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A better grey screen

207K views 917 replies 144 participants last post by  CMRA 
#1 ·
My earliest experiments with gray screens left something to desire. Although blacks and shadow detail were enhanced, whites were crushed and colors were sometimes overly muted. The trade off had me rushing back to flat matte white.

Enter "Mist gray". Here is a color that seems to bring forth the best of white and gray. Blacks are enhanced, there's more shadow detail, colors remain vivid or sometimes just slightly muted, and whites don't have that dull dingy appearance. This may be a near perfect balance for my Z1. But, I have yet to tell you the best part. The 'screen door effect' typical of LCD projectors is hugely deminished. Or, put another way, I had no problem increasing from an 80" image to a 100" image. This particular color did a great job masking the SDE.

I'm still experimenting, so more details later.
UPDATE:

Two years and eight months later, S-I-L-V-E-R replaces good ol' Misty Evening. Still a wonderful one-can, one shot solution, however.


Go Here for shortcut:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7612239
 
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#877 ·
I will try to get some pictures out tonight. Been catching up on chores I neglected yesteday cause of the paint-a-thon.


The most difficult part yesterday was just being patient. You have to trust that the duster topcoats are being applied because you can't see it happening while you are laying it down. It's tempting to increase the amount of material being applied or slowing down the application but you have to be consistent in the approach. I honestly couldn't tell much of difference until I peeled back some of the border tape about midway through the job. It was encouraging to see the progress at that point.
 
#878 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by patweber /forum/post/0


I will try to get some pictures out tonight. Been catching up on chores I neglected yesteday cause of the paint-a-thon.


The most difficult part yesterday was just being patient. You have to trust that the duster topcoats are being applied because you can't see it happening while you are laying it down. It's tempting to increase the amount of material being applied or slowing down the application but you have to be consistent in the approach. I honestly couldn't tell much of difference until I peeled back some of the border tape about midway through the job. It was encouraging to see the progress at that point.

I can tell someone is well on his way to a wonderful S-I-L-V-E-R screen. Maybe that wagner will do the trick after all. Thanks for the feedback.
 
#879 ·
I have one gripe about this....



any AVS forum searches on S-I-L-V-E-R produve NOTHING
!!!! The search engine chokes on it....

 
#880 ·
Tiddler,


I would appreciate your not selectively and intentionaly ignoring my months of contribution and effort to keep S-I-L-V-E-R on the map when no one else, even CMRA bothered, and especially your seeming dismissal of my use of the Wagner CS specifically for this application several times over, each instance having been validated with specific photos, movies and text descriptions of application proceedure on threads you yourself have frequented.


Be advised that many times CMRA has personally told me he does not feel obligated to explore or pursue extensive Forum involvement or to convince people to do what is an application that is difficult to achieve, with standard HVLP gear, and that is why I specifically used the Wagner CS., THAT is why I felt both the need and obligation to contribute, as well as defend my right and relevence in doing so.


I am presently finishing a S-I-L-V-E-R application (104" screen in 6 hours)that will be something different from the norm, and represent exactly to "exploration" you have repeatedly asked for.


Complete with extensive photos of every coating applied in Macro and Long Views.

But they will be on a new thread entitiled "S-I-L-V-E-R revisited.....and revamped"


I would not want to risk CMRA's thread to unwarrented or frivolus complaints because I feel obliged, even obligated to contribute to a subject I know much about. I know how much it means to him, as his frequent and loving bumps would clearly indicate.
 
#881 ·
Well I'll not let the cat out before dark, but S-I-L-V-E-R has caveats as well as Kudos in it's repitore.


I'm addressing the negative things because I do not want them inserting themselves into equations where they are detrimental to both creation and performance.


At this conjecture, and after having been the only other advocate except CMRA until just recently, I'll take the liberty to alter, adjust, and adapt an otherwise problematical DIY application, and continue to further refine both it's properties and it's performance as I see fit.


Behr Faux Glaze is an old DIY standby, and the introduction of Behr SM as well as other varieties to it is also something that far predates the current version. The essential difference is that those who tried to utilize those components, individually or pared, more oft than not failed at achieving their goals. CMRA chose to revisit the Glaze/Silver application, and through guesswork and common sense, elected to risk error by using an exceedingly smaller amount of SM than any other had previously done. It turned out to be the right "error", but do-able only with a HVLP application, as CMRA's original postings make very clear.


