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Official AVS TiVo HD Topic!

569K views 5K replies 394 participants last post by  Wryker 
#1 ·
Moderators Note

Please see post #2, just below, for full details.
 
#2 ·
 
#3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 /forum/post/0


A doorstop is a device for holding a door open. It doesn't tune in television channels. It doesn't record programming. It doesn't allow you to play recorded programming back.

That pretty much describes an HDTivo IF the cable companies decide to go SDV on all channels. Before you say it won't happen, I have not heard any cable company publicly rule this out.


Moreover, if the vast expansion of HD happens as is touted by DirecTV, many cable companies will put all of these new channels on SDV. So if the 10 or so HD channels remain as is, and the 90 or so additions over the next few years are put on SDV, we have an HDDVR that functions for about 10% of the HD programming.


Plus, I agree with timecop. No firewire = no deal.
 
#4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc10forlife /forum/post/0


That pretty much describes an HDTivo IF the cable companies decide to go SDV on all channels. Before you say it won't happen, I have not heard any cable company publicly rule this out.


Moreover, if the vast expansion of HD happens as is touted by DirecTV, many cable companies will put all of these new channels on SDV. So if the 10 or so HD channels remain as is, and the 90 or so additions over the next few years are put on SDV, we have an HDDVR that functions for about 10% of the HD programming.


The technical term for these arguments is FUD. You can buy the product now and enjoy it for what it does best for as long as it is viable (most likely at least 1-3 years), or you can do without for year after year until your justification becomes true.


I had broadband internet service for 3 years via cable modem while others were suffering though dialup because "DSL is going to blow cable modems out of the water". I could get DSL now if I wanted, but Road Runner is still working fine for me.
 
#6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc10forlife /forum/post/0


That pretty much describes an HDTivo IF the cable companies decide to go SDV on all channels. Before you say it won't happen, I have not heard any cable company publicly rule this out.

I have not heard any cable company publicly say that they would do this, so a8vdeluxe's assertion that it "is a doorstop before even hitting your local store's shelves" is outrageously erroneous. Nothing more than baseless hyperbole meant to make a petty criticism sound like Armageddon. That's really the problem. You people are talking about one of the most extreme scenarios not only as a possibility, not even as an inevitability, but as if it has already come to pass. AND you're refusing to acknowledge the possibility that a technical solution will be arrived at. Denial of reality, after denial of reality, after denial of reality. It's inane.


AND even if your cable company does go fully SDV, and there is no technical solution, the TiVo HD still does OTA.


So please stop with all the self-centered breast-beating. What you mean to say is that you don't like that the TiVo HD may not handle SDV. That's all. Any statement more extreme than that is just blowing smoke.
 
#8 ·
#10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 /forum/post/0


A doorstop is a device for holding a door open. It doesn't tune in television channels. It doesn't record programming. It doesn't allow you to play recorded programming back. Saying that the TiVo HD is a doorstop is erroneous; that is just hyperbole -- an attempt to make a criticism seem more important than it really is.


Keep it real.

OK, neither device supports on demand, SDV, TiVo to go, multi room viewing, eSATA or IEEE 1394 connectivity.
 
#13 ·
8300HDC is the right product for some people. The TiVo S3 or TiVo HD is the right product for others.


Why do some people buy Apple iMacs? They run on Intel now, so the differences from Wintel boxes are less and less. Some people just like the user interface and overall design philosophy better. It isn't necessarily something you reduce down to a feature list, rather it is the accumulation of lots of little annoyances.


On the other hand, those annoyances don't bother other people as much and TiVo will have its own issues that will bother them more.
 
#14 ·
So I was looking for reviews about 8300 to see if they allowed 30 second skip to be enabled (for some people that feature alone is a deal breaker) I came across this article.
http://channels.isp.netscape.com/tec...sp?page=tivos3
Quote:
Our cable company eventually came to the rescue with the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000HD, soon to be replaced with the 8300HD. It was a love/hate relationship from the very beginning. The dual tuner box gave us HDTV picture quality, and TV never looked better. Only one problem, the thing was unimaginably unreliable. Out of 16 shows we recorded for the week, the machine somehow managed to record only 11 of them. I figured that we had a lemon, so I returned the 8300HD to my cable provider and got another one. Same problem, different shows. Then I exchanged the latest box for another, and another, and another. It soon became clear that there was a trend emerging. The ReplayTV got even more use as a backup device for those inevitable times when the 8300HD coughed up a furball. I decided that no matter the cost, I was going to have to find an HD DVR that was reliable and operated at least as well as our trusty little ReplayTV. I also wanted my 30 second skip back, and a more advanced program search system. I didn't have to look very far, as all the AV message boards pointed me in only one direction -- the TiVo Series 3.

