Hauppauge WinTV HD PVR (H.264) screenshot

[skylab]

I received the HD-PVR about a week ago and thought I would share my experiences.

Previously I had been recording to my PC via and OTA capture card. I would edit out the commercials using hdtvtompeg then transcode to m2ts with tsremux and the file would play on my ps3 without problems and in full 5.1 surround and no quality loss. I was hoping to essentially do the same with this HD-PVR for channels I can't get OTA.

AFter receiving the HD-PVR I installed it without problems. Video and audio recorded and played back fine, and no problems recording. I tested recording from a DVHS tape of a ESPN-HD football game and from satellite. I ended up using the stereo rca cables for audio as I couldn't set my DVHS to output PCM via optical.

After about a week of fooling around, I have not gotten a playable file on the ps3. As others have mentioned part of the problem is that the ps3 will not play back an aac audio track in a m2t stream. Also, the video (without audio) would flicker every 30 seconds or so.

Anyway, here is what I have tried to do:

1. Record from DVHS using the default settings.

2. Edit commericals from the file using ts packet editor (h264cutter would crash once I hit the cut button).

3. Demux using tsmuxer and convert the audio to ac3.

4. Remux the file with the new ac3 audio track using tsmuxer and transcode to m2t.

I also tried converting to mp4 after step 2 with the hauppage mp4 converter software included, but it rejected the file stating that it was not a PVR recording. Since I really hate converting anyway, I wasn't too disappointed.

Anyway, I am resigned to wait until the release of the new drivers that will support ac3 5.1 audio recording from optical. This is what I really want to do anyway, so hopefully the driver update will solve the ps3 playback issues as well. I still don't know what to think about the flicker, but hopefully it will go away with the updated drivers. As I said, the recorded files played back fine on my pc.

[Ktulu_1]

Originally Posted by ak3883

FYI, I emailed tech support yesterday evening about 5.1 support and they sent me back this in reply:

From :
To :
Subject : RE: HD-PVR 5.1 audio support
Date : Fri, Jul 25, 2008 10:58 AM


Yeah we should be receiving the update sometime next week for us to try out
and see if its fully working.
Pedro Muniz
Technical Support
Hauppauge Headquarters
www.hauppauge.com


We'll see....

This is good but there might be another problem with playing back 5.1 audio.

I sent Arcsoft an email asking why I get stereo when I playback a mpg file with Dolby Digital on Arcsoft Total Media Theater.

Here's the response I got...

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for contacting ArcSoft.

After consulting with the Engineer, I want to inform you that Audio Effects (such as Dolby Digital 5.1, etc) are not supported for file playback, so that the program will only output 2 channels if you are playing a file, like .mpg files.

We hope this helps answer your question. Please feel free to contact us if there is any other question. Your information will be appreciated.

Thank you.

Regards,
ArcSoft Support

EDIT: Looks like this might not extend to .ts files or AVC. Remains to be seen I guess.

[ProAm500]

Originally Posted by openaddy

It's probably because you're using component. Your STB should output 4:3 as you expect over composite or s-video. The STB most likely outputs 720x480 for SD content over component and HDMI.

The HD-PVR will detect 640x480i if you use the composite or s-video input on the front and capture at that size.

I tried the HD-PVR with both composite (at 640x480i) and component (at 720x480p) on my Motorola STB, and to me the 480p result looks much better.

I just set Media Classic Player to 4:3 when playing back -- it would be nice if there's a shortcut key to toggle between 4:3 and 16:9 instead of having to hop through the menu, though.

I tried both already and it does the same thing....I also made sure the STB was set at 480i....

[kimifelipe]

Skylab,

Try converting to mp4 first using the bundled converter (Hauppauge's not Arcsoft's). Then edit the files. For some reason, you need the first frame of the capture to use the mp4 converter. There is no other way at this time afaik.

I'm using H264 cutter, after several attempts I finally got it working (you'll need to buy coreAVC Pro, $15), and I am just archiving the .TS fragments. They play so nicely in WMP with coreAVC. Its a shame theres no way to convert to other formats - I dont know enough about x264 - and I am quite sure this is not the place to learn - anyone know where would be a good place to learn how to convert to x264 .mkv or .avi?

Originally Posted by skylab

I received the HD-PVR about a week ago and thought I would share my experiences.

