[wajo]

HDTV Passthru... "Aspect" and Recording 16:9 Widescreen (WS) Programs

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HDTV Passthru
Widescreen Rant and Answer to "4:3" Recording Comment in Manual
16:9 Widescreen - A New World of "Aspect Ratios"
How To Set Your DVDR for 16:9 Widescreen Recording
For Users of a Cableco/Satco Set-Top Box (STB)
Tests on Recording/Playback of 16:9 WS Programs thru the Tuner
Recording a 4:3 Analog Channel with a 16:9 Wide Setting

HDTV Passthru

This DVDR has an active (amplified) RF/coax passthru that is, internally, separate from the tuner. The coax in/out loop delivers and slightly amplifies whatever signal is fed in, including hi-def TV (HDTV) in its native form, directly to your TV and other downstream components, even when this DVDR is off.

On a separate internal path, the incoming RF/coax signal is slightly amplified and fed to this DVDR's std def. (SDTV) tuner. This allows you to watch your normal HD on your TV AND record on this DVDR at the same time.

However, this DVDR... and ALL SDTV DVD recorders in North America... downrezzes the HDTV signal path that goes thru its tuner or line inputs so it can record in 480i as required by the SDTV DVD-Video standard. For watching DVDR channels or recordings on your TV, the downrezzed signal can be converted to 480p thru Component and HDMI, or converted and uprezzed to 720p, 1080i or 1080p thru HDMI, if desired.

If you want to RECORD HDTV video in its native hi-def on a standalone DVD recorder you don't have to rent, you'll have to move to Japan and change your name to Sokitumi.

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Widescreen Rant and Answer to "4:3" Recording Comment in Manual

[Begin Rant!] You'll hear all sorts of opinions on WS but, just remember, EVERYBODY HAS ONE!

You'll also read posts from people trying to explain or "correct" others with technical details that most timeshifters really don't give a shitzu (RDGAS) about! Some gearheads actually mention the DVD std 720x480 pixel ratio as if it COULD fit 1:1 in either a 4:3 or 16:9 frame... it's neither!

It IS a technical subject, so if you need some basic technical details, here's a Wikipedia entry on Widescreen where you can read a little about why SDTV DVDRs record all content "as 4:3"... DVD std is based on 4:3... and how the combo of square/non-square pixels, variable horiz. rez, compression and decompression explain how our DVDRs can display both 4:3 and 16:9 images.

Wiki also says this about "anamorphic" widescreen (a term you'll see a lot here) that explains the 4:3-to-16:9 transition perfectly if you substitute "combo of square/non-square pixels, variable horiz. rez, compression and decompression" stated above for "camera lenses" and "projection lenses":

"... anamorphic format camera lenses compress the image horizontally so that it fits a standard frame, and anamorphic projection lenses restore the image and spread it over the wide screen."

In any case, THIS discussion is just about RESULTS that I personally see in my daily recordings and specific WS tests. I don't care if this DVDR sets an American, Chinese or Kyrgyzstanian "flag" in WS recordings! I'll leave the technical details to others cuz IDGAS!

As long as this DVDR records both digital WS and analog 4:3 shows in a way that preserves their natural shapes on the HDD and in DVDs and displays them NICELY on 16:9 and 4:3 TVs FROM DIFFERENT PLAYERS, IRDGAS!!

Also, there are MANY set-top boxes (STB) that will NOT send a WS signal thru their Composite or S-Video outputs, so there's no way to get that signal to this DVDR in WS format w/o an intermediary filter/converter... and it's NOT cuz this DVDR can't record WS! And, did I mention, IRRDGAS!!! [End Rant]

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16:9 Widescreen - A New World of "Aspect Ratios"

Bottom Line: Set this DVDR's "TV Aspect" for 16:9 Wide for ALL your recordings, no matter which type of TV you have now. Prevents that "pissed-off" feeling if you don't have a 16:9 HDTV now but get one later!!!

