Velocity Micro MCE

BenMiller · 03-15-07, 11:59 AM

I have a similar question that does apply only to DCTs. I should be able to use one DCT with a CableCard and a second DCT without a CableCard. Premium and other encrypted channels would be available only from the first DCT but unencrypted channels would be available from both. Although I find that I frequently record two shows with my current cable DVR, I almost never record two encrypted channels at the same time. Would the system be able to handle this configuration.

Specifically, I want to be able to record both Rome (HBO HD encrypted) and Desperate Housewives (local network channel HD unencrypted) at the same time. Can I do this with two DCTs but with only one CableCard?

jason_j_a · 03-15-07, 12:19 PM

The DCT shows up under the digital key, there is no new key. Again I think Media Center uses the "SupportedTunerSpaces and ConfiguredTunerSpaces" keys under a device to figure this out.

You can have two digital tuners (for example a HDTV Wonder with the DCT) The HDTV Wonder only supports and is configured for one space (whichis the ATSC space). The DCT has 4 supported spaces but only 3 are under the configured spaces when setup for digital cable. The key for ATSC is missing in the configured but present in the supported. I assume this is how Media Center knows to use the HDTV Wonder for ATSC.

ChrisMorley · 03-15-07, 12:23 PM

BenMiller - yes, I have used a Digital Cable Tuner without a Cable Card - it got analog channels just fine, but this was before we had finalized our BIOS - it should support clear QAM just fine, however.

BenMiller · 03-15-07, 12:36 PM

Chris, I understand that the DCT will support clear QAM. My question is whether the Vista Media Center software could keep the distinction straight if one DCT had a CableCard and a second DCT did not. Is there a way to specify which DCT to use for a specific channel, since the clear QAM channels would be available on both DCTs but the encrypted ones would be available on only one?

ChrisMorley · 03-15-07, 12:58 PM

Good question. =)

jayfl77 · 03-15-07, 01:04 PM

It wont be too long before the registry is hacked like in MCE 2005 to get over the tuner limit. It may have been already, just haven't been looking into it.

jason_j_a · 03-15-07, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayfl77

It wont be too long before the registry is hacked like in MCE 2005 to get over the tuner limit. It may have been already, just haven't been looking into it.

Already has been.
http://mce.ramonvanbruggen.nl/index....&id=1&Itemid=3

Axlrod · 03-15-07, 01:09 PM

The Registry hacks (and utilities) for 2005 work exactly the same for Vista (I have 6 ATSC and 3 NTSC tuners in 1 system. I don't record on them all at once very often. The more things that are recording, the faster the hard drive you are recording to has to be. I've never recorded more than 4 ATSC and 1 NTSC at once on my RAID, but I didn't have any problems with that many.

robneal81 · 03-15-07, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisMorley

Sure, I'll try it out with 1GB of RAM and an E6300.

Hi Chris,

How do you think that system will perform with two cable card tuners and a blu-ray drive? Would I still be able to use it to it's theoretical highest performance (record two different HDTV shows while watching a Blu-ray movie)? Thanks!!

ChrisMorley · 03-15-07, 02:17 PM

Don't think it'll be enough. I'd recommend a quad core at that level. I'm looking at 50% CPU utilization on an Athlon 64 X2 5600+ with an X1950 Pro on a VC1 Blu-ray disk - H.264 will be worse. Watching and recording a single DCT stream is good for 30-40% utilization on an E6700. Good news is CPU prices are coming WAY down on the Intel side in the next couple of months.

rlundy · 03-15-07, 02:33 PM

Chris, we might want to caveat the performance considerations with a note that current video card drivers under vista don't seem to be making use of any (or few) of the acceleration features that are built into the cards. Ditto for the built in decoder. Lots of people saw major performance loss going from XP to Vista primarily because of half baked drivers and decoders.

Also, there are two types of users here-one may want two DCTs, Two ATSC Tuners, plus Blu-Ray, plus HDDVD. and any sort of playback of BD or HDDVD is going to be processor intensive until the vid card drivers take up some slack. then there are those of us that will do any sort of viewing using a 360-and should therefore have pretty moderate performance needs-recording several streams (4) and reading one off the hardrive is not that processor intensive-though 4 atsc streams might choke a non-raid 0 system.

ChrisMorley · 03-15-07, 02:45 PM

Definitely, I'm working on the best way of communicating that....

GamingDoc · 03-15-07, 04:33 PM

Hey Chris. So are the units with DCT's ready to start shipping tomorrow? Is the testing with the cableCARDs going well?

