Apple chooses...

BuGsArEtAsTy · 06-12-07, 12:55 AM

...both HD DVD and Blu-ray.

Actually, Apple has supported non-DRM'd H.264 HD DVDs in it's DVD Player for quite some time now, but with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Apple expands DVD Player's support to include both HD DVD and Blu-ray, according to this post from someone attending WWDC.

"DVD player has been able to play HD-DVDs for a long time. It has blu-ray and HD-DVD settings in prefs now."

The question though is whether or not Leopard's DVD Player will natively support VC-1, and if it will natively support DRM'd discs. One gets sick of watching wedding HD DVDs after a few times through.

I'd even be happy if the support for DRM'd HD DVD and Blu-ray meant a $20 upgrade or something. I just want to be able to play my commercial hi-def discs on my Macs.

K.L. · 06-12-07, 01:20 AM

Software support is not choice per se, drive manufacturers can bundle them. Hardware support does matter in their product lines as Apple's choice.

Timothy Ramzyk · 06-12-07, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy

...both HD DVD and Blu-ray.

Actually, Apple has supported non-DRM'd H.264 HD DVDs in it's DVD Player for quite some time now, but with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Apple expands DVD Player's support to include both HD DVD and Blu-ray, according to this post from someone attending WWDC.

"DVD player has been able to play HD-DVDs for a long time. It has blu-ray and HD-DVD settings in prefs now."

The question though is whether or not Leopard's DVD Player will natively support VC-1, and if it will natively support DRM'd discs. One gets sick of watching wedding HD DVDs after a few times through.

I'd even be happy if the support for DRM'd HD DVD and Blu-ray meant a $20 upgrade or something. I just want to be able to play my commercial hi-def discs on my Macs.

I saw this coming.

It's making it hard for me to imagine that Universal players aren't going to be the norm in the not so distant future.

BuGsArEtAsTy · 06-12-07, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K.L.

Software support is not choice per se, drive manufacturers can bundle them. Hardware support does matter in their product lines as Apple's choice.

In that case then, Apple has chosen... neither.

However, IMO software support is very much choice. Hardware support is just another form of choice.

tji · 06-12-07, 12:26 PM

Isn't Apple a member of the Blue-Ray board? (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/mar/10blu-ray.html).

The "HD DVD" support in Apple's DVD Player is just support for Apple's proprietary H.264 video on a DVD. This came when Apple added HD support to iMovie and iDVD. You can export to HD H.264 and burn it to a DVD, which will only play on a Mac. It's not the same as HD-DVD standalone players. It may be similar, I don't know about the disk/menu structure stuff.. but, the current Apple support is for non-DRM home movie material typically from an HD videocam.

So, it seems to me that Apple has continued their Blue Ray support, and will add that feature support in Leopard. This creates a few more questions..

- Will we also see Blue-Ray drive options in Macs with/before Leopard? (Do slimline Blue-Ray drives for laptops exist?) I'm guessing it will be an option, but not the standard equipment.

- Can the Mac's Core 2 Duo processors keep up with Blue-Ray video? I have viewed relatively low bitrate H.264 HD video on my MacBook Pro, and that works pretty well. But, the high bitrate H.264 video is a lot more CPU intensive...

- If the answer to question 2 is 'No', will Apple incorporate the rumored H.264 decoder chip to enable playback? Perhaps the recently announced Broadcom chip. Will the accelerator be available as an add-on for existing Macs?

diogen · 06-12-07, 12:42 PM

Intel announced support for the Broadcom hardware decoders.
That's what might end up in Apple's minis and the like.

Diogen.

tomes · 06-12-07, 12:48 PM

Could they possibly favor BluRay (or hddvd for that matter)? On one side, their nemesis MS is backing HDDVD. On the other side you have Sony, that competes with iTunes/iPod as well. (or Sony Ericsson music phones vs the new apple phone, etc).

Plus, it's in Apple's interest I'm sure to be able to claim that they are supporting both formats giving flexibility to the user.

