Comcast TiVo DVR

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by bicker1

I have both CableCards and a (non-TiVo) cable box (for VOD). The PQ is the same between the two.

How does the TV know which one to use? Also, why do you have both if the PQ is the same? Are there any other reasons?

[Dbower]

Originally Posted by therob006

Motorola is in the business of making electronics, part of that being cable boxes. ......

If you can call the current piece of sh.. er, electronics a cable box, given the slow response time, the remote 'sleep, then wake up and do everything you asked of me while sleeping' mode, etc. Oh, and the spontaneous reset feature!

I just don't get why Comcast would overlay a complex piece of code on top of the existing, barely functional code. And charge more for it. (DOH! THAT'S the reason!).

I really have my doubts that this Tivo upgrade is really going to fly, given the problems reported pre and post Tivo. How is it that there is already a code patch for 5.1 audio? Isn't this a pretty basic function that should have been ironed out before release?

-Dave

[andydumi]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Is it possible to use both, cable card and cable box? I definitely need the box for VOD, but some say that the PQ with cable card is somewhat better than with the box.

PQ is the same. And you can have both, but Comcast will likely charge you more. Although there is a clause somewhere that allows you to get 1 free non DVR cable box for VOD purposes for free.

[dean-l]

Originally Posted by Dbower

If you can call the current piece of sh.. er, electronics a cable box, given the slow response time, the remote 'sleep, then wake up and do everything you asked of me while sleeping' mode, etc. Oh, and the spontaneous reset feature!

I just don't get why Comcast would overlay a complex piece of code on top of the existing, barely functional code. And charge more for it. (DOH! THAT'S the reason!).

I really have my doubts that this Tivo upgrade is really going to fly, given the problems reported pre and post Tivo. How is it that there is already a code patch for 5.1 audio? Isn't this a pretty basic function that should have been ironed out before release?

-Dave

Only by associating itself directly with cable could Tivo suddenly forget the importance of DD 5.1.

These DVR's are barely up to "release date" quality and reliability at this moment. In open market conditions, they would have failed miserably 2 years ago.

Only in a monopolistic situation, would people pay money for something that barely worked for the first 2 years.

Imagine if Plasma TV's started out with the same reliability. THey would not exist today because of the bad reputation.

[mburstin]

Originally Posted by Sim-X

I just don't understand why you can't plug in an external usb harddrive. You can pick up 500 gigs for 100 bucks??? It's such a simple solution and how hard would it be to enable it, my box has allready got the usb port. Who's stupid idea was that, lets put usb ports on our boxes and then never allow anyone to use them

Actually, it would probably be eSata (which the box has as well). I don't think that USB is fast enough.

I agree, though, I want to expand my capacity.

[bicker1]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

How does the TV know which one to use?

They're connected to different inputs ("HDMI1" and "HDMI2" -- my television happens to have two HDMI inputs).

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Also, why do you have both if the PQ is the same? Are there any other reasons?

As I indicated, I have the cable company box for VOD. Also, there are a few hours each week that there are three shows we watch which are broadcast in HD. Each DVR only has two tuners. 3/2 = 1.5 rounded up = 2. >shrug<

[bicker1]

Originally Posted by Dbower

I just don't get why Comcast would overlay a complex piece of code on top of the existing, barely functional code. And charge more for it. (DOH! THAT'S the reason!).

Well, yes, and also because it is a reflection of customer desire; many people want a TiVo (because they've heard so much about it) without the broader ramifications (having to buy the box, take the risk of it failing, paying more for the higher quality electronics that TiVo puts into its stand-alone boxes, etc. -- that last one is really important: J6P is cheap and doesn't want to pay extra for better hardware.)

Originally Posted by Dbower

I really have my doubts that this Tivo upgrade is really going to fly, given the problems reported pre and post Tivo.

I think the problems reported are not insurmountable. Things will likely stabilize as subsequent updates are applied.

Originally Posted by Dbower

How is it that there is already a code patch for 5.1 audio? Isn't this a pretty basic function that should have been ironed out before release?

No, not really. Heck, the first version of the stand-alone TiVo software included a bug that resulted in loss of Closed Captions, a feature required by law, for the vast majority of localities. "Basic function" is a pretty narrow set, especially in light of how these issues are typically specific to certain configurations, localities, etc..

[McGuireV10]

Originally Posted by Dbower

I just don't get why Comcast would overlay a complex piece of code on top of the existing, barely functional code. And charge more for it. (DOH! THAT'S the reason!).

