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The Official Pioneer 8G KURO Owner's Discussions Thread

3M views 18K replies 2K participants last post by  bigbadbob 
#1 ·
OK, first off, thanks to Roman@Invision for his friendly and fast service.
In the door for ~75%MSRP ain't too shabby either!


An unabashed black-level fan, I have been frustrated since replacing my first HDTV, a 2001 Sony XBR CRT. Many plasmas, LCD's, DLP's,and projectors later, I have landed one of these 8G's, mostly on the strength of this forum and it's like- minded (hello Mr.Harkness) folk. Was a bit skeptical of all the hype from trade shows and such,but hopeful none the less.


Anyway, I've had it (4280)running 4 hrs. now,both in filtered daylight conditions and now some night-time viewing and it does not dissapoint. I have it side by side with a 9G Panny 58 running the same source and having been self-calibrated with AVIA.

Naturally,the PIO is just out of the box, using standard setting for now.


Where to begin?


Universal HD-DVDs open with a starry space-like sky with planet earth in foreground-I have been known to count the stars in it to measure "blackness of space". I tried to take a picture of it, but was far too blurry to publish.

Suffice it to say though, the PIO is a new high, very near to CRT level black, as I remember it.


The one picture attatched is a night scene from the opening of SAT NITE LIVE.

Hopefully, it shows relative black level to the Panny , which may be the best plasma I have had . I know taking pictures like this is a crap-shoot but someone will ask for them anyway. I tried to keep the variables to a minimum.

I can take more if requested but please be patient as I test my new toy.


As far as the sidebars approaching the blackness of the frame, this guy comes pretty close -not quite a total blending, but closer than anything since CRT.


I expect to have an HD-DVD calibration disc by tomorrow, and will try to be better dialed in soon.


First impressions:


Very smooth, almost no dithering, unlike the Panny.


Pure whites,no grey whites here.


Plenty sharp and detailed , better than the 5070 I had.


Natural motion(120hz?) beats the heck out of any LCD I have owned.


Screen a bit more reflective than I thought, Elite will probably be better.


And of course, blacks to beat all ('cept maybe the 'ole CRT)


For the entry price , I think it's a winner.


Roman: Please reserve my 6010 in the fall!


Steve Longo
 
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#13,241 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits /forum/post/13391463


Contact Roman at Invision by phone. See their adv. at the top of each AVS page. He has a lot of happy customers in this thread.

I purchased a 6010 from Roman in December and it arrived in great condition and so far no HUM or Screen defects. They were a pleasure to deal with and great price. They also have a great warrantry upgrade as well as a great shipping service. I love my 6010 and if i were you i would call right away before there are No more to be av.
 
#13,242 ·
option 1. audio - use the mini jack line out (using commonly available mini to mini cable) from the mac to the PC AUDIO INPUT input on the TV ; video- dvi to VGA (15pin D) adapter to PC VIDEO input.


Option 2. if above is n/a for your mac, then for audio connect mac's line out to TV's INPUT 1 (using a mini-to-RCA cable) and for Video use mac's S video or composite adapter and connect to INPUT 1, S-Video or composite on the TV. the pq in this case will not be very good.


in both options above you may to set the mac to out the audio form line out as many model have digital/optical out also.


the main thing remember is that for most macs. the audio is available as line out and has to be connected and configured separately from the Video.


btw, which mac do you have?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wlock /forum/post/13388417


Got new 5080 and connected it to my mac - have got pictures but no audio. have bought various leads and connected them to various sockets but nothing seems to work.

How should i be connecting my mac, please help.
 
#13,243 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 /forum/post/13389370


Actually, they probably will not. Upscaling, per se, is the relatively easy part, and the 5080 has to do it again anyway, as DVD and BD players do not output it's native resolution (768p). Even if they did, only the 5080's PC inputs could accept the signal.


The more difficult task is de-interlacing and related functions (2:3 pulldown detection, etc.), and most BD players are only mediocre at that. He would get better results from a "decent" SD DVD player sending the 5080 a 480i signal than from most BD players sending an "upscaled" signal. If he buys a BD player, he will probably get better results from SD discs if he uses it's 480i output rather than relying on the player to de-interlace and scale. The 5080 is very good at these things, and there are no current BD players that match the excellent SD processing offered by the Toshiba HD-AX2. Most likely the Oppo will, but it is awhile away.


Using a PS3 set upscaling to full and there is a substantial difference as opposed to not doing any upscaling at all.
 
#13,244 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wlock /forum/post/13388417


Got new 5080 and connected it to my mac - have got pictures but no audio. have bought various leads and connected them to various sockets but nothing seems to work.