Bob

ChrisMorley · 03-15-07, 05:23 PM

Testing is good - Grand Theater systems look to be 100% and we're shipping next week. Pro Cinemas are a few days behind due to issues with Asus.

shk718 · 03-16-07, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisMorley

Testing is good - Grand Theater systems look to be 100% and we're shipping next week. Pro Cinemas are a few days behind due to issues with Asus.

Hey - sounds fantastic - so chris do you have an answer - if 1 tuner has a cable card and the other doesn't is the OS smart enough to figure out which one to use?

also can more hard drives be added easily if my system is set up for RAID1?

GamingDoc · 03-16-07, 02:05 PM

Chris, I've been reading in a separate thread about people not being able to get full surround sound using their Blue Ray with Vista and UltraDVD from their SPDIF connection from their PC. Has this been an issue with your testing on the Grand Cinema systems? I'm planning on using this connection to my Yamaha amp to my surround speakers. Apparently these people have had it work fine with XP, but not with Vista.

Bob

mkennedy96 · 03-17-07, 09:37 PM

Has anyone had their status changed to 'In Assembly'? Mine still shows that it has cleared Staged for Assembly, but nothing else.

ChrisMorley · 03-17-07, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GamingDoc

Chris, I've been reading in a separate thread about people not being able to get full surround sound using their Blue Ray with Vista and UltraDVD from their SPDIF connection from their PC. Has this been an issue with your testing on the Grand Cinema systems? I'm planning on using this connection to my Yamaha amp to my surround speakers. Apparently these people have had it work fine with XP, but not with Vista.

Bob

We use the Play BD plug-in from Cyberlink and it works just fine - I just watched Superman Returns at home on Blu-ray in DD 5.1 the other night...

Also, you guys should expect your status to be upgraded this week...

Raduque · 03-17-07, 10:13 PM

This is exciting news. The first CableCard-certified Vista MCE boxes are finally shipping!

I realize VM is in it to make money and sell complete systems, but, is it possible to only buy a "bare-bones" CC machine? Ex: Motherboard, boot HD (preloaded with Vista), CableCard and HDCP-vidcard? I already have a CPU, DDR2, and mass quantities of storage, I just need the CableCard itself, HDCP vidcard and preloaded, preconfigured Vista.

BenMiller · 03-17-07, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisMorley

Also, you guys should expect your status to be upgraded this week...

My current status on my CineMagix S85 (with Digital Cable Tuner) is STAGED FOR ASSEMBLY >> IN PROGRESS with an Est Ship Date of 3/21/2007. What shipping date should I really expect? I doubt it will ship next Wednesday if it hasn't completed STAGED FOR ASSEMBLY yet.

My timing was lucky in that I needed to buy a new media center/gaming/general purpose computer now, so I can get the CableCard support. I delayed my purchase several weeks waiting for availablility of the Digital Cable Tuner, but I would have been buying a new machine now anyway. I understand the frustration of the people with relatively new machines who cannot upgrade.

tkole · 03-18-07, 12:00 AM

Chris, it appears that you guys use the origen ae x11 htpc case for your mce machines, correct? If so, what vfd/irtrans driver do you use for vista mce?

GamingDoc · 03-18-07, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkennedy96

Has anyone had their status changed to 'In Assembly'? Mine still shows that it has cleared Staged for Assembly, but nothing else.

Mine has been "IN ASSEMBLY: >>In Progress" for a couple of weeks with an original to ship date of 3/2/07. From talking to VM it sounds like mine will be one of the first to go. I'll surely give you all a review as soon as I get her up and running.

sanne · 03-18-07, 03:01 AM

Thank god for companies like Velocity Micro. I was ready to declare CableCard PC's officially DOA, but VM is keeping the hope alive.

Let's pray somebody can hack the living crap out of all these security features so we can install these tuners on our own machines.

GamingDoc · 03-19-07, 03:00 AM

Chris...different topic. I ordered a Microsoft Remote 3-in-1 keyboard with my VM CineMagix Grand Theater Entertainment System. I also like to do a lot gaming (the mouse on that keyboard won't cut it for games), and wonder if it would be compatible to hook up a separate cordless mouse (like a Logitech G7) with this? Or would the two separate wireless systems not work together?

tpfarr · 03-19-07, 07:11 AM

I can't wait to see the threads on trying to get the cable companies to actually get a cable card in one of these things. Should be a real hoot.

ChrisMorley · 03-19-07, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GamingDoc

Chris...different topic. I ordered a Microsoft Remote 3-in-1 keyboard with my VM CineMagix Grand Theater Entertainment System. I also like to do a lot gaming (the mouse on that keyboard won't cut it for games), and wonder if it would be compatible to hook up a separate cordless mouse (like a Logitech G7) with this? Or would the two separate wireless systems not work together?