BuGsArEtAsTy · 06-12-07, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tji

The "HD DVD" support in Apple's DVD Player is just support for Apple's proprietary H.264 video on a DVD. This came when Apple added HD support to iMovie and iDVD. You can export to HD H.264 and burn it to a DVD, which will only play on a Mac. It's not the same as HD-DVD standalone players. It may be similar, I don't know about the disk/menu structure stuff.. but, the current Apple support is for non-DRM home movie material typically from an HD videocam.

That is completely wrong.

On Macs, these HD DVD discs can only made in DVD Studio Pro, and will play in any standalone HD DVD player (and in Apple's DVD Player.app).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple

DVD Studio Pro 4 lets you create industry-standard images for SD and HD DVD replication, including dual-layer (DVD-9) as well as single-layer discs. Replicate to traditional red laser formats or double the capacity on your HD DVD disc by using the blue laser format.

You can create a disc image in one of two industry-standard formats — Cutting Master Format (CMF) version 1.0 for SD discs or version 2.0 for HD DVD discs; or Disc Description Protocol (DDP) version 2.1 for SD discs or version 3.0 for HD DVD discs. Write images to a hard drive, DVD, or digital linear tape (DLT) for transfer to the replication facility.

There is currently no support for HD DVD at all in iDVD. Furthermore, the DVDs made from iDVD are all standard DVDs. They will play in any standalone DVD player. (It doesn't matter if the source is HD or not, since iDVD will only burn standard definition DVD.)

tji · 06-12-07, 01:52 PM

My mistake, I thought that iDVD could produce hi-def content from iMovie HD.

But, on the original point, Apple's DVD Player app can only play non-DRM HD disks, not any commercial movie that can be purchased. So, to say that it supports "HD DVD" is overstating it (the original post on macrumors claimed it has supported HD-DVD for a long time).

Whether full DRM support is added in Leopard remains to be seen. Some screen shots of the new Leopard preferences would probably explain a lot.

rdjam · 06-12-07, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diogen

Intel announced support for the Broadcom hardware decoders.
That's what might end up in Apple's minis and the like.

Diogen.

This is great news. I hope to see a PCIe card with a Broadcom chip to add into my current PC...

Couldn't wait any longer for my new motherboard, so my new HTPC is Asus P5K-based.

lunddal · 06-13-07, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy

...both HD DVD and Blu-ray.

Actually, Apple has supported non-DRM'd H.264 HD DVDs in it's DVD Player for quite some time now, but with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Apple expands DVD Player's support to include both HD DVD and Blu-ray, according to this post from someone attending WWDC.

"DVD player has been able to play HD-DVDs for a long time. It has blu-ray and HD-DVD settings in prefs now."

I think that Inkhead is wrong. DVD Player in Leopard has an HD preference for choosing 'Actual video size', '720 height' and '1080 height'

Absolutely NO mention of HD DVD or Blu-ray.

BuGsArEtAsTy · 06-13-07, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunddal

I think that Inkhead is wrong. DVD Player in Leopard has an HD preference for choosing 'Actual video size', '720 height' and '1080 height'

Absolutely NO mention of HD DVD or Blu-ray.

Leopard.

diogen · 06-13-07, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diogen

Intel announced support for the Broadcom hardware decoders.
That's what might end up in Apple's minis and the like.

Diogen.

Not in the minis yet, but already in their laptops...

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardw...santa-rosa.ars

Diogen.

tji · 06-13-07, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diogen

Not in the minis yet, but already in their laptops...

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardw...santa-rosa.ars

Diogen.

Well, the new MBPs have Santa Rosa chipsets, but I have never heard that they also have the Broadcom video decoder on-board. My interpretation was that Intel was saying that their IGP video acceleration wouldn't cut it for H.264, so they were going to use Broadcom's chip in the future.

Intel did a demo recently, where they used a broadcom PCIe accelerator card to demo this: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8441

lunddal · 06-13-07, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy

Leopard.

Huh??

tji · 06-13-07, 12:58 PM

What version of Leopard did you see that on? I think that 'Inkhead' in that other thread was reporting on what was seen at WWDC. Maybe these preferences are a recent addition.

lunddal · 06-13-07, 01:12 PM

I have the WWDC build.

