Fuh Yuan to make 2M HD-DVD players for Walmart; Wal-Mart denies rumor

[Urza]

Originally Posted by eddy_winds

Walmart Throws the SS:HD DVD a Lifeline
Cheap HD DVD Players
But will they Sell
LOL

As expected, the spin will go like this in order

Cricket sounds

The Article means Blu

It wont sell(after its clear its HDDVD)

The players are junk(after they sell all 2 mil)

They are buggy(posts by random guys proclaiming discs lock up)

[lovswr]

Originally Posted by lovswr

My co-worker translated it that word the same, & I said "blue laser" but he said "laser" would not be the correct term.


Ok, we are getting a Chines guy in our Dallas office to take a look.




Long live teh intarweb

Ok, our Chinese co-worker in our Dallas office, confirmed that this is HD-DVD. Now he translated something similar to the first one in this post. Fuh Yuan (Tawainese Electronics) will only make the HD-DVD transport, but Wal-Mart will be selling the finished player based around this transport. He told us that it is heavliy implied that somebody else will do the final assembly.

He futher concured that the contract ends in 2008, but he said there is no info on when the finished player shipsu other than in 2007. Now having said that, he also stated that the plant was completed & the opening ceremony was yesterday!!

My take is, the HD DVD trasnport plant is producing right now, & we just need to find out who is doing final assembly.

[SimpleTheater]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

With this information, I think TDK can be involved. Thanks for the link.

I'm back to undecided. There is absolutely no mention anywhere that TDK had anything to do with 51GB HD-DVD, other than that obscure German website.

Once again - I believe the story is about HD-DVD, but I can't fathom TDK's involvement. And Imation's recent purchase of TDK's media storage business has no relation to their R&D.

TDK has created 100 GB Blu-Ray discs, has prototypes for 200 GB Blu-Ray discs. They will own the market on Blu-Ray for years to come. It wouldn't make any business sense to help Toshiba's HD-DVD format.

[Wesley5]

Originally Posted by Kosty

Slow down wmorris!

Let's avoid blue on blue firefights here.

roma_victor said on a whole, the press release is talking about HD DVD players.

Hold your fire, he's agreeing with you.

Let's not get over board with 'petty arguments' here. The reports are very clear it's about (this is a 1st person reading, not 2nd//3rd hand translation):
(1) blue light (laser if you prefer) HD DVD;
(2) the size of the order (2 millions blue light HD DVD players, not core (藍光HD-DVD播放機));
(3) deadline for delivery (before the end of next year, since report was published on 2007.04.16 02:13 am, it's safe to say it means 2008);
(4) estimated value for 2007 part is US$100 millions.

Here is my interpretation:
(1) ~670K HD DVD players for 2007 ($100 millions out of 300)
(2) US$150/player (cost), $199 Wal mart retail ?

2nd from last paragraph in UDN report is a bit confusing/contradictory, I am not going to touch that.

[jmpage2]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

I'm back to undecided. There is absolutely no mention anywhere that TDK had anything to do with 51GB HD-DVD, other than that obscure German website.

Once again - I believe the story is about HD-DVD, but I can't fathom TDK's involvement. And Imation's recent purchase of TDK's media storage business has no relation to their R&D.

TDK has created 100 GB Blu-Ray discs, has prototypes for 200 GB Blu-Ray discs. They will own the market on Blu-Ray for years to come. It wouldn't make any business sense to help Toshiba's HD-DVD format.

TDK is in business to sell media. Why wouldn't they want to sell as much media as possible?

If Blu-Ray's long term outlook is not good it makes perfect sense for TDK a MEDIA COMPANY to sell whatever Media has the greatest chance of being viable for the next several years.

[GamerGirl]

Originally Posted by eddy_winds

Walmart Throws the SS:HD DVD a Lifeline
Cheap HD DVD Players
But will they Sell
LOL

LOL I'm sure they will. Have you seen how many cheap DVD players Wal-Mart sells every year? LOL LOL

[wnorris]

Originally Posted by Kosty

Slow down wmorris!

Let's avoid blue on blue firefights here.

roma_victor said on a whole, the press release is talking about HD DVD players.

Hold your fire, he's agreeing with you.

Sorry, I just see so many people trying to spin this, I'm starting to see everything as a misinformation post...

[leibniz]

Originally Posted by jmpage2

TDK is in business to sell media. Why wouldn't they want to sell as much media as possible?

