Send HD audio and video to any ATSC enabled TV in your house from your HTPC

[bdraw]

I've been waiting for something like this every since I got into HD 5 years ago. This new product accepts VGA and 5.1 over USB and will send HD with 5.1 to any QAM enabled TV in your house and all for $500. We no longer need our loud HTPC in our living room, it can live in the office now.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/01...-to-your-hdtv/

Startup ZeeVee isn't out to flood the market with yet another ho hum media streamer, it's out to change the way you look at 'em. The June-bound ZvBox ($499) plugs into one's computer (VGA) and sends on-screen content to every TV in the house over existing coaxial cabling. Put simply, the unit enables users to view any kind of internet media right on their television with no subscription fees or wireless dropouts. Aside from bringing internet video over, users can also access any other computer application (web browser, built-in DVD player, etc.) right from their set. In order to handle said tasks, the box comes bundled with a wireless ZvRemote / Zviewer, but those comfortable with managing their own desktop won't be bothered with any fancy interfaces. Suffice to say, those looking to easily pipe their Media PC recordings to the family TV will certainly find reason to take notice. Head on the past the break for a few more details.

Put simply, the ZvBox ports your computer desktop to every HDTV in your house by creating its own channel (RF) that is picked up by the tuner packed within your set(s). Here's a few tidbits to clarify how the thing actually works:

* PC's content piped through VGA, which is then sent through coaxial cabling to every TV in your home
* VGA pass-through ensures your PC monitor continues to operate normally
* Audio (including Dolby Digital 5.1) is inputted via USB
* No equipment is needed at the TV end for reception; all signals are received from the TV's internal tuner
* Users can opt to view their unadulterated desktop
* Otherwise, the Zviewer lays out customizable launch icons to take you directly to Netflix, Hulu, ABC.com, YouTube, MOJO, KoldCast or any other destination you choose
* Users have total control of their PC from their television; watching back PVR recordings, playing DVDs, viewing photos, etc. is all possible
* ZvBox possesses no fan, thus there's no noise
* ZvRemote controls volume / channels, has built-in touchpad for interfacing with PC
* Optional ZvKeyboard coming this summer (no price disclosed)
* Shipments will begin in June, consumers can pre-order exclusively from Amazon beforehand

Quite honestly, this looks like the device to bridge the gap between living room TVs and internet / OTA-accessible content. Rather than being locked into material available on a number of other STBs, the ZvBox is only limited by the amount of content accessible via the web, your computer's DVD player and your PC-based OTA TV tuner. Needless to say, that's an awful lot of media. We'll be getting our hands on one and giving you the rundown just as soon as we can.

[kapone]

A couple of things:

- VGA = No HDCP. Might have quite a few issues with HD/HD DVD/BD etc.
- 5.1 USB = no HD audio (DTS-MA etc), just DD/DTS
- Control - How do you control? Let's assume my HTPC is running Media Center, and I use this to pipe it to TVs in my house. How do I use a remote to change channels?
- Related to above, even assuming I could control things "somehow", I'll need one of these AND one PC per TV, assuming I want different content on different TVs (which is one of the most common scenarios). At $500 AND a PC per TV, why wouldn't I just have an HTPC at each TV?

Looks interesting though.

[tsb]

I don't see anything of value in this product.

[rockytt]

No equipment is needed at the TV end for reception; all signals are received from the TV's internal tuner

Why are people saying you need to have a HTPC on each tv in the house - that's kind of the point of this thing.
Have one HTPC and just connect this to the coax that's probably running througout your house. Put your tvs on channel 3 and watch whatever's on the HTPC in the office. You can control the media functions from the included remote -
I can see how this isn't for everybody, but c'mon if you had 5 tvs in the house (I don't, but) you'd need either a) 6 networked htpcs, or b) 1 htpc and this. Perhaps not quite as convienent as the 6 computers in one sense, but maintenence/upgrades would be a LOT easier.

[kapone]

"You can control the media functions from the included remote"

*cough* - and how would you do that?? There's no IR running from the TV back to the device or your HTPC.

As far as one HTPC/TV, I said that with a *, meaning you wanted "different" content at each TV., vs the same content on every TV.

[ilkhan4]

Originally Posted by kapone

*cough* - and how would you do that?? There's no IR running from the TV back to the device or your HTPC.

