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The Official Pioneer 8G KURO Owner's Discussions Thread

3M views 18K replies 2K participants last post by  bigbadbob 
#1 ·
OK, first off, thanks to Roman@Invision for his friendly and fast service.
In the door for ~75%MSRP ain't too shabby either!


An unabashed black-level fan, I have been frustrated since replacing my first HDTV, a 2001 Sony XBR CRT. Many plasmas, LCD's, DLP's,and projectors later, I have landed one of these 8G's, mostly on the strength of this forum and it's like- minded (hello Mr.Harkness) folk. Was a bit skeptical of all the hype from trade shows and such,but hopeful none the less.


Anyway, I've had it (4280)running 4 hrs. now,both in filtered daylight conditions and now some night-time viewing and it does not dissapoint. I have it side by side with a 9G Panny 58 running the same source and having been self-calibrated with AVIA.

Naturally,the PIO is just out of the box, using standard setting for now.


Where to begin?


Universal HD-DVDs open with a starry space-like sky with planet earth in foreground-I have been known to count the stars in it to measure "blackness of space". I tried to take a picture of it, but was far too blurry to publish.

Suffice it to say though, the PIO is a new high, very near to CRT level black, as I remember it.


The one picture attatched is a night scene from the opening of SAT NITE LIVE.

Hopefully, it shows relative black level to the Panny , which may be the best plasma I have had . I know taking pictures like this is a crap-shoot but someone will ask for them anyway. I tried to keep the variables to a minimum.

I can take more if requested but please be patient as I test my new toy.


As far as the sidebars approaching the blackness of the frame, this guy comes pretty close -not quite a total blending, but closer than anything since CRT.


I expect to have an HD-DVD calibration disc by tomorrow, and will try to be better dialed in soon.


First impressions:


Very smooth, almost no dithering, unlike the Panny.


Pure whites,no grey whites here.


Plenty sharp and detailed , better than the 5070 I had.


Natural motion(120hz?) beats the heck out of any LCD I have owned.


Screen a bit more reflective than I thought, Elite will probably be better.


And of course, blacks to beat all ('cept maybe the 'ole CRT)


For the entry price , I think it's a winner.


Roman: Please reserve my 6010 in the fall!


Steve Longo
 
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#13,602 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S /forum/post/13477243


UMR...am I giving incorrect information in what I said? If I am, I will stop as I have given it more than once thinking it was correct.

No. I would say there is more to it than colors, but that is a major factor to an accurate picture. I do not believe the value of a calibration is a strong function of purchase price though. I have worked on many inexpensive systems that have benefited greatly. In my opinion it got them much better performance for the money in many cases than someone who spent more and did not have it calibrated. My pre and post purchase advice can also save someone my entire fee making the cost of the service moot.


If you notice our times are the same. Yours was not there when I wrote mine.
 
#13,603 ·
thanks for the response.


i guess my question is - say there are two 5010's side by side. do you not go into the menu and set each set at the same numbers? there has to be a quantifiable number for each different setting, right? or do you have to go in and test every 5010 and set them to different settings? it seems like once you do one, you'd just have a cheat sheet with "these are the optimal numbers for 5010's" and just pop in pop out.


am i wrong with this assumption? sorry, i know nothing about calibration except what i did with my AVIA disc on my WEGA.
 
#13,604 ·
I suppose for someone who lives and breathes AV, it would make sense to calibrate. Its almost their job to have the best PQ around...


for guys like me without dedicated rooms, lighting, etc..D-Nice is a godsend.


In fact, if D-Nice and yourself approached me and offered to calibrate my set for $x, I would choose D-Nice without hesitation.


He has shown so much by sharing his findings and results with all of us here at avsforum and never asked for a single penny in return. Sure, his equipment might not cost $24,000, yet the money he has saved all of us by giving us the right settings to adjust our tv's to is insurmountable.


What findings have you shared UMR? Im not making an example out of you...do not take my comments personally. This is by all means a business oriented site and every single one of your clients has given nothing but positive feedback. That in itself speaks marvels about your talents and knowledge.


Im a unix admin from 9-5, and in other forums and irc channels ive helped countless of new/young admins with issues ranging from sendmail confs to ltsp deployments, free of charge. If there was some pro help i could adding here i would be. Be fair with our community UMR. Dont put down our setups, or regard to our methods as ignorant. You owe alot to everyone here, not the other way around.


just my 2c.
 
#13,606 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/13477252


No. I would say there is more to it than colors, but that is a major factor to an accurate picture. I do not believe the value of a calibration is a strong function of purchase price though. I have worked on many inexpensive systems that have benefited greatly. In my opinion it got them much better performance for the money in many cases than someone who spent more and did not have it calibrated. My pre and post purchase advice can also save someone my entire fee making the cost of the service moot.


If you notice our times are the same. Yours was not there when I wrote mine.

I gotta question for ya, UMR: Is every TV out there "calibrate-able"? What I mean is... has there ever been a set that could NOT reach the 6500K color temp(or whatever you call it)? Is it possible that a set is so out of whack that even you couldnt get it "dialed -in"?


