:mad:

I have installed a number of the C3X1080's and no matter how many I get to see, they always impress me each and every time.

Good screen shots! :)

Nice work, CM. The detail, color, clarity, etc of the 1080 is exquisite. I'm glad I have one:D. 300 is a very difficult film to use (quite grainy, not a lot of colors, etc.). Even so, the difference is striking.

Jeff

Nice work, CM. The detail, color, clarity, etc of the 1080 is exquisite. I'm glad I have one:D. 300 is a very difficult film to use (quite grainy, not a lot of colors, etc.). Even so, the difference is striking.

Jeff


For me it was just a no brainer and thaks to CM for quickly helping me to make my mind up on this PJ

Wow that is dramatic and sums it up perfectly

I actually use 300 as a demo all the time. It just has everything as a video demo.

CM,
I will take a few 300 screen shots for this thread. It proves the addition but makes me look more rounded.:D

Art

After seeing OB's setup, I have had a chance to look at the HT3000, HT3000e, and C3X(e model I believe), as well as compare to my Marantz VP11S1. The C3X1080 was clearly in a different class. Now I don't think I would be happy upgrading to anything less than that level.

What I would like to understand better is WHY. What exactly is it with this projector that makes the image so much better? I don't have any problems with RBE or eye fatigue with the one chippers by the way.

WOW! :eek:
Very nice, but I just saw the msrp :eek:

What exactly is it with this projector that makes the image so much better?

Two more chips. :D

Two more chips. :D

In addition to better application of light, optics, processing....

Jim

(Nice work CM, thanks for taking the time.)

In addition to better application of light, optics, processing....

Optics and processing are identical to some of the other projectors mentioned. Lightpath is obviously always different between 1-chip and 3-chip.

In addition to better application of light, optics, processing....

Jim

(Nice work CM, thanks for taking the time.)

Optics and processing are identical to some of the other projectors mentioned. Lightpath is obviously always different between 1-chip and 3-chip.

I have heard the HT3000e described as 90% of the C3X1080, but it was no contest IMHO. I guess you can't get that "it" without the 3 chips.

I'm really trying to resist the urge Jim.

I think of the other technologies as arguing with each other for supremacy like a group of Lord of the Rings geeks with their action figures. 3 chip DLP is the giant Ogre who comes over the hill and bitch slaps them all to death with his colossal schlong.:D
Well, ummmm.......OK. :D:p:rolleyes:
I still want one.

The C3X 1080 compared to my old VPL-VW50 is significantly better looking. My wife, who could give a rats ass about any of this stuff, commented on how incredible the new projector looks...

Hopefully we can avoid some of the outright Douchebaggery that has been afflicting us of late.

CM,

You're killin' me here with the secrets!


Your 2nd. screenshot shows how the C3X 1080 so blatantly puts the other PJ to shame. Wow! What a difference. No matter how much you try, there's simply no way to level the playing field. These two PJ's are playing in different states. Out of fairness, you did mention the other PJ is a lot cheaper, as most of the other popular projectors these days are.


All Douchebaggery aside, you have to tell us what the other PJ is in your 1st. screenshot.

Please, be a bit of a Douche Bag and liven things up by telling us the name of the PJ hidden behind door #1. Be careful though, you don't want to rub it in anyone's face!

My bet is on a RS1/RS2 for the other projector, as the screenshot shows exactly the washed out colors you're getting from units where the colors and primaries are not corrected by a videoprocessor. ;)

My bet is on a RS1/RS2 for the other projector, as the screenshot shows exactly the washed out colors you're getting from units where the colors and primaries are not corrected by a videoprocessor. ;)


Considering their prices, don't you think you're being a little hard on the RS1/RS2's?

I think of the other technologies as arguing with each other for supremacy like a group of Lord of the Rings geeks with their action figures. 3 chip DLP is the giant Ogre who comes over the hill and bitch slaps them all to death with his colossal schlong.:D


:D:D

Art

OK CM, now that you have had your fun :), is that an RS1 or RS2?

A group of Lord of the Ring geeks and bitch slapping with a giant schlong? I thought you were trying to be good.


the problem with one chippers, all else being equal is the color wheel. There is no such thing as the perfect co9lor wheel. Some do somethings better while others do something else better. Contrast, brightness, color accuracy. With a three chipper ther designer does not have to make the tradeoffs associated with use of a particular wheel.


The problem with three chippers is alignment, pure an simple.


Thats why given the same lens etc, the single chipper will be sharper because there is nothing to converge,


Nothing new here.


CM. Is the first projector an old 15 inch RCA projected with a single lens Theatervision box? They were popular in the 70s.

The problem with three chippers is alignment, pure an simple.




This is true for any three chip technology but there are some better than others. The HT 5000 (two different ones I've seen) have incredible panel registration.

Of course you are right though, the sharpness king is one chip DLP.

Art

I think of the other technologies as arguing with each other for supremacy like a group of Lord of the Rings geeks with their action figures. 3 chip DLP is the giant Ogre who comes over the hill and bitch slaps them all to death with his colossal schlong.:D
Wouldn't the C3X be more like the Balrog?