It looks like it comes with a RF remote/receiver combo that connects to a USB port on the PC.

Really, if it does everything it says it does, this is really cool. It's basically a HD QAM modulator which is what everyone has been clamoring for for awhile now. It means no new wires for whole-house A/V distribution. Yes, it's only one source, but it's still a step in the right direction. It says it scans for an open channel when it starts up, so I would imagine you could use more than one at a time.

Plus, with something like a HDFury, you could connect your HDCP'd DVI or HDMI directly up to the thing. Pretty cool.

[tsb]

exactly, kinda the same as adding a powered HDMI splitter and running cables to all your displays

it's nice, but there isn't a good way to control it unless VMC gets a BT/WiFi remote
then of course there's the content issue you noted before

[mslide]

Originally Posted by tsb

exactly, kinda the same as adding a powered HDMI splitter and running cables to all your displays

That's what I would do. I put these devices into the media extender category. Neat idea, but not good enough for me to spend the money on them when I can run wires and accomplish the same thing and more.

[Suntan]

Wasn’t your man on here a couple weeks back asking about the acceptance of something like this?

Anyway, for the cost of this thing you could buy 1 Sage Server license and 2 Sage HD boxes. Therefore you could have 3 TVs running *different* shows at the same time.

At $100 I could see a use for this. At $500? No thanks.

-Suntan

[rockytt]

exactly, kinda the same as adding a powered HDMI splitter and running cables to all your displays

Or even better, you probably already have coax running to each of the tvs.
btw-the hdmi splitters i've priced were pretty darn expensive in their own right. If I could find a reasonably priced 4x4 I'd be a happy camper-

[tsb]

you can find what you're looking for on monoprice and many other sites for around $100
add in 4 100ft cables and you are looking at @ $500 total for something much more future proof than this product

[rockytt]

no - you can't find a 4x4 hdmi switcher/splitter for $100 on monoprice or anywhere else. MP lists a 4x2 for $90 - but they're out of stock.

In addition (playing devil's advocate, not trying to get you to purchase the product , you may buy the cables for that price, but how much is the installation when you have to have somebody run the 4 cables? Here in SoCal that could easily be another $600-$1000 on top of your $500. (I realize that the 4x splitter that you're talking about works for this analogy, so I'll concede the $100 price here - but it's not what I was talking about in my post - 4x4)

[mslide]

Originally Posted by rockytt

no - you can't find a 4x4 hdmi switcher/splitter for $100 on monoprice or anywhere else. MP lists a 4x2 for $90 - but they're out of stock.

In addition (playing devil's advocate, not trying to get you to purchase the product , you may buy the cables for that price, but how much is the installation when you have to have somebody run the 4 cables? Here in SoCal that could easily be another $600-$1000 on top of your $500. (I realize that the 4x splitter that you're talking about works for this analogy, so I'll concede the $100 price here - but it's not what I was talking about in my post - 4x4)

Getting something like a 4x4 brings you into a different realm of possibilities and it's not really fair to compare the cost of that solution with this product.

When people here say run wires, I think they are saying that they would do it themselves. At least, that's what I meant. If you need to hire someone, then I agree, it might not be cost effective.

[egarrard]

Originally Posted by tsb

I don't see anything of value in this product.

Some folks may see some. I bet the makers wind up wishing they had named it "Porn2Go". It would sell more.

[klipsch]

$500 with lack of features?

I would much rather build another HTPC or buy a popcorn hour and hook them up to the media server via ethernet

[rockytt]

Getting something like a 4x4 brings you into a different realm of possibilities and it's not really fair to compare the cost of that solution with this product

Yup - I agreed with you in my post

so I'll concede the $100 price here

no worries-

[diogen]

I think you should just forget about this device when talking hidef: it uses VGA; it supports 1080i max;
it seems to be doing real-time MPEG-2 encoding of what's on the PC screen (!?)...
No need to compare to HDMI runs.

Looks like a solution in search for a problem.

Diogen.

[kapone]

Originally Posted by diogen

Looks like a solution in search for a problem.

Ah...that is the PERFECT paradigm I was looking for to describe this.