If Blu-Ray's long term outlook is not good it makes perfect sense for TDK a MEDIA COMPANY to sell whatever Media has the greatest chance of being viable for the next several years.

that's a valid end-game argument, but what SimpleTheater (and I) are asking for is corroboration that TDK is *already* working to produce HD DVD technology. They're quite vocal about supporting and creating Blu-ray technology. If they are just as involved in HD DVD technology, I'm baffled as to why they're noticeably silent on the matter.

EDIT: once again, to clarify, i'm an HD DVD supporter - but the skeptic in me can't dismiss the TDK angle.

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

I'm back to undecided. There is absolutely no mention anywhere that TDK had anything to do with 51GB HD-DVD, other than that obscure German website.

Once again - I believe the story is about HD-DVD, but I can't fathom TDK's involvement. And Imation's recent purchase of TDK's media storage business has no relation to their R&D.

TDK has created 100 GB Blu-Ray discs, has prototypes for 200 GB Blu-Ray discs. They will own the market on Blu-Ray for years to come. It wouldn't make any business sense to help Toshiba's HD-DVD format.

Heise.de is most definitely not just an "obscure German website". That said, it's always possible they could be wrong.

As for 100GB and 200GB Blu-ray discs, I doubt they will ever see the light of day.

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by MASrules

Is it possible that these players will be the Chinese HD-DVD spec and sold in Chinese Wal-marts only?

If HD-DVD becomes the dominant format, This Blu supporter will buy in, but it sure as hell won't be a POS chinese player.

This could be as important as the HD-DVD fanatics are presenting it, but at best it just means parity between the formats instead of a dominant Blu. Prolonging the format war and making it more likely neither format wins out.

This is heartbreaking for those of us who crave a single format.

Not if you thought HD DVD was the better choice for that dominant format.

First format to $199 players wins* *70% market share.

[SimpleTheater]

Originally Posted by jmpage2

TDK is in business to sell media. Why wouldn't they want to sell as much media as possible?

If Blu-Ray's long term outlook is not good it makes perfect sense for TDK a MEDIA COMPANY to sell whatever Media has the greatest chance of being viable for the next several years.

If Blu-Ray's long term outlook is not good, then you are right, it does make sense. But that's not the case right now. It would be similar to Microsoft games division making games for the PS3 or Sony Pictures releasing movies on HD-DVD.

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by Steverhcp02

Hey guys, BD supporter here that just saw this news.

This can be nothing but good news for HD DVD if true. When we get some solid facts on release and price we can really start some discussion.

I've noticed many people posting on how this spells the end of the format war. While no one knows, id like to offer up my mindset on how this is not as big a deal as some are making it out to be.

First, a solid brand name Toshiba model can be purchased for $300 along with 5 free movies, this has been available since March 1 i think. I dont see the significance in an off brand player retailing for $299 (our only reports not based on guesswork) or even $199 in 6 or 7 months

To me, i think many here are over reacting about price points, as a Toshiba Brand for $300 with 5 free HD DVD's is a better deal for quality of player and price wise.

I think many people overestimate the usage of these players. People are going to buy HD DVD players to play HD DVD movies, not for upscaling now and HD DVD use later. My logic here is the combo format not increasing sales for future HD DVD use as was once thought. People have overestimated people purchasing these things for later use....why would someone buy an HD DVD player to not use it for HD DVD movies?

This, then leads into my first point that if youre going to spend $199 on an HD DVD player youre going to buy 2 or 3 movies to go with it. This only makes the Toshiba brand model with free movies look more respectable.

Im sure ill be flamed and told that im spinning, but i truly dont see the logic of this price point when there are very similar if not better prices on the market right now.....hopefully this will raise some discussion in the midst of the "war over" nonsense.

No flaming.

But the point is at $199 (or less) Wal-Mart will sell this as an alternative to an new DVD player to use with your new HDTV, or as an upconverting DVD that also sells DVDs. As an impulse buy, the price point makes the sale. A seriousl buyer can compare and buy a Tohiba HD A2 wth moves as an alternative.

That's what I would recommend , a $299 Toshiba with free movies. But Wal-Mart is king at selling low priced CE items.

This is a big deal.

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by zglass2

And the Chinese player will have better QC than Toshiba (which has none).

With my HD XA2, I would beg to differ.

Maybe if you actually owned a Toshiba player????

[Ayreon]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

If Blu-Ray's long term outlook is not good, then you are right, it does make sense. But that's not the case right now. It would be similar to Microsoft games division making games for the PS3 or Sony Pictures releasing movies on HD-DVD.

Or Microsoft making software for Apple computers...