Previously I had been recording to my PC via and OTA capture card. I would edit out the commercials using hdtvtompeg then transcode to m2ts with tsremux and the file would play on my ps3 without problems and in full 5.1 surround and no quality loss. I was hoping to essentially do the same with this HD-PVR for channels I can't get OTA.

AFter receiving the HD-PVR I installed it without problems. Video and audio recorded and played back fine, and no problems recording. I tested recording from a DVHS tape of a ESPN-HD football game and from satellite. I ended up using the stereo rca cables for audio as I couldn't set my DVHS to output PCM via optical.

After about a week of fooling around, I have not gotten a playable file on the ps3. As others have mentioned part of the problem is that the ps3 will not play back an aac audio track in a m2t stream. Also, the video (without audio) would flicker every 30 seconds or so.

Anyway, here is what I have tried to do:

1. Record from DVHS using the default settings.

2. Edit commericals from the file using ts packet editor (h264cutter would crash once I hit the cut button).

3. Demux using tsmuxer and convert the audio to ac3.

4. Remux the file with the new ac3 audio track using tsmuxer and transcode to m2t.

I also tried converting to mp4 after step 2 with the hauppage mp4 converter software included, but it rejected the file stating that it was not a PVR recording. Since I really hate converting anyway, I wasn't too disappointed.

Anyway, I am resigned to wait until the release of the new drivers that will support ac3 5.1 audio recording from optical. This is what I really want to do anyway, so hopefully the driver update will solve the ps3 playback issues as well. I still don't know what to think about the flicker, but hopefully it will go away with the updated drivers. As I said, the recorded files played back fine on my pc.

[clemsonfn]

Originally Posted by kimifelipe

Skylab,

Try converting to mp4 first using the bundled converter (Hauppauge's not Arcsoft's). Then edit the files. For some reason, you need the first frame of the capture to use the mp4 converter. There is no other way at this time afaik.

I'm using H264 cutter, after several attempts I finally got it working (you'll need to buy coreAVC Pro, $15), and I am just archiving the .TS fragments. They play so nicely in WMP with coreAVC. Its a shame theres no way to convert to other formats - I dont know enough about x264 - and I am quite sure this is not the place to learn - anyone know where would be a good place to learn how to convert to x264 .mkv or .avi?

Is there any way to use H264 cutter to create fragments, and then rejoin them to a master .ts file (ie, taking commericials out of a program)?

[JJamez]

On the XBOX 360 front.. I finally figured out the key to getting FF / REW / Skip working is changing the GOP setting, using GraphEdit and ARogans (and the_tom's) capture software, as described in ARogans's blog.

The final problem has been audio sync - it always seems to be off slightly, often not enough to bother me, but sometimes more significantly.

I don't know that I have definitively determined if the sync problem is in the original HDPVR .ts file or whether its a result of demultiplexing, remultiplexing.. or editing in H264 cutter. I couldn't seem to get consistent playback of the ts or mp4's, meaning the sync can move around depending upon what is decoding the file for playback - it can be different with ffdshow, coreavc and the arcsoft codec. Very strange.

I finally tried ts (original and edited) in the ArcSoft player with hardware acceleration on and sync is much better. The ArcSoft player was giving me a BSOD which is why I didn't try it earlier, but reinstalling nvidia drivers fixed that.

I guess the bottom line is, while I had a blast messing with the files and getting them 'working' on the 360, the sync issue was the last straw, and I decided to invest in a Popcorn Hour.. Hopefully the waiting period isn't too long, I'm hoping for the middle of August. It will play ts files natively - no transcoding, demuxing, remuxing.. so no more of that hassle. Plus it supports 5.1, well, as soon as Hauppauge gets those drivers ready anyway.

I'm a little concerned the sync issues may still persist, but I'm going to give it a shot.. like I said, when I used the ArcSoft player, sync looked ok with ts files - straight out of the HDPVR, and those edited in H264ts Cutter. We shall see.

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by Ktulu_1

This is good but there might be another problem with playing back 5.1 audio... EDIT: Looks like this might not extend to .ts files or AVC. Remains to be seen I guess.

This does raise an interesting issue, but according to wikipedia, the TS container can include AC3 audio. Remember that the Transport Stream container was originally created for MPEG-2 video files, which I believe could also containe 5.1 AC3 audio.

It appears that the tech support reply is indicating that the arcsoft software will not be able to play back the 5.1 AC3 audio, but will only output in stereo, so this becomes a player issue.