To all old VCR users and analog cable TV subscribers like me: Welcome to the brave, but wild, new world of WS TV! You're in for a treat... a trick, cuz your TV-watching-recording life just got more complicated!

There are many signal and aspect-ratio combinations this DVDR can display and record with its NTSC and ATSC/QAM tuners: the old std 4:3 we're all familiar with, but now, with your new HDTV, you'll also see 4:3 pillarboxed (PB, black bar on each side), 4:3 letterboxed (LB, black bar top and bottom), 4:3 PB+LB ("postage-stamp"), and pure and natural 16:9 WS. It depends on the original production aspect used and your signal source, channel, station, service provider, and type of TV you have for display.

All ANALOG channels show only 4:3 formatted programs. ANALOG channels will be full-screen (FS) 4:3 on a 4:3 TV. A 16:9 TV will add PB bars if the TV is set for "Normal" but Wide, Pan or Zoom TV settings will spread the 4:3 pic to fill the screen (with some loss of PQ).

This DVDR's aspect setting has NO EFFECT whatsoever on ANALOG channels. They will ALWAYS record in 4:3 aspect (same with your old VCR tapes)... only the TV can change the appearance of ANALOG channels and recordings from them.

On the other hand, DIGITAL channels can show programs produced in 4:3 AR AND 16:9 AR, but luckily, when a 4:3 program is broadcast on a digital channel, it comes "prepackaged" with the black bars necessary to display in 4:3 AR on a 16:9 TV. This means, you can set your 16:9 TV for WIDE, and the actual pic for both 4:3 and 16:9 WS programs ON DIGITAL CHANNELS will show in their natural AR, either full-screen 16:9 or as a 4:3 pic nicely packaged with PB bars.

With DIGITAL channels, this DVDR's TV Aspect setting DOES affect the AR of the pic so, if you're in an "evil" mood making copies for your MIL, you can even set this DVDR for 4:3 Letter Box and put LB bars on top and bottom of a natural 16:9 WS program and squish the pic so wheels are oval and people are fat!

Note: Some HDTV's won't properly upscale a 16:9 WS pic sent to it by this DVDR using 480p or 720p. If you can't seem to see or record WS pics thru this DVDR using HDMI, change the format with the HDMI button to all the formats available and see if your HDTV needs one specific HDMI format to show a true WS pic.

To avoid any AR problems with recordings from my DIGITAL channels, I record everything on 16:9 Wide and set my LCD HDTV for Wide, which stretches the pic on ANALOG recordings but displays WS DIGITAL recordings in their normal AR as they're broadcast. (I don't watch live TV thru my DVDRs, only my recordings.) Some combinations of DVDR and TV setting can produce a "postage stamp" in the center of the screen, with bars all around.

One extreme example of today's changing AR on a modern 16:9 HDTV set is "Idol" on Fox digital channel. On my 16:9 LCD TV set for Wide and DVDR set for 16:9 Wide, I just watched and recorded a local news break and lead-ins to the show in 4:3 PB, which led to several commercials alternating between PB and PB+LB, which led to the Idol show broadcast in 16:9 WS "Digital High Definition"... and back and forth for the next hour! It was a fascinating display of aspect ratio variations and, to a vidiot like me, almost a show in itself!

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How To Set Your DVDR for 16:9 Widescreen Recording

Bottom Line: Set this DVDR's "TV Aspect" for 16:9 Wide for ALL your recordings, no matter which type of TV you have now.

Note: Because WS TVs also have an Aspect setting, I'll use "DVDR Aspect" when ref. to the 3575/3576/2160's "TV Aspect" setting, and "TV Aspect" when ref. to the TV's setting.

This DVDR WILL record WS programs on digital channels thru the tuner, line inputs (E1/L1, E2/L2), and DV input (E3/L3). (See this report on recording WS from the E3 (DV) input on a 3575.)

If you set the DVDR Aspect to 16:9 Wide AND the source sends a WS signal.[/b] The DEFAULT setting is 4:3 Letter Box; if you leave it there and later get a 16:9 TV, your current WS recordings will all be squished by LB bars so people will look wider than normal and circles will be flattened ovals... and you'll be royally pissed-off!?