Other things that inkhead mentioned are wrong. There are no fast restart to Windows and you can't turn of meny bar translucency.

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BuGsArEtAsTy Swollen Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: AVS Forum Posts: 7,051	Apple chooses... ...both HD DVD and Blu-ray. Actually, Apple has supported non-DRM'd H.264 HD DVDs in it's DVD Player for quite some time now, but with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Apple expands DVD Player's support to include both HD DVD and Blu-ray, according to this post from someone attending WWDC. "DVD player has been able to play HD-DVDs for a long time. It has blu-ray and HD-DVD settings in prefs now." The question though is whether or not Leopard's DVD Player will natively support VC-1, and if it will natively support DRM'd discs. One gets sick of watching wedding HD DVDs after a few times through. I'd even be happy if the support for DRM'd HD DVD and Blu-ray meant a $20 upgrade or something. I just want to be able to play my commercial hi-def discs on my Macs. __________________ Everything Apple \| Xbox 360 HD DVD audio lag \| HD DVD movie size \| Funai Blu-ray disc compatibility

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tji AVS Special Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,024	Isn't Apple a member of the Blue-Ray board? (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/mar/10blu-ray.html). The "HD DVD" support in Apple's DVD Player is just support for Apple's proprietary H.264 video on a DVD. This came when Apple added HD support to iMovie and iDVD. You can export to HD H.264 and burn it to a DVD, which will only play on a Mac. It's not the same as HD-DVD standalone players. It may be similar, I don't know about the disk/menu structure stuff.. but, the current Apple support is for non-DRM home movie material typically from an HD videocam. So, it seems to me that Apple has continued their Blue Ray support, and will add that feature support in Leopard. This creates a few more questions.. - Will we also see Blue-Ray drive options in Macs with/before Leopard? (Do slimline Blue-Ray drives for laptops exist?) I'm guessing it will be an option, but not the standard equipment. - Can the Mac's Core 2 Duo processors keep up with Blue-Ray video? I have viewed relatively low bitrate H.264 HD video on my MacBook Pro, and that works pretty well. But, the high bitrate H.264 video is a lot more CPU intensive... - If the answer to question 2 is 'No', will Apple incorporate the rumored H.264 decoder chip to enable playback? Perhaps the recently announced Broadcom chip. Will the accelerator be available as an add-on for existing Macs?

06-12-07, 01:20 AM	#2 \| Link
K.L. . Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 945	Software support is not choice per se, drive manufacturers can bundle them. Hardware support does matter in their product lines as Apple's choice.

06-12-07, 12:42 PM	#6 \| Link
diogen AVS Special Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,324	Intel announced support for the Broadcom hardware decoders. That's what might end up in Apple's minis and the like. Diogen.

06-12-07, 12:48 PM	#7 \| Link
tomes AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: IL Posts: 1,808	Could they possibly favor BluRay (or hddvd for that matter)? On one side, their nemesis MS is backing HDDVD. On the other side you have Sony, that competes with iTunes/iPod as well. (or Sony Ericsson music phones vs the new apple phone, etc). Plus, it's in Apple's interest I'm sure to be able to claim that they are supporting both formats giving flexibility to the user.

06-12-07, 01:52 PM	#9 \| Link
tji AVS Special Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,024	My mistake, I thought that iDVD could produce hi-def content from iMovie HD. But, on the original point, Apple's DVD Player app can only play non-DRM HD disks, not any commercial movie that can be purchased. So, to say that it supports "HD DVD" is overstating it (the original post on macrumors claimed it has supported HD-DVD for a long time). Whether full DRM support is added in Leopard remains to be seen. Some screen shots of the new Leopard preferences would probably explain a lot.

06-13-07, 12:58 PM	#16 \| Link
tji AVS Special Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,024	What version of Leopard did you see that on? I think that 'Inkhead' in that other thread was reporting on what was seen at WWDC. Maybe these preferences are a recent addition.

06-13-07, 01:12 PM	#17 \| Link
lunddal Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 186	I have the WWDC build. Other things that inkhead mentioned are wrong. There are no fast restart to Windows and you can't turn of meny bar translucency.