I, on the other hand, from the start made a conspicuious effort to bring forth a viable alternative to expensive and hard to master HVLP gear, knowing that by doing so, it would afford more people the opportunity to achieve the exact same results that "I" produce. If one does not opt to use pressure fed HVLP gear, CMRA's approach is moot. Therein lies one reason S-I-L-V-E-R did not light any initial fires because CMRA did not really consider the ravening Hoards of DIY'ers could or would be able to, or even bother to follow suit. He's happy with his S-I-L-V-E-R, why bother to continue to make it into something the masses might be able to consider, even covet and acquire?


Why indeed. Like you yourself, I too think of others as much if not more than myself as far as DIY goes. The difference between us...and it would appear CMRA as well, is that I do not doubt or discount the ability of anybody, new or otherwise, to get in there and swing for the fence to achieve the best possible results, nor do I think that the effort or modest expense involved will deter someone who can obviously see the merit in approaching DIY with a fervor and with the highest expectations.


And if they falter or are unsure, they have support at hand.


I'm not seeking nor desirous of anybody's approval of my methods or actions. I've never slighted anyone, especially CMRA, but just as well, I don't give or accept undue credit either. I have my own baggage to carry, as well as my own unique contributions. But I do not ever fail to let people know where the basis of it all came from.


If all this prodding results in any significant effort by CMRA to contribute more than he has, all will benefit. As far a Patweber is concerned, visit this thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=834442

...and you'll discover just how and why he's where he is today.
 
#882 ·

Quote:
I have tried to convince CMRA to start a "S-I-L-V-E-R DIY Spray Painted Screen Solution" thread...

What I was referring to is the name itself... there are plenty of mentions in various threads of S-I-L-V-E-R, but the search engine WILL NOT FIND THEM... it's the dashes in the name that preclude a successful search...

 
#883 ·
Thank you, but consider that it was more the need to respond and advocate something that otherwise would not be so exposed, than any feelings that I was "self appointed". Nope, straight up I was the ONLY person doing so, condoned and approved by CMRA, I went out and showed what could be done, and how to do it as well.

and thereby can claim such rights without censure.

That's the last word on that....let it drop, please.
 
#884 ·
I tried using the gallery software but just wasn't having any luck getting them uploaded. If anyone has any quick suggestions on how best to post pictures, please let me know. Otherwise, I continue slog away.


Also, many of the pics I took did not turn out ... too blurry. I guess I should of studied up on my daughter's digital camera as much as I did with S-I-L-V-E-R and using the Wagner. My apologies for this ... the few I've attached here aren't bad.


Special thanks to MississippiMan for his time, opinions, and willingness to openly share share information on how one can go about applying S-I-L-V-E-R with a the Wagner. And of course to CMRA for his creation and timely bumping of the thread, which picqued my interest.


Yes, I am one very happy newbee and Love my new screen! And here's further proof ... the better half, who was dead set against me tearing down and repainting WITH A POWER SPRAYER IN THE HOUSE MIND YOU, said to me (and I quote, "Wow. I really can tell a difference.") This is the lady that said prior to the job, "The screen looks great as it is. I can't believe you are doing this. If you get any paint on any of the furniture ....."


The pics that I have are of construction and a couple of macro photos with white light.


Also, I see there is a new S-I-L-V-E-R thread. Should I post the images out there or here?
 
#885 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by patweber /forum/post/0


Also, I see there is a new S-I-L-V-E-R thread. Should I post the images out there or here?

Neither would be safe. Quite a while back Mod David Bott said NO MORE screen shot attachments...or else. (in this forum) See the sticky.


You may notice other forums are more screen shot friendly. Better to post there and link them up back here as I have. Or, do the gallery thing.


Link to both threads if you prefer. CMRA
 
#886 ·
Ok, let's give this a shot. Thanks Tiddler for the PM on how best to provide photos for everyone. I put them out on Shutterfly.com and will provide links to each photo.