I suspect that the PopcornHour will play back the 5.1 and in my case, since I am transcoding the .TS files for playback on my AppleTV, I should be able to maintain the 5.1 AC3 in either a M4V or MOV container.

Of course, the Blu-Ray authoring specification allows for 5.1 AC3 files as well, so those who burn them to DVDs or BR discs under these specifications should also get 5.1 playback.

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by kimifelipe

...Its a shame theres no way to convert to other formats - I dont know enough about x264 - and I am quite sure this is not the place to learn - anyone know where would be a good place to learn how to convert to x264 .mkv or .avi?

Have you tried ffmpeg? I had a link to downloading it for Windows earlier in this thread for other purposes, but it is a linux based transcoding engine that is multifacited. I use it in its Macintosh format: VisualHub and it will easily transcode progressive .TS H.264 files (720 or 480) to avi. I do not believe that it has mkv output capability yet, and it will not handle interlaced H.264 input. There are separate mkv tools that should do that job.

That being said, I don't recommend the AVI container anyway. It is way too outdated and was never developed by microsoft for the purposes that it is being used for today. On the other hand, mkv is more modern, flexible and with some limitations is probably the way to go. I have no experience in transcoding to mkv, as I play my files on the AppleTV, so I transcode to MP4 and its variants (M4V and MOV).

Do some research and report back if you have any success.

[karpodiem]

Just thought I'd throw out there that 720p resolution on an Apple TV is capped at 24fps.

Unless I'm wrong, at which point I believe MichaelLAX will correct me

[ncinsguy]

i think i've figured out the way i'm gonna use mine:

1. my sat dvr and hd-pvr are in my bedroom we don't watch tv much in there.
2. i record the shows to my dvr 1st then off-load to my pc also in the bedroom.
3. make regular dvds of some shows i may want to view at my office or in rooms with no pc present.
4. i transfer the .ts files to my networked external Hard drive.
5. i can then view the files on any pc on my network with TME, mostly with my HP slimline 2.2 dual core with a nvidia 8500 gt card in it connected to my 50" plasma or even via the internet since my ext hd is accessible over the internet (haven't tried this yet).

This setup is working for me so far...hd files look a little better if i put them to disk and play with my blu-ray player but the difference is barely noticeable...i'm not sure if it's because bd is using HDMI and pc RGB or because my TV won't let me adjust all the picture settings in PC mode. i'm very happy with the device other than some occaisonal problems making multi-file disks.

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by karpodiem

Just thought I'd throw out there that 720p resolution on an Apple TV is capped at 24fps.

Unless I'm wrong, at which point I believe MichaelLAX will correct me

You are correct, in that iTunes will not sync 720p files at 29.97/30fps at 5Mbps. Above 25fps, the ATV's stated maximum is 960x540.

In my experiments however on my Upgraded AppleTV, I am able to move 720p30 files at 8 or 9 Mbps over to my AppleTV through AFP and they are easily watchable using ATVFiles (and perhaps Perian, which is also installed on my ATV, but I do not believe that Perian is needed for these files).

My copy of Super Bowl XLII is 720p30 with AC3 audio which plays on my ATV, and you can download a sample in the VisualHub folder of the HD-PVR folder of my Public Folder of my iDisk:

http://idisk.mac.com/michaellax-public

[karpodiem]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

You are correct, in that iTunes will not sync 720p files at 29.97/30fps at 5Mbps. Above 25fps, the ATV's stated maximum is 960x540.

In my experiments however on my Upgraded AppleTV, I am able to move 720p30 files at 8 or 9 Mbps over to my AppleTV through AFP and they are easily watchable using ATVFiles (and perhaps Perian, which is also installed on my ATV, but I do not believe that Perian is needed for these files).

My copy of Super Bowl XLII is 720p30 with AC3 audio which plays on my ATV, and you can download a sample in the VisualHub folder of the HD-PVR folder of my Public Folder of my iDisk:

http://idisk.mac.com/michaellax-public

Doesn't play on my ATV

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by karpodiem

Doesn't play on my ATV

Be more specific: doesn't play or won't sync over...?

[artbytes]

We just got our new PVR and are trying to set it up. We're having trouble with the audio. When we used the digital audio cable, we didn't get any sound at all. With the analog cables, we are getting the sound, but we also have clicking added to the sound. Has anyone else had this problem or know what might be causing it. TIA.