Wouldn't the C3X be more like the Balrog?

I'm no LOTR fan ,is that a smaller schlong ?

Art

Considering their prices, don't you think you're being a little hard on the RS1/RS2's?

This is the over $20k forum, so people are probably not looking for the best bang for the bucks. If the additional price for a C3X1080 is worth it over the price of a RS1/RS2 is up to the buyer. You could also ask the question if a $20k speaker is so much better than a $5k speaker or if a $100k speaker is so much better than a $20k speaker.

The C3X1080 isn't perfect, and there are many things about LCoS/SXRD that I like better than DLP, but also there are things about DLP that I like better than LCoS/SXRD. There is no such thing as a perfect projector, they're all flawed.

The RS1/RS2 can be improved alot by mods, I'm not sure if William Phelps is still working in that area, but he did some nice work at the tip of the iceberg. Similar things can be said about the HT5k and C3X1080, if you think those perform as good as it gets with a calibration and without mods, then you're in for a surprise. Both are flawed as well, simply to keep costs down.

This is the over $20k forum, so people are probably not looking for the best bang for the bucks. If the additional price for a C3X1080 is worth it over the price of a RS1/RS2 is up to the buyer. You could also ask the question if a $20k speaker is so much better than a $5k speaker or if a $100k speaker is so much better than a $20k speaker.

The C3X1080 isn't perfect, and there are many things about LCoS/SXRD that I like better than DLP, but also there are things about DLP that I like better than LCoS/SXRD. There is no such thing as a perfect projector, they're all flawed.

The RS1/RS2 can be improved alot by mods, I'm not sure if William Phelps is still working in that area, but he did some nice work at the tip of the iceberg. Similar things can be said about the HT5k and C3X1080, if you think those perform as good as it gets with a calibration and without mods, then you're in for a surprise. Both are flawed as well, simply to keep costs down.

No argument. Indeed there is no perfect projector.


Art

....I'm really trying to resist the urge Jim.

I hear ya my friend.:D

Jim

This is the over $20k forum, so people are probably not looking for the best bang for the bucks. If the additional price for a C3X1080 is worth it over the price of a RS1/RS2 is up to the buyer. You could also ask the question if a $20k speaker is so much better than a $5k speaker or if a $100k speaker is so much better than a $20k speaker.

The C3X1080 isn't perfect, and there are many things about LCoS/SXRD that I like better than DLP, but also there are things about DLP that I like better than LCoS/SXRD. There is no such thing as a perfect projector, they're all flawed.

The RS1/RS2 can be improved alot by mods, I'm not sure if William Phelps is still working in that area, but he did some nice work at the tip of the iceberg. Similar things can be said about the HT5k and C3X1080, if you think those perform as good as it gets with a calibration and without mods, then you're in for a surprise. Both are flawed as well, simply to keep costs down.


Stephan,

In my last post, I was agreeing with you in a facetious manner after reading your harsh anti-RS1/RS2 comments:

Quote from Stephan "My bet is on a RS1/RS2 for the other projector, as the screenshot shows exactly the washed out colors you're getting from units where the colors and primaries are not corrected by a videoprocessor"

My reply was Quote = myself: “Considering their prices, don't you think you're being a little hard on the RS1/RS2's?”


I also agree, there is no such thing as the perfect projector (Except for Art's HT 5000).


As well as being a long time Sim 2 fan and 3 chip DLP fan, I am a long time Sim 2 dealer. In sales, I strongly believe in putting your money where your mouth is. If you're not willing to spend your own hard earned dollars on what you sell, there is something wrong. If you don't believe in your own product, then you have no integrity if you continue to sell that item. If you sell Chevy's then you should drive a Chevy, not a BMW and vice versa. Also, I can't think of a better way to serve clients, than by owning, using and torture testing everything you recommend to others. My own C3X 1080 is waiting in the box for my media room/screenwall remodel to a CIH setup and AT screen. In the meantime, I'm still enjoying my 720p 3 chip C3X.


With that said, while I can appreciate the on/off CR of current SXRD/LcOS machines, I've never cared for the soft picture, lack of pop, lack of depth and 3 dimensionality, or in your own words, "washed out colors". The lack of visible pixel structure is alluring though. But I'm not sure if that's caused by a sharpness deficiency in the optical system or by the panels/pixel structure itself?.


Now, if we can only get a 3 Chip DLP machine with the on/off CR of the RS2, then we can claim that true progress has finally been made in the front projection arena.


My sincerest apologies to CM for not keeping "the outright Douchebaggery" out of his thread.


Quote = Mark Haflich "Still not a bad second for the pretend big boys."

If the C3X 1080 is pretend, I'm more than happy being a pretender. But please, just don't ever show me an HT 5000. Ignorance is Bliss

Kind of off topic but why does AVS let users with zero posts place ads like this?: AVS C3X1080 CLASSIFIEDS AD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=1325). It may very well be legitimate but who would actually send a cashiers check for $20k to someone for a purchase through an AVS ad?