How should i be connecting my mac, please help.

just get the cable adapter from apple for $20 and hook it up thru hdmi and you have sound and video

very easy
 
#13,245 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bschaen /forum/post/13393872


just get the cable adapter from apple for $20 and hook it up thru hdmi and you have sound and video

very easy

I believe the "translation" of this means the HDMI jack, like that of Apple TV, does not support sound with video (i.e., HDMI 1.1 or 1.2) as HDMI 1.3 does, unless you use Apple's "special" cable?


One looking at the differences 'tween Apple TV and Vudu wants to know.
 
#13,246 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoHD /forum/post/13392468


Hi all. What's the general consensus on buzz? My new 5010 definitely does buzz. It seems to be louder the closer to white the colors are. I can only hear it if I'm within about 6 feet of the screen and I don't have the audio on. My seating distance is well outside of the 6 foot "buzz zone", so should I even care? It just really bugs me that every time I get close to the TV to do something, I hear the buzz. Is it worth exchanging the set in hopes to get one that buzzes less or not at all? Is it even worth the hassle? Thanks!

Let me save you a lot of trouble. Over the past month I've exchanged my 110FD 3 times, yes 4 TV's! It is frustrating and as others have stated you're not guaranteed of getting a better unit. Finally on my 4th TV, the picture is pretty damn good and well...dare I say it, I've come to grips with the fact ALL THESE PLASMAS buzz to some extent. The difference in all 4 sets was the frequency of the buzz, room characteristics, TV placement and your seating area. If your picture is perfect, and you have a buzz from up to 6 feet, you my friend are doing well.

Saldisk
 
#13,247 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by PioBeer /forum/post/13388527


I am thinking about getting the pioneer 5010 from my local best buy and they recommend that I get an ISF calibration for an extra $300. However, when I call Pioneer to confirm that this can be done, they say that only the elites can be ISF calibrated, but the non-elites can get an RS232 calibration. What is an RS232 calibration and how much different is it than an ISF calibration? (BTW the folks at best buy still say the non-elites can get an ISF calibration anyway. Can anyone confirm that?)

Only Pioneer Elite Kuros have ISF Day/Night modes (which don't have to be Day & Night, they could be standard def and high def or high-def and black & White or any 2 things you want them to be). Adding an ISF Day/Night mode to a Pioneer Elite Kuro requires measurements and an RS-232 cable connected to a laptop used by the calibrator.


Non-Elite Kuros can be calibrated without the Day/Night modes by using measurements and the service menu.


You either missed something they were telling you or the person you were talking to was confused.
 
#13,248 ·
I just got my 5080 and while running the break-in DVD noticed that I have 1 flashing pixel on the white test pattern (upper left corner) and one dead pixel on the red test pattern (near the middle of the screen). Neither is visible from my distance when watching normal programming but it bugs me knowing that they're there. I'm debating exchanging it out for another one but am hesitant because mine has a January 2008 build date and the only two they have in stock were built in September 2007. Any input would be helpful.
 
#13,249 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by PioBeer /forum/post/13388527


I am thinking about getting the pioneer 5010 from my local best buy and they recommend that I get an ISF calibration for an extra $300. However, when I call Pioneer to confirm that this can be done, they say that only the elites can be ISF calibrated, but the non-elites can get an RS232 calibration. What is an RS232 calibration and how much different is it than an ISF calibration? (BTW the folks at best buy still say the non-elites can get an ISF calibration anyway. Can anyone confirm that?)

You will find owner calibration reports for non-Elite Kuro 1080p (5010 & 6010) sets in the flat panel list that is linked at the bottom of my post. UMR calibrated my 6010 Thursday night. I'll be posting a report for my calibration later today or early tomorrow.


I would not get a calibration from BB.
 
#13,250 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch /forum/post/13394317


I believe the "translation" of this means the HDMI jack, like that of Apple TV, does not support sound with video (i.e., HDMI 1.1 or 1.2) as HDMI 1.3 does, unless you use Apple's "special" cable?


One looking at the differences 'tween Apple TV and Vudu wants to know.

The "translation" is there is no HDMI jack on a Mac computer (unlike the Apple TV), so it is necessary to access sound separately. Typically, Macs have a DVI output, and DVI does not support sound. Most Macs have a digital audio jack which will provide digital audio via a toslink adapter and cable.
 
#13,251 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by saldisk1 /forum/post/13394437


Let me save you a lot of trouble. Over the past month I've exchanged my 110FD 3 times, yes 4 TV's! It is frustrating and as others have stated you're not guaranteed of getting a better unit. Finally on my 4th TV, the picture is pretty damn good and well...dare I say it, I've come to grips with the fact ALL THESE PLASMAS buzz to some extent. The difference in all 4 sets was the frequency of the buzz, room characteristics, TV placement and your seating area. If your picture is perfect, and you have a buzz from up to 6 feet, you my friend are doing well.

