Fuh Yuan to make 2M HD-DVD players for Walmart; Wal-Mart denies rumor

[roma_victor]

Originally Posted by GamerGirl

Also to back up what Kosty said, over 90% of Blu-Ray hardware sales come from the PlayStation 3. There's been plenty of great analysis about this by sites like Arstechnica and others, and they've mentioned that game console adoption tends to be much faster than most other electronics. In other words, if it wasn't for the PS3, the Blu-Ray camp wouldn't have anywhere near the advantage they currently enjoy. Standalone HD-DVD player sales outnumber standalone BR player sales by approximately 5-to-1.

Good point. Further, if Walmart does manage to unleash 2 million cheap HD DVD players soon, HD DVD's installed base will significantly increase even as the PS3's sales are significantly slowly down.
According to the Media Crate (for Japan) and NPD (for North America) reports, PS3 sales for the week of 4/15 are some 14,000 in Japan and some 130,000 in North America for the month of March - both all time lows.

For example, lots of pulling of hair/gnashing of teeth here:
http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=1391

[Ayreon]

Here's an article about the PS3 and XBox 360 from ettoday.com

http://www.ettoday.com/2006/11/02/91-2010704.htm

Notice you can see "Blu-ray" all throughout the article. That's its proper brand name, so that's what they're using when talking about it. All today's article has is a phrase meaning "blue light".

[wbassett]

Wow this is an active thread.

My thoughts... First Fuh Yuan needs to put a different name on the player. That isn't meant as anything disrectful, names can kill a product. People won't know this name and the first thought will be it is cheap (cost) because it is cheap (quality) even if it's not. Radio Shack actually had some 'decent' items (not great, but not total trash either) and the 'Realistic' brand name was a death tag.

The $299 price... that can't be right. If it is I can't see these selling, not when Toshiba is dropping their prices and by the time these hit the market Toshiba HD DVD players will be less than that. If it is a BD player, so be it, that could be a valid price then.

As far as 'J6P', I don't know why but I find that term somewhat derogitory and prefer 'the common person that isn't an audio/videophile'. Anyway, I was in Best Buy the other week and a couple was buying a 720p HDTV. They were pretty ordinary people if you ask me. Price was more the concern than the resolution, in fact they didn't seem to care what the resultion was, just the size of the set and the price. They were also getting an HD DVD player too. If these are HD DVD players, and they are available under $200 for Black Friday they will sell out.

I like HD DVD, most of the movies I like are in that format. My brother has an HD DVD player so we are both very familiar with how it performs. I bought a PS3 as a BD to check it out, and I do like it. I am getting an HD DVD player though too, so I'm pretty format neutral.

Now, with that said... I was surprised at myself that I haven't run out and bought a ton of HD DVDs or BD movies yet. I watch as many movies upstairs on the HDTV set in our bedroom as I do down stairs on the 1080p SXRD, but I don't have a high def player upstairs. I realized very quickly that I either had to double dip and buy the SDVD version and the BD version, or get the combo disc HD DVD version.

What this means to me is I probably WILL have an HD DVD player in my bedroom as well as one down stairs as part of my Home Theater. It doesn't matter who buys these players, whether it's someone that is buying one as their very first player, or someone that is getting a second player for their bedroom or another living room. That to me is pretty significant when people start buying more than one unit of a particular format. It means it has gained acceptance as a household item, just like people have more than one regular SDVD player in their house.

[Namnuta]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

We all know what a non-disclosure agreement is.

Think about this conversation for a minute:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK Employee: "Sir, we need to help this Chinese company make HD-DVD players."

TDK Manager: "We just invested over $20 million dominating Blu-Ray production. We own numerous patents for Blu-Ray. If Blu-Ray is successful, we will rake in huge amounts of profit. This format war is in its infancy, plus we're working on Blu-Ray discs for the year 2010 and beyond. HD-DVD discs are easy to master and create at a low cost. If HD-DVD wins, we'll have more competition than you can shake a stick at. So explain why we want to help HD-DVD?"

TDK Employee: "Because I thought we were in the business to sell storage media."

TDK Manager: "We're in the business to make money."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At this point in time, it just doesn't make sense for TDK to support HD-DVD.

??? I dont see after reading this conversation writen by you, you could come to that conculsion.

TDK Manager: "We're in the business to make money."

So play both side, double dip; and if either side wins, we still win. It doesnt make any sence for TDK not to play both sides.

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by roma_victor

At this point, I don't think this is a translation issue but rather an issue of what the writer of the article/release actually intended by the use of the phrase "lan guang HD DVD" - please see my previous post (#287?)

as I indicated before,
"lan" means blue and "guang" literally means beam or ray of light, so of course it could mean blu ray specifically
however, I have also seen the phrase "lan guang" used generically to mean blue laser/light/diode, versus the red laser dvds.

