away from the CRT based set for the following reasons:

1: I had to move the CRT based set about 2-weeks ago- It was in a rack at about the 5-foot level. (LOL)... It was VERY hard to move as it is 120lbs ++

2: Power Usage= I haven't compared power specs yet- but I'm thinking a newer TV /LCD panel may "pay-for-itself".

3: Number /Type of inputs - Newer TV/ LCD panel is going to have more "inputs".

4: Using a LCD panel / Media Center set-up would be nice for cruising the net.... and or playing games...

5: LCD panel takes up less space.... is easier to place /position /hang...

6: LCD panels are getting bigger, and cheaper and now are PC "friendly" (sharp image for web browsing /computer use) ... Considering the above it's getting hard for me to resist their lure... with the above said once last thing to figure into the equation is repair cost of a CRT, to a LCD panel... and longevity...


.

.

One more thing on the Media Center PC solution... you can manage your recordings from out of town over the net.. (AFAIK)

http://www.lifehacker.com/assets/resources/2007/09/webguide%201.png

http://lifehacker.com/software/hack-attack/turn-your-windows-pc-into-a-media-center-powerhouse-on-the-cheap-298408.php

Excerpt: If you're running Windows Media Center, you can with a freeware program called Web Guide browse and schedule recordings from the program guide, stream live or recorded television, delete programs and more, all remotely from the comfort of any web browser.


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Thanks, WeAreNotAlone! I'm back home now and taking a careful look at all the possibilities that you opened my eyes to. I do know that I will not change my CRT yet (I tend to buy top rated quality tech stuff and use it for many many years, as long as it works well - I'm still driving a 1987 Honda Accord well-maintained with 93,000 miles, that costs me less in repairs than my friends' latest models). I don't mind spending a bit more for a top of the line item if it gives me the value for what I need, not necessarily for features I may never use. And I do try to plan ahead for my needs years into the future. In any case, I do plan to investigate the suggestions you have made, and will be back to you with results or more questions, if you don't mind. Until then, warm regards!

Hello, WeAreNotAlone69:

I'm with you: I've had to move the huge and heavy CRT aside several times and it's a bitch; but it shows almost digital quality TV on analog (when it's not raining) and I can't afford to replace it with a similar sized LCD TV, so I'm stuck with it.

The Media Center you have proposed as an example (SiliconDust HDHR-US HDHomeRun Networked Digital TV Tuner) sounds ideal for recording two shows on a hard disk drive, especially when I'm away for several weeks. I've looked at several websites (newegg, amazon, silicon, geektonic, etc.) for user reviews and questions, and they all uniformly praise it as easy to install and run, assuming you have installed the right software. As I understand it:

a) To watch TV on a computer monitor, Silicon's HDHR connects its tuner to a network router/modem. Since I mostly want to watch the recorded shows on a TV CRT, you suggest "Viewable also on your TV if the PC has outputs that match your TV..."

b) My computer is now an iMac running the latest (Leopard) Mac software. I've looked in the back of the Mac monitor, and I found the following outputs: Mini-DVI port, Ethernet port, USB ports, Audioin/optical digital audio in port, headphoneout/optical digital audio out port, and Firewire 400 and Firewire 800 ports. The computer is one of two iMacs in separate rooms, connected to each other and the Internet wirelessly through a Verizon Westell router and Apple's Airport wireless connection. (By the way, I do have a Virtual PC (Parallels) operating Windows XP software on the main computer (with router attached), so I suppose that I could use MCE 2005 to record TV shows to the Mac's gigantic hard drive, if that were the setup I was looking for). Some users seem to have trouble using the EyeTV or Sage software for the Mac.

c) Since the TV CRT is in a third room (the bedroom), and I will not move the iMac to the bedroom, how does the Silicon HDHR connect to the TV to show recorded TV shows? Can the Mac send a wireless or infrared message to the TV to show what I have previously recorded on the Mac's hard drive? Do I need in any case a laptop PC in the bedroom that has to connect to the Internet wirelessly with the other two computers, to get everything working properly?

d) You also mentioned: "you could hook up the CECB units to a Media Center PC". Given where my computers are, how would that work, and why is it better, except to give me two additional programming tuners, which you suggest?

e) If that setup is not possible, then what else can I do? One site reports that I can hookup the HDHR's two tuners to the OTA antenna with a good splitter, which allows it to record two TV shows, while I can watch a third. But then I would need an Internet-connected laptop in the bedroom to do the programming, wouldn't I?

