TiVo Series 3 - "Official" Thread

[Paul Simoneau]

Originally Posted by HD_Dude

Hi again...

Hey, sorry to jump in the conversation midway, but I have read and read and can't seem to find the answer:

Last time I checked, eSata was not 'turned on' for the S3. Has that changed?

Can I buy an eSata hard drive from any local store, take it home and hook it up to the S3 and immediately have more recording space?

Or do I need a special one, like from Weaknees?

Or do I need do do some procedure to have the S3 recognize it?

And will my two cablecards in the S3 complicate any of this?

Thanks

Some folks have discovered a very simple method about how to connect an eSATA drive to their S3 and make it work. There has been no positive/negative acknowledgement of this from TiVo, which sorta fits their past behavior concerning such "underground" user activity. So, while it's not "officially" turned on, a good number of people have successfully connected eSATA drives to their S3.

Yes, you can hook up any number of eSATA drives to your S3 and increase your storage space. It does not need to be a "special" one. The S3 will format the drive when it recognizes that a new drive has been connected to it.

Basically, all you have to do is reboot the S3 and hold the pause button on the remote. At a particular point in time during the boot sequence, a light on the front of the S3 will change colors. At that time, you enter '6' and '2' on the remote. This instructs the S3 to look for the external drive. After that, the S3 takes over, formats the drive, and adds its space to your overall storage capacity. Very simple.

It makes no difference if you have CableCARDs or not.

[HD_Dude]

Thank you both very much...very helpful!

[gwsat]

Originally Posted by keenan

All the questions and answers are at the following link, and yes, it's quick and easy to do and works like a charm.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=350510
Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion - TiVo Community & Store

I agree that the FAQ and thread to which keenan posted a link is outstanding. I have not yet bought an eSATA drive for my S3 but I am satisfied that the technology works and prices are not out of line. Note that while TiVo has not yet officially sanctioned the addition of eSATA drives, CableLabs has amended its licensing agreement to authorize them.

[HD_Dude]

One more question...

If I buy an eSata drive from Best Buy, will it come with the eSata cable I need?

Or should I be shopping for a particular cable as well? The instructions note it should be an eSata II > sata cable. Is that something that might be too 'hi-tech' for BestBuy to stock?

There's a MicroCenter within 30 minutes of my location...they'll have every cable in the world, I expect.

Thanks again...I appreciate the assist.

[moxie1617]

It depends which drive you buy.
Read the 1st post in the thread keenan linked you to for recommendations, issues etc. It's updated daily with input from all of the posts in the thread.

Most of the problems associated with failures of certain drives are suspected to be because of poor cables.

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by HD_Dude

One more question...

If I buy an eSata drive from Best Buy, will it come with the eSata cable I need?

Or should I be shopping for a particular cable as well? The instructions note it should be an eSata II > sata cable. Is that something that might be too 'hi-tech' for BestBuy to stock?

There's a MicroCenter within 30 minutes of my location...they'll have every cable in the world, I expect.

Thanks again...I appreciate the assist.

Not necessarily. Some come with just USB cables.

If you go to micro center they will hook you up with the proper equipment. I bought mine from them, a 500 gb Sata HD and an enclosure. It's the enclosure you got to look at to make sure it has the right cable. Mine came with everything and the whole thing cost me less then 200 bucks.

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by gwsat

Note that while TiVo has not yet officially sanctioned the addition of eSATA drives, CableLabs has amended its licensing agreement to authorize them.

I don't think the fact that TiVo hasn't given it's "blessing" on eSATA should hold anyone up. Again I point out to the fact that if you have an SA 8300 and you call your cable company and ask if you can use the eSATA they will say no. Of course we all know that's false.

[Paul Simoneau]

Originally Posted by hookbill

I don't think the fact that TiVo hasn't given it's "blessing" on eSATA should hold anyone up. Again I point out to the fact that if you have an SA 8300 and you call your cable company and ask if you can use the eSATA they will say no. Of course we all know that's false.

I agree, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that TiVo is forced by CableLabs to lock this activity down pronto with a software update.