[mikemav]

I felt the same way a few minutes ago seeing this on my Engadget feed. Eww, that's going to degrade the video signal. Eww, that's not going to do HDMI or next-gen HD audio formats. Then I thought about it for a second. This box is creating your own HDTV broadcast channel in your home. I needed to let that sink in.

It's QAM, at the highest resolution and highest audio format currently being broadcast OTA. So, yes, it comes with a 150' range RF remote with trackpad built in to control the PC, which they say can support up to 8 total remotes or RF keyboards (one each comes with the package.) I just read the webpage. It looks like a typical Interlink style keyboard and RF mouse, but in a larger more AV remote style. Anyway, PC control with that may or may not prove to be awkward depending on the remote. Even if so, that's what VNC and a laptop are for, IMHO. I remote control my HTPC now with my MacBook over VNC. Not hard, I'm sure a lot of you do this.

No, what this beauty does is make sure I don't need an RGB matrix switcher or distribution amplifier, hundreds if not thousands of feet of mini-high-res RGBHV cabling, BNC connectors, BNC to RCA adapters, etc....

Let me tell you why I know that. I did it. I work for a pro-AV integrator- we do systems for boardrooms, conference rooms, VTC suites, auditoriums, etc... So having access to these kinds of things and designing these systems, I have an NEC ISS-6020 switcher for 5 RGB or VGA inputs and 4 outputs (or something like that.) I have an HTPC on the main level. It goes to an Extron RGB460 PC interface to amplify the signal for longer cable runs and break it out into RGBHV wiring. That runs to the basement switcher, which has RGBHV runs out to 4 screens in my house.

Let me tell you, it's a pain in the ass. The wiring is expensive and pretty fragile. The long cable runs make the signal degraded quite a bit on the longer destinations. Every time I've brought a source directly to the display it is a drastic difference in video performance compared to all that wiring, switching, etc... Plus, more points of failure and to control.

Their solution would allow me to see a display of my PC with the same resolution and audio "limits" as I enjoy watching Lost or The Super Bowwl (oops, do I owe them cash now? Nope, extra w in there, whew!)

So okay, there are limitations. But only for the secondary rooms, which are now VASTLY simplified wiring-wise. I have coax to every room. The builder put it in. It works and is terminated properly. If I can take my HTPC and leave it connected AS IT IS NOW in my main family room theater, with full next-gen format 7.1 glory, but also be able to take the mainstream content like my hundreds of DVDs, Media Center recordings and video library, and everything else and send it out to ALL my other rooms at once just by tuning my HDTV to my own new personal HDTV channel in my house, it's a win win to me. Get rid of thousands of feet of other cabling, switchers, and complication and headache. If I want a little headache, I suppose you could even put this on the output of a remote control switcher if you want to show other VGA sources like Xbox 360 or PS3 (is there a PS3 VGA adapter? I know there is for the 360.)

Look, I'm not at all affiliated with these guys and just read the press release. In fact I'm home sick hopped up on Dayquil so I'm a bit loopy! But I think these guys might have a very creative idea here. It would be nice if the remote was also IR learning and could therefore control the HDTV as well, maybe even a receiver too. Yeah, I also wish it was $299, but it was a lot more than $499 to do what I did, and this has more capability (for most of my content) with way less complication.

One thing I'd like to know is: what if the PC does playback something in an unsupported format, like DTS or DolbyHD, or 1080p? Does the signal just not get sent? It would be ideal if this was a Swiss Armmy (see Super Bowwl) knife style device that could also convert unsupported formats to ATSC/QAM supported, but a lot of that can be done in FFDShow or by streaming software for those more advanced users. It would be useful to know what happens though when playing something outside it's standard?

Anyway, there's my many cents. If I pull the trigger and order one I'll let you know, but with all this here already, it's like adding another pet to a heard of cats to put another AV device in my system! We'll see. A full system bypass may be in order. I'll cc my wife on this, (as supportive as she is of my insanity), she'll like that concept!

[vladd]

This device will not work with "any ATSC enabled" TV. It needs a QAM enabled TV.

Also, the only real benefit I can see with this is for people like the developer of GBPVR and some of the MediaPortal developers who live in countries that don't have QAM. It would give them the ability to have in-house testing of QAM capture cards. Definitely a limited market.

Another may be something like a college campus or school where you want to broadcast a single channel to multiple dorms/classrooms. Definitely not their intended market.