Saldisk

That's what I was thinking. I guess I'll just hold onto my current set. Thanks for the confirmation!
 
#13,253 ·
Reading all these posts about buzz makes we wonder about waiting for the LCD Kuro this fall.....what do people think about Kuro going LCD and how it will compare in quality?


Thanks for the link to the calibration profiles, I spent way too much time reading there...lol. But now I have a question that I didn't have before. First, I have a Sammie LED 56" rear projection tv, HSL5679W, one of the first gen of the LED's from Sammie, and the blacks look weird at times, not just washed out but waffle like...so that's the main reason I'm looking to upgrade, and it's about 9 feet from where we watch. Will the 60" plasma be "too big" for 9 feet or would I do better and downsize to the 50"? Will the plasma or the LCD be better for a very bright, sunlight room (with shades drawn the room is still very bright). I was reading about how the 60" doesn't look as good at closer ranges in some of the calibration threads I followed.


So back to LCD vs. Plasma....is there any LCD out there that is close to the current Kuro in quality, as I would suspect that that is where Kuro will probably be in the fall. But if I had to choose, which would be better for my bright room?...and how much better in quality over my Sammie LED?
 
#13,254 ·
Jeff Meier (AKA UMR) calibrated our Kuro 6010, and our 5.1 audio Thursday night. The results are great.

Millerwill, who has been at AVS since April, 2004 came down from Berkeley to watch Jeff work on our setup. Jim94025 came over Friday evening to see the final results. It's my impression that they both expect to be having Jeff work on their home theaters now.


Jeff offers several calibration options. This is a link to the option done on our system.

Advanced Home Theater Calibration


Jeff's first discovery was that our set wasn't as sharp as it should have been. The second, if I'm remembering right, was that, out of the box, it was a pretty good example of the 6010 Kuro. After Jeff completed his work on our 6010, he ran parts of some movies, and a demo HD-DVD.

WOW! On the hard copy Calibration Report that Jeff left with me, the changes didn't look like there was that much difference between before and after. To my untrained eye, the charts went from close to extremely close. When we started watching movies -- WOW!


The SD movie Charlotte Gray is one many people use to evaluate displays. In the opening credits there are fields of lavender streaming by a train window so fast all you see are clean streaks of color. Very clean streaks of color without a hint of blocking. When the credits are finished, a full screen shot of Cate Blanchett's face in closeup is amazing for it's wonderfull skin tones and very find detail. The same amazing skin tones are present in a love scene with her "airman". It's a shot of Cate's back -- just wonderfull. A third closeup of a man's face is also great, but not quite as enjoyable as Cate Blanchett.



Later in the film, there is a scene of a railroad sabatage at night where the faces have outstanding skin tones under dark conditions. The black levels are also great in this scene which shows moonlite on the tracks.


In other clips, including the HD-DVD version of Phantom of the Opera, and one of those extremely high quality demo disks, there was great color and detail in every nook and crany. There was some of the best yellow I've seen.


Our speakers are the second level reference models from Boston Accustic that I bought on close out (50% off) at CC. The front speakers originally went for about $400 each. The A/V is the Denon 3806, also purchased on close out, and recomended by Jeff as an upgrade. We have an Elemental Designs eD A3-300 subwoofer that was also recommended by Jeff as an upgrade. Added to that, also by Jeff, is the Behringer Feedback Destroyer which acts as a $99 parabolic equalizer for the sub.


The drum scene from House of Flying Daggers is a well known speaker test. There is no way I can convey how much better it sounds after calibration. From mush to clear, coherent, and well defined might be one way. Before I would detect the sub doing it's thing. After there was no way to know when the sub was active. There was vastly more detail with sharp strong attacks.


There is dialog at the beginning of Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King where I've had a problem understanding Gollum's lines. They are much easier for me to understand now.


Our room's worst feature is that there is no good place for surround speakers. Having Jeff expain the problem has caused my wife to change her mind. Because Jeff said so, ceiling speakers for the surrounds in our 5.1 setup are now a good idea. That's something that I had failed to achive on my own.



The only HDTV I've had a chance to watch has been Discovery Channel from Comcast. I can't say how much it's improved, but I'm sure the skin tones are better.


Our HD-DVD player is the Toshiba A30 with FW 1.3 installed.


As other's have reported, Jeff goes out of his way to explain what he is doing, and answer all questions. It was a pleasure having him in our home, and we hope that he is still willing, and able to travel to our area the next time we need something calibrated.


Thanks Jeff!