It doesn't overlay, it replaces. bicker1 is more accurate with the observation that the Comcast/Motorola hardware is just hopelessly low-end.

Personally I want the Tivo software because of Season Pass and keyword-based recording, and the better processes for recognizing already-recorded content. There are lots of reasons beyond just "they heard so much about it". Tivo has a better methodology and their UI is dramatically better.

[mburstin]

Originally Posted by McGuireV10

It doesn't overlay, it replaces. bicker1 is more accurate with the observation that the Comcast/Motorola hardware is just hopelessly low-end.

Personally I want the Tivo software because of Season Pass and keyword-based recording, and the better processes for recognizing already-recorded content. There are lots of reasons beyond just "they heard so much about it". Tivo has a better methodology and their UI is dramatically better.

It does run on top of the Moto stack -- its an OCAP application (though I've heard people refer to it running on Moto's slightly modified version). In any case, its a whole new beast, running on Java rather than raw OS.

In any case, I agree, after using the iGuide POS for a few weeks (I just recently upgraded to HD), I was desperate for a "real" Tivo experience. Needing to use the program grid, day +/- to record a show was painful, plus lack of wishlists made things painful (such as me wanting to record my team's games on Center Ice, where the channel varies from day to day.

Plus everything else I'm used to from Tivo -- the jump back after fast forward, a better to-do list (daily break downs of Todo was terribly inefficient)...

[Chunky Monkey]

Instructions for enabling the 30-sec skip backdoor on the Comcast DVR with TiVo Service:

Go to TiVo Recordings list and play back a recording.

Enter the following key sequence on the remote control:
Rewind
Slow
Fast Forward
Play
3
0
Advance

(The Advance key (aka skip-to-tick key) is the key that looks like ( ->| ) .)

The user will hear a chime sound to indicate that the 30-sec skip backdoor has been successfully enabled. The user can enter the same key sequence again to turn off the 30-sec skip backdoor.

With the 30-sec skip backdoor enabled, and while in "Play" mode in Live TV, a recording, or an ON DEMAND program, pressing the Advance key ( ->| ) will jump ahead 30 seconds. While in "Fast Forward" or "Rewind" mode, pressing the Advance key will jump to the next tick mark on the trickplay bar.

If the set-top box is restarted, the 30-sec skip backdoor setting is not maintained. Following a restart, the user will need to enter the backdoor key sequence to re-enable the 30-sec backdoor.

[Watrat]

Nice find..works great!

[cypherstream]

Woah your serious, there's a 30 second skip backdoor? And it even works on On DEMAND programming? Wow, ok SOLD.

I was on the fence there for awhile, but if 30 second skip indeed works, then I'll get one when it reaches central PA.

[jonwww]

Originally Posted by McGuireV10

Personally I want the Tivo software because of Season Pass and keyword-based recording, and the better processes for recognizing already-recorded content. There are lots of reasons beyond just "they heard so much about it". Tivo has a better methodology and their UI is dramatically better.

I second those reasons, as well as the 'bounce back' after FF and lack of ads in the guide, amongst other things.

Things that I think would be nice to change/fix:
*have the 3 sized info bar remember the position I want it to stay in, instead of defaulting back to the full size after a while
*when in the guide, sometimes all the show info isn't displayed so you have to select the show to see the rest of the info, would be nice to just press the 'INFO' button instead. This is annoying if the show you're trying to get info on is on at the current time, because when you select it, it changes to that channel whether you like it or not
*5.1 (which hopefully will be fixed soon)
*fix some of the lag between screens. Surprisingly my DCH box has more lag then my DCT box. Surprising because the DCH is a newer box. I've tried restarting/reseting box with no change (hopefully better soon)
*fix the Tivo sound effects on the DCH boxes (sounds a little silly but this is the box I'd like to be able to turn them on, the DCT I have them off because it's in the bedroom) (hopefully fixed soon)
*someone had mentioned changing to the Tivo style guide, which although would be nicer, I personally wouldn't make it a high priority

*Day+ in when using the guide (I realize there are other ways to advance when in the guide, but this was an easy way to forward a day to the same channel & time)
*Hard drive space remaining indication. It's nice to know when you have to hurry up & watch or delete some content before losing it or not recording something new

Also not a Tivo box type issue, but if someone has multiple DVR's in the house let them have the Tivo interface on selected boxes. Personally I'd like to have the Tivo on one & the i-guide on the other.
As I've said a couple times now in this post, this is my wish list, I'm sure other people would add or subtract from it.

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by bicker1

They're connected to different inputs ("HDMI1" and "HDMI2" -- my television happens to have two HDMI inputs).
..