It might be a segue into a more meaningful interaction before the check goes out the door? :confused:

Kind of off topic but why does AVS let users with zero posts place ads like this?: AVS C3X1080 CLASSIFIEDS AD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=1325). It may very well be legitimate but who would actually send a cashiers check for $20k to someone for a purchase through an AVS ad?

Looks totally legit to me ;)

At least its not like a lady saying "Is it in yet?"
What's that like Mark? I'm asking since you seem to have experience. My own experience is limited to "OH MY GOD".

Thanks alot CM I just hung my 3000e over this past weekend and I am waitng for my new screen you sure know how to steal my thunder. Mark it's not fair before I purchased you should have warned me :>)

Quote = Mark Haflich "Still not a bad second for the pretend big boys."

If the C3X 1080 is pretend, I'm more than happy being a pretender. But please, just don't ever show me an HT 5000. Ignorance is Bliss

I don't mind being a pretender either.

If for years I pretended my little ol Dwin 700 was King of the Hill,
at least this time I'm a lot closer to being up that Hill!!!@@

Joey, you miss the point totally and utterly.
Yes, but today he only missed it by a factor of 10, so he's getting better.

i agree with CM. But I did laugh at the "totally and utterly'. Missed the point vs totally missed the point? Utterlymissed the point? Of course we are dealing with shades of gray but /


Remindsme of a lecture a highly educated couch once gave me suggesting that that I give up the sport because I was watching a short skirt behind the bench instead of the action on the ice.

Joey, you miss the point totally and utterly. Its the comparison between the 2 under identical conditions, not the shot itself, thats important here. You most certainly ARE coming across as trying to rain on peoples parade. Your own test, real or otherwise, using your laptop, was actually comparing a 67.8k image with a 2M image, the difference being a factor of almost 30. This was not an attempt to produce the most "impressive" screen shot but rather a deadly accurate comparison in a manner that, as far as I'm aware, hasn't been attempted before, at least to that degree. Your comment regarding it "is not even in the top fifty", as well as being unwarranted actually speaks volumes as to your, all too transparent, intent. I'm pretty sure that, in terms of representative accuracy and direct comparability, they are both close to, or actually occupying, the top 2 slots

The effort, time and knowhow put in to producing those shots, for the reasons listed, was significant and represented a major undertaking, and one that was actually requested by the nature of many questions I had received. Everyone else clearly understood that, and the comparative nature of the post. The world class nature of the facilities, equipment and personnel used, as it was for an industry contracted academic paper, have been outlined before.

As for "no offense to the OP", those words are always the precursor to exactly that, and "offense to the OP" certainly appears, quite clearly, to be your intent, as has been the case in the past. Please don't ruin yet another thread.

Regarding "produce more screen shots" again you have missed the point.Those 2 shots took around 50 man/hrs to obtain. Not only that, but I was actually the very first person to post C3X1080 screen shots. Those were highly praised.

Im also unwilling to be dragged into comparing the C3X1080 with your "$3000 HD80" in this thread as it has a, quite clearly stated in the OP, singular comparative purpose. I am, however, genuinely glad that your PJ satisfies your needs. I did have the opportunity to test the HD80 very extensively in a test session that I have outlined here previously. I was, on that occasion, able to see it back to back with, amongst others, the C3X1080. We found it to perform fully commensurate with its asking price, so no worries there. I'd recommend anyone with that budget to consider it, but with the obvious caveats regarding reliability and customer service. The xx PJ was actually a better overall performer than the HD80, but at a significantly higher price point, so thats only to be expected.

You are very clearly not the target for this thread, as outlined by myself in the OP, and as such your post shows a callous disregard for those who are, and an overall disrespect for this forum. This seems to be of increasing prevalence recently. My OP was worded, in vain it appears, in such a way as to try to prevent this from happening again.

Please move on and show some magnanimity.

Good luck.




well stated IMO

I don't mind being a pretender either.

If for years I pretended my little ol Dwin 700 was King of the Hill,
at least this time I'm a lot closer to being up that Hill!!!@@



Pretenders Club - Weekly Update:

Congrats goes out to SteveB for getting his 1080 ceiling mounted! Your getting really close. We hope your fully up and running soon! Please post pics?


General Club News - Pretenders Club Membership Fees are currently $32,500.00.

Sign up and join now.

New members add your name below................


Anthony C Founding Member

Steve B Founding Member

3.

4.

5.



Biggest Pretender of the Month Award Goes out to = Myself
I better get moving on my own room updates. If not, my 1080 will sit in the box for weeks. When in a certain business, it's typical for procrastinators (that's me) to put off their own personal projects. Maybe I should hire Mark H and have him come up to CT to get my room finished?

Thanks Coldmachine. The first picture seems to have more compression artifacts than the second pic. This could be because the second picture is 68.7k vs the first pic's 48.9k, an increase of 40% resolution and could be responsible for the increased level of detail in the second pic. Also, the second pic looks brighter to me which would help bring out more detail than in the first pic. For example, look at the guy on the left's chest. You can clearly see a thread hanging down across his left side while it is much harder to see on the second pic. This looks like the brightness isn't equalized. In addition the glare on the guy on the right's chest is brighter in the second pic than in the first.