The first is a not-so-good quality pic of my setup prior to painting S-I-L-V-E-R with the Wagner Control Spray:
Original theater setup


Everything is all set for spraying:
Screen ready for spraying


Got the S-I-L-V-E-R concoction ready to go!
S-I-L-V-E-R mixed and ready to spray


The finished screen in daylight (after 7 duster topcoats):
The finished screen in daylight


The difference in color between the original Behr UPW and the new S-I-L-V-E-R sprayed screen:
Along the left side of the screen


Closer look at the finished screen in daylight. Look at the contrast between the original Behr UPW on the far edge of the board and the new S-I-L-V-E-R topcoat (Note: Please ignore scuff marks and other imperfections in this corner as it will be covered by the 8" wide poplar trimboards.)
Lower left corner of screen in daylight


Screen in darkened room with white light (notice the difference between the original UPW and the S-I-L-V-E-R):
Left hand screen in dark with white light projecting


Further close-up of the lower-left corner of the screen (ignore the tip of thumb!):
Close-up of lower left corner - dark room with white light projecting


A view of the screen looking up from the floor ... again with just white light projecting:
Looking up from the floor - white light projecting on screen


Well, that's about it for tonight. I wanted to at least provide some pics of the process as I was going along. Again, I am truly a newbee and not sure if the photos I provided mean much to others out there. I do plan to take some better pictures with our digital camera once I find the batter charger for it (explains why I'm using my daughters
 
#887 ·
Here are three more quick pics in the line below.


The first pic is of the materials used in the job.

The second and third are macro photos along the edge of the screen (lower left corner and bottom). Again, ignore the trim board scuffing and imperfections. I think these are good photos to use because you can see the difference between the original painted Behr UPW and the newly painted S-I-L-V-E-R.

3 more pics to share (1) The materials, (2) macro of lower left corner, (3) macro of bottom edge
 
#888 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by patweber /forum/post/0


Here are three more quick pics in the line below.


The first pic is of the materials used in the job.

The second and third are macro photos along the edge of the screen (lower left corner and bottom). Again, ignore the trim board scuffing and imperfections. I think these are good photos to use because you can see the difference between the original painted Behr UPW and the newly painted S-I-L-V-E-R.

3 more pics to share (1) The materials, (2) macro of lower left corner, (3) macro of bottom edge

Is that a respirator I see? Whoops.


Actually, I end up doing almost ALL my spraying in well ventilated areas...outside. Good for you to include it your supply list as most certainly many will opt for spraying indoors. Good show, mate.
 
#889 ·
I was surprised how clean the Wagner operated indoors. Again, I was moving along steadily while applying the duster coats and was only dispensing at about 25% capacity of the gun, but still ... in fact, for a couple of the coats, my wife and daughters sat on the couch about 15 feet behind me and watched. While applying, I did run a fan that pushed the indoor air out the window, but shut it off immediately afterwards. When I was complete, I discarded the plastic (one of my pictures shows how much I used) and that was it.


I repainted my black trim poplar boards with the Wagner ... I used again about 35% distilled water ... provided a nice flat, smooth finish. What a neat tool indeed (the gun that is).
 
#890 ·
Yes, the extra wet material tends to shoot straight and stick where it hits, not bounce and disperse.


With a true, pressure fed HVLP, there is actually more paint dust in the air at any given moment than there is with the Wagner, because you have to use over 40 psi at the Gun with a standard HVLP Gun to get good results and a equally dispersed spray pattern that is more than 6" wide. CMRA suggests 50 psi. I used approx 40-45 psi.


But perhaps the most telling aspect is how quickly you get finished with each coat, because less time spent 'squirtin' means all the less time paint is getting introduced into the surrounding air


Even so, breathing protection is always not just advisable, it's a must......, as in mandatory.
 
#896 ·
A bit off topic but something interesting to throw on the table since this thread is about gray screens... this is a silver/gray made with no pigiments, craft paints, pearls, faux silvers or anything along those lines. Just Kilz2 and 'something else'.


This was taken with flash on from 5' away.
 
#897 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sennin /forum/post/11685657


A bit off topic but something interesting to throw on the table since this thread is about gray screens... this is a silver/gray made with no pigiments, craft paints, pearls, faux silvers or anything along those lines. Just Kilz2 and 'something else'.


This was taken with flash on from 5' away.

Ah yes the allusive something else.



I'm going to venture a guess that the something else was black in color.



To my untrained eye that sample looks like it would do a pretty good job as a screen given enough FL's.
 
#899 ·
Plus it was rolled not sprayed. It required two ingredients that are readily available in North America. And so far exhibits none of the lessor qualities that some of the advanced mixes do - ie hot spotting!


I believe that photo from 5', with a flash looks extremely promising!




Unlike my test panel of S-I-L-V-E-R, and other people's S-I-L-V-E-R screens, it appears to do a much better job of utilizing it's 'overly reflective properties'!



mech
 
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