Hauppauge WinTV HD PVR (H.264) screenshot

[sleonard]

Currently only 1 HD-PVR is supported per system.



Jared Egan

Technical Support
Hauppauge Computer Works
New York Headquarters

Originally Posted by killervette

this is very bad news! i was going use 2-3. I asked if more than one could be used. I guess i wont be getting these after all.

I asked this same question in email and their reply to me was that the driviers DO support multiple devices. I think they need to get their story straight. (and quickly before they ship the 3 that I pre-ordered)

S

[hubick]

Originally Posted by frankinla

Well, if you got all that ram, why don't you just run 32 bit vista in a virtual machine just for the sage tv?

Two copies of Vista running? Gah! License costs for Vista and VMware (I'm all legal). Complexity. I know VMware supports USB2 device proxying, but HD Video from the HD-PVR would be a real stress test for that - as well as writing out the encoded files through their IO layer. I have a separate PVR box today I would rather use - but I want to reduce the number of computers and just have a single HTPC for all of it. Most of all though, it's just the principle of the thing.

[killervette]

Originally Posted by sleonard

I asked this same question in email and their reply to me was that the driviers DO support multiple devices. I think they need to get their story straight. (and quickly before they ship the 3 that I pre-ordered)

S

lol....i preordered one to try, but i just cancelled until it comes out and people try more than one. What software are you going to using with it?

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by killervette

lol....i preordered one to try, but i just cancelled until it comes out and people try more than one. What software are you going to using with it?

SageTV. How did you cancel your pre-order? (just in case I chicken out and wait for someone else to be a multi-device guinea pig)

S

[killervette]

Originally Posted by sleonard

SageTV. How did you cancel your pre-order? (just in case I chicken out and wait for someone else to be a multi-device guinea pig)

S

i just emailed sales. hopefully they respond

[zr600]

Any news from them?..................Brian

[frankinla]

Originally Posted by killervette

lol....i preordered one to try, but i just cancelled until it comes out and people try more than one. What software are you going to using with it?

doh... seriously, you should always wait before you buy a new product. V1.0 is usually just the first post beta beta. I waited almost 10 months before jumping to vista, and by the time I did it was to the point where I just really didn't understand what everyone was bitchin about.

That said, someone has to go first, and I would not put too much weight on forum speculation and "insider" emails. Don't forget all the speculative posts on these forums about our great future with cable card... Turns out to have been a bust, particularly with SDV threatening to reduce the functionality of expensive cable card boxes to little more than glorified QAM tuners in the coming months!

There are a number of unanswered questions regarding this device. Here are just a few that are important to me:

* Vista Support - I can imagine a few work arounds, but I would just as soon keep it simple.
* System requirements - Sure it has a hardware encoder, but thats just the beginning. How will all this actually run in real world situations?
* Video quality - This would be the deal breaker for me. It's the big unknown at this point.

Getting your panties in bunch over a couple of supposed emails from tech support (some of whom are challenged simply by the English language) is premature and off the mark.

The 64 Bitters on the forums sound like the Mac users of old... "We don't get the good games!" "We don't get the good software!" "We don't et the good hardware!" "We don't get good support!" I know, because I had had many Macs in my day. Further, the work station I'm typing on right now is XP 64!

Hear this... YOU CHOSE TO BE AN ICONOCLAST WHEN YOU GOT 64 BIT. BE A MAN! DEAL WITH IT!

[zr600]

I am going to be a man and deal with it, if it doesn't work with 64 bit then I will cancel my order it is as simple as that! Or maybe we should all wait a year and then buy one................Brian

[cybrsage]

Originally Posted by frankinla

There are a number of unanswered questions regarding this device. Here are just a few that are important to me:

* Vista Support - I can imagine a few work arounds, but I would just as soon keep it simple.

This one has already been answered. It will ship without Vista Media Center support (no integration, cannot use Microsoft Remote, etc). It will ship with a software product which works on Vista, though.

[AnthonyB]

Why in the hell would they limit it to one HD-PVR per system? That's kinda messed up. I was going to buy at least 2.

[zaphod7501]

Originally Posted by AnthonyB

Why in the hell would they limit it to one HD-PVR per system? That's kinda messed up. I was going to buy at least 2.

It could be a bandwidth issue. USB is shared bandwidth as I understand it. We don't know how much bandwidth the device uses after it re-encodes to h264 as it passes to the PC. That would also account for the 13.5Mbps bitrate used for encoding that some think is a little low. You might not be able to have simultaneous captures from two devices without hiccups.

[chriscic]

A lot of folks seem out-of-sorts over the dual-tuner issue. I can certainly understand some disappointment but personally I'm more laid-back about the issue. This is a brand new product class from a company that is not exactly a software powerhouse. Things will get better over time but you'd can't expect too much out of the box as an early adopter (which I'm usually not, but making an exception in this case).

I suspect this thing will support dual-tuners via Sage, BeyondTV etc, although that remains to be seen. If not, then I expect within a few months it will.