In a nutshell - I don't think further translations will give us much more insight; what we need is a confirmation whether the deal is specifically for HD DVD or blu ray (I have asked for confirmation in the insider's thread but have not received a response yet); fwiw I believe it's more likely to mean HD DVD

I am getting some specific information now from industry folks confirming some things to me.

TDK is supplying the laser head (Toshiba) and Fuhyaun is making the loader.

The SoC decoder chip is coming from Broadcom.

Mass production is starting in August. (edit) Initial delivery dates will be in 2007.

Walmart has surveyed and qualified the China Great Wall manufacturing facility as a part of their review process.

[Damed]

^^ then without a doubt, these ARE HD-DVD players.

[leibniz]

Originally Posted by Kosty

I am getting some specific information now from industry folks confrming some things to me.

TDK is supplying the laser head (Toshiba) and Fuhyaun is making the loader.

The SoC decoder chip is coming from Broadcom.

Mass production is starting in August. Delivery dates will be in 2007.

Walmart has surveyed and qualified the China Great Wall manufacturing facility as a part of their review process.

good update, kosty. let us know if you hear more, and i'm sure everyone will be anxious for an official english announcement!

[SimpleTheater]

Originally Posted by Namnuta

??? I dont see after reading this conversation writen by you, you could come to that conculsion.

TDK Manager: "We're in the business to make money."

So play both side, double dip; and if either side wins, we still win. It doesnt make any sence for TDK not to play both sides.

There are significant barriers to entry on the Blu-Ray disc manufacturing front. At this point in time, it makes zero business sense to lend a hand to a low barrier to entry competitor.

I don't know any other way to explain it, but I will say this - I'll bet anyone a high def disc of your choice that if TDK is involved with HD-DVD at this point in time. Don't forget, if they are NOT involved, you're buying me one.

[wnorris]

Originally Posted by Namnuta

??? I dont see after reading this conversation writen by you, you could come to that conculsion.

TDK Manager: "We're in the business to make money."

So play both side, double dip; and if either side wins, we still win. It doesnt make any sence for TDK not to play both sides.

I agree. The thought process goes something like this.

Let's make Blu-ray, we own patents and will make money.

Let's make a 17/34/51GB HD-DVD for Toshiba. We will sell it to them and make money there too.

If Blu-ray wins, we still make money of BD discs. If HD-DVD wins, we make money off HD-DVD.

If we help to promote a dual format stalement we make money from both revenue streams.

Hey, the only way we can loose is if both formats die off!

[Kosty]

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy

Microsoft press blurb from January 2007

Microsoft and Broadcom Corp. announced a joint effort to support a hardware and software reference design for more cost-efficient HD DVD playback. The new platform uses Microsoft Windows CE 6.0 and Broadcom’s BCM7440 system-on-chip solution, allowing consumer electronics manufacturers, original design manufacturers and systems integrators to more easily and affordably deliver HD DVD playback. Several of the more innovative consumer electronics companies plan to use this new hardware and software platform to speed the production of HD DVD players, including Lite-On IT Corp., one of the most experienced systems integrators backing high-volume consumer electronics manufacturers, and Zhenjiang Jiangkui Group Co. Ltd./ED Digital, one of the largest, high-volume manufacturers of DVD players in China.

IIRC, the Broadcom SoC can be used for Blu-ray as well, but there were no announcements AFAIK that said that a similar reference design was available on the Blu-ray side.

This HD DVD player for Wal-Mart is based on a broadcomm decoder chip.

Probably its the design talked about in that press release.

Big day for HD DVD.

[SimpleTheater]

Originally Posted by Kosty

TDK is supplying the laser head (Toshiba) and Fuhyaun is making the loader.

This makes much more sense. TDK is not involved in the HD-DVD media - which has just been sold to Imation.

[roma_victor]

Originally Posted by Kosty

I am getting some specific information now from industry folks confrming some things to me.

TDK is supplying the laser head (Toshiba) and Fuhyaun is making the loader.

The SoC decoder chip is coming from Broadcom.

Mass production is starting in August. Delivery dates will be in 2007.

Walmart has surveyed and qualified the China Great Wall manufacturing facility as a part of their review process.

This phrase has become so overused that it's a bad cliche now but I have no hesitation in saying that:

THIS IS GREAT NEWS FOR HD DVD!!!

thxs Kosty for the information!

[anttimonty]

Originally Posted by Ayreon

Or Microsoft making software for Apple computers...

Actually they are, if you haven't noticed current Apple computers are perfectly capable of running windows.