When comparing level of detail in screenshots, it is absolutely necessary to post pics with the same resolution. If not, we don't have anything to compare.

I respectfully disagree Coldmachine. Both images are the same physical size. One has more resolution. This in and of itself means the image with more resolution will have more detail. Look at the compression artifacts on the chest and arms of the right figure in the two pics. See the compression artifacts (digital squares) in the first pic compared to the smoothness in the second pic?

What is being normalized? Are you equalizing the brightness between the two machines by using a larger screen area for the C3X1080? If so, the zoom on the camera (or the physical location of the camera) would have to be adjusted to achieve the same pixel density in the screenshots.

The second pic is also a slight bit smaller than the first pic in addition to having more resolution. It is the same width but not as tall as the first pic. A smaller image size with higher resolution will show more detail and sharpness than a larger image with less resolution.

My C3X 720 give me a very similar image compared to the C3X 1080. The POP on image, depth and colors are identical.

This is good news because last month I was thinking selling my C3X 720 and buy a JVC RS2, but good advices from Coldmachine and others stop my decision and now I am a more satisfied C3X owner.

Maybe I trade may C3X for a second gen C3X 1080 next year.

Based on the washed out colors I wouldn't think it would be an RS-1 or RS-2 due completely to the fact that the problem with their colors is that they are oversaturated and the C3X1080's colors looked more saturated than pic one's. (I doubt that colors are more saturated on a C3X1080 than they are on the RS-1 or 2.)

Regardless, as the screenshots are currently attached, with lower res on the bigger image, the screenshots tell us absolutely nothing about the sharpness or detail of the two projectors.

I politely must say that if you're gonna post a screen shot of a projector, then the projector should be identified.

I luv my C3X 1080. But if you post a screen shot of a more expensive projector and the picture is better, I can live with that. And if you post a screen shot of a less expensive projector and mine is better, I can live with that. And if you post a screen shot of a less expensive projector and its better than that of mine, I guess I will go get a lobotomy and live with that, too.

Be a MAN, folks!!!@@@

The 20K and up threads are getting more hostile by the day. On the plus side, CM is coming up with great names. I'm trying to decide if I should change from "The Bogg" to "outright douchebaggery".

We still don't know what the PJ in screenshot 1 was and maybe we're just better at calibrating and focusing ;)

Besides, my customers love me :)

xxx(1) 880x375, 49k
xxx(2) 800x341, 208k
1080(1) 922x379, 69k
1080(2) 1024x421, 80k

1080(3) 804x321 56k
xxx(2) 800x341, 208k
Close enough in size...
Observations: 1) JPEG works very well. 2) The sim2 is certainly an excellent projector, but the screen shot of "xxx" looks far too soft and different to be from a recent, competitive digital projector.

thread cleaned

Hi CM,

Could you clarify a few points, it appears your first post has been wiped.

-What was your source, Blu-ray or HD-DVD or other?
-You mentioned sharpness and noise reduction were nulled. Can you explain how that was achieved?
-Would you care to divulge the calibrated and or nulled final settings for contrast, brightness, color, sharpness and any NR features for both machines?

Second pic was quite nice by the way.

Hi CM,

Could you clarify a few points, it appears your first post has been wiped.

-What was your source, Blu-ray or HD-DVD or other?
-You mentioned sharpness and noise reduction were nulled. Can you explain how that was achieved?
-Would you care to divulge the calibrated and or nulled final settings for contrast, brightness, color, sharpness and any NR features for both machines?

Second pic was quite nice by the way.

I wiped it. I wish you had asked me all that earlier as I'd have loved to have answered in detail, but the thread has been destroyed by trolls.

I recently had a neurosurgeon and a professional hockey player over to my place and they claimed my theater was the best they have ever heard or seen. What does that mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. This hobby is about people passionate about audio video and obtaining the best possible end result. Wealth and status don't equate into AV intelligence.

I will refrain from posting about this projector again until I see it in person, I just hope it's much better than the CX3 720 and if it's over the top I just might consider it or in my case the Marantz 11s2 might do just fine. Need to see that also.

Joey

Never under estimate the other guys wit.

How could you even consider the opinion of a NHL player? That's clearly grounds for disqualification. Hell, I'd rather have the opinion of a dealer or lawyer, as worthless as those might be. :)

Can we at least get the screen shots back or do they violate a forum rule?

Can we at least get the screen shots back or do they violate a forum rule?


I think coldmachine took them down, not the mod.

I recently had a neurosurgeon and a professional hockey player over to my place and they claimed my theater was the best they have ever heard or seen. What does that mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. This hobby is about people passionate about audio video and obtaining the best possible end result. Wealth and status don't equate into AV intelligence.

I will refrain from posting about this projector again until I see it in person, I just hope it's much better than the CX3 720 and if it's over the top I just might consider it or in my case the Marantz 11s2 might do just fine. Need to see that also.

Joey

Never under estimate the other guys wit.