As someone else mentioned, all hinges on the recording quality. If it's not up to snuff, then the rest doesn't matter. If the quality is good, the rest will get worked out.

[ChrisL01]

Originally Posted by zaphod7501

It could be a bandwidth issue. USB is shared bandwidth as I understand it. We don't know how much bandwidth the device uses after it re-encodes to h264 as it passes to the PC. That would also account for the 13.5Mbps bitrate used for encoding that some think is a little low. You might not be able to have simultaneous captures from two devices without hiccups.

I'm rather sure you can, after all people stockpile USB2 ATSC tuners which have a higher possible bitrate. OEMs can offer 4x CableCARD tuners which all connect via USB and can all function at the same time.

Chris

[frankinla]

Originally Posted by cybrsage

This one has already been answered. It will ship without Vista Media Center support (no integration, cannot use Microsoft Remote, etc). It will ship with a software product which works on Vista, though.

Actually, I was thinking of something a little bit more brut force...

Since I almost never watch anything live, the HD-PVR doesn't have to be on my VMC machine. I have an old box I use for bit torrents. Was thinking of loading some software, preferably free, but I may try sage again, an having the recordings put into a shared folder. Then I can view them as videos in VMC.

That's my VMC Plan B

Does the arcsoft software have a US program guide?

[frankinla]

Originally Posted by zaphod7501

It could be a bandwidth issue. USB is shared bandwidth as I understand it. We don't know how much bandwidth the device uses after it re-encodes to h264 as it passes to the PC. That would also account for the 13.5Mbps bitrate used for encoding that some think is a little low. You might not be able to have simultaneous captures from two devices without hiccups.

What ChrisL said, and remember USB 2.0 is 400 Mbps. You are more likely to be limited by disk write bandwidth as you are by usb bandwidth.

[zaphod7501]

Just proposing some possibilities. Real world capabilities don't always match specifications. Personally, I've always had momentary glitches with USB hard drives. It doesn't matter with file transfers (the system will wait), but real time capture requires "0" missed frames. There had been a comment somewhere that indicated problems with a bitrate higher than the 13.5 Mbps.

Hauppauge drivers and software also tend to incorporate a high CPU load even on ATSC stream capture. Their HVR1600 uses a lot more CPU than a MyHD when capturing HD. 25% vs 5% on my system even recording in the background with GB-PVR.

Hauppauge software also doesn't do background recording well either and often not at all. Their software usually has a window open. That image is produced with software decoding and h264 is pretty CPU intensive. There is a hardware encoder but no hardware decoder (as far as I can tell). The only way multiple devices are possible is with background (no windowed image) recording: at least as far as I can imagine.

Hauppauge advertises "TV on Your PC" and their native software almost always has a view window open. They usually leave background recording to third party developers. I'm guessing that their drivers may allow multiple devices but their software only supports one because of that philosophy. Their PVR500 and HV1600 both have independent tuners that can only be run simultaneously using third party software. Since I don't think any developers got more than one device for testing, it would have been pretty hard to verify operation of multiple devices. (sub at GB-PVR said he only received one)

[vladd]

Also, remember that most HD broadcasts are 19.2 Mbps or less (usually 13-17) MPEG2. This is recording H.264 and the comparable quality bitrate is actually about 6-9 Mbps.

There's not much point in using this device to rip BluRays after all.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by sleonard

I asked this same question in email and their reply to me was that the driviers DO support multiple devices. I think they need to get their story straight. (and quickly before they ship the 3 that I pre-ordered)

S

My guess is the bundled software only supports one HD PVR, but the drivers support multiple HD PVRs. This is typical of Hauppauge, their included software only supports a single device but 3rd parties (SageTV, et all) are able to use as many as you can stick in a system.

This would make both answers correct, yes the drivers support multiple HD PVRs but only one is "supported" (meaning with their software) per system.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by stanger89

My guess is the bundled software only supports one HD PVR, but the drivers support multiple HD PVRs. This is typical of Hauppauge, their included software only supports a single device but 3rd parties (SageTV, et all) are able to use as many as you can stick in a system.

This would make both answers correct, yes the drivers support multiple HD PVRs but only one is "supported" (meaning with their software) per system.

stanger89 is rigth the drivers do support multiple HD PVR as for I know of and that hasn't change to date.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by hubick

Grrrr, booo! What year is it? How long have 64-bit CPU's been shipping now? You can buy 8GB of RAM for far less than the price of the HD-PVR.

I will now be forced to waste a chunk of the RAM in my HTPC to run 32bit. When you take into account how much RAM Vista (basically required for Blu-Ray playback) will suck up on it's own, and then add on Java based SageTV running to record in the background, and then if I want to play a video game from the HTPC on my HDTV at the same time - things don't look so pretty in 32bit land.

Dear Hauppauge, please look to Creative Labs for a good example of how providing crappy driver support for your product can come back to haunt you when alternatives become available to the consumer.