I sure hope you can come up with the right hook-up/setup with a media center; otherwise, it looks like I may have to decide between the 2 recording CECBs.

Appreciate your help!

Responses in BOLD below

Posted by ImagineAll;Hello, WeAreNotAlone69:

I'm with you: I've had to move the huge and heavy CRT aside several times and it's a bitch; but it shows almost digital quality TV on analog (when it's not raining) and I can't afford to replace it with a similar sized LCD TV, so I'm stuck with it.
I understand, no reason to replace something that is "working" - that said the weight of something- the expense (or danger) in moving heavy things is part of the equation in deciding to keep or get rid of something.
My HDTV @61 inches is like 98lbs and is easy to move, compared to the SD CRT TV @120+..

Another aspect is "floor-space"- a wall, or ceiling mount panel being more cost /space effective.

(If anyone has a heavy-duty wall /ceiling mount for a 120lb++ 32-36 inch CRT tv they'd like to sell cheap let me know!)

The Media Center you have proposed as an example (SiliconDust HDHR-US HDHomeRun Networked Digital TV Tuner) sounds ideal for recording two shows on a hard disk drive, especially when I'm away for several weeks.

If you're away for several weeks- the choice between a setup using CECB's and the HDHomeRun is a no-brainer.

FYI: Keep in mind you can have MORE than (2) HDHomeRun tuners, each with with (2) tuners each on your network.
The advantage in this being able to record (4) , or more? shows at the same time

I've looked at several websites (newegg, amazon, silicon, geektonic, etc.) for user reviews and questions, and they all uniformly praise it as easy to install and run, assuming you have installed the right software.
Re-Read those reviews- there is a reason people like the HDHomeRun units.. They are easy to set-up, work reliably- and are a good value. The only negative is I wish the casing was BLACK..
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(Above said on the old HP n1070m I rescued from my local thrift store that was minus the hard-drive I am in codec hell as HP does not have downloads on their site for the pre-installed codec's... They have the "upgrade" version, but not the base..(LOL). Stupid upgrade version looks at the bios to see if you're installing it on a HP machine, but will not install without the base codecs installed.

(If anyone has the MCE_2005 base codecs for a HP n1070m, PM me!)

With the above said if you have a existing MCE_2005 install, are using VMC, or are using a 3rd party tunning program- the missing codec will probably not be a issue.)

As I understand it:

a) To watch TV on a computer monitor, Silicon's HDHR connects its tuner to a network router/modem.

Correct- Silcon Dust attaches to your router, or directly to computer- I think but am not sure that attaching to router gives you access from ANY PC on your network , and attaching directly may not. EG May allow access only thru that computer.

Since I mostly want to watch the recorded shows on a TV CRT, you suggest "Viewable also on your TV if the PC has outputs that match your TV..."

Output on computer has to match TV-
On my HDTV I'm using DVI for video /separate cabling for audio... On my SD TV- the best connection is S-VIDEO. (my video card has both outputs). If your computers outputs do not match the TV, you will need something to convert the signal. One option may be a extender- /X-Box. In both cases audio is coming off sound card via standard audio jack- it going to switch box so I can toggle between the different TV's.

b) My computer is now an iMac running the latest (Leopard) Mac software. I've looked in the back of the Mac monitor, and I found the following outputs: Mini-DVI port, Ethernet port, USB ports, Audio in/optical digital audio in port, headphoneout/optical digital audio out port, and Firewire 400 and Firewire 800 ports. The computer is one of two iMacs in separate rooms, connected to each other and the Internet wirelessly through a Verizon Westell router and Apple's Airport wireless connection. (By the way, I do have a Virtual PC (Parallels) operating Windows XP software on the main computer (with router attached), so I suppose that I could use MCE 2005 to record TV shows to the Mac's gigantic hard drive, if that were the setup I was looking for). Some users seem to have trouble using the EyeTV or Sage software for the Mac.

You need to check out the HDHomeRun forums for info on the Mac- at one time not long ago when you purchased the HDHomeRun (Thru a company that specialized in Macs) it was "bundled" with software that allowed you to use it with a MAC.