You openly admit to having ruined this thread for no other reason than to annoy people, "setting a bear trap" I believe was the phrase you used, and you publicly reveled in that annoyance to the extent of actually naming your trap's victims with glee. Now you post here as if you did nothing wrong.

Another guy got suspended for his constant trolling, including today, but today was your fault entirely.

What did you really achieve here? That was actually rhetorical, so please don't pollute this place any further with your asinine reply.

This forum is about the pursuit of excellence of information and performance regardless of fiscal constraint. Somehow we seem to offend you. You have actually posted openly your disdain for the majority of members who post here. This forum has a different nature to the others, If you cant accept that, leave those who can in peace.

You openly admit to having ruined this thread for no other reason than to annoy people, "setting a bear trap" I believe was the phrase you used, and you publicly reveled in that annoyance to the extent of actually naming your trap's victims with glee. Now you post here as if you did nothing wrong.

Another guy got suspended for his constant trolling, including today, but today was your fault entirely.

What did you really achieve here? That was actually rhetorical, so please don't pollute this place any further with your asinine reply.

This forum is about the pursuit of excellence of information and performance regardless of fiscal constraint. Somehow we seem to offend you. You have actually posted openly your disdain for the majority of members who post here. This forum has a different nature to the others, If you cant accept that, leave those who can in peace.

Indeed there are those who always tend to inflict there gratuitous hyperbole here on the Ultra High End Forum. It is a shame as I believe that this thread started with the best of intent.

A simlar fiasco started several days ago on a thread started by a member of my audio club about my HT.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=989044

The usual suspects showed up, the trolling began and we supposed adults bit into their shenanigans. As a result most of the posts in this otherwise good thread evaporated.

I will put a link to a pertinant post in this thread by twothbeave who IMO said it better than I could. So to all of you trolls here in this forum, I say take heed and let us do what we really love to do

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13214824&postcount=145

You openly admit to having ruined this thread for no other reason than to annoy people, "setting a bear trap" I believe was the phrase you used, and you publicly reveled in that annoyance to the extent of actually naming your trap's victims with glee. Now you post here as if you did nothing wrong.

I thought you were over that considering you started a post about lets move forward...there are bear traps everywhere in life, you reacting the way you did made me realize that.


Another guy got suspended for his constant trolling, including today, but today was your fault entirely.
I cannot comment on someone else's behavior with regards to breaking forum rules.

Projectors and their performance are subjective and that is why you don't see the science guys commenting on what looks better.
What did you really achieve here? That was actually rhetorical, so please don't pollute this place any further with your asinine reply.

that would by considered an insult, and most of the easily angered here would get very upset and try to get other members involved. Unfortunalety, I don't respect your opinion on this one.

This forum is about the pursuit of excellence of information and performance regardless of fiscal constraint. Somehow we seem to offend you. You have actually posted openly your disdain for the majority of members who post here. This forum has a different nature to the others, If you cant accept that, leave those who can in peace.
__________________
Again your need for others to help your cause...I to am in the pursuit of perfection in my AV setup...but I just use a different formula. Put simply the product has to perform to a potential that is set out by other similar products in different price ranges. Especially when considering an upgrade. My little Optoma was meant to be an interium projector so I am currently considering an upgrade. My comments are meant to get some real comparisons. You don't believe me ask Jason I have been emailing him to get prices on a few high end digitals. If your biggest critic can become a big supporter than you truly have made your point....It's not personal I just want opinions and it's okay if they are not all postive. One of my main concerns is that Art (who I think is awesome regardless what he thinks of me) is looking for a new projector after spending $50k less than a year ago. I need to see the CX31080p and the Marantz 11S2 to determine value /performance factor.

Joey

Joey

Although I respect your position, I must agree with CM in the manner of your posts in this thread. I however respect the opinion of CM more. He has been an invaluable aid to us here on this Ultra High End Forum and I certainly don't view him as leading lambs to slaughter by trying to sell us all a bill of goods. He was certainly most helpful to me in my quest to update my archaic HT. I would challenge you to review by way of search all threads started in the past 3 months on the C3X 1080 and read what others have said. IMO for the money it delivers all one would expect and then some. I would also challenge you to compare the PQ it delivers to that of your PJ. Simply put, they just aren't in the same league. I set out to buy the Sony VPL VW 200 and after much research and A/B it was just no comparison. It was certainly more than I had hoped to pay for a projector and I would venture to say that the prices predictably will fall and PQ will probably get better for a whole lot less $$$. However I took the plunge because what I saw in what was out there paled in comparison to the C3X 1080. You owe it to yourself to "put up or shut up". Those of us who have this machine understand the work put into those two .jpg images by CM. I watched "300" with my son and was stunned by the detail I could see in an otherwise very dark movie. I for one commend CM for merely starting yhis thread with only a simple intent. I care not what the other PJ was. What saddened me was to how you (whether you admit it or not) and one other did some serious trolling and caused this thread to implode.

Just my $0.02

BTW Joey, I would hurry and get the demo on this PJ sooner than later because over the past 4 months we have witnessed two price increases totalling $4K. I would hate to say "I told you so"

OK then Joey, lets move on.

