PARAMOUNT going LOSSLESS audio...not quite yet!

[TheLion]

It was "strongly suggested" (more than your everyday rumor, but no official press release yet) that Paramount/Dreamworks will FINALLY include lossless audio tracks on their releases - starting with "Blades of Glory".

Well...release date is August 28...but here is a scan of the back cover with all the discs specs:

HD-DVD gets just the regular Dolby Digital+ treatment while the Blu-Ray is officially the first Paramount release with lossless audio (PCM track).

Rather strange decision in my opinion. The HD-DVD was rumored to contain a full-blown TrueHD track.

It will be very interesting how this develops with upcoming releases like Top Gun, Face Off and the Jack Ryan collection.

Above all both HD camps deserve Transformers in full lossless audio glory...

[MSmith83]

The Paramount insider who sometimes posts here stated a while back that the HD DVD release of Blades of Glory will not have a master quality track, whereas the Blu-Ray version will. He mentioned that the HD extras likely prohibited the needed space for a TrueHD track.

[bunkaroo]

Excluding a lossless track in favor of extras just plain sucks.

[TheLion]

Originally Posted by MSmith83

The Paramount insider who sometimes posts here stated a while back that the HD DVD release of Blades of Glory will not have a master quality track, whereas the Blu-Ray version will. He mentioned that the HD extras likely prohibited the needed space for a TrueHD track.

I must have missed that...thanks for the heads up.

In the end we are talking about an 93 minutes movie here. Movies don't get any shorter than this...and still "extras likely prohibited the needed space for a TrueHD track".

AmirM:" 30GB is enough!"

What will they do in the future - with releases like Top Gun, Jack Ryan box and Transformers (much longer movies, likely with more extras) - use a second disc (not likely for all their future releases...), give up some extras (J6P demand his documentaries and interviews...), continue to go with lossy DD+ tracks on HD-DVD or just start making (much) short movies...

I guess it will be a title by title decision on HD-DVD. Welcome to the wonderful world of compromise.

btw whats the name of the "paramount insider"? Thank you.

[MSmith83]

I should mention a few other points made by the insider.

Paramount's upcoming release of Face/Off will NOT have a master quality option on either format.

Top Gun will have a 48 kHz/24-bit TrueHD track on HD DVD, and a 48 kHz/24-bit PCM track on Blu-Ray.

As for the Jack Ryan collection, it will certainly be TrueHD for HD DVD and PCM for Blu-Ray.

[TheLion]

Originally Posted by MSmith83

I should mention a few other points made by the insider.

Paramount's upcoming release of Face/Off will NOT have a master quality option on either format.

Top Gun will have a 48 kHz/24-bit TrueHD track on HD DVD, and a 48 kHz/24-bit PCM track on Blu-Ray.

As for the Jack Ryan collection, it will certainly be TrueHD for HD DVD and PCM for Blu-Ray.

Whooo...that's VERY bad news with Face/Off.

[DigitalfreakNYC]

Originally Posted by TheLion

What will they do in the future - with releases like Top Gun, Jack Ryan box and Transformers (much longer movies, likely with more extras) - use a second disc (not likely for all their future releases...), give up some extras (J6P demand his documentaries and interviews...), continue to go with lossy DD+ tracks on HD-DVD or just start making (much) short movies...

I DEFINITELY don't consider myself J6P and want ALL extras on there, thank you very much. If you prefer extra-less discs with uncomressed sound, you're in the wrong forum.

All of the Jack Ryan movies have MINIMAL extras. I don't think any of the documentaries are over 30 minutes on each disc.

Transformers is the only movie I could see using 2 discs.

[TheLion]

Originally Posted by DigitalfreakNYC

I DEFINITELY don't consider myself J6P and want ALL extras on there, thank you very much. If you prefer extra-less discs with uncomressed sound, you're in the wrong forum.

All of the Jack Ryan movies have MINIMAL extras. I don't think any of the documentaries are over 30 minutes on each disc.

Transformers is the only movie I could see using 2 discs.