That said, I really want this toy!

[Briands]

Couldn't this be used to capture analog HD from a STB and record it via any old QAM capture card. I think this is a good thing. Of course the Hauppaug device will beat it on price and simplicity.
Oh, and you need to convert the component to RGBHV first (though it may be possible for this hardware to do that conversion with a firmware update).

[ilkhan4]

Originally Posted by Briands

Couldn't this be used to capture analog HD from a STB and record it via any old QAM capture card. I think this is a good thing. Of course the Hauppaug device will beat it on price and simplicity.
Oh, and you need to convert the component to RGBHV first (though it may be possible for this hardware to do that conversion with a firmware update).

You can convert DVI/HDMI to VGA with a HDFury.

The problem with using a set top box is that you won't get the audio (since it uses USB). I'm sure that's probably why they did it that way.

[bdraw]

I had a chance to talk to an Engineer from ZeeVee and he answered many of my questions.

They see this as a 1.0 product and understand it won't be everything to everyone, but they plan to add functionality moving forward. For example, they want to support more inputs, component, toslink etc. They plan to make it work with ATSC as well as QAM to suite your needs. They understand that people will want to use something like with a normal STB rather than with a computer.

They chose to focus on this one particular function right now, but have lots of idea and an aggressive release schedule, so there are lots of possibilities.

He also told me they chose USB for audio, because the device is already being configured, updated and controlled via the RF remote with USB, so why add another cable for audio? Advanced codecs aren't supported because TVs don't support them.

As for unsupported resolutions. The resolution is limited by the QAM spec, and if your PC display doesn't support the same resolutions (720,1080i for example) it won't work at the same time as HDTV. The reverse is also true, but they can add data to the signal heading to the TV, so if your PC display is 800x600 and your TV doesn't support it, it will add black bars to make the resolution work on the TV.

This isn't a 100% replacement for HDMI, but if you want to move all your equipment to your closet and be able to access it on any TV in the house, then this is a pretty sweet deal, since you don't have to run expensive cables.

[antishock]

Thank you Ben! Why wasn't that posted at engadget?

[ilovejedd]

The device is still in its infancy and for the current limited feature-set, is extremely expensive at $500. Then again, I checked prices for professional QAM modulators and those are way more expensive than this so I guess the price can be considered reasonable based on manufacturing cost. Unfortunately, that doesn't really matter to your average consumer.

When the ZvBox can do multiple inputs distributed on multiple (unused) RF channels, then it would be a viable alternative to having multiple HTPCs and/or network media players around the house. Until then, the Popcorn Hour is available for pre-order at $179 a piece and 1000ft of bulk Cat5e cable is $63.75 from MonoPrice.

I'd love to get whole house distribution via RF, too. If and when the ZvBox grows up a little, I'd take a look at it, again.

[bdraw]

Some people can't run wires. I can, but even though I can, there are many things that can't send HD across a single cable to any TV in the house without another STB in every room.

[SilverBlade]

No HDMI, No HDCP, No DTS-HD/MA/any other HD audio..

This thing is only good for one place: the landfill.

[mikemav]

Originally Posted by SilverBlade

No HDMI, No HDCP, No DTS-HD/MA/any other HD audio..

This thing is only good for one place: the landfill.

Okay, I have 8 rooms wired for free by the builder where I could now get my HTPC for 75% of the content I have (minus the HD-audio stuff) with this ONE box for $500. Show me how to do that with HDMI?

Or do you want to buy a PS3, 360, or HTPC for every room? And set them all up... I don't. I'd rather just tune to a new HDTV channel I'm creating the content for, on every HDTV I plug into my simple RG6 cabling (now and in the future), and be happy with my 1080i or 720p with 5.1 audio. In the main room, I've got all the newest goodies. Now I can have all the other rooms access my content too. It's like your own hotel VOD system. For $500. Landfill is a little idiotic I think..

[stanger89]

This thread just proves to me once again that extenders are the future



SageTV + STX-HD100s FTW!

[diogen]

Originally Posted by mikemav

It's like your own hotel VOD system. For $500.

Exactly! Very good deal!
But do you need it? If you do - it's for you.
Remember: everybody watches the same program at the same time!

Diogen.