I'm sure if it was up to TiVo, they'd let it fly just like all of the other user-instigated hacks and upgrades that have come along since Day 1.

However, since TiVo *must* conform to the CableLabs spec (which have admittedly been revised recently), even the slightest transgression would open them up to action from CableLabs.

Not trying to scare monger, just trying to illustrate one possible outcome.

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by Paul Simoneau

I agree, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that TiVo is forced by CableLabs to lock this activity down pronto with a software update.

I'm sure if it was up to TiVo, they'd let it fly just like all of the other user-instigated hacks and upgrades that have come along since Day 1.

However, since TiVo *must* conform to the CableLabs spec (which have admittedly been revised recently), even the slightest transgression would open them up to action from CableLabs.

Not trying to scare monger, just trying to illustrate one possible outcome.

Understand, but there is two things that I see in the above that I think I can explain.

The first point about cablelabs ordering a TiVo to shut it down is not that feasable. If you go to the thread on the TiVo boards you will see that the person who discovered the way to activate eSATA explains that it would take not only a great deal of money but time as well for TiVo to do this. It's just not that simple as sending out an order "esata=off" or anything like that. Second, calbelabs gave the ok for eSATA to become active and if you read on that (I know you want links but sorry, I don't have them...they are available at TiVo Forum do a search) you will see that there were no stipulations to exactly how this activity was to be opened.

There are some thoughts that a TiVo employee in fact leaked the info the moment cable labs gave the OK. I don't know if that is true, that may just be speculation.

I'm looking at my receipt of when I bought my eSATA and I bought it the day it was announced which was 5/5 (hey, sinco de mayo)! So I really don't think at this point it would benefit TiVo at all to do a shut down on this. More then likely it will be announced formally when they have their very own eSATA that they want to sell specifically for the S3. And at that time they may make it as simple as just plug and play. Although right now it's still pretty simple.

Is it out of the realm of possibility? No, you are correct but it would be one big pia for them to do it an I just don't see it happening.

[Paul Simoneau]

[quote=hookbill]The first point about cablelabs ordering a TiVo to shut it down is not that feasable. If you go to the thread on the TiVo boards you will see that the person who discovered the way to activate eSATA explains that it would take not only a great deal of money but time as well for TiVo to do this. It's just not that simple as sending out an order "esata=off" or anything like that.


I write (and occasionally ship!) code for a living, so I'm well aware of the intricacies of rolling out new builds to customers. From what I gather (but I could be wrong), the change could be as simple as taking out that jumpstart code from one of the files in the S3's Linux file system, since that's really the entry point to enabling this feature.

Originally Posted by hookbill

Second, CableLabs gave the ok for eSATA to become active and if you read on that (I know you want links but sorry, I don't have them...they are available at TiVo Forum do a search) you will see that there were no stipulations to exactly how this activity was to be opened.

Well, they didn't necessarily say "Screw it! Go ahead guys! eSATA anything you want!". CableLabs relaxed the restrictions concerning eSATA, but certainly didn't issue carte blanche. There are still pre-defined methods on how a licensee can use eSATA with their product.

Originally Posted by hookbill

There are some thoughts that a TiVo employee in fact leaked the info the moment cable labs gave the OK. I don't know if that is true, that may just be speculation.

That was my thought. Either that, or a beta tester.

Originally Posted by hookbill

I'm looking at my receipt of when I bought my eSATA and I bought it the day it was announced which was 5/5 (hey, sinco de mayo)! So I really don't think at this point it would benefit TiVo at all to do a shut down on this. More then likely it will be announced formally when they have their very own eSATA that they want to sell specifically for the S3. And at that time they may make it as simple as just plug and play. Although right now it's still pretty simple.

It's not to TiVo's benefit to lock this down. In fact, it would be detrimental to do so, since they'd be removing a desired feature from their product line. It's not completely up to TiVo to decide, though, if they wish to remain a CableLabs licensee. Gotta play by the rules to stay in the game...