[A.VOID]

Originally Posted by eddy_winds

Walmart Throws the SS:HD DVD a Lifeline
Cheap HD DVD Players
But will they Sell
LOL

You mean like how PS3 sells? MWAHAHA! Those are collecting dust now that the release is long over.

[wei2008]

Originally Posted by luvxf

My first language is Chinese, and I think some information is misunderstood. If you take a look at the text under the photo, it clearly says that Wal-Mart placed order of 2 million units which are totally worth of 300 million US dollars.

What I understand is the 2 million order will not be fulfilled by the end of 2007, and the finished units by that time will make Fuh Yuan 100 million dollars.

------------
sorry I put a wrong link, here is the right one with the photo fro OP:

It says "總金額高達" and based on other information in the first link, it should be translated as "total worth up to".

[SimpleTheater]

Originally Posted by Ayreon

Or Microsoft making software for Apple computers...

Bad analogy. Microsoft doesn't care about hardware. If Apple had 90% market share they'd go after that market.

[GamerGirl]

Also to back up what Kosty said, over 90% of Blu-Ray hardware sales come from the PlayStation 3. There's been plenty of great analysis about this by sites like Arstechnica and others, and they've mentioned that game console adoption tends to be much faster than most other electronics. In other words, if it wasn't for the PS3, the Blu-Ray camp wouldn't have anywhere near the advantage they currently enjoy. Standalone HD-DVD player sales outnumber standalone BR player sales by approximately 5-to-1.

So, if Wal-Mart floods the market with extremely cheap, even *halfway* reliable HD-DVD players, it will most likely offset the edge PS3s give to the Blu-Ray camp. Two million+ $199-$299 (or cheaper) HD-DVD players available from the world's largest retailer versus a $599 PS3... Yeah, I know which one I'll be buying for movie watching.

And once the studios see that, they won't want to lose out on such a big revenue stream... You'll see more HD-DVD discs released, more big titles, more support.

Whatever the case, if I were Blu-Ray, I'd be at least *slightly* concerned...

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by jmpage2

Go find a chart that shows average DVD player price and adoption rate and you will see why HD-DVD peeps are celebrating.

What does BD have to compete with a sub $200 HD player? HD will be seen as a "value add" for those already buying an upscaling DVD player, whereas BD is priced into an entirely different market segment.

This is like a giant mule kick in the nuts to the BR camp. BDA knows they can't match this price, probably not till the end of 2008.

This is like a giant mule kick in the nuts to the BR camp.

Best analogy ever.

I was visualizing Andy Parsons, from Pioneer, mouthpiece of the BDA, walking by the back of the mule train......

[leibniz]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

Bad analogy. Microsoft doesn't care about hardware. If Apple had 90% market share they'd go after that market.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/office/ ??

[Bull1962]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zglass2
And the Chinese player will have better QC than Toshiba (which has none).

I think they are executed right on the assembly line if they screw it up, Naw..maybe 20 lashes or 10 years hard labor at the BD factory.

[roma_victor]

Originally Posted by wnorris

Sorry, I just see so many people trying to spin this, I'm starting to see everything as a misinformation post...

No problem. Believe me, I would love Walmart to flood the market with 2 million cheap Chinese HD DVD players; it would validate the thread I started a while back entitled "IMO Cheap Chinese HD DVD players = the cavalry for HD DVD"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=chinese

[wnorris]

FYI:

Here is some more capacity info from Chinese DVD player manufacturers.

Shenzhen GIEC: Annual Output 3 million DVD players
Tak Champ: 15 automated lines; 150,000 units per month
Alllike : 18 lines; 60,000 DVD + 60,000 component systems (whatever that means)
Dahua: 10 lines; 80,000 units per month
Shenzen Chaolitong: Annual Output 3 million units
Shenbang: 20 lines, 100,000 units per month

And the list goes on...

I don't know the capacity of this new plant, but lets say it is 80k per month (the lowest number I could find). Let's say they start production in May. It would only yield 640k units by the end of the year. However, the larger outfits do 250k per month, which means 8 months to complete a 2 million unit order. May-Dec = 8 months. So completing the order this year is entirely possible. I also don't think they will warehouse 250k players, or even 80k players, which means shipments should start rolling out to the US soon.

The celebration was an openeing ceremony, and help on the 15th. So my guess would be that baby is already cranking out the Wal-Mart HD-DVD players. So expect a boatload on the way to the US by the end of this month.

When they arrive, we will see what the price is...

[wnorris]

Originally Posted by leibniz

that's a valid end-game argument, but what SimpleTheater (and I) are asking for is corroboration that TDK is *already* working to produce HD DVD technology. They're quite vocal about supporting and creating Blu-ray technology. If they are just as involved in HD DVD technology, I'm baffled as to why they're noticeably silent on the matter.