[mindbender9]

Originally Posted by clemsonfn

Is there any way to use H264 cutter to create fragments, and then rejoin them to a master .ts file (ie, taking commericials out of a program)?

You can do the following using H264Cutter:

1. cut out sections of your clip(s)
2. save them as standalone files
3. open the "master" .ts file
4. "cut" the entire master .ts file
5. add each of the previous standalone files then cut the entire clip
6. then save as a concatenated "master" .ts file.

BUT! I have run into problems adding new files to the clip where H264Cutter will occasionally throw an error msg stating that "This TS file does not have the same content as the previous TS file." And that can happen even though the files are from the same original feed.

I have had some successes and some failures compiling everything into a single, commercial-free .ts file. Can someone help with this error though?

[mindbender9]

Originally Posted by artbytes

We just got our new PVR and are trying to set it up. We're having trouble with the audio. When we used the digital audio cable, we didn't get any sound at all. With the analog cables, we are getting the sound, but we also have clicking added to the sound. Has anyone else had this problem or know what might be causing it. TIA.

On your STB, switch the audio output to "Other" or "LPCM" and see if that works. This is while using the digital optical cables.

[rebkell]

Originally Posted by mindbender9

You can do the following using H264Cutter:

1. cut out sections of your clip(s)
2. save them as standalone files
3. open the "master" .ts file
4. "cut" the entire master .ts file
5. add each of the previous standalone files then cut the entire clip
6. then save as a concatenated "master" .ts file.

BUT! I have run into problems adding new files to the clip where H264Cutter will occasionally throw an error msg stating that "This TS file does not have the same content as the previous TS file." And that can happen even though the files are from the same original feed.

I have had some successes and some failures compiling everything into a single, commercial-free .ts file. Can someone help with this error though?

Are we discussing h264ts_cutter? If so, you click Start and End and then Add, this put a section of the ts file you want to save in a list, do it again and again until you have what you want. Then save the project with all the cuts in it, then click on Batch -> Add Project click on the *.hcp file you just created, then it will prompt you for the file name (ts file) to save it as give it a name, then click on Run Batch and it will put all the pieces together in file name you gave it to save as.

That's the way I've been doing it.

Edit: Sorry, I misread and didn't realize you were joining multiple files.

[mullet34]

Does anyone else have problems with h264 Cutter? I've tried it on 3 different machines with no luck. It loads the .TS file without error but I have no video. Hitting play does nothing. It is launching ffdshow and haali in the taskbar, but I am unable to view anything.

[leukoplast]

Well, after messing around with the HD PVR for some hours now, I have found out its pretty much useless for me. My goal was to be able to easily record my PS3 gameplay in HD. Now while this can do that, the problem lies with the audio.

See I dont want to have to do ANY extra special settings to use this. I want to be able to simply plug it in, and record my gameplay whenever I feel like it without changing anything. But instead, since the audio cant support jack crap, in order to even get audio I have to go through my PS3 settings and de-select all my audio options, leaving only 2.1. This is utterly unacceptable seeing as my receiver is a HDMI one, fully audio compatible with 7.1 lossless DTSMA/Dolby Digital HD playback etc etc. So now I have to limit my audio to crap in order to get anything off the recorder. This = inconvenient, and does me absolutely no good whatsoever.

You would think the Happauge people could at least design a audio downscaler or something, so I could AT LEAST get stereo on the recordings without having to manually change my audio setup. And I know 5.1 support is coming, but what good does that do me when I am running 7.1 through my HDMI? (which is the audio I will be using) I would then have to deselect all 7.1 audio options in order to record anything with sound.

Without some kind of audio scaler, this product is absolutely useless for me. I am very disappointed. I am going to check out the Popcorn Hour thing and possibly return the HD PVR.

Also the video quality isnt the best looking, although I think I can blame the HDMI -> component converter for this. Oh and there is a pretty bad overscan, with no way I can see to fix it.

[artbytes]

"On your STB, switch the audio output to "Other" or "LPCM" and see if that works. This is while using the digital optical cables."

Thanks. That seemed to work. There is still a problem with our digital, but at least the analog is working well. We think that the problem with our digital sound may be that the connector on the back of the STB is broken. My helper accidentally broke the little flap off.