Super! I'll try it. My set has 4 HDMI inputs so it shouldn't be a problem.

[charliekboston]

I never used this feature on my old tivos. Regardless, it works, for ALL you folks that NEED this.

[bicker1]

Originally Posted by jonwww

I second those reasons, as well as the 'bounce back' after FF and lack of ads in the guide, amongst other things.

Don't get too attached to the lack of ads in the guide. That will almost surely change over time. It is still early in the deployment.

Originally Posted by jonwww

Things that I think would be nice to change/fix:
*30 sec skip (I'm getting by without it, but it would be much appreciated to have it back. For anyone that's used it you know the importance) <maybe fixed since I wrote this>

I doubt that. It was always there, and as always, was an unpublished capability. Again, as always, it took time before the code was found.

Originally Posted by jonwww

*fix some of the lag between screens. Surprisingly my DCH box has more lag then my DCT box. Surprising because the DCH is a newer box.

Not really. From everything we know, there are no significant differences between the DCT and the DCH that don't have to do with the separable authentication and the exterior shell.

[gwsat]

I was delighted to learn that there is a backdoor way to set up the 30 second skip ahead feature on the Comcast-TiVo DVRs. That’s a BIG deal. The ability to skip ahead 30 seconds with a single button push will change your life. Trust me on this. It’s too bad that the 30 second skip feature is lost when the box reboots. It had been that way on TiVo's own boxes, too, until the last couple of versions of the software when, at long last, they changed things so that the 30 second skip feature, once setup, was retained, even after a reboot.

I agree with bicker1 and others who have expressed confidence that the current bugs in the Comcast-TiVo software will get resolved. The kind of frustration that is being expressed here is the sort of thing that happens to early adopters with virtually every new product, especially when, as here, they are the very first customers to get it. Fortunately, such problems almost always get solved over time.

[crossbeaux]

Originally Posted by mburstin

Actually, it would probably be eSata (which the box has as well). I don't think that USB is fast enough.

I agree, though, I want to expand my capacity.

A friend of mine just switched to Dish with their HD DVR and he claims his box (don't know brand) can be updated with a USB drive. And I was just in DC this weekend visiting a friend who just got an HD DVR (Cox cable with Scientific Atlantic DVR). The box she got had only an 80G drive, but could be updated with an eSATA drive. The manual even told you where programs get stored on the multiple drives. The Comcast/Motorola boxes are WAY behind in this regard.

[Dbower]

Originally Posted by bicker1

I think the problems reported are not insurmountable. Things will likely stabilize as subsequent updates are applied.

Yeah, well.....we'll see. The bugs on the existing platform have been around a LONG time and no fix in site. Plus, there have been some reports of the same bugs (lagging remote, etc) with the TiVo code which suggests some of the core problems still exist.

And I can't believe anyone would defend the 5.1 audio bug. That IS a basic feature whose function should have been ironed out in development.

Which is, I think, the core problem. Comcast is using it's customers as beta sites before the code is really ready. They only fix that which causes the loudest cries.

I like my Comcast for the most part - but there is a draw to Direct given the larger HD content and much cheaper price. There are days when I just want to throw the STB across the room (or take a hammer to a Comcast rep's screen ).

If Comcast can't or won't fix these issues soon, it may be worth the hassles of wiring and dish mounting to go to the dark side.

-Dave

[jonwww]

Originally Posted by bicker1

Don't get too attached to the lack of ads in the guide. That will almost surely change over time. It is still early in the deployment.

Well I can enjoy until they change this.

I doubt that. It was always there, and as always, was an unpublished capability. Again, as always, it took time before the code was found.

Sorry I phrased that poorly, but removed it from my post anyway being it's been found, tested & set for my boxes. It's kind of odd how much joy just this one feature brings.

Not really. From everything we know, there are no significant differences between the DCT and the DCH that don't have to do with the separable authentication and the exterior shell.

But isn't something newer always better? Regardless, even if they are mainly the same inside (which I believe they are), shouldn't they be the same? Should one be clearly better then the other (at least in the 2 boxes I have, maybe this is not the same results with all boxes)? I have thought of swapping where the two boxes are, but already have season passes set on both for multiple shows & they fit better aesthetically.

[mcamden]

Originally Posted by jonwww

Regardless, even if they are mainly the same inside (which I believe they are), shouldn't they be the same? Should one be clearly better then the other (at least in the 2 boxes I have, maybe this is not the same results with all boxes)? I have thought of swapping where the two boxes are, but already have season passes set on both for multiple shows & they fit better aesthetically.