Significantly, this DVDR's Aspect setting is in the Video menu, NOT the Playback menu like it is in some other DVDRs, incl. the Pio 53x/63x/640. This setting determines the pic format you VIEW AND RECORD from a digital channel or other WS source... i.e., YOU can control the recorded aspect! It also allows you to change a commercial WS movie's aspect to 4:3 Letter Box on playback if it has "Enhanced for Widescreen," "Anamorphic Widescreen" or similar notation on the case.

This DVDR's Aspect setting is extremely valuable for recording cuz it makes this DVDR a WYSIWYG machine: What You See Is What You Get. That is, you can SEE what pic format this DVDR will record FROM ANY SOURCE (TV, camera, STB, etc.) in advance by setting or changing its DVDR Aspect and viewing the pic being fed thru the DVDR to your WS TV.

I've noticed that sometimes a change in my DVDR Aspect setting doesn't "take"... the pic hangs on its last aspect and takes a 2nd or even 3rd try at toggling the checkmark to a new aspect setting. If working correctly, once you press the SETUP button to exit the aspect setting menu, the pic should "pop" into its new shape, i.e., you should see a change in aspect almost immediately, but again, only on a digital channel.

You can set your DVDR Aspect for 16:9 Wide for ALL your recordings, as I do, no matter which type of TV you have now.

Note: Some HDTV's won't properly upscale a 16:9 WS pic sent to it by this DVDR using 480p or 720p. If you can't seem to see or record WS pics thru this DVDR using HDMI, change the format with the HDMI button to all those available and see if your HDTV needs one specific HDMI setting to show a true WS pic.

This DVDR doesn't set the "WS flag," which means its DVDs won't be "anamorphic WS" like commercial DVDs, which play perfectly on 16:9 TVs and can be changed to 4:3 LB when played to a 4:3 TV. HOWEVER, I've done many tests and regular daily recordings with my 3575 Aspect set for 16:9 Wide and played them to 16:9 and 4:3 TVs on DIFFERENT brands of players/recorders and, so far, ALL my recordings play back nicely and full-screen from my 3575, Pio 640 and Panny combo... WITHOUT THE "WS FLAG"!

More importantly, this DVDR's WS recordings dubbed to DVD discs will show true WS on virtually any other brand of player/recorder, unlike some -RAM machines that produce DVD±R discs that only play as WS in the same brand of machine.

Also, I simply cannot get the "tall & skinny" people that others report with their DVDRs when recording a natural 16:9 WS program on a digital channel. With the natural 16:9 WS programs I've recorded with DVDR Aspect set for 16:9 Wide, I can only detect a VERY SLIGHT squeeze when played back on a 3575, Pio 640 and Panny combo to a 4:3 TV... and that's only noticeable cuz I'm recording a WS channel with a circle logo (TNT)... people look OK.

I did see one odd-aspect program that produced a taller/skinnier image than I was used to, but it was NOT a natural 16:9 WS program... this might be what others are recording when they say they get grossly tall and skinny people on 4:3 TVs? A program on a WS digital channel with side bars (pillar bars), a "postage-stamp" pic with bars all around, or 2:35 movie could produce an odd-aspect WS recording that shows "funny" on any TV type.

One GOOD thing in the 4:3 vs 16:9 aspect area is that, since this DVDR can be set to RECORD a WS program with 4:3 LB bars, you can purposely record a WS program for someone else who really needs a 4:3 LB DVD, like Granny or Gramps! This is a unique capability cuz you can PRODUCE a recording with LB bars in place so it shows as LB on any TV. The only drawback is that the pic will be VERTICALLY squished on a 16:9 TV so everything will be wider/fatter... so, when you give the LB disc to a friend or relative, tell them you DON'T want it back!