I wouldn't let Arts upgrade bug dissuade you. I sold my HT5000 and the entire HT recently and have just started to plan my AV requirement for a new house. I can put hand on heart and say that, with utterly no fear of contradiction, the HT5000 smokes anything below its price, and the vast majority over it. Thats just a fact............However..............The spectre of the M80 is looming on the horizon, like an evil seductress.

Its advertised performance figures are so massive that it threatens to revolutionize its end of the market, and all others. It wont deliver those figures, but if it manages even remotely close it will be a world beater, pure and simple. Myself and others were on this like a pit-bull on a pork chop since the day it was announced. It looks to be more expensive than the HT5000 and will be for, based on specs, much bigger screens and as such not a competitor. Real world figures may skew that situation.

On your search, if i can help, just ask. I make it a point to see as many new machines as possible.; The 2 you mention should be, amongst others, on anyones list who's looking for a quality machine. I will be seeing the 11s2 next week and expect big things indeed.

You really do need to see a "properly" set up C3X1080 to appreciate what it can really do.Im sure Jason will do that nicely for you. It could have been better,but thats another story and that pisses me off. The fact remains that no machine below $50k is its equal, or close to it.

Thanks alot CM I just hung my 3000e over this past weekend and I am waitng for my new screen you sure know how to steal my thunder. Mark it's not fair before I purchased you should have warned me :>)

You have nothing about which to feel any regret whatsoever. Your machine is a world class machine. There are only 2 other single chip machines that can compete for PQ. Neither competes for lumens

ONEOBGYN I viewed the VW200 and although I liked it (it wasn't calibrated) it is not on my short list for an upgrade. I do however appreciate the AVS member who allowed me to come over an view it at this residence. Thanks D.

I did however come to a conclusion: I WANT A BIGGER SCREEN currently 8 ft wide. Looking at 10 -12 feet, so obviously lumens matters.

BTW I never said the HD80 was in any way better than the high end stuff, but it is one heck of a value when properly calibrated. No CMS on the Marantz is making reconsider, but I have to see these things in action before I can make choice. I will be phoning some dealers in nearby provinces to see where the closest ones are located for viewing.

I don't have the time to troll threads. I was actually entertaining a bunch of children today , blowing up helium balloons and keeping them happy while their Moms and my wife hhad lunch and I came to the thread and realized it had been "cleaned up" and noticed my post had been taken off. I was surprized because I thought I was just being witty....:confused:I have no idea what happened after my early morning post with coffee...it obviously got ugly...was never
my intention..

CM maybe one of these days we see the wizard behind the curtain:D

CM maybe one of these days we see the wizard behind the curtain:D

Perhaps you already have.

Perhaps you already have.

only four words what was there to edit?? I know maybe the mystery name!!

only four words what was there to edit?? I know maybe the mystery name!!

I thought "Perhaps" sounded cooler than "Maybe":D

I thought "Perhaps" sounded cooler than "Maybe":D

Now as Michael Grant always says..."can you feel the love":)

Two red pixels just appeared center screen on my C3X1080. :(

http://www.jkalman.com/images/random_forum_post_pics/dead_pixels.JPG

I thought "Perhaps" sounded cooler than "Maybe
tough to top magnanimity...I truly don't know what it means, but I was going to respond with this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1_zadUaiIo



see I try to stay a few posts ahead just like chess...which BTW I once had a rating of 1820.:cool:

qcumber your projector might need a doc if it's got red dots!! not good

qcumber your projector might need a doc if it's got red dots!! not good

Red on dark backgrounds and blue on light backgrounds. I sent Jason an e-mail and I'll call AVS Store tomorrow. Not much I can do tonight. I tried turning it off for awhile and turning it back on, but it is still there.

I started having some issues yesterday with blueish green lines appearing across the entire screen on on lighter backgrounds (red, yellow, orange). I thought maybe the projector was just warming up or something. Perhaps the problems are related.

Sorry Jeff you are stuck with it. :D Kidding of course. We already talked so I'll arrange to get back over and exchange it for you.

Sorry Jeff you are stuck with it. :D Kidding of course. We already talked so I'll arrange to get back over and exchange it for you.

If you ever want to give someone a heart attack, post that first sentence before you talk to him/her. :p

BTW, that high resolution video that I took a picture of is brought to you by Cablevision... Yes, it is supposed to be 1080i. My Cableivision HD channels are filled with exquisite macro-blocking and compression artifacts just like those all the time. Let there be no question why I can't wait for FIOS TV to be available in my area.

BTW, that high resolution video that I took a picture of is brought to you by Cablevision... Yes, it is supposed to be 1080i. My Cableivision HD channels are filled with exquisite macro-blocking and compression artifacts just like those all the time. Let there be no question why I can't wait for FIOS TV to be available in my area.

HD on my satellite is now averaging 5 to 6 gigs per movie. Thats slightly better then DVD :(

One of my main concerns is that Art is looking for a new projector after spending $50k less than a year ago.
Joey

Joey,
The HT 5000 is tremendous and so far the best picture overall that I have ever seen but, as CM stated, there looms other things which if they surpass my projector enough and I can afford them at some point I will move on. "It's what I do darlin, it's just what I do". :D

Art

Art if somehow anyone does come out with something with the hoarse power of the 5k and beats its PQ it will truly be an achievement.