I also don't think that TiVo rolling their own eSATA solution is a very good idea. It made sense to do it with the wireless adapter, since you've gotta deal with USB plug 'n play, and drivers, and encryption performance, and so on and so on...
You don't have any of those issues with the eSATA stuff. It's a very low level interaction between the S3 and the enclosure, where you don't have to deal with any of that crap.

It's debatable if they'd get killed on the pricing of their own eSATA solution. They probably get a nice price from the drive manufacturers, since they ship so many drives, but would probably take a bath on the enclosure itself since the quantities wouldn't be that high.

[bicker1]

Originally Posted by hookbill

Respectfully, I disagree. This is an an individual thing not necessarily how everyone feels.

We'll have to agree to disagree then -- if you don't have cup-holders in your car, you can BUY cup-holders that clip onto the door or attach to the dash. There is no way to get after-market MRV for a TiVo.

[gwsat]

I am not ready to say whether anybody is “right” or “wrong” if they say that the current absence of MRV capability on the S3 is a critical failing. But my personal reaction to this was “So What?” I have only one operating TiVo right now, my S3. Ninety percent of what I watch is in HD, so, even if I had an MRV capable S2, its inability to handle HD content from an S3 or any other source would make MRV meaningless to me. If TiVo ever gets things worked out with CableLabs to enable HD capable MRV on the S3 I’ll think about buying a second one. Until then, I simply don’t care.

[bierboy]

Originally Posted by gwsat

...my personal reaction to this was “So What?” I have only one operating TiVo right now, my S3. Ninety percent of what I watch is in HD, so, even if I had an MRV capable S2, its inability to handle HD content from an S3 or any other source would make MRV meaningless to me....

I've been sitting on the sidelines watching this conversation with much amusement. Then gwsat finally stated the obvious for most of us (or, at least, for me ).

[gwsat]

Originally Posted by bierboy

I've been sitting on the sidelines watching this conversation with much amusement. Then gswat finally stated the obvious for most of us (or, at least, for me ).

Thanks. I seem to have a talent for stating the obvious. Unfortunately, I have a lot more trouble with complex issues.

[Brian Miller]

Originally Posted by bierboy

I've been sitting on the sidelines watching this conversation with much amusement. Then gwsat finally stated the obvious for most of us (or, at least, for me ).

Yeah, I thought the same thing! I have a vague notion that someday I'll pick up the cost-reduced followon product to the S3 (the S4?) and put that in a bedroom, in which case I'd want to use MRV to pipe HD content between them. That'd be cool. Until then, MRV is not really very interesting on the S3, which is all about HD. How many people own TWO S3s, anyway?

[Nickff]

Comcast installed the cablecards today and almost immediately my s3 starting "randomly" restarting. Anyone else have (had) this issue? Should I just exchange it for a new one at Best Buy?

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by Nickff

Comcast installed the cablecards today and almost immediately my s3 starting "randomly" restarting. Anyone else have (had) this issue? Should I just exchange it for a new one at Best Buy?

Well documented. They probably moved one of your cards to the wrong socket. Suggestion. Switch cable card from one sot to another.. Then see what happens.

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by Nickff

Comcast installed the cablecards today and almost immediately my s3 starting "randomly" restarting. Anyone else have (had) this issue? Should I just exchange it for a new one at Best Buy?

No they did the isntall wrong. They can only accept one activation per card per instructions.

For Christ sake people make them follow the instructions!

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by Brian Miller

Yeah, I thought the same thing! I have a vague notion that someday I'll pick up the cost-reduced followon product to the S3 (the S4?) and put that in a bedroom, in which case I'd want to use MRV to pipe HD content between them. That'd be cool. Until then, MRV is not really very interesting on the S3, which is all about HD. How many people own TWO S3s, anyway?

Many but holds your pants on. Things will dhange

[Nickff]

Originally Posted by hookbill

No they did the isntall wrong. They can only accept one activation per card per instructions.

For Christ sake people make them follow the instructions!

They are supposed to come back out Wednesday. What should I tell them? I gave them the instructions when they first showed up but he didn't do anything with them. He just called in all the numbers checked all my channels and left. Everything worked when he left.

[Nickff]

Also, I get all my digital channels except HBO. They (Comcast) can't figure out why.