If I were you I'd highly suggest upgrading to the Microsoft Wireless Entertainment Desktop 7000 - you can call sales to get that taken care of. It's the best gaming solution for the living room.

ChrisMorley · 03-19-07, 08:39 AM

Guys - as a courtesy to all of you at AVSForums we'd like to make sure we take care of you all first. Please email me your order number IF we have already missed your shipping date and I will make sure you are the first to get your systems.

cmorley AT velocitymicro DOT com.

Shiba3420 · 03-19-07, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpfarr

I can't wait to see the threads on trying to get the cable companies to actually get a cable card in one of these things. Should be a real hoot.

For better or worse, I don't have time to deal with the cable company for the next few weeks/months, so I'll just have to use the DCT as a regular tuner for a while. I'm not looking forward to the problems.

Shiba3420 · 03-19-07, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisMorley

Guys - as a courtesy to all of you at AVSForums we'd like to make sure we take care of you all first. Please email me your order number IF we have already missed your shipping date and I will make sure you are the first to get your systems.

cmorley AT velocitymicro DOT com.

Thanks Chris, but I'll wait my turn. Are you still thinking the first system will ship in the next few days and that it will only take 1 to 2 weeks for VM to fully catch up?

ChrisMorley · 03-19-07, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiba3420

Thanks Chris, but I'll wait my turn. Are you still thinking the first system will ship in the next few days and that it will only take 1 to 2 weeks for VM to fully catch up?

I believe the first systems to actually hit the UPS trucks will be Thursday or Friday at the very latest. I do not believe there will be any more delays. We are so comfortable with this that we are sending DCT systems out for review right now.

03-15-07, 11:59 AM	#91 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
BenMiller Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 49	I have a similar question that does apply only to DCTs. I should be able to use one DCT with a CableCard and a second DCT without a CableCard. Premium and other encrypted channels would be available only from the first DCT but unencrypted channels would be available from both. Although I find that I frequently record two shows with my current cable DVR, I almost never record two encrypted channels at the same time. Would the system be able to handle this configuration. Specifically, I want to be able to record both Rome (HBO HD encrypted) and Desperate Housewives (local network channel HD unencrypted) at the same time. Can I do this with two DCTs but with only one CableCard?

03-15-07, 12:23 PM	#93 \| Link
ChrisMorley Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 770	BenMiller - yes, I have used a Digital Cable Tuner without a Cable Card - it got analog channels just fine, but this was before we had finalized our BIOS - it should support clear QAM just fine, however. __________________ www.morleydigital.com Custom Computers and Gaming PCs

03-15-07, 12:58 PM	#95 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
ChrisMorley Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 770	Good question. =) __________________ www.morleydigital.com Custom Computers and Gaming PCs

03-15-07, 02:17 PM	#100 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
ChrisMorley Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 770	Don't think it'll be enough. I'd recommend a quad core at that level. I'm looking at 50% CPU utilization on an Athlon 64 X2 5600+ with an X1950 Pro on a VC1 Blu-ray disk - H.264 will be worse. Watching and recording a single DCT stream is good for 30-40% utilization on an E6700. Good news is CPU prices are coming WAY down on the Intel side in the next couple of months. __________________ www.morleydigital.com Custom Computers and Gaming PCs

03-15-07, 02:33 PM	#101 \| Link
rlundy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: St. Petersburg FL Posts: 495	Chris, we might want to caveat the performance considerations with a note that current video card drivers under vista don't seem to be making use of any (or few) of the acceleration features that are built into the cards. Ditto for the built in decoder. Lots of people saw major performance loss going from XP to Vista primarily because of half baked drivers and decoders. Also, there are two types of users here-one may want two DCTs, Two ATSC Tuners, plus Blu-Ray, plus HDDVD. and any sort of playback of BD or HDDVD is going to be processor intensive until the vid card drivers take up some slack. then there are those of us that will do any sort of viewing using a 360-and should therefore have pretty moderate performance needs-recording several streams (4) and reading one off the hardrive is not that processor intensive-though 4 atsc streams might choke a non-raid 0 system. __________________ DirecTV + Antenna + 3 Locations = 325 feet of quad shield RG6. AARRGGHH!

03-15-07, 12:19 PM	#92 \| Link
jason_j_a Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 387	The DCT shows up under the digital key, there is no new key. Again I think Media Center uses the "SupportedTunerSpaces and ConfiguredTunerSpaces" keys under a device to figure this out. You can have two digital tuners (for example a HDTV Wonder with the DCT) The HDTV Wonder only supports and is configured for one space (whichis the ATSC space). The DCT has 4 supported spaces but only 3 are under the configured spaces when setup for digital cable. The key for ATSC is missing in the configured but present in the supported. I assume this is how Media Center knows to use the HDTV Wonder for ATSC.