Or do all TVs "have it in them" so to speak?


Just curious
 
#13,607 ·
not all the 6010s, 5010s, and whatever TVs come to your doorstep with the same comparable picture for the settings.


my pro150 could be much different than someone else's, and even different than the one D-nice calibrated. Our default picture will be different from set to set even though all the controls are int he default positions.


using d-nice's settings on my 150, my colors seem very off.


also, along the whole light scale, your colors could be off.


a true calibrator will come in and be able to set the colors accruately to 6500 along the whole scale.


not only that, but best black level to not lose detail and not be washed out, as well as sharpness level to not over enhance the image, and not keep it out of focus.


also, each source you have connected will have a slightly different picture associated with it, and they can calibrate each source input to that you get the best picture, for each source.


changing each setting also has an affect on every other settings, so it requires a lot of backtracking and re-doing to get it jsut right, for each source, for each input.


and most TVs, don't have those controls in the regular menu, they are in the service menu.
 
#13,608 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits /forum/post/13474500


Thanks for the report. I've included it in the list of owner's who have had flat panels professionally calibrated. The two calibration lists are linked at the bottom of my post.


Enjoy.

Can add me to the list. Had my 110FD calibrated by Chad Billheimer out of Dayton, Ohio on Monday. I had previously used the settings from D-Nice with a few modifications for my room environment. In fact Chad mentioned it was one of the better pre-measurements he had seen for the Elite. He still spent the next four hours fine tuning my HDMI inputs for HD-DVD/Blu Ray and component for my rather dated Dish HD receiver. We ran some movies and I could notice the improvement. Second calibration from Chad and I was happy with the results.


One other comment for those that say using someone elses settings will get you close enough. Chad made the comment that my unit was one of the better in terms of light output and color out of the 15 or so Pioneer Plasmas he has calibrated. Samples vary even in the same line and model. Add individual room environment and it becomes more difficult to copy someone elses settings to your unit. My feeling is if I your spending the money for a top of the line Plasma, then spend few hundred more for a professionsl ISF calibration.
 
#13,611 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by briansemerick /forum/post/13477524


thanks for the response.


i guess my question is - say there are two 5010's side by side. do you not go into the menu and set each set at the same numbers? there has to be a quantifiable number for each different setting, right? or do you have to go in and test every 5010 and set them to different settings? it seems like once you do one, you'd just have a cheat sheet with "these are the optimal numbers for 5010's" and just pop in pop out.


am i wrong with this assumption? sorry, i know nothing about calibration except what i did with my AVIA disc on my WEGA.

No they are not set the same. There are quanitifiable reasons to have different settings.
 
#13,612 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey /forum/post/13478474


I gotta question for ya, UMR: Is every TV out there "calibrate-able"? What I mean is... has there ever been a set that could NOT reach the 6500K color temp(or whatever you call it)? Is it possible that a set is so out of whack that even you couldnt get it "dialed -in"?


Or do all TVs "have it in them" so to speak?


Just curious

There are many displays that do not meet my standards. If that is the case I do not work on them. If I am contacted to work on a display that I am unaware of this before I arrive I do not charge the client when this happens. For example if you have a failed display I do not charge.


When I know a product will not meet my standards I will not work on it.
 
#13,613 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 /forum/post/13477888


I suppose for someone who lives and breathes AV, it would make sense to calibrate. Its almost their job to have the best PQ around...


for guys like me without dedicated rooms, lighting, etc..D-Nice is a godsend.


In fact, if D-Nice and yourself approached me and offered to calibrate my set for $x, I would choose D-Nice without hesitation.


He has shown so much by sharing his findings and results with all of us here at avsforum and never asked for a single penny in return. Sure, his equipment might not cost $24,000, yet the money he has saved all of us by giving us the right settings to adjust our tv's to is insurmountable.


What findings have you shared UMR? Im not making an example out of you...do not take my comments personally. This is by all means a business oriented site and every single one of your clients has given nothing but positive feedback. That in itself speaks marvels about your talents and knowledge.


Im a unix admin from 9-5, and in other forums and irc channels ive helped countless of new/young admins with issues ranging from sendmail confs to ltsp deployments, free of charge. If there was some pro help i could adding here i would be. Be fair with our community UMR. Dont put down our setups, or regard to our methods as ignorant. You owe alot to everyone here, not the other way around.


just my 2c.


I would suggest you search my posts. Many of them contain suggestions on how to get the best picture or sound from your system. I am just not a fan of one set of settings fits all.
 
#13,614 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Loewen /forum/post/13476264


Kind of a shame, you buy the best consumer panel made, and then you don’t want to get it to its full potential.

I agree. My settings were never meant to replace a one on one calibration per someone who actually knows what they are doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/13477036


Here is a review from someone using the recommended settings. He is also a EE if you want to question his intelligence.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=8731


The benefit is much greater than a mere 5 to 15 percent. Based on what I find in peoples homes it is wishfull thinking that you are that close.