[SimpleTheater]

Originally Posted by wnorris

If Blu-ray wins, we still make money of BD discs. If HD-DVD wins, we make money off HD-DVD.

Not true. If HD-DVD wins, TDK will have a small piece of the pie, but if Blu-Ray wins they have a giant piece.

[leibniz]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

There are significant barriers to entry on the Blu-Ray disc manufacturing front. At this point in time, it makes zero business sense to lend a hand to a low barrier to entry competitor.

I don't know any other way to explain it, but I will say this - I'll bet anyone a high def disc of your choice that if TDK is involved with HD-DVD at this point in time. Don't forget, if they are NOT involved, you're buying me one.

i generally agree it doesn't make a lot of sense on a "level playfield." i do think, however, that logic easily breaks down if a vendor like walmart walks up to the table and orders 2million+ players - especially if the order is related to laser heads (as kosty mentions).

regardless of investment in BD tech, they'd be silly to leave that sort of vacuum open to the next person who could fill the order.

[SimpleTheater]

Imation Corp. (and TDK announced today that they have reached a definitive agreement under which Imation will acquire TDK brand world wide recording media business and use of the TDK brand name for recording media products, for $300 million in a combination of Imation common stock and cash with potential for payment of up to an additional $70 million based on future financial performance of the acquired business. TDK will retain its R&D, manufacturing and OEM business.
SOURCE

I know this has already been spoken about, but TDK Media is now part of Imation (which is a 3M company) . TDK-Imation will now solely support Blu-Ray for the time being, where TDK-Manufacturing will make products.

[Jerry Curl]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

I don't get it. I know Microsoft makes products for Apple. They only care about selling software.

The Xbox, Xbox 360, and the Zune are not hardware?

[GamerGirl]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

Imation Corp. (and TDK announced today that they have reached a definitive agreement under which Imation will acquire TDK brand world wide recording media business and use of the TDK brand name for recording media products, for $300 million in a combination of Imation common stock and cash with potential for payment of up to an additional $70 million based on future financial performance of the acquired business. TDK will retain its R&D, manufacturing and OEM business.
SOURCE

I know this has already been spoken about, but TDK Media is now part of Imation (which is a 3M company) . TDK-Imation will now solely support Blu-Ray for the time being, where TDK-Manufacturing will make products.

Please read that a little more carefully. Nowhere in that article does it say "TDK-Imation will now solely support Blu-Ray." All it says is that TDK will continue R&D for Blu-Ray, which is its existing process. That doesn't mean *TDK-Imation* itself won't produce HD-DVDs, and considering the fact Imation produces discs on both formats, I don't see why they'd drop it.

[Mocs123]

Imagine Sony folding by CES 2008! (I can dream can't I?)

Sony will still be claiming victory in 2015 when they are the only one making blu-ray hardware or software! You have to hand it to Sony, they hang on to thier proprietary formats.

[uscboy]

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy

With a potential investment of $300 million in HD DVD, and no press releases for Wal-Mart deals on the Blu-ray side, it seems that they are HD DVD-only at this time... unless you somehow think they're going to do $100 million for the first batch for HD DVD and do another $100 million for Blu-ray after that. That seems rather strange to me.

Plus, if they drop $100 million on HD DVD they get 2 million units. If they drop
that kind of money on a Blu-Ray effort that gets them what... 15 or 16 players?

[BuGsArEtAsTy]

Originally Posted by Kosty

I'm getting info now from some people in the industry from the hardware side.

Its HD DVD folks. No doubt.

Originally Posted by Kosty

I am getting some specific information now from industry folks confirming some things to me.

TDK is supplying the laser head (Toshiba) and Fuhyaun is making the loader.

The SoC decoder chip is coming from Broadcom.

Mass production is starting in August. (edit) Initial delivery dates will be in 2007.

Walmart has surveyed and qualified the China Great Wall manufacturing facility as a part of their review process.

Kosty, what type of insider sources are you getting this from? Do you work in the industry as well?

And what do you mean by the "(Toshiba)"?

Any comments on pricing?

I guess if all goes well, we can expect to see these in stores by fall. This time frame makes perfect sense.

Our predictions in January of a sub $200 Chinese player coming in 2007 seem to be well-founded.

[wnorris]

Originally Posted by SimpleTheater

There are significant barriers to entry on the Blu-Ray disc manufacturing front. At this point in time, it makes zero business sense to lend a hand to a low barrier to entry competitor.

I don't know any other way to explain it, but I will say this - I'll bet anyone a high def disc of your choice that if TDK is involved with HD-DVD at this point in time. Don't forget, if they are NOT involved, you're buying me one.