03-15-07, 12:36 PM	#94 \| Link
BenMiller Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 49	Chris, I understand that the DCT will support clear QAM. My question is whether the Vista Media Center software could keep the distinction straight if one DCT had a CableCard and a second DCT did not. Is there a way to specify which DCT to use for a specific channel, since the clear QAM channels would be available on both DCTs but the encrypted ones would be available on only one?

03-15-07, 01:04 PM	#96 \| Link
jayfl77 Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Deltona, FL (Central Florida) Posts: 114	It wont be too long before the registry is hacked like in MCE 2005 to get over the tuner limit. It may have been already, just haven't been looking into it.

03-15-07, 01:09 PM	#98 \| Link
Axlrod In the Know Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Centerville, OH Posts: 72	The Registry hacks (and utilities) for 2005 work exactly the same for Vista (I have 6 ATSC and 3 NTSC tuners in 1 system. I don't record on them all at once very often. The more things that are recording, the faster the hard drive you are recording to has to be. I've never recorded more than 4 ATSC and 1 NTSC at once on my RAID, but I didn't have any problems with that many.

03-15-07, 02:45 PM	#102 \| Link
ChrisMorley Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 770	Definitely, I'm working on the best way of communicating that.... __________________ www.morleydigital.com Custom Computers and Gaming PCs

03-15-07, 04:33 PM	#103 \| Link
GamingDoc Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mukilteo, WA Posts: 30	Ready to ship? Hey Chris. So are the units with DCT's ready to start shipping tomorrow? Is the testing with the cableCARDs going well? Bob

03-15-07, 05:23 PM	#104 \| Link
ChrisMorley Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 770	Testing is good - Grand Theater systems look to be 100% and we're shipping next week. Pro Cinemas are a few days behind due to issues with Asus. __________________ www.morleydigital.com Custom Computers and Gaming PCs

03-16-07, 02:05 PM	#106 \| Link
GamingDoc Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mukilteo, WA Posts: 30	Chris, I've been reading in a separate thread about people not being able to get full surround sound using their Blue Ray with Vista and UltraDVD from their SPDIF connection from their PC. Has this been an issue with your testing on the Grand Cinema systems? I'm planning on using this connection to my Yamaha amp to my surround speakers. Apparently these people have had it work fine with XP, but not with Vista. Bob

03-17-07, 09:37 PM	#107 \| Link
mkennedy96 Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 18	Has anyone had their status changed to 'In Assembly'? Mine still shows that it has cleared Staged for Assembly, but nothing else.

03-17-07, 10:13 PM	#109 \| Link
Raduque Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Corpus Christi, Tx Posts: 43	This is exciting news. The first CableCard-certified Vista MCE boxes are finally shipping! I realize VM is in it to make money and sell complete systems, but, is it possible to only buy a "bare-bones" CC machine? Ex: Motherboard, boot HD (preloaded with Vista), CableCard and HDCP-vidcard? I already have a CPU, DDR2, and mass quantities of storage, I just need the CableCard itself, HDCP vidcard and preloaded, preconfigured Vista.

03-18-07, 12:00 AM	#111 \| Link
tkole Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 197	Chris, it appears that you guys use the origen ae x11 htpc case for your mce machines, correct? If so, what vfd/irtrans driver do you use for vista mce?

03-18-07, 03:01 AM	#113 \| Link
sanne Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 238	Thank god for companies like Velocity Micro. I was ready to declare CableCard PC's officially DOA, but VM is keeping the hope alive. Let's pray somebody can hack the living crap out of all these security features so we can install these tuners on our own machines.

03-19-07, 03:00 AM	#114 \| Link
GamingDoc Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mukilteo, WA Posts: 30	Chris...different topic. I ordered a Microsoft Remote 3-in-1 keyboard with my VM CineMagix Grand Theater Entertainment System. I also like to do a lot gaming (the mouse on that keyboard won't cut it for games), and wonder if it would be compatible to hook up a separate cordless mouse (like a Logitech G7) with this? Or would the two separate wireless systems not work together?

03-19-07, 07:11 AM	#115 \| Link
tpfarr SMTSLT Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Maryland Posts: 566	I can't wait to see the threads on trying to get the cable companies to actually get a cable card in one of these things. Should be a real hoot. __________________ Tom Pfarr www.pfarrout.com/Hometheater.htm

03-19-07, 08:39 AM	#117 \| Link
ChrisMorley Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 770	Guys - as a courtesy to all of you at AVSForums we'd like to make sure we take care of you all first. Please email me your order number IF we have already missed your shipping date and I will make sure you are the first to get your systems. cmorley AT velocitymicro DOT com. __________________ www.morleydigital.com Custom Computers and Gaming PCs