You get me all wrong. I like all the extras I can get (preferably in HD) ... AS LONG as they don't compromise the PQ and SQ of the main feature.

Dropping a lossless audio track or decrease video bitrate from plenty to "just enough" levels in favor of some extra features are compromises I will never support.

Not dropping one of the documentaries and instead providing a lossless audio track with this HD-DVD release is obviously a compromise targeted at J6P (he would notice the "missing" extra feature but certainly would never hear a difference between DD+ and lossless audio).

[TriptonUpman]

bummer. thats what a 30 gig disc limit gets you.

[DigitalfreakNYC]

Originally Posted by TheLion

You get me all wrong. I like all the extras I can get (preferably in HD) ... AS LONG as they don't compromise the PQ and SQ of the main feature.

Dropping a lossless audio track or decrease video bitrate from plenty to "just enough" levels in favor of some extra features are compromises I will never support.

Not dropping one of the documentaries and instead providing a lossless audio track with this HD-DVD release is obviously a compromise targeted at J6P (he would notice the "missing" extra feature but certainly would never hear a difference between DD+ and lossless audio).

again...i'm not J6P at all...and I would notice the missing extras. I also don't need extras in HD and don't care if they are. Put them in SD for all I care. I also notice the difference between lossless audio and and DD+. Honestly, though, I'd rather have all the extras and DD+ than lossless and missing extras. It's also quite possible, though, that this might be a bandwith issue and not a disc space issue.

[Megalith]

Transformers will only have a MIDI track because Paramount will include so many awesome extra features.

[TheLion]

Originally Posted by DigitalfreakNYC

I'd rather have all the extras and DD+ than lossless and missing extras.

This is where we disagree - to each his own I guess. But WHY make compromises? You know which version to order.

[WirelessGuru]

Originally Posted by TheLion

This is where we disagree - to each his own I guess. But WHY make compromises? You know which version to order.

I agree with you. In fact I am starting to get a little bit pissed off at the studios who aren't releasing with a lossless track.

We are buying HD releases here. Not HD Video with Yesterday's audio. the studios are literally "half-as$ing" any title that is deficient of a lossless track.

[Slaine]

Originally Posted by Megalith

Transformers will only have a MIDI track because Paramount will include so many awesome extra features.

[Dave_6]

Originally Posted by Megalith

Transformers will only have a MIDI track because Paramount will include so many awesome extra features.

LOL

I hope not....

[jiggawhat]

Remember I did say this is what it looks like so far. We still have a month to go before this is actually released. So relax people. I will update as we get closer to the release date.

[DigitalfreakNYC]

Originally Posted by TheLion

This is where we disagree - to each his own I guess. But WHY make compromises? You know which version to order.

Yes I do.

Neither. You couldn't pay me to sit through this movie

[Slim GoodBooty]

Originally Posted by Megalith

Transformers will only have a MIDI track because Paramount will include so many awesome extra features.

Hey! That could actually be cool!

[blipszyc]

Originally Posted by TheLion

What will they do in the future - with releases like Top Gun, Jack Ryan box and Transformers (much longer movies, likely with more extras) - use a second disc (not likely for all their future releases...),

Actually, YES! I remember reading sometime last year that consumers rather have the extras and trailers on a 2nd disc. They felt like they were getting a better value when 2 discs were included rather than a single disc crammed, or even a flipper. So, most likely, longer movies will include extras, games, etc. on a second disc, while the first will likely hold the movie, the PIP and the audio. Now if only the studios could eliminate the extra languages on the US version of the disc, that would save some room as well.

[Adam_ME]

The 30GB limit is becoming an issue with Paramount titles. Blades of Glory on HD-DVD isn't getting a lossless track, Face/Off is leaving off some extras that the Blu-ray version will have, and both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD releases of Top Gun will be bare bones.

It's times like this I'm glad to be format neutral, but I always prefer to buy the HD-DVD version, so this sucks.