I'll take that bet if you are still willing to back it up. We just need to clarify the terms of settling the bet (I'm not buying a player and taking it apart to win a disc) and its on.

I think what you fail to realize that TDK doesn't just make discs. They make laser assemblies, power supplies, transformers, rubber magnets, HDD magnetic heads, HDMI filters, inverters, etc. If they supply any of these for a HD-DVD player, then they are involved in HD-DVD.

[SyHD]

Originally Posted by Kosty

This HD DVD player for Wal-Mart is based on a broadcomm decoder chip.

Probably its the design talked about in that press release.

Big day for HD DVD.

Sorry but the Broadcomm chipset could be use in either HD DVD or Blu-ray players. Microsoft announced they were in partnership with Broadcomm to produce a solution for HD DVD. It does not mean Sony or any other BDA company can't or already have do the same with Broadcomm chipsets.

[leibniz]

Originally Posted by GamerGirl

Please read that a little more carefully. Nowhere in that article does it say "TDK-Imation will now solely support Blu-Ray." All it says is that TDK will continue R&D for Blu-Ray, which is its existing process. That doesn't mean *TDK-Imation* itself won't produce HD-DVDs, and considering the fact Imation produces discs on both formats, I don't see why they'd drop it.

you're absolutely correct that it doesn't specify "sole" support for Blu-ray. whether imation pursuades them remains to be seen - i tend to see simpletheater's logic in that case. hopefully, they'll move.

i think that what simpletheater and i mostly objected to was the uncorroborated claims that TDK *already* supports HD DVD technology, and that they developed all the new HD discs (EDIT: not that i specifically object to the claim, but just that the skeptic in me wants to see more evidence substantiating it).

in any case, this issue appears now to perhaps be a red herring - if kosty's information is correct (TDK is providing the laser heads), then the TDK mention in the press release is much less suspect.

great news for HD DVD!

[GamerGirl]

Originally Posted by SyHD

Sorry but the Broadcomm chipset could be use in either HD DVD or Blu-ray players. Microsoft announced they were in partnership with Broadcomm to produce a solution for HD DVD. It does not mean Sony or any other BDA company can't or already have do the same with Broadcomm chipsets.

True. But then again, Wal-Mart didn't order 2 million+ units of Blu-Ray players, which is what this thread's about.

[Damed]

Originally Posted by SyHD

Sorry but the Broadcomm chipset could be use in either HD DVD or Blu-ray players. Microsoft announced they were in partnership with Broadcomm to produce a solution for HD DVD. It does not mean Sony or any other BDA company can't or already have do the same with Broadcomm chipsets.

If a BDA company had that big of an agreement with Broadcomm, there would have been press releases or info about it a lot sooner than this. While I agree, it is *possible*, it is VERY, VERY unlikely. It's even more unlikely that Toshiba would be involved at all. It would be like Sony making parts for HD-DVD players.

[luvxf]

Just a thought. Could it be a Dual Player, which is Blu-ray HD DVD Player? That will justify the price of $299 compared to Toshiba's. Also, Wal-Mart won't have to choose sides.

[GamerGirl]

Originally Posted by leibniz

you're absolutely correct that it doesn't specify "sole" support for Blu-ray. whether imation pursuades them remains to be seen - i tend to see simpletheater's logic in that case. hopefully, they'll move.

i think that what simpletheater and i mostly objected to was the uncorroborated claims that TDK *already* supports HD DVD technology, and that they developed all the new HD discs (EDIT: not that i specifically object to the claim, but just that the skeptic in me wants to see more evidence substantiating it).

in any case, this issue appears now to perhaps be a red herring - if kosty's information is correct (TDK is providing the laser heads), then the TDK mention in the press release is much less suspect.

great news for HD DVD!

I know where you and ST were coming from. I was just pointing out that saying TDK-Imation now solely supported Blu-Ray was incorrect, no matter which way you look at it. Imation's not just going to drop its production/support of HD-DVD media because they acquired TDK.

But it is correct that people were looking at the wrong aspect of their business... It's not the media TDK's involved with — it's a specific component.

[Damed]

Originally Posted by luvxf

Just a thought. Could it be a Dual Player, which is Blu-ray HD DVD Player? That will justify the price of $299 compared to Toshiba's. Also, Wal-Mart won't have to choose sides.

I can't see them being able to afford the licensing and lines for both sides, and still make a player that cheap. I know it's China, but that's still way too low for a hybrid player at this point.

[SamwisetheBrave]

Originally Posted by luvxf

Just a thought. Could it be a Dual Player, which is Blu-ray HD DVD Player? That will justify the price of $299 compared to Toshiba's. Also, Wal-Mart won't have to choose sides.

They're NOT choosing sides.....

....... They're DEFINING the winning side.