Based on what he said, his receive played more of a role in his PQ than my settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by briansemerick /forum/post/13477124


sorry, but i'm not understanding the reason you have to have someone actually come and calibrate your set. they're all made the same - couldn't you just set the settings to certain numbers? i'm sure there is a list of all the exact degrees and settings that are the best ones for each display out there on the net. or is there some magic hoohoo that the calibrater does that normal humans can't?

not trying to put down the calibraters, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Yes and no. If you took 2 Pioneer panels out of the box, applied the exact same settings and took some measurements they would vary 3% for the Elites and 5% for the non-Elites. During the first 150- 200 hours, if they played the exact same material all the time, that variation would not change. If they played different material (i.e. one using the break-in dvd and the other regular TV) that variation will start to expand. By how much? A few percentage points...but it would be dependent on what material was being played and settings used.


At the end of the day I Still recommend ISF calibration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 /forum/post/13477888


I suppose for someone who lives and breathes AV, it would make sense to calibrate. Its almost their job to have the best PQ around...


for guys like me without dedicated rooms, lighting, etc..D-Nice is a godsend.


In fact, if D-Nice and yourself approached me and offered to calibrate my set for $x, I would choose D-Nice without hesitation.


He has shown so much by sharing his findings and results with all of us here at avsforum and never asked for a single penny in return. Sure, his equipment might not cost $24,000, yet the money he has saved all of us by giving us the right settings to adjust our tv's to is insurmountable.


What findings have you shared UMR? Im not making an example out of you...do not take my comments personally. This is by all means a business oriented site and every single one of your clients has given nothing but positive feedback. That in itself speaks marvels about your talents and knowledge.


Im a unix admin from 9-5, and in other forums and irc channels ive helped countless of new/young admins with issues ranging from sendmail confs to ltsp deployments, free of charge. If there was some pro help i could adding here i would be. Be fair with our community UMR. Dont put down our setups, or regard to our methods as ignorant. You owe alot to everyone here, not the other way around.


just my 2c.

Thank you for the kind words, however, I did see your post before you edited it, and i would like to comment on that post.


Umr, is an excellent calibrator and contributes a lot to this forum. I highly doubt you would ever see any ISF calibrator provide settings beyond their clients. That's not good business. Yes, he does, at times, go over the top wit...as you say... "putting down" others setup (i.e. the PR-670...which does not provide any quantitive improvement in calibration accuracy, per the application he is using it for....and these are not my words...this is from the manufacturer or the PR-670)...but I don't think that should overshadow what he brings to AVS. His ISF experience and knowledge is invaluable and is an asset to this forum.


Now, I know umr and I do not agree on some items, but we both agree that with the Kuros, one should want 100% out of the panel. If others disagree, that is perfectly fine and is the reason I provide settings so that, at least they are getting a better picture than any factory preset.
 
#13,615 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/13480279


I agree. My settings were never meant to replace a one on one calibration per someone who actually knows what they are doing.


Based on what he said, his receive played more of a role in his PQ than my settings.


Yes and no. If you took 2 Pioneer panels out of the box, applied the exact same settings and took some measurements they would vary 3% for the Elites and 5% for the non-Elites. During the first 150- 200 hours, if they played the exact same material all the time, that variation would not change. If they played different material (i.e. one using the break-in dvd and the other regular TV) that variation will start to expand. By how much? A few percentage points...but it would be dependent on what material was being played and settings used.


At the end of the day I Still recommend ISF calibration.


Thank you for the kind words, however, I did see your post before you edited it, and i would like to comment on that post.


Umr, is an excellent calibrator and contributes a lot to this forum. I highly doubt you would ever see any ISF calibrator provide settings beyond their clients. That's not good business. Yes, he does, at times, go over the top wit...as you say... "putting down" others setup (i.e. the PR-670...which does not provide any quantitive improvement in calibration accuracy, per the application he is using it for....and these are not my words...this is from the manufacturer or the PR-670)...but I don't think that should overshadow what he brings to AVS. His ISF experience and knowledge is invaluable and is an asset to this forum.


Now, I know umr and I do not agree on some items, but we both agree that with the Kuros, one should want 100% out of the panel. If others disagree, that is perfectly fine and is the reason I provide settings so that, at least they are getting a better picture than any factory preset.

And calibration is best served: when new, or 1 year-old, at what point-and how often? My 5010 is on its way.
 
#13,616 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KapoostaKid /forum/post/13480386


And calibration is best served: when new, or 1 year-old, at what point-and how often? My 5010 is on its way.

For the absolute best....after 400 hours and minor recalibration every 1.5 - 2.5 years after that.
 
#13,618 ·
r3zon8:


You don't seem to be aware of UMR's history here at AVS. For years he was the authority on how to get the most out of Sony's LCD RPTV sets. He provided extensive threads on how to modify and calibrate those models to get the most out of them. He shared all that information with anyone who took the trouble to read his threads.


He is now doing calibrations professionally. It's different, as any professional calibrator will tell you. It's fine if you don't want professional calibration. It's not something you or anyone else needs to defend.


Enjoy.
 
#13,619 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KapoostaKid /forum/post/13480430


Thanks! Any recommendations in NJ?

Eliab @ avical

Umr @ accucal (only the backup list is available for April)

Gregg Loewen @ lionav
 
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