The 16:9 Wide aspect setting doesn't affect analog 4:3 channels, so those record normally. However, if you have a 16:9 TV, you might be like me and run your TV always on its Wide setting. This gives me a slightly stretched pic from analog channels, WHICH LOWERS THE PQ SLIGHTLY (remember that when you or someone else is making PQ comparisons), but I fix that by putting my magnifying glass back in the drawer!

Obviously, you should do similar tests and determine for yourself what's right for your current system, future plans and "pixel sensitivity."

Just remember, to make natural 16:9 WS recordings from a digital channel thru the tuner or an external input, you have to set the DVDR Aspect for 16:9 Wide, and those programs will ONLY be on digital channels, never on analog channels. Also, some STBs won't send a WS signal thru Composite or S-Video outputs (which are the only input types North American DVDRs have today) without an external aspect-controlling device. (More on STBs in the next subject.)

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For Users of a Cableco/Satco Set-Top Box (STB)

WS is easy IF you don't have a cableco/satco STB cuz both are designed to make it difficult for you to record cable or sat shows in full WS to a cheap, standalone DVDR cuz you would obviously just flood the world with cheap copies, become a gazillionaire, buy the entertainment and consumer electronics industries and install the Japanese system, blah, blah, blah!

If your WS programs are delivered to this DVDR thru a line input (E1/L1, E2/L2) from a cableco/satco STB, be aware that many WON'T send a WS signal thru their Composite or S-Video outputs, so you need to check yours. Some cableco/satco boxes that will and some that won't are listed below (NOT all-inclusive, based on user reports, please advise on yours to add to this list).

WILL send WS via Composite/S-Video	WON'T send WS via Composite/S-Video
SA8300HD* SARA (send stretched)	SA3250HD/HDC** Nav, SA8300HDC Nav/PP
DirecTV HR20/HR21/HR22 (settable aspects)	DirecTV HR10***
Sony SAT-HD300	ALL MOTOROLA
Dish VIP622/722*	Dish VIP211

*UseTV1 out, set output to Stretch or Normal dep. on source, use WYSIWG test to see before recording.
**When HDMI output is active on HDC boxes, other output sources are inactive?
***Discontinued, but one user reports his HR10-250 did output anamorphic over comp./S-vid.

In testing your cableco/satco STB, use the WYSIWYG test to see what's being delivered thru E1/L1 or E2/L2... just make sure:

1. STB is tuned to a digital channel showing a true WS program.
2. TV is set for 16:9 Wide.
3. DVDR is set for Video > TV Aspect > 16:9 Wide.

Regardless, there may be some hope for WS from cableco/satco STBs:

1. $56 - Video Scale-down Converter. Takes Component in any scan format (480/720/1080) and converts it to 480i over S-Video or Composite and retains the WS aspect (click "Discussions" at bottom of linked page).
2. $159 - Apple TV Converter. Nextoo tested this device that can take your STB's WS Component (RGB) output and convert it to a WS S-Video output for recording in this DVDR. As a bonus, it also strips CP (see posts 3,4,5 here)... and it costs much less than single-purpose "video filters." However, read Nextoo's comment here about both the Apple TV Converter and the Ambery, mentioned next.
3. $209 - Ambery Converter. People say this is better than the Apple TV Converter?
4. ~$80 - Polaroid DRM-2001G HDD-DVDR. has Component input and outputs 16:9 via Comp./S-Vid, plus it strips copy-protection.

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Tests on Recording/Playback of 16:9 WS Programs thru the Tuner

Prompted by some users' negative and erroneous comments, I recorded a natural 16:9 WS movie on TNT's digital channel, which has an ideal logo for seeing aspect-shaping effects: the letters "TNT" inside a perfect circle.

I recorded two sections of the movie: one with my 3575 Aspect set for 4:3 Letter Box (LB) and one set for 16:9 Wide... noted below as "4:3 LB Rec" and "16:9 Wide Rec".