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by Nickff

Also, I get all my digital channels except HBO. They (Comcast) can't figure out why.

First, do you get a grey screen when you tune into that channel? If so the problem may be that the "pids" are not matching.

1. Tune to HBO
2. Go to Messages & Settings. Select Diagnostics
3. scroll down until you see PCR PIDS, Audio PIDS, and Video PIDS. If the PCR PIDS and Video PIDS do not match, there's your problem. Show it to the tech and explain that has to match and he needs to contact someone in head end to make it work.

I give much better info when it's not 2:00 and the morning and I haven't had several glasses of wine in me.

[Nickff]

Now my cards aren't activated. I hate Comcast.

[gwsat]

I don’t know how much of the CableCARD configuration problem that S3 owners suffer is the result of simple ignorance and how much the result of the cable companies’ sneaky institutional hostility to CableCARDs. Either way it’s frustrating. The silver lining in that black cloud is that, if you are patient, you will almost certainly get the cards properly configured – eventually.

[Nickff]

The cards are not 'paired' and it is ridiculous that I have to wait for a tech to come out (Wednesday) to have them paired. I should be able to call them and do it over the phone.

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by gwsat

I don’t know how much of the CableCARD configuration problem that S3 owners suffer is the result of simple ignorance and how much the result of the cable companies’ sneaky institutional hostility to CableCARDs. Either way it’s frustrating. The silver lining in that black cloud is that, if you are patient, you will almost certainly get the cards properly configured – eventually.

It's been my expereince that the "hostility" lies within the cells of the organizations. Think of the cable company as a group of terrorist. This should be easy for people to do. Within these groups some cells are less hostile then others.

OK, I apologize for that but to an extent it's true. It seems to me that people in headend really want to help. Certain groups of techs are truly willing to learn and help. But right there, within the same local company under a different boss you have the stubborn who refuse to budge and have no interest in helping, therefore you have the famous line "it's a problem with the S3." I recently got switched from one service area out of Macedonia to one in Concord and the last time a Macedonia tech came out he mentioned this to me. He said they do not strive for customer service like we do. First time the guy comes out from Concord I see exactly what he is talking about.

If you're fortunate you get a group of good people. If not you can be put through hell by a bunch of stubborn uninterested idiots.

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by Nickff

The cards are not 'paired' and it is ridiculous that I have to wait for a tech to come out (Wednesday) to have them paired. I should be able to call them and do it over the phone.

Boils down to what I said previously. The tech that came out was a moron. You have to have those cards married or else it won't work.

[Nickff]

Hook, thanks for the help and input.

Hopefully, I can get them to pair the cards together and that will fix the problem.

They want to run new lines to the TiVo and I know that is unnecessary.

[brian_esq]

Originally Posted by bicker1

Absolutely, and the frustration with getting the CableCards to work in the S3 was what caused me to return the one I purchased last year. By contrast, I don't have much frustration with the Motorola 3416 I'm current using.

Having said that, at the current price-point, the S3 is very attractive, I can imagine. Part of the calculation for me, that I haven't factored in until now, was that I'm currently paying $6.95 per month for a S2. Of course, the S2 doesn't receive encrypted channels -- only analog. The S3 could do that and also receive the 17 unencrypted local digital channels we have offered to us here. And all I'd pay extra is the $400 equipment price ($600-$200) plus the $299 for a three year service commitment. Give that I'm paying the $6.95 per month already, and intend to continue to do so until at least February 2009, about half the the three year service commitment is already covered by my current costs. And that's before I even factor in CableCards... I could just do without them and lose nothing compared to my S2, and gain the unencrypted digitals.

So what I'm personally looking at is a $550 extra outlay to switch from my S2 to an S3. That's close to my realm of reasonability... I'm just not sure which side of the line it comes down on.

Go to the buy dot com website. They have the TiVo Series 3 for $446.40 after mail-in rebate. Also, talk to TiVo. They told me they would transfer my $6.95 per month for a second box to a new Series 3.

[bicker1]

It is available through Amazon.com, for less than that. (Are we allowed to post prices in this forum?)