Art if somehow anyone does come out with something with the hoarse power of the 5k and beats its PQ it will truly be an achievement.

Id like to see a 2 lamper with a more aggressive fixed iris to push the CR but retain similar lumens. I'd love to know what could be achieved if you sacrificed half the light from a 2 lamper

I actually think that, in terms of pure PQ, the clarity of the VP and optics, with the registration thats normal for that unit, there's not much significant improvement room within the confines of current source formats.

The only 2 areas I see that would think could be improved in a visibly significant way would be CR and resolution.

The M80 may give us a glimpse of what is possible

Only other real improvement on the 5000 could be adaptive iris, probably announced right when the UPS man rings my door bell

Only other real improvement on the 5000 could be adaptive iris, probably announced right when the UPS man rings my door bell

I'd personally like to see only higher on/ off. We measured just under 6000:1 two weeks ago on mine which certainly is wonderful being the highest on/ off of any production three chjip DLP I know of but yes a two lamper with an even tighter fixed iris could hit close to 10,000:1 I bet. Otherwise this is just such a gorgeous device with liitle to want.

Art

Only other real improvement on the 5000 could be adaptive iris

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Get a priest or Rabi. We need an exorcism.

CM:

What do you think is in store for your highly antcipated PD M80?

50,000:1 CR, AND adaptive iris I would think

CM:

What do you think is in store for your highly antcipated PD M80?

50,000:1 CR, AND adaptive iris I would think

Im betting on a variable iris rather than a DI.

Well, given that DLP technology is far from maxed out, the reality is that even the Sim2 is going to be outclassed in a couple of years. Though, it is certainly a better, safer expenditure than a 3-chip 720 machine. I wish I could find my timeline I did for DLP development, but I think I'm pretty well on track and $5K 3-chip units aren't that far away. Nor are native ultra wide screen and/or 4k projectors for home use. I wouldn't get too comfy just yet.

Well, given that DLP technology is far from maxed out, the reality is that even the Sim2 is going to be outclassed in a couple of years. Though, it is certainly a better, safer expenditure than a 3-chip 720 machine. I wish I could find my timeline I did for DLP development, but I think I'm pretty well on track and $5K 3-chip units aren't that far away. Nor are native ultra wide screen and/or 4k projectors for home use. I wouldn't get too comfy just yet.

We can only hope else this place would start to get boring.:)

Art

I think adding an iris will help with on/off but not make a huge difference. The next big improvement will come when using separate RGB LED panels as on/off light source. We will work through several generations as each improves light output. Bulb driven 3 chip may be with us for a while as the only solution for large screens.

A 500 lumen LED 1-chip could put 3-chips in serious danger, outside of very large screens.

Well, i broke down and ordered 300 as well as some other movies, so i'll take a screen shot or two with an IN82 and/or RS1/2 to see how close they can or can't come to a C3X1080. Resolution, contrast and color comparisons should still hold up pretty well regardless of being shot in a different location. Of course, not being as good as a 3-chip Sim2 is hardly a terrible place to be.

We can only hope else this place would start to get boring.:)

While I'm not expecting 2.4:1 PJs this year, I would be surprised if someone doesn't field a 1.85:1 PJ at CEDIA/CES this year. Or some other higher than 1080x1920 native size. if you can't beat'em on contrast, it adding more pixels is mighty tempting.

Does anyone know if the HT5000 is going to get DC4 chips at some point?

Does anyone know if the HT5000 is going to get DC4 chips at some point?


No announcement by Sim2 yet is what I understand.

While I'm not expecting 2.4:1 PJs this year, I would be surprised if someone doesn't field a 1.85:1 PJ at CEDIA/CES this year. Or some other higher than 1080x1920 native size.
So you think they are going to spend tens of millions retooling for 1.85:1? What crack are you smoking John :)?

Well, perhaps you are right for 1.85:1, though I could see someone like JVC doing it. But let's see, what's the new resolution standard for computers, that'd be 1600x2560. 2560 / 1080 = 2.37:1.

We measured the on/ off last night on my HT5000 using Ken's Minolta light meter and we got 6297:1 just for the record.

Art

where are the screenshots ?

The thread went into a meltdown, needing intervention. The original intent was lost.

I'd personally like to see only higher on/ off. We measured just under 6000:1 two weeks ago on mine which certainly is wonderful being the highest on/ off of any production three chjip DLP I know of but yes a two lamper with an even tighter fixed iris could hit close to 10,000:1 I bet. Otherwise this is just such a gorgeous device with liitle to want.