8Gbit is point less unless you are planing on run a hard core data base server in fact anything over 2 GBit is over kill any way for avg user and beside that it a well know fact that both 32 and 64 bit OS share the same problem with Memory limitations over 2Gbit.
Look how long it took them to bring a pure 32bit OS even know we had 32bit CPU back in 1985 anyone one re-call the old 386 16MHz however it took all most 10 years just come out half bake Win95 16/32bit OS even knowing Windows NT 3.1 and OS/2 Warp was a 32bit OS which was all ready out 1 year before then so rigth now as for 64bit in tell it become more of mainstream adoption you have wait for 64 bit drivers.
You and I both know there are very few ture blue 64bit apps and games for Vista 64x OS.
Right now the 64Bit OS is a waste of time maybe in few more years.

[zr600]

Thats why I have 64bit vista, I want my puter to last more than a few years...............Brian

[hubick]

Originally Posted by SHS

You and I both know there are very few ture blue 64bit apps and games for Vista 64x OS.

Just because each 32bit application can't (or doesn't need to) address more than 4GB doesn't mean it's not valuable for the system as a whole to be able to manage more than 4GB among all applications.

[mindbender9]

I apologize in advance for asking what seems to be a dumb question, but how exactly do you burn the video streams (*.ts format?) to a DVD?

I know that the unit comes with bundled software (ArcSoft TotalMedia Extreme), but how do you use it? Are you able to burn the video streams to a 4.7GB DVD?

Wow, that was more that one dumb question, wasn't it?

So does anyone know how to use this unit? All I want to do is burn video feeds from a SA8300HD DVR to a 4.7GB DVD. So how do you do this? Thanks!

[Beefcake]

8GB = 8 Giga BYTES not bits

8 bits = 1 BYTE.

Note the capital B for Byte and lower case b for bit.

If I had a nickel for everytime I saw this confusion...I'd be rich.

[zr600]

I emailed Hauppauge tech about the 64 bit drivers and here is their response back, not sure if it helps???

Hello,

At the moment the unit has no 64bit driver yet, but it should have drivers upon its release.

regards,

Jerry Henriquez
jhenriquez@hauppauge.com
Technical Support
Hauppauge Computer Works
New York

[chriscic]

That makes sense. There are no 64-bit drivers yet, but they are going to be ready when it ships two days from now...

[ak3883]

Just an FYI, I emailed them last week, and they said they hope to ship all pre-orders by the 2nd or 3rd week of May.

But another poster said they told him May 1st still, so who knows.

We have a thread on this device over in HDTV Recorders, most of the discussion is about whether or not it will honor CGMS-A copy flag. If it does, that will be a dealbreaker for many.

If it does not, then what kind of protection is there over component? None. So it should be able to capture 5C'ed copy-once material from a DVHS deck, I'm hoping.

[vladd]

Originally Posted by ak3883

But another poster said they told him May 1st still, so who knows.

I never said they told me that directly. It's on the front page of their website:

New Product!
HD PVR:
Record high definition satellite and cable TV to your PC!
The new HD PVR allows you to record your favorite high definition TV programs from any component video equipped HD set top box. You can also create Blu-ray DVDs from your TV recordings, using standard DVD disks.
Shipping will start May 1, 2008.
HD PVR price: $249

[SHS]

Originally Posted by ak3883

Just an FYI, I emailed them last week, and they said they hope to ship all pre-orders by the 2nd or 3rd week of May.

But another poster said they told him May 1st still, so who knows.

We have a thread on this device over in HDTV Recorders, most of the discussion is about whether or not it will honor CGMS-A copy flag. If it does, that will be a dealbreaker for many.

If it does not, then what kind of protection is there over component? None. So it should be able to capture 5C'ed copy-once material from a DVHS deck, I'm hoping.

Only MCE honor CGMS-A

[SHS]

Originally Posted by mindbender9

I apologize in advance for asking what seems to be a dumb question, but how exactly do you burn the video streams (*.ts format?) to a DVD?

I know that the unit comes with bundled software (ArcSoft TotalMedia Extreme), but how do you use it? Are you able to burn the video streams to a 4.7GB DVD?

Wow, that was more that one dumb question, wasn't it?

So does anyone know how to use this unit? All I want to do is burn video feeds from a SA8300HD DVR to a 4.7GB DVD. So how do you do this? Thanks!

In ArcSoft TotalMedia Extreme you can burn the test clip I posted, Burn in as AVCHD that if your Blur-ray Player support it or have build a real Blu-ray Disc, I know that PS3 dose work with AVCHD so long you have latest update or if you have HD-DVD Player try that.
Other option are Nero Vision which I have alway found to be lame software and I would say my Favorite Authoring software would be Ulead DVD MovieFactory Plus 6 with Plugin HD Power Pack but it dosen't support AAC Audio.
Personally I think the ArcSoft Authoring software is a joke.