On the Ports- once again you need to match the ports to the TV /monitor being used. The HDHomeRun unit is a TUNER ONLY- it does NOT output video, nor audio

c) Since the TV CRT is in a third room (the bedroom), and I will not move the iMac to the bedroom, how does the Silicon HDHR connect to the TV to show recorded TV shows? Can the Mac send a wireless or infrared message to the TV to show what I have previously recorded on the Mac's hard drive?

Check the forums for details- Wireless is a option (HD channels needing about 17mb of bandwidth AFAIK)- On the "connection" to the TV, if the TV is in another room you will need:

A: PC /Mac? with the proper outputs that match the TV, OR

B: Need a "Extender", such as a:

X-Box, Popcorn Hour A-110/B-110, Neuros LINK etc.

Shows are recorded on (any) PC/MAC on your network- then data is streamed to the exteneder/PC/Mac with outputs that match TV - More than likely this will be the route you will need to pursue. (EG Extender- that data is streamed to- it being the medium you hook the TV up to.

Popcorn Hour A-110/B-110 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jBfpTJbG4c

Neuros LINK http://www.neurostechnology.com/

Do I need in any case a laptop PC in the bedroom that has to connect to the Internet wirelessly with the other two computers, to get everything working properly?
Best bet is to Check the SilconDustforums- There may be sofware for the Mac, and you may not need a PC

d) You also mentioned: "you could hook up the CECB units to a Media Center PC". Given where my computers are, how would that work, and why is it better, except to give me two additional programming tuners, which you suggest?

I'd suggest going for the HDHomeRun...It should be easier to set-up, schedule recordings on. If you use CECB's you will need IR blasters, (Imagine a remote control's IR emitter on a cable.... and the associated IB Blaster transmitter /receiver). IR transceiver plugs into computer- it accepts commands from the guide- and sends the command to the device you are trying to control (The CECB)..

If you think using CECB's is a option for you:
On Ebay if you want to deal with the "hassle" of setting up external tuners, and programing your CECB units to "tune" to a certain channel at a certain time, and the deceased RELIABILITY of such a set-up you can buy USB sticks that have A: May have a built in tuner, B: Composite /S-VIDEO A/V inputs....


e) If that setup is not possible, then what else can I do? One site reports that I can hookup the HDHR's two tuners to the OTA antenna with a good splitter, which allows it to record two TV shows, while I can watch a third.
That is correct, You can record (2) shows, and watch a third previously recorded program at the same time.-

FYI: Don't forget you can add more HDHomeRun units on your network, each having (2) tuners each- being able to share the tuners between machines if needed.
Check forums for "how many"

But then I would need an Internet-connected laptop in the bedroom to do the programming, wouldn't I?

It doesn't have to be connected to the net- ONLY to your network... the only time it has to be connected is:
A: To download guide data- (Guide data goes out about (2) weeks)
B: If you want to manage your recordings when you are out of town via the Web Guide I linked to above.

I sure hope you can come up with the right hook-up/setup with a media center; otherwise, it looks like I may have to decide between the 2 recording CECBs.

I'd seriously look into the HDHomeRun units- they are worth EVER cent!

Appreciate your help!


No problem, but you may what to ask further questions in the thread here AVS about the HDHomeRun, or on SilconDust's website.

I just bring up these option as it is light years ahead of a VCR, offers pretty much unattended recording, and unlimited storage space.

The only thing which put a damper on all of this is the DRM el-crap-ola if using MCE_2005, VMC... which the Hollywood types have demanded be interjected...


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Again, thanks WeAreNot69, for your thorough review of my questions and needs. You make a compelling case for HDHR, and I'm going to spend careful time reading all the threads on it on AVS and elsewhere that I can find. Once I've mapped out the steps and likely setup/hookups, I'd like to pass my results on to you to ensure that I have them correct before attempting to get everything working. If so, I also hope other forum participants will be able to profit from my solution. My very best to you!