I high-speed dubbed the recordings to a DVD-R, finalized, and played them on my 3575 and a Pio 640 connected to my 47" LCD TV, as well as a 3575, a Panasonic combo unit, and a Pio 640 connected to a std 4:3 TV.

While viewing on my 16:9 LCD TV, I switched the TV Aspect between "Wide" and "Normal" (4:3) so I could tell which was the natural aspect of the recorded image based not only on size and shape of people but, in the final analysis, on the shape of the circle-logo.

16:9 Rec... Played on 3575... to 16:9 LCD... via Composite and HDMI:

• 4:3 LB Rec
  TV Wide: displayed as 16:9 LB with TNT's circle-logo now an oval-logo and wider people, so the natural 16:9 WS image had been unnaturally squished by the LB setting.
  TV Normal (4:3): centered 4:3 pic in black frame, and people and logo returned to normal shape. Again, this showed that the 3575 had converted and recorded the natural 16:9 WS program in a 4:3 LB format, just as it was set to do.

• 16:9 Wide Rec
  TV Wide: displayed as natural 16:9 WS with a perfect circle-logo and normal people. If the 3575 had recorded a 4:3 image, the pic would be unnaturally stretched with wider people and oval logo, i.e., it would look exactly like my analog 4:3 channels look (as I described above).
  TV Normal (4:3): centered full-height 4:3 pic, sqeezed logo into very slightly vertical oval, and made people very slightly taller, so it changed the recorded natural 16:9 WS image into a horizontally squeezed 4:3 image. This showed that the 3575 had recorded a true 16:9 format, as it was set to do, not a 4:3 image.

16:9 Rec... Played on Pio 640... to LCD... via Component:

• 4:3 LB Rec
  TV Wide: displayed as 16:9 LB with TNT's circle-logo now an oval-logo and wider people.
  TV Normal (4:3): centered 4:3 pic in black frame, and people and logo were shaped correctly for the 4:3 LB setting.

• 16:9 Wide Rec
  TV Wide: displayed as natural 16:9 WS with a perfect circle-logo and normal people. Again, if the 3575 had recorded a 4:3 format, the pic would be unnaturally stretched with wider people and oval logo.
  TV Normal (4:3): centered full-height 4:3 pic, sqeezed logo into slightly vertical oval, and made people slightly taller, symptoms again of a natural 16:9 WS pic being squeezed to fit the TV's 4:3 setting.

16:9 Rec... Played on 3575, Pio 640, and Panasonic Combo... to 4:3 CRT... via Composite:

• 4:3 LB Rec
  Pic displayed as 4:3 LB w/normal TNT circle-logo and people.

• 16:9 Wide Rec
  Pic displayed as 4:3 full-screen with normal-looking people, and I had to look very closely and compare to 4:3 LB rec to notice a slightly squeezed, almost imperceptible vertical oval around the TNT logo... I mean, it was very hard to tell a diff. and took many comparisons to the perfect circle in the 4:3 LB rec.

Remember, just cuz a program appears on a digital channel doesn't mean it's being broadcast in natural 16:9 WS format. There are many digital channels that send a 4:3 LB/PB format and there's no way for your TV to display it or your 3575 to record those pics in natural, not artificially reshaped, 16:9 format... the pic you receive has to be in natural 16:9 format to start with.

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Recording a 4:3 Analog Channel with a 16:9 Wide Setting

If you record an analog 4:3 channel on 16:9 Wide setting, you should see the following results, at least based on my tests.

On a 4:3 TV, the pic will be full-screen (no bars) with people and objects looking quite normal.

On a 16:9 TV set for WS, the pic will be full-screen and very slightly stretched from side-to-side. This will make the pic appear "normal" and only close inspection and switching the TV's aspect between Wide 16:9 and Normal 4:3 will show a slightly degraded PQ and some stretching of the 4:3 frame to 16:9 aspect. People will have slightly longer noses and everything else will be slightly wider... doesn't bother me but might bother you?

On a 16:9 TV set for Normal 4:3, the pic will have side bars (pillar bars) and people and objects will be perfectly normal.

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