EDIT: once again, to clarify, i'm an HD DVD supporter - but the skeptic in me can't dismiss the TDK angle.

It's called a non-disclosure agreement...

[SimpleTheater]

Originally Posted by leibniz

http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/office/ ??

I don't get it. I know Microsoft makes products for Apple. They only care about selling software. If somehow Apple challenged their market dominance, they'd stop making Office for the Mac, but right now they need to keep Apple alive to keep the DOJ off their back. As long as their is some competition, there is no monopoly.

[wei2008]

Originally Posted by Wesley5

Let's not get over board with 'petty arguments' here. The reports are very clear it's about (this is a 1st person reading, not 2nd//3rd hand translation):
(1) blue light (laser if you prefer) HD DVD;
(2) the size of the order (2 millions blue light HD DVD players, not core (藍光HD-DVD播放機));
(3) deadline for delivery (before the end of next year, since report was published on 2007.04.16 02:13 am, it's safe to say it means 2008);
(4) estimated value for 2007 part is US$100 millions.

Here is my interpretation:
(1) ~670K HD DVD players for 2007 ($100 millions out of 300)
(2) US$150/player (cost), $199 Wal mart retail ?

2nd from last paragraph in UDN report is a bit confusing/contradictory, I am not going to touch that.

Wesley,

In the ettoday link (the first link), it says the order-on-hand from Wal-Mart is 200 million, which means production worth (direct translation) can be $100 million by the end of year. It goes on to say that after adding the estimates for next year, the production worth can reach $300 million.

This gives me the impression that Fuh Yuan will deliver its players in incremental batches, and if they do a good job, there can be more orders from Wal-Mart. Each delivery will have to meet all the standards set by DVD Forum and Wal-Mart, probably because next delivery.

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by Bob Meridian

http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/20/t...er-on-the-way/
http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/20/...yer-on-the-way/

Sorry Bob.

Engadgets source just backtracked and confirmed its HD DVD players.

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news...r+Walmart.html

According to the Chinese medias, Taiwan based company Fuh Yuan in cooperation with TDK, should produce 2 millions HD DVD players for Walmart, representing a deal of around 100 million dollars.

--- Sorry for the previous News but we were lost in the transaltion

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by wei2008

I am a native Chinese speaker. I translated major points in those two links.

It is pretty clear to me that they were talking about HD-DVD. In the last paragraph, the major advantages of HD-DVD were mentioned, i.e. can take advantage of current DVD manufacturing equipments, low cost from DVD to HD-DVD, better protection from scratch and dirt, etc. I believe all these are compared with the format You Know Which.

The first batch, 2mil players could be delivered by the end of 2007 for $100 million, based on info from the first link. There could be more subsequent orders for 2008, totaling up to $300 million by the end of 2008, based on info from the second link (not Fuh Yuan's website).

All these information were released as part of campaign to promote Fuh Yuan's impending IPO for next March. It is from the Chairman of the Board of Fuh Yuan. He is the guy in the picture. He has to speak the truth to make sure his stock price flies sky high.

I'm getting info now from some people in the industry from the hardware side.

Its HD DVD folks. No doubt.

[SimpleTheater]

Originally Posted by wnorris

It's called a non-disclosure agreement...

We all know what a non-disclosure agreement is.

Think about this conversation for a minute:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK Employee: "Sir, we need to help this Chinese company make HD-DVD players."

TDK Manager: "We just invested over $20 million dominating Blu-Ray production. We own numerous patents for Blu-Ray. If Blu-Ray is successful, we will rake in huge amounts of profit. This format war is in its infancy, plus we're working on Blu-Ray discs for the year 2010 and beyond. HD-DVD discs are easy to master and create at a low cost. If HD-DVD wins, we'll have more competition than you can shake a stick at. So explain why we want to help HD-DVD?"

TDK Employee: "Because I thought we were in the business to sell storage media."

TDK Manager: "We're in the business to make money."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At this point in time, it just doesn't make sense for TDK to support HD-DVD.

[leibniz]

Originally Posted by wnorris

It's called a non-disclosure agreement...

i'd love to agree with you, but it's too convenient of an argument. you've said there were multiple CES press releases which detailed TDK's involvement with HD DVD... why the silence and non-disclosure if it is common knowledge - especially in context of their vocal nature with regard to Blu-ray?

i'm not saying it isn't the case - only that i'd like to see more evidence of the link.