...

Now came the fun part: telling the TiVo which shows to record. There are several different ways to search for your favorite shows, via a program grid, through a keyword search, or you can have TiVo find programs of interest based on what you've recorded in the past. TiVo will also record a season pass of your favorite shows so you don't have to tell the unit to record them every time they're on. You can even tell TiVo to record only first run shows (no more repeats!), a great feature lacking on both my 8300HD and the Replay. To view pending recordings you have to go to the ToDo screen, which requires a couple of button presses. While this is very easy, it would be even more convenient to additionally see scheduled recordings right on the program grid. Many other DVRs put a small symbol on the grid or change the grid color to indicate a show that is to be recorded. I'm hoping that a software update from TiVo will add this capability in the future.


After a while, you'll acquire a lot of programming on your TiVo. And unlike the 8300HD, TiVo will remember your place in any show should you not finish viewing it. Simply go back to the recording and TiVo gives you the option of starting over from the beginning, or from where you left off. The Series 3 has a large 250 GB hard disk that can record about 25 hours of high definition or hundreds of hours of standard definition programming, or a combination of the two. There's also a SATA jack on the back of the unit allows you to add an external SATA drive for even more storage. Slightly puzzling is that there's no indication of the remaining space left on the hard drive. I'd settle for a little bar graph, but at least you have a deleted programs folder which will be depleted first, so you'll have some indication of how much space is left.
 
#15 ·
 http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...d.cgi?7721,1#2

And then I came across how people are trying to get 30 second skip to work.
Quote:
I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD. I didn't have much luck trying to accomplish this.


The problem is that the fast forward starts slow and gets faster. The manual says that pressing the fast forward three times plays the video at 32x normal speed but creating a macro that presses the button three times, waits one second then presses play didn't result in a 32 second advance. In fact, it did almost nothing. On the other hand waiting longer (4 or 5 seconds) resulted in an advance of several minutes. While the macro is running you cannot press any other button so I would end up watching my show return from commercial break and keep on going and going and going. In the end the best I could do was create a macro that presses the fast forward three times. Then I watch and when it looks like my show is going to come back on I press play myself.


For anyone who wonders why I don't just press the button three times myself, the Pronto is slow and it almost always results in only two presses.


If anyone has actually got the duration down to a science I would love to hear about it.
 
#17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity /forum/post/0


I'm curious though, other than a slick interface the more I read about HD TiVo's the less it seems there is to differentiate it from an 8300HDC, so why the fascination with this product?

Nothing really, like supermodels, besides that fact that they are hot, what else do they got anyway?


Oh wait, I forgot I use TivoCast a lot, love the CNet reviews. Also love using Unbox $0.99 movie rental special on my Tivo a lot, never have to leave the couch for a movie rental. Sometimes I surf for movie listings on my Tivo. Sometime I access my iTunes library on my Tivo, sometimes I listen to one of them podCasts on my Tivo (online, not from my ow iTunes). You do all that from your 8300HDC?
 
#18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by yunlin12 /forum/post/0


Is there any dual tuner HD cable DVR out there that's $300, have all those features, and does not run cable's POS DVR softwares?

This is a great deal if you also want to buy the tivo listings. If not, it costs $300 plus $100 minimum per year...not such a great deal, but not too bad if the device is good for several years...
 
#20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyvram /forum/post/0


Not true, Replay has had 'record first run episodes only' as an option forever.

Replay implements the feature differently. In Replay skipping repeats is purely a filter on the repeat flag provided by the guide provider.


TiVo compares the episode #s/progids to see if the show has been recorded before, even if it has been watched and deleted.


The way TiVo works, essentially they give you the option to do a theme-based recording and only record particular episodes once. If you create a theme-based record you lose the ability to even filter on the repeat flag.


I have both Replay and TiVo and the TiVo handling of repeats is more flexible and more immune to guide data errors. It is however vulnerable to shows being preempted and the guide data not being updated in time, for example if the president addresses the nation. In that case if the guide data doesn't get updated in time, it will record the president, thinking it is an episode of CSI, then when the actual episode airs a week later, it will think it is a repeat (this is the famous 28-day rule). In replay you only need to delete the bogus episode and it will record the following week.
 
#21 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub /forum/post/0


Replay implements the feature differently. In Replay skipping repeats is purely a filter on the repeat flag provided by the guide provider.