I was just told by the DTVPalPlus converter box people that I was not going to be able to hook up my old VHS recorder players to my dtv box to play or record! SO BUMMED that I have 1000's of $$ worth of old machines that I can no longer use...UNTIL I found this site. Now am I to understand that there IS a way to use them? Will I be able to record & play? Please be as specific as possible in your reply, as I'm not that savvy about the connections. Currently I have several tv's using a converter box with either just "dog ear" antennas or a couple that are hard wired to an attic antenna.
I would REALLY appreciate any "simple" advice, if there is such a thing. :)
THANKS VERY MUCH, Bev

The way to think of these CECBs is as a replacement for your now obsoleted analog tuner. Plug the Antenna connection from the VCR into the CECB, then you can use either the channel 3/4 RF modulator from the CECB to the VCR (just like when you used the VCR as a tuner for your TV), or you can use the composite video analog audio output jacks from the CECB to the Line in jacks on the VCRs.

The Echostar CECBs are some of the few boxes out there that include a timer feature - you can program up to 5 timers into the CECB and it can auto-tune the digital channel you wish to record. You would also have to set a timer on VCR using the same input (channel 3, channel 4 or line in) .

Now you're problably thinking "But what if I want to watch another program while the VCR is recording from the PAL? ". The solution is to get another CECB that again would feed either channel 3 or 4 or a line input (whichever one is NOT being used by the VCR). You would want to use a 2 way splitter , input from the antenna, outputs to the 2 CECBs for this hookup.

I was just told by the DTVPalPlus converter box people that I was not going to be able to hook up my old VHS recorder players to my dtv box to play or record! SO BUMMED that I have 1000's of $$ worth of old machines that I can no longer use...UNTIL I found this site. Now am I to understand that there IS a way to use them? Will I be able to record & play? Please be as specific as possible in your reply, as I'm not that savvy about the connections. Currently I have several tv's using a converter box with either just "dog ear" antennas or a couple that are hard wired to an attic antenna.
I would REALLY appreciate any "simple" advice, if there is such a thing. :)
THANKS VERY MUCH, Bev

>I was just told by the DTVPalPlus converter box people

The DTVPalPlus was designed specifically for use with VCRs, so it sounds like you talked to someone who didn't know what they were talking about.

In any case, you can use any converter box with any VCR.

Some simple things:

You can play back tapes without a converter box; all HDTV's that I know of have analog inputs for a direct connection to the VCR's output.

For best picture quality, use composite cables to connect the converter to the VCR's input.

New converters are set to automatically shut down after a period of time. Go into the converter's menu and shut this "feature" off.

Try a little mind experiment. What does a converter box look like to a VCR?
The converter box looks like a little TV station that broadcasts on channel 3 or 4. You can set the channel to receive with the converter's remote control; you either just manually set the channel or set the timers.

My experience was that it takes a while to get used to recording this way. having to set the channel separately from the recording times is a new way to do things. You have to think of the VCR as receiving the "converter box station".

Info on subject:
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/converterbox_vcr.html
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Your-Older-VCR,-TiVo,-or-DVR-With-a-DTV-Converter-Box
http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/VCRs_and_Converter_Boxes.html

This is what a composite cable looks like.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/composite/compositecmbo.jpg

Antenna --> DTVPalPlus --> VCR --> Television

If you use the composite cable between the DTVPalPlus and the VCR, you'll need to set the VCR on "LINE" to do your recordings. You can also use the composite cable between the VCR and television.

Composite cable connections will give you better picture quality (PQ) and stereo audio, where the RF connection will not.

All recordings made with the VCR, will require the VCR to be set to record on channel "3 or 4" or "LINE."

I was just told by the DTVPalPlus converter box people that I was not going to be able to hook up my old VHS recorder players to my dtv box to play or record! SO BUMMED that I have 1000's of $$ worth of old machines that I can no longer use...UNTIL I found this site. Now am I to understand that there IS a way to use them? Will I be able to record & play? Please be as specific as possible in your reply, as I'm not that savvy about the connections. Currently I have several tv's using a converter box with either just "dog ear" antennas or a couple that are hard wired to an attic antenna.
I would REALLY appreciate any "simple" advice, if there is such a thing. :)
THANKS VERY MUCH, Bev
They may have been talking about the clock/ timer issues with the Pal.

I've never tried to use the timer on the Pal due to this, but I record off single channels all the time with it.
I have the Pal Plus for the guide.

I recommend the TRT for multiple timer recording.
I have tried all the timer cecbs.
I'll have a zinwell or two for sale eventually.
I'm only keeping any because of remote conflict issues.

Note that on better vcrs three boxes can be used simultaneously, and perhaps more with some effort.
L-1, F-1 and RF and you might find more on some devices.