Questions answered 03/20/2008:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues /forum/post/13430397


Hello Htwaits or UMR, Any chance one of you guys can go into more detail on how much a difference the calibration made on the video side of things.

Keep in mind that I'm just a happy owner, and that I didn't ask UMR to explain everything he did.

Quote:
I know a couple scenes you said WOW, but what made the difference, color accuracy?

Skin tones, especially faces, are something we all spend a lot of time looking at. Green or red tint to face tones are bad. One WOW was for the skin tones produced by the 6010 after calibration. If the faces are right, everything else should follow. Accurate gray levels make color accuracy possible.

Quote:
You also said that sharpness is improved? Is their a special tweak that improves sharpness?

Before calibration my sharpness was set to -11. It's now set to -15. The finest line on UMR's test pattern was about twice as wide and soft before calibration.

Quote:
Any difference in shadow detail?

Yes, there is more of it, and the colors (faces again) look better. There was a red tone to grays that is gone now.

Quote:
Black levels?

I'm not positive, but I think there is less glow to the screen when the room is dark, and there is no signal. In any event the blacks convince me that they are black.

Quote:
And, was it really worth the difference strictly on the video?

Do you mean, "Would I pay for both, and be happy just doing the video?"



Let's put it this way, I was offered a free video calibration from some one who I know to be an outstanding video calibrator. I chose to pay UMR do both audio and video, and I'm very happy with the results.
 
#13,255 ·

Jeff Meier (AKA UMR) calibrated our Kuro 6010, and our 5.1 audio Thursday night. The results are great.


htwaits, now your are seeing and hearing what the rest of us that have had this done by a quality isf calibrator like jeff.



I think one important step in a quality calibration for or Kuros is did the calibrator use a puck and stick it on your screen. Im sure jeff would not use this but as we know you do not want anything attached to your screen.

When Doug(ISF Calibrated by doug@clearlyresolved.com ) did my 150fd noting was stuck to my screen. (btw you should add Doug to your list)
 
#13,256 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits /forum/post/13395377


Jeff Meier (AKA UMR) calibrated our Kuro 6010, and our 5.1 audio Thursday night. The results are great.

thanks for the report, nice write up. couple of questions, if you don't mind...


-was the display calibrated through the user menu controls alone, or in conjunction with service menu adjustments?


-was the audio calibrated with anything more than a test disc and an SPL meter?


from what i know about calibrations, it seems to me that an expert with the right (expensive?) tools is required to get the video part of it right, but a basic 5.1 audio calibration is something that most anybody can perform with a little research and a trip to radioshack. i'm just wondering if i'm off-base here.


thanks.
 
#13,258 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally /forum/post/13396182


htwaits, now your are seeing and hearing what the rest of us that have had this done by a quality isf calibrator like jeff.

That's true.



Jeff is the second outstanding calibrator I've had the pleasure of having work on a display for me.

Quote:
I think one important step in a quality calibration for or Kuros is did the calibrator use a puck and stick it on your screen. Im sure jeff would not use this but as we know you do not want anything attached to your screen.

You're right again. Jeff used a tripod in one case, and a hand held device in another case.

Quote:
(btw you should add Doug to your list)

Doug has been in the flat panel list since you posted your comments. I used his AVS user name.

Pioneer 8G Kuro:

Droptheremote for sillysally



Use the link at the bottom of my post.
 
#13,259 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-star /forum/post/13396264


-was the display calibrated through the user menu controls alone, or in conjunction with service menu adjustments?

With a non-Elite both the User Menu and the Service Menu need to be used.

Quote:
-was the audio calibrated with anything more than a test disc and an SPL meter?

Yes. A lot more. Check out UMR's web site for details.

Quote:
from what i know about calibrations, it seems to me that an expert with the right (expensive?) tools is required to get the video part of it right, but a basic 5.1 audio calibration is something that most anybody can perform with a little research and a trip to radioshack. i'm just wondering if i'm off-base here.

You're not even the ball park, or you might not even be in a baseball playing nation.



According to Jeff, and I agree completely, audio is much more complicated than video.


Quote:
thanks.

You're very welcome.
 
#13,260 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits /forum/post/13396421


That's true.



Jeff is the second outstanding calibrator I've had the pleasure of having work on a display for me.


You're right again. Jeff used a tripod in one case, and a hand held device in another case.


Doug has been in the flat panel list since you posted your comments. I used his AVS user name.

Pioneer 8G Kuro:

Droptheremote for sillysally



Use the link at the bottom of my post.

Ahh yes you do have him listed but that was when he did my 5010fd (non Elite) now i have a Elite Pro-150fd
and he also did my 150fd that i have now with the tripod and hand held device.
 
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