TiVo compares the episode #s/progids to see if the show has been recorded before, even if it has been watched and deleted.


The way TiVo works, essentially they give you the option to do a theme-based recording and only record particular episodes once. If you create a theme-based record you lose the ability to even filter on the repeat flag.


I have both Replay and TiVo and the TiVo handling of repeats is more flexible and more immune to guide data errors. It is however vulnerable to shows being preempted and the guide data not being updated in time, for example if the president addresses the nation. In that case if the guide data doesn't get updated in time, it will record the president, thinking it is an episode of CSI, then when the actual episode airs a week later, it will think it is a repeat (this is the famous 28-day rule). In replay you only need to delete the bogus episode and it will record the following week.

Ah. Thanks for the explanation. That does seem a more reliable way of handling 'no repeats'.
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by yunlin12 /forum/post/0


Is there any dual tuner HD cable DVR out there that's $300, have all those features, and does not run cable's POS DVR softwares?

Thanks but I'll stick with my, Cisco branded, $20 per month 8300HDC for now. I would buy a 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR for $299.99 if it came with an active eSATA & IEEE 1394 interface. Add the subscription fee and a HD TiVo really costs $598.99



Perhaps two years from now there will be a TiVo S5 that supports these features.
 
#23 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by yunlin12 /forum/post/0

https://www3.tivo.com/index.html

I work for http://hdinstallers.com I've installed a couple of these. The customers are very happy with them. It seems a little slower in processing than the previous models durring setup. I may get it but I'm going to wait until the second or thrid version comes out and doens't have so the potential for so many problems.
 
#24 ·
This article is old referencing the Series 3 HD DVR. The underlined statement is incorrect about the 8300 HD not being able to tell if a show is a repeat. There is a menu option to record "First Run only on this channel". There may be some cable companies that still use an old EPG that doesn't have the First Run Flags enabled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub /forum/post/0


So I was looking for reviews about 8300 to see if they allowed 30 second skip to be enabled (for some people that feature alone is a deal breaker) I came across this article.
http://channels.isp.netscape.com/tec...sp?page=tivos3
Quote:
TiVo Series 3 HD DVR


By Dawn Gordon Luks


I’ve lived with one Digital Video Recorder of one kind or another for the past eight years. My first experience with automated time-shifting came with ReplayTV, a single tuner device that ran rings around even the smartest VCR. My husband and I loved the Replay because it automatically taped our favorite shows, and had this cool 30 second skip that had us zipping through commercials at light speed. Of course, in deference to its namesake, it could also replay the past 8 seconds of live TV at the touch of a button, or even pause live TV -- a great convenience for those times when a phone call from Grandma came in during a favorite show. At the time we bought the ReplayTV, the company was offering lifetime program listings for an extra $200, and we figured that was a good deal to avoid the monthly service fees. The little ReplayTV did it’s job well, and is still chugging along in our media closet, so we definitely got our money’s worth out of that purchase.


Enter HDTV. Like many people, once we were able to receive HDTV we became hooked, and searched out even the most obscure programming just because it was high-def. The wilds of Patagonia never seemed more interesting. However, soon enough, more and more prime time shows had begun their move to the rectangular screen, and we didn’t have a way to record them in their full HD glory.


Our cable company eventually came to the rescue with the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000HD, soon to be replaced with the 8300HD. It was a love/hate relationship from the very beginning. The dual tuner box gave us HDTV picture quality, and TV never looked better. Only one problem, the thing was unimaginably unreliable. Out of 16 shows we recorded for the week, the machine somehow managed to record only 11 of them. I figured that we had a lemon, so I returned the 8300HD to my cable provider and got another one. Same problem, different shows. Then I exchanged the latest box for another, and another, and another. It soon became clear that there was a trend emerging. The ReplayTV got even more use as a backup device for those inevitable times when the 8300HD coughed up a furball. I decided that no matter the cost, I was going to have to find an HD DVR that was reliable and operated at least as well as our trusty little ReplayTV. I also wanted my 30 second skip back, and a more advanced program search system. I didn’t have to look very far, as all the AV message boards pointed me in only one direction -- the TiVo Series 3.


The TiVo Series 3 DVR can record two high definition channels simultaneously, while you’re watching a third off the hard disk. To get the most out of your TiVo you’ll need HDTV cable service. The unit can record HD from a terrestrial antenna, but you’ll no doubt want more than just a few off-air channels. Satellite reception is not available with this box.