Art

hi Art
on the on off issue: it all depends on the screen format i'd say:
while a JVC HD100 is cool especially if you have a standard 16/9 screen so the black bars are quite black, once one has a scope screen in a black room, i find this massive on off ratio less paramount
take digital cinemap 3DLP: on off is around 2000:1 but as we all know screen is scope, brightness is massive and ansi contrast probably around 600:1
and frankly i never needed more on off. the punch is enormous.
so yes it would be nice to have 50000:1 on off on dlp but the ansi contrast is so important: intra image contrast is paramount and puts lcos lcd to shame.
the 3D is produces is so important.
so imho what matters is :
ansi contrast
scope screen (curved)
lens
black room
big screen (350-500cm width)
bright 3DLP (1200-2500lumens)

The thread went into a meltdown, needing intervention. The original intent was lost.


? que passa ?

where are the screenshots ?
Here's of combination of the latest two shots that were posted. Mystery projector on top.

The thread went into a meltdown, needing intervention. The original intent was lost.

CM, the original intent was only clear to you, the rest of us were scratching our heads because only you know the mystery projector. Did the Giants beat the Patriots? Or the local high school team? Many of us were quite insulted that you think we can't handle the identity of the projector, therefore, you kind of caused the meltdown you were trying to avoid by protecting us from this key bit of info. Unless the other PJ cost $20K and up and is considered to be a direct competitor, why would anyone be upset? My dad's S2000 outperforms my Mazda5. This somehow doesn't bother me to know that and i certainly don't need to be 'protected' from that data.

IOW, if you want to resurrect the original intent, which was to show how great the C3X1080 is, apparently, just tell us the other PJ and maybe everyone will go WOW!!!! Or, maybe everyone will just say 'of course!' Or maybe we'll say "wow, 3 chip *is* better than 1 chip' or "maybe it *is* worth it to spend the extra money over 3-chip LCoS". But I don't think anyone is going to take it as personally as saying we can't handle the information. THAT is insulting, despite not being your intent.

BTW, i put 300 from the Dish on my IN76 and the reds were clearly not as good, nor was the resolution, but I just got the HD-DVD so I can apply that to the IN82 and post screenshots of that. Of course, we're talking single chips.

Here's of combination of the latest two shots that were posted. Mystery projector on top.


having followed the ups and downs of this thread I must say that seeing those two photos displayed together like that is most convincing

Here's of combination of the latest two shots that were posted. Mystery projector on top.

the one on top is a 720p i guess and the one below a 1080p?
seems sharper. but reveals more grain/video noise.

typical of 1080p machines: i remember comparing the dvd of HILLS HAVE EYES on a 1024x576 pj and on a HD1: the HD1 revealed more artefacts, noise.
which is logical, normal.

Anybody know what frame in the movie those are?

Art
this is a HT i did in November. curved 335cm wide scope mp screen
(client could not afford the C3X1080 or the HT5000 :D so it's an HD100)
with that kind of set up a 3DLP with just 3000:1 on off would be more than enough in on off contrast

Both 1080.


go on :)

Art
this is a HT i did in November. curved 335cm wide scope mp screen
(client could not afford the C3X1080 or the HT5000 :D so it's an HD100)
with that kind of set up a 3DLP with just 3000:1 on off would be more than enough in on off contrast

Where are you located.

Art

Found the frame and I can say than the IN82 looks better than the mystery projector, even here in an undarkened room - sharper, a bit better color maybe. i'll take a photo tonight. Doesn't seem to quite match the C3X1080 though, nor should it. I'd be surprised if the mystery projector is a DLP, I'm going to guess LCoS, possibly Sony or JVC.

keep in mind that, I haven't done any calibration yet on mine, haven't had the time, so with a bit of color tweaking, I think I can get the color a lot closer. So, while the C3X1080 might be king of the hill, the hill isn't really that tall and $5k gets you awfully darned close from what I'm seeing.

Here we go again. I though this thread had been ruined once already. The OP specifically explained it was not some BS screenshot thread. Please let it die gracefully.

Anybody know what frame in the movie those are?
I wanted to see what it would look like on my modest projector so I put 300 on the top of my Netflix queue and arranged to take a screen shot. However, that film is not the type of movie I enjoy, so I didn't bother taking a shot. I think CM's shots were from about the 45 minute mark.

go on :)

Sorry, that was for another thread.

Where are you located.

Art

Europe Belgium (we invented the fries :) )

Europe Belgium (we invented the fries :) )

And the worlds best beer. Massive Trappist fan here.

Rochefort 10 and Westvleteren 12...... holy sh*t

i bumped up the color to 60 on the IN82 and the bronze color is extremely close. You can see how the reds in the C3X1080 are more 'extended' though. More red and less brownish red.

Here we go again. I though this thread had been ruined once already. The OP specifically explained it was not some BS screenshot thread. Please let it die gracefully.

Nobody's ruining anything. We'll just have to live without the knowledge of what we're seeing. Everyone take a screenshot at night and we'll reconvene in about 6 hours :)

And the worlds best beer. Massive Trappist fan here.

Rochefort 10 and Westvleteren 12...... holy sh*t


Hear, hear!
I'm having a Rodenbach Grand Cru tonight.
Maybe with some Belgian fries... ;)

Back on thread:
My money is on the JVC RS2 as the mystery projector.

I'll take my winnings in Trappist Quadrupel form... ;)

Closed.