[DigitalfreakNYC]

Originally Posted by Adam_ME

The 30GB limit is becoming an issue with Paramount titles. Blades of Glory on HD-DVD isn't getting a lossless track, Face/Off is leaving off some extras that the Blu-ray version will have, and both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD releases of Top Gun will be bare bones.

It's times like this I'm glad to be format neutral, but I always prefer to buy the HD-DVD version, so this sucks.

if BOTH the BD and HD versions of Top Gun are going to be barebones, then clearly 30gb ain't the issue. WTF!??!?!?!?!?!?

[TheLoveone]

Originally Posted by DigitalfreakNYC

if BOTH the BD and HD versions of Top Gun are going to be barebones, then clearly 30gb ain't the issue. WTF!??!?!?!?!?!?

...then explain chopped off extras on the Face/Off HD-DVD and no lossless on the Blades of Glory HD-DVD.

I mean honestly how is this even a surprise. It is inevitable. If one format has 20GB of extra head room do you expect studios to not utilize it, forever and ever and ever? It is amazing what some of your expectations seem to be. A 20GB difference in disc size is real and it may pose a limit for SOME releases, especially if the studios encode and design the disc around 50GB.

[MichaelHDDVD]

Originally Posted by TriptonUpman

bummer. thats what a 30 gig disc limit gets you.

You're right, a 93 minute movie needs 30 GB of space It wouldn't surprise me if this fit on a HD15 with a TrueHD track

[DigitalfreakNYC]

Originally Posted by TheLoveone

...then explain chopped off extras on the Face/Off HD-DVD and no lossless on the Blades of Glory HD-DVD.

I mean honestly how is this even a surprise. It is inevitable. If one format has 20GB of extra head room do you expect studios to not utilize it, forever and ever and ever? It is amazing what some of your expectations seem to be. A 20GB difference in disc size is real and it may pose a limit for SOME releases, especially if the studios encode and design the disc around 50GB.

Dude...it's simple math. There's NO extras on either one. If there were extras on the BD of Top Gun but not on the HD, then I'd say you've got a point. I'm talking about this one particular title. NEITHER has extras. That makes no sense. They just came out with a SE on DVD. There are some there. This sucks.

[MichaelHDDVD]

Originally Posted by TheLoveone

...then explain chopped off extras on the Face/Off HD-DVD and no lossless on the Blades of Glory HD-DVD.

I mean honestly how is this even a surprise. It is inevitable. If one format has 20GB of extra head room do you expect studios to not utilize it, forever and ever and ever? It is amazing what some of your expectations seem to be. A 20GB difference in disc size is real and it may pose a limit for SOME releases, especially if the studios encode and design the disc around 50GB.

Then Explain The Matrix which had TrueHD, IME, etc

[timbobarry]

All the online retailers are reporting it with having Dolby TrueHD. Taking the wait and see for this.

http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_ite...archID=1180195

http://turnerclassic.moviesunlimited...cat=co&media=v

http://www.hdmoviesource.com/catalog...roducts_id=804

http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=808739

http://www.moviesunlimited.com/musit...asp?sku=H79008

[RobertR1]

If this is DD+ at 1.5 for HD DVD and PCM for BR, it would be interesting to know if there are any differences as it's been reported by certain insiders that DD+ at 1.5 is perceptually lossless. If I'm wrong and such a claim has never been made, feel free to correct me.

[HPforMe]

True or not (no pun intended) Toshiba must continuously push the envelope i.e., the 51 gb disks must be quickly implemented. In this format war if you sit on your laurels you won't last long.

[TriptonUpman]

Originally Posted by HPforMe

True or not (no pun intended) Toshiba must continuously push the envelope i.e., the 51 gb disks must be quickly implemented. In this format war if you sit on your laurels you won't last long.

well that would be too bad for all current hd-dvd owners who would need new machines to play the 51 gb discs.

[BigJon7527]

Originally Posted by TriptonUpman

well that would be too bad for all current hd-dvd owners who would need new machines to play the 51 gb discs.

Prove that we need to upgrade.