The most difficult part in setting up the Series 3 is (a) Getting your cable company to show up and (b) Having them bring multiple cable cards just in case. We were very lucky that our particular technician knew what he was doing, and out of the 6 cards he brought, 2 of them worked - one for each tuner in the DVR. Even if you don’t have the smartest cable tech don’t worry, if you follow TiVo’s instructions to the letter, the install should go perfectly.


After the cable guy left, I started the TiVo setup procedure and it went very smoothly. To connect to the TiVo service you must have either an internet connection (wired or wireless) or a standard telephone jack to connect to the rear of the DVR. Luckily, we happened to have a wired Ethernet switch in our media closet, and the TiVo was able to download the 2-week program guide extremely quickly.


Now came the fun part: telling the TiVo which shows to record. There are several different ways to search for your favorite shows, via a program grid, through a keyword search, or you can have TiVo find programs of interest based on what you’ve recorded in the past. TiVo will also record a season pass of your favorite shows so you don’t have to tell the unit to record them every time they’re on. You can even tell TiVo to record only first run shows (no more repeats!), a great feature lacking on both my 8300HD and the Replay. To view pending recordings you have to go to the ToDo screen, which requires a couple of button presses. While this is very easy, it would be even more convenient to additionally see scheduled recordings right on the program grid. Many other DVRs put a small symbol on the grid or change the grid color to indicate a show that is to be recorded. I’m hoping that a software update from TiVo will add this capability in the future.


After a while, you’ll acquire a lot of programming on your TiVo. And unlike the 8300HD, TiVo will remember your place in any show should you not finish viewing it. Simply go back to the recording and TiVo gives you the option of starting over from the beginning, or from where you left off. The Series 3 has a large 250 GB hard disk that can record about 25 hours of high definition or hundreds of hours of standard definition programming, or a combination of the two. There’s also a SATA jack on the back of the unit allows you to add an external SATA drive for even more storage. Slightly puzzling is that there’s no indication of the remaining space left on the hard drive. I’d settle for a little bar graph, but at least you have a deleted programs folder which will be depleted first, so you’ll have some indication of how much space is left.


Of course, the TiVo excels at controlling live TV. The box has instantaneous control of pausing, and replaying the past 8 seconds of live TV. There’s even the most welcome 30-second skip, but you have to know how to enable it, as TiVo doesn’t ship the Series 3 with this feature enabled. Just go to the internet and go a Google search, and you’ll find out how to turn it on.


There are many other features available on the Series 3. For example, you can wirelessly connect your TiVo to your network and stream music and photos from your home PC to be played back on the DVR. You can also connect to the internet and download content and product info, get weather reports and check local movie theaters for movie times. One of my favorite sites is the Onion, which features an hilariously funny daily clip. You can use the internet to connect to your TiVo and tell it to record a show from anywhere.


Most recently TiVo has added Amazon Unbox connectivity, and it’s really cool. You set up an account with Amazon, and you can download TV shows and movies to buy or rent. I was amazed at both how fast a movie downloaded from via our broadband connection (less than 15 minutes) and how good the picture quality was.


The TiVo Series 3 is easily the best DVR on the planet right now, and at $799 plus a monthly service fee ($8.31 - $12.95) it’s not cheap but you get what you pay for. Like anything else, though, it’s not perfect. I would love to see a PIP window with a live view during program grid and menu viewing, a speedier fast forward and rewind, as well as some of the other suggestions mentioned previously. But these are relatively small gripes that are outweighed by so many truly wonderful features. The Series 3 has fantastic picture quality, is easy to use, and offers so much more than anything else available today. I love my TiVo.
http://channels.isp.netscape.com/tec...sp?page=tivos3
 
#25 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity /forum/post/0


Thanks but I'll stick with my, Cisco branded, $20 per month 8300HDC for now. I would buy a 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR for $299.99 if it came with an active eSATA & IEEE 1394 interface. Add the subscription fee and a HD TiVo really costs $598.99

Not really getting the price advantage of cable DVR


3 years of Tivo HD:

$299 HW, $299 3-year service, $2/mon * 36 mon for 2 CC (my area) = $670, and you own the box.


3 years of 8300HDC:

$20/mon * 36 mon = $720
 
#26 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussB /forum/post/0


This article is old referencing the Series 3 HD DVR. The underlined statement is incorrect about the 8300 HD not being able to tell if a show is a repeat. There is a menu option to record "First Run only on this channel". There may be some cable companies that still use an old EPG that doesn't have the First Run Flags enabled.

If you'd like, read about how the different ways such a feature can be implemented. You can decide for yourself which method is more reliable. Personally I've found TiVo's method more reliable and flexible.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...post11145737
 
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