I think it has to do with the quality control (or lack thereof) by Motorola. I went through five DCT641x over a two year period before I finally7 gave up and went with a Tivo HD. Each of them exhibited different but still profound issues. These ranged from the remote command backup issue to faulty hard drives to frequent random reboots (requiring a reload of the guide each time) to just locking up. While one would reasonably expect devices of the same model number within the same revision to work the same, with these faults, it seemed like each box was a different beast.

Given my experience and the experience of others with whom I have spoken with Moto DVRs, I don't find it surprising that you see differing performance on two different models.

[WGMARQ]

Originally Posted by Chunky Monkey

Instructions for enabling the 30-sec skip backdoor on the Comcast DVR with TiVo Service:

Go to TiVo Recordings list and play back a recording.

Enter the following key sequence on the remote control:
Rewind
Slow
Fast Forward
Play
3
0
Advance

(The Advance key (aka skip-to-tick key) is the key that looks like ( ->| ) .)

The user will hear a chime sound to indicate that the 30-sec skip backdoor has been successfully enabled. The user can enter the same key sequence again to turn off the 30-sec skip backdoor.

With the 30-sec skip backdoor enabled, and while in "Play" mode in Live TV, a recording, or an ON DEMAND program, pressing the Advance key ( ->| ) will jump ahead 30 seconds. While in "Fast Forward" or "Rewind" mode, pressing the Advance key will jump to the next tick mark on the trickplay bar.

If the set-top box is restarted, the 30-sec skip backdoor setting is not maintained. Following a restart, the user will need to enter the backdoor key sequence to re-enable the 30-sec backdoor.

Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You

[bruce24]

Originally Posted by bicker1

Don't get too attached to the lack of ads in the guide. That will almost surely change over time. It is still early in the deployment.

I don't think i would continue to pay the extra for the tivo service is they started to clutter the guide with ads.

[alanronkin]

After the death of my fourth Motorola box I give up. I bought a new Tivo Series 3 ... I wish y'all well with this competely ridiculous product. In my view, we have all been paying to beta test a completely unworkable product.

[brianr0131]

Call and complain. I bet they'll refund you that 5.90 you shelled out.

[alanronkin]

Oh... it was much more than that... It will be fun trying to get it back.

[jonwww]

Originally Posted by alanronkin

Oh... it was much more than that... It will be fun trying to get it back.

Just out of curiosity, what part of 'soft launch of a brand new product' screamed very stable product to you? As much as many people want to be early adopters of new technologies, they don't want the possible side effects involved. It would have been nice if all went smoothly for everyone, but that wouldn't really be realistic. All things considered on this rollout they didn't go that bad (no one died that I'm aware of).

[clarkofwar]

Originally Posted by jonwww

Just out of curiosity, what part of 'soft launch of a brand new product' screamed very stable product to you? As much as many people want to be early adopters of new technologies, they don't want the possible side effects involved. It would have been nice if all went smoothly for everyone, but that wouldn't really be realistic. All things considered on this rollout they didn't go that bad (no one died that I'm aware of).

I do think the launch went pretty well. There are plenty of bugs but overall it works and that is pretty good for a new launch.

From what I read, correct me if i am wrong, when Comcast calls to tell the customer it is available no one has said Comcast tells them it is a soft launch. It seems they are charging people to enter what I call Beta 2 which doesn't seem fair.

[bicker1]

I would love to see someone extol the virtues of the iGuide software, in comparison to the TiVo software running on the same box. The fact that that's not likely to happen much is a testament to the fact that this isn't "Beta 2". Are folks with iGuide that much happier than folks with TiVo?

[tbertino]

Originally Posted by bicker1

I would love to see someone extol the virtues of the iGuide software, in comparison to the TiVo software running on the same box. The fact that that's not likely to happen much is a testament to the fact that this isn't "Beta 2". Are folks with iGuide that much happier than folks with TiVo?

The problem is we don't like EITHER. One because it's not as functional (iGuide), the other because it was rolled out before it was ready. And personally having used the TiVo software for a couple of days before my box crapped out, I wasn't that impressed with that either. If it works, it's better than the iGuide, but not all that much.

Now this may be limited to those who have experienced a real TiVo. Others who haven't don't know any better.

Now, if I hadn't had so many problems with Comcast and wasn't thinking about switching to Verizon when they come around, I would have already gotten a Tivo HD box. To those who have an old TiVo, have the option to move over their lifetime subscription, and will be with Comcast for the forseeable future, GET THE HD TIVO BOX. It will pay for itself in a few years.