[ncinsguy]

Originally Posted by mindbender9

You can do the following using H264Cutter:

1. cut out sections of your clip(s)
2. save them as standalone files
3. open the "master" .ts file
4. "cut" the entire master .ts file
5. add each of the previous standalone files then cut the entire clip
6. then save as a concatenated "master" .ts file.

BUT! I have run into problems adding new files to the clip where H264Cutter will occasionally throw an error msg stating that "This TS file does not have the same content as the previous TS file." And that can happen even though the files are from the same original feed.

I have had some successes and some failures compiling everything into a single, commercial-free .ts file. Can someone help with this error though?

once you make changes to the files have u been able to burn them to disk?

[ender868]

Originally Posted by ProAm500

I have a 27inch SD 4:3 TV....I have a SA 4250hdc STB set at 480p hooked up via component....the display setting is set at standard 4:3....is it normal for the hdpvr to force 16:9 widscreen on everything it records? I have had this problem in both the arcsoft and in Sage TV...is there something I'm missing?

Just a question? Are you using the 480p wide mode, or just 480p? The reson I ask is if I remember correctly the SA boxes will add pillar boxes on the 480p (Wide)

As I said just a thought.

[mindbender9]

Originally Posted by ncinsguy

once you make changes to the files have u been able to burn them to disk?

If you mean DVD, then yes. I have not burned it to my hard drive yet, nor streamed it to my PS3.

The DVD is viewable on a standard DVD player along with my PS3.

[mindbender9]

Originally Posted by mullet34

Does anyone else have problems with h264 Cutter? I've tried it on 3 different machines with no luck. It loads the .TS file without error but I have no video. Hitting play does nothing. It is launching ffdshow and haali in the taskbar, but I am unable to view anything.

I had the same exact problem with no video but I fixed it by reinstalling the latest version of FFDShow.

[RAVEN56706]

now i wont do any recording until they provide the firmware for the 5.1 sound... any word when this will be done

[d60pdp]

Originally Posted by ncinsguy

once you make changes to the files have u been able to burn them to disk?

No problem at all in editing HD PVR .ts files with H264Cutter. I can burn the modified .ts files (using H264Cutter) on DVD playing as BD in BD player.

[skylab]

Originally Posted by d60pdp

No problem at all in editing HD PVR .ts files with H264Cutter. I can burn the modified .ts files (using H264Cutter) on DVD playing as BD in BD player.

Would you mind sharing what steps you take after you cut the file but before you burn to DVD? Are there some BD players that will play h264 ts files with aac sound?

[d60pdp]

Originally Posted by skylab

Would you mind sharing what steps you take after you cut the file but before you burn to DVD? Are there some BD players that will play h264 ts files with aac sound?

Actually nothing specific. Just burn the resulted .ts using TME Create AVCHD on a DVD+R. Play the burned DVD in my LG combo HD DVD/BD player using the included PDVD. It appears as a BD.

[ncinsguy]

Originally Posted by mindbender9

If you mean DVD, then yes. I have not burned it to my hard drive yet, nor streamed it to my PS3.

The DVD is viewable on a standard DVD player along with my PS3.

Originally Posted by d60pdp

No problem at all in editing HD PVR .ts files with H264Cutter. I can burn the modified .ts files (using H264Cutter) on DVD playing as BD in BD player.

Originally Posted by skylab

Would you mind sharing what steps you take after you cut the file but before you burn to DVD? Are there some BD players that will play h264 ts files with aac sound?

well i had a movie that ended up to be 8.67 gb but i realized there was 20mins of another program after the movie ended so i cut it off. file plays with TME fine but when i burn to DVD not AVCHD it gets stuck at 20% everytime. i haven't tried burning to AVCHD since it was recorded in SD anyway. i'll try on another machine to see if i get the same i was just wonder since i thought i read here before someone having problems with cut files.

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by karpodiem

Doesn't play on my ATV

Have you tried a 540p30 sample to see how good that looks on your ATV?

Try the sample: Lindsey.540p.mp4 in the Lindsay Buckingham folder of my iDisk. Since it was made from the HD-PVR it is not 5.1, but the stereo sample decodes to 5.1 nicely if you have Dolby Pro Logic II decoding on your home theater.

Here's an interesting thought: Isn't PAL 25 fps? So in theory you could transcode a PAL copy of the Super Bowl to 720p25 and it should sync and play on the AppleTV...